| 00:04.40 | rdancer | hmm, time to shape my neighbour |
| 00:05.00 | rdancer | 7kBps is not the speed of my dreams |
| 00:09.44 | rdancer | i want to cap him so that i'd be forwarding his packets only when i'm not using the bandwidth myself (and give hime X kbps minimum speed) |
| 00:11.24 | mikejw | sounds like a plan |
| 00:11.45 | mikejw | see you soon guys, I'm off to bed, g'night |
| 00:15.29 | rdancer | yes, a plan. time to experimentally prove that if you punish them for behaving badly on the network, they will stop doing that |
| 00:24.03 | *** join/#gllug mz2 (~mz@81-1-73-144.homechoice.co.uk) |
| 00:35.15 | morsing | Hi again |
| 00:43.30 | *** join/#gllug rhowe (rhowe@82.133.120.56) |
| 00:47.20 | rdancer | ``The last update for kernel-source-2.4.18 in stable was in April 2004.'' |
| 08:11.32 | *** join/#gllug morsing (~morsing@morsing.plus.com) |
| 08:13.52 | morsing | morning |
| 09:20.35 | morsing | Mmm... bent control arm :-( |
| 10:06.04 | morsing | A-frame |
| 10:54.01 | *** join/#gllug mikejw (1001@81-178-126-26.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 11:13.25 | highbury | morning |
| 11:13.44 | highbury | not many of us here today |
| 11:24.21 | morsing | morning |
| 11:24.49 | highbury | did you make it yesterday? |
| 11:32.23 | mikejw | :) |
| 11:32.34 | mikejw | highbury: morning |
| 11:32.54 | mikejw | I have the same problem |
| 11:34.16 | highbury | you need a registration page on the website. Ideally it would be nice to tie it into the mailing list password, but that can happen later |
| 11:34.29 | morsing | highbury: Did I make what? |
| 11:34.43 | highbury | the meeting morsing? |
| 11:34.46 | mikejw | highbury: right ok |
| 11:34.50 | morsing | Yes I did :-) |
| 11:35.56 | highbury | you weren't the guy with gloves attached to duffel coat? |
| 11:37.07 | morsing | Mmm... No. I was the guy asking about SunRays :-) |
| 11:37.23 | highbury | ahh tall thin, with short spikey crew cut? |
| 11:37.36 | morsing | Next time I'll try to be the guy in the duffel coat :-D |
| 11:37.45 | highbury | no. no. no |
| 11:37.52 | morsing | Hmm... sounds right |
| 11:38.26 | highbury | =:-) |
| 11:44.44 | *** join/#gllug mz2 (~mz@81-1-73-144.homechoice.co.uk) |
| 12:03.52 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@host-212-158-207-148.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 13:12.25 | morsing | Leeds: |
| 13:12.27 | morsing | [root@testpc /]# mount -t udf /dev/hdc /mnt/dvdram/ |
| 13:12.28 | morsing | [root@testpc /]# ls /mnt/dvdram/ |
| 13:12.28 | morsing | DVD_RTAV/ |
| 13:12.28 | morsing | [root@testpc /]# ls /mnt/dvdram/DVD_RTAV/ |
| 13:12.28 | morsing | VR_MANGR.BUP* VR_MANGR.IFO VR_MOVIE.VRO* |
| 13:12.59 | Leeds | and what does file say about then? |
| 13:13.12 | Leeds | them |
| 13:13.16 | mikejw | morsing: are you the camelot guy? |
| 13:13.28 | morsing | [root@testpc DVD_RTAV]# file * |
| 13:13.28 | morsing | VR_MANGR.BUP: data |
| 13:13.28 | morsing | VR_MANGR.IFO: data |
| 13:13.28 | morsing | VR_MOVIE.VRO: MPEG system stream data |
| 13:13.32 | morsing | mikejw: Yes |
| 13:13.42 | mikejw | morsing: aha thanks =] |
| 13:13.50 | Leeds | VR_MOVIE.VRO is huge? |
| 13:15.32 | Leeds | ibot seen jason_ukfsn |
| 13:15.41 | ibot | jason_ukfsn <~jason@spc1-watf3-5-0-cust248.asfd.broadband.ntl.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #gllug, 23d 21h 18m 14s ago, saying: 'I'm off - wife want's to go shopping :('. |
| 13:16.03 | Leeds | that's a very long shopping trip... |
| 13:16.14 | Leeds | morsing: how big are the files? |
| 13:16.28 | mikejw | lol |
| 13:17.23 | morsing | [root@testpc DVD_RTAV]# ls -l |
| 13:17.23 | morsing | total 2402824 |
