irclog2html for #gllug on 20031028

04:01.21*** join/#gllug Clyphox (~clyphox@82-35-127-97.cable.ubr01.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk)
04:02.47Clyphox"how are you gentlemen"
07:14.27eye69Morning
07:50.01Clyphoxmorning
07:50.48eye69*yawn*
07:50.54eye69It looks cold outside :/
07:53.04Clyphoxit is indeed
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10:11.18murblemoin
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10:56.11TarragonAfter 187 days uptime I finally melted a PSU. Is there a simple formula of working out the Wattage needed for a box. The problem is usually running three CD drives and a couple of HDs?
11:04.01murbleTarragon: had the fan in the PSU died frist?
11:04.07murbles/frist/first/
11:04.21murbleTarragon: there was an article on tomshardware about that.
11:04.40murbleand about how lots of cheap PSUs are not very good to the point of lying about their capabilities.
11:12.42TarragonYes the fan died and within 30s the machine shut down. I took out the PSU and it was too hot to touch
11:14.34TarragonI can only assume I am very dusty as this is the third PSU that I have killed. The dust is visible on the fan blades although admittedly not that much.
11:21.37*** join/#gllug Leeds (~rc112576@beryllium.eu.sun.com)
11:26.26murbledid the fan seize?
11:36.34zacharyScott Meuller's "Ugrading and Repairing PC's" has some factors to consider and  metrics used.
12:21.22*** join/#gllug Clyphox (~clyphox@82-35-127-97.cable.ubr01.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk)
12:39.45*** join/#gllug formi (~formi@82-35-34-114.cable.ubr01.camd.blueyonder.co.uk)
12:40.06formihi!
12:41.01formiI've got a tricky question
12:41.26nasratformi: what have you got in your pockets?
12:41.58formiI've got a machine doing nat, could be possible to tunnel through ssh/ssl all connections from the clients to a specific ip and port?
12:43.06nasratformi: ssh does support socks proxy tunnel - but you'd need a socks proxy
12:43.51Leedsopenssh 3+ (I think) has a built-in socks server for tunnelling - works pretty well
12:43.59formiim thinking of pop3, and eventually ftp, even though ftp seems trickier
12:44.06nasratLeeds: you using ssh -D
12:44.23Leedsnasrat: not right now, but yes, that's what I meant
12:45.36Leedsformi: pop tunnelled over ssh should be trivial... ftp is harder
12:47.12formii mean without client configuration
12:48.30Leedswell you'd have to configure the tunnel somewhere
12:48.31nasratformi: you could do a redirect to your socks server
12:49.12formithe tricky bit I suppose is that I ONLY want connections to 1 ip being tunneled
12:50.06nasratformi: mark the packets based on dst and redirect based on the mark
12:50.48nasratthough it's been a while since I had to use iptables/iproute2 in anger
12:52.38Leedsadd a static route?
12:52.58formii avoid writing rules by hand, using arno's firewall at the moment
12:54.41formi# TCP/UDP form : "{SRCIP1,SRCIP2,...:}PORT1,PORT2-PORT3,...>DESTIP1{:port} {SRCIP3,...:}PORT3,...>DESTIP2:port}"
12:55.45murbleformi: how do you specify things like I want that ot have been an established connection and i want traffic to enter via ep2 and exif via fxp0 ?
12:56.40formino bloody idea
12:58.48formiappart, I do not have 2 external nics
13:19.16JDhi
13:49.46gregjhi
13:53.25formihi
13:53.46forminow that is what I call "inventiveness"
14:03.25Leedshi
14:03.59*** join/#gllug Clyphox (~clyphox@82-35-127-97.cable.ubr01.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk)
14:04.17ClyphoxHola
14:05.21formiboas
14:06.31Clyphoxhowzit
14:07.40formichevere?
15:03.09*** join/#gllug Clyphox (~clyphox@82-35-127-97.cable.ubr01.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk)
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15:37.14ClyphoxYay netsplit
15:37.18formiECN, is it worth enabling?
15:38.20Clyphoxnot imo
15:39.04formii suppose it needs to enabled down the network to be of any use
15:40.34Clyphoxyup from what I have seen all it does is confuse poor debian users
15:41.11LeedsClyphox: and that's not a hard thing to do
15:41.12formiwho cares about di-bian users?
