| 02:03.44 | gregj | http://funroll-loops.org/gentoo.jpg |
| 02:13.42 | *** join/#gllug rozallin (~rozallin@81-178-216-114.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 02:14.04 | rozallin | Hello. |
| 02:22.35 | evangineer | what you doing up at this time< rozallin? |
| 02:23.28 | rozallin | I can't sleep. You? |
| 02:23.46 | evangineer | I'm a member of Cory's Eastern Standard Tribe! ;-) |
| 02:24.19 | evangineer | in other words, I have a badly messed up sleep-wake cycle |
| 02:28.34 | rozallin | What is the traffic like here, during the day? |
| 02:28.55 | evangineer | it's pretty busy during the day |
| 02:29.26 | rozallin | Oooh, interesting. |
| 02:32.51 | evangineer | I want to build what I call a Community Engine for empowering community groups. |
| 02:34.09 | rozallin | What would the engine do, exactly? |
| 02:34.22 | evangineer | businesses and consumers are pretty well catered for, but what about charities, social enterprises and grassroots community groups. |
| 02:35.06 | evangineer | it would help the groups communicate and organise themselves more effectively. |
| 02:37.21 | rozallin | Ah. Well I wish you the best of luck. It sounds like a very worthwhile project. :) |
| 02:37.40 | evangineer | rozallin, I presume you received the linux meetup invite I sent out for the next gllug meeting? |
| 02:38.55 | rozallin | Yes I did. |
| 02:39.05 | evangineer | cool |
| 02:39.58 | rozallin | I'm not sure if I'll be able to attend yet as I'm in the process of looking for a job and it might involve Saturday work. :/ |
| 02:40.27 | evangineer | fair enough, that makes you a "maybe" then! ;-) |
| 02:41.29 | rozallin | A definite maybe :) |
| 02:44.28 | rozallin | I haven't really looked deeply into Python, I'm afraid. |
| 02:45.33 | evangineer | I've been hacking some python recently, it's fun and makes a great deal of sense. |
| 02:47.55 | rozallin | I'll give it a try sometime. |
| 02:56.22 | rozallin | Well I'll pop round here again during the day and meet a few other people I think; beginning to nod off with laptop still on my lap. :) |
| 02:56.49 | evangineer | nn rozallin |
| 02:56.59 | rozallin | Night night. Take care. |
| 02:57.05 | *** part/#gllug rozallin (~rozallin@81-178-216-114.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 07:21.02 | *** join/#gllug SlayerXP (~Mart@burningchrome.demon.co.uk) |
| 07:50.02 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@host-212-158-207-148.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 07:56.16 | Leeds | morning all |
| 07:57.48 | Leeds | and, woo, snow |
| 07:58.14 | SlayerXP | just a light dusting here |
| 07:58.17 | SlayerXP | I feel cheated |
| 07:58.58 | Leeds | it's not heavy, but it's real and settled |
| 08:04.26 | SlayerXP | http://photos.hinterlands.org/p12072104.html |
| 08:31.01 | *** join/#gllug eye69 (magnus@ipv6.upcore.net) |
| 08:31.16 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@host-212-158-207-148.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 09:11.02 | *** join/#gllug Cope (cope@spc1-stok3-3-0-cust38.bagu.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 09:11.05 | Cope | morning |
| 09:11.18 | Leeds | hi |
| 09:11.57 | Cope | ah! Leeds! Just who I wanted! |
| 09:12.15 | SlayerXP | Leeds: he wants you |
| 09:12.49 | Leeds | Cope: what can I do for you, old chap? :-) |
| 09:13.02 | Cope | For date manipulation in Python which modules have you used? I thought one used time and datetime but I appear not to have datetime in this version - has it chanegd? |
| 09:13.21 | Leeds | which version are you using? |
| 09:13.38 | Cope | right now - 2.2.3 |
| 09:13.47 | Leeds | there are four interesting modules, off the top of my mind - time, datetime, calendar, and locale |
| 09:13.58 | Cope | >>> import datetime |
| 09:13.58 | Cope | Traceback (most recent call last): |
| 09:13.58 | Cope | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:13.59 | Cope | ImportError: No module named datetime |
| 09:14.42 | Leeds | yeah, it's quite possible that you need to be vaguely current for that to work - I know, I know, you don't get to choose what versions you use |
| 09:14.58 | Leeds | datetime is new in 2.3 |
| 09:15.00 | Cope | I think datetime my be 2.3 |
| 09:15.01 | Cope | yes |
| 09:15.45 | Cope | I can actually upgrade python in this case, so I will. |
| 09:15.52 | Leeds | one thing to always always remember about python: almost all of the core library is written in python - so if you need it, it should be relatively easy to pull out and possibly backport parts or all of datetime to 2.2 - assuming you can get away with having that as part of your script |
| 09:16.06 | Cope | oh that's a good idea |
| 09:16.19 | Leeds | it's possible it's using newer language features, hence some backporting or pruning may be needed... |
| 09:17.07 | highbury | http://gllug.org.uk/meeting-20050312.html updated |
| 09:17.08 | Leeds | but particularly if you only need a small subset of the module, as is quite possible, that may be the easiest thing to do |
| 09:18.46 | Cope | which holy land? |
| 09:19.04 | Cope | there are quite a few lands whose residents consider it to be holy! |
| 09:19.57 | highbury | topmost page also updated |
| 09:20.04 | Leeds | there's only one place which is often called the Holy Land in English |
| 09:20.40 | *** join/#gllug mikejw (1001@81-178-102-12.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 09:20.47 | Leeds | morning mikejw |
| 09:21.03 | mikejw | morning all :D |
| 09:21.04 | Leeds | argh, the goodbye mails are coming in :-( |
| 09:21.21 | mikejw | :S |
| 09:21.44 | Leeds | Cope: and depending on what you're trying to do, the fact that locale knows things like month and day names in English or other languages is cute |
| 09:22.17 | Cope | yeah I've seen that in action - its very cool. |
| 09:26.48 | *** join/#gllug morsing (~morsing@80.46.110.1) |
| 09:26.59 | Leeds | morning morsing |
| 09:31.12 | Leeds | my gecko appears to be broken :-( |
| 09:33.33 | morsing | Morning Leeds |
| 09:33.36 | morsing | Snow? |
| 09:35.44 | Leeds | yes! |
| 09:35.51 | morsing | 1"? |
| 09:35.59 | mikejw | kewel |
| 09:36.24 | Leeds | morsing: that's a very personal and insulting question |
| 09:36.34 | mikejw | :) |
| 09:37.11 | JAV | morning! |
| 09:38.17 | morsing | I've got 0.5" |
| 09:41.44 | mikejw | I've got 0" :S |
| 09:42.06 | mikejw | and a few puddles |
| 09:46.54 | morsing | Can a SMB mount from Linux to Linux see proper file permissions? |
