| 00:48.21 | new2unix | anybody up? |
| 00:49.54 | Clyphox | I |
| 00:49.57 | Clyphox | and down |
| 00:52.04 | new2unix | i accidently did a "sudo chmod -o ./*" from the root directory. |
| 00:52.17 | new2unix | need help. |
| 00:54.18 | new2unix | bummer. cant even login remotely anymore. Is anybody up at all? |
| 00:54.26 | murble | I am. |
| 00:54.26 | ar | what errors you getting? |
| 00:54.29 | murble | are you still logged in? |
| 00:54.48 | new2unix | i am. but its refusing new logins. |
| 00:54.58 | murble | what did you actually type? |
| 00:55.07 | new2unix | new2unix@grace:/$ cd |
| 00:55.07 | new2unix | -bash: cd: /home/new2unix: Permission denied |
| 00:55.07 | new2unix | new2unix@grace:/$ |
| 00:57.09 | new2unix | oh. and i cant login as root cos i've disabled that. |
| 00:57.27 | murble | not even on a vga console? |
| 00:58.16 | ar | so does sudo still work for you? |
| 00:58.19 | new2unix | well, i guess a console login would be fine but... that involes locating the bits. |
| 00:58.57 | new2unix | new2unix@grace:/$ sudo cd ~/ |
| 00:58.58 | new2unix | -bash: /usr/bin/sudo: Permission denied |
| 00:58.58 | new2unix | new2unix@grace:/$ |
| 01:00.20 | murble | new2unix: what programs are running? |
| 01:01.09 | new2unix | ssh and apache. spent the best part of a whole day setting Grace up to my liking and now see what ive gone and done. lol |
| 01:01.54 | ar | you're probably going to have to log in as root |
| 01:02.33 | new2unix | how can i revoke that last command, assuming i'm able to login via console? |
| 01:02.52 | murble | new2unix: you should be able to exec stuff via /proc |
| 01:03.18 | murble | what happens if you do /proc/$$/exe -help |
| 01:03.41 | murble | do you have any sudoed proccess running? |
| 01:04.03 | new2unix | ok. locating a keyboard and monitor. brb |
| 01:08.29 | new2unix | murble, no sudoed processes running. ive logged in as root via console |
| 01:09.36 | murble | oh you can still login? |
| 01:09.42 | murble | do things like ls work? |
| 01:10.09 | new2unix | yep. everything is accessable as root. |
| 01:10.43 | new2unix | as its only the / that was affected. couldnt i simply change each permission back using a duplicate box i have here? |
| 01:11.20 | new2unix | the permisison under / all seem ok. phew! |
| 01:11.43 | murble | find . -type d -maxdepth 1 -print0 | xargs -0 chmod 755 |
| 01:13.35 | new2unix | murble, you coming round on Saturday? :D |
| 01:13.53 | murble | new2unix: probably yeah. |
| 01:14.24 | new2unix | cool. your first barrel's on me. |
| 01:14.45 | new2unix | s/barrel/ok, maybe a pint or two. |
| 01:14.54 | new2unix | thanks guys. |
| 01:16.16 | new2unix | thanks murble |
| 01:17.50 | *** join/#gllug formi (~formi@82-35-34-114.cable.ubr01.camd.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 01:18.09 | formi | hei |
| 01:18.26 | new2unix | hi formi :) |
| 01:18.37 | formi | Im watching 10 Best Sci-Fi shows, great!! |
| 01:18.51 | formi | i finally got the joke about the 42 |
| 01:20.23 | formi | how are you new2unix? |
| 01:20.51 | new2unix | just escaped a near fatality. |
| 01:21.09 | formi | me on saturday |
| 01:21.26 | formi | not in public though |
| 01:21.31 | new2unix | ok. its wasnt that bad. well it was that bad, but not a life death issue. just a real pain in the arse issue :) |
| 01:22.21 | new2unix | <new2unix> i accidently did a "sudo chmod -o ./*" from the root directory. |
| 01:22.21 | new2unix | <new2unix> need help. |
| 01:22.37 | new2unix | that was my original cry. Its been solved now :) |
| 01:22.50 | formi | private |
| 01:31.04 | new2unix | i've over the years mnage to convert all my windows friends and family to use yahoo. |
| 01:31.16 | new2unix | chaninging them to jabber would be a pain. |
| 01:31.47 | new2unix | Oops! |
| 01:31.49 | new2unix | bummer |
| 01:32.00 | formi | it supports the yahoo protocol |
| 01:41.40 | formi | is it me or nasrat is always going to sleep/sleeping? |
| 02:23.32 | *** part/#gllug formi (~formi@82-35-34-114.cable.ubr01.camd.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 03:40.35 | *** join/#gllug Jenson|A1ay (~jenson@64.246.28.105) |
| 03:40.55 | *** join/#gllug Wethrin_ (~ecoli@64.246.28.105) |
| 04:30.07 | new2unix | ping |
| 04:58.40 | Leeds | pong |
| 06:31.48 | Tarragon | Moin |
| 06:32.33 | Clyphox | Hopla |
| 06:33.18 | new2unix | ping |
| 07:43.37 | *** join/#gllug zachary (~zachary@host81-129-55-32.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 08:42.33 | *** join/#gllug axelS (axel@80.192.205.17) |
| 08:42.44 | axelS | good morning :) |
| 08:46.48 | new2unix | moin axelS |
| 09:08.29 | Wethrin_ | Morning |
| 09:19.54 | *** join/#gllug mozrat (~mozrat@mozrat-work.batesuk.com) |
| 09:20.01 | Wethrin | 'lo |
| 09:20.12 | mozrat | Hi! |
| 09:23.46 | Clyphox | lo |
| 09:25.30 | Wethrin | 'ello. |
| 09:25.40 | Wethrin | You should have been at Lonix. I got beer bought for me. |
| 09:25.54 | Tarragon | Good beer? |
| 09:26.26 | Wethrin | London Pride |
| 09:26.30 | Wethrin | (they ran out of IPA) |
| 09:26.46 | Wethrin | Cat died yesterday :( |
| 09:27.32 | Tarragon | :-( |
| 09:28.03 | mozrat | Sorry to hear that |
| 09:29.18 | highbury | morning |
| 09:30.14 | Tarragon | Hi highbury |
| 09:32.46 | mozrat | Wethrin: Was the cat old (or lacking road sense)? |
| 09:40.52 | Wethrin | He was 14. |
| 09:40.58 | Wethrin | Cancer |
| 09:42.06 | mozrat | :-( |
| 09:47.17 | *** join/#gllug irvined (~irvined@adsl-239-121.as15758.net) |
| 09:47.33 | Tarragon | Wethrin: Have you seen a copy of winerack yet? |
| 09:56.39 | Wethrin | Nope, I haven't. |
| 09:59.31 | Wethrin | Ahh. The ISO is on our CD burning machine :) |
| 10:11.33 | Tarragon | Any chance I could get a copy? - Willing to pay! |
| 10:12.33 | Wethrin | Would it be for magazine review purposes? |
| 10:14.12 | Tarragon | Truthfully - No - I just wanted to see how good it was. At the moment it is only in the US |
| 10:15.06 | Wethrin | I'll see *cough* :) |
| 10:15.29 | Tarragon | A review copy I assume I will eventually get through official channels :-) |
| 10:16.21 | Tarragon | Thanks. No worries if you can't. |
| 10:16.49 | Wethrin | Well, if you want it through unofficial channels, Roger might be able to get you a copy :) |
| 11:29.21 | *** join/#gllug ar (~ar@bob.nooneishere.co.uk) |
| 11:29.26 | Wethrin | arrrrr |
| 11:31.01 | mozrat|away | Wethrin: Are you at the dentist |
| 11:31.22 | Wethrin | No |
| 11:41.03 | Wethrin | Hnm. |
| 11:46.19 | Jenson|Away | Wethrin: sorry about your cat :( |
| 11:46.38 | Wethrin | Aye :-/ |
| 11:48.37 | Jenson|Away | anyway, in accordance with laziness, time for breakfast |
| 11:48.50 | Jenson|Away | Wethrin: I'll buy you a beer in honour of your cat tomorrow if you want |
| 11:49.12 | Wethrin | Mm. I already had 3 yesterday |
| 11:49.28 | Jenson|Away | well, up to you :) |
| 11:50.17 | Jenson|Away | well, seeya! |
| 11:50.51 | Wethrin | c'ya |
| 12:09.12 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~rc112576@beryllium.eu.sun.com) |
| 12:09.24 | Wethrin | Hello !Liverpool |
| 12:11.09 | Leeds | hello... |
| 12:12.24 | Leeds | degree? |
| 12:12.29 | Leeds | Desmond? |
| 12:12.32 | mozrat | kernel? |
| 12:14.03 | Wethrin | Yes, to Leeds |
| 12:14.05 | Tarragon | litre monster truck? |
| 12:14.35 | Wethrin | I have to say that with a IIii degree it's unlikely that you would get |
| 12:14.35 | Wethrin | funding for a PhD. Nevertheless there is the possibility of getting funding |
| 12:14.37 | Wethrin | for a one-year MRes degree |
