irclog2html for #gllug on 20031209

00:17.45highburyanybody use k3b to create audio disks?
01:36.15*** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@host-212-158-207-148.bulldogdsl.com)
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02:17.55therockstunkidzno one at home, but the point is, that I've arrived and wanna say 'hello' to everyone, even though everyone seems to be down the pub :)
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05:19.38Clyphoxmoo
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07:11.54mozratIs anyone else up at this ungodly hour?
07:14.11zacharyyes
07:14.20mozratGood Morning!
07:14.35zacharyWell I wouldn't go as far as calling it good!
07:14.46mozratTrue...
07:14.58mozratAlthough it is most certainly morning
07:15.08zacharybeen up at 3am back down at 3:30 and then again at 5:30
07:15.18mozratBabys?
07:15.27zacharyyes
07:15.44mozratHurrah! Been there. Mine are a little more settled now
07:16.50zacharyMy daughter is a little over 1 1/2.
07:16.57zacharyson is 2 months
07:17.26mozratEwww. 2 months isn't the most sleep productive age is it!
07:18.33zacharyCan't waite until he's over the 6 month period.
07:19.10zacharyI don't care about the cuteness, I want functionality!
07:19.16mozrat:-)
07:19.24mozratYou want more downtime
07:19.42zacharyWell consistancy would be nice.
07:19.50mozratSpeaking of downtime I've been called into work at 0700 to reboot 15 Windows 2000 Servers for patches
07:20.15mozratStrangly the Linux ones don't need rebooting. Must point that out to someone
07:21.23zacharyImagine that. An os that doesn't need to be rebooted everytime you upate something, or get a cup of coffee, or caugh.
07:22.51mozratThat would be so cool. Someone should invent one.
07:23.51mozratWhat would one call such an invention?
07:23.55zacharyI think FSF should pattent the concept. That way when MS finally gets they're shit together. We can charge them. :)
07:24.13mozratThat is the best idea.
07:24.41mozratIt was a good talk on databases on Saturday
07:34.08zacharyTushar offered the talk at the pub after RMS gave his lecture. We might get him for another talk, "Migrating from MS-SQL."  
07:34.54mozratI was playing with the idea of giving a talk on Linux Virtual Server... High availability web services stuff
07:35.19zachary:-)
07:36.02mozratwe use it here a lot, and it is quite easy to explain the concepts. Examples would be a little tricky though
07:38.40zacharyConceptual examples is best for diagrams. But if you would like to do an actual demo. We could have a second half in the computer lab. And set it up before hand. Sean does have removable hdd.
07:39.42mozratIt could be done with 4 different terminal screens and a web browser-- you wouldn't need to see 4 different boxes
07:39.49mozratSSH back onto here!
07:40.23mozratOr UML
07:43.06mozratOK... I need to take advantage of the only benefit of coming into work early... free breakfast. Speak to you later!!!
07:43.35zacharyk, I need food too!
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09:45.11LeedsMrs. Trellis, North Wales
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09:58.38mozratGood Morning Leeds
09:59.12Leedsmorning
09:59.35mozratWas there some relevance to the outburst "Mrs Trellis, North Wales"??? :-)
10:00.29Leedsyes, of course
10:00.34mozratGood.
10:00.49Leedsibot google for mrs trellis north wales
10:01.26Leedshmm... I really didn't expect her to have her own domain :-)
10:02.17Leedsbut it is the right Mrs. Trellis...
10:02.28mozratStill none the wiser if I'm honest!
10:03.21Leedsno, indeed...
10:03.43Leedstry the BBC link...
10:04.29mozrat:-)
10:05.35Leedsmake any sense yet? :-)
10:06.01mozratYep... think so
10:17.28Copemorning
10:27.59Leedsvery strange 'Jewish' Simpsons
10:31.35Copehmm
10:32.43Copemozrat: pin
10:32.47Copemozrat: ping
10:43.33mozratCope: reply from....