15:41.59formiprobably because they spend too long flamming away and having pointless discussions
15:42.20ClyphoxI'll refrain from commenting
15:48.30murbleClyphox: what does debian have to do with ECN?
15:49.16JDECN is disabled by default on recent kernels aiui
15:49.35JDparguild020 david% cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_ecn
15:49.36JD0
15:51.01murbleed /etc/sysctl.conf
16:07.51JDgrrrr
16:07.53JD@hourly         root    /etc/init.d/fetchmail restart
16:08.54Clyphoxmurble: nothing. its just that I've had to help alot of debian users who can't see websites cause for some reason debian had ECN enabled
16:10.37JDnope isn;t enabled on woody or sid
16:10.56JDI can check on sarge if you want
16:21.28Leedswel...
16:21.38Leedsit doesn't say Microsoft, but maybe we're having an effect...
16:21.40Leedshttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3220887.stm
17:47.38JDI love you (Im not a virus!)
18:05.26*** part/#gllug formi (~formi@82-35-34-114.cable.ubr01.camd.blueyonder.co.uk)
18:20.24Leedslots of httpd in D state :-(  started a reboot, realised tech support at hosting center had gone home for the day and if it didn't come up it would be stuck until the morning, cancelled the reboot and that seems to have cleared it...
18:23.23Clyphoxknow any nice php gallery apps?
18:24.17Clyphoxtheres too damn many
18:26.49Xiaoqihihi
18:38.05Leedsgallery? :-)
18:39.34ClyphoxLeeds: cheeky monkey
18:39.50Leedsno, no
18:39.56Leedsthere is one called gallery which I've used
18:40.03ClyphoxI know
18:40.13ClyphoxI used to work with it in one of my jobs
18:42.27ClyphoxLeeds: could you do me a quick favour?
18:42.33Leedsprobably not....
18:42.48Clyphoxlol
18:42.56ClyphoxI just need someone test my FTP server? Just need to be sure
18:49.15Leedsgo on then, quickly
18:49.53Clyphoxnm
18:50.15gregjanyone setup digest auth with apache here ?
18:50.20gregji got few problems
18:50.48Clyphoxnot me sorry.
18:51.37Leedsno idea
18:55.35gregjoh
18:55.35gregjmy mistake
18:55.35gregji told him to load mod_digest instead of mod_auth_digest ;]
19:00.37*** join/#gllug pawelsz (pawelsz@yg186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl)
19:00.53pawelszgregj: :-)
19:01.04Leedsah! the Poles are coming!
19:01.14gregj:]
19:01.26gregjhe is just my friend
19:01.39pawelszLeeds: yeah, that's right, but only one. :-)
19:01.40gregjLeeds: no worries, you will expierence more after 1st of may 2004;]
19:01.49gregjPiLug
19:02.03gregj(poles In London, linux user group)
19:02.35ClyphoxI might go along to have a look heh
19:02.53pawelsz:-S
19:03.35gregjpawelsz: irssi can held two server connections at the same time, you don't have to drop sesion on ircnet ;]
19:03.50gregjs/held/hold/
19:04.21pawelszgregj: i know, but I want to lose connection to ircnet, I need more time now, I don't want to speak with friends now. :-)
19:04.46ClyphoxHey WOW!! I just got this email!! it sais if I give them $300 I can copy a DVD onto a standard CD!!!!!
19:04.52JDgregj: I am currently attached to 6 servers
19:05.03JDClyphox: where where sign me up
19:05.22eye69Clyphox: Whoa! Give me!
19:05.25eye69Evening :)
19:05.30Clyphoxevenin :-)
19:05.31pawelszClyphox: layer! ;-)
19:05.37ClyphoxLeeds: mencoder you mean?
19:05.48LeedsClyphox: same thing :-)
19:06.01eye69pawelsz: layer?
19:06.21Leedsliar?
19:06.22Clyphoxmencoder has only once let me down.. :-)
19:06.25gregjJD: ?
19:06.33eye69Leeds: Yes, I think that's what he meant.
19:06.34gregjJD: phisicaly ? :>
19:07.06gregjJD: or is it just addiction
19:07.09pawelszeye69: sorry, I tkink about lair, my english. ugh.
19:07.34eye69Yup, ugh.
19:07.35JDgregj: pretty much addiction
19:07.41gregj;]
19:10.48pawelszeye69: nobody perfect, I don't have much experience with speaking, but I still work to correct this.
