| 00:10.02 | *** join/#gllug Marios_ (~mkoumide@24.231.225.197) |
| 00:34.40 | *** join/#gllug bloodydoc (~bloodydoc@host81-7-62-253.surfport24.v21.co.uk) |
| 00:38.04 | bloodydoc | i need to read an msword 97 file which was password protected in July 1997. i have not got the password but i know for sure that it is not a word that can not be found in *any* dictionary. is there any way to open the file without the password on *linux*? |
| 00:38.27 | bloodydoc | i DID try antiword, openoffice, staroffice and could NOT open let alone read the password protected msword97 file |
| 00:50.56 | highbury | you have to use a password cracking tool for windows most likely bloodydoc |
| 00:51.48 | bloodydoc | i do not have windoze and remember that i am after a *linux* solution! |
| 00:52.48 | highbury | then try googling for an answer, if you think there is a solution |
| 00:54.01 | bloodydoc | i DID google before asking here# |
| 00:59.47 | highbury | sorry, can help then. Other than suggesting installing dosemu or wine and running the windoze hacks. I understand Abiword will decrypt documents, but only if you have the password (google for abiword+word+decrypt) |
| 01:00.02 | highbury | s/can/&'t/ |
| 01:04.08 | highbury | anyways nn folk |
| 01:06.22 | *** join/#gllug Marios_ (~mkoumide@24.231.225.197) |
| 01:25.04 | *** join/#gllug trskz (~trskz@host217-44-114-226.range217-44.btcentralplus.com) |
| 04:37.05 | Clyphox | Cope |
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| 08:26.29 | zachary | moin |
| 08:29.03 | Cope | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:29.39 | highbury | morning |
| 09:01.47 | *** join/#gllug mozrat (~mozrat@wt-linux-01.batesuk.com) |
| 09:04.12 | Clyphox | moin |
| 09:04.15 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@host-212-158-207-148.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 09:04.16 | Clyphox | Cope |
| 09:22.36 | mozrat | Good morning fine people |
| 09:23.44 | Cope | hi mozrat! |
| 09:26.05 | Leeds | foo! |
| 09:26.56 | mozrat | bar |
| 09:27.30 | Cope | Hi Leeds |
| 09:27.42 | Leeds | morning all :-) |
| 09:28.43 | Leeds | "Whether you're Christian or just non-Jewish, everyone loves Santa Claus!" :-) (Simpsons) |
| 09:30.02 | Leeds | really? |
| 09:30.12 | mozrat | Obviously a long term resident of the "naughty list" |
| 09:30.24 | Cope | I caught him kissing Mommy underneath the mistletoe... I mean, 12 days after the birth of our son? Bastard! |
| 09:30.41 | Leeds | heh |
| 09:31.11 | Leeds | laxative in the milk? |
| 09:31.18 | Leeds | (or brandy) |
| 09:31.29 | Cope | I figure, wait until, say, February - kinda quiet season for Santa... |
| 09:31.40 | mozrat | Wheelclamp on the sleigh |
| 09:31.41 | Cope | Maybe when some reindeer etc have gone for a holiday. |
| 09:32.20 | Cope | Then infiltrate his camp, sabotage some of his vehicles, then pin him down, shave half his beard, one eyebrow, and pull his toenails out. |
| 09:32.33 | Cope | That'll teach him. |
| 09:32.35 | Leeds | ugh |
| 09:33.00 | mozrat | I hope your covering Williams eyes |
| 09:33.17 | Cope | William is eating (again) |
| 09:33.31 | Cope | ibot William |
| 09:33.33 | | Cope: parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about |
| 09:33.38 | Cope | Ah! |
| 09:33.59 | Cope | ibot William is either eating, or sleeping, or having his nappy changed. |
| 09:34.00 | | Cope: okay |
| 09:34.08 | Cope | ibot william |
| 09:34.12 | | hmm... william is either eating, or sleeping, or having his nappy changed. |
| 09:34.12 | Leeds | ibot William also types badly |
| 09:34.18 | | Leeds: I don't know, could you explain it? |
| 09:34.41 | Cope | ibot william is also bad at typing.\ |
| 09:34.43 | | Cope: okay |
| 09:34.48 | Cope | ibot william |
| 09:34.49 | | william is probably either eating, or sleeping, or having his nappy changed. bad at typing.\ |
| 09:35.16 | Cope | Hmm... can you remove a trailing character from ibot's data? |
| 09:35.24 | Leeds | I'd say start again |
| 09:35.37 | Cope | How do you reset ibot's knowledge of william? |
| 09:36.06 | Leeds | ibot forget William |
| 09:36.17 | Leeds | or not |
| 09:36.23 | Cope | man ibot |
| 09:36.27 | Leeds | ibot no, William is probably either eating, or sleeping, or having his nappy changed |
| 09:36.29 | | okay, Leeds |
| 09:36.39 | Leeds | ibot William is also bad at typing |
| 09:36.41 | | okay, Leeds |
| 09:36.45 | Leeds | ibot william |
| 09:36.46 | | i heard william is probably either eating, or sleeping, or having his nappy changed, or bad at typing |
| 09:37.40 | Leeds | apparently William is too old for the "forget" command to work |
| 09:39.29 | Cope | ibot William |
| 09:39.30 | | it has been said that william is probably either eating, or sleeping, or having his nappy changed, or bad at typing |
| 09:44.18 | Cope | ibot twisted |
| 09:44.20 | | methinks twisted is at http://twistedmatrix.com/ |
| 09:46.35 | Leeds | woo! |
| 09:46.50 | Leeds | Firefly DVD arrived! :-) |
| 09:47.11 | nasrat | Leeds: firefly is v. good |
| 09:47.25 | Cope | ibot firefly |
| 09:47.27 | | i haven't a clue, Cope |
| 09:47.35 | Leeds | nasrat: I know - that's why I bought it from Canadia... |
| 09:47.37 | Cope | Nor have I, ibot. |
| 09:48.02 | Cope | ibot google for ibot |
| 09:48.04 | Cope | lol |
| 09:48.13 | Cope | ibot sorry |
| 09:48.14 | | Cope: I don't know, could you explain it? |
| 09:48.25 | Cope | ibot google for firefly dvd |
| 09:48.35 | Leeds | hmm... they were... creative on the Customs declaration - hence no charges :-) |
| 09:49.18 | highbury | leeds, is that the complete box set of Firefly with missing episodes? |
| 09:49.41 | Leeds | highbury: yes indeedy... although the missing eps have been shown in the UK at least a couple of times now |
| 09:50.13 | highbury | ahh. wondered about that |
| 09:51.12 | Leeds | yes... I paid a little more than 12 Canadian Dollars for it :-) |
| 10:04.00 | *** join/#gllug wethrin (~dankolb@ipv6.eco.li) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 10:09.38 | highbury | hmmm,, $35 +pp |
| 10:11.10 | *** join/#gllug irvined (~irvined@adsl-239-121.as15758.net) |
| 10:11.24 | highbury | would kinda preferred a UK DVD version |