10:43.38mozratCope: reply from...
10:46.16Copemozrat: boing!
10:46.50CopeHow was Reading?
10:47.15Copewe're off to the Doctors now... ttyl.
10:47.25Cope@nick Cope!Doctor
10:52.06mozratReading was far far away
10:53.25Clyphoxlol
10:53.29Clyphoxhttp://tinyurl.com/ye4w
10:54.32Leedsum...
10:54.37Clyphoxsad
10:54.44mozratFunny, but a disturbing amount of factual inaccuracies
10:54.58mozratI'm sure Simon Weston wasn't in that many Duran Duran videos
10:56.32Clyphoxgtg.. laters
11:51.33mozratWow.. that was quick
11:51.47CopeDoctor is on the same street as our house.
11:52.14mozratThats lucky... what did he say (in terms of delivery date)
11:53.08CopeHe said: 'One contraction and the baby will be fully engaged, could be any day'
11:53.19mozratGulp.
11:53.47mozratThat kind of talk makes me nervous. You must be terrified
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11:54.24CopeI think there was a 'show' yesterday too.
11:54.41Cope</off topic>
11:58.22CopeOk: Challenge of the day:
11:58.29CopeYour budget is 100 pounds.
11:58.42CopeYou already have a 15 inch monitor, but its a bit flakey.
11:58.47*** join/#gllug Xiaoqi (~nikki@negativezero.plus.com)
11:58.47CopeYour mission:
11:59.12CopeBuild a TV with teletext and DVD player.
11:59.18CopeDo-able?
11:59.20Xiaoqimorning all
12:00.23CopeMorning nikki
12:04.54Xiaoqi:)
12:07.51Cope'We don't need to spend 100 pounds on a TV, you could make a computer that did tv, and then you could have another computer!'
12:11.44eye69Cope: Sure, you can get a TV card for less than 100 quid.
12:12.27eye69Doh....you didn't have a machine, did you? :)
12:12.28CopeWell, I need a pc to put it in too.
12:13.07eye69Considering that any machine you get wont be usable for much else, I would seriously consider spending 100 quid on a used TV instead.
12:13.34eye69I'm using my machine as TV, but I want something like a 28 inch TV instead.
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12:23.18mozratCope: £119 gets you a new TV/DVD from Asda
12:23.57Copemozrat: Yeah, but will it work as a gateway/firewall?
12:24.24mozratCope: Sure... do you have a soldering iron and a wedge of elastic bands?
12:29.29Copehttp://freevo.sourceforge.net
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14:31.25formihello
14:32.44Leedsshalom
14:32.57formiis that a threat?
14:33.25Leedsum, no
14:33.34Leedsis there any reason it should be?
14:34.08mozratI have a problem!
14:35.12formiLeeds, you know how religious I am
14:35.23Leedsnothing religious about shalom
14:36.06*** join/#gllug ar (~ar@bob.nooneishere.co.uk)
14:36.52Leedsmozrat: go on then...
14:38.09mozratI have a solution in mind... but it is a webserver/permissions thing. A client has a apache server they want to upload files to using FTP. The files are owned by www-data:www-data and the permissions 755.
14:39.16mozratObviously this chap connects using a standard user account. I'm a little nervous about chmoding all the webfiles to 777. Should I give him group ownership, or setup a different directory and use rsync to get the web content into the web root
14:41.54formihttp://new2unix.no-ip.com/gllug/IMG_0123.JPG
14:44.11mozratI saw that dude on Saturday!!!
14:47.23Leedsmozrat: uploading new files or changing existing ones?
14:47.38mozratBoth!
14:47.44Leedsand I assume these aren't static files - they're scripts, right?
14:48.26mozratjust html and php
14:49.00Leedsso some are scripts
14:49.15Leedsonly wondering why they're executable :-)
14:49.30Leedsand they can't be owned by the user?
