irclog2html for #gllug on 20050220

02:24.12*** join/#gllug gregj (~gj@62.121.136.6)
04:01.19*** join/#gllug eye69 (magnus@ipv6.upcore.net)
04:14.41*** join/#gllug JAV (~JAV@105.Red-80-34-40.pooles.rima-tde.net)
07:48.42*** join/#gllug eye69 (magnus@ipv6.upcore.net)
08:33.51*** join/#gllug morsing (~morsing@80.46.110.1)
09:12.31morsingmorning?
10:02.58highburymorning
10:34.18Leedsmorning folks
10:51.06morsingLeeds! How's the boyfriend-phonecalls coming?
11:18.41*** join/#gllug MiniLeeds (~richardc@host-212-158-207-148.bulldogdsl.com)
11:19.24rhowemornin'
11:22.46MiniLeedsrhowe: you were meant to be there to stop me buying too much!
11:23.12rhowelol
11:23.32rhoweWhat did you get?
11:24.29MiniLeedspower cable...
11:24.32MiniLeedskeyboard...
11:24.40MiniLeedswireless/optical/rechargable mouse
11:24.42MiniLeedswifi
11:24.45MiniLeedsbluetooth
11:24.47MiniLeedshub
11:24.53MiniLeedsall USB except the power cable..
11:25.12rhowefun
11:25.16MiniLeedsindeed
11:25.24highburyMiniLeeds: you got a MacMini then?
11:25.48MiniLeedsand all work on the Mac, which is useful - particularly the wifi - I had to hunt around for a supported 802.11g dongle
11:25.51MiniLeedshighbury: yup
11:26.01highburybought in uk or us?
11:26.15MiniLeedsin the US
11:26.30highburyhow much cheaper? how much did you spec it up by?
11:26.42MiniLeedsI called the Apple store in Boston on Wednesday morning and they had a few in, so I went and bought it retail
11:27.15MiniLeedsit's the basic spec - 1.25GHz processor, 40GB drive, CDRW/DVD (not DVD+-RW), no wifi or bluetooth onboard
11:28.01MiniLeedsthe only choice I had was slow proc and small drive for (just under) $499 or faster proc (1.4GHz) and bigger drive (80GB) for (just under) $599
11:28.24MiniLeedsI didn't have time to order it with specific options - hence having bought USB bluetooth and wifi
11:28.36highburyk. cool
11:29.03highburyhow does the speed compare with your pwoerbook? given 2.5" drives etc
11:29.10MiniLeedsretail price is $499 - you buy it retail you pay 5% tax, but I get a 6% discount for the next 2 days as a Sun employee
11:29.37MiniLeedsit's a very similar spec to my powerbook - except for the RAM, which I will probably end up upgrading - pb has 512MB, mini has 256MB
11:30.15MiniLeedsright now I'm not quite sure what I want it for - it was an impulse buy - so I've got it hooked up to a crappy monitor which doesn't really deserve it
11:31.31MiniLeedsI could have got you one... but I was paranoid enough about customs as it was :-)
11:32.18MiniLeedsit cost me about £70 less than UK retail in the end... and I didn't have to wait the 2-3 weeks estimated shipping
11:41.36highburyI could lease one off you
11:43.16rhowehmmm http://www.siksai.co.uk/~rhowe/exim-8bitmime-fu.txt
11:48.53MiniLeedshighbury: what would you actually need, and when?
11:54.35*** join/#gllug mz2 (~mz@81.1.81.59)
11:54.59MiniLeedsmorning mz2
11:55.09mz2morning
12:14.06*** join/#gllug mikejw (1001@81-179-200-119.dsl.pipex.com)
13:07.35*** join/#gllug rdancer (~r--t@rdancer.user)
13:07.44rdanceranybody going to TC fairs?
13:07.54Leedsum... yesterday
13:08.13rdancerfair 'nough
13:08.21rdancerno money yesterday 8-)
13:08.29LeedsI don't think they run on Sundays, do they?
13:08.35rdancer(-8 some money today
13:08.37rdancerthey do
13:08.56Leedsyou're sure?
13:08.57rdancersat and sun, 10am-4pm, approx
13:09.06rdancerpretty sure
13:10.39LeedsI'm reasonably sure they don't
13:10.45Leedsthis is TCR you're talking about?
13:10.49rdancerif they're not, i'm going to spend the money on clothes
13:10.58rdanceryes, Tottenham Court Rd.
13:11.37Leedswell, the bcf ones (at the top of the street) seem to be saturday only
13:11.50rdancerhmm
13:11.55rdancerthere are 2 fairs, right?
13:12.03Leedsthere is ruislip and croydon today
13:12.10rdanceroh
13:12.18Leedsyes, there's also a fair at the bottom of the street, but I don't know who runs that one
13:12.36rdanceryou lost me somewhere after ``there is''
13:12.49Leedsthey are suburbs
13:13.42rdancerRuislip HA4 0JE
13:13.59Leedsyes
13:15.17rdancercentral line
13:15.22rdancersouth ruislip
13:16.19rdancerseems like i'll do something else.... like .... i might catch upon sleeping i think
13:16.28morsingWhich is better: pulling the phone cable upstairs to the modem and computer or the network cable and modem downstairs, closer to the phone socket? I suspect the second.
13:17.03LeedsI would say the first - less cabling - but are you asking in terms of signal quality?
13:17.06rdancermorsing: what network cable?