| 10:22.40 | Leeds | there is a UK one coming some time next year... |
| 10:23.00 | Leeds | and it cost me 55 CA$ |
| 10:23.56 | Leeds | which comes to 22.82 gbp... including their middle rank of shipping - it shipped on Thursday, arrived this morning, which I think is bloody decent |
| 10:23.59 | nasrat | Leeds: hmm, would you have a link for uk release |
| 10:26.09 | Leeds | http://www.r2-dvd.org/article.jsp?sectionId=3&articleId=6087 |
| 10:27.14 | Leeds | unless you have region issues (and why would you?) you're as well to just import one now... I don't think it's likely to be much cheaper than 23 quid when released in the UK, particularly not for online shopping including shipping |
| 10:28.09 | Cope | How do you work out what the maximum processor is that can go on your motherboard? |
| 10:30.30 | Leeds | RTFM? |
| 10:31.26 | Cope | Thanks Leeds; that didn't occur to me. |
| 10:31.59 | Cope | Oh - wait a moment.... |
| 10:32.18 | Cope | I don't *have* the fucking manual; nor can I find it online, hence the question. |
| 10:36.18 | zachary | Cope: Bus speed X clock multiplier. Find those two bits of info. |
| 10:37.03 | Cope | Thanks zachary; I know the bus speed, so just need to find the clock multiplier. |
| 10:37.23 | zachary | what motherboard do you have? |
| 10:38.20 | Cope | Its a jetway - I think its called a 133KT but I may be confusing it; anyway its a socket A |
| 10:38.47 | Cope | I can't get to the box easily, otherwise I'd take the lid off and find out. |
| 10:40.47 | Cope | Ah... 133KT is an oem rebrand of a jetway board... progress. |
| 10:43.19 | Cope | By bcm |
| 10:45.46 | zachary | what speed is the current processor? |
| 10:45.56 | Cope | 900 duron |
| 10:47.43 | Cope | anyway - off to do laundry now - back in an hour or so :o) |
| 11:10.28 | *** join/#gllug Jenson (~jenson@64.246.28.105) |
| 11:10.55 | Jenson | morning |
| 11:59.54 | highbury | Leeds, was it cheaper buying/shipping from Canada rather than US? |
| 12:26.01 | Leeds | ibot change 35 usd to gbp |
| 12:26.38 | Leeds | assuming Amazon US charge more than $3 for shipping to the UK... yes, cheaper from Canada... |
| 12:26.51 | Leeds | to be honest, it was just one of a long list of recommended places - I picked one and went with it |
| 12:27.15 | Leeds | and it's always good to add new countries to the "places I've bought from online" list :-) |
| 13:21.10 | Cope | minus the hour and a bit for doing laundry. |
| 13:32.09 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~rc112576@beryllium.eu.sun.com) |
| 13:50.13 | *** join/#gllug zachary (~zachary@host81-129-43-193.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 14:38.38 | *** join/#gllug evangineer (~moc@public1-seve3-4-cust13.lond.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 14:44.56 | wethrin | Good afternoon all |
| 14:47.17 | irvined | Hi wethrin |
| 14:48.06 | wethrin | How goes? |
| 14:48.14 | wethrin | Still working until tomorrow? |
| 14:48.29 | Cope | Woo |
| 14:48.53 | evangineer | How was the pub meet yesterday? |
| 14:49.08 | wethrin | Lack of people turning up. |
| 14:49.16 | wethrin | But fantastic cider, mead and food. |
| 14:49.18 | murble | who didn't turn up? |
| 14:49.22 | wethrin | You. |
| 14:49.47 | wethrin | Cope. Zach. |
| 14:49.51 | wethrin | Lots of people :) |
| 14:50.00 | murble | i might get beer today or not. |
| 14:50.14 | evangineer | I had my head down, getting IP Masquerading working with my NTL cablemodem. |
| 14:50.30 | wethrin | Bah. Alcohol is more fun than IP Masq |
| 14:50.36 | murble | should be relativily trivial if the cablemodem works. |
| 14:51.22 | evangineer | Yup, it just works, exactly as described in /usr/doc/Linux-HOWTOs/IP-Masquerade-HOWTO |
| 14:51.38 | wethrin | Good plan. |
| 14:51.48 | wethrin | Eek. A Howto that actually works? |
| 14:51.53 | wethrin | What *is* the world coming to? :) |
| 14:52.10 | nasrat | wethrin: was it spendy? |
| 14:52.23 | nasrat | mead and cider good |
| 14:52.24 | Cope | After a week of playing with *bsd I'm wondering why more people don't use it; its awesome. |
| 14:52.30 | wethrin | nasrat: Unfortunately the food was uncheap. |
| 14:52.37 | wethrin | Cope: It doesn't have the marketing behind Linux :) |
| 14:52.43 | wethrin | nasrat: Yes, very. |
| 14:53.46 | murble | old people. |
| 14:53.48 | wethrin | Happy Birthday for tomorrow! |
| 14:54.09 | evangineer | wethrin: the howto is very well written and works perfectly with Slackware |
| 14:54.24 | Cope | Ah... Slackware... mmmm |
| 14:54.36 | wethrin | Mmm. Slackware. :) |
| 14:54.41 | evangineer | Happy birthday manana, Cope |
| 14:54.47 | Cope | Thank you! |
| 14:55.42 | wethrin | Whenever I've looked at the howtos, they tended to be rather useless. Many years out of date (and hence inaccurate), or just plainly inaccurate. Or badly written. |
| 14:55.57 | Cope | Shockingly written. |
| 14:56.07 | wethrin | Yes. |
| 14:56.28 | Cope | I keep meaning to put some how-tos of stuff I've done on my website; as I can actually write. |
| 14:56.34 | evangineer | The one for IP Masquerading is probably the exception that proves the rule then. |
| 14:56.37 | wethrin | By people who don't even seem to have passed GCSE English. |
| 14:56.44 | wethrin | Or, maybe even primary school English :) |
| 14:57.45 | Cope | Maybe fewer people, more dedicated, better quality control? |
| 14:57.49 | irvined | wethrin, not bad, just doing a big backup, data is moving like mollasses and i want to go to the bull ring before xmas and buy some stuff |
| 14:57.52 | wethrin | Yes :) |
| 14:58.04 | wethrin | Go while the backup is going |
| 14:58.18 | Cope | irvined: Birmingham? |
| 14:58.30 | irvined | Cope, yeah, :( |
| 14:58.30 | wethrin | And the BSD people don't use the abomination that is info pages |
| 14:59.04 | Cope | irvined: buses are your friend; re: getting to london; albeit slow, but fantastic value, and you can read on the way. |
| 14:59.31 | murble | Cope: but not if you want to go to Stansted. |
| 14:59.33 | irvined | yeah, busses are nice from here doesnt take that long. |
| 14:59.41 | irvined | Yeah, they go to all the other airports though. |