| 09:52.50 | morsing | Sorry? |
| 09:55.36 | Leeds | yeah, it's melting rapidly here too :-( |
| 10:12.38 | *** join/#gllug itsbruce (~brichards@router-office.fotango.com) |
| 10:19.20 | Cope | morning bruce |
| 10:32.56 | itsbruce | lo |
| 10:35.01 | Leeds | so, a couple of seconds after starting up, my firefox hangs |
| 10:37.54 | SlayerXP | uses someone else's |
| 10:39.26 | Leeds | very unhelpful, thank you |
| 10:41.52 | SlayerXP | IWFM[tm] |
| 10:42.09 | itsbruce | Given that you're online, I suppose it's not a DNS issue. Tried launching it at a specific url? |
| 10:44.11 | wethrin | moin |
| 10:44.13 | Leeds | it's just the setup - removing ~/.mozilla and letting it be recreated makes it work - but loses me all my configuration |
| 10:46.58 | itsbruce | Leeds: strace no help? lsof or fuser might even do, since it would show you the files open at the time |
| 10:48.11 | Leeds | haven't tried it, and stracing firefox sounds like a nightmare... |
| 10:48.25 | Leeds | anyway, no time now - got to go to the office, hand in badge, etc. |
| 10:48.47 | Leeds | collect spare TV, router and so on sitting under my desk |
| 10:49.07 | gregj | is "2-days working seminar" correct in English ? |
| 10:49.32 | Leeds | gregj: I'd say "2-day" |
| 10:49.37 | wethrin | Me too |
| 10:49.54 | gregj | but working seminar sounds ok ? |
| 10:49.59 | gregj | wethrin: robocze seminarium |
| 10:50.21 | Tarragon | "Two day beer-fest" is usually more accurate |
| 10:51.04 | *** join/#gllug pdr (~pdr@213.86.35.150) |
| 10:51.06 | Leeds | Tarragon: beer fest today? woohoo! :-) |
| 10:51.24 | pdr | someone say beer? |
| 10:51.29 | pdr | ibot pdr |
| 10:51.30 | ibot | from memory, pdr is not trustworthy when it comes to beer, or the physicians desk reference |
| 10:51.32 | Tarragon | Congrats. Last day in Sun? |
| 10:51.53 | Leeds | Tarragon: sort of - last day at the office, on the network and so on... last day of employment is 16/4 |
| 10:58.01 | wethrin | gregj: Working thingy sounds fine |
| 10:58.04 | wethrin | beer! |
| 10:58.10 | wethrin | Hi Tarragon |
| 11:02.01 | Tarragon | Hi wethrin |
| 11:02.22 | wethrin | How's life? |
| 11:03.19 | pdr | Tarragon! |
| 11:03.39 | murb | moin |
| 11:05.09 | wethrin | murb! pdr! |
| 11:07.51 | Tarragon | Life OK. Just about to go out for a boozy lunch with two potential clients as soon as their taxi arrives. |
| 11:08.01 | wethrin | Mmm. Boozy lunch. |
| 11:08.09 | wethrin | You're not FOSDEMming this year, are you? |
| 11:09.31 | Tarragon | Hopefully I am in France at the same time. Flights on Friday are too pricey to get to Brussels. Easy to go from Brussels on a Friday but not get there |
| 11:09.40 | murb | I want to FOSDEM... |
| 11:11.19 | murb | i can only find a fare for 143 euro :( |
| 11:11.30 | murb | for one person. |
| 11:14.33 | wethrin | Eek |
| 11:14.52 | wethrin | Although that's about how much I paid for trains |
| 11:14.58 | wethrin | Actually, more than that |
| 11:15.01 | wethrin | About £145 |
| 11:15.31 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~rc112576@fluorine.eu.sun.com) |
| 11:17.02 | murb | wethrin: sterling or euro? |
| 11:17.11 | murb | Leeds: happy last day! |
| 11:17.19 | mozrat | Good morning |
| 11:17.46 | wethrin | murb: Sterling |
| 11:17.56 | murb | wethrin: oh the durham bit? |
| 11:17.59 | wethrin | Although I am coming from Up North |
| 11:18.00 | wethrin | Yeah |
| 11:18.04 | wethrin | £100 for E* |
| 11:18.06 | murb | I should make an effort. |
| 11:18.11 | wethrin | Yes, you should |
| 11:18.23 | wethrin | Then you can drink beer with us! |
| 11:18.31 | murb | problem is how pissed off stefanie should be if i leave her in Wi* |
| 11:18.39 | wethrin | Bring her along? |
| 11:18.52 | murb | I already had to do that the week before last because i had a client in Barvaria. |
| 11:19.12 | murb | wethrin: I wanted to, but that makes it very expensive as i must then find a proper hotel. |
| 11:19.27 | murb | before i found a train for 100euroish for two people return. |
| 11:20.08 | wethrin | What's wrong with roughing it in a YHA? :) |
| 11:20.28 | wethrin | Anyway. Time for food! |
| 11:20.35 | wethrin | I mean coffee |
| 11:20.36 | wethrin | Gah |
| 11:20.46 | wethrin | biab |
| 11:37.27 | *** join/#gllug mz2 (~mz@81.1.81.59) |
| 11:42.35 | *** join/#gllug murb (~murble@debian.home.boughton.org.uk) |
| 11:46.58 | morsing | How much disk space do you normally lose with RAID5? |
| 11:47.05 | mozrat | n amount |
| 11:47.09 | mozrat | where n is one disk |
| 11:47.40 | morsing | IBM is selling us a system where we lose 1/5 of one disk in total |
| 11:47.47 | morsing | Don't know how it works |
| 11:48.05 | mozrat | black magic... must be |
| 11:48.18 | morsing | It's IBM magic... They are good |
| 11:51.43 | SlayerXP | more snow in e17 |
| 11:52.18 | SlayerXP | people get raid wrong |
| 11:52.35 | SlayerXP | they buy 3 of the biggest disks they can find then wonder why the performance sucks |
| 11:55.25 | morsing | Some OA guy here has convinced someone to buy a server with a raid card instead of using software mirroring |
| 11:55.44 | morsing | Can you document it's slower? He's prposed a silly setup! |
| 11:56.36 | murb | morsing: i can't speak for performance, but using hardware raid certainly makes data recovery harder. |
| 11:57.00 | *** join/#gllug floo (~gary@host-84-9-71-174.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 11:57.26 | floo | anyone around |
| 11:57.29 | SlayerXP | floo: no |
| 11:57.30 | pdr | with raid, a usual setup is 5 disks where 1 of the 5 is lost through redundancy |
| 11:57.37 | floo | right |
| 11:57.39 | morsing | floo: I'm not here |
| 11:57.44 | pdr | me either |
| 11:58.01 | floo | my god! my unpopularity is spreading to new heights |
| 11:58.15 | SlayerXP | pdr: it's N disks, with a minimum of 3, and you get size*(N-1) amounts of space |
| 11:58.33 | SlayerXP | i'm made software raid partitions of 30-odd disks before |
| 11:59.11 | morsing | He wants 4x146GB disks with 1/5 of one for the parity meaning 555GB data space |
| 11:59.32 | morsing | floo: Why not? |
| 11:59.38 | pdr | yeah, but then 5 is a nice number since more than that and you run the risk of two disks failing |
| 11:59.40 | SlayerXP | morsing: that's dumb |
| 11:59.56 | pdr | s/run the risk/run a higher risk/ |
| 12:00.04 | morsing | And the array will be split between two servers presented as two disks on each server or 4 physical disks in total |
| 12:00.44 | SlayerXP | pdr: the chance of any given disk failing is the same regardless of the number of disks |
