irclog2html for #gllug on 20040511

00:03.56rhowehm, I never realised Battle Royale was actually a good film. Never watched it before
00:09.10*** join/#gllug gregj_ (~gj@80.46.37.169)
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06:52.02SlayerXPmorning
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08:13.43Leedsmozrat: what sort of timescale do you want/expect the python stuff to get active on?
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08:41.37sparkesSlayerXP, martin?
08:41.42sparkeslong time no irc
08:41.56SlayerXPmorning
08:42.04SlayerXPI've beem here a while :)
08:42.07SlayerXPbeen
08:42.27sparkesJust shows how much attention I pay
08:42.38SlayerXP:)
08:42.44murbyou've not been here that long.
08:43.08SlayerXPin the global scheme of things, I suppose not
08:43.24SlayerXPsparkes: what are you up to these days?
08:43.35sparkeswww.lugradio.org
08:43.49*** join/#gllug ar (~ar@bob.nooneishere.co.uk)
08:43.51sparkesI taught at wolves college for a couple of years
08:44.00sparkesback to freelance development again
08:45.01SlayerXPinteresting looking project
08:45.50sparkesyeah, I just get to swear infront of a mic twice a month
08:45.54sparkes;-)
08:46.04sparkesjust add a mic to real life rants really
08:46.25sparkeswhat are you up too , SlayerXP?
08:46.36SlayerXPwell, other than a recent radio appearance.... :)
08:46.45SlayerXPI've just finished a two year contract
08:47.30SlayerXPI think I might see how many antibody units I can sell over the next 6 months
08:47.59sparkeslol, you and me both
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08:48.16jason_ukfsnmorning all
08:48.20SlayerXPmorning jason
08:48.31sparkesmorning jason_ukfsn
08:48.41SlayerXPother than that "playing with my new digicam" is all I'm doing
08:48.51Kyojigood
08:48.53SlayerXPhttp://www.hinterlands.org/mjumacro2.jpg
08:49.29jason_ukfsnSlayerXP, that and argueing about whether or not it's supermacro on an IRC channel? ;)
08:49.44SlayerXPthat too, yes.
08:49.58sparkesnice
08:49.58sparkesI've got a Fuji S602
08:50.09Kyojito all,, which LUG of london is main lug ?
08:50.41SlayerXPKyoji: is that a trick question?
08:50.55Kyojiis it? sorry!!
08:51.09sparkesKyoji, I would have thought the greater one ;-) but I am from the midlands and size is important here
08:51.11sparkes;-)
08:51.32murbwell GLLUG covers much of the UK.
08:51.48KyojiMmm, thanks.. anyway I'm from Korea,,
08:52.11Kyojiso how can i be a member of gllug?
08:52.45KyojiI'm studying here..from this september..
08:52.47murbyou can join the mailing list.
08:52.56*** join/#gllug irvined (~irvined@adsl-239-121.as15758.net)
08:52.57murband you can irc, and you can come to the pub with us
08:53.01murbno sorry that is Lonix :)
08:53.08murbcome to a meeting then the pub with us :)
08:53.18KyojiMmm Okay..
08:53.38Kyojiwhen meeting?
08:53.56Kyoji22nd May?
08:53.59murbwhen advertised on the gllug-announce mailing list.
08:54.07murbKyoji: and /topic, so probably.
08:54.11KyojiOkay many thanks..
08:55.22SlayerXPKyoji: you can become a member by saying to people "I'm a member of GLLUG"
08:56.26SlayerXPgllug is very exclusive
08:56.26sparkesrepeat that five times infront of the mirror follow up with "1 am a good person" then bury your money under the apple tree
08:56.41SlayerXPonly people who want to be a member can join
08:56.42sparkesor failing that just do it the SlayerXP way ;-)
08:57.38KyojiKeke.. Okay.. "i'm a member of GLLUG~~~~~~"
08:57.54sparkesMe Too!
08:58.38sparkesbbl - food and caffine required
09:06.46SlayerXPwhen is the next meet?
09:07.02murbSlayerXP: /topic
09:07.31SlayerXPahh yes
09:07.33SlayerXPwell spotted
09:07.46SlayerXPwell, won't be going to that one then :)
09:21.36jason_ukfsncor, this channel just became very exclusive!
09:22.30jason_ukfsnarg! bloody idiot users of Outlook
09:22.51SlayerXPmost outlook users have the defence of ignorance
09:23.30SlayerXPexcept the one chap I knew who had an animated html signature
09:24.14jason_ukfsnI have an adsl user who is insisting that he doesn't have to pay his subscription charges because his email client cannot get his email from our server.
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09:25.15jason_ukfsnI've verified that the problem is a known one with Outlook and that his account is fine but this idiot insists that Outlook is the most commonly used email software and that anything that Outlooks doesn't work with must be broken.
09:28.16jason_ukfsnps ax
09:28.32jason_ukfsnwrong window - I blame my wife for distracting me ;)
09:28.46SlayerXPjason_ukfsn: seems like he has a valid argument to me :)
09:30.04jason_ukfsnSlayerXP, how? The fault is known to be in the client software. Every other client I have tested it with works fine. Outlook is the only one to fail (it drops the connection early so that the user cannot grab email from the POP3 server).
09:30.19wethrinMorning
09:30.27*** join/#gllug amias (~amias@amias.force9.co.uk)
09:30.33SlayerXPi was trolling, ignore me
09:30.37murbjason_ukfsn: agree and bill them for your time.
09:31.17jason_ukfsnback in a mo
09:32.39wethrinUnfortunately if the most-used piece of client software is broken, then server software normally have to bend over to work around it
09:34.17ari would have through Outlook Express was more widely used?
09:34.56wethrinOutlook in office environments
09:36.59argood point
09:48.47jason_ukfsnwethrin, servers shouldn't be broken to handle the errors in one client. Server software has to comply with standards so that all clients software has equal footing. Breaking the server to satisfy one client may well break it for others.