| 15:00.19 | wethrin | Cope: There's a Wetherspoons pub |
| 15:00.43 | wethrin | And the theatre isn't bad either |
| 18:11.32 | *** join/#gllug ibot (ibot@c-24-1-99-18.client.comcast.net) |
| 18:11.32 | *** topic/#gllug is Greater London LUG. Next meeting: Saturday 24th January, Next Pub Meet: Saturday 3rd January, Web Site: http://www.gllug.org.uk |
| 18:11.48 | *** join/#gllug ar (~ar@du-069-0169.access.clara.net) |
| 18:13.56 | evangineer | ibot 42.95 * 1.175 |
| 18:13.57 | | 50.46625 |
| 18:15.40 | evangineer | ibot where can i find boas |
| 18:15.41 | | evangineer: i don't know |
| 18:16.32 | Leeds | ibot google for boas |
| 18:16.54 | wethrin | Grrrrrrrrrr. Swerver was rebooted. |
| 18:16.59 | wethrin | (old server, that is) |
| 18:17.33 | evangineer | Leeds: cheers |
| 18:17.39 | wethrin | Hrmpf. And lots of qmail processes start up, as mail starts being dealt with. |
| 18:17.41 | Leeds | np :-) |
| 18:17.46 | Leeds | argh! |
| 18:18.55 | formi | Boas, is a greeting, means something like "good ones" as a kind of "best wishes" |
| 18:18.59 | jason_ukfsn | ibot where is London? |
| 18:19.01 | | jason_ukfsn: I think you lost me on that one |
| 18:19.25 | jason_ukfsn | ibot I'm glad I don't need directions from you - you're useless! |
| 18:19.27 | | jason_ukfsn: i haven't a clue |
| 18:19.47 | wethrin | ibot London is where the best LUG around is. |
| 18:19.49 | | okay, wethrin |
| 18:19.52 | wethrin | ibot london |
| 18:19.53 | | i guess london is where the best LUG around is. |
| 18:21.01 | jason_ukfsn | OK I need to go to Halfords. Have fun folks |
| 18:21.03 | Leeds | seeya |
| 18:21.20 | Leeds | ibot where is london is <reply>Down south and full of pansies |
| 18:21.21 | | I think you lost me on that one, Leeds |
| 18:21.33 | Leeds | ibot "where is london?" is <reply>Down south and full of pansies |
| 18:21.35 | | Leeds: okay |
| 18:21.41 | Leeds | ibot where is London? |
| 18:21.42 | | well, london is where the best LUG around is. |
| 18:21.51 | Leeds | ibot where |
| 18:21.53 | | wish i knew, Leeds |
| 18:21.56 | Leeds | hmm |
| 18:22.17 | Cope|Nap | ibot where is london? |
| 18:22.18 | | from memory, london is where the best LUG around is. |
| 18:22.24 | Cope|Nap | Hmm |
| 18:22.55 | evangineer | ibot Beaconsfield is Leeds' stomping ground |
| 18:22.56 | | okay, evangineer |
| 18:23.09 | Leeds | evangineer: um, duh... |
| 18:23.27 | Cope|Nap | ibot leeds |
| 18:23.29 | | methinks leeds is a bloke called Richard in the UK or spending too much time playing with expensive electronic toys or a genius or whatever you want him to be, or nekkid, or a place in the norf, or a rubbish footie team |
| 18:23.49 | Leeds | not all of them are true at any one time |
| 18:23.53 | evangineer | ibot where is Leeds |
| 18:23.54 | | rumour has it, leeds is a bloke called Richard in the UK or spending too much time playing with expensive electronic toys or a genius or whatever you want him to be, or nekkid, or a place in the norf, or a rubbish footie team |
| 18:24.08 | Leeds | ibot who is ppp |
| 18:24.09 | | [ppp] http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/PPPHowto or at http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/PPP-HOWTO/x1188.html or the ppp user in Familiar 0.6 seems to be PPP, not ppp |
| 18:24.25 | Cope|Nap | ibot william |
| 18:24.26 | | rumour has it, william is probably either eating, or sleeping, or having his nappy changed, or bad at typing |
| 18:24.26 | Leeds | yeah, he just ignores the question part |
| 18:25.06 | Leeds | has his typing improved at all? |
| 18:25.21 | Cope|Nap | He still isn't very precise with his feet. |
| 18:25.49 | Cope|Nap | Oh... breaking news: William is hungry and is going to eat some more. |
| 18:26.12 | Cope|Nap | int? |
| 18:26.18 | wethrin | struct? |
| 18:26.24 | Cope|Nap | hbeskmklok klwewedsa\ |
| 18:26.24 | wethrin | char? Array of char? |
| 18:26.28 | evangineer | See you leeds |
| 18:26.33 | wethrin | I THINK WE NEED TO BE TOLD :) |
| 18:26.34 | Leeds | time_t |
| 18:26.36 | Leeds | duh |
| 18:26.57 | Leeds | come on, it's practically Hungarian |
| 18:26.57 | wethrin | time_t home; |
| 18:27.13 | Cope|Nap | Leeds: that was 'hello leeds' from William's foot. |
| 18:28.09 | evangineer | Cope|Nap: lost a little something in translation, I think. |
| 18:29.13 | evangineer | ibot william# |
| 18:29.16 | | evangineer: wish i knew |
| 18:29.21 | evangineer | ibot william |
| 18:29.22 | | i heard william is probably either eating, or sleeping, or having his nappy changed, or bad at typing |
| 18:29.35 | *** join/#gllug zimm (zimm@host81-130-30-26.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 18:30.26 | Leeds | evangineer: the important missing link is that William is Cope's newborn son |
| 18:31.43 | evangineer | I knew that. I was just checking out whether ibot had learnt anything new about William during this session. |
| 18:31.49 | evangineer | ibot William |
| 18:31.50 | | extra, extra, read all about it, william is probably either eating, or sleeping, or having his nappy changed, or bad at typing |
| 18:32.02 | evangineer | like so |
| 18:32.17 | wethrin | Well, ibot does accept new information. |
| 18:32.23 | wethrin | Which makes it better than most Debian users. |
| 18:32.48 | evangineer | :) |
| 18:34.32 | evangineer | Talking about Debian, what do ppl think of Perens's UserLinux project? |
| 18:35.28 | formi | evangineer: why not |
| 18:36.38 | Cope|Nap | ibot userlinux |
| 18:36.39 | | Cope|Nap: I don't know, could you explain it? |
| 18:36.44 | evangineer | Exactly, a community-based certified distro has got to be worthwhile |
| 18:36.46 | wethrin | www.userlinux.org |
| 18:36.51 | Leeds | only Perens has the answer |
| 18:37.17 | wethrin | evangineer: Worthwhile, possibly. Will businesses want to bet their company on a Debian project? :) |
| 18:37.20 | wethrin | 'nother matter |
| 18:37.52 | wethrin | Ask for help on a mailing list, and you'd probably be told to put testing/* in your apt sources list :) |
| 18:38.08 | Cope|Nap | </diss debian> |
| 18:38.56 | Cope|Nap | wethrin: s/debian/$non_commercial_*nix ? |
| 18:38.57 | evangineer | One of the ideas is that support is provided by local specialists, ie guys like us |