| 12:00.55 | pdr | SlayerXP: indeed |
| 12:01.03 | SlayerXP | and that's what you have hot spares for, anyway |
| 12:01.20 | floo | I have some family stuff that is taking up this weekend |
| 12:02.59 | pdr | SlayerXP: so if the chance of a disk failing today is 1/1000, the chance of two disks failing in a 5-disk array is 20/1000000 but in a 30-disk array is about 900/1000000 |
| 12:03.23 | SlayerXP | err no |
| 12:03.26 | SlayerXP | it's 1/1000 |
| 12:03.39 | floo | gotta go now... work calls, see you soon |
| 12:03.53 | pdr | SlayerXP: eh? |
| 12:03.59 | SlayerXP | err 1 in 1,000,000 even |
| 12:04.06 | murb | are the chance of each disc failing indepedant? |
| 12:04.17 | murb | if they are from the same batch with the same workload? |
| 12:04.18 | pdr | SlayerXP: no, it's 30/1000 * 29/1000 |
| 12:04.26 | pdr | murb: well, no |
| 12:04.41 | SlayerXP | i don't recall enough statmath |
| 12:04.45 | pdr | murb: indeed, it's actually much worse as the array gets bigger |
| 12:04.53 | SlayerXP | as I say, you have sufficient hot spares |
| 12:05.18 | pdr | well, relying on hot spares actually pushes the figures even more |
| 12:05.25 | *** join/#gllug floo (~gary@host-84-9-71-174.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 12:06.08 | pdr | you end up with (in a 5+1 array) (6*5*4)/10^9 compared with (31*30*29)/10^9 which is a big difference |
| 12:06.21 | wethrin | wibble |
| 12:06.30 | pdr | alright wethrin? |
| 12:07.01 | wethrin | Yeah. Just had tea |
| 12:07.14 | murb | i should make same more tea. |
| 12:07.26 | morsing | Can anyone say for sure that it's impossible to use just 1/5 of a disk for parity for the entire array? |
| 12:07.50 | pdr | morsing: no |
| 12:08.06 | morsing | No, you're not sure? |
| 12:08.09 | pdr | morsing: as in, you can't, at least not normally |
| 12:08.13 | wethrin | The way the parity is worked out requires an entire disk-worth |
| 12:10.29 | pdr | as SlayerXP says, you need N+1 disks for RAID5 with 1 disk as parity (the parity is actually shared between the disks of the array for efficiency - it's a long story). |
| 12:11.50 | SlayerXP | data is written in predefined chunk sizes on each disk sequentially |
| 12:11.58 | SlayerXP | so for five disks you get: |
| 12:12.01 | SlayerXP | 0 1 2 3 4 |
| 12:12.05 | SlayerXP | D D P D D |
| 12:12.09 | SlayerXP | D D D P |
| 12:12.11 | SlayerXP | D |
| 12:12.18 | pdr | almost all raid controllers will also let you have a "hot spare" that will take over a dud one and hopefully alert you |
| 12:12.20 | wethrin | pdr: http://www.vinumvm.org/vinum/problems.html |
| 12:12.24 | wethrin | Gives a resonable overview |
| 12:12.26 | SlayerXP | where D=data and P=parity |
| 12:12.40 | pdr | yup |
| 12:13.02 | morsing | I know all this but IBM says *their* array only uses %20 of one disk for the parity bits |
| 12:13.17 | SlayerXP | then they're in league with the evil one |
| 12:13.30 | SlayerXP | though if DJB has managed to do that, I'm impressed. |
| 12:13.31 | wethrin | Also, http://www.vinumvm.org/vinum/The-big-picture.html gives some tidbits about all the RAID systems, including 2,3 and 4 |
| 12:15.09 | pdr | morsing: they could be doing something tricky, but it's *not* RAID |
| 12:16.07 | wethrin | It is, if it's still a redundant array :) |
| 12:16.58 | pdr | wethrin: hmm.. ok then it's not RAID1,2,4 or 5. |
| 12:17.06 | pdr | :-) |
| 12:17.12 | wethrin | Indeed |
| 12:17.19 | pdr | seems to be snowing again |
| 12:17.34 | wethrin | I'm in a cleanroom! |
| 12:18.33 | murb | wethrin: they let anyone in now days? |
| 12:18.44 | *** join/#gllug irvined_ (~irvined@adsl-239-121.as15758.net) |
| 12:19.46 | morsing | ibot DJB |
| 12:19.47 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, djb is an arrogant jerk, or Daniel J. Bernstein, author of qmail, djbdns, etc., or at http://cr.yp.to/djb.html, or a UNIX coding and mathematics genius, or an ego-maniac. StevenK's bitch See "wanker". |
| 12:21.05 | wethrin | murb: Yes, if they're appropriately attired |
| 12:21.13 | wethrin | ibot wnaker |
| 12:21.16 | morsing | ibot murb |
| 12:21.17 | ibot | methinks murb is bored, or not shiny, or faster than google |
| 12:21.17 | wethrin | ibot wanker |
| 12:21.18 | ibot | hmm... wanker is giving the palm pilot a flight, massaging Kojak's head. Fuck, someone pass me the tissues. |
| 12:24.10 | morsing | ibot IBM |
| 12:24.11 | ibot | hmm... ibm is International Business Machines - a very spiffy company - who happens to make AIX, OS/400, OS/2, and other cool operating systems, not to mention some of the most superior hardware on the market.. I Blame Microsoft. I Buy Macintosh |
| 12:29.20 | morsing | ibot microsoft |
| 12:30.27 | ibot | it has been said that microsoft is Malfunction Inadequate Cruddy Reckless Operating System Originally For Trash |
| 12:30.27 | wethrin | morsing: bored? |
| 12:30.27 | morsing | wethrin: No - tried to piece and email together about not using hardware RAID |
| 12:30.27 | morsing | s/tried/trying/ |
| 12:30.27 | wethrin | Hardware RAID is good if done properly |
| 12:30.27 | morsing | No |
| 12:30.27 | wethrin | Then the OS just sees the thing as a SCSI disk |
| 12:30.27 | wethrin | Why not? |
| 12:30.39 | wethrin | Sure, if the controller goes titsup, you're screwed |
| 12:30.56 | wethrin | But that happens less often |
| 12:31.02 | morsing | wethrin: It's even worse that two servers run off the same array |
| 12:31.18 | wethrin | Fibrechannel? |
| 12:31.21 | morsing | SCSI |
| 12:31.22 | wethrin | And NAS? |
| 12:31.26 | wethrin | Hrm |
| 12:31.48 | morsing | Micro partitioning and SHLPAR |
| 12:31.52 | wethrin | If two servers use the same array, then wouldn't hardware be better? |
| 12:32.22 | morsing | Why? If they could have theiur own disks instead and use software mirroring? |
| 12:33.31 | wethrin | You can't get a hardware RAID card? |
| 12:33.31 | morsing | Why not? |
| 12:33.31 | morsing | I think it comes with the box? |
| 12:33.59 | wethrin | Hrm. I'm getting some weird results with these transistors |
| 12:34.34 | wethrin | Quite a nice diode, but that's not helpful |
| 12:35.46 | morsing | What colour? |
| 12:36.08 | wethrin | Personally, I'd prefer to use *proper* hardware RAID if possible, but it's mostly not for me |
| 12:36.11 | wethrin | Colour? |
| 12:36.56 | morsing | You said it was nice |
| 12:37.05 | wethrin | Yes. The characteristics are nice |
| 12:37.11 | morsing | wethrin: What's "proper"? |
