| 00:07.33 | Leeds | bah |
| 00:07.59 | dcleric | still no more than 8 bits colour? |
| 00:08.17 | Leeds | so, kylix, of course, isn't a fully native Linux thing - it does some wine stuff |
| 00:08.24 | Leeds | nah, I got 24-bit colour, no problem |
| 00:08.29 | dcleric | kewl |
| 00:08.37 | dcleric | been to that part of the US before? |
| 00:08.40 | Leeds | or maybe 16 - either way, it's a lot nicer than 8 |
| 00:08.42 | Leeds | sure |
| 00:08.49 | eye69 | I think I'm going to compile Firefox from CVS. The precompiled stuff is dog slow. |
| 00:09.05 | dcleric | not far from SF, as i recall. used to spend quite a bit of time in Lafayette |
| 00:09.07 | Leeds | eye69: dunno about cvs, but I tend to compile it myself |
| 00:09.11 | dcleric | hope your event goes well |
| 00:09.45 | Leeds | dcleric: I work for a *large* IT company based around here - this is my 5th trip over here to work, as well as one trip to NYC for LWE a few years ago |
| 00:09.46 | eye69 | Leeds: I run most things from Debian packages, but firefox is just too slow to be useable. |
| 00:10.24 | eye69 | I'm running Opera now. |
| 00:10.55 | Leeds | I'm running opera on one the the three screen in front of me - firefox on one, mozilla on the other |
| 00:11.45 | dcleric | i find i need IE, Moz and Opera running, if i want to see all sites i need to get to. some sites will work on one, but not the other two. IE+crossover |
| 00:12.17 | Leeds | g'night |
| 00:12.34 | dcleric | bon soir |
| 00:12.56 | eye69 | I've had to use it a couple of times. The forum at Saitek for instance. |
| 00:22.13 | eye69 | Leeds: Do you get Firefox by default now? |
| 00:22.33 | Leeds | what do you mean by get? |
| 00:22.40 | eye69 | Ie. when I build it. |
| 00:23.19 | eye69 | I remember that I had to have a file in the source root to get Phoenix earlier, but I haven't compiled it in ages. |
| 00:23.47 | Leeds | oh, no... there's still some pretty arcane stuff |
| 00:25.48 | Leeds | I don't know what it is, off the top of my head - but I know that my collegues documented it decently when they did the Solaris builds - so go look at that readme |
| 00:29.39 | *** join/#gllug ar (~ar@du-069-0189.access.clara.net) |
| 00:30.04 | eye69 | Ahhh, the mozconfig file. |
| 00:41.29 | JAV | bedtime, good night |
| 00:46.06 | Leeds | night |
| 00:50.51 | eye69 | Well, with that compiling I'm returning to my Doom3 gaming. |
| 00:52.38 | Leeds | eye69: it's good? |
| 00:53.10 | eye69 | It's scary. |
| 00:53.25 | Leeds | scary-good? :-) |
| 00:54.24 | eye69 | Oh yes. :) |
| 00:56.26 | Leeds | cool |
| 00:56.38 | Leeds | anyway, time to head hotel-wards |
| 00:57.13 | Leeds | seeya |
| 01:58.49 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@dhcp64-134-116-205.fish.sjc.wayport.net) |
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| 08:34.45 | Trel | mornin' |
| 08:36.21 | Clyphox | re |
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| 09:38.04 | *** join/#gllug axelS (~axel@213.170.144.115) |
| 10:07.06 | axelS | anybody familiar with netopia r-series routers by any chance? |
| 10:38.28 | *** join/#gllug ]IL[Axel (~axel@213.170.144.115) |
| 10:49.11 | wethrin | 'ello |
| 10:59.17 | *** join/#gllug Katrina (~angelic@host217-44-248-187.range217-44.btcentralplus.com) |
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| 11:43.58 | *** join/#gllug zachary (~zachary@ip68-10-118-204.hr.hr.cox.net) |
| 11:51.21 | George | heya zachary |
| 12:00.32 | zachary | hey George |
