| 00:31.23 | *** join/#gllug ibot (ibot@c-24-1-99-18.client.comcast.net) |
| 00:31.23 | *** topic/#gllug is Greater London LUG. Next meeting: Saturday 24th January, Web Site: http://www.gllug.org.uk |
| 00:31.30 | Cope | ibot: woo! |
| 00:31.32 | | rumour has it, woo is woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot! |
| 01:02.04 | new2unix | cope ping |
| 01:02.08 | Cope | pong |
| 01:02.45 | Cope | Get you party gown, get your pigtails out, get your heart beating, baby! |
| 01:12.07 | new2unix | debian spoon feeds you with .debs and apt-gets that one often never needs to ./configure ; make ; etc |
| 01:12.59 | Cope | Indeed |
| 01:13.25 | new2unix | never realsied it till i got serious with slack. |
| 01:13.27 | Cope | And then a few months later when dependency tracking has broken... |
| 01:14.22 | new2unix | cope: btw: you never really said why you decided to give debian a try. what was it that compelled you to give it your time? what werent you happy about with Slack? |
| 01:14.56 | Cope | The only reason I ever try debian is purely political. |
| 01:15.16 | new2unix | not even religious? lol |
| 01:15.20 | Cope | I have a strong affinity with the idealogical basis for debian. |
| 01:16.43 | evangineer | Cope: me too, debian is indeed ideologically sound! |
| 01:17.05 | Cope | I'm actually messing about with redhat atm as I have to administer them... it feels quite odd. |
| 01:17.16 | evangineer | Having tasted it though, made me glad to return to my slack boxen |
| 01:17.22 | new2unix | evangineer: almost too ideological at times. they are everywhere almost. yesh. lol |
| 01:18.23 | evangineer | from a technical perspective, i'm defintely leaning towards BSDs |
| 01:18.44 | *** join/#gllug stan (~stan@nimitz.cehill.co.uk) |
| 01:18.47 | new2unix | i enjoyed NetBSD |
| 01:18.56 | evangineer | Except for the lack of ports, slack is a good compromise. |
| 01:19.04 | new2unix | would like to ditch debian for Slack and servers for NetBSD eventually. :) |
| 01:19.44 | Cope | I'm wondering what to put on my work laptop. |
| 01:19.49 | Cope | choices: |
| 01:20.13 | new2unix | Win2003 server |
| 01:20.23 | new2unix | Hah |
| 01:20.31 | evangineer | Nirvana may be slackware with pkgsrc http://users.piuha.net/martti/bsd/slackware/slackware.html |
| 01:20.32 | Cope | a) redhat / fedora (so I have a reference) b) slackware (because its ace) c) freebsd (because its cool) |
| 01:20.55 | Cope | evangineer: I tried that, and Clyphox too (he put me onto it) |
| 01:21.43 | evangineer | Yes, I recollect you mentioning it. I'd like to try it out for myself. |
| 01:22.02 | evangineer | Cope: does the new job use Solaris? |
| 01:23.21 | Cope | evangineer: 80% Solaris 20% Red Hat |
| 01:23.40 | Cope | But the linux stuff is growing |
| 01:24.33 | evangineer | Suggest a dual boot with redhat and solaris x86 then to reflect the work environment. |
| 01:25.19 | evangineer | Then you could try out things on your laptop before doing them on production machines. |
| 01:27.30 | Cope | It's RHEL 3.0 built from srpms, and free. |
| 01:30.48 | evangineer | Good idea. |
| 01:32.29 | *** join/#gllug highbury (~steve@81-1-70-130.homechoice.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 01:37.38 | evangineer | There's quite a few rhel clones around now, http://www.whiteboxlinux.org is the one that I'm most aware of. |
| 01:38.08 | Cope | Yeah I looked at that too. |
| 01:39.23 | Cope | I liked the look of tao more. |
| 01:42.05 | evangineer | So what gives tao the edge? |
| 01:43.10 | Cope | I liked the website more, and the content led me to believe that the guy behind it was very capable. |
| 01:43.53 | evangineer | Yes, he does seem to have the right approach. |
| 01:45.28 | evangineer | The higher the degree of compatibility, the more use it will be. |
| 01:46.09 | Cope | 'I click <pretty button> and it doesn't work - what do I do?' |
| 01:46.21 | Cope | Install windows. |
| 01:47.04 | Cope | Have seen some very capable people too, though. |
| 01:49.21 | evangineer | That's the thing though isn't it, redhat as a product encourages GUIcentricity. |
| 01:49.57 | murb | evangineer: you're having a joke ? |
| 01:50.18 | murb | you won't get very far with a redhat server trying to do anything intresting / useful much with just the gui. |
| 01:50.40 | evangineer | Fair enough. |
| 01:51.22 | murb | and i don't have a problem with linux distrbutions where you can do useful stuff from a gui either, although i tend to distrust such things :) |
| 01:51.50 | murb | (more from the PoV of what is going to happen if i manually edit a config file, will it get trampled over the next time someone fiddles with the gui?) |
| 02:07.50 | evangineer | Hmm, Sybase ASE hasn't been certified for RHEL3 yet, only 2.1 |
| 02:09.13 | evangineer | My developer's edition is certified for 7.2 but runs on 7.3 |
| 02:09.31 | murb | evangineer: they forgot the /etc/redhat-release check :) |
| 02:10.36 | evangineer | murb: dunno! |
| 02:36.14 | evangineer | As I'm trying to develop good sleep habits, I'm going to bed. nn all |
| 02:37.01 | Cope | Good idea :o) |
| 02:37.16 | new2unix | night evangineer |
| 02:42.26 | Cope | But then I guess I was stupid too. |
| 02:42.51 | Cope | It's not their fault that they don't know or understand how iptables works. |
| 02:43.16 | Cope | However, it is their fault that they won't go and do some reading to learn and then ask mildly educated questions. |
| 02:47.42 | new2unix | nighr cope |
| 02:47.53 | Cope | nn :o) |
| 04:01.49 | *** join/#gllug agk (~agk@tanganyika.uk.sistina.com) |
| 06:38.18 | new2unix | moin all |
| 07:36.32 | *** join/#gllug zachary (~zachary@host81-129-18-23.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 07:44.56 | zachary | moin |
| 07:45.45 | new2unix | moin zachary |
| 07:49.26 | zachary | how's things going? |
| 07:50.36 | new2unix | Things are fine this way. rushing to get out of the house at the mo. will chat later. seeya :) |
| 07:50.47 | new2unix | < work |
| 08:09.02 | *** join/#gllug anth (~anth@195.157.53.168) |
| 08:36.01 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@host-212-158-207-148.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 09:19.32 | wethrin | morn |
| 09:22.38 | zachary | morning wethrin |
| 09:22.51 | *** join/#gllug Nutshell (~les@82-33-169-47.cable.ubr06.wiga.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 09:23.16 | Tarragon | Moin Nutshell |
| 09:23.20 | Nutshell | good mornin everyone |
| 09:27.01 | wethrin | Tarragon: You missed Slackware off your distribution roundup :-P |
| 09:29.02 | zachary | wethrin: Slackware is not a real distro! |
| 09:29.14 | zachary | ;-P |
| 09:29.45 | wethrin | What about Xandros, then? :) |
| 09:37.28 | wethrin | Who's being sociable tonight? |
| 09:37.56 | zachary | Lonix sociable or GLLUG Sociable? |
| 09:38.08 | wethrin | Lonix |
| 09:38.48 | zachary | I might be able to make it, Jess took her final exam today. She doesn't think she did well. So slim chance I might not be able to make it. |
| 09:39.31 | wethrin | :-/ What was the exam? |
| 09:39.50 | zachary | Kinda half-ass version of CISSP but for the US Navy |
| 09:45.10 | Tarragon | wethrin: Actually I have been dowmloading the second iso this morning with SAStk |
| 09:48.31 | wethrin | zachary: ahh |
| 09:48.33 | wethrin | CISSP? |
| 09:48.42 | Tarragon | Cisco |
| 09:48.49 | wethrin | Tarragon: Might we still make a convert to the One True Distro out of you? :) |
