02:24.12 | *** join/#gllug gregj (~gj@62.121.136.6) |
04:01.19 | *** join/#gllug eye69 (magnus@ipv6.upcore.net) |
04:14.41 | *** join/#gllug JAV (~JAV@105.Red-80-34-40.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
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09:12.31 | morsing | morning? |
10:02.58 | highbury | morning |
10:34.18 | Leeds | morning folks |
10:51.06 | morsing | Leeds! How's the boyfriend-phonecalls coming? |
11:18.41 | *** join/#gllug MiniLeeds (~richardc@host-212-158-207-148.bulldogdsl.com) |
11:19.24 | rhowe | mornin' |
11:22.46 | MiniLeeds | rhowe: you were meant to be there to stop me buying too much! |
11:23.12 | rhowe | lol |
11:23.32 | rhowe | What did you get? |
11:24.29 | MiniLeeds | power cable... |
11:24.32 | MiniLeeds | keyboard... |
11:24.40 | MiniLeeds | wireless/optical/rechargable mouse |
11:24.42 | MiniLeeds | wifi |
11:24.45 | MiniLeeds | bluetooth |
11:24.47 | MiniLeeds | hub |
11:24.53 | MiniLeeds | all USB except the power cable.. |
11:25.12 | rhowe | fun |
11:25.16 | MiniLeeds | indeed |
11:25.24 | highbury | MiniLeeds: you got a MacMini then? |
11:25.48 | MiniLeeds | and all work on the Mac, which is useful - particularly the wifi - I had to hunt around for a supported 802.11g dongle |
11:25.51 | MiniLeeds | highbury: yup |
11:26.01 | highbury | bought in uk or us? |
11:26.15 | MiniLeeds | in the US |
11:26.30 | highbury | how much cheaper? how much did you spec it up by? |
11:26.42 | MiniLeeds | I called the Apple store in Boston on Wednesday morning and they had a few in, so I went and bought it retail |
11:27.15 | MiniLeeds | it's the basic spec - 1.25GHz processor, 40GB drive, CDRW/DVD (not DVD+-RW), no wifi or bluetooth onboard |
11:28.01 | MiniLeeds | the only choice I had was slow proc and small drive for (just under) $499 or faster proc (1.4GHz) and bigger drive (80GB) for (just under) $599 |
11:28.24 | MiniLeeds | I didn't have time to order it with specific options - hence having bought USB bluetooth and wifi |
11:28.36 | highbury | k. cool |
11:29.03 | highbury | how does the speed compare with your pwoerbook? given 2.5" drives etc |
11:29.10 | MiniLeeds | retail price is $499 - you buy it retail you pay 5% tax, but I get a 6% discount for the next 2 days as a Sun employee |
11:29.37 | MiniLeeds | it's a very similar spec to my powerbook - except for the RAM, which I will probably end up upgrading - pb has 512MB, mini has 256MB |
11:30.15 | MiniLeeds | right now I'm not quite sure what I want it for - it was an impulse buy - so I've got it hooked up to a crappy monitor which doesn't really deserve it |
11:31.31 | MiniLeeds | I could have got you one... but I was paranoid enough about customs as it was :-) |
11:32.18 | MiniLeeds | it cost me about £70 less than UK retail in the end... and I didn't have to wait the 2-3 weeks estimated shipping |
11:41.36 | highbury | I could lease one off you |
11:43.16 | rhowe | hmmm http://www.siksai.co.uk/~rhowe/exim-8bitmime-fu.txt |
11:48.53 | MiniLeeds | highbury: what would you actually need, and when? |
11:54.35 | *** join/#gllug mz2 (~mz@81.1.81.59) |
11:54.59 | MiniLeeds | morning mz2 |
11:55.09 | mz2 | morning |
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13:07.35 | *** join/#gllug rdancer (~r--t@rdancer.user) |
13:07.44 | rdancer | anybody going to TC fairs? |
13:07.54 | Leeds | um... yesterday |
13:08.13 | rdancer | fair 'nough |
13:08.21 | rdancer | no money yesterday 8-) |
13:08.29 | Leeds | I don't think they run on Sundays, do they? |
13:08.35 | rdancer | (-8 some money today |
13:08.37 | rdancer | they do |
13:08.56 | Leeds | you're sure? |
13:08.57 | rdancer | sat and sun, 10am-4pm, approx |
13:09.06 | rdancer | pretty sure |
13:10.39 | Leeds | I'm reasonably sure they don't |
13:10.45 | Leeds | this is TCR you're talking about? |
13:10.49 | rdancer | if they're not, i'm going to spend the money on clothes |
13:10.58 | rdancer | yes, Tottenham Court Rd. |
13:11.37 | Leeds | well, the bcf ones (at the top of the street) seem to be saturday only |
13:11.50 | rdancer | hmm |
13:11.55 | rdancer | there are 2 fairs, right? |
13:12.03 | Leeds | there is ruislip and croydon today |
13:12.10 | rdancer | oh |
13:12.18 | Leeds | yes, there's also a fair at the bottom of the street, but I don't know who runs that one |
13:12.36 | rdancer | you lost me somewhere after ``there is'' |
13:12.49 | Leeds | they are suburbs |
13:13.42 | rdancer | Ruislip HA4 0JE |
13:13.59 | Leeds | yes |
13:15.17 | rdancer | central line |
13:15.22 | rdancer | south ruislip |
13:16.19 | rdancer | seems like i'll do something else.... like .... i might catch upon sleeping i think |
13:16.28 | morsing | Which is better: pulling the phone cable upstairs to the modem and computer or the network cable and modem downstairs, closer to the phone socket? I suspect the second. |
13:17.03 | Leeds | I would say the first - less cabling - but are you asking in terms of signal quality? |
13:17.06 | rdancer | morsing: what network cable? |
13:18.00 | morsing | 5e |
13:18.13 | morsing | Leeds: Quality yes |
13:18.25 | rdancer | few tens of meters of 5e never hurt |
13:18.32 | Leeds | morsing: then probably the latter |
13:18.33 | rdancer | if it's ethernet, that is |
13:18.54 | morsing | Good |
13:19.10 | Leeds | argh! |
13:19.23 | rdancer | dsl otoh has quite a big problems with cable lengths |
13:19.42 | Leeds | why can I never remember the URL of that bloody government-run travel site with maps, route planning and so on |