| 18:39.18 | murble | wethrin: i doubt it. |
| 18:39.32 | murble | telling people to put testing etc is a bad move if they do not know what they are otherwise doing. |
| 18:39.50 | wethrin | I agree |
| 18:40.07 | wethrin | Well, using Debian (or Slackware, for that matter) if you don't know what you're doing is generally a bad idea |
| 18:41.35 | evangineer | I presume the apt sources list for UserLinux won't point to debian by default. |
| 18:42.34 | evangineer | Rather to UserLinux's own archive of packages |
| 18:44.03 | evangineer | wethrin: Lindows, Xandros, Lycoris, Libranet all show that Debian can be tamed for the purposes for end-users |
| 18:44.12 | Cope|Nap | "Linux distribution works poorly as a profit-center." - totally undefended statement. |
| 18:44.58 | Cope|Nap | I doubt Matt Szulik would agree. |
| 18:59.05 | *** join/#gllug ibot (ibot@c-24-1-99-18.client.comcast.net) |
| 18:59.05 | *** topic/#gllug is Greater London LUG. Next meeting: Saturday 24th January, Next Pub Meet: Saturday 3rd January, Web Site: http://www.gllug.org.uk |
| 19:01.45 | formi | well guys |
| 19:01.47 | formi | im off |
| 19:01.55 | formi | not that I have said much |
| 19:02.11 | Cope | bye |
| 19:02.22 | formi | for those of you who like/celebrate these things, nice Christmas |
| 19:02.31 | Cope | humbug |
| 19:02.59 | formi | after raiding the cellar |
| 19:03.11 | *** part/#gllug formi (~formi@242.Red-195-55-94.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:03.29 | Cope | Software raid? |
| 19:03.57 | evangineer | more like wine, I think! |
| 19:04.28 | evangineer | Cope: anything catch your eye in particular? |
| 19:04.50 | Cope | evangineer: enough to subscribe to the list; its a subject that interests me. |
| 19:05.24 | wethrin | Foodtime! |
| 19:05.49 | evangineer | Cope: I'm not on the list, but I do keep an eye on it. |
| 19:06.10 | evangineer | I have an apple doughnut, but I'm not sharing! |
| 19:07.29 | Cope | I think its very interesting; from a philosophical perspective I am very much in the Debian/Free Software camp; However, whether this can ever have a wholesale application at an enterprise level is a big question. |
| 19:08.57 | Cope | Even redhat - its turnover has grown every year, but last time I looked it hadn't made a profit! |
| 19:09.52 | evangineer | That's the point though, UserLinux in itself is not a profitmaking endeavour. |
| 19:10.04 | Cope | So the question is whether it is possible to have a large-scale, commercially desirable linux. |
| 19:10.20 | Cope | Userlinux looks like it is trying to open this up for serious discussion. |
| 19:12.18 | evangineer | An enterprise linux distro owned by a single vendor, would leave us with another Microsoft sooner or later. |
| 19:13.03 | Cope | evangineer: Perhaps... it depends how seriously you take your ethics/philosophy; |
| 19:13.59 | evangineer | Very! UserLinux will be a consortium, not a single vendor. |
| 19:15.17 | Cope | I'm personally unconvinced by the business model; I fear that CEOs and other decision-makers will go with a known name, and be prepared to pay for it in the (false?) hope that that will give them some kind of security. |
| 19:16.38 | Cope | I would expect to see Redhat and SuSE/Novell taking up a smallish part of the enterprise market, but with commercial unix and microsoft being the big players. |
| 19:16.52 | evangineer | The folks that Bruce is talking are willing to pony up 1 million USD a year for the maintenance of the UserLinux distro |
| 19:16.57 | Cope | Could userlinux make a dent in that? Maybe. |
| 19:17.01 | Cope | Probably not. |
| 19:17.21 | Cope | evanginer: 1M USD is peanuts. |
| 19:17.51 | Cope | Its 750,000 pounds - a small corner shop in Kilburn might turn over that in a year. |
| 19:18.15 | evangineer | Yes, but it's enough to get the thing started and once it gets going other industry groups could get with the program. |
| 19:18.51 | Cope | true |
| 19:20.32 | evangineer | It would be a useful option for those people who have been pushing Red Hat for years and now have to explain to their customers that they are going to have to pay a heck of a lot more for support. |
| 19:26.07 | Cope | yes |
| 19:28.18 | evangineer | Time will only tell if it will be successful, but it's certainly worth the try! |
| 19:30.08 | Cope | I wonder what the *bsd guys think/aim wrt the enterprise market? |
| 19:31.08 | evangineer | Good question, I haven't seen that much discussion from the *bsd perspective |
| 19:32.35 | wethrin | They're less vocal :) |
| 19:37.38 | *** join/#gllug evangineer (~moc@public1-seve3-4-cust13.lond.broadband.ntl.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:37.38 | *** join/#gllug Cope (~sanelson@wibbleworld.demon.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:37.38 | *** join/#gllug stephen (stephen@windsor.org.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:37.55 | wethrin | wb splitters |
| 19:39.34 | Cope | I guess my perspective is skewed, but if I was providing an enterprise solution I would base it on slackware, or a *bsd, and support it with well-trained staff. Maybe I miss the point. |
| 19:40.10 | evangineer | Cope: I think the main thing that Red Hat is selling is that it is certified by Oracle and other important ISVs |
| 19:40.37 | wethrin | Anything can get Oracle certified, if you give Oracle enough money |
| 19:41.12 | Cope | Yes; I suppose I need to think from the perspective of the boss. |
| 19:41.12 | evangineer | Cope: I agree with you about enterprise solutions. |
| 19:42.50 | evangineer | I've done my own little feasibility study of slackware for enterprise deployment. So far, it's looking good! |
| 19:42.57 | Cope | If I put my Dad in the role of the ceo to whom we want to sell out enterprise solution... |
| 19:43.14 | Cope | he would want a name he trusted, certification, proven track record. |
| 19:43.53 | evangineer | Proven track record: ten years of slackware enough? |
| 19:44.06 | Cope | He would be prepared to spend more money on microsoft because he knows it and because he has seen/believes the fud. |
| 19:44.19 | Cope | How would I win him around? |