13:18.00morsing5e
13:18.13morsingLeeds: Quality yes
13:18.25rdancerfew tens of meters of 5e never hurt
13:18.32Leedsmorsing: then probably the latter
13:18.33rdancerif it's ethernet, that is
13:18.54morsingGood
13:19.10Leedsargh!
13:19.23rdancerdsl otoh has quite a big problems with cable lengths
13:19.42Leedswhy can I never remember the URL of that bloody government-run travel site with maps, route planning and so on
13:19.56rdancer10m is a *lot* with cable tv
13:20.10Leedsit's something like travelguide.info but not
13:20.13rdancer~ibot google government-run travel site with maps, route planning and so on
13:20.46Leedsrdancer: not helpful - you really think I'm so stupid not to have tried that?
13:20.59rdancerLeeds: 8-)
13:21.24rdancerthe results are obviously bogus... seems like google doesn't like shouting ;-)
13:21.47rdanceribot: google site:.gov.uk bloody government-run travel site with maps, route planning and so on
13:22.26rdancer.uk sites are in general very badly googlable
13:22.32rdancerafaict
13:22.42Leedsit's not a .uk
13:22.49rdancerah'
13:23.54Leedswe've discussed it here before - it's a great site, but I've got a mental block on the URL
13:24.29Leedsand it's new and badly-advertised enough that no-one seems to link to it
13:27.17Leedsfound it!
13:27.25Leedsamazingly, from www.gov.uk!
13:27.49Leedsand now we get back to the problem that for some reason, my laptop can't see it
13:28.14rhowetransportdirect.info?
13:28.14Leedscan anyone see transportdirect.info?
13:28.18rhowe:P
13:28.32Leedsrhowe: piss off
13:28.38rhoweYes, I can
13:28.58Leedswell why can't I?
13:29.16rhowe*shrug* :)
13:31.51rhowewww.transportdirect.infoA157.203.42.250
13:32.07Leedsyes, yes... my dns is b0rken
13:32.33rhoweooh, it's not a virtual host - you can use the IP address
13:38.24Leedshmm... it's going to be cold in brussels at t'end of t'week
13:38.46Leedsforcast on bbc for thursday is freezing, with snow
13:38.59rhoweyay
13:39.22Leeds:-)
13:39.26rhoweI bought a hat and gloves a couple of months ago and have hardly had a chance to use them
13:39.27Leedssnow is cool
13:40.11rhoweand sometimes even cold
13:41.45Leedssome friends of mine went to Eilat yesterday - southern tip of Israel...
13:42.01Leedsthe high forcasted there for this week is 30 degrees :-)
13:42.06rhoweEilat as opposed to Islet
13:42.20rhoweheh
13:42.32Leedsalthough apparently it's drizzling right now
13:42.52rhowewarm drizzle though, one would assume
13:43.04Leedsyes
13:43.45Leedsthen again: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4281261.stm
13:45.23rhowewhee, more snow
13:46.12Leedsmy parents' immediate response to "I'm being laid off, they won't let me in the office after Tuesday" was "oh, great - you can come up to Leeds and visit us!"
13:47.01Leedswell, alright, maybe not immediate immediate...
13:53.27rhoweheh
14:11.08morsingWarning: Don't buy rolls of ethernet cable at Maplins!
14:21.08*** join/#gllug rdancer (~r--t@rdancer.user)
14:23.59rhowes/rolls of ethernet cable/*/
14:24.04rhoweahaha - Feb 20 Floyd Cervantes (   0) SPAM-HIGH Perform like a sexual Dynamo!
14:24.07rhoweHow do you power *your* home?
14:42.29*** join/#gllug BobtheAvenger (Bob@host213-122-12-190.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
14:42.40BobtheAvengerhey
14:52.35*** join/#gllug rdancer (~r--t@rdancer.user)
15:16.41BobtheAvengerhey
16:25.12BobtheAvengerhey
16:26.01evangineerhey back
16:26.12BobtheAvengerhow are you?
16:26.39evangineerfine
16:26.53rhowes/y$//
16:27.36BobtheAvengerhey rhowe
16:27.44rhoweheya
16:28.06BobtheAvengerhow are you?
16:29.55rhoweJust working through the backlog of stuff to do
16:30.27BobtheAvengerok
16:32.17rhoweheh, exim's delivering 12 messages per second
16:32.29BobtheAvengerthat good?
16:32.38rhoweWell, it has about 1000 to delivery
16:32.40rhowes/y$//
16:32.48rhowedamnit, why do I always add a y?
16:33.14BobtheAvengerso its looking to take just under 3hrs?
16:33.29BobtheAvengerhttp://www.bbspot.com/News/2005/01/bush_countdown.html
16:34.03rhoweDamn wireless mice - all too easy to lose
16:34.10BobtheAvengeryer
16:34.16BobtheAvengeri use optical now
16:34.22rhoweSame here
16:34.54BobtheAvengerit got annoying trying to find it and getting new batteries
16:36.55rhowe# egrep -c '^2005-02-20 16:.*Completed' /var/log/exim4/mainlog
16:36.55rhowe3517
16:36.58rhoweDone :)
16:37.21BobtheAvengerok
16:39.43rhoweINBOX [Msgs:2191 New:2188]
16:39.49rhowehmmm
16:40.43BobtheAvengerthats alot of messages
16:41.06rhoweThat's only the inbox stuff :)
16:41.14rhoweprocmail will have filtered a lot off elsewhere
16:41.26BobtheAvengerok
16:42.17rhowe437 new linux-xfs emails to peruse
16:42.49BobtheAvengerheh
16:43.18BobtheAvengerrather you than me doing this work
16:43.28rhoweNah, I think I've read most of them
16:43.34rhoweJust that the state wasn't preserved
16:43.39BobtheAvengerok
16:44.27BobtheAvengermy shoulder muscles ache after yesterday
16:46.13BobtheAvengeranyway
16:46.14BobtheAvengerpeace
18:12.21*** join/#gllug BobtheAvenger (Bob@host213-122-150-82.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
18:12.32BobtheAvengerhey
18:31.25Leedshi
18:32.34BobtheAvengerhow are you?