13:19.56 | rdancer | 10m is a *lot* with cable tv |
13:20.10 | Leeds | it's something like travelguide.info but not |
13:20.13 | rdancer | ~ibot google government-run travel site with maps, route planning and so on |
13:20.46 | Leeds | rdancer: not helpful - you really think I'm so stupid not to have tried that? |
13:20.59 | rdancer | Leeds: 8-) |
13:21.24 | rdancer | the results are obviously bogus... seems like google doesn't like shouting ;-) |
13:21.47 | rdancer | ibot: google site:.gov.uk bloody government-run travel site with maps, route planning and so on |
13:22.26 | rdancer | .uk sites are in general very badly googlable |
13:22.32 | rdancer | afaict |
13:22.42 | Leeds | it's not a .uk |
13:22.49 | rdancer | ah' |
13:23.54 | Leeds | we've discussed it here before - it's a great site, but I've got a mental block on the URL |
13:24.29 | Leeds | and it's new and badly-advertised enough that no-one seems to link to it |
13:27.17 | Leeds | found it! |
13:27.25 | Leeds | amazingly, from www.gov.uk! |
13:27.49 | Leeds | and now we get back to the problem that for some reason, my laptop can't see it |
13:28.14 | rhowe | transportdirect.info? |
13:28.14 | Leeds | can anyone see transportdirect.info? |
13:28.18 | rhowe | :P |
13:28.32 | Leeds | rhowe: piss off |
13:28.38 | rhowe | Yes, I can |
13:28.58 | Leeds | well why can't I? |
13:29.16 | rhowe | *shrug* :) |
13:31.51 | rhowe | www.transportdirect.infoA157.203.42.250 |
13:32.07 | Leeds | yes, yes... my dns is b0rken |
13:32.33 | rhowe | ooh, it's not a virtual host - you can use the IP address |
13:38.24 | Leeds | hmm... it's going to be cold in brussels at t'end of t'week |
13:38.46 | Leeds | forcast on bbc for thursday is freezing, with snow |
13:38.59 | rhowe | yay |
13:39.22 | Leeds | :-) |
13:39.26 | rhowe | I bought a hat and gloves a couple of months ago and have hardly had a chance to use them |
13:39.27 | Leeds | snow is cool |
13:40.11 | rhowe | and sometimes even cold |
13:41.45 | Leeds | some friends of mine went to Eilat yesterday - southern tip of Israel... |
13:42.01 | Leeds | the high forcasted there for this week is 30 degrees :-) |
13:42.06 | rhowe | Eilat as opposed to Islet |
13:42.20 | rhowe | heh |
13:42.32 | Leeds | although apparently it's drizzling right now |
13:42.52 | rhowe | warm drizzle though, one would assume |
13:43.04 | Leeds | yes |
13:43.45 | Leeds | then again: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4281261.stm |
13:45.23 | rhowe | whee, more snow |
13:46.12 | Leeds | my parents' immediate response to "I'm being laid off, they won't let me in the office after Tuesday" was "oh, great - you can come up to Leeds and visit us!" |
13:47.01 | Leeds | well, alright, maybe not immediate immediate... |
13:53.27 | rhowe | heh |
14:11.08 | morsing | Warning: Don't buy rolls of ethernet cable at Maplins! |
14:21.08 | *** join/#gllug rdancer (~r--t@rdancer.user) |
14:23.59 | rhowe | s/rolls of ethernet cable/*/ |
14:24.04 | rhowe | ahaha - Feb 20 Floyd Cervantes ( 0) SPAM-HIGH Perform like a sexual Dynamo! |
14:24.07 | rhowe | How do you power *your* home? |
14:42.29 | *** join/#gllug BobtheAvenger (Bob@host213-122-12-190.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
14:42.40 | BobtheAvenger | hey |
14:52.35 | *** join/#gllug rdancer (~r--t@rdancer.user) |
15:16.41 | BobtheAvenger | hey |
16:25.12 | BobtheAvenger | hey |
16:26.01 | evangineer | hey back |
16:26.12 | BobtheAvenger | how are you? |
16:26.39 | evangineer | fine |
16:26.53 | rhowe | s/y$// |
16:27.36 | BobtheAvenger | hey rhowe |
16:27.44 | rhowe | heya |
16:28.06 | BobtheAvenger | how are you? |
16:29.55 | rhowe | Just working through the backlog of stuff to do |
16:30.27 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
16:32.17 | rhowe | heh, exim's delivering 12 messages per second |
16:32.29 | BobtheAvenger | that good? |
16:32.38 | rhowe | Well, it has about 1000 to delivery |
16:32.40 | rhowe | s/y$// |
16:32.48 | rhowe | damnit, why do I always add a y? |
16:33.14 | BobtheAvenger | so its looking to take just under 3hrs? |
16:33.29 | BobtheAvenger | http://www.bbspot.com/News/2005/01/bush_countdown.html |
16:34.03 | rhowe | Damn wireless mice - all too easy to lose |
16:34.10 | BobtheAvenger | yer |
16:34.16 | BobtheAvenger | i use optical now |
16:34.22 | rhowe | Same here |
16:34.54 | BobtheAvenger | it got annoying trying to find it and getting new batteries |
16:36.55 | rhowe | # egrep -c '^2005-02-20 16:.*Completed' /var/log/exim4/mainlog |
16:36.55 | rhowe | 3517 |
16:36.58 | rhowe | Done :) |
16:37.21 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
16:39.43 | rhowe | INBOX [Msgs:2191 New:2188] |
16:39.49 | rhowe | hmmm |
16:40.43 | BobtheAvenger | thats alot of messages |
16:41.06 | rhowe | That's only the inbox stuff :) |
16:41.14 | rhowe | procmail will have filtered a lot off elsewhere |
16:41.26 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
16:42.17 | rhowe | 437 new linux-xfs emails to peruse |
16:42.49 | BobtheAvenger | heh |
16:43.18 | BobtheAvenger | rather you than me doing this work |
16:43.28 | rhowe | Nah, I think I've read most of them |
16:43.34 | rhowe | Just that the state wasn't preserved |
16:43.39 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
16:44.27 | BobtheAvenger | my shoulder muscles ache after yesterday |
16:46.13 | BobtheAvenger | anyway |
16:46.14 | BobtheAvenger | peace |
18:12.21 | *** join/#gllug BobtheAvenger (Bob@host213-122-150-82.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
18:12.32 | BobtheAvenger | hey |