19:11.19eye69pawelsz: I'm sorry if I offended you.
19:11.49eye69I to have a lot to learn about english.
19:11.51eye69Clyphox: Bah.
19:11.55eye69too
19:11.55JDeye69: I tried that with gregj the other day
19:12.03Clyphoxdon't we all
19:12.15pawelszeye69: no, u dont. :-)
19:12.21ClyphoxI think its been said that English is the easiest language to learn but the hardest to master
19:12.37JDmuch like C++
19:12.50eye69pawelsz: Yes, I do. I'm not a native english speaker.
19:13.52eye69Haven't been in the UK for that long either...justabout 18 months.
19:14.37gregjJD: where do you have those servers ? inhouse  ?
19:14.41eye69Got an email about a job as an Enterprise Network Manager at F5 Networks today.
19:15.40pawelszgregj: i can sent sth for u from /dev/urandom. :-p
19:30.03JDgregj: nope
19:30.13JDgregj: all on eht internet
19:34.07Leedspawelsz: I should say that I knew what you meant, and it took me 3 tries to spell liar :-)
19:34.40pawelszLeeds: :-)
19:37.51pawelszbrrr, really cold. somebody want hot coffee? :-)
19:38.35gregjeye69: it is quite late for pub now
19:38.36Clyphoxcould I have some hot chocolate?
19:38.53eye69No, I want cold beer
19:39.15Clyphoxwater would be better.. last drink I had was on the 27th
19:39.16eye69gregj: I'm not talking about London pub
19:39.46gregjJD: and what about them ? are you using them in debian project, or just for yourself ?
19:41.07JDgregj: one is OPN, one is OFTC, 2 are in cam.ac.uk, one is a colo in london and I don't know where the other one is
19:42.57JDgregj: I think you are confused
19:43.06JDgregj: I have irssi connected to 6 servers
19:43.10gregjoh
19:43.10gregj;]
19:43.29gregjthan indeed, i was confused
19:44.04JD:)
19:46.37gregjanyone knows how can i change password for account in postgresql ?
19:49.39gregjdebian stable seems to have broken postgres instalation and init.d script
19:49.51gregji have to correct things manualy
19:52.51JDI never understood postgresql
19:54.57gregji do, and i like it
19:56.03gregjthus it is quite complicated
19:56.08gregjand mysql is much easier
19:56.36gregjbut you have to bear in mind that postgres was written some years ago :-)
20:17.48*** join/#gllug irc (~morsing@morsing.plus.com)
20:18.36gregjhenrik :]
20:18.49ircHi Greg :)
20:18.56WethrinBoom
20:19.09ircI'll post the pictures soon, just give me a minute.
20:20.06gregjfsck
20:20.24gregjeven in debian unstable, libpqxx is 1.5, newest one is 1.9.1
20:24.57irc?
20:25.10ircZach?
20:29.36*** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@212.158.207.148)
20:29.58gregjw
20:29.59gregjb
20:30.20Leedst
20:30.20Leedsn
20:30.21Leedsx
20:30.24gregjn
20:30.24gregjp
20:30.25gregj;]
20:33.43ircj?
20:34.30gregjn
20:34.31gregjo
20:34.31gregjt
20:34.31gregjh
20:34.32gregji
20:34.34gregjn
20:34.37gregjg
20:38.33WethrinHeh
20:38.47gregjy
20:38.47gregjes
20:38.48gregj?
20:39.21ircc
20:39.21ircl
20:39.22irce
20:39.22irca
20:39.23ircr
20:39.23ircs
20:39.24ircc
20:39.25ircr
20:39.27irce
20:39.31ircn
20:39.33irc!
20:40.41gregjo
20:40.41gregjk
20:40.41gregji
20:40.43gregj<PROTECTED>
20:40.44gregjd
20:40.46gregjo
20:40.48gregjk
20:40.51gregji
20:40.53gregj:
20:40.56gregj)
20:41.01*** mode/#gllug [+o Wethrin] by ChanServ
20:41.17WethrinThank you, whoever did that :)
20:41.23JD:)
20:41.28*** mode/#gllug [-o Wethrin] by ChanServ
20:41.28WethrinYes, you.
20:41.35WethrinBah :)
20:41.40gregjtrying to scare some ?
20:41.48WethrinErr....no.