18:32.45Leedsnot bad
18:32.53Leedsdreading having to do anything serious ever again
18:33.24LeedsI just really can't be bothered with anythin
18:34.35Leedsand comptemplating a rude reply to the mail which says "Thank you to the entire Solaris team" saying "apart from those of us who've had our projects and then jobs stolen out from underneath us, you mean?"
18:35.29BobtheAvengeri fink u should, unless you want a referance
18:35.37Leedsyeah...
18:36.03Leedsalternatively, I could just put it in the "can't be bothered" column along with most of the rest of my life
18:36.20BobtheAvengeryour choice
18:37.37BobtheAvengerC doesnt have bool data type yer?
18:38.24LeedsI suspect the answer is that we're already gone enough that they don't care what we think - particularly to Americans who are used to laid-off meaning "escorted from the premisies that day" and who therefore assume people aren't around and reading mail afterwards
18:38.31Leedsnope, no explicit bool
18:38.37BobtheAvengerok good good
18:39.10BobtheAvengersomeones writen a load of code which i think is in C but uses bool like every few lines
18:39.31Leedswell, you can typedef it easily enough
18:39.44BobtheAvengeryer, i wrote an enum for it
18:42.52BobtheAvengerwhats on friday apart form the weekend?
18:43.15Leedsgetting out of the country again
18:43.44BobtheAvengerwhere you going?
18:43.44Leedsfosdem
18:44.03Leedsibot fosdem
18:44.04ibotextra, extra, read all about it, fosdem is the Free and Open source Software Developers' European Meeting, a 2 day event, organized by volunteers, to promote the widespread use of Free and Open Source software. http://www.fosdem.org, or on the 21st and 22nd of February in 2004
18:44.38BobtheAvengerhope you have fun
18:45.08Leedsthanks... most of the regulars here are going :-)
18:45.22Leedsibot no, fosdem is the Free and Open source Software Developers' European Meeting, a 2 day event, organized by volunteers, to promote the widespread use of Free and Open Source software. http://www.fosdem.org
18:45.23ibotLeeds: okay
18:45.37Leedsibot fosdem is also on 26th and 27th February in 2005
18:45.38ibotLeeds: okay
18:46.13Leedsoh, plus, hopefully, Friday is my penultimate full payday
18:46.27BobtheAvengerthat good?
18:50.25Leedswell, payday is a good thing
18:50.39BobtheAvengerbut penultimate is bad
18:58.15Leedstrue
19:28.36BobtheAvengerpeqace
19:46.34Leedsping, anyone around?
19:53.51JAVyes
19:54.47Leedsquick question... what does setuid or setgid on a directory mean?
20:07.06gregjhttp://wiki.7thguard.net/lmj/Notatki/tlumaczenie-skandynawia
20:07.20gregjcan someone please proof-read English part there ?
20:08.29Leedsfirst thing: you acl is broken :-)
20:11.40Leedsthere are lots of things...
20:12.06*** join/#gllug mz2 (~mz@81.1.81.59)
20:12.31gregjLeeds: it's wiki, feel free to edit it if you can/want
20:13.45JAVLeeds: permissions?
20:13.54LeedsJAV: yes
20:14.21mz2tomboy just made my day
20:14.48JAVdefault group for new files and directories under it, i guess
20:15.33Leedsgregj: and why should I help Poles like that?  they're only in the EU to get development funds and steal jobs
20:16.31LeedsJAV: for or against? :-)
20:17.21JAVI downloaded the pdf... after the first page i decided firmly YES
20:17.26gregjLeeds: :>
20:17.32JAV(so booooring)
20:17.36JAVO:
20:17.41JAVO:)
20:17.52Leedsah, a new plan... bore voters into submission :-)
20:17.58JAVright
20:18.04gregjLeeds: we also have charming girls, and loads of juish ppl
20:19.18Leedsgregj: seriously, and it's nothing personal, but in my mind, Poland really shouldn't be talking about having lots of Jews...
20:19.18JAVthere were tv ads with famous people (excellent argument) asking for 'yes'
20:19.41LeedsJAV: there's a good chance of the NOs winning here
20:20.14JAVbut no real information about the document
20:21.12Leedsbecause the doument is far too long and complicated for non-diplomats to read, never mind understand
20:21.32gregjLeeds: why ?
20:21.55Leedsgregj: becuase Poles weren't exactly helpful to Jews during the war
20:22.07gregjLeeds: you mean because of so called "polish holocaust" ? which is called Polish only bcause that was on Polish teritory
20:22.14gregjLeeds: there were some helpfull and some not
20:22.18gregjlike everywhere
20:22.26Leedsthere were a lot less helpful than not
20:22.31gregjconcentration camps where german, not polish
20:22.37gregjhow do you know ?