| 09:48.52 | wethrin | Ah |
| 09:49.03 | zachary | No, information security specialist |
| 09:49.46 | Tarragon | I have yet to find a perfect distro. Do not think it exists. Rumours, but only myths of some long forgotten file server |
| 09:50.17 | nasrat | but netware 3 is a NOS not an OS |
| 09:51.39 | zachary | last I dealt with netware was either 3.11 or 3.12, don't quite remember. |
| 09:56.48 | wethrin | I've got official disks for Netware 2.x and 3.1x, and *cough*CDs of Netware 4.11 |
| 09:57.28 | Nutshell | that sound like a bad cough wethrin |
| 10:02.24 | wethrin | Only two of them |
| 10:18.08 | wethrin | Dear Mozilla, you are a slow bloated pile of shite. Love, Dan |
| 10:18.51 | Tarragon | And an alternative would be? |
| 10:20.17 | wethrin | There are no really decent web browsers |
| 10:20.41 | wethrin | I did like Konqueror, but I don't want to have lots of KDE libraries installed on this system (seeing as it's not KDE) |
| 10:22.58 | wethrin | Opera was very nice when I used it (specially with saving web page state on crash/exit) |
| 10:23.14 | wethrin | But it's binary-only, so doesn't work on non-x86 architectures |
| 10:25.27 | wethrin | So far, I've found that Safari is the best of a bad bunch |
| 10:26.09 | nasrat | I quite like camino too |
| 10:26.30 | Cope|afk | w3m |
| 10:27.31 | Cope | Morning all. |
| 10:27.41 | Nutshell | mornin |
| 10:30.29 | rhowe | Cope: I was going to say something to you but I forgot what |
| 10:30.44 | rhowe | 02:43 * Cope boggles at the stupidity of new red hat users. |
| 10:30.56 | rhowe | Ah, yes |
| 10:31.13 | rhowe | We tend to reserve irssi's /knockout for them on Undernet #linux :) |
| 10:36.35 | *** join/#gllug anth (~anth@195.157.53.168) |
| 10:57.12 | zachary | wethrin: Jess passed her exam. She did really well, 93% on the final and 91.x overall. |
| 10:57.16 | zachary | :-) |
| 10:57.53 | murb | zachary: what was the course? |
| 10:57.58 | murb | and does she start earning big money now? |
| 10:58.07 | wethrin | w00t! |
| 10:58.17 | wethrin | That sounds like it's worth celebrating! |
| 10:58.39 | murb | at Lonix? |
| 10:59.04 | zachary | An information security class that the US Navy offers. It does tranfer to college credits. And also gives her a reenlistment bonus when her contract expires. |
| 10:59.40 | wethrin | yes |
| 11:00.11 | murb | is that like danger money, without the danger? |
| 11:02.02 | zachary | They give half up front and the rest paid in equal amounts annually for the duration of the contract. |
| 11:07.59 | highbury | congrats to Jess, Zach |
| 11:14.46 | *** join/#gllug Nutshell (~les@82-33-169-47.cable.ubr06.wiga.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 11:14.58 | Nutshell | bloody fedora |
| 11:19.30 | Nutshell | ok guy's need some help, which one should i learn C, C++, Python, Perl. I have never done any programming before, any help would be greatful |
| 11:24.51 | wethrin | Don't learn C++ |
| 11:25.17 | Nutshell | only 3 left |
| 11:25.34 | murb | so learn the remaing ones,e asy. |
| 11:27.52 | Leeds | Nutshell: python is fun :-) |
| 11:28.30 | Leeds | Perl is messy |
| 11:28.35 | wethrin | C is not particularly nice as a first language |
| 11:29.08 | Leeds | C is good for understanding how your system works, at a relatively low level, and for system stuff - otherwise, leave it until later |
| 11:29.26 | Nutshell | so who the vote is for Python |
| 11:29.34 | Nutshell | *the* |
| 11:29.43 | wethrin | Or Java :) |
| 11:30.18 | Nutshell | thanks wethrin really confuse me :) |
| 11:30.20 | Leeds | or Java... |
| 11:33.02 | murb | go for the ground beans |
| 11:33.09 | wethrin | Yes |
| 11:35.40 | wethrin | Fortran :-P |
| 11:35.43 | Nutshell | going for a little read python/java :) |
| 11:36.11 | wethrin | Back to the phone :-/ |
| 11:36.31 | wethrin | Bah. Engaged |
| 11:38.36 | *** join/#gllug jason_ukfsn (~jason@spc1-watf3-5-0-cust248.lond.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 11:38.38 | jason_ukfsn | hey all |
| 11:38.54 | wethrin | hi |
| 11:40.52 | zachary | morning jason_ukfsn |
| 11:48.20 | wethrin | BWAH! |
| 11:48.32 | wethrin | I got my first Nigerian spam to my suse address |
| 11:48.50 | wethrin | And the only place that it would be public would be on the suse schools list archive |
| 11:48.55 | murb | wethrin: they want you to help them get their hands on the novell millions? |
| 11:49.27 | wethrin | No. Just the Nigerian millions |
| 11:49.55 | murb | wethrin: you should reply and tell them about the Novell millions. |
| 11:50.23 | wethrin | That would involve demonstrating that my email address is valid |
| 11:50.28 | jason_ukfsn | are you sure they aren't offering you the SCO millions? |
| 11:51.12 | wethrin | ARGH! And more spam! |
| 12:24.55 | wethrin | jason_ukfsn: The patches are pretty much the same |
| 12:25.41 | jason_ukfsn | were you able to break out of the chroot wethrin? |
| 12:25.52 | jason_ukfsn | and what platform did you use? |
| 12:26.01 | wethrin | OpenBSD |
| 12:26.20 | wethrin | I haven't been able to break out of the chroot. But then, I haven't really tried |
| 12:26.44 | wethrin | Just have the minimal amount in their home directories |
| 12:27.09 | wethrin | I've got (will have) a slightly modified sash, plus a couple of editors and related libraries |
| 12:36.16 | *** join/#gllug JD_ (~david@hades.robster.org.uk) |
| 12:42.09 | *** join/#gllug irvined (~irvined@adsl-239-121.as15758.net) |
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| 12:53.57 | Leeds | argh, fucking spammers |
| 12:54.36 | wethrin | Yes. |
| 12:55.01 | jason_ukfsn | areyou? |
| 12:55.10 | evangineer | Nutshell: I've already pointed you to http://wiki.gllug.org.uk/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/LearnPython |
| 12:56.06 | wethrin | Right. I think I should head off to Uni by way of lunch. |
| 12:56.28 | jenson | hi guys |
| 12:58.41 | jason_ukfsn | hi jenson. Did youmove yet? |
| 12:59.04 | jenson | yeh |
| 12:59.18 | wethrin | jason_ukfsn: You Lonixing tonight? |
| 12:59.33 | jason_ukfsn | wethrin: I am intending to yes |
| 12:59.36 | wethrin | w00t |
| 12:59.37 | jenson | oooh oooh ooh this means i can go to lonix |
| 12:59.39 | wethrin | See you there then |
| 12:59.41 | wethrin | Urgh. |
| 12:59.46 | murb | jason_ukfsn: you've got a thursday night extension? |
| 12:59.57 | jenson | wethrin: dont worry, im not going lol |
| 13:00.02 | jason_ukfsn | mother in law is here so she can look after the kids tonight ;) |
| 13:00.43 | wethrin | Right. Bye! |
| 13:00.57 | jason_ukfsn | Left |
| 13:20.37 | jenson | Jenson > London |
| 13:31.48 | highbury | jason_ukfsn, have you properly configured /etc/shells, maybe sftp needs that configured |
| 13:39.41 | jason_ukfsn | highbury: it works for users with a valid shell. |
| 13:40.07 | jason_ukfsn | I want to replicate what I have for normal FTP - ie users just need to have a valid shell and are chrooted |
| 13:40.44 | jason_ukfsn | I am looking at rssh at the moment which claims to do what I need for scp and sftp with standard openssh |
| 13:40.52 | Nutshell | evangineer: me put my name on what will be next ? |
| 13:41.00 | jason_ukfsn | I've spent a lot of the morning building the necessary openssl and openssh updates |
| 13:41.47 | jason_ukfsn | now that I've applied the updates I am going through the docs for rssh |
| 13:42.11 | jason_ukfsn | I intend to make sftp and scp available for UKFSN users who prefer not to use standard FTP. |