| 12:37.29 | morsing | wethrin: The one-way characteristics? |
| 12:37.35 | wethrin | Yes |
| 12:38.19 | wethrin | "proper" in that it's configured in its BIOS, and just appears as a single SCSI disk to the OS - there's no silly RAID control software for the OS |
| 12:42.52 | morsing | Like an ESS? |
| 12:44.06 | wethrin | ess? |
| 12:44.30 | morsing | Enterprise Storage System |
| 12:45.21 | wethrin | Maybe |
| 12:45.24 | wethrin | Get me one :) |
| 12:46.06 | morsing | Mmm... Buy one from IBM |
| 12:46.36 | wethrin | Err.....no |
| 12:51.40 | morsing | Mmm... IBM |
| 12:51.43 | morsing | ibot AIX |
| 12:52.00 | ibot | somebody said aix was the unix from the universe where Spock had a beard, or pronounced "aches", or more evil than HP-UX, or 'I can't believe it's not Unix'. Err, wait, it's IBM perverted bastard of Unix. |
| 12:52.09 | morsing | ibot AIX is the best Unix system around |
| 12:52.17 | ibot | ...but aix is already something else... |
| 12:52.18 | morsing | ibot AIX is also the best Unix system around |
| 12:52.19 | ibot | morsing: okay |
| 13:11.04 | Cope | ibot morsing is also living in a virtual universe where AIX resembles Unix. |
| 13:11.05 | ibot | okay, Cope |
| 13:11.10 | Cope | ibot morsing |
| 13:11.11 | ibot | hmm... morsing is a nice and very knowledgeable guy who often buys rounds of beer, or mozrat, or living in a virtual universe where AIX resembles Unix. |
| 13:12.11 | Cope | BT is shit. |
| 13:12.18 | wethrin | Yes |
| 13:12.32 | Cope | I have no sync on my adsl, and it won't even be looked at until thursdau. |
| 13:12.45 | wethrin | Hateful people |
| 13:12.48 | wethrin | Use Demon ;-) |
| 13:12.53 | Cope | Demon use BT. |
| 13:12.58 | wethrin | Oh right |
| 13:12.59 | Cope | Everyone uses BT. |
| 13:13.03 | wethrin | Heh |
| 13:13.06 | wethrin | It's snowing again |
| 13:13.34 | Cope | ie the service relies on BT lines and exchanges, and if they're fucked, the ISP is powerless, and without SLA. |
| 13:13.40 | wethrin | Cope: Want to come to a recording of The Now Show? I've got one ticket left, assuming they'll actually arrive |
| 13:13.44 | wethrin | 31st March |
| 13:14.06 | Cope | wethrin: is the now show that program on the radio that isn't actually very funny? |
| 13:14.24 | wethrin | No, it's one of the more amusing ones |
| 13:14.25 | wethrin | :) |
| 13:14.28 | wethrin | Punt & Dennis |
| 13:14.32 | Cope | oh right |
| 13:14.55 | Cope | yes, then I would like to come - let me check the date. |
| 13:15.04 | wethrin | Thursday, 31st March |
| 13:15.15 | Cope | sounds do-able. |
| 13:15.19 | wethrin | Excellent |
| 13:15.21 | Cope | that would be fun. |
| 13:15.34 | wethrin | Ought to be there early, so 7pm |
| 13:15.36 | wethrin | In Central London |
| 13:15.40 | Cope | ok |
| 13:15.44 | wethrin | That doable? |
| 13:15.47 | Cope | yeah |
| 13:16.11 | wethrin | Excellent |
| 13:16.28 | wethrin | Will you come for dinner the day after too? Excellent Thai food.... |
| 13:17.00 | wethrin | Birthday foodage :) |
| 13:33.15 | morsing | Does anuone know where I can get some AIX posters? |
| 13:34.00 | SlayerXP | morsing: echo "AIX" | lpr |
| 13:35.47 | Cope | wethrin: yes that would be ace |
| 13:35.56 | Cope | wethrin: count me in for that too |
| 13:36.07 | morsing | SlayerXP: You mean echo "AIX" | enq, right? |
| 13:39.43 | *** join/#gllug George_ (george@83.146.61.45) |
| 13:40.28 | SlayerXP | lpt works here |
| 13:40.32 | SlayerXP | lpr rather |
| 13:41.04 | SlayerXP | or does it... |
| 13:41.38 | SlayerXP | other side of the house |
| 13:42.24 | SlayerXP | yes, you're right |
| 13:42.50 | evangineer | hmm, snowing again |
| 13:43.07 | Cope | quite a lot, here. |
| 13:43.08 | evangineer | or is that sleet? |
| 13:43.25 | Cope | evangineer: thanks for your email - only just picked it up. |
| 13:43.30 | SlayerXP | so far I've had rain, sleet, hail, snow and bright sunshine in varying combinations and quantities |
| 13:43.30 | evangineer | nps |
| 13:43.37 | Cope | will take a look while I lunch |
| 13:43.43 | morsing | SlayerXP: What did it do? |
| 13:43.48 | evangineer | cool |
| 13:44.04 | SlayerXP | morsing: foo | lpr? nothing at all by the look of it |
| 13:44.24 | morsing | What about foo | enq? |
| 13:44.40 | evangineer | definitely snowing |
| 13:45.22 | morsing | Spinny? |
| 13:45.26 | morsing | Spiffy? |
| 13:45.34 | pdr | mmm... spiffy |
| 13:45.38 | Cope | spinny - local hostelry. |
| 13:46.08 | morsing | Cope: What are you wearing? |
| 13:46.08 | wethrin | Cope: Right. I shall bear that in mind |
| 13:46.23 | Cope | morsing: wanna cyber? |
| 13:46.29 | morsing | What?! |
| 13:47.12 | Cope | morsing: why do you want to know what I am wearing? |
| 13:47.42 | morsing | I'm bored |
| 13:48.42 | Cope | i feel ill and hungry |
| 13:48.43 | highbury | itsbruce: did you note the web page updates? [#gllugadmin] |
| 13:49.33 | SlayerXP | mute:~# echo "foo" | enq |
| 13:49.34 | SlayerXP | -bash: enq: command not found |
| 13:50.50 | mozrat | Awesome! |
| 13:50.56 | mozrat | ibot stop logging |
| 13:50.59 | ibot | ACTION leaps to his feet and stops logging |
| 13:51.17 | morsing | ibot undress |
| 13:51.18 | ibot | methinks undress is take me: _/\*/\_ |
| 13:51.28 | mozrat | heh |
| 13:51.40 | highbury | erghhh |
| 13:59.07 | evangineer | http://217.158.99.105 # bad cold fusion! Electoral commision site reveals its SQL queries. |
| 14:00.10 | evangineer | surely enough info for a SQL injection attack or something. |
| 14:04.29 | JAV | good afternoon |
| 14:04.50 | morsing | afternoon |
| 14:23.38 | *** join/#gllug Numz (~Numz@82-35-18-215.cable.ubr03.hari.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 14:48.47 | mozrat | hello Cope |
| 14:48.51 | Cope | SlayerXP: polish girl is wearing rather nice jeans today.... |
| 14:49.02 | SlayerXP | mmmmmm |
| 14:49.06 | Cope | hi mozrat |
| 14:50.25 | irvined_ | mwahaha! mailman is finally my beeyatch! |
| 14:51.24 | SlayerXP | you typed 'apt-get install mailman' ? |
| 14:55.41 | wethrin | :) |
| 15:00.21 | evangineer | hey Cope, had a good read at lunch? |
| 15:01.38 | irvined_ | SlayerXP, nah, mysqsl virtuald omains with exim, |
| 15:01.53 | irvined_ | so i wanted it to be as simple as new_mailman $domain |
| 15:02.11 | SlayerXP | don't use the "m" word here, please |
| 15:02.13 | irvined_ | so now its as simple as new_mailman $domain && some fiddling. |
| 15:02.35 | irvined_ | the emm word? |
| 15:03.02 | itsbruce | Mysql or mailman? |
| 15:03.09 | SlayerXP | the former |
| 15:03.12 | murb | or microsoft? |