20:22.51Leedsfrom what I've read and heard
20:22.56gregjI know Jews would like everyone to be helpfull, but I don't think that will ever happend
20:23.20LeedsI'm not saying that
20:23.24gregjand I know some old ppl who risked their lives helping jews, would you like to tell them that you don't like Poles becouse of that ?
20:23.36gregjthat's not quite right to jude ppl that way
20:23.36LeedsI never said I didn't like Poles
20:23.43JAVI think that if it's so important they should have done a 'sesame street'-like tv program with several chapters on public tv explaining it in plain language
20:23.56LeedsJAV: you're probably right
20:23.57gregjand how do you think Churchil helped poles ?
20:24.11Leedsgregj: what does churchill have to do with anything?
20:24.38gregjI shouldn't like Brits because they were not helping poles during WW2, and they are talking about our discoveries during that war as "their probably greatest thing"
20:24.42gregjor something like that
20:24.53gregjthere was treaty signed before WW2
20:25.00LeedsI never said I didn't like poles
20:25.10LeedsI said Poland should not be proud of having many Jews
20:25.23gregjand Churchil never helped poland when it was invaded by Germans
20:26.00Leedsit was, of course, nothing to do with churchill, since he was elected long after the invasion
20:26.06gregjwell, we in Cracow are quite proud of Jewish quarter,or whatever you will call it
20:26.08Leedsbut I don't care about churchill
20:26.23gregjI think it was his decision not to help us
20:27.30gregjbrits knew back in 1941 that there are concentration camps on polish teritory, but they were not doing anything about it because they didn't belive
20:27.30Leedshe only became pm in 1940
20:27.42gregjwhat he was doing before than ?
20:27.52Leedshe ran the british navy
20:28.15Leedsbut he is irrelevent
20:28.21gregjwell, he than let Stalin and russia to ocupy poland till 1989
20:28.34gregjwhatever, we will find something on him ;)
20:28.57Leedsare you honestly saying that you think poland should be proud of what happened to her Jewish population during the war?
20:29.04gregjanyway, back to the square one, if you can, please check that doc. It's for some EU conference
20:29.16gregjLeeds: we are not proud of it
20:29.25Leedsand that's all I said
20:29.35gregjLeeds: as we are not proud about what Germans did to US overall
20:29.52gregjby us I mean poles, not so called UnitedStates
20:30.41gregjs/about/of/
20:30.49Leedsother countries were far less complicit in what was done to their Jews
20:32.08gregjwell, number of Jews in Poland was much bigger than in other countries
20:32.29gregjfor instance my home town, Cracows population was nearly 50% Jews
20:33.07gregjthat's why so many of them escaped from Poland after 33 or so, and just before the war
20:35.14LeedsI'm not saying it was welcomed, but other countries fought a lot harder to protect their population
20:35.45gregjdon't think so myself
20:36.00gregjit was hitler, and his raich that was fighting Jews, not poles
20:37.27Leedsin every country, they used locals to help
20:37.57gregjyep
20:38.30gregjeven in my familly I know some helped others during ww2, dunno if they were Jews thou
20:38.49gregjI know my grand grand father was shot, and some others from my familiy too
20:39.21gregjbut I don't know about anyone helping Germans
20:39.27Leedshttp://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%20692.pdf
20:45.49gregjit doesn't load here
20:45.52gregjstops on 8%
20:45.57gregjprobably windows server ;)
20:46.43Leedshttp://www1.yadvashem.org/Odot/prog/index_before_change_table.asp?GATE=Z&list_type=2-52&type_id=4&total=N
20:47.00Leedsit's the document about the church
20:47.02gregjchanging viewer helped
20:47.59gregjbut that's totaly untrue
20:48.17gregjI knew that some thought Jews were threat, but these were minority
20:48.32gregjbut as usual, minority speaks loudest about their problems
20:48.33gregj..
20:49.37gregjbesides, I am not catholic my self anyway
20:50.37Leedshttp://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%203128.pdf
20:50.44Leedsand many other documents on that site
20:51.35Copeevening
20:51.59Leedsevening
20:52.32Copewe just got back from seeing my sister off to usa
20:52.50Leedsshe escaped?
20:53.15*** join/#gllug stephanb (~stef@dsl-80-44-197-187.access.as9105.com)
20:54.10highburyLeeds: re: leasing a mac, week commencing 7-Mar probably for 2 weeks, needs to have latest non-beta version os MacOS X
20:54.57Leedshighbury: thing is... as it happens... I'm going to be away for 2 weeks, starting 5th March... :-)  and I happen to have a spare, new Mac here with the latest non-beta OS X :-)
20:56.32Leedshighbury: this may be a silly question... but I assume it wouldn't be *you* personally leasing it?  Someone else would be paying?
20:57.08Leedsbecause I wouldn't take your money - if you needed it, you'd be welcome to borrow it... but if it's not your money... :-)
20:59.07rhoweKung Fu Hustle (2004)(Dansk Tekst-Svcd).mpg finishing in 10:03:55 (14.5%)
20:59.11rhowewhee :)
21:08.34evangineerhey Cope
21:10.44*** join/#gllug BobtheAvenger (Bob@dial81-131-132-44.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
21:10.54BobtheAvengerhey
21:14.04Copehello there evangineer
21:14.41LeedsBobtheAvenger: so, how is you linux experiment progressing?