| 13:42.22 | zachary | jason_ukfsn: :-) |
| 13:43.48 | zachary | Nothing bad, I just like to use sftp vs ftp. Especially in konqueror, makes life easier. |
| 13:43.58 | highbury | jason_ukfsn, so what is the value for the shell configured in /etc/passwd |
| 13:44.27 | jason_ukfsn | at the moment the users have /bin/false. That's a proble for sftp however as it requires a real shell for the underlying ssh connection |
| 13:44.52 | jason_ukfsn | I need to ensure that the user's shell is restricted to allowing scp and sftp only. |
| 13:45.22 | highbury | just add /bin/true into /etc/shells and make that their shell, otherwise write a mini-shell wrapper and add that |
| 13:45.55 | jason_ukfsn | well rssh claims to handle chrooting properly as well so I'm going to test that and if it works use it. |
| 13:46.31 | jason_ukfsn | I want the users chrooted so that they cannot see outside the filesystem holding their files. |
| 13:47.17 | jason_ukfsn | that way I am free to consider allowing shell access later if I want to. |
| 13:47.41 | evangineer | Nutshell: I'm looking to have at least 5 people signed up before I do anything else. If you want to buy yourself a copy of the book in the meantime and start familiarizing yourself with it's contents be my guest! |
| 13:48.17 | Nutshell | evangineer: will do thanks |
| 13:49.33 | jason_ukfsn | that's why I'm interested in rssh - it claims to handle it all and, at first glance, seems OK |
| 13:51.32 | highbury | I have a very simple solution to enable controlled scp/rcp/rsync accsess, which just uses a simple login shell wrapper |
| 13:51.43 | gregj | :] |
| 13:54.01 | jason_ukfsn | well my initial tests of rssh (without chroot yet) show that it works nicely |
| 13:54.15 | jason_ukfsn | once I have the chroot all done and tested I'll be making it available to UKFSN users. |
| 15:14.41 | evangineer | bad news from munich http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/34891.html |
| 15:15.47 | evangineer | it would be a shame if a flagship project like this failed |
| 15:16.09 | Cope | Should be ok. |
| 15:16.27 | evangineer | microsoft would make propaganda hay out of it. |
| 15:16.34 | Cope | The team are very capable - I'm sure its only a minor setback. |
| 15:21.37 | *** join/#gllug mozrat (~mozrat@mozrat-work.batesuk.com) |
| 15:21.42 | Cope | Woo mozrat |
| 15:21.47 | mozrat | Woo Cope |
| 15:22.14 | Cope | I start 10 am on Monday :o) |
| 15:23.09 | mozrat | Excellent!!!! |
| 15:23.12 | mozrat | Congrats |
| 15:25.05 | jason_ukfsn | ping zachary |
| 15:25.07 | jason_ukfsn | well I now have sftp with chroot set up and working for UKFSN (albeit I've not made it available to all users yet) |
| 15:25.10 | jason_ukfsn | that was very painless - easy even |
| 15:25.14 | jason_ukfsn | thereg doesn't like my konq browser |
| 15:25.16 | jason_ukfsn | what's the actual setback? the article seems light on detail |
| 15:25.29 | murb | Cope: how did you locale teh job? |
| 15:25.40 | Cope | murb: sheer nepotism |
| 15:25.47 | murb | hehe :) |
| 15:26.24 | Cope | murb: But once I have my feet under the desk, I'll look out... the company takes recommendations very seriously. |
| 15:26.44 | murb | cool :) |
| 15:27.59 | Cope | ping nasrat |
| 15:28.41 | Cope | Does nasrat work for redhat or something? Or does he just have lots of RH experience, and really likes it? |
| 15:30.11 | nasrat | pong - no I don't work for redhat I do hack on rpm though |
| 15:32.17 | nasrat | Cope: what can I do for you |
| 15:33.14 | Cope | nasrat: just wanted to give you my fedora feedback. |
| 15:33.34 | evangineer | jason_ukfsn: I don't read german but I'm trying to piece things together using google translations. |
| 15:33.53 | nasrat | Cope: go on then |
| 15:34.05 | Cope | nasrat: I installed it for Sophie and messed about on it - thought you might find new user and slack user feedback useful... |
| 15:34.24 | nasrat | sure if it's verbose feel free to mail |
| 15:34.56 | evangineer | about 50% of Munich's ISVs don't have any interest in open source and Linux so will not port their apps. |
| 15:34.58 | Cope | nasrat: Well - I can keep it short, but if others would find it boring I'll mail you. |
| 15:35.40 | nasrat | Cope: go for it |
| 15:35.49 | jason_ukfsn | evangineer: how many of those apps are important to .gov.de though? |
| 15:36.03 | Cope | nasrat: install was painless, the best I've seen; and required very little input. |
| 15:36.15 | jason_ukfsn | I suspect that any ISV who wants the business will get an interest soon enough |
| 15:36.34 | murb | I thought they were also buying vmware for lots of their machines as well. |
| 15:36.40 | murb | so they could run legacy stuff. |
| 15:36.47 | Cope | nasrat: it struggled with my isa 3c509 and kudzu breaks it - disabling kudzu didn't help |
| 15:37.08 | nasrat | Cope: hmm that's a known issue. but yeah not good |
| 15:37.37 | Cope | nasrat: X is well driven, very smooth, big improvement over earlier redhats |
| 15:37.59 | Cope | nasrat: Sophie found bluecurve easy to use |
| 15:38.59 | Cope | nasrat: I was a bit annoyed at having to apply yummy patches to fix a basic networking problem, and the gui didn't fix it either, so I had to do it from the command line (not good for Sophie if I wasn't there) |
| 15:39.41 | Cope | nasrat: A few bugs here and there - xterm occasionally blanks out text when ssh'd to remote box running screen |
| 15:40.10 | evangineer | jason_ukfsn: No idea, here's a link http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.pro-linux.de/news/2004/6339.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dcomputerwoche%2Blimux%26num%3D30%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3Dutf-8 |
| 15:40.28 | Cope | nasrat: all in all, very positive; and recommendable for new user... obviously plenty of power under the hood for the experienced user. |
| 15:40.53 | nasrat | Cope: cheers for that |
| 15:41.33 | Cope | nasrat: Compared RH9 Fedora and RHEL and reckon fedora is quite different from RHEL - which presents a problem. |
| 15:42.43 | Cope | nasrat: Also think fedora could be a bit bleeding edge and buggy for server/production which is a problem for RH users who don't want to spend money. |
| 15:42.46 | nasrat | Cope: umm depends what you mean different. rhel 3 forked off before fc1 release. |
| 15:43.11 | nasrat | Cope: fc2 will be bleeding edge, but fedora-legacy will keep fc1 going |
| 15:43.21 | stephen | evangineer: what prior knowledge would the python course assume? I can program, but haven't done object oriented programming before |
| 15:43.24 | *** join/#gllug cup (~cup@host81-136-17-8.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 15:43.27 | nasrat | anyway will discuss most of this stuff |
| 15:43.29 | jason_ukfsn | evangineer: if you look at that 50% statistic from another angle it's clear that approx 50% of all ISVs have already committed to working with linux if necessary |
| 15:43.47 | cup | afternoon |
| 15:44.08 | jason_ukfsn | hey cup |
| 15:44.32 | evangineer | jason_ukfsn: the real issue seems to be lack of budget and skills from what I can work out. |
| 15:45.01 | Cope | nasrat: fedora legacy being community supported... but for how long? given scheduled release cycle will fedora-legacy always be built on fc1 or move to fc2, inconvenient for fc1-legacy users. |