09:50.03jason_ukfsnThe nature of the problem is also something that it would be hard for any server software to deal with - the client drops the connection early in the standard conversation (ie connect -> USER -> PASS -> LIST -> drop)
09:51.13LeedsI suggest a copy of Thunderbird, wrapped around a brick
09:52.15amiasanyone tried using a usb wireless network adapater from a pc running linux ?
09:52.28jason_ukfsnI've suggested he use other software. Perhaps your suggestion is a better idea Leeds. Now should I print the source on paper and wrap that around the brick or burn it to CD, break up the CD and glue that (sharp edges outward) to the brick?
09:52.45Leedsthe latter, I think
09:54.25wethrinA brick isn't very big - just print out the source to the POP3 daemon instead :)
09:56.35Leedsa brick is plenty big enough when applied to the skull at speed
09:56.46wethrinTrue
09:57.11wethrinI've known people ot use Outlook without any problem
10:10.21*** join/#gllug laomao (~laomao@wibbleworld1.demon.co.uk)
10:28.13Leedswe've seen problems with things like Outlook+huge mailbox+left running overnight
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10:40.24jason_ukfsnThe problem here isn't associated with large mailboxes. It seems that Outlook will close a connection prior to all commands being completed on the server such that email doesn't get downloaded at all and the all the server can see if that the client no longer responds
10:40.45murbjason_ukfsn: pop3?
10:41.28rhowejason_ukfsn: Outlook 2000?
10:41.58jason_ukfsnpop3 yes. Outlook (version unknown)
10:42.09murbjason_ukfsn: what daemon? tpop3d?
10:42.15jason_ukfsnyes murb
10:42.23murbhmm i had some issues with that and eudora.
10:42.29murband tls.
10:42.54jason_ukfsnmaybe it's the tls thing then as I have that compiled in for those who don't like clear text passwords being sent over the net
10:43.19SlayerXPMSO and MSOE support TLS quite well
10:43.58jason_ukfsnThe connection isn't using TLS though.
10:45.06murbSlayerXP: some version have some serious TLS implementation issues.
10:45.26murbthat is ify ou try and send them toomuch data at once, they'll time out and throw a hissy fit.
10:48.24wethrinI had problems a couple of years ago with KMail and POP/TLS - it connected, downloaded 1 mail, and then ended up timing out
10:48.52jason_ukfsndo you know which pop3d that was with wethrin?
10:49.15murbjason_ukfsn: tpop3d now has a setting to reduce data sent at once, to try and fix these issues people have been having.
10:49.21jason_ukfsnI know that tpop3d used to have a timeout issue but that bug was apparently squashed last year.
10:49.24murbatleast in cvs, don't know if they've done a release recently.
10:49.30murbjason_ukfsn: it wasn't abug.
10:49.36murbatleast it was a client not a server bug.
10:51.07jason_ukfsnhow recently was that added to cvs murb? I'm running 1.5.3 which is 8 months old now.
10:51.30murbjason_ukfsn: I'm not sure.
10:52.06jason_ukfsnI'll try grabbing from cvs now and diff it against 1.5.3 to see what's changed.
10:52.48murbwell it is a new setting, so it should be farily obvious.
10:53.22wethrinjason_ukfsn: I can't remember
10:57.07jason_ukfsnhmm, the changes file indicates a couple of possible improvements for this. I shall give it a try.
11:02.38*** join/#gllug RevRob (RevRob@dsl-217-155-194-206.zen.co.uk)
11:02.57*** join/#gllug Leeds (~rc112576@boron.eu.sun.com)
11:03.16RevRoball those who hate looking for a job please raise their hands
11:03.18mozratmorning RevRob Leeds
11:03.28RevRobMorning
11:03.33murbRevRob: oh dear?
11:03.39murbsomthing bad happened?
11:03.39RevRobIndeed
11:04.14RevRobcompany decided that while doing the redunantcy run this month they would sack the only system admin wiht more then 3 months of experience.  
11:04.35murbRevRob: obviously you were too expensive.
11:04.40murbor somthing :(
11:04.44wethrinRevRob: :-(
11:04.44RevRobThe "new" sysadmin is a guy that spell Linux with this hands tied behind his back, but only taken 1 linux course last month.
11:04.45Leeds:-(
11:05.07wethrinlinux course != linux clue, though
11:05.32RevRobindeed
11:05.39murbRevRob: so they decided you were redudant for somereason?
11:05.49RevRoboh my, my cv on Planet Recuit is most out of date
11:05.57mozratI thought redundancy was good in computer networks... oh
11:05.59murbwhat blackmail material does new sysadmin have on senior managment?
11:05.59RevRobmurb, yup.
11:06.00jason_ukfsnRevRob, make it clear to management that they can call upon you as a consultants later when everything has gone down the pan due the lack of clue.
11:06.02mozratthats different
11:06.15murbRevRob: or were you just more expensive?
11:06.20SlayerXPI'm rather enjoying job hunting
11:06.28SlayerXPluckily I don't really need to find one this year :)
11:06.31RevRobThe CTO Resigned last week over a number of issues, one being that some of his team will be let go but they wouldn't tell him who.  So he quit
11:07.50RevRobMurb, I did cost most then other other windows admins, but I was the sole supporter of the entire live customer facing operations of 30 servers.. the windows guy looked after 6 or 7 servers that only supported the internal folks
11:07.55murbI'd like to find a job not in uk, however the place wher ei'd like to find job his high unemployment, and i have a very poor grasp of the native language.
11:08.14wethrin.lu?
11:08.19murbwethrin: no way!
11:08.24jason_ukfsn.ru?
11:08.28jason_ukfsn;)
11:08.33murbjason_ukfsn: in the EU
11:08.40jason_ukfsn.po?
11:08.46wethrinpo?
11:08.50RevRobI was gonna say .tv will you said that
11:08.51wethrinDYM .pt, or .pl?
11:08.51murbi'd like more of work.
11:08.58murbnot a new EU member.