| 15:03.37 | murb | Mssql |
| 15:04.13 | irvined_ | any reason why they are suddenly devil spawn? |
| 15:04.28 | murb | SlayerXP doesn't like it. |
| 15:05.09 | SlayerXP | irvined_: mysql has been a crock of steaming mammoth turds for quite some time |
| 15:06.18 | SlayerXP | i buy my doorstops from B&Q thanks |
| 15:06.20 | murb | wethrin: better yet, gentoo |
| 15:06.29 | itsbruce | We have a bunch of legacy applications using Mysql. It's painful. |
| 15:06.30 | wethrin | Good point |
| 15:06.43 | wethrin | SlayerXP: Which do you hate most out of Slackware and Gentoo? :) |
| 15:07.03 | SlayerXP | neither |
| 15:07.07 | SlayerXP | they're both pointless. |
| 15:07.34 | itsbruce | Don't have problems with either distro. Gentoo *users*, otoh... |
| 15:07.51 | murb | itsbruce: oh the ricer thing? |
| 15:08.50 | SlayerXP | not at all |
| 15:09.07 | SlayerXP | if other people want to waste their time, that's their problem |
| 15:10.36 | itsbruce | murb: or the Official Gentoo-Linux-Zealot translator-o-matic. Seen it in action for real on ucol often enough. |
| 15:14.46 | murb | I just get annoyed with people who have a problem and think the solution is to install A.N.Other Distribution. |
| 15:15.02 | murb | s/solution/only &/ |
| 15:16.26 | itsbruce | Newbies often learn new things when they switch distros and then assume that the old one didn't have the capability |
| 15:16.38 | itsbruce | When it did and they just didn't know. |
| 15:23.15 | irvined_ | indeed. |
| 15:23.55 | itsbruce | Also applies to mail clients, databases and the like |
| 15:35.51 | Cope | evangineer: Indeed |
| 15:36.49 | Cope | evangineer: point 5 - ...to download free of use; s/use/charge/ |
| 15:37.26 | Cope | evangineer: well written, persuasive and contagious - good luck! |
| 15:38.44 | evangineer | Cope, thanks for the review, amending now! |
| 15:41.07 | Leeds | going... |
| 15:41.32 | Leeds | I wish the bloody snow would just settle |
| 15:48.51 | wethrin | Cope: Just tell them you're ill and go home |
| 15:50.52 | pdr | :-( |
| 15:51.04 | wethrin | :( |
| 15:51.07 | gregj | :( |
| 15:51.17 | pdr | had a meeting today and this was left on the board when we arrived: |
| 15:51.19 | pdr | http://pdr.cx/tmp/southend.jpg |
| 15:51.21 | mozrat | :| |
| 15:51.25 | pdr | apparently, management want to move us to Southend. |
| 15:51.30 | pdr | so we added the bit on the left |
| 15:51.46 | Leeds | pdr: from? |
| 15:51.58 | pdr | ? |
| 15:52.03 | Leeds | where are you now? |
| 15:52.03 | pdr | left from another meeting |
| 15:52.06 | pdr | london |
| 15:52.10 | Leeds | ah |
| 15:52.14 | Leeds | Cope: cheers :-) |
| 15:52.58 | pdr | indeed, comisserations leeds |
| 15:53.22 | pdr | what's on the cards now leeds? |
| 15:53.33 | ikea | pdr: hello |
| 15:54.01 | pdr | ikea: hi |
| 15:54.32 | ikea | pdr: does that offer still stand? (regarding something on friday)= |
| 15:55.07 | Leeds | pdr: dunno, really |
| 15:55.15 | ikea | Anyone craving for beer and stuff on thursday, friday or saturday? |
| 15:55.21 | Leeds | ikea: you should be going to Brussels on Friday! |
| 15:55.27 | wethrin | What Leeds said |
| 15:55.28 | ikea | Leeds: naah :P |
| 15:55.35 | wethrin | I shall be drinking beer on all three days |
| 15:55.47 | ikea | wethrin: in london? |
| 15:56.06 | wethrin | Nope. In Durham |
| 15:56.35 | ikea | Who is in london this weekend? |
| 15:56.49 | Leeds | ikea: most of us will be in Brussels for the weekend |
| 15:56.49 | ikea | I need a guide |
| 15:56.59 | ikea | Leeds: you've said that two or three times now |
| 15:57.08 | ikea | pdr isn't going though |
| 15:57.13 | wethrin | Isnt' he? |
| 15:57.16 | wethrin | pdr: Shame! |
| 15:57.48 | pdr | it looks like i won't be, no |
| 15:57.53 | wethrin | Bah |
| 15:58.13 | wethrin | Then you shall at least come for excellent Thai food on April 1st! |
| 15:58.31 | Leeds | wethrin: there's Thai on April 1st? |
| 15:58.40 | wethrin | Yes. Birthdayfood. |
| 15:58.47 | wethrin | Come along! |
| 15:58.55 | pdr | yes, will be there |
| 15:58.57 | pdr | patara? |
| 15:59.00 | wethrin | Of course. |
| 15:59.12 | pdr | which one? soho or mayfair? |
| 15:59.12 | wethrin | Leeds: I haven't mailed anything about it yet |
| 15:59.15 | wethrin | Mayfair |
| 15:59.21 | wethrin | The one we went to at Christmas |
| 15:59.52 | ikea | hmmm. |
| 16:00.05 | ikea | is it to late to mail that social mailinlist now? |
| 16:00.12 | wethrin | No |
| 16:00.30 | wethrin | But you should subscribe first, so you're allowed to post |
| 16:00.39 | wethrin | And ask for a confirmation for people turning up |
| 16:01.12 | ikea | too. much. work. |
| 16:01.21 | ikea | think I'll be pleased with pdr alone. |
| 16:01.49 | pdr | ikea: well, i don't have anything on the cards for friday, but i'm in the doghouse with the g/f so she will take priority if needs be |
| 16:02.14 | pdr | otherwise i'll be out for a pint or two for sure |
| 16:02.35 | wethrin | Oh dear |
| 16:02.46 | ikea | heh |
| 16:02.59 | pdr | wethrin: not alison |
| 16:03.02 | wethrin | I know |
| 16:03.02 | ikea | pdr: you were talking about some university thingy..? |
| 16:03.15 | pdr | was i? |
| 16:03.21 | pdr | oh, the ULU |
| 16:03.25 | pdr | that was last friday |
| 16:03.28 | pdr | it was a good night |
| 16:03.35 | ikea | oh |
| 16:03.37 | ikea | doh. |
| 16:03.50 | ikea | pdr: you could recommend some nice places to go on a thursday |
| 16:04.22 | pdr | hmm.. what sort of thing are you interested in? |
| 16:05.17 | pdr | there's musicals and shows or even opera or ballet if you're into that sort of thing |
| 16:05.53 | pdr | plenty of tourist attractions to check out too |
| 16:06.47 | pdr | bbiat |
| 16:09.35 | Leeds | right, 629 quid or so expense request submitted |
| 16:12.41 | *** join/#gllug AngelChild (~angelic@exten-halls-245.soton.ac.uk) |
| 16:12.42 | wethrin | :) |
| 16:12.51 | ikea | heh |
| 16:13.12 | ikea | nah, I'll be in london about 23:30. I'm into drinking and such activities |
| 16:13.21 | ikea | I'm not there to look at tourist attraction |
| 16:14.30 | AngelChild | you'll fit in well |
| 16:15.15 | ikea | heh |
| 16:15.24 | ikea | AngelChild: got any good places on a thursday? |
| 16:15.35 | wethrin | At 23:30? Nothing. |
| 16:16.13 | Leeds | yeah, London after about 2300 !good |
| 16:16.48 | mozrat | the tube will be open |
| 16:16.50 | mozrat | :) |
| 16:17.11 | gregj | :0 |
| 16:17.13 | wethrin | Just |
| 16:17.14 | AngelChild | go round the circle line! repeatedly! |
| 16:17.16 | ikea | huh? |