| 15:45.36 | nasrat | Cope: really I will discuss all this I'd rather save it for the talk and q/a's which is the point of giving it |
| 15:46.02 | nasrat | Cope: feedback much appreciated though - I'm just a bit busy to address fully now |
| 15:47.45 | *** join/#gllug NisoDaemon (~ask@host81-129-105-81.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 15:48.21 | Cope | nasrat: welcome :o) |
| 15:48.45 | evangineer | stephen: the book http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lpython2/desc.html introduces both python and object-oriented programming |
| 15:48.59 | Cope | evangineer: ah the python reading group? |
| 15:49.10 | stephen | evangineer: cool, ta |
| 15:49.27 | evangineer | Cope: yes, seem to be getting some interest in it. |
| 15:49.54 | *** part/#gllug NisoDaemon (~ask@host81-129-105-81.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 15:49.58 | Cope | evangineer: you registered my interest automatically, I hope :o) |
| 15:51.05 | evangineer | Cope: the official place to register interest is http://wiki.gllug.org.uk/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonStudyGroup |
| 15:51.28 | evangineer | Cope: I take nothing for granted! |
| 15:54.20 | gregj | Cope: are you at lonix tonight ? |
| 15:56.35 | Cope | gregj: oooh... |
| 15:58.14 | Cope | gregj: maybe... likelihood about 70% |
| 15:58.20 | gregj | murb: das ist nicht gut |
| 15:58.26 | gregj | Cope: ok :-) |
| 15:58.31 | *** join/#gllug ar (~ar@bob.nooneishere.co.uk) |
| 15:58.47 | gregj | i'll probably go, if there are going to be few ppl i know |
| 15:58.50 | murb | gregj: well london is expensive especially if you are without job. |
| 15:59.20 | gregj | or your job is not well paid |
| 15:59.41 | murb | gregj: a not well paid job is better than no job. |
| 15:59.52 | murb | I'd probably accept a job that paid my train fare + food |
| 16:01.08 | gregj | if i'll found something decent, you can take mine :-) |
| 16:01.21 | murb | no, i'm not qualified! |
| 16:02.38 | gregj | no neither |
| 16:04.17 | murb | so making it more expensive for everyone else :) |
| 16:04.25 | Cope | murb: qualification? lol I have a degree in theology - that's about it. |
| 16:07.31 | Nutshell | 42 househusband for the past 5 years me have no chance of job :( |
| 16:08.18 | jason_ukfsn | Cope: you did look kind of priestly ;) |
| 16:09.23 | murb | jason_ukfsn: will you get credit :) ? |
| 16:09.43 | gregj | Cope: :] |
| 16:10.47 | *** join/#gllug anth (~anth@195.157.53.168) |
| 16:14.50 | wethrin | jason_ukfsn: w00t. When? |
| 16:15.11 | gregj | Daniel |
| 16:16.08 | rhowe | lonix tonight? |
| 16:16.24 | wethrin | Yes |
| 16:16.26 | wethrin | Of course :) |
| 16:17.01 | rhowe | Do I have to guess the pub? |
| 16:17.29 | wethrin | You could. Or you could visit www.lonix.org.uk |
| 16:17.31 | gregj | no, U can check it online |
| 16:17.47 | wethrin | gregj: You haven't signed up to social yet :) |
| 16:17.50 | rhowe | hrm, laziness bad |
| 16:17.57 | gregj | wethrin: nope |
| 16:18.04 | gregj | wethrin: can you sign me up :> |
| 16:18.12 | wethrin | If you remind me when I'm at home |
| 16:18.14 | gregj | just kidding |
| 16:18.28 | gregj | i am not that lazy |
| 16:19.50 | wethrin | Heh :) |
| 16:20.22 | rhowe | wethrin: heh, my boss is thinking of coming along too |
| 16:20.32 | rhowe | wethrin: Does this require any funding? |
| 16:22.10 | murb | rhowe: well beer is very expensive, so boss should bring company credit card. |
| 16:24.20 | wethrin | Yes. Lonix requires funding. |
| 16:24.24 | wethrin | Specially for the curry. |
| 16:24.45 | wethrin | (assuming it will be curry that we go for) |
| 16:25.36 | rhowe | murb: Unfortunately he's only boss of me, not the whole company :) |
| 16:27.13 | murb | oh that is the good reason not to lonix, the fact that it is always curry. |
| 16:27.43 | rhowe | curry good |
| 16:32.03 | *** join/#gllug wethrin_ (dankolb@2001:618:400:0:0:0:c352:637) |
| 16:32.08 | wethrin_ | Grrrr. |
| 16:32.18 | wethrin_ | Ping timeouts coming soon |
| 16:32.21 | wethrin_ | Apparently Tim O'Reilly will be coming on Eurostar on Friday morning. And Josette. |
| 16:32.25 | wethrin | w00000t! |
| 16:32.25 | wethrin | Apparently Tim O'Reilly will be coming on Eurostar on Friday morning. And Josette. |
| 16:32.30 | wethrin_ | Bah. |
| 16:33.04 | highbury | wethrin, what's the occasion |
| 16:33.35 | wethrin | Fosdem |
| 16:33.49 | wethrin | They will come on the 20th Feb. According to AGK |
| 16:36.07 | *** join/#gllug nasrat (~paul@66.98.134.43) |
| 16:36.34 | agk | yes - they were asking which train most ppl would be catching on the Friday |
| 16:36.51 | murb | hmm the 10:40 is rahter expensive to get to. |
| 16:37.06 | agk | they haven';t booked it yet |
| 16:37.19 | agk | I said I thought it would probably be the 10.42 |
| 16:37.36 | wethrin | murb: According to Leeds, it's cheaper than the 1242 |
| 16:37.44 | murb | wethrin: it is. |
| 16:37.46 | agk | but do yuo think more ppl will get the 12. one? |
| 16:37.51 | murb | the actual train, but you have to get an am ticket. |
| 16:37.52 | wethrin | Note that right now, the 1042 is showing as 29.50 while the 1239 is showing |
| 16:37.54 | wethrin | as 39.50 on eurostar.com... |
| 16:38.03 | murb | wethrin: and getting into london costs? |
| 16:38.05 | agk | 29.50 is the cheapest |
| 16:38.08 | wethrin | agk: I'm intending to get the 1042 |
| 16:38.15 | wethrin | murb: I have a monthly ticket |
| 16:38.17 | agk | I'm on the one before that (already booked) |
| 16:38.20 | wethrin | It doesn't matter to me when I go |
| 16:38.23 | agk | (8.39 or something) |
| 16:38.37 | rhowe | wethrin: If this isn't at the weekend, people won't be able to use YP railcards before 10:30 on any train tickets they need to book to get to the Eurostar terminal |
| 16:39.02 | wethrin | rhowe: On Chiltern Line, it's before 10am that you can't use discount, not 10.30 |
| 16:39.05 | murb | rhowe: YP cards work before then, they just have a miniuym fare. |
| 16:39.14 | wethrin | But I don't have a YP any more - don't need one. |
| 16:39.26 | wethrin | (i.e. it'd be wasted) |
| 16:39.50 | rhowe | murb: Really? They never let me use mine before 10:30.. |
| 16:40.36 | wethrin | I was fine getting a morning train to Edinburgh with YP |
| 16:40.46 | wethrin | (leaving Kings X at 8am) |
| 16:41.13 | wethrin | agk: Are you coming to Lonix tonight? |
| 16:44.15 | Tarragon | From a terminal, how do I find the total size of a directory including its sub directories? |
| 16:44.25 | wethrin | Leeds: Is that what Sun requires of their employees now? ;-) |
| 16:44.28 | wethrin | du -h |
| 16:44.33 | wethrin | (or just du) |
| 16:44.37 | Leeds | wethrin: purely optional |
| 16:44.42 | agk | wethrin: yes |
| 16:44.48 | agk | as soon as I can get away from here |
| 16:45.05 | wethrin | agk: Excellent :) So I'll see you there in a few hours |
| 16:45.10 | murb | rhowe: it might have been more expensive. |
| 16:46.04 | gregj | wethrin: subscribed |
| 16:46.10 | rhowe | wethrin: Yeah, me too with Manchester -> London, but I don't think they are like that on more local services |
| 16:46.13 | wethrin | gregj: Cool |
| 16:46.34 | wethrin | Right. Beertime! |
| 16:46.35 | wethrin | See you at Lonix |
| 16:46.59 | gregj | man , mutt is memory consumming monster |
| 16:47.31 | gregj | i have to put more memory to pointblue |
| 16:48.01 | gregj | it has 128MB atm, it was ok for redhat 6.2, but not enough now since we have more users, more services , and so on |