20:42.08JDChanserv is cool
20:42.16WethrinYes
20:42.25zacharyhey irc: howz it?
20:42.35JDWethrin: it worked though
20:42.42ircZach! Are the kids behaving?
20:42.54WethrinYes.
20:43.41zacharyWell I just gave my daughter a piece of chocolate cake about 30 minutes ago. Now I'm trying to keep her from bouncing off of the walls.
20:43.53irc:-D
20:44.01WethrinGet a room with padded walls. They sound like fun
20:44.46zacharyShe is. My son is the colic king, and can have cring spells for over an hour.
20:45.02zacharyWhich is testing my sanity
20:45.40ircHow old are they?
20:46.30zacharydaughter year and a half, son four weeks this thursday.
20:46.43WethrinMmm....Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto #1
20:46.56Wethrin"...sublime"
20:47.38ircZach, have you seen the Simpsons episode where Homer put springs on Maggie and bounces her :-)
20:48.07zacharyyea, lol
20:52.16ircDan, what are you up to other than a relaxing music session?
20:53.17WethrinUmm.....was going to write some Java things. I've already pencilled them down, so should be quick to write into emacs
20:53.50ircSome small utilities?
20:54.08WethrinNah. Silly coding exercises for Uni
20:54.20WethrinIn fact, I need to make some modifications to my Complex numbers classes
20:55.11ircWhich book do you use there?
20:56.44WethrinWinder & Roberts
20:57.00murbleI have a spare copy of that.
20:57.09murblea valuable first edition at that.
20:57.35zacharymurble: I second the motion.
20:57.45ircHmm... Why am I called irc?
20:57.52WethrinDunno
20:57.58ircHow do I change it?
20:58.24Wethrin<PROTECTED>
21:00.45morsingI have also wondered where it gets my (incorrect) email address from
21:02.15WethrinIt's your ident and hostmask, not your email
21:02.50morsingOk
21:05.09morsingLook at this:
21:05.16morsing<PROTECTED>
21:05.29morsingA pity I'm moving soon :-)
21:05.31WethrinWhat does the protected keyword mean in a Java method declaration?
21:05.38Wethrin<PROTECTED>
21:05.40Wethrin*thhpt*
21:06.37morsingAny higher?
21:06.43ClyphoxWethrin: it means that the method cant be overidden by a subclass that extends it
21:07.12WethrinAh. Not overridden.
21:07.17WethrinIt means that it's inherited
21:07.44Leeds<PROTECTED>
21:08.09Wethrinrsh butter.j-colo.net reboot
21:08.16Leedsthat's not butter
21:08.25WethrinI can't believe it's not
21:08.31ClyphoxWethrin: it can be inherited, just not changed
21:08.32Leedsand where the fsck do you know butter from? :-)
21:08.43WethrinYour hostmask.
21:08.47Wethrin(sometimes)
21:08.52Leedsah, sometimes, yes
21:09.05Leeds<PROTECTED>
21:09.07Leedsis butter
21:09.16WethrinIs beryllium.eu.sun.com your machine, or a firewall?
21:09.22Leedsproxy
21:09.25WethrinAh.
21:09.45WethrinClyphox: Yah. Rather than private, which is not inheritable
21:09.58Clyphox*nod*
21:13.59morsingDan, is it your own computer? (The 278 days one)
21:15.32*** join/#gllug DigitalOctopus (~tink044@82-35-26-103.cable.ubr04.hari.blueyonder.co.uk)
21:15.44DigitalOctopusEvenin all
21:15.47Clyphoxre
21:16.08morsingEvening
21:16.19Leedshey octi
21:16.21DigitalOctopuscould anyone tell me how to search the gllug archives using google...
21:16.26DigitalOctopuslo
21:16.44LeedsI'd just search with the word gllug in the search - usually does the job
21:16.54DigitalOctopusohh... :-)
21:17.01Wethrinmorsing: A colo
21:17.14Wethrin(well, rented)
21:17.29WethrinClyphox: the method is changeable
21:17.54Wethrinprotected means that it /needs/ to be overridden
21:19.20ClyphoxWethrin: oh yeah its final that makes it unchangable
21:21.05DigitalOctopusHopefully i have enough tokens to ask another question... Has anyone had any xp with or know of any transaction/shopping cart/take payment type software/service...?