11:09.07RevRobgood god man, tell us
11:09.12jason_ukfsnI meant .pl
11:10.07murbRevRob: no it is just a dream, that i don't need shattering today.
11:10.15RevRobhaha oh ok
11:10.20murbI'm fragile enough.
11:14.51jason_ukfsndoes anyone here have access to a box with Outlook on it?
11:15.09jason_ukfsnI need someone to help me test my pop3d
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11:15.36jason_ukfsnafternoon zachary
11:15.41zacharyafternoon
11:25.51Leedsone of my collegues just turned his laptop on and the screen came up a funny colour, so he smacked it around for a minute or two until it worked :-)
11:26.48wethrinheh
11:30.14wethrinPercussive hardware maintenance
11:30.39RevRobOpen office does a horrible job of exporting Word files to HTML.. http://www.uk-experience.com/resume/resume-rmckenzie.html
11:42.55anthjason_ukfsn: I'll help you
11:44.46jason_ukfsnanth, just a moment - I need to set up a test account (or do you have a ukfsn account?)
11:45.00anthno
11:46.12murbdoes http://www.dublincity.ie/wasteinfo/index.htm # work for anyone in mozilla?
11:51.22zacharymurb, moz: no, konqi: yes
11:59.36wethrinCan anyone recommend reliable hard drive models? And also places that would sell them cheaply?
12:06.14anthsorry, away for a bit. will try now
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12:18.09anthit doesn't seem to want to want to use port 111. will try 110
12:18.47anthgot 4 messages
12:20.34anthcouldn't find the right place to tell it which port to use
12:20.52anthfound it now, so if you want me to try again...
12:21.43anthsame 4 messages there
12:22.35anthall seems to be working OK on both ports
12:27.56anthThis is on outlook 2002 (10.3513.3501) SP-1
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12:35.32jason_ukfsnindeed I was
12:44.10*** join/#gllug George (~Test@adsl-165-222.freeuk.com)
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12:45.35Georgehi Jenson
12:45.39Jensonheya
12:47.18LeedsJenson: any developments on the Watford stuff?
12:47.56Jensonim gonna call them at some point to tell them im not going, watford is too far away to work anyway
12:48.27JensonLeeds: only got out of bed at 1, woke up earlier feeling sick with bad headache, too some cold/flu stuff and went back to sleep, seem to be ok now
12:48.36murbhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3704101.stm # hmmgrr.
12:48.37rhoweYeah, who'd work in Watford? :)
12:48.41Georgehehe
12:50.00Georgeheh
12:50.04GeorgeI happily don't work.
12:53.17wethrinGeorge is a drain on society :)
12:54.45Leedsmore like a drain on his parents, I think
12:55.31wethrinA profit-driven company is not going to be putting safety first.
12:56.53Leedsthe theory is to tie performance to pay, thereby forcing them to care
12:57.12wethrinYeah, but that doesn't happen in practice
12:57.41murbwethrin: why not?
12:57.57murbif you have apublic company they all care about being paid and going on strike at the first second.
12:58.03wethrinThey always seem to end up doing the least they can get away with
12:58.26murbi don't think it matters if they are public or private, i thihnk they like to be public because then they thihnk they can get away with more.
12:58.36Leedswethrin: are you accusing them of being human or something?
12:58.48wethrinSuits aren't real humans
12:58.49*** join/#gllug George (~Test@adsl-165-222.freeuk.com)
12:58.49wethrin:)
13:00.37Leedsneither, apparently is George... real humans don't bounce that much, apart from gregj maybe
13:01.53wethrinGeorge is a Suit(TM)?
13:02.11rhoweWhee http://ichart.yahoo.com/z?s=SCOX&t=1y&q=c&l=off&z=m&p=s,v,b&a=w14,vm,fs
13:02.16wethrinGrr. IDE sucks.
13:02.24murbrollercosterish?
13:02.49rhoweIf you call Oblivion at Alton Towers a rollercoaster :)
13:03.46murbi like the bbcs graphcs where they get them from better.
13:04.02*** join/#gllug George (~Test@adsl-165-222.freeuk.com)
13:05.15rhowe52wk Range: 3.27 - 22.29
13:05.24Georgegrr
13:05.26GeorgeI hate school internet
13:05.42murb^internet^^ # what you are supposed to say.
13:07.54Jensonwhen is the general election?
13:09.11XiaoqiJenson: next year i think...
13:09.33JensonXiaoqi: coz there is anti-BNP posters suddenly arrived everywhere round here
13:09.45Xiaoqihehehe
13:09.50murbJenson: there are council elections
13:10.08murbteh general election is sometime between now and the last one + 5 years.
13:10.13murbor somthing.
13:10.19murbi can't rember is it 5 or 6 years?
13:10.36Xiaoqithought it was 4...
13:11.11murbXiaoqi: normally it is about 4
13:11.15murbbut it isn't fixed.
13:11.19murbit just has a max.
13:11.20Jensonits european parlianment and london assembly evidently
13:11.35murbeuropal, which has no power anyway.
13:11.41murband local elections
13:11.53Jensoni remember there was local council elections last year
13:12.00wethrin5 years is max
13:12.13murbor somthing.
13:12.18Xiaoqiah, ok
13:12.22murbJenson: not everywhere.
13:12.37murbI've not seen any publicity or anything for the europal elections.
13:12.50Jensonis it true that not everyone gets to vote in general eklections coz some people are allocated to vote local and some general
13:12.59LeedsJenson: no, that's nonsense
13:13.02Jensonmurb: well it was Braintree District Counicl elections last year
13:13.20murbJenson: some people are only entitled to vote in local and eu elections.
13:13.20JensonLeeds: something tells me Costa dpoesnt know what he's rtalking about
13:13.32XiaoqiJenson: not on this subject anyway
13:13.41murbit says in the electrial register what you are entitle to vote in.
13:13.56wethrinRighty. Time for a reboot.
13:13.59murbirish and commonwealth citizens can vote in all elections.