| 16:48.04 | gregj | ech |
| 16:48.40 | rhowe | wethrin: Later |
| 16:48.42 | gregj | wethrin: what is header for social list ? |
| 16:48.52 | gregj | wethrin: i need to put sometihing in procmail rules |
| 16:51.38 | gregj | :0 |
| 16:51.45 | gregj | * ^List-Id:*Social* |
| 16:51.45 | gregj | :] |
| 16:51.49 | gregj | should be enough for now |
| 16:52.47 | rhowe | s/*/.*/ |
| 16:53.11 | gregj | you reckon |
| 16:53.14 | murb | gregj: you missed the /dev/null # bit |
| 16:53.18 | gregj | ;] |
| 16:53.45 | gregj | rhowe: ^List-Id:.*Social* ? |
| 16:54.04 | rhowe | * ^List-Id:.*Social.* |
| 16:54.10 | rhowe | It's a regex, IIRC |
| 16:54.19 | gregj | rigth |
| 16:54.23 | rhowe | well, the s// was missing a g :) |
| 16:55.44 | gregj | rhowe: ;] |
| 16:55.57 | Leeds | why is Jon Masters trying to go to FOSDEM in Paris? :-) |
| 16:57.15 | rhowe | hm, do I have any Ircon Maiden >= 160Kbps, I wonder |
| 16:57.18 | rhowe | s/Irc/Ir/ |
| 16:57.24 | rhowe | SSH lag is annoying |
| 17:01.22 | murb | Leeds: no idea, but i won't complain :) |
| 17:01.59 | Leeds | heh |
| 17:26.49 | Nutshell | hehehe |
| 17:48.30 | jason_ukfsn | OK my wife has decided to divorce me after I told her I would not write her project for her - she only wants to pull together data but not write it in english and it's for an english class |
| 17:49.14 | rhowe | jason_ukfsn: That sounds pretty bad |
| 17:49.49 | rhowe | My gf is still considering whether or not to stay with me after I (rather idiotically) cheated on her with a friend.. I'm headed to .hk on the 5th to try and patch things up |
| 17:51.00 | rhowe | Anyway, pub. |
| 17:54.34 | Leeds | jason_ukfsn: um... bummer... |
| 17:55.26 | jason_ukfsn | Leeds: she's only a bit serious. Frankly I've warned her for months to do her own work and I've been telling her what corrections she needs to make and what to concentrate on (isn't that her teachers job!!) but she wont listen |
| 17:55.46 | Leeds | just tell her your hourly rate... |
| 17:56.10 | jason_ukfsn | now she has to submit the finished project this evening and expected me to go through 35 or so pages and rewrite it in an hour or so. |
| 17:56.35 | jason_ukfsn | Last time I did that Leeds I came home that night to find that the house was empty - no wife and no kids. |
| 17:56.41 | Leeds | okay... |
| 17:56.46 | jason_ukfsn | I didn't see them again for weeks |
| 17:56.51 | Leeds | well... I'd say proofread it, but not rewrite it |
| 17:56.57 | jason_ukfsn | We haven't lived together since |
| 17:57.16 | jason_ukfsn | I cannot proof read it without pointing out the errors - there's no point. |
| 17:58.00 | gregj | fscking mailman |
| 17:58.12 | jason_ukfsn | I got to page 14 and tried to prompt her to correct something she should know properly (as I've repeatedly corrected it for her) and she just waved at the PC and said "just fix the lot". I walked away. |
| 17:58.23 | jason_ukfsn | are you? Why, what did he do to you? |
| 17:58.27 | gregj | someone made 6000 commits one by one to kde-cvs |
| 17:58.38 | Leeds | argh |
| 17:58.42 | gregj | and all mailing lists are laged |
| 17:58.53 | gregj | because one is delivering 6000xnumber-of-ppl emails |
| 17:58.56 | gregj | to cvs-kde |
| 18:00.23 | gregj | just perfect |
| 18:00.34 | gregj | i think i need to drink :-) |
| 18:00.49 | gregj | Leeds: you are going to be there ? |
| 18:01.14 | gregj | i'll buy you diet coke :-) |
| 18:01.22 | Leeds | heh |
| 18:01.28 | Leeds | maybe... |
| 18:01.39 | jason_ukfsn | come along Leeds - I'll let you buy me a drink ; |
| 18:03.53 | Leeds | I am relatively tired... and from giving blood too |
| 18:04.43 | jason_ukfsn | I didn't mean that kind of drink. You've been watching too much Angel. |
| 18:05.06 | jason_ukfsn | OK I have to go now. If I see you I'll duck behind a table or something ;) |
| 18:47.09 | *** join/#gllug pie (~pie@82-68-20-246.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 18:47.46 | pie | 'lo |
| 18:49.04 | Leeds | hey |
| 18:49.17 | pie | Jude? |
| 18:49.52 | pie | Leeds, know anything about fedora? |
| 18:50.00 | Leeds | very very little |
| 18:50.10 | Leeds | like... I know what it is, if that helps :-) |
| 18:50.22 | pie | Hmmm. |
| 18:50.48 | pie | I was hoping for a *little* bit more ;) |
| 18:51.03 | pie | up2date/yum problems see. |
| 18:51.20 | pie | I have started using RH9 and fedora after a couple of years of Debian |
| 18:54.41 | pie | OK, I seem to have solved it, wrong gpg imported into RPM. |
| 18:55.07 | pie | I got my sparc booting off the network |
| 18:55.10 | pie | eventually |
| 18:55.23 | pie | It wasn't as difficult as I thought it might be. |
| 19:00.19 | evangineer | pie: be sure to come to this's month's gllug meeting where nasrat, our resident expert on the topic will be speaking about fedora. |
| 19:00.34 | pie | Yeah, I heard, I hope I can make it |
| 19:00.39 | ar | does anyone know a reasonable method to convert from latex to word? |
| 19:01.12 | murb | do, buyt have you seen http://www.tkachenko.com/blog/archives/000024.html ? |
| 19:02.17 | pie | Oooh, cunning |
| 19:08.07 | pie | Anyone know the difference between Fluid ATA100 and ATA100? |
| 19:08.25 | pie | some hard disks on scan today only, the Fluid option seems to add a couple of quid. |
| 19:10.39 | pie | Hmmm, seems like fluid barings. |
| 19:26.27 | Leeds | bah, bloody so-called 'working hours' |
| 19:28.47 | rhowe | Seems I'm 60 quid past my overdraft limit |
| 19:31.42 | rhowe | The rain is evil tonight |
| 19:31.45 | rhowe | Freezing |
| 19:31.47 | rhowe | Windy |
| 19:35.47 | pie | Hmmm, red hot chilli |
| 19:35.55 | pie | I could never skip food. |
| 19:36.38 | pie | It is so cold outside that it is cold inside. |
| 19:36.49 | pie | no choice there rhowe |
| 19:37.06 | pie | I was thinking of turning the rest of mine on. |
| 19:37.07 | rhowe | pie: Hence my being in bed. Cold and wet outside. |
| 19:37.12 | pie | Aaaah |
| 19:45.47 | pie | Hmmm, chilli. |
| 20:07.43 | *** join/#gllug armijn (~armijn@losser.labs.cs.uu.nl) |
| 20:12.57 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@host-212-158-207-148.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 20:13.49 | rhowe | chilli good |
| 20:14.50 | Leeds | yes |
| 20:14.57 | Leeds | Bamba good |
| 20:16.03 | armijn | bambi? |
| 20:16.41 | Leeds | Bamba |
| 20:17.02 | Leeds | Israeli snack |
| 20:17.40 | armijn | ah |
| 20:17.46 | armijn | with deer in it? like bambi? |
| 20:18.12 | Leeds | nope |
| 20:18.17 | Leeds | with peanut butter in it |
| 20:18.20 | armijn | deep-fried bambi |
| 20:18.24 | armijn | on a stick! |
| 20:18.52 | Leeds | hmmm |
| 20:19.22 | armijn | uh-oh, I think I might have unleashed my bizarre imagination... |
| 20:20.45 | armijn | still in the box, just carried it from the train station to my home\ |
| 20:20.58 | armijn | now I've got big muscles and stuff |
| 20:21.08 | murb | well put it on charge! |
| 20:21.24 | murb | do you have a dual power supply computer to use it with? |
| 20:21.24 | armijn | not yet, need to unpack it first, read manual, etc. |
| 20:21.30 | Leeds | read what? |
| 20:21.35 | murb | reading the manual...?! |
| 20:21.52 | armijn | no, I need it to filter out powerspikes and dips and so, so I won't wreck another Alpha powersupply |
| 20:22.18 | murb | so you can't migrate to it without a power down. |
| 20:22.32 | armijn | well, first I need to install new PSU in the Alpha |