21:14.41BobtheAvengerhey Cope
21:15.06BobtheAvengererm not so great
21:16.01BobtheAvengerbrb heater burning
21:16.35BobtheAvengerback
21:16.47BobtheAvengeri installed it but theres so much crap on the hd it wont install
21:18.08*** join/#gllug rdancer (~r--t@host81-134-154-141.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
21:18.14BobtheAvengerhey
21:18.20rdanceribot: change 65 USD to GBP
21:18.32rdanceribot: change 65 USD to CZK
21:19.21rdancerheh -- 200mW prism 2.5 for 1.5k CZK -- that's ridiculous 8-)
21:21.19BobtheAvengerdman this heater
21:22.43BobtheAvenger*damn
21:25.03BobtheAvengerits started sparking
21:25.17Leedsthen turn it off now, carefully
21:25.22Copeexciting
21:25.41BobtheAvengeri turned it off and now it wont work
21:25.50Leedsthat's good
21:26.03BobtheAvengeror not good
21:26.11Leedsnope, it's good
21:26.21Leedswhen mains things start sparking, you unplug them and throw them away
21:26.33BobtheAvengerno jus the heater
21:27.00Leedsyou do not keep trying to use if, if you want to stay alive
21:27.29BobtheAvengeri'm not gonnatry commenting
21:27.50rdancerBobtheAvenger: do as Leeds said
21:28.20BobtheAvengeri will
21:28.38Leedsgood :-)
21:29.26BobtheAvengerit'll be fine
21:29.47rdanceri want a pc card from a vendor that actively supports free sw
21:29.56Leedsplease tell me you mean "I'd rather be cold tha dead"
21:30.08rdancerthis fucking ndiswrapper thingy toght me a lesson i think
21:30.11BobtheAvenger?
21:30.13rdancer*tought
21:30.47Leedstaught
21:30.53rdancerLeeds: that's false dichotomy: with tonight's weather, cold => dead ;-)
21:31.00*** join/#gllug yrmate (~yrmate@195.54.250.41)
21:31.08rdanceryes, did teach
21:31.08Leedsrdancer: ?
21:31.13Leedsevening yrmate
21:31.19BobtheAvengerhey
21:31.27rdancerho
21:31.57rdancerLeeds: with the ndiswrapper running, the system goes oom ~ once a day
21:32.05Leedsrdancer: ugh ugh ugh
21:32.23yrmatehiya Leeds
21:32.54rdancerplus if you try to rmmod ndiswrapper without ifconfig wlan0 down, any subsequent ifconfig invocation will simply block
21:33.29Leedsrdancer: I do't know why you'd try to use it in the first place
21:33.58rdanceri had to start telling my friend: no, you can't browse www, 'cause last 3 times you used firefox, i had to reboot. i know it's not your fault, but...
21:34.03Leedsyrmate: are you after anything in particular, or just wanting to hang out and chat :-)
21:34.23rdancerLeeds: i just went to TC, and decided to buy something *NOW*
21:34.37Leedsrdancer: well, that was dumb :-P
21:34.41rdancerLeeds: it connect another friend's laptop, so i can't unplug it
21:35.31rdancermight have been dumb, but it was *cheap*
21:35.48Leedsthere are also things which are cheap and work
21:35.59rdancernot at TCR, apparently
21:36.30Leedsthis is wireless, I assume?
21:36.36rdancerin fact i bought the worst thingy i could: TI 111
21:37.09rdancerit goes like 100 is ok, 110 is workable, 111 is bleeding edge, and won't even iwconfig with the native linux driver
21:37.28rdanceryes, 802.11g
21:37.36yrmatewell, can you recommend me a cheapo wireless pcmcia card that is currently available at shops in london. linux supported that is
21:37.55rdanceryrmate: i can give you this one ;-p
21:37.58Leedsyrmate: talk to rdancer - that's what he's complaining about right now :-)
21:38.13yrmatemy oh my!
21:38.17rdanceryrmate: stay away from cisco aironet, and anything TI-based
21:38.30rdancerin fact, anything by cisco
21:38.31Leedssurely prism is still the best bet?
21:38.36rdancerLeeds: seems so
21:38.45rdancerdlink, edimax, ... shit oh shit
21:39.01yrmatebut can  you be more specific. i mean mention brand name and model polz
21:39.01rdanceropenbsd.org pointed me out to netgate.com
21:39.12rdancerdunno
21:39.22rdancerthat's what i'm asking
21:39.29Leedsyrmate: sorry, dunno precise models - check the prism54 site
21:39.58Leedsyrmate: that's assuming you want 802.11g, since 802.11b sucks
21:40.00rdanceryrmate: prism54 is rather new thing still, afaik
21:40.15rdanceryrmate: you need 802.11g?
21:40.37yrmateLeeds, i do not know
21:40.47Leedshttp://prism54.org/supported_cards.php :-(
21:40.53Leedsyrmate: do you know the difference?
21:41.00yrmatespeed
21:41.05Leedsrdancer: it seems things have got a lot worse since I last looked
21:41.18Leedsyrmate: right, speed - 802.11b is very slow...
21:41.37yrmateslow for what?
21:41.45Leedswell, anything 'streaming'
21:41.53yrmatevideo?
21:41.59Copenose?
21:42.26Leedsit's fine for anything going across a private internet link, because that's very slow (in network terms), but local things are just horrible at that speed
21:42.30rdancer802.11b is 5Mbps effective bandwidth (i.e. what you get from ftp server)
21:42.30LeedsCope: indeed
21:42.56yrmatewhat about warchalking in london?