13:14.04Jensonim guessing coz i was born here and im british that it doesnt make much differenve to me
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13:21.25wethrinRar
13:21.36wethrinMy system appears to feel better now
13:22.00wethrinAny recommendations for cleaning a laptop LCD screen?
13:23.11Jensonwethrin: baby wipes?
13:23.43Jensonmy ex-boss was just here, he thinks we've got one of his backup tapes, but i dont think we have
13:24.15wethrinDon't have baby wipes. But I guess a soft damp cloth would work
13:24.58wethrinRight. Back to revision for me.
13:25.11Leedswhat's the point of that?
13:25.13Jensonwethrin: tesco value ones are cheap, just pick some up whenm your there
13:25.19Jenson*you're
13:26.10George`CodingLeeds: you'll be glad to hear that I have cleaned up my code to adhere to the K&R style
13:26.40LeedsI assume by that that KDE doesn't have a coding standard
13:26.50George`Codingit probably does
13:26.54George`CodingI've never checked ;)
13:27.51Leedsanyway, I don't like K&R even though I use it at work
13:28.10wethrinThe K&R has weird indentation. And doesn't use tabs.
13:28.38George`Codingyes, the only exception is that I'm using tabs
13:28.57wethrinTherefore you're not using a K&R style
13:29.09George`Codingfine then.
13:29.38JensonI just read that prepay oystercards will work on buses from may 16 if anyone needs to know that
13:30.17wethrinSo you're using 5-character indents too, then?
13:30.29wethrinAhh. Excellent. That's be quite useful for me (sometimes)
13:31.08Jensonwell it means i can go between here and David/Alex's and Toms for 70p instead of a pound
13:31.11wethrin(or, in your case, you've set your tab to 5 characters)
13:31.40LeedsGeorge`Coding: 80-column lines?
13:32.05wethrinLeeds: Wasn't it 78? (giving 2 spare)
13:32.35George`CodingLeeds: no
13:33.25wethrinI tend to use a mostly-K&R-style (but using 4 character indents, rather than 5)
13:33.59wethrinAnyway, Fortran<=77 has it right - anything beyond column 70 is treated as a comment :)
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13:35.37George`Codinghrmmph
13:36.59Jensonyay there is £15.40 on my oyster card, i thought there was like 3 pound
13:37.21George`Codingoyster card?
13:37.41wethrinLondon Transport SmartCard
13:37.54George`Codingah
13:39.24amiaswhat are the chances of a motherboard with a bios from 06/14/1999 and a UDMA 33 controller being able to use a 120gb+ IDE hard disk ?
13:40.02wethrinWhat OS?
13:40.07amiaslinux
13:40.09Jensonanyway m off into town, meeting emmanuel soon
13:40.10wethrinYes
13:40.13Jensonseeya
13:40.16wethrinbye
13:40.41wethrinThe BIOS may have problems with it, but OSes that don't use the BIOS calls for disk access are fine
13:43.56KyojiWhat kind of LInux are you guys using??
13:44.11LeedsSlackware... OS X... Solaris...
13:44.16KyojiI'm using Gentoo.
13:44.53amiasRedhat 9
13:44.56amiasx 2
13:45.05amiasand Netgear Linux on my router
13:45.21Kyojiwhat is Netgear Linux ?
13:45.25wethrinI tend not to use Linux.....but Slackware if I have to
13:45.31Kyojiyou mean the router os ??
13:45.50amiasyup , its a little shiney mips box running 2.4.17
13:46.46amiasshould i go for USB or PCI ?
13:47.17wethrinPCI
13:47.18amiasthis box is only 450mhz will that slow down usb ?
13:47.21KyojiPCI
13:47.32wethrinWDYM "only" 450? :)
13:47.52wethrinPeople used to be more than happy with 2MHz machines.
13:48.06wethrinAnd did far cooler stuff then they do now
13:48.40Leedspassive cooling though
13:48.42SlayerXPthe coolest thing I ever did with a computer was on an acron electron
13:48.45murbamias: get an MA311 if you want somthing that works.
13:48.46SlayerXPacorn
13:48.48murband is PCI.
13:49.06murbI belive there are some prism54 cards that also work, but i'm not sure of exact models.
13:49.15SlayerXPI wrote an assembler routine to allow the screen to be in two different modes, top and bottom
13:49.19amiasanyone had much success with the pci card hosting pccard wirless cards ?
13:49.19LeedsI've got... hang on
13:50.00murbamias: I have a pcmcia prism2 card in the holder which came with it , which works.
13:50.03KyojiI've got INTEL PRO wireless....
13:50.17murbamias: but if you just want 11mb 802.11b get a netgear MA311.
13:50.20murbthey are cheap and they work.
13:51.05amiasi can go up to g with my AP but for web browsing i guess b would be ok
13:51.37murbamias: as i said there are some support 54g cards, i think prism54.org has alist.
13:52.22LeedsI can't remember the make of mine... netgear or linksys... 802.11g pci - works fine with a cvs driver
13:53.18LeedsI got mine because it was on the prism54 list, but it doesn't use the prism54 driver
13:53.25KyojiI think linksys is more powerful than netgear..
13:54.01LeedsI can tell you what lspci calls it - but that's just the chipset, not the make :-0
13:58.58amiasthanks for the tips y'all
13:59.04amiasi'm off to do battle with TCR
14:53.21Leedsrhowe: ping
14:55.54rhowepong
14:57.53Leedsanyone know an easy answer to convert a gif into a .ico for favicon.ico?
14:59.11wethringimp?
14:59.18wethrinA .ico is a 16x16 bmp
15:00.08Leedsthat's what I thought, but apparently not
15:01.34*** join/#gllug Clyphox (~clyphox@82-35-127-97.cable.ubr01.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk)
15:02.07ClyphoxMoo
15:04.52rhoweconvert foo.gif foo.ico?