| 12:02.45 | zachary | we made it safe to VA. 2 hrs sitting on the plane before we left Heathrow, fricken sensor on the plane failed.Causing us to miss our flight to VA. Big mess. |
| 12:02.58 | George | ouch |
| 12:04.14 | zachary | The kids handled it well with all things considered. |
| 12:12.40 | *** join/#gllug axelS (~axelS@213.170.144.115) |
| 12:12.46 | eye69 | Hi zachary |
| 12:15.59 | zachary | hey eye69, how's it? |
| 12:16.35 | eye69 | It's alright. |
| 12:16.52 | eye69 | Finishing up a Request Tracker install. |
| 12:38.48 | wethrin | zach! |
| 13:00.12 | zachary | Dan! |
| 13:00.41 | wethrin | How's stateside? |
| 13:02.06 | zachary | rainy |
| 13:02.17 | wethrin | Oh. It rained here this morning |
| 13:02.19 | wethrin | So you're not left out :) |
| 13:02.37 | zachary | we've got a hurricane warning |
| 13:02.58 | wethrin | ooh. |
| 13:03.19 | wethrin | Grab a beer, and sit it out |
| 13:04.00 | zachary | i'm sitting with a 6 pack of old speckeled hen |
| 13:04.11 | wethrin | Hurrah |
| 13:04.23 | wethrin | Did you snatch that from duty free, then? |
| 13:04.56 | zachary | bought it on base |
| 13:06.18 | wethrin | Ooh. So you do get some good beer still |
| 13:07.18 | zachary | yea, found some young's and leffe |
| 13:07.42 | wethrin | Excellent. |
| 13:07.49 | wethrin | So now all you need is a friendly local LUG :) |
| 13:15.20 | zachary | bbl |
| 13:15.30 | wethrin | c'ya |
| 13:15.52 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@dhcp64-134-116-205.fish.sjc.wayport.net) |
| 13:21.07 | anth | half the channel seems to be over the atlantic now |
| 13:21.30 | wethrin | Yes. Get back here, you splitters! |
| 13:24.20 | Leeds | who else is? |
| 13:24.34 | anth | you just missed zach |
| 13:24.49 | wethrin | Yes. And we shall TAX THEIR TEA! |
| 13:24.50 | Leeds | ah |
| 13:24.52 | wethrin | Muahahahahaha! |
| 13:25.24 | Leeds | without representation? |
| 13:26.10 | wethrin | Yes. The USians shouldn't have representation. Look where it's got them |
| 13:26.11 | wethrin | </troll> |
| 13:30.09 | Leeds | they do seem to have someone cocked up the whole democracy thing |
| 13:30.25 | George | hi |
| 13:30.41 | Leeds | morning George |
| 13:30.47 | George | yo Leeds |
| 13:30.54 | SlayerXP | it has often surprised me that it's the Americans who celebrate independance day |
| 13:31.23 | Leeds | SlayerXP: you mean we should be celebrating getting rid of them? |
| 13:31.50 | wethrin | Yes. |
| 13:32.05 | wethrin | Retrospectively, anyway. It wasn't good at the start. |
| 13:33.07 | Leeds | but in recent years, our government has been trying to fix that historical rift by placing us back under control of the US government, as we always should have been |
| 13:33.33 | George | lol |
| 13:33.53 | George | hrmm |
| 13:33.58 | George | lots of zaurus discussions on gllug |
| 13:34.13 | wethrin | Yeah. Silly people with those PDAs. |
| 13:34.19 | wethrin | Leeds: Yup |
| 13:34.30 | George | wethrin: want to buy mine? :P |
| 13:34.34 | wethrin | No :) |
| 13:34.45 | Leeds | hmm... they tend to do good deals on them at the shows... maybe I should keep an eye out |
| 13:35.46 | George | Leeds: for what? |
| 13:36.03 | Leeds | cheap zaurii |
| 13:36.05 | wethrin | Doesn't having an eye out tend to be painful? |
| 13:36.16 | George | Leeds: heh |
| 13:36.20 | George | Leeds: why would you want one? |
| 13:36.28 | Leeds | because they're cheap |
| 13:36.31 | wethrin | So he can sell it for a profit? |
| 13:36.34 | George | but they suck. |
| 13:36.50 | Leeds | nah, it's only the KDE-fools writing software for it who suck |