14:50.49mozratsorry leed. brb
14:51.40formican you set a file mask for a directory?
14:54.30formiyou ate my food, http://new2unix.no-ip.com/gllug/IMG_0172.JPG
14:59.01Leedsum, right
14:59.08LeedsBTW, do you know what shalom means?
15:02.49mozratRight so the best way to go is 744 user:user and let the apache server read the files using the "other" permissions
15:03.03mozrator even 644
15:03.52formiLeeds something like hello,
15:04.08mozratLeeds: Peace?
15:04.16Leedsformi: hello, goodbye and peace (which is the original meaning)
15:04.32mozrat2/3 isn't bad!!
15:04.37Leedstrue...
15:04.45Leedsbut I'm wondering how that is possibly threatening
15:04.48formiso I suppose they don't use it much in Israel
15:06.31Leedsmozrat: isn't that going to mean that the scripts fail to run?
15:06.54formii remenber when i was about 13 i used to read a lot of sci-fi books, in one of them they used something like "expansion for your mind" as a greating
15:08.52mozratLeeds: i think php scripts should be OK
15:09.11Leedsmozrat: okay, fair enough
15:10.00mozratLeeds: Thanks
15:11.41*** join/#gllug Clyphox (~clyphox@82-35-127-97.cable.ubr01.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk)
15:13.45Leedsnot sure how I helped, but you're welcome :-)
15:17.59formiClyphox,
15:20.28formiback in a few minutes
15:21.28mozratLeeds: You helped because I was stuck on the idea that www-data should own the files, and my user would have to have world-writeable permissions on the data. If I give the user ownership and let www-data read through the "world" permissions that would be more secure. So thanks!!!!
15:21.51Leedsah, cool...
15:26.53Leedsargh, glibc...
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15:53.53Clyphoxformi
15:54.33formihow could you trust in Jenson to bring my bag????
15:55.14formiat least she left at home
15:55.29Clyphoxyou didn't get it?
15:55.36formino
15:55.42Clyphoxwhat happened?
15:55.50formishe forgot
15:56.09Clyphoxsigh
15:57.32formiif there is a next time, just tie it to here neck very tight
15:57.41formis/here/her
15:57.51Clyphoxnoted
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17:21.34sparrowdhow can I specify to lilo that I want to create a map file, but somewhere other than default?
17:21.48Clyphoxdunno
17:22.02sparrowdneither do I :-)
17:26.18Clyphoxwhat r map files for anyway?
17:27.25sparrowdmapping hdds to bios
17:27.27sparrowdiirc
17:27.39highburymap=mapfile
17:27.57resuDaedhighbury : like I said ?? (I think)
17:28.18highburyits documented
17:28.56resuDaedI don't have access to documents here, just irc
17:29.16resuDaedbut I am asking, was the guess right?
17:30.59highburymap=mapfile
17:34.08resuDaedthis is a beautiful machine I am working on, but it takes 90 seconds for the bios' to do their bit :-(
17:34.28eye69A slow BIOS is a sign of a powerful machine. :)
17:35.04resuDaeddual PPro (200MHz, 256k L2), 256MB EDO, 2x 10G SCSI HDDs
17:35.24resuDaedPowerful in its own day
17:35.38Clyphoxstill need to pay me for that ;-)
17:35.56resuDaed(not compaq)
17:36.13resuDaedClyphox : yeah - for the prosignia
17:36.35Clyphoxohh yeah.. it wasn't a dualy was it
17:36.40resuDaedthis I have built out of old scraps laying about the workshop
17:37.08resuDaedit will retire the 800MHz celeron :-)
17:37.21resuDaedwhen I eventually get an OS on it
17:38.55Clyphoxnetbsd is fun
17:39.00Clyphoxno great SMP iirc
17:49.49highburyanybody run spamassassin+kmail ?
17:50.02Clyphoxyuck
18:30.41*** join/#gllug morsing (~morsing@morsing.plus.com)
18:31.24morsingtherockstunkidz :-) How are you doing?