21:22.00LeedsI ported someone's/wrote my own code to deal with payments against worldpay
21:22.26DigitalOctopusbut do have have a high charge per transaction...?
21:23.02Leedsnot sure - I just work with the code, not the financial side of things
21:23.18DigitalOctopusI knew of worldpay and paypal, but i thought they were supposed to be a bit lame, also it requires the customer to have an account...
21:23.38DigitalOctopusI was looking for something that maybe could use c-cards..
21:23.57Leedsnah, we do credit card handling with worldpay
21:24.06DigitalOctopusOhh rite...
21:24.10Leedsand a different part of the charity does it with paypal, AFAIK
21:24.35DigitalOctopusYeah but it does require the customer to have an account with either of them doesnt it  ?
21:24.43Leedsnoope
21:24.56Leedswell... certainly not worldpay, and I don't think for paypal either
21:25.00DigitalOctopusahh.... i thought it required it.. i've only used them with ebay
21:25.38WethrinNope, sorry
21:25.41DigitalOctopusHmm might have to have a bigger look at them..
21:25.56WethrinUrgh. That was about 30s delay
21:26.04DigitalOctopuslol
21:27.09DigitalOctopusWell thanks for the input Leeds...
21:27.21Leedsno problem
21:27.39Leedswe've handled over 500 'orders' via worldpay this summer (which is a lot for us)
21:28.42DigitalOctopuswow... nice...
21:30.11Leedsslightly over 69000 pounds
21:30.43Leedswhoa
21:30.48DigitalOctopusWhich is nice.. :-)  i wonder how much ppal charged you for that
21:31.13Leedsthat was worldpay, not paypal
21:32.18DigitalOctopusok...
21:36.51DigitalOctopusPay Pal rate is 3.4% + £0.20 GBP
21:47.23morsingMagnus, how did you get an IPv6 address in there?
21:53.15Leedsmorsing: he comes from an IPV6 host?
21:54.04murblepaypal are evil for creditcard payments
21:54.16murbleand currancy transfers
21:54.37morsingI didn't think IPv6 addresses could be routed or allocated on the Internet yet?
21:54.44LeedsI really can't comment on the financial side of things, but I've no complaint against worldpay
21:54.48Leedsmorsing: sure they can
21:55.08morsingSo I just need my ISP to give me one?
21:55.09murblemorsing: there is native peering of IPv6 at many exchanges
21:55.35murblemorsing: you can use 6to4 without any setup wiht a 3rd party and it will just work.
21:55.52murbleotherwise you can get an ipv6 tunnel.
21:56.19morsingDo I need to involve my ISP in any of this?
21:56.32morsingAnd how will outsiders use it?
21:56.46murblemorsing: no nought to do with your isp
21:56.59murblethey could provide a 6to4 multicast relay which would be cool though.
21:59.28morsingBut how do I pick an address? And what about my DNS records?
22:07.56murblemorsing: the dns is based on your ipv4 address
22:08.03murbles/dns/ipv6 addresses/
22:09.20morsingBut since people use DNS to look up my host they'll use my IPv4 anywaay so there isn't really much point.
22:09.32murblee.g. 2002:myipv4addres:80 bits of mine
22:09.51murblemorsing: but if you have your own zone that you control you can point somthing else at that.
22:13.21murbleWethrin: have you done the operator overloading thing?
22:31.41morsingGreg, you've got mail!
22:37.25Wethrinmurble: Erm. Not for +,-,*,/
22:37.33murbleoh..
22:37.37WethrinShould I?
22:41.35WethrinHow do you overload a binary operator?
22:41.49Leedsby giving it three operands?
22:41.59WethrinHar :)
22:43.29Leedsavailable soon - my new book!
22:43.35LeedsBad Geek Jokes Volume III
22:47.43Wethrin:)
22:50.15stephenheh
22:53.11Wethrinmurble: Java does not let you overload operators with new meaning, e.g. to define + for the Complex class.
22:54.42morsingG'nite all
22:57.38Leedswell Java sucks then doesn't it?
22:57.56WethrinYes, Mr. Sun person.
22:58.56LeedsI can live with that
22:58.57WethrinI'm not that bothered about the lack of operator overloading
22:59.06Wethrinthere's not that much wrong with saying z.add(complex)
22:59.25Leedsbut you should be *able* to say z + complex
22:59.48WethrinComplain to the designers of the language, then :)
23:11.23Leedsg'night

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