15:05.02rhoweWindows' .ico format is not BMP
15:05.34rhoweWindows 95 could be tricked into using a BMP file though
15:06.52ClyphoxI just use bmp's myself
15:07.06Leedsno, it's not that - I solved it
15:08.28LeedsI thought you just needed to create the file, but it turns out you also need to link it with a <link> tag in the index.html
15:08.50rhowelink rel="icon" or somesuch?
15:09.09Leeds<link rel="shortcut icon" href="/favicon.ico" type="image/x-icon"> seems to work :-)
15:09.32Leedsoh, and convert - at least the versions we've got lying around - won't write to .ico
15:13.26Clyphoxtried converting it with imagick?
15:14.50rhoweconvert and imagemagick are closely-related, I thought?
15:15.04Leedsconvert *is* imagemagick
15:15.08rhowe$ convert The\ Ring.jpg The\ Ring.ico
15:15.08rhoweconvert: Width or height exceeds limit `The Ring.ico'.
15:15.36rhoweSo long as your image is the right size, it looks like it'll work with Debian sid's imagemagick
15:15.41Leeds$ convert tvtime.png tvtime.ico
15:15.41Leedsconvert: No encode delegate for this image format (tvtime.ico).
15:16.07jason_ukfsnthere is a utility available what is specifically for creating ico files. Google is your friend.
15:16.15ClyphoxI'm pretty sure .ico can be either gif or bmp
15:16.17rhoweVersion: ImageMagick 6.0.0 04/30/04 Q16 http://www.imagemagick.org
15:16.35LeedsVersion: ImageMagick 5.5.7 08/20/03 Q16 http://www.imagemagick.org
15:16.40Leedsthat might explain it...
15:16.50rhoweClyphox: No it can't. All versions of Windows after '95 (or '98) allow the use of BMP or GIF format images as icons, however.
15:17.11rhoweClyphox: The ICO image format is something different, AFAIK
15:18.31Clyphoxdidn't know that there eas an official ICO format.. remember opening alof of them with paint back in my pre-linux days thats all
15:18.51sparkeshttp://www.favicon.com/
15:18.57sparkesan online converter
15:19.01sparkesprobably convert
15:19.07sparkesthat's what I used
15:19.12rhoweIt's an actual binary dump of the icon resource, found in Windows binaries
15:19.15rhoweOr so it seems
15:19.50sparkeshang on wrong url
15:20.32rhoweHang what on it?
15:21.07sparkeslol
15:21.20sparkeshttp://www.winterdrache.de/freeware/png2ico/index.html is a png2fav icon program
15:22.16rhowe$ convert The\ Smaller\ Ring.jpg The\ Smaller\ Ring.ico && file The\ Smaller\ Ring.ico
15:22.19rhoweThe Smaller Ring.ico: ms-windows icon resource - 1 icon
15:23.03sparkesdo you just want a ring icon?
15:23.11sparkescos www.kryogenix.org has one
15:23.19sparkesI am sure aq wouldn't mind sharing ;-)
15:23.32rhoweThe Ring.jpg is my fiancee's engagement ring :P
15:24.08sparkesoh a little more important
15:24.09sparkes;-)
15:24.13Clyphoxhehe
15:25.48sparkesrhowe, perhaps you should have found and icon and got the little lady to have ring that looked like that
15:26.07sparkes\me slaps myself for that
15:26.14sparkeslol
15:26.27sparkesI missed first time
15:43.39rhoweheh
15:48.59*** join/#gllug George (~Test@adsl-165-222.freeuk.com)
15:50.22George*yawn*
16:31.34wethrinAnyone here have opinions of the new Western Digital Caviar drives?
16:40.19murbnot recent.
16:40.29murband recent is what matters for these sorts of things.
16:42.29wethrinIndeed. I have heard complaints about them a few years back, but I think they were fixed a long time ago
16:42.56murbwethrin: are there any manufactures who have made disks that haven't failed?
16:42.57gregjanyone who uses jboss+velocity here ?
16:47.01wethrinI don't think that that's possible
16:47.10wethrinPhysical devices will always wear out eventually
16:47.21wethrinWell, I've got a WD and a Seagate in my server, and both work
16:54.08*** join/#gllug JAV (~JAV@105.Red-80-34-40.pooles.rima-tde.net)
17:11.49gregjhttp://www.ipv6.btexact.com/tutorials/ultima.html
17:11.57gregjis there anything for linux that does it ?
17:14.39wethrin6to4?
17:15.25gregjyes
17:15.37gregjI guess this allows me to create internal only ipv6 network
17:15.47wethrinPossibly :)
17:16.08gregjand router that will translate requests too ::IPv4-ip to ipv4 external things
17:16.26gregjs/too/to/
17:16.36murbNAT-PT is intersting.
17:16.44murbsomeone is working on a linux kernel implementation.
17:16.58gregjthis will be cool
17:16.59murbalthough it is sort of depending on cf_netfilter
17:16.59gregj:-)
17:17.07murbs/cf/ct/
17:17.20gregjwell, I guess it is netfilter module or something
17:17.38murbgregj: generic connection tracking for v4 and v6
17:17.45wethrinFeel Free to write one yourself :)
17:18.09gregjright
17:18.24gregjif I will have enough time, and someone will pay me, sure why not
17:18.33murbbeing written by the USAGI guyes based on the paper by Harald Welte.
17:18.53murbthere is already a KAME nat-pt.
17:19.39gregjfor *bsd
17:19.41gregjyack
17:20.27gregjwethrin: on what basis does bt exact tells me sometimes that tunnel expiired ?
17:20.49gregjwethrin: I am using it all the time, is it just becaause I am not login onto tunell broker or something ?
17:21.41*** join/#gllug George (~Test@80.168.165.222)
17:22.01wethrinI don't know
17:22.03wethrinMine works :)
17:22.09gregjI got email today from them saying that one of my tunnels expired
17:22.13gregjit wasn't used for 25h
17:22.23gregjbut they didn't gave me reason in email
17:22.29wethrinAhm.
17:22.40gregjmaybe they do kill it after few h of inactivity
17:22.42gregjdunno
17:23.12murbgregj: well if you want a new tunnel, i can recommend SixXS
17:23.25murbthey have multiple pops including one in London.