| 12:14.52 | Tarragon | 2(ii) already? But you have only been there for one term. |
| 12:15.01 | Wethrin | Although it's a chance of getting that upgraded to a PhD later. |
| 12:15.09 | Wethrin | Tarragon: This is my second degree now |
| 12:17.03 | Tarragon | My taxes - bloody students! :-) |
| 12:17.35 | Wethrin | Oi. I'm paying for this degree! |
| 12:18.09 | Leeds | MRes? |
| 12:18.21 | Wethrin | Master of Research |
| 12:18.26 | Leeds | hmm... |
| 12:18.30 | Wethrin | .oO(Lobachevsky) |
| 12:28.08 | Leeds | so apparently my mum actually did blow up a PC... she's found 'a man' who can fix it - who said he could see that one of the chips on the board had blown as soon as he opened it up |
| 12:29.04 | Wethrin | Eek |
| 12:29.18 | Tarragon | How? What Linux app could do that. I remember hearing it was possible with Commadore Pets years ago |
| 12:30.23 | Leeds | Linux app? huh? It's a PC running windows and it went bang when she turned it on |
| 12:31.50 | Tarragon | Suicide? |
| 12:31.53 | Leeds | it's enough bloody work supporting her remotely on Windows (when I get to say "it's a windows problem - I don't do windows" a lot) |
| 12:32.42 | Leeds | yes, yes, I know |
| 12:33.32 | Leeds | but I don't have the patience to fight windows... and when one of the problems is with networking... |
| 12:36.05 | Wethrin | Install a nice Linux on her machine? |
| 12:37.56 | eye69 | Somehow I don't think that will keep the machine from blowing up. |
| 12:39.06 | Wethrin | No, but saves doing Windows support |
| 12:41.24 | Leeds | not going to happen... if they were local, maybe... |
| 13:05.29 | Wethrin | Mm |
| 13:16.10 | *** join/#gllug Xiaoqi (~nikki@negativezero.plus.com) |
| 13:16.44 | Xiaoqi | hi all |
| 13:17.35 | Xiaoqi | JD, ping |
| 13:18.08 | Clyphox | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:20.50 | Xiaoqi | hi Clyphox |
| 13:30.09 | Leeds | I've just had 6 spams in a row offering me weight loss drugs... |
| 13:30.26 | Xiaoqi | hmm :/ |
| 13:30.29 | Xiaoqi | hints? |
| 13:30.44 | *** join/#gllug formi (~formi@82-35-34-114.cable.ubr01.camd.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 13:30.51 | Leeds | hah |
| 13:31.04 | Xiaoqi | ;P |
| 13:31.19 | formi | hello |
| 13:31.23 | Xiaoqi | hiya |
| 13:32.04 | formi | En wil je het ook na de volgende reboot |
| 13:32.29 | formi | does anybody know which language is that? |
| 13:32.38 | Xiaoqi | dutch/afrikaans |
| 13:32.40 | Xiaoqi | ask Clyphox |
| 13:33.24 | Xiaoqi | and will you <het> also ... then i get lost |
| 13:33.28 | Clyphox | formi: its asking somthing about the next reboot |
| 13:33.38 | Clyphox | doesn't make sense without the preceding sentence |
| 13:34.07 | formi | Clyphox: before anything, BIG REMINDER, my bag |
| 13:34.13 | Clyphox | formi: got it |
| 13:34.23 | formi | http://docstorage.p5.org.uk/out.html |
| 13:34.49 | formi | in exchange for the "services provided by my bag" there goes a little job for you |
| 13:35.24 | formi | I haven't searched for a english version, there might be one |
| 13:36.14 | Clyphox | want me to translate what I can? |
| 13:37.21 | formi | hold on |
| 13:37.34 | formi | I'll try to contact the guy |
| 13:38.13 | formi | i can get by just with the "screenshots", but it looks like very nice guide |
| 13:39.08 | JD | Xiaoqi: pong |
| 13:40.06 | Leeds | 7... |
| 14:02.03 | *** join/#gllug jason_ukfsn (~jason@public1-watf3-5-cust248.lond.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 14:02.05 | jason_ukfsn | hey all |
| 14:02.33 | Clyphox | gtg.. my sister has taken ill again :-/ |
| 14:02.43 | Leeds | :-( |
| 14:06.51 | Leeds | I do like that the Economist is usually pretty pro-Linux and pro-Open Source... good as a general business magazine with generally somewhat right-wing views |
| 14:09.23 | zachary | jason_ukfsn: Having a better day? |
| 14:09.51 | jason_ukfsn | zachary: yes it is better today. I'm still tired though. I need a drink but I'll wait until tomorrow |
| 14:10.47 | zachary | I guess it is time to tithe again! :-) |
| 14:11.36 | jason_ukfsn | LOL |
| 14:12.09 | jason_ukfsn | I am so behind on things here. I need to spend some serious time catching up on paperwork and sort out renewals etc. |
| 14:12.30 | jason_ukfsn | I only need an extra 7 or 8 hours each day to keep up. |
| 14:26.48 | formi | tethereal -i an0 not port 6667 and not port 22 |
| 14:27.27 | formi | im running ethereal on my laptop, using wireless, and I can't see my flatmate's traffic |
| 14:29.08 | formi | i used to be able to sniff on him |
| 14:29.28 | Wethrin | How does he smell? |
| 14:30.38 | formi | coffee |
| 14:31.28 | formi | he's just back from his Starfucks job |
| 14:32.16 | Wethrin | Ah. |
| 14:35.07 | formi | can anybody suggest a cheap inkjet cartbriges retailer? |
| 14:43.54 | Wethrin | No. Cheap and inkjet cartridge don't go hand-in-hand |
| 14:44.42 | sparrowd | formi : refils is the only way with i/jets |
| 14:44.52 | formi | do we have a german speaking individual in here? |
| 14:46.22 | formi | sparrowd: my flatmate has a dodgy scanner/printer rebadged as a BT thing |
| 15:25.25 | sparrowd | the 486 handles b/band without hitting more than about 8/9% cpu iirc |
| 15:26.03 | Wethrin | Unfortunately it limited my bandwidth to 2Mbit. |
| 15:26.14 | Wethrin | But that's still plenty enough for the standard ADSL midbands |
| 15:27.13 | formi | my obsd p100 get to 30% irq usage from time to time |
| 15:33.18 | Wethrin | HEh |
| 15:35.56 | formi | I need to health check a xp box, back in a while |
| 15:36.04 | Wethrin | Have fun |
| 15:44.17 | Wethrin | Why? |
| 15:44.58 | Leeds | why not? |
| 15:45.10 | Wethrin | True. |
| 15:45.15 | Leeds | it's not like it would have any legal status anyway... and I could play with it :-) |
| 15:45.21 | Wethrin | Oh, fair enough :-) |
| 15:46.18 | Leeds | actually - to be honest, I misunderstood it... the trial is being carried out by the Passport Service, and I thought they were talking about passports with biometrics in... I need a new passport - the bloke at control in Paris told me that :-) - and I thought I'd get in and get a biometric one... but it's just an ID card |
| 15:46.43 | murble | Leeds: isn't a photo a pretty good biometric? |
| 15:46.58 | Wethrin | murble: Plastic surgery... |
| 15:47.23 | murble | Wethrin: why would a fingerprint by any better? |
| 15:47.38 | Leeds | "The UKPS will implement initially a facial recognition biometric (which can be derived from a passport photograph) in the British Passport book in accordance with emerging international standards in 2005." |
| 15:47.40 | Wethrin | murble: DNA sequence |
| 15:47.48 | murble | and iris codes don't work with a large population |
| 15:48.06 | murble | Leeds: they spelt US as inteernational for some reason |
| 15:48.18 | Leeds | probably EU too |
| 15:50.02 | jason_ukfsn | formi: ebuyer? |
| 15:50.04 | jason_ukfsn | why formi? what do you need? |
| 15:50.08 | jason_ukfsn | biometrics is a huge waste of time and money. They wont provide any verification over that provided by a photo. |
| 15:51.26 | Leeds | but, but... it'll stop illegal asylum seekers stealing all our jobs and women! |
| 15:52.02 | Leeds | "By using biometric data, linked to a national database, we can provide a modern, secure means of confirming identity, helping us to crack down on identity fraud, immigration abuse, illegal working and organised crime. We will also be in a much better position to ensure that our free public services are only used by those who are actually entitled to them." |