21:42.58Leedsrdancer: that's the maximum optimal speed
21:43.05rdancerso video is ok there
21:43.08rdancerLeeds: true
21:43.19rdancerit's shared spectrum, of course
21:43.44rdancerin fact, you get something like 18MB accross all the channels
21:43.59rdanceryrmate: then you want prism54
21:44.00Leedsyrmate: unless you know you can't afford it, you want 802.11g is what I'm saying - in the same way that you'd have to be insane to plan to use anything slower than 100mbit ethernet nowadays
21:44.15Leedsrdancer: did you look at the prism54 site?
21:44.23rdancerLeeds: looking atm
21:45.01rdancerLeeds: ``not changing the FCC ID'' -- those kids are nuts
21:45.09Leedsyes :-(
21:45.30yrmateLeeds,  802.11b is ok for web browsing, updating my debian computer, is it not?
21:45.57yrmatei am not a video guy meself
21:46.11Leedsyrmate: as I said - if you're just going to communicate across a private (i.e. residential) internet link, it's okay - if you're going to do anything local, it's horrible
21:46.16rdanceryrmate: depends on what the access point is using
21:46.48rdanceryrmate: if your mate has 802.11g, they won't like your eating much more spectrum for a given unit of effective bandwidth
21:47.21Leedsyrmate: a USB 802.11g adapter which *should* work with Linux is under ?30 - I really can't see the point in saving a few quid for the sake of using years'-old technology which you'll be stuck with
21:47.36yrmatebut there are some open access point you can, erm,  access ;)
21:47.42LeedsI know because I bought one yesterday - I bought it because it's supported on Mac OS, but the vendor also has free drivers for Linux
21:47.51rdancerLeeds: which one?
21:48.01Leedsasus wl-167G
21:48.04rdancerhm
21:48.09rdancerLeeds: does it work?
21:48.10yrmateunder 30 quid? you mean pcmcia?
21:48.17rdanceryrmate: usb
21:48.17Leedsyrmate: I said USB
21:48.22yrmatesorry
21:48.31yrmatewhat about pcmcia?
21:48.35Leedsrdancer: it seems to, with the Mac, yes :-)  it's not 100% stable... but the free driver is under active development
21:48.54Leedsyrmate: I've not bought a pcmcia 802.11 card in years... so I can't give specific advice
21:49.02rdancerLeeds: exactly what i don't want, after 2 years with not-quite-stable wifi
21:49.40rdanceri think i'll go with the netgate thingy
21:49.47Leedsrdancer: I can't comment on the Linux drivers because I've not used them - the only problem on the mac is that if the machine goes to sleep, it doesn't always work when it comes back up
21:49.57rdancerthe usd exchange rate makes the decision quite easy 8-)
21:50.15rdancerLeeds: exactly what i don't want
21:50.18Leedsrdancer: http://www.bb-zone.com/misc/rt2500/
21:50.26Leedshow the fuck do you know?  are you planning to use it with a mac?
21:50.41rdancerLeeds: why not?
21:50.52Leedsrdancer: do you *have* a MacOS machine?
21:50.57rdancerLeeds: not *yet*
21:51.06Leedsare you asking about Linux?
21:51.13rdancernot in particular
21:51.21yrmateLeeds, my laptop has 2 usb ports (1.1) will the  Asus WL-167G perform ok?
21:51.25Leedsall current Macs have very stable native support from Apple - that is the easy answer
21:51.36*** part/#gllug stephanb (~stef@dsl-80-44-197-187.access.as9105.com)
21:51.40Leedsyrmate: I have no idea about your specific hardware setup, sorry
21:51.52yrmatewhat do you mean?
21:51.53rdancerbsd's foretaste is much sweater than linux ever was
21:52.09Leedsrdancer: frankly, if you're that worried, just use commercial software with commercial driver support
21:52.23rdancerLeeds: heh, a gooood one ;-)
21:52.32rdancermmm, pasting across heads does not work 8-(
21:52.42rdancers/linux ever was/debian ever was/
21:52.56Leedsyrmate: I can only tell you that it works on my mac, with one particular driver, except that it doesn't like it when the machine sleeps - I can't tell you it'll work with Linux, because I've not tried it, and I can't tell you it'll work on your laptop because I don't have it
21:53.16yrmateok
21:53.35Leedsrdancer: and you're saying bsd tastes more like a piece of clothing than debian
21:53.47Leedsyrmate: nothing personal - I've had a shitty week, month, year, etc....
21:54.16rdancerLeeds: it's a piece of cake.
21:54.28Leedsrdancer: so it's not a piece of clothing?
21:54.42Leedsrdancer: http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
21:54.43rdancerLeeds: i don't think i know what you mean by p.o.c.?
21:54.53Leedsa sweater
21:55.44yrmatehttp://www.planetmicro.co.uk/product_info.asp?stockcode=M004001 mentions that asus wl-167G is supported by redhat 7,1!
21:55.56Leedsyrmate: yes
21:56.24rdanceri had 2 machines, one netbsd and one openbsd up and running in less than 48 hours
21:57.16rdancerthe new sarge install took much longer in terms of configuration, and it simply didn't work on sparc. and i still don't have smtpd configured
21:57.44Leedsblah blah Debian sucks blah blah SPARC suck blah blah
21:57.47rdancerplus the lies about security support -- i'm really very bitter about this
21:57.54rdancersparc rocks
21:58.07rdancerdebian sucks
21:58.22Leedssparc sucks
21:58.25Leedssun sucks
21:58.25rdancer?