| 16:17.27 | wethrin | "The next station is Baker Street" |
| 16:17.48 | ikea | There gotta be plenty of places filled with people on a thursday. c'mon! |
| 16:18.07 | wethrin | Not after pub-closing time |
| 16:18.35 | Leeds | ikea: most pubs/bars in the UK officially shut at 2300 every night except Sunday - a few are open a little later, but you're down to clubs after that, really |
| 16:19.04 | ikea | then clubs it is. |
| 16:19.32 | mozrat | ikea, you mean London, ENGLAND right? Not a place called London in a sane country with all night partying |
| 16:20.25 | ikea | your telling me that I'm fucked? :) |
| 16:20.40 | ikea | I'm looking forward to all night partying |
| 16:20.41 | wethrin | Yes |
| 16:20.49 | mozrat | not fucked, but unless you like clubbing Londons quiet after 11ish |
| 16:21.12 | mozrat | no quirky all night cafes like mainland Europe |
| 16:21.21 | ikea | I'll have to adapt. |
| 16:21.32 | ikea | can you recommend anything? |
| 16:21.53 | mozrat | Seriously, the Circle line's fun!!!! |
| 16:21.53 | ikea | should I'll just start walking towards soho? |
| 16:22.02 | mozrat | ikea, where are you from? |
| 16:22.11 | mozrat | Sweden << rough guess |
| 16:22.30 | ikea | correct |
| 16:22.35 | mozrat | wow! |
| 16:23.00 | murb | wethrin: up for another 1 hour dose of being in sweden this year? |
| 16:23.07 | mozrat | can we return you within 28 days? |
| 16:23.11 | murb | (there is a miniLBW in stockholm coming up) |
| 16:23.20 | wethrin | murb: That'd be more than 1 hour |
| 16:23.30 | wethrin | And yes, I'm planning on going |
| 16:23.42 | ikea | miniLBW? |
| 16:24.00 | murb | not a maxiLBW |
| 16:24.01 | wethrin | Yes, it's not a full LBW |
| 16:25.46 | murb | wethrin: are you also UKUUGing? |
| 16:26.25 | wethrin | I don't think so |
| 16:26.33 | wethrin | It overlaps too much |
| 16:26.48 | wethrin | And I had been promised a lift to LBW from drHyde |
| 16:29.21 | murb | ahah. |
| 16:29.42 | murb | have you figured out how to stop ukuug pestering you for money? |
| 16:29.56 | wethrin | So unless agk moves UKUUG to a different dateset, then I think it's hardly worth going for 2 days |
| 16:30.00 | murb | I sent them an email ot office@ saying i didn't wich to be a member. |
| 16:30.04 | murb | but still got an invoice. |
| 16:30.10 | wethrin | My invoice would be at home |
| 16:30.23 | wethrin | I'll see if I can get away with coming under the University of Durham umbrella |
| 16:30.43 | Leeds | going... |
| 16:30.51 | wethrin | going? |
| 16:30.58 | Leeds | that's the second going |
| 16:31.07 | wethrin | Ahh. No more beryllium? |
| 16:32.50 | Leeds | there's a third line to come... |
| 16:34.14 | ikea | 2 am. dammit. what's your problem over there? |
| 16:34.21 | wethrin | We like to sleep |
| 16:35.08 | ikea | you must have some enourmous need for sleep |
| 16:35.53 | wethrin | indeed |
| 16:35.54 | Leeds | sleep is for the weak |
| 16:36.01 | *** join/#gllug Shermozle (~simon@stout.rumble.net) |
| 16:36.01 | wethrin | for the week? |
| 16:36.05 | Shermozle | Evening... |
| 16:36.18 | wethrin | Hi |
| 16:36.19 | Leeds | wethrin: there is no week or weekend from tomorrow |
| 16:36.22 | Leeds | heya Shermozle |
| 16:36.23 | ikea | Shermozle: doing something special on thursday/friday? |
| 16:36.26 | wethrin | heh |
| 16:36.36 | Leeds | Shermozle: FOSDEMing? :-) |
| 16:36.44 | Shermozle | ikea: Yep, going to see a band on Friday. |
| 16:36.52 | ikea | Shermozle: thursday? |
| 16:37.08 | ikea | Shermozle: is this some major happening or just a local band? |
| 16:37.27 | Shermozle | ikea: Hilltop Hoods. Hip hop band from Adelaide. |
| 16:37.32 | Shermozle | ikea: What did you have in mind? |
| 16:37.40 | pdr | ikea: metros is open on thursday and they often have bands |
| 16:37.47 | pdr | thursday is metal night |
| 16:38.15 | ikea | I really don't care what they do at the places, as long as there is plenty of poeple and they are open until the subway starts again |
| 16:38.23 | ikea | +sp |
| 16:38.50 | ikea | Shermozle: I don't know really, do you mind guiding me and two friends on friday or saturday? |
| 16:38.57 | ikea | Shermozle: gotta find the good places :) |
| 16:44.45 | Shermozle | ikea: Erm, where are you from and what are you into? |
| 16:45.58 | Shermozle | ikea: The gig we're going to isn't an all-nighter. Just a gig. |
| 16:47.01 | ikea | Shermozle: heh, sweden. I'd go with house if my friends would freak out :) |
| 16:47.25 | Shermozle | ikea: What kind of music won't freak your friends out? |
| 16:47.25 | ikea | Shermozle: getting laid would be an alternative. |
| 16:49.09 | ikea | Shermozle: metal/rock/techno... pop to a certain degree. |
| 16:50.16 | Shermozle | ikea: If you want techno, Fabric's generally pretty reliable. |
| 16:51.58 | ikea | Shermozle: I'd like to rendevouz (spelling?) with you so you can point me in the right direction at least |
| 16:52.16 | Shermozle | ikea: Sorry I'm full up this weekend. |
| 16:52.32 | wethrin | ikea: Come to Brussels |
| 16:53.29 | ikea | wethrin: dammit. I've already booked a palce to stay in london. |
| 16:53.36 | ikea | wethrin: how do you get to brussles? |
| 16:53.38 | Shermozle | ikea: Fabric have Ellen Allien this weekend. Would be very good. |
| 16:53.40 | ikea | +sp again |
| 16:53.42 | wethrin | ikea: Eurostar |
| 16:53.46 | ikea | train? |
| 16:53.52 | wethrin | Yes |
| 16:54.00 | ikea | when do you get back? |
| 16:54.11 | wethrin | Sunday evening |
| 16:54.23 | ikea | My flight back is sunday morning... |
| 16:54.42 | wethrin | You picked the wrong weekend, unfortunately :-/ |
| 16:54.51 | ikea | yeah |
| 16:55.01 | ikea | Shermozle: is that a lrage place? |
| 16:58.07 | Leeds | GONE |
| 16:58.16 | wethrin | bye Leeds! |
| 16:58.20 | Leeds | seeya all from the other side of the looking glass |
| 17:02.21 | Shermozle | ikea: Fabric is enormous and Ellen Allien would be amazing. Wish I could go, actually. |
| 17:02.27 | Shermozle | ikea: http://www.fabriclondon.com/ |
| 17:05.04 | Shermozle | Yeesh. Is it gonna snow proper or wot? |
| 17:05.44 | eye69 | It's been snowing for most of the day here. :) |
| 17:06.16 | Shermozle | eye69: Where are you? |
| 17:06.41 | eye69 | Shermozle: 100km west of Stockholm. |
| 17:06.53 | Shermozle | Ahhh. |
| 17:07.08 | wethrin | eye69: So you're coming to the miniLBW in Stockholm in May? |
| 17:07.17 | Shermozle | Grrr. Motion is detecting "movement" in my flat, but there's nothing moving.... |
| 17:07.30 | eye69 | wethrin: Haven't even heard of that. |