| 16:01.28 | *** join/#gllug armijn (~armijn@losser.labs.cs.uu.nl) |
| 16:01.32 | armijn | lo |
| 16:01.46 | jason_ukfsn | Leeds: asylum seekers aren't allowed to work so they only work black market jobs anyway and nobody wants those. |
| 16:02.00 | jason_ukfsn | They usually don't wash enough to steal the women worth having ;) |
| 16:02.27 | jason_ukfsn | At to the "linked to a national database" that would be illegal under DPA unless nobody outside the police had access. |
| 16:02.28 | Wethrin | 'lo armijn |
| 16:02.36 | Leeds | I am not basing my comments in any form of reality. Instead, I am imitating a stereotype of a Daily Mail reader |
| 16:03.11 | armijn | and probably "read" page 3 first ;-) |
| 16:03.12 | Wethrin | Leeds: Are you Glugging tomorrow? |
| 16:03.17 | Wethrin | armijn: That's the Sun :) |
| 16:03.20 | Leeds | Wethrin: planning to, yes |
| 16:03.47 | armijn | wethrin: oh... |
| 16:03.50 | Wethrin | Good :) |
| 16:04.03 | armijn | Sun Network was....interesting.... |
| 16:04.15 | armijn | at least I got the chance to interview James Gosling :D |
| 16:04.31 | Wethrin | Was he interesting? |
| 16:04.36 | armijn | oh yeh |
| 16:04.55 | Wethrin | :) Did you talk about Java? Or Emacs? Or NeWS? |
| 16:05.21 | Leeds | I've met people who've worked with him... |
| 16:06.05 | armijn | mainly java |
| 16:06.17 | armijn | and he started off with a rant about how crap all the linux distros are... |
| 16:06.40 | jason_ukfsn | on what basis? |
| 16:06.51 | Wethrin | armijn: <g> |
| 16:06.59 | Wethrin | Even Debian? </mock horror> |
| 16:07.16 | armijn | can't remember...I got it on minidisc, I was numbed after two days of conference and being hung over ;-) |
| 16:07.26 | Wethrin | Heh |
| 16:07.27 | Leeds | oh, so fun conference huh |
| 16:07.29 | Leeds | ? :-) |
| 16:07.34 | armijn | yeah :) |
| 16:07.46 | Wethrin | armijn: Come to Gllug tomorrow |
| 16:07.49 | armijn | front row seats during mcnealy's keynote |
| 16:07.53 | armijn | wethrin: no time :( |
| 16:07.58 | Wethrin | :( Come anyway. |
| 16:08.16 | Wethrin | I don't really have the time, but it's more fun that doing some really dull pointless Java coding |
| 16:08.37 | armijn | nah, got to do stuff for crypto course |
| 16:09.03 | Wethrin | We have beer |
| 16:09.16 | armijn | I have beer :) |
| 16:09.33 | Wethrin | We have good beer |
| 16:09.39 | Wethrin | >:-) |
| 16:09.40 | Leeds | I don't have the time either... |
| 16:09.41 | jason_ukfsn | armijn: you do realise that by studying crypto you are putting yourself in a position where the govt. must put you under house arrest for the rest of your life? |
| 16:09.45 | armijn | I have good beer :) |
| 16:09.58 | Leeds | jason_ukfsn: he's not in this country (or the US) |
| 16:10.06 | Leeds | or France... |
| 16:10.09 | Leeds | or Korea... |
| 16:10.23 | jason_ukfsn | so the americans will just assasinate him then ;) |
| 16:10.47 | Leeds | possibly |
| 16:10.47 | Leeds | but I don't think he matters enough :-) |
| 16:11.00 | jason_ukfsn | I'm sure his mum disagrees |
| 16:11.01 | armijn | what was also interesting was the indemnification that Sun gives to Java Desktop Users |
| 16:11.21 | Leeds | here it comes... |
| 16:11.22 | Wethrin | Don't control a nuclear power plant with this? |
| 16:11.29 | murble | armijn: they ship a 2.2 kernel? |
| 16:11.43 | murble | armijn: but presuably that doesn't work because if you grep for SMP you get strings return! |
| 16:11.46 | murble | ed |
| 16:12.20 | armijn | murble: no, a 2.4 kernel |
| 16:12.38 | Leeds | it's all Wethrin's problem anyway, not mine |
| 16:13.02 | Wethrin | Why's it my problem? |
| 16:13.11 | Wethrin | :) |
| 16:13.17 | murble | Isn't it just SuSE afterall? |
| 16:13.25 | Wethrin | With Sun bastardistations. |
| 16:13.26 | murble | or at least SUSE/Gnome |
| 16:13.28 | Wethrin | And it's SUSE :) |
| 16:13.31 | Leeds | well, since you represent Novell, along with all their works and corporate decisions |
| 16:13.36 | murble | Wethrin: just said that to annoy :) |
| 16:13.44 | Wethrin | :) |
| 16:13.52 | Wethrin | murble: You're coming tomorrow, yes? |
| 16:14.05 | murble | Wethrin: maybe, but no garrantees |
| 16:14.12 | Wethrin | There's beer |
| 16:14.21 | formi_xpiss | who is mad enough to miss the last one of the year!! |
| 16:14.33 | jason_ukfsn | there's even an opportunity to buy me a beer too! ;) |
| 16:14.34 | Wethrin | formi_xpiss: Too many people |
| 16:14.49 | Wethrin | No no. People should buy me beer, because I'm a poor student. |
| 16:14.59 | Wethrin | (well, it worked at Lonix) |
| 16:15.01 | murble | Wethrin: but you have a job as well! |
| 16:15.02 | jason_ukfsn | I'm poorer than a student. |
| 16:15.07 | armijn | wethrin: even after the buy out by novell? |
| 16:15.17 | Wethrin | murble: That just about pays for transport costs |
| 16:16.11 | murble | so maybe we should have a gllug piss up somewhere cheap, like bratislava |
| 16:16.29 | murble | (sky europe cheap airline to there) |
| 16:16.35 | Wethrin | murble: Transport costs.... |
| 16:16.36 | jason_ukfsn | murble: you seem to have forgotten that getting there costs money too :( |
| 16:16.49 | murble | jason_ukfsn: but when we get there i have lots of left over currancy |
| 16:17.04 | Wethrin | Beer is on murble :) |
| 16:17.18 | jason_ukfsn | not much use if I cannot get there though. |
| 16:17.59 | murble | jason_ukfsn: hense the pointer for cheap airline to get you there.. |
| 16:18.13 | murble | although it would probably be cheaper by coach, i wouldn't recoomed doing that. |
| 16:18.31 | jason_ukfsn | coaches are too small for me (well the seats are anyway) |
| 16:18.44 | Leeds | really? |
| 16:18.59 | Wethrin | Coaches aren't too bad, actually |
| 16:19.03 | murble | clearly gllug needs to invest its massive slush fund into buy a medium proffitable airline |
| 16:19.11 | jason_ukfsn | coach seats are tiny - they have no leg toom and my arse is too big. |
| 16:19.23 | murble | yeah leg room on coaches is a problem. |
| 16:19.28 | murble | which they'd do airline like seating. |
| 16:19.33 | Wethrin | Get a double-seat |
| 16:19.36 | murble | s/which/wish/ |
| 16:19.42 | murble | Wethrin: you can't. |
| 16:19.48 | armijn | heh, Sun NL chartered a whole plane to Berlin for this conference... |
| 16:19.51 | murble | jason_ukfsn: cool, does you car still work as well? |
| 16:19.58 | murble | s/you/&r/ |
| 16:20.04 | murble | or has the mot expired? |
| 16:20.08 | jason_ukfsn | the car is due it's MOT next week so I may be off the road then |
| 16:20.10 | Wethrin | murble: I did sometimes |
| 16:21.00 | jason_ukfsn | Now I just need to get a pump for the bike as the back type needs more air for some reason |
| 16:22.15 | murble | jason_ukfsn: are you going to attempt cycling london wards? |
| 16:23.01 | jason_ukfsn | not until I've gotten back to a reasonable level of fitness murble - I've not ridden a bike in almost 20 years |
| 16:23.45 | murble | have you invested in a cycle helmet? |
| 16:24.00 | murble | (they are very useful for bike sheds with low roofs etc) |
| 16:24.00 | jason_ukfsn | not yet |
| 16:24.14 | murble | avoided many a nasty bang on the head that way. |
| 16:24.36 | jason_ukfsn | you should have had the head banging - might have knocked sense into you ;) |
| 16:26.17 | murble | hehe :)_ |
| 16:26.35 | *** part/#gllug armijn (~armijn@losser.labs.cs.uu.nl) |
| 16:26.53 | jason_ukfsn | I'll be bashing my head as often as possible in the hope that I can then sue someone for it ;) |