18:31.25 | Leeds | hi |
18:32.34 | BobtheAvenger | how are you? |
18:32.45 | Leeds | not bad |
18:32.53 | Leeds | dreading having to do anything serious ever again |
18:33.24 | Leeds | I just really can't be bothered with anythin |
18:34.35 | Leeds | and comptemplating a rude reply to the mail which says "Thank you to the entire Solaris team" saying "apart from those of us who've had our projects and then jobs stolen out from underneath us, you mean?" |
18:35.29 | BobtheAvenger | i fink u should, unless you want a referance |
18:35.37 | Leeds | yeah... |
18:36.03 | Leeds | alternatively, I could just put it in the "can't be bothered" column along with most of the rest of my life |
18:36.20 | BobtheAvenger | your choice |
18:37.37 | BobtheAvenger | C doesnt have bool data type yer? |
18:38.24 | Leeds | I suspect the answer is that we're already gone enough that they don't care what we think - particularly to Americans who are used to laid-off meaning "escorted from the premisies that day" and who therefore assume people aren't around and reading mail afterwards |
18:38.31 | Leeds | nope, no explicit bool |
18:38.37 | BobtheAvenger | ok good good |
18:39.10 | BobtheAvenger | someones writen a load of code which i think is in C but uses bool like every few lines |
18:39.31 | Leeds | well, you can typedef it easily enough |
18:39.44 | BobtheAvenger | yer, i wrote an enum for it |
18:42.52 | BobtheAvenger | whats on friday apart form the weekend? |
18:43.15 | Leeds | getting out of the country again |
18:43.44 | BobtheAvenger | where you going? |
18:43.44 | Leeds | fosdem |
18:44.03 | Leeds | ibot fosdem |
18:44.04 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, fosdem is the Free and Open source Software Developers' European Meeting, a 2 day event, organized by volunteers, to promote the widespread use of Free and Open Source software. http://www.fosdem.org, or on the 21st and 22nd of February in 2004 |
18:44.38 | BobtheAvenger | hope you have fun |
18:45.08 | Leeds | thanks... most of the regulars here are going :-) |
18:45.22 | Leeds | ibot no, fosdem is the Free and Open source Software Developers' European Meeting, a 2 day event, organized by volunteers, to promote the widespread use of Free and Open Source software. http://www.fosdem.org |
18:45.23 | ibot | Leeds: okay |
18:45.37 | Leeds | ibot fosdem is also on 26th and 27th February in 2005 |
18:45.38 | ibot | Leeds: okay |
18:46.13 | Leeds | oh, plus, hopefully, Friday is my penultimate full payday |
18:46.27 | BobtheAvenger | that good? |
18:50.25 | Leeds | well, payday is a good thing |
18:50.39 | BobtheAvenger | but penultimate is bad |
18:58.15 | Leeds | true |
19:28.36 | BobtheAvenger | peqace |
19:46.34 | Leeds | ping, anyone around? |
19:53.51 | JAV | yes |
19:54.47 | Leeds | quick question... what does setuid or setgid on a directory mean? |
20:07.06 | gregj | http://wiki.7thguard.net/lmj/Notatki/tlumaczenie-skandynawia |
20:07.20 | gregj | can someone please proof-read English part there ? |
20:08.29 | Leeds | first thing: you acl is broken :-) |
20:11.40 | Leeds | there are lots of things... |
20:12.06 | *** join/#gllug mz2 (~mz@81.1.81.59) |
20:12.31 | gregj | Leeds: it's wiki, feel free to edit it if you can/want |
20:13.45 | JAV | Leeds: permissions? |
20:13.54 | Leeds | JAV: yes |
20:14.21 | mz2 | tomboy just made my day |
20:14.48 | JAV | default group for new files and directories under it, i guess |
20:15.33 | Leeds | gregj: and why should I help Poles like that? they're only in the EU to get development funds and steal jobs |
20:16.31 | Leeds | JAV: for or against? :-) |
20:17.21 | JAV | I downloaded the pdf... after the first page i decided firmly YES |
20:17.26 | gregj | Leeds: :> |
20:17.32 | JAV | (so booooring) |
20:17.36 | JAV | O: |
20:17.41 | JAV | O:) |
20:17.52 | Leeds | ah, a new plan... bore voters into submission :-) |
20:17.58 | JAV | right |
20:18.04 | gregj | Leeds: we also have charming girls, and loads of juish ppl |
20:19.18 | Leeds | gregj: seriously, and it's nothing personal, but in my mind, Poland really shouldn't be talking about having lots of Jews... |
20:19.18 | JAV | there were tv ads with famous people (excellent argument) asking for 'yes' |
20:19.41 | Leeds | JAV: there's a good chance of the NOs winning here |
20:20.14 | JAV | but no real information about the document |
20:21.12 | Leeds | because the doument is far too long and complicated for non-diplomats to read, never mind understand |
20:21.32 | gregj | Leeds: why ? |
20:21.55 | Leeds | gregj: becuase Poles weren't exactly helpful to Jews during the war |
20:22.07 | gregj | Leeds: you mean because of so called "polish holocaust" ? which is called Polish only bcause that was on Polish teritory |
20:22.14 | gregj | Leeds: there were some helpfull and some not |
20:22.18 | gregj | like everywhere |
20:22.26 | Leeds | there were a lot less helpful than not |
20:22.31 | gregj | concentration camps where german, not polish |
20:22.37 | gregj | how do you know ? |
20:22.51 | Leeds | from what I've read and heard |
20:22.56 | gregj | I know Jews would like everyone to be helpfull, but I don't think that will ever happend |
20:23.20 | Leeds | I'm not saying that |
20:23.24 | gregj | and I know some old ppl who risked their lives helping jews, would you like to tell them that you don't like Poles becouse of that ? |
20:23.36 | gregj | that's not quite right to jude ppl that way |
20:23.36 | Leeds | I never said I didn't like Poles |