| 19:44.38 | evangineer | Security issues? |
| 19:44.47 | Cope | well... it would have to be on several levels - commercial sense, support, viablilty etc |
| 19:44.55 | evangineer | Increasing licensing costs? |
| 19:45.06 | wethrin | Well....Linux+related software has got plenty of security issues |
| 19:46.08 | evangineer | Well they don't suffer from outlook viruses for one. |
| 19:46.47 | Cope | wethrin: I wonder how much your average ceo knows about linux security issues? |
| 19:47.15 | wethrin | evangineer: Don't use Outlook, then. Ensure that as a corporate standard. And suddenly a large number of security problems go away. |
| 19:47.35 | Cope | My dad, for example, thinks that Linux is probably more secure than windows, but he doesn't trust it - its built by amateurs and it doesn't cost enough. |
| 19:47.49 | wethrin | Umm. RedHat costs more than Windows :) |
| 19:48.01 | wethrin | Specially for education |
| 19:49.50 | wethrin | And a large amount of the code isn't built by amateurs any more - they're paid to do it |
| 19:50.05 | Cope | Sure - I'm talking about perception. |
| 19:50.09 | wethrin | True |
| 19:50.15 | evangineer | wethrin: you beat me to the point. |
| 19:50.22 | wethrin | It'd be interesting to know the perception of BSDs, though. |
| 19:50.32 | Cope | Very interesting. |
| 19:50.45 | wethrin | I think there are more pure volunteers on that compared to people paid to work on the code, compared to Linux. |
| 19:51.07 | evangineer | I'm having a look at daemonnews.org for BSD vs the enterprise. |
| 19:52.03 | Cope | I think I struggle because I can visualise small companies, and even the occasional big company using linux or a bsd; but when I think of bigger companies, multinationals, etc; I can't see them buying Steve's slackware solution. |
| 19:52.24 | wethrin | I dunno. SSS has a nice ring to it. |
| 19:52.33 | wethrin | Slackware isn't a very professional name |
| 19:52.43 | wethrin | (i.e. it doesn't conjure the right image that you'd want) |
| 19:52.55 | evangineer | Here's an article from may 2002: http://ezine.daemonnews.org/200205/editorial.html |
| 19:53.02 | Cope | For those types of company, you need men in suits, careful business cases, superb branding, professionalism. |
| 19:53.10 | Cope | slack, as you say, doesn't offer that. |
| 19:53.19 | Cope | nor does any debian-based solution, imo. |
| 19:53.26 | wethrin | However, a Slack by any other name... |
| 19:53.36 | Cope | SuSE however certainly does; as does RedHat. |
| 19:54.19 | wethrin | SUSE </pedant> |
| 19:54.30 | Cope | Ok :o) |
| 19:54.37 | wethrin | They rebranded a few months ago |
| 19:54.46 | Cope | I know, I pitched Seibt. |
| 19:55.08 | evangineer | What did you pitch him? |
| 19:55.42 | Cope | 5 minute corporate profile to be broadcast alongside sybase and microsoft. |
| 19:57.23 | evangineer | Mmm - Sybase. Transact-SQL is quite tolerable |
| 19:57.41 | Cope | But back to the point; -if- the commercial aspect of userlinux could be well sold; and the decision makers made to believe they can get more for less; and if the branding was done in such a way as to hide the seemingly amateur foundation (debian), then just maybe it stands a chance. |
| 19:58.03 | Cope | What do you think, wethrin? |
| 19:58.06 | evangineer | Stored procedures, I've written a few. |
| 19:58.36 | wethrin | Cope: As long as it doesn't have all the vocal political people, it might work. |
| 19:59.15 | wethrin | It's off-putting to have salivating evangelists at your doorstep |
| 19:59.26 | evangineer | Yeah, UserLinux is about pragmatism in my view. |
| 20:00.06 | evangineer | The true believers are already using Debian anyway. |
| 20:00.10 | wethrin | Well, you would think. Although Bruce did head up the Debian project, so it might not be *entirely* pragmatic. |
| 20:00.28 | wethrin | evangineer: That's only because they haven't progressed to Slackware |
| 20:00.53 | Cope | wethrin: A friend of mine once said, as I tried to tell him not to reinstall windows for his business (again) and to let me set up a linux system. "stop it, you're like a Jehovahs witness" |
| 20:01.14 | wethrin | Yep. That tends to put people off Linux. |
| 20:01.54 | wethrin | And now Linux often has that stigma attached than anyone who starts recommending it over Windows is often more of an evangelist than a pragmatist |
| 20:01.56 | evangineer | wethrin: As I'm a Slackware user, I couldn't possibly comment on that! |
| 20:02.12 | wethrin | evangineer: Excellent. We'll get you onto BSD soon ;-) |
| 20:03.27 | Cope | my bsd exprience has radically changed how I view linux |
| 20:03.48 | wethrin | In what way? |
| 20:03.52 | evangineer | I do have FreeBSD 4.8 on a DVD lying around. |
| 20:04.32 | Cope | wethrin: bear with me being slow - i have a william |
| 20:04.37 | wethrin | It's okay |
| 20:05.13 | Cope | for any pure server, I think I would use bsd. |
| 20:05.24 | wethrin | Definitely. |
| 20:05.38 | wethrin | Unless there's a really good reason for using Linux |
| 20:05.52 | Cope | for a more general machine, or windows competitor, I would use linux |
| 20:06.05 | Cope | but probably not recommend slackware |
| 20:06.08 | wethrin | FreeBSD makes a very nice desktop system |
| 20:06.26 | Cope | gentoo now seems pointless, |
| 20:06.46 | wethrin | I've always thought that >:-) |
| 20:06.46 | Cope | slack is bsd without ports |
| 20:06.51 | evangineer | wethrin: Desktop FreeBSD? |
| 20:06.59 | Cope | and a less secure kernel |
| 20:06.59 | wethrin | Yep. Even with BSD-style init scripts |
| 20:07.03 | Cope | nod |
| 20:07.06 | wethrin | evangineer: Yeah. |
| 20:07.12 | wethrin | I used it at ex-ork place |
| 20:07.15 | evangineer | Cope: packware http://packware.intersec.pl |
| 20:07.47 | Cope | I'd recommed debian/testing for desktop and general use. |
| 20:07.51 | wethrin | I wouldn't. |
| 20:07.57 | evangineer | With packware, slack is bsd including ports |
| 20:08.08 | Cope | brb - nappy |
| 20:08.09 | murble | how do you judge security of a kernel? |
| 20:08.32 | wethrin | See how often it's mentioned on Bugtraq with security problems |
| 20:08.44 | wethrin | And you can always do code audits. |