| 16:27.10 | Wethrin | HAH. One of the guys here just got some random $evil_person off the phone |
| 16:27.36 | Leeds | jason_ukfsn: try slipping on a chip |
| 16:27.39 | Wethrin | Us: "If I give you this information, what will happen to it?" Them: "Is your address still Kinetic Centre" |
| 16:27.53 | Wethrin | Us: "If I give you this information, what will happen to it?" Them: "Errr....goodbye" |
| 16:29.06 | Leeds | jason_ukfsn: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3294205.stm |
| 16:29.27 | highbury | we just receive some disjointed call from Sainsbury's, I thought it was some whacky computer program, but I've been told they're cold-calling from India |
| 16:30.00 | Wethrin | "Would you like to buy some Sainsbury's Curry?" |
| 16:30.06 | jason_ukfsn | OK I'm off to the local chippy |
| 16:30.20 | Wethrin | Have fun |
| 16:30.31 | Wethrin | Assuming they haven't outsourced frying to India yet :) |
| 16:30.37 | Leeds | bah... kosher chippy closed just because it's the sabbath... |
| 16:30.40 | jason_ukfsn | I take it we all saw the report about sharwoods latest offering being called "arse" |
| 16:31.02 | jason_ukfsn | I hadn't realised the sun had gone down already! |
| 16:31.02 | Leeds | ???? |
| 16:31.11 | Wethrin | It's dark outside |
| 16:31.19 | Leeds | Sabbath started in London almost an hour ago - 1538 |
| 16:31.33 | Wethrin | Leeds: And you're still on IRC? |
| 16:32.01 | jason_ukfsn | Apparently Sharwoods latest curry thing has been given the Bengaleese word for arse as the name. They didn't catch it until after they'd spent a lot on advertising it already |
| 16:32.46 | Leeds | Wethrin: you've not noticed that I don't keep the sabbath? :-) |
| 16:32.49 | *** join/#gllug sparrowd (~tom@82-35-122-66.cable.ubr01.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 16:33.10 | Wethrin | jason_ukfsn: :):) |
| 16:33.15 | Wethrin | Leeds: Yes, well... |
| 16:35.52 | *** join/#gllug its-formi (~xax@82-35-34-114.cable.ubr01.camd.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 16:35.57 | sparrowd | I am writing user authentication in php -- passwds are stored as md5 hashes on the server, but how do people recommend I keep track of logged in users? (ie some form of session management) |
| 16:36.17 | Wethrin | Yes. |
| 16:36.25 | Leeds | yes? |
| 16:36.32 | Wethrin | Yes. Some form of session management. |
| 16:36.47 | Leeds | that would be a good idea, yes |
| 16:37.10 | jason_ukfsn | php has session management facilities in it which you should be able to use. |
| 16:38.22 | Wethrin | Hm. nForce 2 support under Linux is shit, isn't it? |
| 16:39.04 | Leeds | I think it's usable under newer kernels (2.6 - maybe 2.4.23) |
| 16:39.05 | eye69 | Wethrin: I believe so. |
| 16:39.18 | Wethrin | Right. So your standard box set wouldn't work |
| 16:39.34 | sparrowd | I am trying to make as secure as feasibly possible without ssl |
| 16:39.54 | sparrowd | ssl is just an extra layer of security, but I am not relying upon it |
| 16:40.11 | Wethrin | Use cookies |
| 16:40.49 | jason_ukfsn | how can you consider security to be important and then have passwords sent in plain text over the net? |
| 16:42.11 | its-formi | I'm still here, if I dissapear suddenly, blame winblows |
| 16:42.17 | Wethrin | Okay |
| 16:48.23 | *** join/#gllug its-formi (~xax@82-35-34-114.cable.ubr01.camd.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 16:50.44 | its-formi | i always make the same mistake when using trillian |
| 16:50.52 | Leeds | using Windows? |
| 16:51.11 | its-formi | if i click on the minimazing button, the irc windows disappears |
| 16:51.16 | its-formi | yeap |
| 16:51.30 | Wethrin | :) |
| 16:52.52 | Leeds | its-formi: to bratislava? |
| 16:53.10 | its-formi | appart from the usual baby sitting, and arse wiping |
| 16:53.41 | its-formi | Leeds: i should get home. family is starting to threat me |
| 16:53.57 | Leeds | but... your family isn't in bratislava, is it? |
| 16:54.37 | its-formi | AFAIK nope |
| 17:00.36 | murble | what has happened in bratislava? |
| 17:00.58 | Leeds | nothing that I'm aware of |
| 17:01.19 | jason_ukfsn | murble: someone put up the price of beer. Your money is no good there any more ;) |
| 17:01.20 | murble | Leeds: have you emaile the mori email address from ntk? |
| 17:01.27 | Leeds | murble: not yet |
| 17:01.44 | Leeds | but the quotes above (in "") were from the referenced page |
| 17:01.45 | murble | jason_ukfsn: that doesn't happen until may 2004 |
| 17:02.58 | jason_ukfsn | only a few months away then. |
| 17:06.03 | murble | well that is when they'll theoritically be UE members |
| 17:09.55 | *** join/#gllug Cope (~sanelson@wibbleworld.demon.co.uk) |
| 17:09.58 | Cope | Boo! |
| 17:10.09 | Leeds | Foo! |
| 17:10.14 | Cope | Hi Leeds. |
| 17:10.19 | Leeds | evening :-) |
| 17:10.21 | Leeds | how's it going? |
| 17:10.26 | Cope | Okay |
| 17:10.39 | Cope | Spent all of yesterday shopping, and today rearranging the room. |
| 17:10.59 | Cope | Now have desk etc in different place; made room for cot and baby stuff. |
| 17:13.25 | sparrowd | when I set a cookie, is the session id automatically saved on the client machine? |
| 17:13.50 | sparrowd | or is that a php only thing that needs to be physcially put in the cookie for being of any use |
| 17:14.04 | Leeds | setting a cookie just means storing some data at the client end... if that data is the session ID, it'll be saved - for as long as you specify the cookie to live for |
| 17:14.50 | Wethrin | Using sessions, PHP will automatically try and set a cookei |
| 17:18.28 | sparrowd | so when I run session_start(), is the session stored immediatly to a cookie? |
| 17:18.48 | Wethrin | Yes, which only lasts for the duration of that session |
| 17:19.15 | sparrowd | ie until browser is closed/cookies flushed or I run session_destry()? |
| 17:19.50 | Wethrin | Yes |
| 17:20.02 | sparrowd | this I like |
| 17:20.27 | Wethrin | Don't forget to sanitise any inputs you give |
| 17:20.30 | Wethrin | GEt |
| 17:23.04 | sparrowd | how do you mean? |
| 17:23.37 | Wethrin | Liberal use of escaping characters, etc. |
| 17:24.40 | Wethrin | If you have a username field on an HTML form, which sends the variable $username to a validation page, |
| 17:25.29 | Wethrin | and the validation page contains something like 'SELECT '.$username.' FROM users', you don't want the user to be able to type in "' ; DROP DATABASE'" |
| 17:38.23 | sparrowd | ah :-) well thought out :-) |
| 17:39.08 | sparrowd | but the user (inet_auth) that validates the user/pass has readonly access to the one table that contains users/password hashes |
| 17:39.34 | sparrowd | created with no privilages, and added just enough to validate the user |
| 17:39.42 | Leeds | which is fine until someone finds a hole in mysql which lets them run arbitrary SQL on the database :-) |
| 17:39.43 | Wethrin | $username = ' ; SELECT * FROM users' |
| 17:40.39 | Wethrin | HOMETIME! |
| 17:40.42 | Wethrin | See people tomorrow. |
| 17:41.01 | sparrowd | lines are read from the database as an array line by line, the user is compared to the user field, then further processing continues -- the username is never involved in the query |
| 17:41.12 | sparrowd | laters Wethrin |
| 17:41.39 | its-formi | time to xpiss off |
| 17:41.46 | its-formi | see ya tomorrow |
| 17:41.51 | *** part/#gllug its-formi (~xax@82-35-34-114.cable.ubr01.camd.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 17:42.00 | sparrowd | XtraPants |