| 13:17.23 | morsing | -r-xr-xr-x 1 4294967295 4294967295 83389 Jan 28 15:11 VR_MANGR.BUP* |
| 13:17.23 | morsing | -r--r--r-- 1 4294967295 4294967295 83389 Jan 28 15:11 VR_MANGR.IFO |
| 13:17.23 | morsing | -rwxrwxrwx 1 4294967295 4294967295 2460323840 Jan 28 13:27 VR_MOVIE.VRO* |
| 13:17.32 | morsing | Even though the disk is nowhere near full |
| 13:18.31 | Leeds | in which case I'd venture a guess that it's a normal DVD-video layout (IFO at the start, mpeg after that) but with a differently-shaped filesystem laid on top |
| 13:19.19 | Leeds | so the same dvd-ripping (but not re-encoding) programs I was talking about yesterday *should* be able to deal with it quite happily |
| 13:19.37 | Leeds | http://www.transcoding.org/cgi-bin/transcode?DvdRippers being the interesting page listing them |
| 13:20.22 | morsing | But how does it handle having multiple recordings in one file? |
| 13:21.11 | Leeds | that's the point - the filesystem doesn't matter on a DVD-video - it's just a convenience provided for non-dedicated DVD minipulating kit |
| 13:21.46 | Leeds | all a DVD player does is read the IFO from the start of the disk and assume there's mpeg data following it, indexed by the IFO - it doesn't read the filesystem at all |
| 13:21.56 | morsing | So I can just mkisofs the lot and then cdrecord? |
| 13:22.21 | Leeds | which is why the layout of the VOB files bears no relationship to the layout of the videp |
| 13:23.26 | Leeds | I'd try using one of the programs linked to to pull the stuff off the disk onto your hard drive into VOB files (hopefully) and then mkisofs (-ufs -dvd-video and other options) it before burning it - and I use growisofs to burn DVDs, not cdrecord |
| 13:23.48 | *** join/#gllug pawel (~pawel@client-82-13-45-203.brhm.adsl.virgin.net) |
| 13:23.59 | pawel | hi guys. |
| 13:24.04 | rdancer | hi, pawel |
| 13:24.14 | rdancer | (and others) |
| 13:24.21 | Leeds | afternoon lads |
| 13:24.25 | morsing | Hang on - the file here is VRO, not VOB. You just said there was no difference between the two systems |
| 13:24.59 | rdancer | Leeds: 8-) |
| 13:25.51 | Leeds | argh... let me try again |
| 13:26.03 | Leeds | a DVD is a block device, right? |
| 13:26.16 | rdancer | i know! i know! |
| 13:26.17 | morsing | Yes |
| 13:26.40 | morsing | Leeds: What happens if I put the VRO file on a DVD-R? |
| 13:27.01 | Leeds | there are two ways of looking at a block device - one is a sequence of unstructured blocks - the other is a random-access filesystem, where some of the metadata talls you where to look in the stream of blocks for certain data |
| 13:27.43 | Leeds | the point is, in both cases, you're reading the same data from the same sequential stream of blocks - you're just navigating them differently |
| 13:28.19 | rdancer | you can even have multiple metadata on the same block device, mounting them as different-looking filesystems |
| 13:28.33 | rdancer | that is what hybrid cds for mac/win/unix are |
| 13:28.39 | Leeds | so, a dedicated DVD player looks at the stream of blocks, which start with *the contents* of an IFO file, which then tells it the structure of the video DVD |
| 13:28.41 | rdancer | and multisession is something like that, too |
| 13:28.42 | Leeds | rdancer: please, don't |
| 13:29.20 | Leeds | morsing: effectively, an IFO file describes a different sort of filesystem - one which isn't built around files and directories, but around titles and chapters |
| 13:29.33 | Leeds | does that make sense |
| 13:29.58 | Leeds | ? |
| 13:30.52 | morsing | YEs |
| 13:31.09 | morsing | So why not just copy the VRO instead of ripping? |