| 20:09.57 | evangineer | Bloody NTL! |
| 20:10.46 | evangineer | I hardly use them for email, but I'm getting errors about a locked mail box in Sylpheed-Claws |
| 20:10.58 | wethrin | D'oh |
| 20:11.02 | wethrin | I don't use NTL |
| 20:11.32 | evangineer | It's complaining about pop.ntlworld.com |
| 20:11.41 | wethrin | POP goes the NTL... |
| 20:12.37 | evangineer | Thank god, I don't rely on their pop server. |
| 20:13.49 | wethrin | I rely on my own systems. Which is fine until some MUPPET reboots them |
| 20:13.56 | wethrin | (well, at least the one in the US) |
| 20:14.52 | zachary | wethrin, Yea, Damn Americans! |
| 20:14.54 | evangineer | I'm not totally NTL independent yet. I'm still using their SMTP servers for now, but I'm going to install postfix. |
| 20:16.13 | evangineer | Only thing NTL is good for is bandwidth. |
| 20:17.33 | Cope | My dad is a senior ntl boffin. |
| 20:17.49 | Cope | s/boffin/manager |
| 20:18.02 | Cope | ntl sucks badly. |
| 20:18.11 | evangineer | How is the ntl money sitch? |
| 20:18.16 | Cope | fine |
| 20:18.58 | evangineer | But they are still cost-cutting on the infrastructure from what I can see. |
| 20:19.07 | Cope | but also spending elsewhere |
| 20:19.20 | Cope | every organisation is involved in a continual business integration project |
| 20:20.37 | evangineer | ntl also don't support linux |
| 20:21.15 | Cope | neither do bt, freeserve, aol, telewest |
| 20:22.01 | evangineer | true, force9 actually has linux-specific docs |
| 20:22.37 | evangineer | came in handy when I was still using dial-up |
| 20:25.14 | Cope | aol is awesome for linux dialup! |
| 20:25.41 | Cope | on 24/7 and very stable. |
| 20:26.21 | wethrin | ibot: calculate 24/7u |
| 20:26.26 | | wethrin: i don't know |
| 20:26.26 | wethrin | ibot: calculate 24/7 |
| 20:26.27 | | wethrin: are you using Windows? |
| 20:26.27 | Cope | I used to have connect times of more that a week |
| 20:26.45 | wethrin | ibot is lagged |
| 20:26.47 | | wethrin: no idea |
| 20:26.56 | wethrin | Cope: Not 24/7 of a day, then :) |
| 20:27.51 | Cope | Its been a while since I was on dial-up |
| 20:28.58 | Cope | ibot google for linux aol ppp |
| 20:29.16 | Cope | pengaol |
| 20:29.26 | Cope | ibot google for pengaol |
| 20:29.43 | Cope | There you go :o) |
| 20:30.07 | Cope | iirc the source fits on a floppy! |
| 20:30.18 | wethrin | It's that big? |
| 20:30.48 | Cope | What do you know that is smaller than a floppy? |
| 20:31.24 | evangineer | I've just turned off checking of the ntl mail account. It was too irritating. |
| 20:32.07 | Cope | What I meant was I could do a base install, then shove in the pengaol floppy, get connected and bingo! :o) |
| 20:32.35 | evangineer | You can get a lot on a floppy, see bering at http://leaf.sf.net. |
| 20:35.11 | evangineer | The Boss Problem http://www.daemonnews.org/199902/bossprob.html |
| 20:35.41 | wethrin | Cope: Half a floppy |
| 20:38.41 | evangineer | The Boss Problem article presents the sort of objections that a boss might have to BSDs and Slackware. |
| 20:39.25 | wethrin | Yes. Well, non-Windows in general. |
| 20:39.29 | wethrin | Even if it's Solaris |
| 20:39.40 | evangineer | A number of them reflect the arguments that Cope has already made. |
| 20:40.45 | wethrin | Yeah. |
| 20:40.57 | wethrin | The support argument is often the one most used |
| 20:41.12 | evangineer | Solaris and now Red Hat have achieved some level of corporate acceptance. Comparatively speaking the BSDs and Slackware are still in the wilderness. |
| 20:41.39 | wethrin | Solaris always has, though. |
| 20:41.43 | wethrin | Given that it's a Sun product |
| 20:41.55 | wethrin | Irix has also had corporate acceptance |
| 20:42.27 | evangineer | LUGs are a potential source of local expertise and support. |
| 20:42.35 | Cope | indeed |
| 20:42.35 | wethrin | Yes, but unofficial |
| 20:42.41 | Cope | quite |
| 20:42.44 | wethrin | You can't call Gllug on the other end of a phone |
| 20:42.51 | Cope | That's the problem. |
| 20:43.05 | wethrin | .oO(0870 number, which cycles between Gllug volunteers' phones) |
| 20:43.33 | evangineer | GLLUGCare at your service! |
| 20:43.44 | Cope | I believe that give me a team of graduates of any discipline and a few months intensive training, I could produce a first rate tech-support network. |
| 20:43.55 | wethrin | "Have you tried rebooting?" |
| 20:44.03 | Cope | format c: |
| 20:44.11 | Cope | Your problems are now gone. |
| 20:44.16 | evangineer | rm -rf / |
| 20:45.09 | Cope | I once ran fdisk on the computers in the lobby of the trocadero after an argument with some of the staff. |
| 20:45.17 | wethrin | Heh |
| 20:45.34 | Cope | 3 computers destroyed in a few minutes. |
| 20:46.30 | Cope | Lesson: don't piss off a geek with tomsrtbt in his pocket. |
| 20:46.39 | Cope | Unless you have bolted down the bios. |
| 20:46.41 | evangineer | The BOFH within! |
| 20:46.48 | Cope | which no-one does. |
| 20:49.37 | Cope | I installed SUSE [ ;o) ] + grub on my dad's computer once, dual-booted with windows, to prove a point: He said his system was secure because it was password protected. |
| 20:49.45 | *** join/#gllug irvined (~irvined@adsl-239-121.as15758.net) |
| 20:49.49 | wethrin | Heh. |
| 20:50.03 | Cope | When he came home and found me spodding away on linux, he agreed that maybe I had a point. |
| 20:50.46 | Cope | Does google still run on linux? |
| 20:51.00 | murble | yes |
| 20:51.04 | Cope | btw - I discovered www.google.com/bsd by accident |
| 20:51.07 | Cope | v cool |
| 20:51.47 | wethrin | :) |
| 20:52.46 | zachary | well there is www.google.com/linux and unfortunately www.google.com/microsoft |
| 20:52.47 | Cope | I was intrigued to find the bsd daemon advertising smoking patches in bond street tube. |
| 20:52.54 | wethrin | :) |
| 20:53.14 | Cope | zachary: I knew about /linux - so I tried /bsd |
| 20:53.45 | Cope | At last!! William is asleep! |
| 20:53.57 | Cope | If I move him, he'll wake up.... |
| 20:54.04 | Cope | (he's in his sling) |
| 20:54.24 | *** join/#gllug jason_ukfsn (~jason@public1-watf3-5-cust248.lond.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 20:54.42 | Cope | So that was 3 hours. |