| 17:42.22 | Leeds | what's wrong with your NormalPants? |
| 17:43.08 | Leeds | are they not complete? |
| 17:53.40 | *** join/#gllug morsing (~morsing@morsing.plus.com) |
| 18:03.27 | Xiaoqi | hihi |
| 18:07.18 | highbury | how cheaply can I put together a mini-itx based system, as a firewall? (minitx isn't necessary but quieteness is) |
| 18:07.37 | Leeds | 200-250 |
| 18:08.50 | Leeds | but that's with a single network interface, I think |
| 18:08.57 | murble | Leeds: if you are going to spend that much you could by a sokeris box |
| 18:09.04 | murble | s/by/buy/ |
| 18:09.22 | murble | and they are properly slient. |
| 18:10.24 | Leeds | I'm not going to spend anything... |
| 18:10.44 | sparrowd | Leeds : because microsoft decided hey wanted to ship out XtraPants |
| 18:10.53 | murble | s/Leeds/highbury/ |
| 18:11.01 | Leeds | murble: smooth :-) |
| 18:11.08 | *** join/#gllug eye69 (~magnus@upcore.net) |
| 18:11.29 | murble | this tab ai isn't working! |
| 18:11.52 | highbury | sokeris? |
| 18:12.56 | Cope | solaris? |
| 18:13.00 | Cope | Hi all. |
| 18:13.03 | Cope | Hi JD. |
| 18:13.11 | morsing | Hi |
| 18:13.15 | murble | highbury: soekris.com |
| 18:13.23 | murble | they have a european reseller |
| 18:13.26 | JD | oh yes they are very cute |
| 18:13.38 | JD | they were showing them on the openbsd stand at the show this year |
| 18:13.57 | murble | a 4801 looks quite nice. |
| 18:14.00 | murble | JD: indeed. |
| 18:14.43 | Cope | Very nice |
| 18:17.28 | murble | highbury: http://www.yuri.org.uk/~murble/quartz-copy/images-11-10-2003/linux-expo-2003/6.html |
| 18:17.43 | highbury | they dont look expensive, but they bloody are!!! |
| 18:18.34 | murble | highbury: prices are in euros |
| 18:18.52 | murble | and those are probably old prices. |
| 18:19.04 | Leeds | ibot 215 * 1.175 |
| 18:19.06 | | 252.625 |
| 18:19.13 | Leeds | ibot change 252.625 euro to gbp |
| 18:20.18 | Leeds | not all that much difference really, considering I was including a hard drive... |
| 18:20.42 | murble | Leeds: hard drives are noisy things |
| 18:20.51 | Leeds | nope |
| 18:20.57 | murble | nicer to not have harddisks in firewalls. |
| 18:21.24 | Leeds | what are you planning to boot your 486 off then? |
| 18:23.54 | murble | Leeds: they come with CF holders |
| 18:24.16 | Leeds | and how is CF different from a hard drive, assuming you spend most of your time spun down? |
| 18:25.31 | Leeds | anyway - price-wise... say you add the cost of a decent-sized CF card on... still comes to a similar amount... and the mini-itx box can use CF if you get an adapter |
| 18:26.21 | murble | Leeds: what power do mini-itx boxes require? |
| 18:26.45 | Leeds | dunno... use mains with an external transformer mostly, I think |
| 18:28.11 | Leeds | if those boxes were 50-100 quid, maybe they'd be interesting. As it is, they're not - to me, at least |
| 18:37.47 | JD | anyone use jabber? |
| 18:39.00 | *** join/#gllug Jenson|Away (~jenson@64.246.28.105) |
| 18:42.53 | Leeds | JD: yes |
| 18:43.19 | JD | id? |
| 18:44.11 | Leeds | sent privately unless everyone wants it... |
| 18:44.58 | Leeds | bah... I missed the popup "foo wants to add you to their roster because the bloody thing popped up under the cursor as I was typing, took focus and vanished |
| 18:46.02 | highbury | does it matter which server you register at, for purposes of jabber? |
| 18:46.13 | Leeds | nope |
| 18:46.54 | Leeds | your ID is username@server - pretty much as with mail - so it can be easily routed |
| 18:47.32 | highbury | is there an appropriate local server I could choose? |
| 18:47.57 | Leeds | it tends to be a) run your own server, b) use a friend's or c) use a public one |
| 18:49.44 | Leeds | I like it, but the client-side is a bit limited at the moment... most of the 'nicer' clients don't support some of the protocol/server features |
| 18:49.58 | jason_ukfsn | Leeds: what does it offer over IRC? |
| 18:50.52 | Leeds | well... much nicer protocol for a start :-) |
| 18:51.48 | Leeds | it's a somewhat different beast to IRC... a bit like news/email |
| 18:53.18 | Leeds | in theory, at least, the point is the lower-level protocol... the IM on top is just the default/demo application |
| 18:53.35 | Leeds | and if nothing else, it's in the process of being IETFed |
| 18:58.30 | jason_ukfsn | OK, put another way - will people use it if we set one up for gllug or just a general LUGs one |
| 18:59.06 | Leeds | I think so - and I want so |
| 18:59.26 | highbury | race! race! |
| 18:59.38 | Leeds | nah - I'd prefer not to run my own... |
| 18:59.55 | Leeds | if nothing else - I've found setting up transports to be a right bastard |
| 19:00.56 | Leeds | the important thing about Jabber, really, is that it's meant to be universal... IRC is splintered and unreliable, and the commercial IM networks are... commercial, splintered and unreliable (particularly using free tools) |
| 19:00.57 | jason_ukfsn | I'm not sure there's really demand. Someone suggested it to me yesterday and I'm wondering if it's worth doing. |
| 19:03.12 | Leeds | we could stimulate demand :-) |
| 19:04.07 | Leeds | bye-bye mozilla... |
| 19:06.38 | Clyphox | Muhahaha |
| 19:07.40 | Leeds | and... it looks like my ADSL is down at home... |
| 19:08.58 | jason_ukfsn | who are you with for ADSL Leeds? |
| 19:09.02 | Leeds | Bulldog |
| 19:09.46 | jason_ukfsn | Are they generally reliable? I've been thinking about approaching them to resell their products. |
| 19:09.51 | Leeds | the problem is pretty much that my router doesn't seem to like auto-reconnecting, I think... although it could be connected to my strange DHCP setup |
| 19:10.11 | Leeds | hard question to answer :-) |
| 19:10.44 | Leeds | my line goes down quite often, but it'll come straight back up manually... Sometimes it'll stay up for many days, sometimes for a few hours |
| 19:10.59 | Leeds | the network seems pretty decent... |
| 19:11.24 | Leeds | their datastream stuff is a bit crappy though... apparently that doesn't affect actual unbundled lines though |
| 19:12.15 | Leeds | I would guess their IPstream stuff is as good as anyone elses... |
| 19:12.50 | Leeds | I've only had to contact them for support once - when my line was re-activated, it was a couple of days early, so I called them to get my account details, which they e-mailed over quite happily |
| 19:21.07 | jason_ukfsn | datastream is probably what I am more insterested in unless their pricing is spectacular for IPStream. |
| 19:21.27 | jason_ukfsn | I'm also interested in their SDSL offerings. |
| 19:24.31 | Leeds | the main problem with the datastream seems to be that their contention is at the exchange... so they, in theory, provision one 2Mbit line from the exchange for up to 40 users - whereas, AIUI, it's more normal for the contention to be at the ISPs end... |
| 19:25.47 | Leeds | I have, in theory, a 2Mbit line off-peak. In practice, it seems to peak at about 1300-1500 most of the time, although it does sometimes approach the max... I can max out the 512 during-the-day easily, and I could max out my old Freeserve 512 easily |
| 19:41.01 | JD | hmmm this IM thing is evil |
| 19:44.30 | Clyphox | aren't they all? |
| 19:45.11 | Xiaoqi | lol |
| 19:46.45 | JD | Clyphox: irc is not evil |
| 19:46.48 | JD | everything else is |
| 19:48.11 | Clyphox | its like thinking your brain is the greated organ you have.. |
| 19:48.20 | Clyphox | ...gotta question why its telling you that tho! |