20:23.43 | JAV | I think that if it's so important they should have done a 'sesame street'-like tv program with several chapters on public tv explaining it in plain language |
20:23.56 | Leeds | JAV: you're probably right |
20:23.57 | gregj | and how do you think Churchil helped poles ? |
20:24.11 | Leeds | gregj: what does churchill have to do with anything? |
20:24.38 | gregj | I shouldn't like Brits because they were not helping poles during WW2, and they are talking about our discoveries during that war as "their probably greatest thing" |
20:24.42 | gregj | or something like that |
20:24.53 | gregj | there was treaty signed before WW2 |
20:25.00 | Leeds | I never said I didn't like poles |
20:25.10 | Leeds | I said Poland should not be proud of having many Jews |
20:25.23 | gregj | and Churchil never helped poland when it was invaded by Germans |
20:26.00 | Leeds | it was, of course, nothing to do with churchill, since he was elected long after the invasion |
20:26.06 | gregj | well, we in Cracow are quite proud of Jewish quarter,or whatever you will call it |
20:26.08 | Leeds | but I don't care about churchill |
20:26.23 | gregj | I think it was his decision not to help us |
20:27.30 | gregj | brits knew back in 1941 that there are concentration camps on polish teritory, but they were not doing anything about it because they didn't belive |
20:27.30 | Leeds | he only became pm in 1940 |
20:27.42 | gregj | what he was doing before than ? |
20:27.52 | Leeds | he ran the british navy |
20:28.15 | Leeds | but he is irrelevent |
20:28.21 | gregj | well, he than let Stalin and russia to ocupy poland till 1989 |
20:28.34 | gregj | whatever, we will find something on him ;) |
20:28.57 | Leeds | are you honestly saying that you think poland should be proud of what happened to her Jewish population during the war? |
20:29.04 | gregj | anyway, back to the square one, if you can, please check that doc. It's for some EU conference |
20:29.16 | gregj | Leeds: we are not proud of it |
20:29.25 | Leeds | and that's all I said |
20:29.35 | gregj | Leeds: as we are not proud about what Germans did to US overall |
20:29.52 | gregj | by us I mean poles, not so called UnitedStates |
20:30.41 | gregj | s/about/of/ |
20:30.49 | Leeds | other countries were far less complicit in what was done to their Jews |
20:32.08 | gregj | well, number of Jews in Poland was much bigger than in other countries |
20:32.29 | gregj | for instance my home town, Cracows population was nearly 50% Jews |
20:33.07 | gregj | that's why so many of them escaped from Poland after 33 or so, and just before the war |
20:35.14 | Leeds | I'm not saying it was welcomed, but other countries fought a lot harder to protect their population |
20:35.45 | gregj | don't think so myself |
20:36.00 | gregj | it was hitler, and his raich that was fighting Jews, not poles |
20:37.27 | Leeds | in every country, they used locals to help |
20:37.57 | gregj | yep |
20:38.30 | gregj | even in my familly I know some helped others during ww2, dunno if they were Jews thou |
20:38.49 | gregj | I know my grand grand father was shot, and some others from my familiy too |
20:39.21 | gregj | but I don't know about anyone helping Germans |
20:39.27 | Leeds | http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%20692.pdf |
20:45.49 | gregj | it doesn't load here |
20:45.52 | gregj | stops on 8% |
20:45.57 | gregj | probably windows server ;) |
20:46.43 | Leeds | http://www1.yadvashem.org/Odot/prog/index_before_change_table.asp?GATE=Z&list_type=2-52&type_id=4&total=N |
20:47.00 | Leeds | it's the document about the church |
20:47.02 | gregj | changing viewer helped |
20:47.59 | gregj | but that's totaly untrue |
20:48.17 | gregj | I knew that some thought Jews were threat, but these were minority |
20:48.32 | gregj | but as usual, minority speaks loudest about their problems |
20:48.33 | gregj | .. |
20:49.37 | gregj | besides, I am not catholic my self anyway |
20:50.37 | Leeds | http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%203128.pdf |
20:50.44 | Leeds | and many other documents on that site |
20:51.35 | Cope | evening |
20:51.59 | Leeds | evening |
20:52.32 | Cope | we just got back from seeing my sister off to usa |
20:52.50 | Leeds | she escaped? |
20:53.15 | *** join/#gllug stephanb (~stef@dsl-80-44-197-187.access.as9105.com) |
20:54.10 | highbury | Leeds: re: leasing a mac, week commencing 7-Mar probably for 2 weeks, needs to have latest non-beta version os MacOS X |
20:54.57 | Leeds | highbury: thing is... as it happens... I'm going to be away for 2 weeks, starting 5th March... :-) and I happen to have a spare, new Mac here with the latest non-beta OS X :-) |
20:56.32 | Leeds | highbury: this may be a silly question... but I assume it wouldn't be *you* personally leasing it? Someone else would be paying? |
20:57.08 | Leeds | because I wouldn't take your money - if you needed it, you'd be welcome to borrow it... but if it's not your money... :-) |
20:59.07 | rhowe | Kung Fu Hustle (2004)(Dansk Tekst-Svcd).mpg finishing in 10:03:55 (14.5%) |
20:59.11 | rhowe | whee :) |
21:08.34 | evangineer | hey Cope |
21:10.44 | *** join/#gllug BobtheAvenger (Bob@dial81-131-132-44.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
21:10.54 | BobtheAvenger | hey |
21:14.04 | Cope | hello there evangineer |
21:14.41 | Leeds | BobtheAvenger: so, how is you linux experiment progressing? |
21:14.41 | BobtheAvenger | hey Cope |
21:15.06 | BobtheAvenger | erm not so great |
21:16.01 | BobtheAvenger | brb heater burning |