| 13:36.50 | wethrin | Psion 5s are the best ones. |
| 13:36.52 | George | I have one which I got for free. I don't even know where it is now. :) |
| 13:36.53 | wethrin | (and 5MXes) |
| 13:37.00 | George | wethrin: yeah |
| 13:37.16 | wethrin | George: Will swap your Zaurus for an iPod |
| 13:37.23 | George | wethrin: hrmm? |
| 13:37.30 | wethrin | I have a 10GB iPod |
| 13:37.44 | George | I already have an iPod. |
| 13:38.46 | anth | but surely you want to mirror your ipods to improve reliability |
| 13:38.54 | George | no. |
| 13:39.18 | wethrin | It doesn't work properly... |
| 13:39.28 | George | bahaha., |
| 13:39.38 | wethrin | So I'm getting a new one |
| 13:39.43 | wethrin | Finally! |
| 13:41.01 | George | at who's expense? |
| 13:42.19 | wethrin | Parents. Most likely. |
| 13:44.28 | SlayerXP | i threw some kid with an ipod off a train not so long ago |
| 13:44.49 | SlayerXP | got a round of applause :) |
| 13:44.58 | wethrin | Was it because of the iPod, or because of the kid? |
| 13:46.21 | wethrin | Was the train moving? |
| 13:46.24 | wethrin | I think we should be told! |
| 13:47.01 | SlayerXP | it was because he was playing techo "music" at very high volume |
| 13:47.13 | SlayerXP | on a packed 6pm commuter train this did not make him popular |
| 13:47.13 | wethrin | Ahh. That's a good reason. |
| 13:47.23 | wethrin | Although the iPod was really incidental, then. |
| 13:47.31 | SlayerXP | "excuse me, would you turn that down please?" |
| 13:47.39 | SlayerXP | "no" |
| 13:47.54 | SlayerXP | "Actually, I insist, you're annoying quite a lot of people here." |
| 13:47.59 | SlayerXP | "fuck off, arsehole." |
| 13:48.14 | SlayerXP | at that point I smiled and told him he was getting off at the next stop. |
| 13:48.18 | SlayerXP | "make me" |
| 13:48.37 | SlayerXP | so I did :) |
| 13:48.54 | wethrin | Hurrah! SlayerXP++ |
| 13:49.04 | wethrin | I take it he wasn't too happy? |
| 13:49.11 | Leeds | good job you're not over here - his parents would sue the pants off you |
| 13:49.15 | SlayerXP | he didn't seem overly enthused, no |
| 13:49.26 | wethrin | Only pants? |
| 13:50.03 | Leeds | figuratively |
| 13:50.08 | wethrin | ah. |
| 13:52.04 | SlayerXP | it was very satisfying |
| 13:52.21 | wethrin | I can imagine. How did you move him? |
| 13:52.36 | Leeds | scruff o'the neck? |
| 13:52.37 | SlayerXP | grabbed the back of him next |
| 13:52.40 | SlayerXP | neck |
| 13:52.43 | SlayerXP | yes |
| 13:53.31 | wethrin | They're rattling the ceiling here |
| 13:53.38 | SlayerXP | he tried to get back on but the train was full and people blocked the doors :) |
| 13:54.00 | wethrin | Hah. |
| 13:54.06 | wethrin | Well, techno music is shit anyway |
| 13:54.16 | SlayerXP | no |
| 13:54.24 | SlayerXP | techno music _in the right places_ in great |
| 13:54.38 | wethrin | Oh. Yes. Not in my ears. |
| 13:54.40 | SlayerXP | is |
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| 14:34.56 | Leeds | hey zachary |
| 14:40.22 | Leeds | I don't know - these people in the US who think they're too good to talk to Brits... |
| 14:40.48 | wethrin | Yeah. You're just trying to talk to US people. |
| 14:48.52 | Leeds | seeya all later, one way or another |
| 14:51.32 | *** join/#gllug Psymon (~mart@burningchrome.demon.co.uk) |
| 14:51.55 | wethrin | Don't try and hide! |
| 14:52.03 | wethrin | We know you're just SlayerXP in disguise! |
| 14:52.10 | SlayerCE | heh |
| 14:55.02 | *** join/#gllug jason_ukfsn (~jason@80.0.186.248) |
| 14:55.07 | jason_ukfsn | afternoon all |