17:23.34murbhttps://www.SixXS.net
17:23.59gregjno thanks
17:24.09gregjthese are fine, at least for no
17:24.11gregjnow
17:24.39wethrinHm. My link appears to have dropped
17:24.59gregjthey do have problems withroutting sometimes thou
17:25.14gregjor maybe it is not on their sitee, dunno, I have to traceroute
17:25.15wethrinI can ping their IPv4 address, but not their IPv6 address
17:25.45gregjyou're from  ip4 or ipv6 now ?
17:26.02wethrin4
17:26.12gregjme too
17:26.23gregjthere is gjkopete onlinne, from ipv6
17:26.37*** join/#gllug gjkopete (~gj@2001:618:400:0:0:0:d412:e31a)
17:26.42*** part/#gllug gjkopete (~gj@2001:618:400:0:0:0:d412:e31a)
17:26.49gregjso it is working here :D
17:26.49wethrinhm
17:26.59gregjcheck your email :D
17:27.00wethrinThey may have dropped my tunnel, then.
17:27.04wethrinI do :)
17:27.21gregjthey send me email saying that
17:27.36gregjand I was able to setup tunnel, and ping their router
17:27.38gregjbut nothing more
17:28.02gregjanother thing I want to ask you
17:28.07gregjthere is dns name point.zlew.org
17:28.16gregjresolving for one of mmy tunnels
17:28.57gregjbut if feed tunnel broker with it, it saids to me that address is not valid or something
17:32.22wethrinHrm
17:32.42wethrinDid you add an appropriate default IPv6 route?
17:32.57wethrin# host point.zlew.org
17:32.57wethrinHost point.zlew.org not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
17:33.08wethrinThere is no DNS. HTH HAND
17:33.25wethrinAnd while you fix it, I'm off for food :)
17:35.04gregjI guess ipv6 uses AAAA record, n A record
17:35.31gregjgj@thinkpaddie:~$ ping6 point.zlew.org
17:35.32gregjPING point.zlew.org(2001:618:400::51db:906) 56 data bytes
17:35.32gregj64 bytes from 2001:618:400::51db:906: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=136 ms
17:35.43gregjgj@thinkpaddie:~$ host -t AAAA point.zlew.org
17:35.43gregjpoint.zlew.org          AAAA    2001:618:400:0:0:0:51DB:906
17:35.46gregjit resolves fine here
17:52.23wethrinYeah, but they want an IPv4 resolution
17:52.43gregjwa*****
17:52.45gregjwhat for ?
17:53.17gregjI want revDNS for ipv6 address, not ipv4
17:59.12wethrinAh, no okay.
17:59.36wethrinWhen did you put in the DNS entry?
17:59.43wethrinIt may need time to propagate around the 'net
18:00.16gregjit was about 20 days ago
18:00.33wethrinHj
18:00.34wethrinHm
18:00.37gregjtry ping6 point.zlew.org
18:02.41wethrinNo point, if I can't even get to the other end of my link
18:02.49Georgemoo
18:03.11gregjwethrin: can you resolve it with host -t AAAA
18:03.16gregjwethrin: no need to have ipv6 to do that
18:03.35wethrinNXDOMAIN
18:03.42Georgeheya wethrin, gregj
18:04.20wethrineyup
18:04.33gregjmaybe your dns doesn't support ipv6
18:04.34gregj:D
18:04.40wethrinYes it does
18:04.41wethrin:)
18:04.51wethrinProbably supported it for longer than yours has :-P
18:05.00gregjphi
18:05.04gregjI have bind9
18:05.04gregj;p
18:05.16wethrinLikewise
18:05.22*** join/#gllug adb9 (~andrew@81.2.66.249)
18:05.29wethrin9.2.2
18:05.56gregjVersion: 1:9.2.3+9.2.4-rc2-1
18:05.59gregj;p
18:06.01gregjbusted
18:06.05wethrin?
18:06.24*** part/#gllug adb9 (~andrew@81.2.66.249)
18:07.42gregjwell, mine is newer
18:07.43gregjisn't
18:08.08gregjgj@thinkpaddie:~$ named -v
18:08.09gregjBIND 9.2.4rc2
18:08.54gregjwish I had dog
18:09.14gregjsomething will force me to go for walk few times a day
18:10.13gregjhttp://szpajder.w.staszic.waw.pl/ustron/ustron-3d-2.jpg
18:10.15gregjnice map
18:10.16gregj:D
18:11.05wethrinGo for a walk anyway
18:11.32gregjI will
18:11.58wethrin:)
18:12.29gregjI wonder what program generates such nice maps
18:13.13gregjhttp://szpajder.w.staszic.waw.pl/sts-107/jgfred/
18:17.58gregjwethrin: http://szpajder.w.staszic.waw.pl/rotfl/Bluetoot.jpg
18:18.44wethrin:)
18:20.15gregjhttp://szpajder.w.staszic.waw.pl/rotfl/ariane.jpg
18:21.35wethrinheh
18:22.19SpudULikewethrin: SkyEar, for that was the balloon thing in Greenwich, was to be last Tuesday but got cancelled due to the bad weather. No news of a new date yet, so I have a second chance!!!
18:23.15wethrinAhh, excellent
18:23.56SpudULikeHTTP://WWW.haque.co.uk/skyear.php is the link to note.
18:24.02gregjhttp://szpajder.w.staszic.waw.pl/rotfl/rotfl.jpg
18:24.14gregjinternet is really hard to understeand, but ppl even more
18:24.14gregj:D
18:27.32gregjwethrin: http://szpajder.w.staszic.waw.pl/rotfl/why-not-qmail.png something for you as welll :D
18:29.30GeorgeARGH, GCSES START IN 7 DAYS!!!
18:29.39wethrinGCSEs are easy
18:29.46Georgewethrin: they're BORING!!!!!!!
18:29.51LeedsGeorge: dude... they finished almost 12 years ago!