| 20:23.14 | murb | i could bring summer ot this room, i could switch on my Multia! |
| 20:23.43 | armijn | hmm, heat? or radiation? :) |
| 20:24.00 | armijn | I remember getting a flaming headache from our Apple //c monitor |
| 20:24.13 | armijn | ah, those were the days... |
| 20:24.20 | armijn | a real 9" monitor... |
| 20:25.08 | armijn | now you have to spend days and days behind a computer to get a decent headache, that was, well, not near instant, but pretty soon |
| 20:25.17 | armijn | s/soon/quick/ |
| 20:25.24 | armijn | well, you get the point... |
| 20:29.58 | Leeds | alternatively... could get the heating fixed |
| 20:30.40 | armijn | b0rken heating, nice. |
| 20:49.31 | Leeds | hmm... Sun quarterly results in about 45 minutes |
| 20:50.22 | highbury | http://money.cnn.com/2004/01/14/technology/sun/ |
| 20:51.05 | Leeds | already got it open :-) |
| 21:09.32 | evangineer | Oh look! 14 new gllug emails! ;-) |
| 21:11.09 | evangineer | weird that! sylpheed is usually pretty rock-solid. |
| 21:11.19 | murb | rm -rf ~/lists/gllug/new ; mkdir ~/lists/gllug/new # now problem. |
| 21:11.20 | *** join/#gllug Nutshell (~les@82-33-169-47.cable.ubr06.wiga.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 21:11.22 | murb | s/now/no/ |
| 21:11.38 | Nutshell | hi all |
| 21:12.16 | evangineer | new2unix: Can't say I've ever had the displeasure, I have a strict no XP policy. |
| 21:12.19 | Leeds | new2unix: may I suggest a flamethrower |
| 21:12.20 | new2unix | wont read CD Drive, wont receive a dhcp lease, wont shutdown cleanly on time, often unresponsive, should i go on? |
| 21:12.25 | evangineer | hi Nutshell |
| 21:12.28 | Leeds | Nutshell: evening... how's the Python going? ;-) |
| 21:12.41 | Nutshell | evangineer: ordered that book |
| 21:12.55 | Nutshell | should arrive on thursday |
| 21:13.21 | evangineer | Nutshell: Cool, I'll probably pick up a copy next week if not sooner. |
| 21:13.31 | Nutshell | Leeds: printed out a bit of info from the webb site |
| 21:13.50 | new2unix | Leeds: sorted you sisters PC yet? what distro? |
| 21:13.56 | Nutshell | python looks very interesting should be fun |
| 21:14.40 | Nutshell | jost gotta get my head around linux now |
| 21:16.15 | Nutshell | hopefully if things go to plan ( but something always pops up ) I should be getting 2 pc's and a laptop :) |
| 21:17.42 | Nutshell | wife says i gotta convert the loft soon ( thats black mail ) |
| 21:19.50 | Nutshell | haha Cope has joined the list :) |
| 21:20.08 | murb | wot list? |
| 21:20.28 | Nutshell | Python list murb |
| 21:21.00 | Nutshell | really looking forward to this Python thing :) |
| 21:21.44 | Nutshell | murb: http://wiki.gllug.org.uk/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/LearnPython |
| 21:22.41 | Nutshell | Cope: are you here ? |
| 21:30.10 | armijn | urgh, I hate stupid mistakes |
| 21:31.31 | Nutshell | armijn: what mistakes that then ? |
| 21:32.59 | Leeds | new2unix: yeah, yeah... |
| 21:33.03 | armijn | nutshell: was doing some python...using the rpmdb module, but of course, I had the wrong RPM database opened (the one with all dependencies already resolved etc.) and I didn't get the erros I was supposed to get |
| 21:33.22 | *** join/#gllug mozrat (~simon@host81-130-178-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 21:33.39 | mozrat | Cope: Hi |
| 21:33.49 | Nutshell | armijn: sorry for asking a bit beyond me |
| 21:33.58 | mozrat | Well in fact; everyone: Hi |
| 21:34.08 | Nutshell | hi mozrat |
| 21:34.43 | mozrat | Nutshell: Hello |
| 21:35.09 | Nutshell | looking at the fedora channel and there are 347 ppl there never been so busy |
| 21:36.11 | Leeds | hmm... 4c loss |
| 21:37.22 | armijn | nutshell: it's OK, I solved it now |
| 21:37.35 | armijn | leeds: so no money to fix that heating now? |
| 21:37.36 | evangineer | hi mozrat |
| 21:38.08 | mozrat | evangineer: Hi, did you make any more progress on that Python studly group? |
| 21:38.11 | Leeds | armijn: nah, that's not too bad |
| 21:39.51 | evangineer | mozrat: as I told Nutshell earlier I'm looking for at least five people to signup before taking further action. |
| 21:39.56 | *** join/#gllug cupis (~paul@i-195-137-116-73.freedom2surf.net) |
| 21:40.03 | evangineer | Fortunately, we are almost there. |
| 21:40.56 | armijn | heh, python is pretty sweet |
| 21:41.03 | armijn | and guido, who invented it, is a really nice guy |
| 21:41.22 | mozrat | Cool -- did you intend a online study group or something where I would actually have to brush my hair? |
| 21:41.36 | Leeds | yup, Guido++ |
| 21:41.47 | evangineer | online study is what I had in mind |
| 21:42.14 | Nutshell | mozrat: I never brush my hair it's the just got outa bed syle :) |
| 21:42.16 | evangineer | armijn Leeds: how long have you guys been coding in Python |
| 21:42.37 | mozrat | Nutshell: that is the fashion I hear |
| 21:42.57 | Nutshell | what with a bold patch |
| 21:43.11 | armijn | evangineer: not much of a coder these days, but on and off for a few years |
| 21:43.14 | Leeds | evangineer: started looking at it about 3.5 years ago, but been using it seriously for a couple of years |
| 21:43.17 | Nutshell | I look like a mad monk so the wife says |
| 21:43.20 | mozrat | Nutshell: yeah, why not |
| 21:43.46 | Nutshell | be yourself thats what i say ( but who's to say I,m right |
| 21:44.11 | mozrat | ibot seen cope |
| 21:44.15 | | cope is currently on #gllug. Has said a total of 54 messages. Is idling for 5h 39m 50s |
| 21:44.32 | mozrat | cope is a man with good news apparently |
| 21:44.56 | evangineer | armijn Leeds: have you seen http://wiki.gllug.org.uk/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/LearnPython |
| 21:45.30 | Leeds | evangineer: sure... it's on my machine :-) |
| 21:46.03 | armijn | I have now |
| 21:46.12 | evangineer | as you are both experienced Pythoneers, you could act as mentors to the study group giving tips and advice. |
| 21:46.28 | murb | or you could just JFDI |
| 21:46.45 | armijn | murb: Join For Dirty Insults/ |
| 21:46.46 | armijn | ? |
| 21:46.55 | Leeds | just fucking do it |
| 21:47.01 | Nutshell | lol |
| 21:47.09 | Leeds | a very common term at work - seriously :-) |
| 21:47.21 | murb | useful when people are talking about doing stuff. |
| 21:47.24 | armijn | hmm, there was amn insult in there after all :) |
| 21:47.30 | Nutshell | Leeds: you can tell your a nothener :) |
| 21:47.35 | *** join/#gllug stephen (stephen@windsor.org.uk) |
| 21:47.46 | Leeds | Nutshell: :-) |
| 21:48.57 | Cope | Woo Leeds! |
| 21:49.09 | Leeds | evangineer: well... I wouldn't call myself a Python guru, but happy to help... |
| 21:49.13 | Leeds | Cope: hello there |
| 21:49.22 | Cope | Hello everyone. |
| 21:49.39 | Nutshell | Hello Cope |
| 21:50.24 | evangineer | Leeds: thanks it would be helpful to have onboard someone who was experienced in Python. |
| 21:50.28 | Leeds | the weather's too bad for Lonix |
| 21:50.49 | Cope | Sounds pretty grim outside, from wind howls and rain battering. |
| 21:50.59 | Leeds | evangineer: note that if there were a few more people, who wanted to buy the same book, a discount *may* be negotiable... |
| 21:51.01 | Cope | mozrat: ping |
| 21:51.22 | evangineer | Leeds: point taken! |
| 21:51.39 | Cope | Hi evangineer :o) |
| 21:51.46 | evangineer | Hi Cope |
| 21:51.52 | mozrat | Cope: reply from et |
| 21:51.53 | mozrat | c |
| 21:52.34 | mozrat | Cope: didn't get a chance to say "well done" earlier |