| 17:07.40 | Shermozle | It has problems when the light levels drop. Have to get a better camera, methinks. |
| 17:07.49 | wethrin | eye69: Ahh. Well, you have now |
| 17:08.11 | eye69 | wethrin: Where's some info? |
| 17:08.17 | wethrin | #lbw |
| 17:11.36 | pdr | ikea: yeah, fabric will be open all night - it's a full-on white drug club tho |
| 17:24.13 | wethrin | It's over! |
| 17:24.15 | wethrin | It's after 5! |
| 17:24.20 | wethrin | Go home! Work smarter, not harder! |
| 17:24.39 | Shermozle | wethrin: Thanks to London Undercrap I didn't get here until 10:00.... |
| 17:24.45 | wethrin | D'oh |
| 17:24.49 | wethrin | Were they snowed under? |
| 17:24.51 | Shermozle | And my workplace doesn't do "smart". |
| 17:25.16 | Shermozle | wethrin: No, the driver decided to take a different branch to the one indicated on the platforms and the front of the train. Was probably heading off shift. Prick. |
| 17:25.21 | wethrin | D'oh |
| 17:25.40 | SlayerXP | the driver doesn't change the points |
| 17:26.23 | Shermozle | SlayerXP: Yes but they often head off to Northfields instead of the indicated destination. Normally they at least make a fscking announcement at Action Town. |
| 17:36.08 | Shermozle | So we gonna get more snow tonight then? |
| 17:36.12 | evangineer | Shermozle, no workplaces do smart in my experience |
| 17:36.45 | Shermozle | evangineer: I've worked in _one_. I knew it was a good place to work when the CEO turned up on my first day in shorts, hawaiian shirt and flip-flops. |
| 17:37.58 | Shermozle | evang: We had lots of very very smart people and did great work. Then some vulture capitalists bought in and sacked the CEO and it all went to shit. The VC's installed CEO was the classic pointy-haired boss. |
| 17:38.40 | evangineer | Shermozle, it was a similar story at arsdigita, phil greenspun's firm. |
| 17:39.01 | Shermozle | evang: You worked there? I read the story on his site. |
| 17:39.47 | evangineer | no, but I met some of the folks including greenspun and followed the whole saga quite closely at the time. |
| 17:40.08 | Shermozle | evang: Bootstrapping really does look like the only way... |
| 17:44.57 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@host-212-158-207-148.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 17:49.02 | evangineer | Shermozle, true, but it |
| 17:49.10 | evangineer | Shermozle, true, but it's hard without cash |
| 17:49.37 | evangineer | you have to keep your overheads very low. |
| 17:50.02 | evangineer | and be able to rustle up paying customers asap |
| 17:50.20 | evangineer | otherwise find a way of subsidising what you're doing |
| 17:50.36 | Shermozle | evangineer: Depends what you're doing. If you want to own a category, you need bucks. Otherwise you can probably bootstrap. |
| 17:52.07 | evangineer | greenspun had done the hard part of building up the firm, he was mistaken to sell out to VC. He should have stuck with organic growth. |
| 17:54.19 | Shermozle | Well, clockwatchers, the clock is about to strike six... That means I'm off :) |
| 17:56.18 | Shermozle | Anyhoo. Night y'all. |
| 17:56.34 | wethrin | bye all! |
| 17:56.58 | Leeds | wethrin: seeya |
| 18:00.51 | wethrin | Leeds: What E* were you getting again? |
| 18:01.02 | Leeds | wethrin: 14something |
| 18:01.11 | Leeds | I've got medical stuff to do in the morning |
| 18:01.22 | wethrin | Oh. Ah right. Yes. |
| 18:01.28 | wethrin | You going to come out for dinner with us? |
| 18:01.39 | Leeds | yes, although I don't get to .be until 1800ish |
| 18:05.12 | wethrin | Okay. So you come straight to restaurant? |
| 18:05.20 | wethrin | Give a call, anyhow |
| 18:05.29 | Leeds | yes |
| 18:05.34 | Leeds | well... maybe... |
| 18:05.59 | Leeds | depends on where, really... I'm thinking maybe not Leon? :-) |
| 18:07.39 | wethrin | Which one is Leon? |
| 18:07.44 | wethrin | The usual Friday-night one? |
| 18:07.47 | wethrin | Or the Saturday one? |
| 18:08.18 | Leeds | the usual friday night one |
| 18:08.37 | wethrin | Okay. I'll see about telling people. What are you objections? |
| 18:08.43 | wethrin | No non-kosher / veggie? |
| 18:08.53 | Leeds | only that it's corny and we've been a couple of times before |
| 18:09.18 | Leeds | it's not so much that I don't want to go there as wanting to go somewhere new |
| 18:09.29 | wethrin | Okay, fair enough |
| 18:12.15 | *** join/#gllug Catalyst` (~angelic@exten-halls-245.soton.ac.uk) |
| 18:13.19 | mozrat | hee, one for all the Mac [lovers|haters] >> http://beerandspeech.org/images/050222/macs_suck.wmv |
| 18:22.28 | *** join/#gllug phpappdev256 (~phpappdev@66-151-50-196.sog.polarisnet.net) |
| 18:23.52 | phpappdev256 | has anyone successfully setup a DVD-RW on redhat? |
| 18:28.02 | Leeds | I've written DVDs on Linux, if that's what you're asking |
| 18:32.36 | mozrat | heehee |
| 18:32.55 | mozrat | best not to bridge onto the network whilst playing with DHCP then |
| 18:34.46 | evangineer | damn fool, that's what home networks are for! |
| 18:45.50 | gregj | mozrat: this only shows how not secure your corporate network is than |
| 18:46.13 | gregj | I can setup dhcp server, with fake gateway, and get all traffic through my hrhrhrhr router |
| 18:49.17 | phpappdev256 | Leeds: I just replaced my cdrom drive with a dvdrw device. When i run "cdrecord -scanbus" it returns "No such file or directory. Cannot open '/dev/pg*'." |
| 18:49.42 | Leeds | phpappdev256: are you using a 2.6 kernel? |
| 18:49.49 | phpappdev256 | 2.4 |
| 18:50.13 | Leeds | ah |
| 18:50.25 | phpappdev256 | the documentation i've read says that I need to do "SCSI Emulation" |
| 18:50.47 | Leeds | except that you don't, with 2.6 :-) or even a late 2.4, I think |
| 18:51.19 | gregj | cdrecord dev=ATAPI -scanbus |
| 18:51.26 | gregj | if that's something above 2.4.24 |
| 18:51.35 | gregj | or was it dev:ATAPI |
| 18:51.39 | gregj | don't remember |
| 18:52.08 | stephen | dev=ATAPI, iirc |
| 18:52.17 | stephen | then it'll be dev=ATAPI:x,y,z |
| 18:52.29 | gregj | or dev=/dev/hdd |
| 18:52.31 | gregj | ;] |
| 18:52.39 | gregj | but that depends of cdrecord version |
| 18:52.47 | phpappdev256 | it's on /dev/hdc |
| 18:53.29 | phpappdev256 | Cdrecord 1.11a28 |
| 18:53.53 | gregj | just try to do dev=ATAPI |
| 18:54.06 | mozrat | gregj, very true.. how would you protect against an unauthorised DHCP server then? |
| 18:54.07 | phpappdev256 | Warning: Using ATA Packet interface. |
| 18:54.12 | phpappdev256 | Warning: The related libscg interface code is in pre alpha. |