21:16.35 | BobtheAvenger | back |
21:16.47 | BobtheAvenger | i installed it but theres so much crap on the hd it wont install |
21:18.08 | *** join/#gllug rdancer (~r--t@host81-134-154-141.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
21:18.14 | BobtheAvenger | hey |
21:18.20 | rdancer | ibot: change 65 USD to GBP |
21:18.32 | rdancer | ibot: change 65 USD to CZK |
21:19.21 | rdancer | heh -- 200mW prism 2.5 for 1.5k CZK -- that's ridiculous 8-) |
21:21.19 | BobtheAvenger | dman this heater |
21:22.43 | BobtheAvenger | *damn |
21:25.03 | BobtheAvenger | its started sparking |
21:25.17 | Leeds | then turn it off now, carefully |
21:25.22 | Cope | exciting |
21:25.41 | BobtheAvenger | i turned it off and now it wont work |
21:25.50 | Leeds | that's good |
21:26.03 | BobtheAvenger | or not good |
21:26.11 | Leeds | nope, it's good |
21:26.21 | Leeds | when mains things start sparking, you unplug them and throw them away |
21:26.33 | BobtheAvenger | no jus the heater |
21:27.00 | Leeds | you do not keep trying to use if, if you want to stay alive |
21:27.29 | BobtheAvenger | i'm not gonnatry commenting |
21:27.50 | rdancer | BobtheAvenger: do as Leeds said |
21:28.20 | BobtheAvenger | i will |
21:28.38 | Leeds | good :-) |
21:29.26 | BobtheAvenger | it'll be fine |
21:29.47 | rdancer | i want a pc card from a vendor that actively supports free sw |
21:29.56 | Leeds | please tell me you mean "I'd rather be cold tha dead" |
21:30.08 | rdancer | this fucking ndiswrapper thingy toght me a lesson i think |
21:30.11 | BobtheAvenger | ? |
21:30.13 | rdancer | *tought |
21:30.47 | Leeds | taught |
21:30.53 | rdancer | Leeds: that's false dichotomy: with tonight's weather, cold => dead ;-) |
21:31.00 | *** join/#gllug yrmate (~yrmate@195.54.250.41) |
21:31.08 | rdancer | yes, did teach |
21:31.08 | Leeds | rdancer: ? |
21:31.13 | Leeds | evening yrmate |
21:31.19 | BobtheAvenger | hey |
21:31.27 | rdancer | ho |
21:31.57 | rdancer | Leeds: with the ndiswrapper running, the system goes oom ~ once a day |
21:32.05 | Leeds | rdancer: ugh ugh ugh |
21:32.23 | yrmate | hiya Leeds |
21:32.54 | rdancer | plus if you try to rmmod ndiswrapper without ifconfig wlan0 down, any subsequent ifconfig invocation will simply block |
21:33.29 | Leeds | rdancer: I do't know why you'd try to use it in the first place |
21:33.58 | rdancer | i had to start telling my friend: no, you can't browse www, 'cause last 3 times you used firefox, i had to reboot. i know it's not your fault, but... |
21:34.03 | Leeds | yrmate: are you after anything in particular, or just wanting to hang out and chat :-) |
21:34.23 | rdancer | Leeds: i just went to TC, and decided to buy something *NOW* |
21:34.37 | Leeds | rdancer: well, that was dumb :-P |
21:34.41 | rdancer | Leeds: it connect another friend's laptop, so i can't unplug it |
21:35.31 | rdancer | might have been dumb, but it was *cheap* |
21:35.48 | Leeds | there are also things which are cheap and work |
21:35.59 | rdancer | not at TCR, apparently |
21:36.30 | Leeds | this is wireless, I assume? |
21:36.36 | rdancer | in fact i bought the worst thingy i could: TI 111 |
21:37.09 | rdancer | it goes like 100 is ok, 110 is workable, 111 is bleeding edge, and won't even iwconfig with the native linux driver |
21:37.28 | rdancer | yes, 802.11g |
21:37.36 | yrmate | well, can you recommend me a cheapo wireless pcmcia card that is currently available at shops in london. linux supported that is |
21:37.55 | rdancer | yrmate: i can give you this one ;-p |
21:37.58 | Leeds | yrmate: talk to rdancer - that's what he's complaining about right now :-) |
21:38.13 | yrmate | my oh my! |
21:38.17 | rdancer | yrmate: stay away from cisco aironet, and anything TI-based |
21:38.30 | rdancer | in fact, anything by cisco |
21:38.31 | Leeds | surely prism is still the best bet? |
21:38.36 | rdancer | Leeds: seems so |
21:38.45 | rdancer | dlink, edimax, ... shit oh shit |
21:39.01 | yrmate | but can you be more specific. i mean mention brand name and model polz |
21:39.01 | rdancer | openbsd.org pointed me out to netgate.com |
21:39.12 | rdancer | dunno |
21:39.22 | rdancer | that's what i'm asking |
21:39.29 | Leeds | yrmate: sorry, dunno precise models - check the prism54 site |
21:39.58 | Leeds | yrmate: that's assuming you want 802.11g, since 802.11b sucks |
21:40.00 | rdancer | yrmate: prism54 is rather new thing still, afaik |
21:40.15 | rdancer | yrmate: you need 802.11g? |
21:40.37 | yrmate | Leeds, i do not know |
21:40.47 | Leeds | http://prism54.org/supported_cards.php :-( |
21:40.53 | Leeds | yrmate: do you know the difference? |
21:41.00 | yrmate | speed |
21:41.05 | Leeds | rdancer: it seems things have got a lot worse since I last looked |
21:41.18 | Leeds | yrmate: right, speed - 802.11b is very slow... |
21:41.37 | yrmate | slow for what? |
21:41.45 | Leeds | well, anything 'streaming' |
21:41.53 | yrmate | video? |
21:41.59 | Cope | nose? |
21:42.26 | Leeds | it's fine for anything going across a private internet link, because that's very slow (in network terms), but local things are just horrible at that speed |
21:42.30 | rdancer | 802.11b is 5Mbps effective bandwidth (i.e. what you get from ftp server) |
21:42.30 | Leeds | Cope: indeed |
21:42.56 | yrmate | what about warchalking in london? |
21:42.58 | Leeds | rdancer: that's the maximum optimal speed |
21:43.05 | rdancer | so video is ok there |
21:43.08 | rdancer | Leeds: true |
21:43.19 | rdancer | it's shared spectrum, of course |