| 13:31.46 | Leeds | mainly because you've got to make sure the stuff is laid out correctly on the disk, and I don't know if mkisofs can handle VRO files |
| 13:32.18 | Leeds | I would do it the safe way to start with :-) |
| 13:32.46 | Leeds | unless, say, you're short on disk space... |
| 13:46.16 | rdancer | it looks like there won't be a kernel security upgrade for woody *ever* |
| 13:46.43 | rdancer | they have silently dropped the support sometimes after april 2004 without even telling the users |
| 13:47.39 | rdancer | i think they deserve running their brains on woody, getting 0wned, and being enslaved until sarge is released, or forever, whichever takes longer. |
| 13:48.26 | rdancer | i never particularly liked the DST but this is just too much |
| 14:20.48 | *** join/#gllug SpudULike (~colin@82-35-32-164.cable.ubr01.camd.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 14:51.07 | morsing | milk |
| 15:14.40 | *** join/#gllug JAV (~JAV@105.Red-80-34-40.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 15:14.51 | JAV | good afternoon |
| 15:16.16 | morsing | af |
| 15:16.19 | morsing | afternoon |
| 15:22.18 | rhowe | morsing: Are you simply wanting to duplicate the disk? |
| 15:22.49 | rhowe | morsing: If so, a dd dump to a file followed by a cdrecord of that file might well do the job without you having to know anything about the format of the disk |
| 15:23.30 | rhowe | Anyway, I need to do some shopping |
| 15:29.37 | morsing | rhowe: Yes. I'll give it a try |
| 16:20.00 | rdancer | update: debian security updates to 2.4.18 ``have been postponed a bit'' and they will be available ``hope[fully] [...] in the coming weeks'' |
| 16:22.02 | rdancer | i think those two people who actually use that kernel package will appreciate it |
| 16:22.37 | rdancer | s/2.4.18/kernel package in woody/ |
| 16:40.23 | *** join/#gllug Catalyst (~angelic@exten-halls-245.soton.ac.uk) |
| 17:01.53 | Leeds | that's Interesting Times done... |
| 17:02.28 | George | FOOD |
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| 17:32.19 | *** join/#gllug AndrewBlack_ (~chatzilla@81.2.66.249) |
| 17:48.52 | morsing | milk |
| 18:22.23 | highbury | a nasty grinding/whining sound just started coming from my disk drive |
| 18:22.49 | Leeds | pray |
| 18:23.09 | Leeds | pray now and pray hard and backup |
| 18:23.49 | rdancer | highbury: smartmontools - control and monitor storage systems using S.M.A.R.T. |
| 18:24.49 | rdancer | contrary to the popular belief, strange-sounding disks don't have to fail rapidly (although they might, and you better not count on that) |
| 18:26.45 | rdancer | i've decided to become blackhat |
| 18:27.05 | Leeds | because the style suites you? |
| 18:27.13 | rdancer | Leeds: 8-) |
| 18:27.41 | Leeds | because you've already got the Hollywood-approved evil-sounding eastern European accent? :-) |
| 18:27.58 | rdancer | figuratively speaking; i always liked to wear hat or kippa |
| 18:28.30 | rdancer | Leeds: yu sure ai khav! |
| 18:28.35 | Leeds | I like wearing a hat - at least at this time of year - and the hat I have is black... |
| 18:29.33 | rdancer | it's because there is absolutely no security what so ever, just snake oil, drones, idiots dubbed experts, and more snake oil for a topping |
| 18:30.29 | rdancer | the woody kernel was the last drop |
| 18:31.19 | rdancer | Leeds: do i actually have that much of an accent? |
| 18:31.25 | Leeds | yes |
| 18:31.38 | Leeds | not one that makes you hard to understand, but it's very noticable |
| 18:31.43 | rdancer | hm |
| 18:31.53 | rdancer | eastern, really? |
| 18:32.06 | Leeds | well it sure ain't western :-) |
| 18:32.11 | rdancer | heh |