| 21:52.39 | mozrat | Cope: well done |
| 21:53.04 | Cope | mozrat: thanks. |
| 21:53.29 | mozrat | Cope: when do you start? |
| 21:53.32 | Leeds | Cope: so it's official? |
| 21:53.36 | Cope | Monday |
| 21:53.43 | Tarragon | Congrats |
| 21:54.39 | Cope | Leeds: Yeah - I phoned today to ask why I hadn't had anything in writing... had they lost some of my paperwork etc.... they blinked and said 'Sorry... just turn up on Monday and we'll sign contracts and induce you etc etc' |
| 21:54.53 | mozrat | Cope: marvellous... the only thing that sucks about a new job is commuting back n forth waiting for the first paycheque |
| 21:55.09 | Cope | Tarragon: thank you :o) |
| 21:55.26 | Leeds | Cope: congrats |
| 21:55.47 | mozrat | whay |
| 21:55.59 | mozrat | err I mean what is the firms URL |
| 21:56.36 | Leeds | Cope: so is William impressed? |
| 21:56.47 | Cope | www.digex.xo.uk |
| 21:57.07 | Cope | Leeds: William wriggles approvingly. |
| 21:57.17 | Leeds | heh |
| 22:00.46 | Cope | lo nasrat |
| 22:02.04 | mozrat | Cope: did you find 3 references? |
| 22:02.49 | Cope | mozrat: heh - 1 real and 2 old colleagues who now work elsewhere who were prepared to say nice things about me. |
| 22:04.07 | mozrat | good enough! |
| 22:05.15 | nasrat | hi all |
| 22:05.42 | Leeds | evening nasrat |
| 22:06.19 | Nutshell | nasrat: you got something to do with the fedora project ? |
| 22:07.19 | nasrat | Nutshell: to some extent. I hack on various bits, do bug triaging, etc |
| 22:08.15 | Leeds | nasrat: ah, you're an unpaid Redhat employee? :-) |
| 22:08.51 | Nutshell | nasrat: cool on the fedora channel there are around 305 ppl never seen so many must be getting quite populor :) |
| 22:08.53 | nasrat | Leeds: that's the one |
| 22:09.13 | nasrat | Nutshell: I tend to concentrate on -devel |
| 22:09.25 | Nutshell | Nutshell uses fedora :) |
| 22:09.48 | pie | 'lo nasrat |
| 22:10.51 | nasrat | hey pie |
| 22:11.11 | pie | I fixed a yum problem with fedora |
| 22:11.11 | Cope | hello pie |
| 22:11.36 | pie | it seemed that the wrong gpg key was distributed with fc1 |
| 22:11.46 | pie | I imported the correct key and it worked, |
| 22:11.52 | pie | does that sound about right? |
| 22:12.12 | pie | 'lo cope |
| 22:13.03 | Nutshell | pie: I've had no problems with the gpg key ? |
| 22:13.26 | Nutshell | Leeds: where you download from ? |
| 22:13.34 | nasrat | pie: there are about 3 keys in /usr/share/rhn/*KEY* |
| 22:13.49 | pie | Ah, I downloaded a new one. |
| 22:14.04 | Leeds | Nutshell: bittorrent |
| 22:14.11 | Nutshell | ho ! |
| 22:14.23 | pie | OK, I see the other key now. |
| 22:14.37 | pie | all this RH stuff is pretty new to me. |
| 22:14.43 | pie | I am impressed with fedora though |
| 22:15.08 | Nutshell | I want x-files season 8 my ISP's news sever screwed up while that was being posted :( |
| 22:15.47 | Leeds | I sort of stopped using NNTP |
| 22:15.58 | pie | I hardly ever used it. |
| 22:16.17 | pie | I reckon I have used it for about an hour in my whole life |
| 22:16.32 | nasrat | gah I could do with a beer |
| 22:16.48 | Leeds | I still use Usenet plenty... I don't use NNTP for downloading stuff though |
| 22:17.08 | murb | UUCP? |
| 22:17.26 | Leeds | no, no |
| 22:17.31 | Leeds | I read newsgroups |
| 22:17.39 | Leeds | but I don't get binary crap over NNTP |
| 22:17.45 | pie | it is my last one :( |
| 22:17.56 | murb | Leeds: i doesn't that count as downloading? |
| 22:18.01 | murb | i was being a bit too literal. |
| 22:18.05 | murb | i used to run local Inn |
| 22:23.49 | Nutshell | put some heating on then Leeds |
| 22:24.46 | armijn | heh |
| 22:24.51 | Leeds | bah |
| 22:24.55 | armijn | I guess that actually is the problem ;-) |
| 22:26.31 | Leeds | woo! |
| 22:27.37 | armijn | heh |
| 22:33.33 | pie | Oooooh, basic instinct is on TV. |
| 22:34.11 | pie | The cinematography is second to none. |
| 22:34.54 | mozrat | Yes, thats why I watch it... |
| 22:35.13 | Nutshell | pie: is that the one with sharon stone and the you know what ? |
| 22:38.10 | Nutshell | night all :) |
| 22:45.09 | armijn | well, nearly beddietime here |
| 22:45.10 | armijn | cu |
| 22:45.11 | *** part/#gllug armijn (~armijn@losser.labs.cs.uu.nl) |
| 22:53.15 | pie | Boioiooioioiooiioiooiooing |
| 22:54.10 | Leeds | 2252 and all's well? |
| 22:55.35 | pie | Hmmm. Yes |
| 22:56.14 | pie | The data I am inserting into my database is still going after 4 hours |
| 22:56.23 | pie | the DMOZ data |
| 22:58.36 | evangineer | pie: you're using sybase aren't you? |
| 22:58.40 | pie | Ooooh, the structure has loaded, 601198 records. The content is next |
| 22:58.50 | pie | 1942000 records and counting |
| 22:59.05 | pie | no, this is a personal project, using perl and postgres |
| 22:59.15 | evangineer | okay |
| 22:59.23 | pie | C*ldfusi*n and syb*se at work. |
| 22:59.40 | evangineer | What sybase version? |
| 22:59.48 | pie | sec |
| 23:00.47 | pie | 11.9.2 |
| 23:01.16 | evangineer | that was the version they made available free for development and deployment. |
| 23:01.33 | pie | coldfusion 4.5 (what we use) is about 7 years old. |
| 23:01.34 | evangineer | it should still be downloadable, but I'd check |
| 23:01.48 | pie | ta |
| 23:02.18 | evangineer | the sybase should still be downloadable, don't know about the coldfusion |
| 23:03.09 | pie | No, I have called macromedia, they are checking our serial number with allaire |
| 23:03.27 | pie | if it was registered, we can have new media, if it was not, we can't/ |
| 23:03.39 | pie | I am trying to get them to use PHP |
| 23:04.01 | pie | Any idea what the sybase database 'product' is called? |
| 23:04.15 | evangineer | let me check |
| 23:04.18 | martin | evening all |
| 23:05.17 | pie | g'day sport. |
| 23:05.53 | JD_ | wethrin: ping |
| 23:06.10 | pie | martin: a/s/l |
| 23:06.11 | pie | ;) |
| 23:06.19 | pie | are you in London? |
| 23:07.13 | murb | oh hi dpash |
| 23:07.20 | pie | Oooooh, the content is loading much faster now the structure is in, 2109000 processed so far. |
| 23:07.37 | evangineer | pie: I believe that would be sybase adaptive server |
| 23:07.46 | pie | Thanks |
| 23:08.37 | pie | looks like version 12.5.1 is a developers edition. |
| 23:08.47 | pie | I sooooo want to move everything to postgres |
| 23:08.52 | pie | sybase is a bitch. |
| 23:09.47 | Leeds | well, that was fun |
| 23:10.06 | evangineer | pie: http://www.sybase.com/detail?id=1011127 |
| 23:10.53 | pie | Oooooh, thanks. |
| 23:11.06 | pie | evangineer: How do you know so much about sybase? |
| 23:11.57 | evangineer | pie: until I was made redundant I worked with it fulltime |
| 23:12.12 | evangineer | pie: print out and keep a copy of this http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/print/4323/ |
| 23:12.21 | pie | thanks |
| 23:12.23 | JD | can people look at http://wiki.earth.li/JD and comment on my personal statement for me |
| 23:13.09 | evangineer | pie: anytime you need someone to work on Transact-SQL stored procedures, give me a shout |
| 23:13.39 | pie | evangineer: do you know postgres? |
| 23:14.10 | evangineer | pie: not yet but it is on my list of things to do this year |
| 23:14.50 | evangineer | pie: I have a copy of PostgreSQL Essential Reference sitting on my shelf |
| 23:15.22 | pie | Hmmm. The new Project Mabager is not afraid to hire consultants, email me your email address and I will keep it in case we decide to do something with sybase (like a migrateion) |