| 14:55.30 | wethrin | hello you |
| 14:55.44 | wethrin | Can you be persuaded to drink beer at Olympia tonight? |
| 14:55.50 | *** join/#gllug eye69 (magnus@ipv6.upcore.net) |
| 14:57.45 | jason_ukfsn | I cannot drink tonight as I have duties however I was intending to imbibe on Thursday |
| 14:58.31 | SlayerCE | jason_ukfsn: fixing your reverse dns being one of them? :) |
| 14:59.04 | wethrin | Reverse DNS is overrated :-P |
| 15:01.22 | *** part/#gllug SlayerCE (~mart@burningchrome.demon.co.uk) |
| 15:01.58 | wethrin | jason@80.0.186.248 |
| 15:02.31 | jason_ukfsn | It's an NTL cable connection. Reverse DNS is totally irrelevant. |
| 15:02.45 | jason_ukfsn | anyone who cares knows how to use whois |
| 15:02.47 | wethrin | Then you should have it resolving to <foo>.ntlworld.com |
| 15:02.59 | wethrin | Anyway, shouldn't you be using your own products? :) |
| 15:03.21 | jason_ukfsn | wethrin: I don't manage NTL's DNS reverse zones |
| 15:03.43 | wethrin | Yeah, but they normally have them set correctly. I can only attribute it to NTL muppetry. |
| 15:03.59 | jason_ukfsn | I do use a UKFSN ADSL service as well but not here. I have a 1Mb UKFSN service at my place and a 600K NTL service here |
| 15:04.13 | wethrin | Ah. You're in two places at once |
| 15:04.20 | jason_ukfsn | wethrin: I am shocked at the suggestion that NTL are muppets ;) |
| 15:04.34 | wethrin | Indeed. I'm as shocked as you are when I found out! |
| 15:04.37 | jason_ukfsn | bi-location, it's a bit of a stretch but lots of fun! |
| 15:05.54 | wethrin | Microwave links |
| 15:06.02 | wethrin | Bounce it off the paranoid people's tin-foil hats |
| 15:06.08 | jason_ukfsn | Docklands to Borehamwood is a little too far |
| 15:06.11 | jason_ukfsn | LOL! |
| 15:06.29 | wethrin | Move, then :) |
| 15:07.23 | jason_ukfsn | I don't think I want to live anywhere near docklands thanks. |
| 15:07.29 | wethrin | Oh. not even for Ethernet-speed? |
| 15:08.09 | jason_ukfsn | bittorrent at 100Mb/s is nice but it's not that necessary |
| 15:08.11 | wethrin | It's over £40k, isn't it? |
| 15:08.15 | wethrin | jason_ukfsn: Sure it is! |
| 15:08.26 | jason_ukfsn | over £58,000 |
| 15:08.38 | wethrin | *nod* |
| 15:09.01 | jason_ukfsn | Given that last quarter UKFSN is only £5k below that now |
| 15:09.47 | jason_ukfsn | I need to give it another quarter or two to be sure but I suspect it will be time soon. :( |
| 15:10.03 | wethrin | Is that bad? |
| 15:10.40 | jason_ukfsn | I tried to register before but C&E wanted a £15K bond as I had a business go bust about 5 years ago. |
| 15:10.55 | jason_ukfsn | I don't have £15K to give them and wouldn't if I did |
| 15:10.55 | wethrin | Oh right. |
| 15:11.03 | wethrin | Fuck them, you mean? |
| 15:11.41 | jason_ukfsn | Things *should* be better now as there is a couple of years trading history to point to and we're approaching compulsory registration but still, as you say, fsck them. |
| 15:12.31 | wethrin | Yes. |
| 15:13.14 | jason_ukfsn | I did consider hiving UKFSN off into a separate company but that only means there will be no trading history for the new company and all the expenses of a new startup. |
| 15:13.29 | wethrin | Separate from what? UKPOST? |
| 15:14.12 | jason_ukfsn | yes. At the moment everything is through the one company - Linux Consultants Ltd. |
| 15:14.38 | wethrin | Ah, right. |
| 15:14.40 | jason_ukfsn | UKPOST isn't doing a whole lot. It pays for itself (which is not a lot) but not much more than that. |
| 15:15.09 | jason_ukfsn | I've been concentrating more on UKFSN as it's more fun. UKPOST attracks to many users with PEBCAK issues. |