| 18:33.17 | rdancer | strange -- people usually can't tell i'm slavic |
| 18:34.04 | rdancer | *slavonic |
| 18:34.24 | Leeds | is slavonic really the word? |
| 18:34.34 | rdancer | yes |
| 18:34.49 | rdancer | i just looked it up in a dictionary: slavonic more or less == slavic |
| 18:35.47 | rdancer | i just don't get the woody kernel |
| 18:37.00 | rdancer | (1) new users will never install it, and will end up with the default install kernell, which is a never updated kernel that just sits there, and will never be updated no matter what |
| 18:37.24 | Leeds | heh, from the mod_python manual: "At this point, if you didn't understand the above paragraph, go back and read it again, until you do." |
| 18:37.51 | rdancer | heh |
| 18:38.30 | rdancer | (2) users who rtfm a *lot* and are lucky, will realize there are kernel-image-2.4.18-<arch> and kernel-image-2.4.18-1-<arch>. The latter allegedly is the one to use, though nobody could tell me why. This kernel was last updated before the secholes storm, in April 2004. |
| 18:39.17 | Leeds | well, there've been no security issues with 2.4 since then, have there? I mean, it must be perfectly secure... |
| 18:39.48 | rdancer | (3) users who actually follow lkml might know that the linux point releases are not released every time a sechole is found -- linus says that's a distro job. debian apparently doesn't think so |
| 18:41.44 | rdancer | (4) there are dozen kernel packages in Sarge, Sid, backports.org, as well as debian-hardened, grsec, and whole the mess we call WWW. I have no idea whether at least the known issues are patched for in any of these, although i understand every single one of them will brag about being the single best thing since sliced bread |
| 18:42.04 | rdancer | (5) <unknown> |
| 18:42.08 | rdancer | (6) profit |
| 18:42.13 | Leeds | heh |
| 18:42.31 | rdancer | i think (5) is to become blackhat |
| 18:42.44 | rdancer | now am i crazy or are *they* crazy? |
| 18:43.05 | Leeds | they're crazy... no-one runs stable, right? |
| 18:43.20 | rdancer | how the fuck can they call it a `distro'? `security'? `debian *security* team'? |
| 18:44.01 | rdancer | Leeds: i think most ppl are (1), then (4), few (2) |
| 18:44.40 | rdancer | Leeds: i'd bet no debian *developer* runs stable |
| 18:45.01 | Leeds | and they're the only people who matter - they're building the system for themselves, after all, not for others |
| 18:45.07 | rdancer | hm |
| 18:45.14 | rdancer | sounds reasonable |
| 18:45.30 | Leeds | which, of course, is the downside of the non-commercial thing |
| 18:46.14 | rdancer | i wish they had balls and said that openly |
| 18:46.25 | Leeds | do you think I'm wrong to say that? |
| 18:46.41 | rdancer | i think your explanation fits the facts i know |
| 18:47.06 | rdancer | it's not necessarily a bad thing to have a bit fuzzy distro |
| 18:47.40 | rdancer | but the downside is, noone actually knows it all that well |
| 18:48.16 | rdancer | debian is quite open, so once you know what you want, it's a snap to integrate it into the system |
| 18:48.49 | rdancer | which is probably precisely what had happened to the kernel package, after 5 years since woody's been frozen |
| 18:49.19 | rdancer | it was easier for the ppl to roll their own kernel than to write an email to debian-security |
| 18:49.41 | Leeds | feel free to talk to SlayerXP about this during the week - I'm sure he'll happily answer your issues, being a Debian fanboy |
| 18:49.49 | rdancer | heh |
| 18:50.04 | rdancer | wasn't he one of the debian guys at the gllug? |
| 18:50.07 | rdancer | *meeting |
| 18:50.30 | Leeds | nope |
| 18:50.49 | rdancer | indeed, who was that guy who didn't know what kernel was? |