21:58.27Leedssolaris sucks
21:58.28rdancerah
21:58.29Leedsjava sucks
21:58.32rdanceryes
21:58.38rdanceri absolutely agree
21:58.43Leedsshwartz sucks donkey penises
21:59.37BobtheAvengerwell i'll let you calm down
21:59.38rdancerin a twist of masochism, i named one of the new machines `london'
21:59.43rdancerlondon sucks
21:59.55Leedsactually, solari doesn't suck - when they've finished s10, it'll be quite good... might take a few years... solaris engineering sucks
22:00.05Leedsoops, looks like I upset bob :-)
22:00.11rdanceroh
22:00.15rdancerbob sucks?
22:00.21yrmatelondon is not that bad but then again maybe because i am a londoner
22:00.34Leedsyrmate: you love London town?
22:01.10yrmater u from string a beads?
22:01.25Leedsum... possibly :-)
22:01.35rdancerand since tfl sucks hard and a trip from here to greenford which would take 30mins by bike takes 70 mins by bus, i have to go to bed Real Soon
22:03.13Leedsrdancer: get a bike...
22:03.23rdancerLeeds: wrt rt2x00, i simply like things that *work*, not interesting projects trying to make something useful out of a source tree that doesn't really work except under a special constellation of stars, while standing on your left foot, murmuring specialized incantations...
22:03.33rdancerLeeds: artritis...
22:03.55Leedsrdancer: then, frankly, as I said - get a mac - it just works
22:04.24rdancerLeeds: i'm going to
22:05.14rdanceri like things like these ss5
22:05.43rdancersomething that after 10 years of service Just Works (ok, apart from that one dead memory module)
22:06.03rdancerwith that said, nn
22:06.11Leedsit did strike me today that I have 2 general-purpose PCs and one special-purpose, and 2 general-purpose PowerPCs and one special-purpose
22:06.13Leedsg'night
22:08.08*** join/#gllug BobtheAvenger (Bob@dial81-131-132-44.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
22:08.13BobtheAvengercalm yet?
22:08.56Leedsno more so than I was :-)
22:09.32BobtheAvengerwell thayts useful
22:11.04Leedsor to put it another way - I've been pretty calm for days now, and you need to work on your sense of dark humour :-)
22:11.54BobtheAvengerthen go spit of a bridge
22:12.06LeedsI beg your pardon?
22:12.21BobtheAvengerspit at cars from a bridge
22:12.40Leedswhy on earth would I want to do that?
22:12.56BobtheAvenger2 calm down
22:13.16Leedsum... that's a strange way of calming down
22:13.26BobtheAvengerit beats hittin walls
22:14.13LeedsI tend to go for kicking in cardboard in those sorts of situations... although a mate of mine did put his hand through a window once while on the phone
22:14.26BobtheAvengerheh
22:14.34Leedsreasonably calmly, I understand :-)
22:14.51BobtheAvengerlast time i got angry and hit a wall i couldnt move my little finger for days
22:15.10Leedshe then went down to the bomb shelter, got the emergency medical supplies, bandanged himself up, and slept down there
22:15.26BobtheAvengersounds sencible
22:15.43Leedsyes, as I said... calm :-)
22:15.53BobtheAvengeryep
22:16.35Leedsanyway, I used to hit people, not walls, when I was around your age
22:17.11BobtheAvengeri dont cos if when i hit a wall i hurt myself thats bad, i could really hurt a person
22:18.36Leedsif you care, you're not doing it right
22:19.06BobtheAvengeri didnt care then but i cared for the next week when i couldn't move it
22:19.22LeedsI meant about the person
22:20.15BobtheAvengerif there is a person about who i really dislike i would do more than hit them given the chance
22:20.55Leedsah, now, see, I wouldn't
22:21.23Leedswell, I wouldn't hit them at all now
22:21.42Leedsthe last time I threatened to hit anyone and meant it was a few years ago, and it was jonmasters
22:21.48BobtheAvengerits had to provoke me but when i am people run
22:22.23LeedsI used to be like that, but I had to deal with it before I got myself into serious trouble
22:22.37BobtheAvengeryer thats why i hit walls
22:23.14LeedsI just forced my temper under control
22:23.26BobtheAvengeri'm usually calm
22:23.36Leedsthe worst I'm likely to do now is some colourful swearing on IRC :-)
22:23.40BobtheAvengersome people find it hard to believe that i shout
22:24.28BobtheAvengermainly cos i keep my temper under control
22:24.52BobtheAvengercalm is better
22:25.18Leedsmy other thing is that I used to be very assertive, even agressive, in conversations/discussions/debates - forced myself into control of the conversation - I consciously try to avoid that now
22:25.34Eeyoremy brother damaged his hand punching a wall
22:25.40Eeyorestill can't play tennis properly
22:25.47Leedsoo-er
22:25.54BobtheAvengerouch
22:26.15BobtheAvengerstress balls are good bouncey balls
22:27.24BobtheAvengerdid anyone go to the extreme sports thing at earls court this weekend?
22:29.03Leedsnope
22:29.14BobtheAvengerit was good
22:29.58BobtheAvengeri jumped off a balconey
22:30.35Leedsfun
22:30.36BobtheAvengeryer
22:31.18BobtheAvengerthats something to confuse the teachers tomorow
22:31.35Leedsdeath slide? abseiling?