18:31.34Xiaoqihi
18:31.39morsingHi there
19:01.16JDhi Xiaoqi
19:11.55Clyphoxhi JD
19:11.59Clyphoxhows you?
19:13.46JDnot too bad
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19:30.31CopeI got a 14" monitor and speakers for 15 quid!
19:30.51ClyphoxCope: I got 5 15" for free :-)
19:31.05ClyphoxSchool threw em out for no reason
19:31.11CopeBah! I'd have bought one from you.
19:31.27Clyphoxbrought them home.. drained the water and let them dry and they work :-)
19:31.31CopeAnyone got a basic basic machine they want to get rid of?
19:31.33Clyphoxquite amazon
19:31.51Clyphoxer amazing.. and no soz
19:32.38Clyphoxits damn good listening to them trying to sing in english heehee..
19:32.55Clyphoxhmm.. high in cocoa
19:33.05CopeExtremely so.
19:34.41Xiaoqimmm chocolate...
19:35.39JDwhere?
19:35.41JDohh there
19:35.47Xiaoqilol
19:36.23JDawww
19:36.33Xiaoqitoo tired!
20:01.03formi<murb>/me kills formi
20:41.31JDping
20:49.42highburyhi jd, a SpamAssassin question for you...
20:50.18*** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@host-212-158-207-148.bulldogdsl.com)
20:50.20highburyWhen SA marks an email as spam, it seems to put a mime-wrapper round the original email
20:50.52Leedsit's optional
20:51.02Leedsdepends on how you're doing the marking
20:51.17Leedsor at least it was in the ancient version we're still using
20:51.33highburywhen I want to train SA, can I train it with a folder containing those wrapped entries, or do I have to revert it back to the original form
20:51.37JDhighbury: you can fix it, but I've not got the runes here
20:51.42JDcheck the fq
20:51.44JDFAQ
20:56.16CopeEvening
20:57.18LeedsCope: yes, yes it is... you got that just right
20:58.15Leedsand next on "Stating the time of day" - coming soon!  NIGHT!
20:58.39Leeds:-)
20:59.02CopeLeeds: When you go to your sister's house-warming party, could you do me a favour?
20:59.27Leedspossibly... ask
20:59.51JDCope: invite you?
20:59.54CopeWell, new2unix has a computer for me, but I have no transport; could you pick it up and drop it off on your way home?
21:00.06Leedsremind me where you are?
21:00.15CopeOn the A5 - just below cricklewood
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21:00.43Leedspostcode?
21:00.54CopeNW6 1NS
21:00.58LeedsJD: stop that!@
21:01.07JDLeeds: sorry
21:01.14CopeLeeds: Do they have fluffy faces?
21:01.24LeedsCope: um, no...
21:01.50Leedshmm... are you actually on Shoot-Up Hill?
21:02.08CopeLeeds - about 100 yards off Shoot-Up-Hill
21:02.24Leedsah... I've got a friend who lives across the road from the Kwik-Fit
21:02.34WethrinHellllllo
21:02.40CopeYeah - anbout 2 mins from there.
21:02.47CopeHi Wethrin
21:02.49JDhi Wethrin
21:03.27Leedsanyway... on the way home?  probably not... the next day? sure! :-)
21:03.42CopeThat would be great, thanks!
21:04.00CopeYou can meet the baby (assuming its appeared by then)
21:04.09Leedsit's that close?
21:04.24CopeIts very close - officially 7 days, more like any day now!
21:05.20Leedsyay! or ooh! or argh! as the case may be...
21:05.32CopeHeh! A bit of all three!
21:06.17Leedsallergic to ties?
21:06.40LeedsI know I am...
21:07.32WethrinIt's a shit job?
21:07.38Leedsmy TiVo is confusing me...
21:08.12CopeShe just saw a merchant banker on TV and how much cash her earns; I made the mistake of saying that a friend from college is now a merchant banker - same degree, same class...