| 18:54.17 | phpappdev256 | Warning: There may be fatal problems. |
| 18:54.44 | gregj | mozrat: I will try to discover fake dhcp's on the network |
| 18:54.47 | gregj | that's first |
| 18:55.13 | mozrat | gregj, how? |
| 18:55.14 | gregj | tcpdump|grep|mail |
| 18:55.16 | gregj | LD |
| 18:55.17 | gregj | :D |
| 18:55.20 | mozrat | presuming you wouldn't know it was there... |
| 18:55.36 | mozrat | yeah, but you wouldn't be tcpdumping the network looking for DHCP servers as a matter of course |
| 18:55.43 | gregj | plus, probably having dhcp network than is not a good idea |
| 18:55.53 | mozrat | ntop would tell you I guess |
| 18:56.11 | gregj | sure it is less hassle, but, it allows such network hijack |
| 18:56.24 | gregj | just thinking of top of my head, sorry for that |
| 18:56.37 | mozrat | unfortunately I work for a company where Linux products are at best not the norm, and at worse plain evil :) |
| 18:56.48 | mozrat | gregj, no, sorry, I wasn't having a dig |
| 18:56.51 | gregj | my job is to find such anomalies, but I am not the one who thinks about fixes ;) |
| 18:57.06 | phpappdev256 | hmmm... it works now... |
| 18:57.13 | mozrat | but without monitoring applications which most of my clients don't have DHCP hi-jacking is a tough one to spot |
| 18:57.14 | gregj | mozrat: just like most offices |
| 18:57.32 | phpappdev256 | i added a setting to /boot/grub/grub.conf |
| 18:57.42 | phpappdev256 | hdc=ide-scsi |
| 18:57.44 | gregj | linux based offices usualy are running X server-client thingie |
| 18:57.46 | phpappdev256 | thanks guys |
| 18:57.50 | gregj | phpappdev256: :-) |
| 18:58.02 | phpappdev256 | magic i guess |
| 18:58.35 | gregj | phpappdev256: new kernels and cdrecord lets you just specify device like dev=/dev/hdc |
| 18:58.56 | gregj | phpappdev256: but I am not sure what version of 2.4 is required and which version of cdrecord |
| 19:12.18 | *** join/#gllug BobtheAvenger (Bob@dial81-131-14-167.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 19:12.42 | BobtheAvenger | hey |
| 19:15.22 | *** join/#gllug ar (~ar@82.152.153.79) |
| 19:19.30 | Leeds | ooh, more snow |
| 19:20.52 | BobtheAvenger | got pelted by the fucking hail on the way home earlier |
| 19:21.25 | Leeds | we were all at the pub when it hailed in Watford |
| 19:21.51 | BobtheAvenger | heh |
| 19:22.08 | Leeds | 'twas a mass leaving do |
| 19:22.34 | BobtheAvenger | whos? |
| 19:22.39 | Leeds | ours |
| 19:22.48 | Leeds | all (well, almost all) the people in my office |
| 19:23.04 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
| 19:24.58 | Leeds | not really ok, no |
| 19:26.37 | BobtheAvenger | yer but anything else will either anger you or sounds stupid from a 15yo |
| 19:27.10 | Leeds | sympathy is always welcome |
| 19:27.38 | BobtheAvenger | ok//// poor you |
| 19:28.00 | Leeds | thanks :-) |
| 19:28.49 | BobtheAvenger | next step? |
| 19:28.56 | Leeds | duno yet |
| 19:29.07 | Leeds | still getting paid for another couple of months |
| 19:29.07 | BobtheAvenger | hack the CIA? |
| 19:29.47 | BobtheAvenger | lent = me + vegitarian |
| 19:30.05 | Leeds | huh? |
| 19:30.41 | BobtheAvenger | no meat or meat products for me till easter day |
| 19:31.08 | Leeds | ah, christian stuff |
| 19:31.27 | BobtheAvenger | yep |
| 19:31.52 | Leeds | not my kind of thig |
| 19:31.56 | Leeds | thing |
| 19:31.59 | BobtheAvenger | i guessed not |
| 19:32.15 | Leeds | :-) |
| 19:32.43 | BobtheAvenger | my wrist STILL hurts |
| 19:32.56 | BobtheAvenger | arg |
| 19:33.15 | Leeds | hmm... a 15 year old with a painful wrist? |
| 19:33.47 | BobtheAvenger | its cos i hit it afew days ago when i fell |
| 19:33.54 | Leeds | oh, really |
| 19:34.06 | BobtheAvenger | kinda serves me right |
| 19:35.26 | BobtheAvenger | i went iceskating and was racing someone and thats what happens when you lean so hard into a turn that you can touch the ice with you fingers when you you need the blades on you boots sharpened |
| 19:36.02 | Leeds | ah, okay |
| 19:36.10 | BobtheAvenger | but sharpening them means going to southgate |
| 19:37.36 | BobtheAvenger | need to work on stops |
| 19:56.47 | gregj | if [ -h /usr/src/linux-2.6.11-rc4/include/asm -o -f /usr/src/linux-2.6.11-rc4/.config ]; then \ |
| 19:56.51 | gregj | what this will do in bash ? |
| 19:56.58 | gregj | check if asm/ dir exists and file .config too ? |
| 19:57.02 | gregj | -o means or |
| 19:57.11 | gregj | -f if file exists, but I don't know -h |
| 19:57.59 | stephen | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:58.00 | stephen | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:58.19 | gregj | ok, now's clear |
| 19:58.48 | gregj | I have problems compiling nvidia driver here |
| 19:59.15 | gregj | I recopmiled fresh 2.6.11-rc4, than started nvidia compilation and it tells me to clear linux sources, with make mrproper |
| 19:59.25 | gregj | this will remove .config, which is quite strange |
| 19:59.36 | gregj | cos it won't be able to build driver afterwards for sure |
| 19:59.54 | gregj | and in their script I found : |
| 19:59.55 | gregj | |if [ -h /usr/src/linux-2.6.11-rc4/include/asm -o -f /usr/src/linux-2.6.11-rc4/.config ]; then \ |
| 19:59.59 | gregj | | echo " /usr/src/linux-2.6.11-rc4 is not clean, please run 'make mrproper'";\ |
| 20:00.02 | gregj | | echo " in the '/usr/src/linux-2.6.11-rc4' directory.";\ |
| 20:00.06 | gregj | | /bin/false; \ |
| 20:00.09 | gregj | so if asm is a link or .config exists... it won't build driver ? |
| 20:00.11 | gregj | insane |
| 20:09.18 | gregj | oh, that's in kernel's makefile |
| 20:44.27 | *** join/#gllug George_ (george@83.146.61.45) |
| 20:45.24 | *** join/#gllug BobtheAvenger (Bob@dial81-131-181-63.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 20:45.52 | BobtheAvenger | hey |
| 21:07.27 | *** part/#gllug murb (~murble@debian.home.boughton.org.uk) |
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| 21:45.42 | BobtheAvenger | hey |
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| 22:48.19 | gregj | http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20040217 |
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| 23:54.03 | Leeds | well, officially I'm off the work network, but my vpn connection is still up and my mail still works :-) |
| 23:58.11 | evangineer | Leeds, it will be interesting to see how long that lasts. |
| 23:59.12 | evangineer | then again it wouldn't have been anywhere near as interesting as a sun vpn anyway |