| 19:52.28 | *** join/#gllug resuBitch (~beth@82-35-122-66.cable.ubr01.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:01.58 | Clyphox|Bed | <-tired |
| 20:13.46 | Wethrin | zzzzz? |
| 20:14.44 | Wethrin | Clyphox|Bed: ping |
| 20:16.17 | Clyphox|Bed | asd |
| 20:17.06 | Wethrin | Ah. |
| 20:17.10 | Wethrin | I've got Dead Ringers tickets. |
| 20:17.18 | Wethrin | You have to come next Sunday :) |
| 20:23.29 | Clyphox|Bed | sounds like a plan *8-) |
| 20:27.35 | Wethrin | Good :) Just get yourself to White City around 6ish (to be sure of getting in) |
| 20:28.23 | Clyphox|Bed | where the hell is that? |
| 20:31.49 | Wethrin | Central Line, west side of London |
| 20:32.20 | Clyphox|Bed | damn.,, other side :-( |
| 20:36.41 | Wethrin | Yes. |
| 20:37.02 | Wethrin | Grab a travelcard; train to Liverpool Street, Central Line to White City |
| 20:37.44 | Clyphox|Bed | k |
| 20:38.56 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@host-212-158-207-148.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 20:39.09 | Wethrin | Leeds! |
| 20:39.11 | Wethrin | Good news! |
| 20:39.33 | Leeds | which is? |
| 20:39.43 | Clyphox|Bed | good things in life/ |
| 20:40.04 | Leeds | ?? |
| 20:40.29 | Clyphox|Bed | s//\/? |
| 20:41.03 | Wethrin | I have bits of paper from the BBC |
| 20:41.10 | Leeds | ah! :-) |
| 20:41.23 | Leeds | I was wondering about that... forgot when |
| 20:41.34 | Wethrin | Next Sunday (14th) |
| 20:41.48 | Wethrin | Might be an idea to try and be at TV centre fairly close to 6pm |
| 20:41.55 | Clyphox|Bed | how did u get em? |
| 20:41.59 | Leeds | okay, I can do that |
| 20:42.11 | Wethrin | Clyphox|Bed: I asked :) |
| 20:42.26 | Clyphox|Bed | wow.. good idea! |
| 20:42.47 | Leeds | that is pretty much how it works for BBC tickets - ask and thou shalt receive |
| 20:43.10 | Leeds | or so I understand :-) |
| 20:46.20 | Wethrin | Yes. |
| 20:46.36 | Wethrin | Ask, and thou shalf receive. But turn up early, for entrance is not guaranteed |
| 21:03.02 | JD | hi Wethrin |
| 21:05.39 | *** join/#gllug simon (~simon@host81-130-55-97.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 21:10.00 | *** join/#gllug Marios_ (~mkoumide@24.231.225.197) |
| 21:10.11 | Wethrin | Hi JD |
| 21:10.13 | Wethrin | And others |
| 21:10.44 | *** join/#gllug sYk0_frEak (Zachary@dialup-166.90.236.215.Dial1.Detroit1.Level3.net) |
| 21:10.52 | *** part/#gllug sYk0_frEak (Zachary@dialup-166.90.236.215.Dial1.Detroit1.Level3.net) |
| 21:11.04 | mozrat | Hey Wethrin. |
| 21:11.42 | mozrat | I'm in the happy position of having my laptop upgraded from a really old Dell to merely an old Dell from work |
| 21:11.59 | mozrat | In the process of removing the evil OS, and installing something better! |
| 21:12.09 | JD | Debian -> windows? |
| 21:12.15 | mozrat | Yep! |
| 21:13.13 | Marios_ | mozrat << Lindows |
| 21:13.14 | Marios_ | ;) |
| 21:15.21 | mozrat | Is there a Mr Cope in the house this evening? |
| 21:18.32 | murble | Cope: how was your meeting today? |
| 21:19.08 | Marios_ | Leeds << please give the URL |
| 21:22.57 | Leeds | Marios_: it's a subscription site |
| 21:23.40 | Leeds | but the URL is http://www.economist.com/theworldin/international/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2187754 |
| 21:24.22 | Leeds | I subscribe to the paper edition... they throw in the web access |
| 21:25.02 | Marios_ | I think my fiancee has subscription for this site |
| 21:25.14 | Leeds | cool :-) |
| 21:25.44 | Marios_ | but she is not here now....so i will just save the url |
| 21:25.46 | Leeds | then look at https://www.economist.com/science/tq/displaystory.cfm?story_id=2246308 too |
| 21:26.06 | Marios_ | did you go in the Lonix last night ? |
| 21:26.17 | murble | no, did you? |
| 21:26.30 | Leeds | no |
| 21:26.31 | Wethrin | Yes. |
| 21:26.52 | Marios_ | that's why the channel was dead last night |
| 21:26.56 | Leeds | Marios_: coming to GLLUG tomorrow? :-) |
| 21:27.14 | Marios_ | I would but no Concordes anymore |
| 21:27.36 | mozrat | honestly.. the slightest excuse |
| 21:27.58 | Marios_ | ;) |
| 21:27.59 | Wethrin | mozrat: No commitment, some of the people |
| 21:28.15 | Leeds | well... get a plane in 4 hours from now - you'd be in plenty of time for the important stuff... i.e. the pub :-) |
| 21:28.30 | Wethrin | Yes. |
| 21:28.53 | Marios_ | there is a flight in 4 and a half hours... |
| 21:28.53 | murble | steve coast? |
| 21:29.02 | Wethrin | It's an unwritten rule that anyone in this channel needs to go to gllug meetings :) |
| 21:29.02 | murble | Marios_: well you'd better get a move on then! |
| 21:29.05 | Wethrin | murble: yes |
| 21:29.15 | Marios_ | and be in London tomorrow at 10 am |
| 21:29.16 | Marios_ | :) |
| 21:29.26 | Leeds | that'd be fine! |
| 21:29.29 | Marios_ | :) |
| 21:29.30 | mozrat | how much would that cost for a day trip? |
| 21:29.32 | Wethrin | Well, then you get the tube straight in, just in time for the meeting |
| 21:29.46 | mozrat | The tubes probably the worst bit! |
| 21:29.57 | Marios_ | usually I get tickets for $350 but I book them 2 months before the flight |
| 21:30.00 | murble | mozrat: yeah well only 3.7 from LHR to zone1 |
| 21:30.01 | Wethrin | Nah. Picadilly Line from Heathrow to Leicester Square |
| 21:30.11 | Wethrin | And Northern Line up to Goodge Street |
| 21:30.14 | Marios_ | for today it will be more than $1000 |
| 21:30.17 | Wethrin | HIGNFY time |
| 21:30.27 | murble | Wethrin: better get picadilly to kingsX and walk. |
| 21:30.36 | murble | or holborn |
| 21:30.41 | Wethrin | Mebbe |
| 21:30.49 | murble | why? |
| 21:30.54 | Wethrin | Actually, Euston better than Kings X |
| 21:30.57 | Marios_ | the tube has dissapointed me |
| 21:30.58 | Leeds | murble: get cab from Heathrow... he's talking $1000 for a plane for fsck's sake :-) |
| 21:30.59 | murble | yeah. |
| 21:31.11 | Marios_ | it doesn't operate on Xmas day |
| 21:31.14 | Wethrin | Back in 30 mins |
| 21:31.32 | murble | Leeds: i rember gettin gexpensive flight to .lu for urgent thing got to the airport and ened up getting 2 buses and taking 2 hours to get to office. |
| 21:32.46 | Leeds | Marios_: you shouldn't be traveling on the Son of Man's birthday anyway |
| 21:33.21 | Marios_ | well I have to work even on the 23rd |
| 21:34.55 | Leeds | me too |
| 21:35.08 | mozrat | 24th for me :-( |
| 21:35.17 | Marios_ | actually I had to work even on the 24th... |
| 21:35.23 | mozrat | and it's a non-critical business |
| 21:35.34 | Marios_ | but I told them to forget it |
| 21:37.09 | Leeds | also on the 24th for me... but I don't expect to get all that much done :-) |
| 21:37.38 | Marios_ | hehehehhe |
| 21:37.57 | Marios_ | it is good in Europe you can get many days of paid vacations |
| 21:38.03 | Marios_ | here it is about 12 days |
| 21:39.14 | Leeds | 20 days minimum here normalls |
| 21:39.26 | Marios_ | almost double |
| 21:40.18 | Leeds | plus carrying time over :-) |
| 21:40.28 | Marios_ | oh really ? |
| 21:40.38 | Marios_ | kewl |
| 21:41.08 | Leeds | normally something like 5 days until March... |
| 21:41.41 | Leeds | so next year I have something like 23.5 days basic, plus 5 days carried over :-) |
| 21:42.01 | Marios_ | sweet |
| 21:43.55 | Leeds | on the other hand, for the short time I had an American manager, he was quite suprised when I tried to book holiday time for a Jewish holiday - he assumed it was 'free' |
| 21:44.28 | Marios_ | why free? |
| 21:44.47 | Leeds | because it was religious |
| 21:45.04 | Marios_ | we had this problem in my department |