18:29.53wethrinYou'd better start revising
18:29.57GeorgeLeeds: heh
18:30.00gregj:-)
18:30.01Georgewethrin: maybe
18:30.04wethrinNo, that was O levels' :)
18:30.09wethrinWithout the apostrophe
18:30.32Georgeheh
18:30.38Leedswethrin: nope... I was the 2nd or 3rd year to do GCSEs
18:30.44GeorgeI managed to sleep all day without being disturbed at school. That's amazing.
18:30.56gregjwethrin: http://szpajder.w.staszic.waw.pl/rotfl/wyniki_egzaminu.jpg regarding exams, in Polish only, sorry :D
18:31.08wethrinHm, so qmail really uses old-style K&R syntax
18:31.12gregjthis guyy had a sense of humor
18:31.34wethrinBut....coding style isn't (to me) a reason to use, or not use, a program.
18:31.44SpudULikeI can't get used to my girls referring to things like 'year 7' for 1st year in secondary school. When did that start???
18:32.09wethrin1993
18:32.15LeedsSpudULike: yeah, that really confuses me too
18:32.25wethrinI was the first lot of 'Year 8's
18:32.40wethrinBefore, they were all '2nd year's
18:32.49GeorgeAnd I think I'm going to fail maths
18:32.50Georgelol
18:32.53SpudULikeSo 6th form is what???
18:33.00GeorgeI got a grand 30% in the first mock of this term.
18:33.33LeedsGeorge: really?  GCSE maths was bloody easy when I took it 13 years ago - and it must be much easier now
18:34.01wethrin6th form is still 6th form, but sometimes referred to as Years 12 & 13
18:34.36SpudULikewethrin: That's just stoopid then, in'it!
18:35.50wethrinYeah, but you get paid £30/week to stay on now
18:36.03murbwethrin: it is means tested.
18:36.08murbwhich means?
18:36.16murboh your parents, how funny.
18:36.19wethrinHow mean the person is?
18:36.34murbdoes this mean they will start charging to tirtuary education?
18:36.34GeorgeLeeds: I did GCSE maths last year...
18:36.38SpudULikeTested by mean people?
18:36.39GeorgeLeeds: this is AO maths
18:36.48murbafterall they were never going to charge for undergradeuate stuff.
18:36.50GeorgeLeeds: and the fact that I have taken no notes over the past year don't help
18:36.52wethrinAO? So something useful like calculus?
18:37.00Georgewethrin: yes
18:37.07wethrinBut that's piddlingly easy
18:37.10George;)
18:37.19Georgeheh
18:37.55wethrinI suppose they don't even do matrices, do they?
18:38.16murbwethrin: wot like multiplcation and addtion and stuff?
18:38.44wethrinThat, and finding determinants, is pretty much all you do with them
18:39.05Georgewethrin: probably not
18:39.10Georgewethrin: what's a matrix :)
18:39.18wethrinWeren't you paying attention in class?
18:39.25Georgenot really
18:39.30wethrinThat was silly, then :)
18:39.36Georgeheh
18:39.41Georgenah, matrices aren't on the syllabus
18:39.50Georgeit'll probably be done next year (doing 3 maths A levels)
18:39.51wethrinGo look it up. It's a 2D numerical structure
18:40.04wethrinThey should be covered in pure maths
18:41.09Georgeyeh
18:41.09Georgeok
18:41.15Georgewell, I'll be doing it then
18:41.19gregjno, not coding style, way it is coded
18:41.23GeorgeI should be doing pure maths modules 1-6
18:42.05wethrinThat's quite meaningless, really. I only did a 4-module Pure course
18:42.12wethrin(as in, only 4 on offer)
18:42.22wethringregj: As long as it works...
18:44.15gregjwell
18:44.18gregjthat's not always the case
18:44.42gregjwindows works as well....
18:44.43gregj:]
18:45.19wethrinSure, and I'd use it if there's something that it does that other systems don't do
18:53.07Georgeibot change 200 CAD to GBP
19:07.51*** join/#gllug adb9 (~andrew@81.2.66.249)
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19:48.00*** join/#gllug George (~Test@adsl-165-222.freeuk.com)
20:12.32JDbut they'll trust you with some weird 25 year old?
20:13.12wethrin?
20:13.25GeorgeJD: ?
20:13.28GeorgeJD: thanks
20:13.51GeorgeJD: just read my kde-gb post?
20:14.14*** join/#gllug mozrat (~simon@host81-130-111-151.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
20:14.31mozratgood evening
20:14.35wethrin'lo
20:14.42mozratjust the man!
20:15.02mozrathow much is your server space you rent?
20:15.08mozratand is it any good?
20:15.44*** join/#gllug George (~Test@adsl-165-222.freeuk.com)
20:16.57wethrinIt works for me :)
20:17.02JDGeorge: any chance you could have astable net connectin any time soon
20:17.02wethrin£400/year
20:17.11GeorgeJD: bleh
20:17.12wethrin1Mbit, in mailbox.
20:17.22GeorgeJD: no
20:17.25GeorgeJD: not unless I'm at home
20:17.48GeorgeJD: so was that comment you volunteering to take me to Germany in August? :)
20:17.58wethrin*today
20:18.05JDwethrin: ah functional is fun
20:18.15murbGeorge: why would you want to go to germany?
20:18.21murb(i would, but why wyould you?)
20:18.22mozratwethrin, is it a virtual server or your own box? or does 400 rent the hardware as well?
20:18.23Georgemurb: KDE World Summit 2004
20:18.30murbahah.
20:18.34murbGeorge: where is it happening?
20:18.38wethrinIt's my own box
20:18.43GeorgeLudwigsburg, Stuttgart Region
20:18.51wethrinJD: Yes, it is. But it requires me to twist my brain into weird ways
20:18.51mozratwethrin, thanks
20:19.01wethrinYou looking to rent, or to colo?
20:19.34mozratWell I don't have a server at the moment for what I have in mind, so I would either buy a cheap one or rent
20:19.43wethrinFair enough.