| 20:54.47 | jason_ukfsn | hey all |
| 20:54.52 | evangineer | jason_ukfsn: how was Halfords? |
| 20:54.56 | Cope | 17:58 -> Cope|Nap |
| 20:55.07 | Cope | Hey jason_ukfsn :o) |
| 20:55.32 | jason_ukfsn | evangineer: I got what I needed (ignition cable). |
| 20:55.44 | zachary | evening jason_ukfsn |
| 20:55.49 | jason_ukfsn | now I just need to clean the carb in my car and see if that fixes the cutting out problem. |
| 20:56.25 | Cope | jason_ukfsn: and sorry, no I don't know who would do it cheaply, apart from me. |
| 20:56.28 | jason_ukfsn | Tomorrow I'll be driving a friend's car - taking him to airport |
| 20:56.40 | jason_ukfsn | and you don't want to do it :) |
| 20:57.09 | Cope | jason_ukfsn: I'd do it, but I never have before. I'm sure I could though. |
| 20:57.53 | Cope | jason_ukfsn: And given that your car is probably mission critical, I would have thought you wouldn't risk it. |
| 20:58.37 | jason_ukfsn | it's not mission critical - it's 17 years old and just about running. I bought it for £100 off ebay at the end of Sept and it's done what I needed from it. Everything now is bonus time. |
| 20:58.49 | Cope | Awesome. |
| 20:59.23 | murble | jason_ukfsn: how much MOT do you have left? |
| 20:59.43 | jason_ukfsn | murble: mumble, mumble... |
| 21:00.07 | wethrin | Cope: Isn't your son a bit young to be put to work? |
| 21:00.35 | Cope | wethrin: If they can crawl, they're in the right position. |
| 21:00.37 | murble | wethrin: small hands might be helpful here.. |
| 21:02.39 | jason_ukfsn | the MOT is due - it wont pass but there are only two things wrong: 1 the engine cuts out without LOTS of choke (which I hope cleaning the carb will fix) and the washers are blocked/pump broke. |
| 21:05.18 | Cope | Hmm... all #freebsd channels seem to be littered with fairly dumb newbies. |
| 21:05.19 | *** join/#gllug jason_ukpost (~jason@public1-watf3-5-cust248.lond.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 21:05.27 | Cope | relo |
| 21:05.32 | jason_ukpost | re |
| 21:05.55 | wethrin | relllo |
| 21:06.15 | Cope2 | Hello! |
| 21:06.26 | Cope3 | Hello Cope2! |
| 21:06.43 | jason_ukfsn | hello various Copes |
| 21:08.04 | William | jhwe;;op ewwqthribn |
| 21:11.35 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@host-212-158-207-148.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 21:11.41 | Cope | woo leeds |
| 21:11.50 | wethrin | Hi Leeds |
| 21:12.21 | Leeds | evening all |
| 21:17.55 | wethrin | ibot help |
| 21:18.22 | wethrin | ibot kernel |
| 21:19.51 | Cope | wethrin: ibot left |
| 21:20.08 | wethrin | Ibot is here |
| 21:20.12 | | wish i knew, wethrin |
| 21:20.40 | wethrin | ibot nslookup ns0.eco.li |
| 21:20.45 | wethrin | w00t |
| 21:24.08 | *** join/#gllug stephanb (~frog@dsl-80-46-209-204.access.uk.tiscali.com) |
| 21:24.10 | wethrin | Does it tell you how to write an IP stack? |
| 21:24.23 | Cope | I don't know. |
| 21:24.33 | stephanb | does anybody know Formi's email address ? |
| 21:24.59 | wethrin | formi@blueyonder.co.uk ? |
| 21:25.05 | wethrin | It'll be somewhere in the Gllug archives :) |
| 21:25.19 | stephanb | ah good point |
| 21:25.51 | stephanb | what's the current gllug webpage ? |
| 21:27.39 | stephanb | hmm not sure the email archives have migrated to the new server... |
| 21:28.07 | wethrin | They're there |
| 21:28.09 | wethrin | :) |
| 21:28.19 | Cope | Comforting words. |
| 21:30.19 | Cope | As someone without root privelages, can I install the compiled irssi in my home directory, manually? |
| 21:30.27 | wethrin | Sure |
| 21:30.57 | Cope | But if I type make install after compiling, will it try to put it somewhere global? |
| 21:31.09 | Leeds | does it use autoconf? |
| 21:31.10 | wethrin | Yes |
| 21:31.20 | wethrin | ./configure --prefix=/home/cope/irssi |
| 21:31.25 | Leeds | yes, that |
| 21:32.19 | Cope | So I can re-configure after compilation? then install? |
| 21:32.27 | Leeds | maybe |
| 21:33.06 | Cope | well, it compiled ok, in /home/cope/src |
| 21:33.18 | stephanb | got it. access to the archives only works through the GLLUG Announce link |
| 21:33.38 | Leeds | maybe better to rebuild it... in case it's got any compiled-in default paths |
| 21:33.39 | Cope | should i do ./configure --prefix=/home/cope/irssi and then make install? |
| 21:33.45 | jason_ukfsn | stephanb: what isn't working on the site? |
| 21:33.54 | stephanb | for some reason the GLLUG Discussion - webpage points to an error page |
| 21:34.09 | murble | stephanb: maybe it is a shock! broken link? |
| 21:34.13 | jason_ukfsn | I'll take a look. I suspect it hasn't been updated since the lists were moved. |
| 21:34.17 | murble | or rotten link or whaver you want to call it! |
| 21:34.31 | stephanb | jason_ukfsn: try GLLUG Discussion - webpage http://list.gllug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug |
| 21:34.33 | Leeds | jason_ukfsn: it's pointing to list.gllug.org.uk rather than lists - which actually ends up on my machine :-) |
| 21:36.22 | jason_ukfsn | I've fixed the link - stephen can you confirm that it's OK for you now. |
| 21:36.51 | Leeds | that's done the job |
| 21:37.04 | stephanb | may i say to whoever is responsible : thumbs up for setting up a wiki. I love contributing to wikis! |
| 21:37.13 | stephanb | jason_ukfsn: yes it's working |
| 21:37.23 | murble | if we are not careful people may even post! |
| 21:37.26 | Leeds | stephanb: you're welcome :-) |
| 21:37.58 | jason_ukfsn | murble: don't worry - I'll change everyone's account to non-posting ;) |
| 21:38.10 | Cope | ibot tell evangineer about sleep |
| 21:39.05 | Leeds | not much on there right now... |
| 21:39.51 | Cope | Leeds: should i worry about messages that say: Your makefile has been rebuilt, please re-run the make file; false? |
| 21:41.18 | jason_ukfsn | OK I need to get some sleep as I have a bust day tomorrow. Have fun folks. |
| 21:41.19 | Leeds | Cope: I have no idea - I don't think I've ever seen a message like that |
| 21:41.24 | Leeds | enjoy your bust |
| 21:41.41 | stephanb | jason_ukfsn: nite nite |
| 21:41.45 | jason_ukfsn | Leeds: I must, I must, I must improve my ... |