| 21:45.47 | Leeds | considering I could need 6 or more days in a 'busy' year - and that's just for the 3 most important holidays |
| 21:46.06 | Leeds | if I only had 12 to start with, it would be pretty unfair |
| 21:46.16 | Marios_ | yeah true |
| 21:47.00 | Leeds | in fact, I'll probably need at least 5 days next year for that... |
| 21:47.40 | Marios_ | but in my department we had some muslims and they asked to not come in their holy day...but the manager said no , cause in this case all religions could go and ask for free days |
| 21:49.20 | Leeds | that would be a big deal for me... |
| 21:50.31 | Marios_ | yeah |
| 21:52.29 | Marios_ | so uou will need 5 days next year? |
| 21:53.11 | Leeds | more, probably |
| 21:54.01 | Cope | Leeds: How releveant (or out-of-date) is Solaris 7? |
| 21:54.38 | Leeds | hmm... well... lots of places using it still, I think, but it's pretty old and very out-of-date |
| 21:54.59 | Leeds | I would say 8 is the minimum for useful learning |
| 21:55.05 | Cope | I have SA-237 System Administration I Student Guide from a trainig course. Worth keeping as a reference? |
| 21:55.15 | Leeds | no idea :-) |
| 21:55.25 | Cope | I'm just clearing out a load of junk. |
| 21:55.31 | Cope | I'll keep that one. |
| 21:56.58 | Leeds | Marios_: I'll probably end up taking 7 days for Jewish stuff, since Passover and the New Year (both 2 days, both need to be at my family the day before) are both in the week - and one is Tuesday/Wednesday before a Friday/Monday 4-day weekend anyway, so I'm not going to be at work on the Thursday |
| 21:57.54 | Marios_ | the only days I take off are my birthday and nameday |
| 21:58.09 | Marios_ | and Good Friday |
| 21:58.23 | Leeds | plus probably 4 days between Christmas and New Year, which is partly for Jewish stuff... |
| 21:58.53 | Leeds | I don't take my birthday off, Good Friday is a public holiday anyway, and what's a nameday? |
| 21:59.15 | Marios_ | nameday is the day I celebrate my name |
| 21:59.37 | Marios_ | like mine come from Mary (Jesus' mom) |
| 21:59.46 | Leeds | yes, I guessed that :-) |
| 21:59.54 | Leeds | but I've never heard of a day to celebrate your name |
| 22:00.38 | Marios_ | I don't know what Christians in UK do ...back Greek Orthodox celebrate about 1 Saint everyday |
| 22:00.58 | Marios_ | so since our names come from Saint names... |
| 22:01.08 | Marios_ | we celebrate our name that day |
| 22:01.17 | Leeds | interesting... |
| 22:02.24 | Marios_ | like John .... John the Baptist day is January 7th ...so all Johns celebrate their name day that time |
| 22:02.28 | Leeds | cool :-) |
| 22:02.35 | Leeds | is there actually a St. Richard? |
| 22:02.52 | Marios_ | there are hundreds and hundreds of Saints |
| 22:03.00 | Marios_ | I have to look on the calendar |
| 22:03.08 | Leeds | don't worry too much :-) |
| 22:03.13 | Marios_ | ok :) |
| 22:03.25 | Marios_ | so Good Friday is public holiday ? |
| 22:03.46 | Leeds | yes... and Monday |
| 22:03.57 | Leeds | that's the Friday/Monday 4-day weekend I meant :-) |
| 22:04.03 | Marios_ | I see |
| 22:04.23 | Marios_ | but Western Europe and Eastern Europe Easter is not on the same day |
| 22:04.32 | Leeds | of course, Google knows Saint Richard... |
| 22:04.36 | Marios_ | except once every 5 years I guess |
| 22:05.11 | Leeds | is it on a different calendar, or just a different date? |
| 22:05.23 | Leeds | http://employees.csbsju.edu/roliver/richard.html |
| 22:05.36 | Marios_ | Easter day is according to the moon... |
| 22:06.01 | Marios_ | but there is a different between Western Christian and Eastern Christian churches |
| 22:06.46 | Leeds | not like the Jewish calendar, where the whole thing is lunar |
| 22:06.53 | Marios_ | almost always Eastern Church Easter is one week after Catholics and Protestants Easter |
| 22:07.29 | Marios_ | actually there is a Javascript code I found sometime ago that calculates our Easter |
| 22:08.52 | murble | Marios_: based on luna observations? |
| 22:09.18 | Marios_ | I have it in front of me right now... |
| 22:09.20 | Leeds | http://www.limmud.org/hebdate.js calculates today's hebrew date |
| 22:09.40 | Marios_ | it does some calculations...but I don't know where they base them |
| 22:10.52 | Marios_ | Leeds << are there any Jewish holidays on 19th or 20th of this month ? |
| 22:11.18 | Wethrin | 'lo |
| 22:12.15 | Leeds | Marios_: yes |
| 22:12.22 | Leeds | Wethrin: so who is this host anyway? |
| 22:13.00 | Leeds | Marios_: why do you ask? The chance of a yes is pretty low :-) |
| 22:13.07 | Wethrin | Which host? |
| 22:13.24 | Leeds | HIGNFY... TiVo :-) |
| 22:13.33 | Wethrin | Poland celebrates namedays |
| 22:13.42 | Wethrin | Err....can't remember :) No-one I've heard of |
| 22:13.46 | Marios_ | Leeds << cause as I told you I work with a Jew girl and she will take the day off as I saw on the calendar |
| 22:13.59 | Marios_ | Wethrin << are you Polish ? |
| 22:14.02 | Wethrin | Half |
| 22:14.18 | Leeds | Marios_: I wouldn't expect her to take time off for it - it's one of the most laid-back holidays |
| 22:14.36 | *** join/#gllug Marios_ (~mkoumide@24.231.225.197) |
| 22:16.40 | Marios_ | Leeds << what kind of holiday is it? |
| 22:24.35 | Marios_ | nobody is going out tonight ? |
| 22:26.56 | Leeds | nope, not going out |
| 22:28.05 | Leeds | the holiday is Chanukah - it's a post-biblical thing celebrating the liberation of Jerusalem and the Temple from some Greeks... |
| 22:28.22 | Marios_ | from Greeks ?? |
| 22:28.24 | Marios_ | lol |
| 22:28.29 | Leeds | highbury: which, unfortunately, does mean, I think, that Sky+ is now actually more useful than TiVo |
| 22:28.54 | Leeds | yeah, Greeks :-) |
| 22:29.20 | eye69 | highbury: Cool |
| 22:29.38 | Marios_ | Highbury << How much you pay per month and how many channels? |
| 22:29.52 | highbury | leeds its taken 18months since I bought it, for them to upgrade the software to do it. Now however, the 40Gb disk can run out of space even faster! |
| 22:30.40 | Leeds | highbury: 60 quid for a 120Gb one... going to put it in my TiVo at some point over the weekend :-) |
| 22:30.55 | highbury | Marios_, too much, £55pcm with most available channels, 100+ |
| 22:31.11 | Marios_ | aouch !! expensive |
| 22:31.21 | Leeds | whoa... I only pay 25 for the basic package + Film4 |
| 22:31.52 | highbury | yeah, when I can afford to, I'll upgared my Sky+ box, but it seems only Maxtor disks work |
| 22:31.53 | Wethrin | Hmm. I really don't have much use for PCs |
| 22:32.12 | Leeds | mine is a Maxtor... |
| 22:32.53 | murble | highbury: how hackable are the sky+ boxes? |
| 22:33.03 | highbury | what I'm not sure of, is whether I have to use ATA100 disks, as I thought most Maxtors were ATA133 |
| 22:33.30 | Leeds | I would *hope* that would be fine...any ATA133 drive should run fine as an ATA100 |
| 22:33.36 | highbury | Unlike Tivo Sky do no condone or support it. It voids the warrantee |
| 22:33.47 | highbury | There are sites which describe what to do |
| 22:34.06 | Leeds | it voids the warranty on the TiVo too, but they'll still support you... |
| 22:34.17 | murble | highbury: so they don't have an ethernet interface for it etc? |
| 22:34.41 | highbury | murble, nope :-( |
| 22:35.06 | highbury | It is allegedly Linux, but no access to it |
| 22:35.46 | Leeds | I'd not heard it was Linux |
| 22:37.25 | highbury | apparenetly the disk is limited to 130Gb'ish, after which the data wraps around |
| 22:38.05 | Leeds | TiVo can't see more than 130Gb or so of any one disk - but it can take 2 disks easily, so 240Gb or so is the sane maximum |