| 15:15.18 | wethrin | What's the difference? |
| 15:15.41 | jason_ukfsn | see my last remark |
| 15:15.52 | wethrin | Yes, but other than that. |
| 15:17.04 | jason_ukfsn | well, UKFSN generates it's own publicity by virtue of it's purpose (funding Free Software). UKPOST will require an advertising campaign costing real money before it takes off. |
| 15:17.57 | wethrin | So UKPOST is a for-profit ISP? |
| 15:18.05 | jason_ukfsn | in theory yes. |
| 15:18.27 | wethrin | How many users do each have, OOI? |
| 15:18.32 | jason_ukfsn | In reality it has been subsidising UKFSN for the 1st year |
| 15:19.06 | jason_ukfsn | UKFSN has a couple of thousand real users and UKPOST about 10% of that. |
| 15:19.13 | wethrin | Do they have different accounts? Or do you only publish one set? |
| 15:19.42 | jason_ukfsn | Only the UKFSN accounts are published. The UKPOST ones are private. They are kept very separate for obvious reasons. |
| 15:19.57 | jason_ukfsn | Separating the accounts is actually very easy. |
| 15:20.40 | wethrin | Well, yeah, but if they all come under the blanket Linux Consultants Ltd.... |
| 15:21.25 | jason_ukfsn | I know however the flip side of that is that UKFSN has been heavily subsidised (something the financial accounts don't show except by ommision). |
| 15:21.36 | wethrin | Creative accounting :) |
| 15:21.55 | jason_ukfsn | Not so creative as segregated. |
| 15:22.40 | irvined | heh |
| 15:22.41 | jason_ukfsn | It's all a bit dull and requires a few hours of manual verification each month. |
| 15:22.56 | irvined | jason_ukfsn, you mean you havent got sql-ledger doing it all automagically? |
| 15:24.21 | irvined | :) |
| 15:24.31 | jason_ukfsn | It's not worth implenting SQL-Ledger until it does tax returns, etc properly. Otherwise I already have the necessary functionality in place for sales now. Supply tracking isn't hard as there are a handful of suppliers and not much by way of supplies. |
| 15:24.32 | irvined | jason_ukfsn, out of interest, what do you use for your accounts? |
| 15:24.52 | wethrin | Random number generator ;-) |
| 15:25.13 | jason_ukfsn | Gnumeric for summaries. Detailed stuff for sales is handled by home grown stuff used to manage the automated billing systems. |
| 15:25.18 | jason_ukfsn | LOL wethrin! |
| 15:25.20 | irvined | jason_ukfsn, at the moment im using sql-ledger, with some nasty perl scripting working out bandwidth and applyting charges as needed, and adding monthly invoicing etc. |
| 15:25.55 | irvined | jason_ukfsn, i'm working on some sql-ledgery tax return evilness at the moment, its not far off, but its very horrible code. |
| 15:26.04 | jason_ukfsn | so you still need to write your own scripts to do the real work? |
| 15:26.48 | jason_ukfsn | The real thing holding me back from sql-ledger, and other such offerings, is that they don't really work properly with fully automated provisioning systems such as an ISP has. |
| 15:28.28 | jason_ukfsn | I prefer to keep everything very simple. Gathering data as needed for taxes, etc is easy enough so long as it's possible to obtain accurate summaries and you don't have lots of different types of income/expenditure. |
| 15:29.11 | irvined | jason_ukfsn, not really, its just a case of selecting the correct reports, its fairly simple for me, becuase all the automated stuff is very easy to automate, when i create a new website, i just add its logfile, and quota, and customer number into a file, and then cron runs a script which generates the invoice, and for consultancy, i just create a new customer, and then attribute jobs etc, my main beef has been getting my head around the api for |