21:43.44 | rdancer | in fact, you get something like 18MB accross all the channels |
21:43.59 | rdancer | yrmate: then you want prism54 |
21:44.00 | Leeds | yrmate: unless you know you can't afford it, you want 802.11g is what I'm saying - in the same way that you'd have to be insane to plan to use anything slower than 100mbit ethernet nowadays |
21:44.15 | Leeds | rdancer: did you look at the prism54 site? |
21:44.23 | rdancer | Leeds: looking atm |
21:45.01 | rdancer | Leeds: ``not changing the FCC ID'' -- those kids are nuts |
21:45.09 | Leeds | yes :-( |
21:45.30 | yrmate | Leeds, 802.11b is ok for web browsing, updating my debian computer, is it not? |
21:45.57 | yrmate | i am not a video guy meself |
21:46.11 | Leeds | yrmate: as I said - if you're just going to communicate across a private (i.e. residential) internet link, it's okay - if you're going to do anything local, it's horrible |
21:46.16 | rdancer | yrmate: depends on what the access point is using |
21:46.48 | rdancer | yrmate: if your mate has 802.11g, they won't like your eating much more spectrum for a given unit of effective bandwidth |
21:47.21 | Leeds | yrmate: a USB 802.11g adapter which *should* work with Linux is under ?30 - I really can't see the point in saving a few quid for the sake of using years'-old technology which you'll be stuck with |
21:47.36 | yrmate | but there are some open access point you can, erm, access ;) |
21:47.42 | Leeds | I know because I bought one yesterday - I bought it because it's supported on Mac OS, but the vendor also has free drivers for Linux |
21:47.51 | rdancer | Leeds: which one? |
21:48.01 | Leeds | asus wl-167G |
21:48.04 | rdancer | hm |
21:48.09 | rdancer | Leeds: does it work? |
21:48.10 | yrmate | under 30 quid? you mean pcmcia? |
21:48.17 | rdancer | yrmate: usb |
21:48.17 | Leeds | yrmate: I said USB |
21:48.22 | yrmate | sorry |
21:48.31 | yrmate | what about pcmcia? |
21:48.35 | Leeds | rdancer: it seems to, with the Mac, yes :-) it's not 100% stable... but the free driver is under active development |
21:48.54 | Leeds | yrmate: I've not bought a pcmcia 802.11 card in years... so I can't give specific advice |
21:49.02 | rdancer | Leeds: exactly what i don't want, after 2 years with not-quite-stable wifi |
21:49.40 | rdancer | i think i'll go with the netgate thingy |
21:49.47 | Leeds | rdancer: I can't comment on the Linux drivers because I've not used them - the only problem on the mac is that if the machine goes to sleep, it doesn't always work when it comes back up |
21:49.57 | rdancer | the usd exchange rate makes the decision quite easy 8-) |
21:50.15 | rdancer | Leeds: exactly what i don't want |
21:50.18 | Leeds | rdancer: http://www.bb-zone.com/misc/rt2500/ |
21:50.26 | Leeds | how the fuck do you know? are you planning to use it with a mac? |
21:50.41 | rdancer | Leeds: why not? |
21:50.52 | Leeds | rdancer: do you *have* a MacOS machine? |
21:50.57 | rdancer | Leeds: not *yet* |
21:51.06 | Leeds | are you asking about Linux? |
21:51.13 | rdancer | not in particular |
21:51.21 | yrmate | Leeds, my laptop has 2 usb ports (1.1) will the Asus WL-167G perform ok? |
21:51.25 | Leeds | all current Macs have very stable native support from Apple - that is the easy answer |
21:51.36 | *** part/#gllug stephanb (~stef@dsl-80-44-197-187.access.as9105.com) |
21:51.40 | Leeds | yrmate: I have no idea about your specific hardware setup, sorry |
21:51.52 | yrmate | what do you mean? |
21:51.53 | rdancer | bsd's foretaste is much sweater than linux ever was |
21:52.09 | Leeds | rdancer: frankly, if you're that worried, just use commercial software with commercial driver support |
21:52.23 | rdancer | Leeds: heh, a gooood one ;-) |
21:52.32 | rdancer | mmm, pasting across heads does not work 8-( |
21:52.42 | rdancer | s/linux ever was/debian ever was/ |
21:52.56 | Leeds | yrmate: I can only tell you that it works on my mac, with one particular driver, except that it doesn't like it when the machine sleeps - I can't tell you it'll work with Linux, because I've not tried it, and I can't tell you it'll work on your laptop because I don't have it |
21:53.16 | yrmate | ok |
21:53.35 | Leeds | rdancer: and you're saying bsd tastes more like a piece of clothing than debian |
21:53.47 | Leeds | yrmate: nothing personal - I've had a shitty week, month, year, etc.... |
21:54.16 | rdancer | Leeds: it's a piece of cake. |
21:54.28 | Leeds | rdancer: so it's not a piece of clothing? |
21:54.42 | Leeds | rdancer: http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page |
21:54.43 | rdancer | Leeds: i don't think i know what you mean by p.o.c.? |
21:54.53 | Leeds | a sweater |
21:55.44 | yrmate | http://www.planetmicro.co.uk/product_info.asp?stockcode=M004001 mentions that asus wl-167G is supported by redhat 7,1! |
21:55.56 | Leeds | yrmate: yes |
21:56.24 | rdancer | i had 2 machines, one netbsd and one openbsd up and running in less than 48 hours |
21:57.16 | rdancer | the new sarge install took much longer in terms of configuration, and it simply didn't work on sparc. and i still don't have smtpd configured |
21:57.44 | Leeds | blah blah Debian sucks blah blah SPARC suck blah blah |
21:57.47 | rdancer | plus the lies about security support -- i'm really very bitter about this |
21:57.54 | rdancer | sparc rocks |
21:58.07 | rdancer | debian sucks |
21:58.22 | Leeds | sparc sucks |
21:58.25 | Leeds | sun sucks |
21:58.25 | rdancer | ? |
21:58.27 | Leeds | solaris sucks |
21:58.28 | rdancer | ah |
21:58.29 | Leeds | java sucks |
21:58.32 | rdancer | yes |