| 22:38.52 | JD | I'm still waiting for sky to record random stuff |
| 22:39.14 | Leeds | pizzas of mass distruction... |
| 22:39.18 | Leeds | JD: does it do that? |
| 22:39.28 | murble | doesn't the sky have an magic guessing thing like the tivo had? |
| 22:39.29 | Wethrin | Not distraction? |
| 22:39.42 | murble | and why can't the tivo use the electronic program guide avalible in the broadcasts? |
| 22:39.45 | JD | murble: apprently not |
| 22:39.56 | murble | JD: how crap |
| 22:40.03 | murble | does it skip adverts? |
| 22:40.13 | JD | of course it doesn;t |
| 22:40.15 | Leeds | murble: because they're not available in the analogue picture stream it gets from the sky/cable/DTS/RF |
| 22:40.17 | JD | this is sky |
| 22:40.37 | Leeds | TiVo doesn't skip ads, but it does have a secret "skip 30 seconds forward" button |
| 22:40.53 | JD | :) |
| 22:40.57 | murble | Leeds: they didn't ever do a dvb-t version? |
| 22:41.33 | Leeds | murble: there's a digital satellite one in the US, done with DirecTV - called the DIrecTiVo, obviously... |
| 22:41.49 | Leeds | pretty much the same as Sky+ but with the TiVo engine |
| 22:42.45 | Leeds | remember that TiVo in the UK was basically an experiment which failed - for marketing reasons, not technical |
| 22:43.05 | JD | which was? |
| 22:43.14 | JD | did it not do well in .us? |
| 22:43.47 | Leeds | they have slightly over 1 million subscribers worldwide. it is estimated that there are/were about 25000 TiVo customers in the UK |
| 22:43.57 | Leeds | they are only active in the US and the UK |
| 22:44.27 | Leeds | and only minimally-active in the US :-( |
| 22:45.09 | Leeds | uh |
| 22:45.10 | Leeds | um |
| 22:45.13 | Leeds | in the UK... |
| 22:47.16 | JD | so what happens when they go bust? |
| 22:47.26 | JD | are you left with a useless box? |
| 22:48.09 | Leeds | TiVo? not planning to go bust... they're doing okay, business-wise |
| 22:48.38 | Leeds | they have said - and we generally trust them - that there's a 'big red button' which opens all the boxes up... |
| 22:49.20 | Leeds | plus, enough work has been done on pulling the system to pieces that it would be possible to build a third-party system, although some of the research hasn't been widely published because of the deal between the company and the community |
| 22:49.36 | JD | cool |
| 22:50.40 | Leeds | the deal being, effectively - the community are free to do what we want with the boxes... hard drives, network cards, whatever - and with most of the software... web servers, ethernet-based updating, etc. |
| 22:50.49 | murble | Leeds: i know someone who was given tivo box by work for reverse engineering purposes. |
| 22:51.06 | Leeds | and the company do help out - they provide more than their GPL-required support for the code, they tell us about backdoors and so on... |
| 22:51.38 | Leeds | the flipside is that the reputable side of the community will not mess with the 'service' side of it - don't try to get service without paying... |
| 22:51.53 | Leeds | murble: towards what goal? |
| 22:52.09 | murble | Leeds: making a simular box to sell for client. |
| 22:52.19 | Leeds | that's naughty |
| 22:52.23 | murble | or atleast how vesible it would have been. |
| 22:52.26 | murble | Leeds: why? |
| 22:52.34 | murble | they just wrote requirements based on the tivo product. |
| 22:52.36 | Leeds | naughty to reverse-engineer it to clone it... |
| 22:52.41 | Leeds | that's not reverse-engineering |
| 22:52.58 | murble | Leeds: it is research though, and they probably did the rest for fun. |
| 22:53.10 | murble | and if they'd gone ahead with it, they would probably have spent more time ont hat. |
| 22:53.24 | Leeds | black-box speccing is fine - reverse-engineering to compete isn't fine |
| 22:53.51 | murble | well if that was teh case would anyone have personal computers? |
| 22:53.57 | murble | and ibm compatible ones at that? |
| 22:54.54 | Leeds | that's different... |
| 22:55.04 | Leeds | the TiVo hardware is pretty open |
| 22:55.23 | Leeds | but their product is the service, and the quality of the algorithms... |
| 22:56.21 | Leeds | and it's a licensed platform anyway - if you want to produce a TiVo, you can deal with them |
| 22:56.37 | murble | Leeds: not if you want to compete with them :) |
| 22:57.04 | Leeds | exactly |
| 22:57.17 | Leeds | you have the right to reverse-engineer to interoperate, but not to compete |
| 23:07.55 | Leeds | ah, masterbation and Grand Slam tennis :-) |
| 23:10.48 | Wethrin | Is there a way of ensure sole access to a file; and any other process that comes along just waits until that file is free? |
| 23:11.33 | Leeds | mandatory locking? |
| 23:12.43 | Leeds | http://web.systhug.com/kernel-lock/ |
| 23:13.12 | Wethrin | Danke |
| 23:13.36 | Leeds | bitte |
| 23:13.45 | Wethrin | Now, if it applied to OpenBSD :) |
| 23:26.57 | Leeds | don't think so, no |
| 23:27.07 | Leeds | but it's apparently normally discretionary |
| 23:27.50 | Wethrin | Hm. So I'd need to open the file, get the lock, write to the file, release the lock, and close the file? |
| 23:28.46 | Leeds | I think you put the lock around the open/close, not around the write, normally |
| 23:29.41 | highbury | does anybody have a copy of the GLLUG Logo, which can be expanded? I can't remember who did the original |
| 23:30.51 | Leeds | Wethrin: it does depend on your context though - but the point of discretionary locking is that only things which sign up to use the same locking mechanism as you will be safe |
| 23:30.55 | Leeds | highbury: nope, sorry |
| 23:32.41 | Wethrin | Leeds: That's okay |
| 23:33.26 | Leeds | if you're just locking it against yourself, there's loads of ways to do it |
| 23:33.38 | Wethrin | Yeh |
| 23:44.45 | Wethrin | Time for bed |
| 23:44.50 | Wethrin | g'night - see you tomorrow |
| 23:46.38 | Leeds | gnight |
| 23:48.46 | mozrat | Guys is there going to be WLAN access at GLLUG tomorrow? |
| 23:50.06 | Leeds | doubt it |
| 23:50.20 | Leeds | there isn't normally |
| 23:50.39 | Leeds | AFAIK at least - could just be that no-one told me :-) |
| 23:50.48 | mozrat | Wired Internet access? |
| 23:51.14 | Leeds | sort of |
| 23:51.33 | Leeds | we use the Uni computer labs - we can get to the 'net through their network, but not normally for our own machines |
| 23:51.50 | Leeds | good for downloading stuff from mirror.ac.uk though - since they're on JANET :-) |
| 23:52.11 | mozrat | Shame, otherwise I could bring my Wireless Access point |
| 23:52.16 | Leeds | I might bring along a load of blank CDs... they're vitually free, and I needed one last time and no-one had spares |
| 23:52.47 | Leeds | I don't think there's any need for wireless access, actually... |
| 23:54.32 | mozrat | no? |
| 23:55.13 | Leeds | there aren't *that* many people with laptops... and most people don't use the 'net access that much... mainly for downloading distros |
| 23:55.33 | mozrat | true... just a thought. |
| 23:55.45 | Leeds | anyway. we couldn't do it - the Uni wouldn't really let us... |
| 23:55.51 | Leeds | but thanks for the offer :-) |
| 23:56.05 | mozrat | thats what I figured.... cool. See you tomorrow probably |
| 23:56.27 | Leeds | what probably??? huh? |
| 23:56.51 | mozrat | Well I'll be there certainly (going with Cope) |
| 23:57.09 | Leeds | ah, cool... I'll see you there then :-) |
| 23:57.28 | mozrat | Yep. Dogs attacking me wanting a walk. See you tomorrow! |
| 23:57.30 | mozrat | nn |
| 23:58.24 | Leeds | night |