20:19.48mozratDell 1650s aren't much now days
20:19.54Georgemurb: http://conference2004.kde.org
20:20.10murbGeorge: are you going?
20:20.14Georgemurb: yes.
20:20.23wethrinev1servers.net are cheap, but don't expect support
20:20.27Georgehrmm, setting up "nightlife"
20:20.33murbI'm not that up on Kde so i wouldn't be going, but i might be going to LinuxTag
20:20.39murbanyone else up for LinuxTag?
20:20.44GeorgeI can't go to LinuxTag
20:20.50Georgesmack in the middle of my GCSEs :)
20:21.04murbI was offered one last year.
20:21.15murbGeorge: scary!
20:22.05wethrinmurb: No, he's a baby :)
20:22.33Georgemurb: I've only just turned 16 ;)
20:23.13murbscaryu someone born in 1988!
20:23.40murbbut then even my ickle sister is 21
20:24.04murbGeorge: well good luck in your GCSEs, but they are piss easy...
20:25.21Georgemurb: heh
20:26.29murbGeorge: I know i'm pretty thick, and i got quite a few without trying so, 9 years later..
20:26.32murbit must be easier.
20:26.42Georgelol
20:26.46GeorgeI want straight A*s
20:28.42wethrinThat requires you to spell your name properly, doesn't it?
20:29.13Georgewethrin: I can spull mah nume
20:31.19Georgebrb
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20:43.40gregjhttp://www.sco.pl/
20:49.23*** join/#gllug George`NotHere (~george@adsl-165-222.freeuk.com)
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21:04.36*** join/#gllug TestG (~c0a80707@adsl-165-222.freeuk.com)
21:05.18TestGhrmm
21:05.22TestGIRC Proxy seems to be working
21:10.01TestGgrmbl
21:10.06TestGThis IRC proxy is really annoying.
21:10.30*** join/#gllug George (~Test@adsl-165-222.freeuk.com)
21:12.35Georgehrmmph
21:15.10rhoweso when're we having this beermeet?
21:16.51murbwhen we are in the pub drinking.
21:18.33mozratwassup murb? crashing?
21:18.39gregjmozilla or kmail
21:18.44gregjevolution is bad
21:18.46gregjevil
21:18.52wethrinGnome--
21:18.55gregjit's in gtk (mozilla too)
21:19.08gregjand has 10000000 lines of very ugly code
21:19.24wethrinDoesn't Mozilla have the same? :)
21:19.26Georgewethrin: i love you
21:19.34wethrin?
21:19.44gregjmozilla mail is writen in JS and XML
21:19.50gregjon top of gecko
21:19.56Georgewethrin: <wethrin> Gnome--
21:20.03wethrinAhh, right.
21:20.07gregjgnome sux
21:20.14Georgegregj: I love you too
21:20.22Georgegregj: although being a KDE developer you have to say that anyway :)
21:20.34murbmozrat: corrupt camel store.
21:20.34gregj:]
21:20.35wethrinKDE sux too ;-)
21:20.44Georgewethrin: I hate you
21:20.45gregjcan I have op  for a second ?
21:20.57gregj:>
21:21.00wethrinOnly if you kick George :)
21:21.03Georgegregj: not another "let's all kick George" sessions?
21:21.09Georgewethrin: bugger off ;)
21:21.11gregjwethrin: I can do it as well
21:21.42wethrinheh
21:22.08GeorgeI had op for a whole hour once
21:22.20Georgebut Leeds deopped me before I kicked him in revenge
21:23.14GeorgeJD: are you going to akademy then?
21:24.54JDGeorge: currently unlikely
21:25.46GeorgeJD: bah
21:25.52GeorgeJD: find someone to drag me along with
21:28.09wethrinI used to use KDE, until I grew out of it :)
21:28.39Georgewethrin: bah
21:28.42Georgewethrin: what do you use now?
21:29.26wethrinAqua. Or Windowmaker. Or fvwm2.
21:29.39Georgefvwm2?!?!
21:29.44wethrinfvwm2
21:29.49murbnought wrong with fvwm2
21:30.02Georgehrrmph
21:30.10Georgewhat's wrong with KDE?
21:30.14wethrinIt has virtual desktops. And it doesn't get in the way
21:30.16wethrinKDE it bloated
21:30.26GeorgeI disagree
21:30.36wethrinBut...it is.
21:30.48GeorgeI still disagree
21:30.50wethrinWhy?
21:30.57wethrinYou think it's lean and small?
21:31.00Georgebecause I have to
21:31.05wethrin?
21:31.16GeorgeI'm meant to love KDE
21:31.17George:)
21:31.44wethrinWhy?
21:32.00GeorgeI think it's probably part of the TOC for a kde.org email address
21:32.01George;)
21:32.09Georgeer.
21:32.25Georges/TOC/terms and conditions/;
21:34.15wethrinHave you read them?
21:34.30Georgeno, I'm talking about the unwritten terms and conditions :)
21:34.44wethrinSo a load of crap, really
21:34.59Georgegah, you're so blunt
21:35.03wethrinYes
21:35.06Georgeyou can't see a joke if it's staring you in the face
21:35.15*** join/#gllug Tarragon (~john@spc1-stkp3-3-0-cust204.manc.broadband.ntl.com)
21:35.19wethrinJohn!
21:35.19Georgeyou probably think isihac is a drama
21:35.29TarragonWoot! Fedora core 2
21:35.38wethrinWhat? It's not a soap?!
21:36.03wethrinTarragon: That's a reason for a w00t?
21:37.14TarragonWell after the trouble I have had to get it yes
21:38.14wethrinBittorrent?
21:39.12TarragonNah! Russian friend I know. Also got Suse 9.1 boxed etc middle of last week
21:39.32TarragonAnd just for you Slack 9.1
21:39.42wethrinWoohoo!
21:40.46TarragonWell I thought I had better give it a real chance before complaining about it
21:40.53wethrinGood man :)