21:58.38 | rdancer | i absolutely agree |
21:58.43 | Leeds | shwartz sucks donkey penises |
21:59.37 | BobtheAvenger | well i'll let you calm down |
21:59.38 | rdancer | in a twist of masochism, i named one of the new machines `london' |
21:59.43 | rdancer | london sucks |
21:59.55 | Leeds | actually, solari doesn't suck - when they've finished s10, it'll be quite good... might take a few years... solaris engineering sucks |
22:00.05 | Leeds | oops, looks like I upset bob :-) |
22:00.11 | rdancer | oh |
22:00.15 | rdancer | bob sucks? |
22:00.21 | yrmate | london is not that bad but then again maybe because i am a londoner |
22:00.34 | Leeds | yrmate: you love London town? |
22:01.10 | yrmate | r u from string a beads? |
22:01.25 | Leeds | um... possibly :-) |
22:01.35 | rdancer | and since tfl sucks hard and a trip from here to greenford which would take 30mins by bike takes 70 mins by bus, i have to go to bed Real Soon |
22:03.13 | Leeds | rdancer: get a bike... |
22:03.23 | rdancer | Leeds: wrt rt2x00, i simply like things that *work*, not interesting projects trying to make something useful out of a source tree that doesn't really work except under a special constellation of stars, while standing on your left foot, murmuring specialized incantations... |
22:03.33 | rdancer | Leeds: artritis... |
22:03.55 | Leeds | rdancer: then, frankly, as I said - get a mac - it just works |
22:04.24 | rdancer | Leeds: i'm going to |
22:05.14 | rdancer | i like things like these ss5 |
22:05.43 | rdancer | something that after 10 years of service Just Works (ok, apart from that one dead memory module) |
22:06.03 | rdancer | with that said, nn |
22:06.11 | Leeds | it did strike me today that I have 2 general-purpose PCs and one special-purpose, and 2 general-purpose PowerPCs and one special-purpose |
22:06.13 | Leeds | g'night |
22:08.08 | *** join/#gllug BobtheAvenger (Bob@dial81-131-132-44.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
22:08.13 | BobtheAvenger | calm yet? |
22:08.56 | Leeds | no more so than I was :-) |
22:09.32 | BobtheAvenger | well thayts useful |
22:11.04 | Leeds | or to put it another way - I've been pretty calm for days now, and you need to work on your sense of dark humour :-) |
22:11.54 | BobtheAvenger | then go spit of a bridge |
22:12.06 | Leeds | I beg your pardon? |
22:12.21 | BobtheAvenger | spit at cars from a bridge |
22:12.40 | Leeds | why on earth would I want to do that? |
22:12.56 | BobtheAvenger | 2 calm down |
22:13.16 | Leeds | um... that's a strange way of calming down |
22:13.26 | BobtheAvenger | it beats hittin walls |
22:14.13 | Leeds | I tend to go for kicking in cardboard in those sorts of situations... although a mate of mine did put his hand through a window once while on the phone |
22:14.26 | BobtheAvenger | heh |
22:14.34 | Leeds | reasonably calmly, I understand :-) |
22:14.51 | BobtheAvenger | last time i got angry and hit a wall i couldnt move my little finger for days |
22:15.10 | Leeds | he then went down to the bomb shelter, got the emergency medical supplies, bandanged himself up, and slept down there |
22:15.26 | BobtheAvenger | sounds sencible |
22:15.43 | Leeds | yes, as I said... calm :-) |
22:15.53 | BobtheAvenger | yep |
22:16.35 | Leeds | anyway, I used to hit people, not walls, when I was around your age |
22:17.11 | BobtheAvenger | i dont cos if when i hit a wall i hurt myself thats bad, i could really hurt a person |
22:18.36 | Leeds | if you care, you're not doing it right |
22:19.06 | BobtheAvenger | i didnt care then but i cared for the next week when i couldn't move it |
22:19.22 | Leeds | I meant about the person |
22:20.15 | BobtheAvenger | if there is a person about who i really dislike i would do more than hit them given the chance |
22:20.55 | Leeds | ah, now, see, I wouldn't |
22:21.23 | Leeds | well, I wouldn't hit them at all now |
22:21.42 | Leeds | the last time I threatened to hit anyone and meant it was a few years ago, and it was jonmasters |
22:21.48 | BobtheAvenger | its had to provoke me but when i am people run |
22:22.23 | Leeds | I used to be like that, but I had to deal with it before I got myself into serious trouble |
22:22.37 | BobtheAvenger | yer thats why i hit walls |
22:23.14 | Leeds | I just forced my temper under control |
22:23.26 | BobtheAvenger | i'm usually calm |
22:23.36 | Leeds | the worst I'm likely to do now is some colourful swearing on IRC :-) |
22:23.40 | BobtheAvenger | some people find it hard to believe that i shout |
22:24.28 | BobtheAvenger | mainly cos i keep my temper under control |
22:24.52 | BobtheAvenger | calm is better |
22:25.18 | Leeds | my other thing is that I used to be very assertive, even agressive, in conversations/discussions/debates - forced myself into control of the conversation - I consciously try to avoid that now |
22:25.34 | Eeyore | my brother damaged his hand punching a wall |
22:25.40 | Eeyore | still can't play tennis properly |
22:25.47 | Leeds | oo-er |
22:25.54 | BobtheAvenger | ouch |
22:26.15 | BobtheAvenger | stress balls are good bouncey balls |
22:27.24 | BobtheAvenger | did anyone go to the extreme sports thing at earls court this weekend? |
22:29.03 | Leeds | nope |
22:29.14 | BobtheAvenger | it was good |
22:29.58 | BobtheAvenger | i jumped off a balconey |
22:30.35 | Leeds | fun |
22:30.36 | BobtheAvenger | yer |
22:31.18 | BobtheAvenger | thats something to confuse the teachers tomorow |
22:31.35 | Leeds | death slide? abseiling? |