| 15:29.11 | irvined | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:29.27 | irvined | up until very recently i just used gnu cash and did it manually, but it was getting silly. |
| 15:29.40 | irvined | Raising 100 or so invoices a month manually was just taking forever. |
| 15:29.52 | irvined | sql-ledger does cope with vat nicely though. |
| 15:31.13 | jason_ukfsn | I couldn't find any real API documentation for sql-ledger which is why I implemented a simplified system myself. I looked at GnuCash and tried it but it is far too laborious. |
| 15:31.48 | jason_ukfsn | UKFSN generates hundreds of small transactions and it's just not worth it implementing a system that cannot be fully automated with a lot of ease |
| 15:32.05 | irvined | jason_ukfsn, yeah there isnt really any documentation for sql-ledger |
| 15:32.13 | irvined | i did most of it myself using diff and psql_dump |
| 15:32.38 | jason_ukfsn | VAT will be simple enough here - everything will be a taxable supply so it's just a matter of making the necessary calculations on totals. |
| 15:32.38 | irvined | and once i worked out how it managed the transactions, i just created a batch job to do it manually which seems to be working ok. |
| 15:32.55 | jason_ukfsn | did you write any documentation for that irvined? |
| 15:33.06 | jason_ukfsn | If you have details I could look at sql-ledger again. |
| 15:33.19 | irvined | jason_ukfsn, i'm re-writing it at the moment so that its not a complete hack, then i'll publish the documentation/scripts |
| 15:33.34 | jason_ukfsn | irvined: please let me know when you do so. |
| 15:33.54 | irvined | I've got a more or less working invoice object for perl which is fairly simple to use. should be ready in a few days |
| 15:34.41 | jason_ukfsn | Have you written it as a module? |
| 15:35.08 | irvined | yeah, its just a standalone perl module which takes the sql-ledger database, but eventually i'm aiming to integrate it into sql-ledger itself. |
| 15:35.17 | irvined | but i need to get my head around its api a bit more |
| 15:36.25 | jason_ukfsn | well all I'd need would be a perl module I can point at the database to record sales automatically. |
| 15:37.22 | irvined | i want it finished either tonight or tommorow so i'll get it sorted fairly quickly and you can see what you think. |
| 15:38.45 | wethrin | Oh dear. Idea for a game: Duke of Edinburgh 3D. Where you have to go around and insult johnny foreigner. |
| 15:38.52 | wethrin | (from $other_IRC_Channel) |
| 15:40.04 | murb | </rejs> |
| 15:40.11 | wethrin | Yes. |
| 15:40.21 | wethrin | But rejs is meaningless here |
| 15:40.44 | wethrin | (some may argue he's meaningless in t'other place too) |
| 15:40.51 | wethrin | murb: Get yourself to Olympia today |
| 15:43.40 | murb | i have other plans already. |
| 15:44.35 | wethrin | But do they involve drinking beer? |
| 15:47.59 | murb | wethrin: they involve not going to london. |
| 15:48.02 | wethrin | jason_ukfsn: Nah. I have drinking partners. |
| 15:48.06 | anth | hes at least desperate for beer, but theres nothing new there |
| 15:48.23 | wethrin | I feel like I deserve it, after debugging code for 2 days |
| 15:48.33 | wethrin | And, err, I like beer. |
| 16:23.23 | *** join/#gllug irvined_ (~irvined@82.133.46.66) |
| 16:33.35 | wethrin | Beertime! |
| 16:57.34 | JAV | evening! |
| 16:57.36 | JAV | :D |