| 21:42.13 | Cope | Would it be polite to ask owner of box before installing irssi, or given that its my homedir, not to worry, and mind my own business? |
| 21:42.14 | Leeds | :-) |
| 21:42.30 | Leeds | Cope: what sort of box? what sort of account do you have? |
| 21:43.20 | Leeds | as in: is it public or a friend, a formal account or a favour |
| 21:43.32 | Cope | leeds: Its one of my friends boxes; hosting a project that he and I work on; I have shell access, and sudo powers. |
| 21:44.02 | Leeds | then I'd just slap in it ~ and not worry - maybe just drop him a mail to let him know, rather than asking |
| 21:44.19 | wethrin | sudo make install, then :) |
| 21:44.23 | stephanb | ok evrybody, i'm off. byeee! |
| 21:44.28 | Leeds | seeya stephanb |
| 21:44.37 | wethrin | Byee |
| 21:44.42 | stephanb | Leeds: and happy hannukah |
| 21:45.15 | Leeds | thanks :-) |
| 21:45.16 | *** part/#gllug stephanb (~frog@dsl-80-46-209-204.access.uk.tiscali.com) |
| 21:46.59 | wethrin | ibot nslookup bar.eco.li |
| 21:48.04 | Cope | ibot nslookup weirdness.hopto.org |
| 21:56.14 | wethrin | Hrm. There's no way of forcing a name server to update its cache, is there? |
| 22:02.55 | wethrin | w00t. Finally nameserver updates |
| 22:08.00 | *** join/#gllug irvined (~irvined@home.irvined.co.uk) |
| 22:17.49 | wethrin | Hm. Could someone 'ping hermes.eco.li', please? |
| 22:21.42 | nasrat | timeout here |
| 22:21.53 | wethrin | Hmm. |
| 22:22.01 | wethrin | Thanks. It looks like ev1.net is broken |
| 22:22.04 | nasrat | you want traceroute/path |
| 22:22.17 | nasrat | hmm I'm on an ev1.net server one sec |
| 22:22.43 | wethrin | Yes, I've done traceroute |
| 22:22.48 | wethrin | 16 * ivhou-207-218-245-36.ev1.net (207.218.245.36) 848.274 ms !H 3998.87 ms !H |
| 22:23.23 | nasrat | * ivhou-207-218-223-36.ev1.net (207.218.223.36) 1739.547 ms !H 3999.111 ms !H |
| 22:23.28 | nasrat | 2nd hop |
| 22:23.34 | wethrin | Yes. |
| 22:23.39 | nasrat | must be a local router issue |
| 22:23.45 | wethrin | Grmpf. |
| 22:23.51 | wethrin | I don't like ev1 |
| 22:23.57 | nasrat | or I assume it's actually router module on a switch |
| 22:24.09 | nasrat | wethrin: try verio they blocked the entire of udp |
| 22:24.33 | wethrin | D'oh |
| 22:25.33 | nasrat | I'm officially their worst customer (personally) |
| 22:25.41 | nasrat | well in the uk |
| 22:25.47 | wethrin | Howso? |
| 22:25.55 | wethrin | You complain about their crapness? |
| 22:26.18 | nasrat | oh yes, and really asked lots of hard questions. |
| 22:26.28 | wethrin | Heh. Which they had no idea about? |
| 22:27.17 | wethrin | "There are various reasons why a server will report a kenel panic (kp). |
| 22:27.21 | wethrin | Sometimes there is an issue with the HD, other times there may be problems |
| 22:27.21 | wethrin | with the kernel." |
| 22:27.35 | wethrin | That's their support's answer to 'give us some more information about a panic' |
| 22:27.53 | nasrat | urgh co-lo is hard |
| 22:28.08 | wethrin | (i.e. I was hoping to at least find out what process caused the panic) |
| 22:29.08 | Cope | Hmm... I've got a blue screen and a fatal exception - what does this mean? |
| 22:30.01 | wethrin | "The only solution is a system restore" |
| 22:35.03 | murble | Cope: have you seen any reasonably paid ones on offer/ |
| 22:35.36 | Cope | murble: No... :o( Would you do it? Or only if the money was average?\ |
| 22:36.08 | murble | I'd probably do it for 20k if it was local, mini 25k for london though. |
| 22:36.17 | murble | since it costs about 5k just in getting there etc and hastle. |
| 22:36.43 | Cope | Your another bucks fizz? |
| 22:54.02 | wethrin | ARGH! |
| 22:54.11 | wethrin | Mucking fuppets! |
| 23:01.42 | wethrin | SeasonsUnix! |
| 23:01.51 | wethrin | Or was that new2greetings? |
| 23:01.57 | new2unix | bah |
| 23:02.01 | wethrin | humbug |
| 23:10.01 | *** join/#gllug Cytherea (~cope@public1-stok3-3-cust220.manc.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 23:12.00 | wethrin | Good :) |
| 23:30.43 | murble | Cope: i bet they just setup the lists to get people to no email them directly. |
| 23:30.47 | wethrin | Is there much rampant Debian advocacy on there? |
| 23:30.59 | murble | let them arge to death for no reason, whilst the real developers get on with it. |
| 23:31.32 | Cope | No, people seem to have got the idea that this is about providing a serious product for the enterprise, and that political ranting will do them no favours. |
| 23:32.24 | Cope | murble: Perrens is posting frequently, so I think its serving a purpose beyond filtering emails. |
| 23:33.31 | murble | Perens |
| 23:33.56 | wethrin | Bruce, meet Bruce. |
| 23:34.18 | wethrin | Cope: Not many Debianites on the list, then? ;-) |
| 23:36.10 | JD | hi |
| 23:36.21 | wethrin | Speaking of the devils :) |
| 23:36.35 | Cope | Hello JD |
| 23:36.37 | Cope | :o) |
| 23:36.44 | wethrin | 'tis a JD |
| 23:36.54 | JD | murble: bah I've had several |
| 23:38.37 | JD | Cope: presumably they leave all the political crap to debian |
| 23:38.47 | JD | and then just use our good work |
| 23:39.00 | wethrin | What good work? |
| 23:39.25 | JD | wethrin: probably nothing |
| 23:40.31 | Cope | Political argumentation will surely form a part of the pitch, but it would have to be carefully moderated to ensure it didn't come over as ranting zealotry. |
| 23:43.17 | JD | Cope: zealots in the OSS world? never |
| 23:44.47 | Leeds | bah, bloody Sun code broke my build |
| 23:46.01 | wethrin | Fix it, then :) |
| 23:47.11 | Leeds | hm... |
| 23:50.33 | wethrin | It's rather useful |
| 23:53.38 | wethrin | G'night all |
| 23:54.04 | wethrin | Nooooooooo! |
| 23:54.43 | new2unix | G'night wethrin :) |
| 23:54.59 | Leeds | night |
| 23:55.29 | wethrin | Oh, and Merry Christmas / Happy Hannukah (sp?) for those who won't be here tomorrow |
| 23:56.30 | Leeds | Cope: tomorrow, no? |
| 23:56.41 | Cope | Day changed to 24 Dec 2003 |
| 23:57.05 | new2unix | so cope got a baby as a birthday present? kewl. lol |
| 23:57.12 | Cope | Awesome present. |
| 23:57.59 | Cope | 11.58 |
| 23:58.16 | Leeds | miracle anti-aging cream! |
| 23:59.36 | Cope | negative time products |
| 23:59.50 | Leeds | heh |