| 18:51.32 | Leeds | Chris, I think, but I'm not sure - I'm better with faces than names, and I never really picked his up |
| 18:51.32 | rdancer | he had such a religious gleam in his eyes, he was frightening... |
| 18:52.29 | rdancer | ...and those red-on-black swirls were frightening, too |
| 18:52.35 | Leeds | heh |
| 18:52.54 | pawel | hi guys. |
| 18:53.31 | Leeds | evening |
| 18:54.15 | rdancer | cesc |
| 18:54.59 | rdancer | *ceszc |
| 18:55.00 | pawel | how was the pub? |
| 18:55.14 | Leeds | quiet |
| 18:55.43 | rdancer | we've been harassed few a 17yo girls, gprs didn't work, i spend all my money in some indian restaurant |
| 18:55.58 | Leeds | gprs did work! |
| 18:56.06 | rdancer | ...after ~15 minutes |
| 18:57.36 | Leeds | and I think the girls were at least 18 :-) |
| 19:52.00 | rdancer | if not eastern-europe accent, eastern-europe syntax for sure |
| 19:52.17 | rdancer | *european |
| 19:52.48 | rdancer | ich bit from russia and ich bin proud about this |
| 19:53.04 | Leeds | chill, dude |
| 19:53.41 | rdancer | i will consider this option, thanks |
| 19:54.44 | Leeds | glad to help |
| 20:04.24 | morsing | Leeds, rdancer: It was Chris Bell and he does know what a kernel is. He was just a bit confused. |
| 20:13.37 | rdancer | morsing: yeah; it's always a bit strange to actually *talk* about the things you're used to *code* or at best *write* about |
| 20:14.54 | *** join/#gllug IRCMonkey_ (~chatzilla@82-44-106-148.dial.cvx01.croy.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:16.39 | rdancer | still he looked a bit sectish |
| 20:26.45 | *** join/#gllug mz2 (~mz@81-1-73-144.homechoice.co.uk) |
| 20:39.28 | Leeds | evening mz2 |
| 20:41.21 | mz2 | good evening |
| 20:45.18 | rhowe | hm, 22" dell CRT for 150 quid - http://www.aria.co.uk/productinfocomm.asp?ID=16829&SpecialStatus=1 |
| 20:45.28 | George | 200gb drive just failed on me. |
| 20:45.36 | Leeds | George: oops |
| 20:45.49 | rhowe | George: Serves you right for installing KDE :) |
| 20:46.10 | George | rhowe: fuck off and die. |
| 20:46.32 | rhowe | George: Later |
| 20:46.48 | Leeds | rhowe: you've got stuff to do before fucking off and dying? :-) |
| 20:47.08 | rhowe | Leeds: One or two things, yes :) |
| 20:48.03 | rhowe | George: Something for you to restore that backup onto - http://www.aria.co.uk/ProductInfoComm.asp?ID=16708 |
| 20:48.11 | George | that brings me down to 520GB |
| 20:48.17 | rhowe | 250G SATA drive for 82 quid inc. VAT |
| 20:48.23 | morsing | Look at these pictures from Switzerland last week: |
| 20:48.24 | morsing | http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/index.htm?id=913400 |
| 20:48.35 | rhowe | ATA133 version at the same price, too |
| 20:48.37 | morsing | Amazing |
| 20:48.53 | Leeds | rhowe: did that just appear? |
| 20:49.13 | rhowe | Leeds: It's in their bargain basement, so it's probably refurb or EOL |
| 20:49.33 | Leeds | ah, okay |
| 20:50.10 | Leeds | how could a 250G SATA drive be EOLed? good grief :-) |
| 20:50.33 | rhowe | hm, 36.7GB Maxtor Atlas 10 III for 70 quid inc. VAT |
| 20:50.39 | rhowe | Not bad for SCSI. Only one left though |
| 20:50.55 | Leeds | anyway, I bought a new 250G Maxtor drive at the fair a couple of weeks ago for ?97 (plus cc surcharge) |
| 20:52.16 | rhowe | hm, not bad - aria does them for between 101 and 114 inc. VAT, but they'll add a tenner delivery on top of that I guess |
| 20:53.22 | Leeds | right |
| 20:54.01 | Leeds | add ?2.50 (or so, can't remember exactly) for entrance to the fair, and I suppose tube/bus/etc. fare if need be :-) |
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