22:32.02 | BobtheAvenger | there was absailing but i had to go before i got a chance to do it |
22:32.21 | BobtheAvenger | there was a climbing machine |
22:32.25 | Leeds | I've abseiled down cliffs to the dead sea - much fun :-) |
22:33.06 | Eeyore | man i'd have loved to do that kind of stuff |
22:33.31 | BobtheAvenger | i got stuck absailing once |
22:33.45 | Leeds | that's the only time I've done it... |
22:34.22 | Leeds | I've water-skiied on an artificial lake near Tel Aviv, and on the Red Sea... I've driven quad bikes in the desert... |
22:34.25 | BobtheAvenger | angel jumps are fun |
22:34.41 | Leeds | ibot change 13.58 cad to gbp |
22:34.43 | Leeds | angel jumps? |
22:34.48 | BobtheAvenger | erm |
22:35.14 | Leeds | exchange rate mechanism? |
22:35.15 | BobtheAvenger | imagine you about to absail, with all that equipment |
22:35.46 | BobtheAvenger | you let out a certail amount of rope through |
22:36.23 | BobtheAvenger | then you jump and hope there enough distance between you and the ground when the rope tightens to stop you |
22:36.43 | BobtheAvenger | kinda like a bungee jump |
22:37.03 | Leeds | um... that doesn't sound like fun... :-) sounds like brown-trousers time |
22:37.15 | BobtheAvenger | its fun |
22:37.58 | Leeds | okay... |
22:38.20 | BobtheAvenger | its like jumping of a balconey, adrenaline |
22:38.52 | BobtheAvenger | anyway |
22:39.02 | BobtheAvenger | it got school, so peace |
22:39.03 | Leeds | so the whole balconey-jumping thing... that was onto a mat or something? |
22:39.17 | BobtheAvenger | yer a mat |
22:39.23 | Leeds | cool |
22:39.24 | Leeds | g'night |
22:45.49 | JAV | s/seen/saw |
22:49.02 | Leeds | hmm... good? |
22:52.20 | Leeds | ibot change 39.98 cad to gbp |
23:02.04 | highbury | Leeds: it might actually be me paying for it. I'm bidding to do some work at a site which has some mac's and I would like to check whether *my* software will work. I'll be doing the testing, I may on the basis of that get paid, or not, if the job falls thru, but I'd like to be more au fait with the macOS in case the job (2 weeks well paid work) comes off. |
23:02.37 | Leeds | highbury: ah, wel... |
23:03.33 | highbury | it might also help me decide whether its worth spending my own money on a Mac |
23:03.42 | Leeds | there's no particular reason why you couldn't borrow it while I'm away, assuming I'm not going to take it with me :-) |
23:03.53 | rhowe | If you're very very quick, Leeds might be able to get you a discount on a new mac |
23:04.16 | highbury | hmmmm, that would be very cool leeds |
23:04.46 | highbury | I can't justify buying one at the moment, unless i know I'm going to get the contract |
23:05.41 | rhowe | btw, as of soon, Gnomemeeting CVS has support for SIP audio calls |
23:05.54 | Leeds | sweet |
23:05.56 | rhowe | (as well as H323) |
23:06.18 | rhowe | It doesn't do call hold or transfer yet, but should do call forwarding |
23:07.20 | *** part/#gllug highbury (~steve@81-1-69-130.homechoice.co.uk) |
23:07.41 | *** join/#gllug highbury (~steve@81-1-69-130.homechoice.co.uk) |
23:08.21 | rhowe | soon being possibly right now, but almost certainly before FOSDEM |
23:08.35 | rhowe | I haven't bothered apt'ing gnome-dev to check :) |
23:08.36 | Leeds | heh |
23:08.52 | highbury | Leeds: if your serious I'll catch up with you before you head off |
23:08.54 | Leeds | that's the second project I've now heard of using FOSDEM as a deadline... |
23:09.22 | rhowe | Well considering the GM author's organising FOSDEM.. :) |
23:09.38 | Leeds | highbury: do that... I'm at FOSDEM next week, and going to Israel on the afternoon of the 5th, but I'm not at work after Tuesday, because they won't let me in... |
23:10.01 | Leeds | rhowe: yes, I know - his bird tends to distract people from the technical talks... :-) |
23:10.50 | highbury | Leeds: so I'll write on my calendar, that I should come visit you on the 4th? |
23:11.04 | Leeds | highbury: sounds sensible |
23:11.21 | highbury | great! thanks Leeds! |
23:12.18 | highbury | hmm, I wonder whether it'll work fine with my kvm switch :-) |
23:12.36 | Leeds | usb-only, obviously |
23:13.26 | highbury | ahhh |
23:14.01 | Leeds | I've got keyboard and mouse... :-) |
23:15.03 | highbury | we'll negotiate on the day. anyways gotta go crash out now, just had two days of intensive family bonding |
23:15.23 | highbury | nn filks |
23:15.27 | Leeds | sure... |
23:15.29 | Leeds | g'night |
23:19.42 | George | if I send an SMS and request status notification |
23:19.47 | George | and it says the SMS wasn't delivered |
23:19.53 | George | will I still get charged? |
23:27.06 | JAV | of course |
23:28.45 | George | grr |
23:28.47 | George | sucks |
23:28.55 | George | will it keep trying to send the message? |
23:29.15 | JAV | as soon as the receptor turns on his mobile |
23:29.36 | JAV | you can set that option on your mobile |
23:29.42 | George | no |
23:29.46 | JAV | 1 day, 1 week,... |
23:29.50 | George | the phone is on... |
23:29.59 | George | and in reception |
23:30.08 | George | but status notification says that the message delivery failed |
23:30.11 | George | which i've never had before |
23:30.17 | George | even when sending to phone that's been switched off |
23:31.33 | JAV | you mean in the sms they send you back? |
23:31.41 | George | I have no idea |
23:31.46 | JAV | or instantly |
23:31.49 | George | my phone just says "message failed to be delivered" |
23:31.54 | George | a few seconds after I send it |
23:32.38 | JAV | you'll be charged for sure :D |
23:32.45 | George | grumble |