21:08.32WethrinOops :)
21:08.40CopeError.
21:08.50WethrinBut merchant bankers are dull
21:08.53CopeThis is true.
21:09.25Leedsand people make bad rhyming jokes about them
21:09.49WethrinLeeds: That's true for any set of bankers
21:09.58Leedsyes
21:09.59WethrinGARGH. Download timed out!
21:10.20Copewget?
21:10.46WethrinFrom https
21:10.53WethrinDoesn't work on my system
21:11.01Leedsso update it?
21:11.42WethrinHah. Stupid Debian-type packages
21:12.16CopeWhy do you have a debian-type package?
21:12.22Wethrinfink under OS X
21:12.27CopeAh.
21:12.40CopeAs a good friend once said: use a decent OS?
21:13.21WethrinI am, thank you.
21:13.22CopeSerously though, what's fink? Is that an apt-like application?
21:13.32WethrinPity about the packaging from an inferior system
21:13.33WethrinYes.
21:13.51CopeIs that the standard tool?
21:14.00WethrinNo, it's an addon
21:14.16CopeIs there some sort of ports system available?
21:14.24WethrinHmm. It would be much nicer.
21:14.31JDdarwin-ports?
21:14.32WethrinNot have this stupid Debian-shit around :)
21:14.45Wethrin.oO(will JD rise to the troll)
21:15.12JDWethrin: no, cos I know you are already damned
21:15.15Wethrin:-)
21:15.21CopeDouble predestination.
21:17.27highburyok, re SpamAssassin, I can't find the info yet  :-(
21:20.15Wethrinhighbury: What re SA?
21:22.02highburywhen I want to train SA, can I train it with a folder containing those wrapped entries, or do I have to revert it back to the original form
21:22.38highburythat is when SA identifies a SPAM message, it seems to mime encapsulate it.
21:23.01WethrinDoes it? Hm. I think you'd need the original mail. I think it deals with RFC-822 formatted mails.
21:36.13highburyhmmm, you don't sound certain Wethrin
21:37.22WethrinI prefer to keep an element of doubt around
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22:05.49CopeRelo
22:07.59Wethrin(Emerson, Lake & Palmer)++
22:08.23Xiaoqihi
22:13.27CopeHi Xiaoqi
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22:22.01WethrinArachne? Or is that not Linux-based?
22:22.03Wethrinw3m, maybe?
22:23.11CopeI've heard good things about w3m but never played with it much; I have it, and the key-bindings aren't that friendly.
22:23.19CopeAnyone here used it much?
22:23.39WethrinIt's the standard emacs web browser
22:26.14CopeAh.
22:26.35CopeWell, I've never used emacs in my life... :o)
22:28.30WethrinYou should. It's rather powerful
22:28.50CopeI know sash loves it.
22:29.25CopeI don't want to initiate a war, but I've always used vi and never seen the need to use anything else; but I'm open-minded.
22:30.04WethrinI think it depends
22:30.21WethrinI use vi for quick edits (config files, shell scripts, etc.)
22:30.40WethrinBut emacs I find far better for larger edits - i.e. source code
22:31.26CopeAh, I see.
22:31.49Copewhat makes it more suitable for longer edits?
22:37.13WethrinIt's nice that it's not the modal editor. Plus it has lots of nifty features
22:37.21WethrinLike being able to compile without quitting
22:38.53WethrinAnd, say with LaTeX, you can both compile and view the resulting DVI
22:39.15WethrinPlus with some compilers it'll be able to jump to the error-causing lines
22:40.53CopeNice.
22:40.58WethrinOh, and you can get an IRC client for it
22:42.01Wethring'night
22:42.08Copenn Wethrin.
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23:26.35CopeHi nasrat
23:26.44nasrathi
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23:57.55Clyphoxheh
23:58.54Copew3m | zgv broke my machine :o(

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