| 23:15.26 | pie | is you are interested |
| 23:15.33 | pie | Project Manager |
| 23:15.48 | pie | will@hellacool.co.uk |
| 23:17.59 | pie | back |
| 23:21.25 | evangineer | pie: definitely interested. will mail you. |
| 23:21.40 | pie | JD: I am probably not the best judge of this sort of thing, my CV is poor. |
| 23:22.09 | pie | evangineer: There is nothing definite yet, it depends on what I can persuade them to do, and if we can do it in house |
| 23:22.24 | pie | but I will keep your email address if something comes up |
| 23:22.35 | Leeds | hmm... Andy Parsons on They Think It's All Over |
| 23:22.40 | pie | martin: no, go away, you had your chance. |
| 23:22.45 | martin | :) |
| 23:22.50 | pie | ;) |
| 23:22.57 | martin | how's you? |
| 23:23.08 | pie | Oh fine, got a pay rise. |
| 23:23.15 | pie | um, jobs OK |
| 23:23.16 | Leeds | woo |
| 23:23.18 | martin | Cool. |
| 23:23.22 | pie | not enough though |
| 23:23.38 | pie | I am going to continue looking for other jobs in Mancheter |
| 23:23.49 | rhowe | wtf? |
| 23:24.06 | pie | rhowe: Gravity. |
| 23:24.37 | rhowe | GIMPnet, Undernet, oftc, EFnet, Aniverse, all just pinged out |
| 23:24.52 | pie | bummer. |
| 23:25.04 | rhowe | All reconnected now, but still, odd |
| 23:25.25 | pie | Arrrrrgh, Aieeeee! |
| 23:25.41 | pie | My data load died 2392000 records in! |
| 23:25.54 | murb | rhowe: must be your flaky network connection. |
| 23:25.54 | pie | 4.5 HOURS IN! |
| 23:26.01 | Leeds | argh |
| 23:26.09 | pie | I really really hate dmoz. |
| 23:26.26 | pie | what the hell is this ---->? charachter |
| 23:26.39 | rhowe | murb: Well it wasn't someone hitting lots of ports on the fw, that's for sure |
| 23:26.46 | pie | and why the hell do they feel the need to include it in the data? |
| 23:27.00 | Leeds | ? |
| 23:27.40 | rhowe | *sigh* |
| 23:27.43 | pie | I have run the text through iconv and umap and STILL there are shitty chars in there. |
| 23:28.06 | pie | How the hell do I get rid of these chars from a text file? |
| 23:28.18 | Cope | sed? |
| 23:28.21 | pie | not well-formed (invalid token) at line 15448536, column 12, byte 789079562: |
| 23:28.21 | pie | <ExternalPage about="http://www.adfree4u.com/mall-b5"> |
| 23:28.21 | pie | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:28.21 | pie | ===========^ |
| 23:28.36 | pie | pah. |
| 23:28.55 | rhowe | & every byte with 0x7f? :) |
| 23:29.53 | pie | Um, I huess that should mean something. |
| 23:30.02 | pie | what is 0x7f? |
| 23:30.09 | pie | apart from hex? |
| 23:30.24 | rhowe | pie: 127, which should make everything low ASCII |
| 23:30.44 | rhowe | pie: It's not a very good solution though, since then you'd lose all your fancy charset support |
| 23:30.45 | pie | Hmmm. |
| 23:31.05 | pie | Yes, there are a hell of a lot of fancy chars i the ODP data |
| 23:31.15 | pie | it is utf-8 (allegedly) |
| 23:31.27 | rhowe | And you couldn't include stuff like “this is a quote” |
| 23:31.55 | pie | I am not entirely sure what I am talking about when it comes to charachter sets. |
| 23:32.06 | pie | rhowe: I ? |
| 23:32.14 | rhowe | Well if those characters were UTF-8, they don't display in this font |
| 23:32.16 | Leeds | I found a good UTF FAQ a few weeks ago when I needed to handle some Hebrew |
| 23:32.31 | pie | got a URL? |
| 23:32.48 | pie | rhowe: Ah, I see. |
| 23:32.53 | Leeds | um, google :-) |
| 23:33.04 | Leeds | I think it was somewhere in .ac.uk BICBW |
| 23:33.05 | pie | I have googled, I still have no idea |
| 23:33.35 | rhowe | pie: I think your chars were just munged to ?'s by either mine or your IRC clients anyway |
| 23:33.36 | pie | http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/unicode.html |
| 23:33.40 | pie | by any chance? |
| 23:34.41 | pie | rhowe: Mine showed a capital E with a backslash thing on top of it. |
| 23:34.50 | Leeds | yeah, that looks like it |
| 23:35.03 | pie | Read it already ;) |
| 23:35.09 | rhowe | pie: Can you drop it into a text file on a web server anywhere? |
| 23:35.44 | pie | yeah, but the whole file is several gig ;) |
| 23:36.05 | rhowe | Can't you just get that one line? :) |
| 23:37.04 | pie | Probably, any ideas how to extract it? vi takes a few minutes to operate on files that big... |
| 23:37.31 | rhowe | pie: I guess grepping for d:Title is going to bring up many many hits |
| 23:38.03 | pie | Yep |
| 23:38.08 | pie | however... |
| 23:38.53 | rhowe | :s/adfree4u.com\/mall-b5 should jump you to the line above.. then you can press Vy to yank the line |
| 23:39.31 | pie | running umap utf8:utf8 over the file removes 24 bytes worth of data, that might help |
| 23:39.31 | rhowe | Well, in vim at least.. not sure about true vi |
| 23:39.39 | pie | I meant vim ;) |
| 23:39.59 | pie | vim is opening the file |
| 23:40.19 | pie | umap seems to do a better job than iconv. |
| 23:40.25 | pie | vim still going. |
| 23:40.35 | rhowe | I've only used recode, and I think that just aborts on invalid encodings |
| 23:41.31 | pie | As does XML::Parser, which is a problem I have had |
| 23:42.16 | rhowe | You might find it better to split your file up into chunks, on line breaks.. then at least you can work through it chunk by chunk |
| 23:42.23 | pie | vim is still going and using 50% of CPU ;) |
| 23:42.28 | rhowe | heh |
| 23:42.41 | pie | on a 1gig athlon |
| 23:42.49 | pie | BRB |
| 23:43.00 | rhowe | brb too. No food earlier was a bad idea. |
| 23:44.27 | Cope | pie: let me understand this - you're using vim on a 1G+ file to change one line? |
| 23:45.15 | Cope | Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding - I'm only half following. |
| 23:48.02 | evangineer | Cope: yes bloody yanks, it's colour not color! |
| 23:48.30 | pie | Cope: um, yes |
| 23:48.49 | pie | rhowe: I could have told you that, oh, I did ;) |
| 23:48.57 | evangineer | and to think we gave them the web! |
| 23:49.03 | Cope | pie: I see... |
| 23:49.10 | evangineer | well tbl did! |
| 23:49.34 | rhowe | hm, 1min is a bit too long to soften ice cream in a microwave |
| 23:49.40 | Cope | lol |
| 23:50.07 | pie | http://home.hellacool.co.uk/temp/wierdchar.txt |
| 23:50.26 | evangineer | rhowe: if that's what you've been reduced to, you should've braved the rain! |
| 23:50.32 | rhowe | $ file wierdchar.txt |
| 23:50.32 | rhowe | wierdchar.txt: UTF-8 Unicode text |
| 23:51.10 | rhowe | where $UNKNOWN is not in this font |
| 23:51.25 | rhowe | Oh, it's not i |
| 23:51.34 | pie | Yep, my system is handling it it seems |
| 23:51.34 | rhowe | it's... odd |
| 23:51.42 | pie | E with a backslash on top of it. |
| 23:51.57 | rhowe | not here.. |
| 23:52.40 | pie | Nope. |
| 23:52.44 | rhowe | http://www.siksai.co.uk/~rhowe/weirdchar.png |
| 23:53.42 | murb | urgle.! |
| 23:53.43 | pie | Hmmmm, sounds good |
| 23:53.50 | pie | I got to go to bet though |
| 23:53.52 | pie | later |
| 23:54.01 | evangineer | I'm with murb on this one! |
| 23:54.06 | rhowe | pie: Did you see the screenshot? |
| 23:54.16 | rhowe | hm.. what to add to the beans.. |
| 23:54.30 | Cope | rhowe: toothpaste |
| 23:54.33 | pie | Yep, looks like you might be handling the char better than me... |
| 23:54.50 | rhowe | pie: 10 points if you can name the char though :) |
| 23:55.03 | evangineer | Cope: don't encourage his madness! |
| 23:56.30 | pie | The Extimpulate char. |
| 23:56.35 | pie | 10 points to me. |
| 23:57.13 | pie | Now you all need to work out if I made that up, or not... ;) |