22:32.02BobtheAvengerthere was absailing but i had to go before i got a chance to do it
22:32.21BobtheAvengerthere was a climbing machine
22:32.25LeedsI've abseiled down cliffs to the dead sea - much fun :-)
22:33.06Eeyoreman i'd have loved to do that kind of stuff
22:33.31BobtheAvengeri got stuck absailing once
22:33.45Leedsthat's the only time I've done it...
22:34.22LeedsI've water-skiied on an artificial lake near Tel Aviv, and on the Red Sea... I've driven quad bikes in the desert...
22:34.25BobtheAvengerangel jumps are fun
22:34.41Leedsibot change 13.58 cad to gbp
22:34.43Leedsangel jumps?
22:34.48BobtheAvengererm
22:35.14Leedsexchange rate mechanism?
22:35.15BobtheAvengerimagine you about to absail, with all that equipment
22:35.46BobtheAvengeryou let out a certail amount of rope through
22:36.23BobtheAvengerthen you jump and hope there enough distance between you and the ground when the rope tightens to stop you
22:36.43BobtheAvengerkinda like a bungee jump
22:37.03Leedsum... that doesn't sound like fun... :-)  sounds like brown-trousers time
22:37.15BobtheAvengerits fun
22:37.58Leedsokay...
22:38.20BobtheAvengerits like jumping of a balconey, adrenaline
22:38.52BobtheAvengeranyway
22:39.02BobtheAvengerit got school, so peace
22:39.03Leedsso the whole balconey-jumping thing... that was onto a mat or something?
22:39.17BobtheAvengeryer a mat
22:39.23Leedscool
22:39.24Leedsg'night
22:45.49JAVs/seen/saw
22:49.02Leedshmm... good?
22:52.20Leedsibot change 39.98 cad to gbp
23:02.04highburyLeeds: it might actually be me paying for it. I'm bidding to do some work at a site which has some mac's and I would like to check whether *my* software will work. I'll be doing the testing, I may on the basis of that get paid, or not, if the job falls thru, but I'd like to be more au fait with the macOS in case the job (2 weeks well paid work) comes off.
23:02.37Leedshighbury: ah, wel...
23:03.33highburyit might also help me decide whether its worth spending my own money on a Mac
23:03.42Leedsthere's no particular reason why you couldn't borrow it while I'm away, assuming I'm not going to take it with me :-)
23:03.53rhoweIf you're very very quick, Leeds might be able to get you a discount on a new mac
23:04.16highburyhmmmm, that would be very cool leeds
23:04.46highburyI can't justify buying one at the moment, unless i know I'm going to get the contract
23:05.41rhowebtw, as of soon, Gnomemeeting CVS has support for SIP audio calls
23:05.54Leedssweet
23:05.56rhowe(as well as H323)
23:06.18rhoweIt doesn't do call hold or transfer yet, but should do call forwarding
23:07.20*** part/#gllug highbury (~steve@81-1-69-130.homechoice.co.uk)
23:07.41*** join/#gllug highbury (~steve@81-1-69-130.homechoice.co.uk)
23:08.21rhowesoon being possibly right now, but almost certainly before FOSDEM
23:08.35rhoweI haven't bothered apt'ing gnome-dev to check :)
23:08.36Leedsheh
23:08.52highburyLeeds: if your serious I'll catch up with you before you head off
23:08.54Leedsthat's the second project I've now heard of using FOSDEM as a deadline...
23:09.22rhoweWell considering the GM author's organising FOSDEM.. :)
23:09.38Leedshighbury: do that...  I'm at FOSDEM next week, and going to Israel on the afternoon of the 5th, but I'm not at work after Tuesday, because they won't let me in...
23:10.01Leedsrhowe: yes, I know - his bird tends to distract people from the technical talks... :-)
23:10.50highburyLeeds: so I'll write on my calendar, that I should come visit you on the 4th?
23:11.04Leedshighbury: sounds sensible
23:11.21highburygreat! thanks Leeds!
23:12.18highburyhmm, I wonder whether it'll work fine with my kvm switch :-)
23:12.36Leedsusb-only, obviously
23:13.26highburyahhh
23:14.01LeedsI've got keyboard and mouse... :-)
23:15.03highburywe'll negotiate on the day. anyways gotta go crash out now, just had two days of intensive family bonding
23:15.23highburynn filks
23:15.27Leedssure...
23:15.29Leedsg'night
23:19.42Georgeif I send an SMS and request status notification
23:19.47Georgeand it says the SMS wasn't delivered
23:19.53Georgewill I still get charged?
23:27.06JAVof course
23:28.45Georgegrr
23:28.47Georgesucks
23:28.55Georgewill it keep trying to send the message?
23:29.15JAVas soon as the receptor turns on his mobile
23:29.36JAVyou can set that option on your mobile
23:29.42Georgeno
23:29.46JAV1 day, 1 week,...
23:29.50Georgethe phone is on...
23:29.59Georgeand in reception
23:30.08Georgebut status notification says that the message delivery failed
23:30.11Georgewhich i've never had before
23:30.17Georgeeven when sending to phone that's been switched off
23:31.33JAVyou mean in the sms they send you back?
23:31.41GeorgeI have no idea
23:31.46JAVor instantly
23:31.49Georgemy phone just says "message failed to be delivered"
23:31.54Georgea few seconds after I send it
23:32.38JAVyou'll be charged for sure :D
23:32.45Georgegrumble

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