| 00:08.23 | *** join/#gllug mozrat_ (~mozrat@host81-130-140-197.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 00:30.26 | Leeds | anyone around can do me a quick favour? |
| 00:31.00 | Leeds | "is there" "who" |
| 00:51.08 | mozrat_ | me me me |
| 00:52.11 | Leeds | thanks |
| 07:03.41 | *** join/#gllug morsing (~morsing@80.46.110.1) |
| 07:04.05 | morsing | morning |
| 07:45.38 | *** join/#gllug Jang0 (~Jango@pgnn.demon.co.uk) |
| 07:45.51 | *** join/#gllug Jang0 (~Jango@pgnn.demon.co.uk) |
| 08:15.09 | Cope | morning |
| 08:17.14 | *** join/#gllug clyphox (~clyphox@82-35-127-97.cable.ubr01.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 08:26.38 | *** join/#gllug mozrat_ (~mozrat@194.203.40.131) |
| 08:27.01 | mozrat_ | morning folks |
| 08:28.42 | Cope | hello mozrat_ z |
| 08:28.59 | mozrat_ | Cope! |
| 08:29.02 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@host-212-158-207-148.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 08:29.15 | mozrat_ | moin Leeds |
| 08:29.47 | Leeds | hey hey! |
| 08:31.06 | mozrat_ | You sound chipper this morning |
| 08:32.32 | mozrat_ | Bah, none of my torrents downloaded anything last night :( |
| 08:34.37 | Cope | I can't find anywhere useful. |
| 08:36.13 | mozrat_ | misnomer |
| 08:36.30 | Cope | in which universe? I leave at about 6.30 and still get stuck in terrible traffice |
| 08:37.11 | Leeds | Cope: see, that's your mistake right there: going to the office... |
| 08:37.16 | Cope | they're making a big fuss on the bbc - apprently it snowed a lot in yorkshire / cumbria |
| 08:37.27 | mozrat_ | Cope, my point exactly.. no-one rushes during rush hour and it lasts for about 4 hours |
| 08:37.38 | Cope | mozrat_: indeed |
| 08:39.21 | mozrat_ | If I put a /notify setting on does it work after disconnecting and reconnecting to IRC? |
| 08:42.12 | Leeds | http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/24/newsid_4292000/4292041.stm |
| 08:42.45 | Leeds | mozrat_: quite possibly depends on your client, I'd guess |
| 08:43.07 | mozrat_ | Leeds, but it isn't a server-side thing, like your password? |
| 08:43.21 | Leeds | dunno, really :-) |
| 08:43.58 | Cope | lol @ 1981 - Prince Charles and Lady Diana to marry |
| 08:44.50 | Leeds | Cope: what a difference 24 years makes... |
| 08:45.34 | Cope | Leeds: that 1955 story somewhat puts the bbc's fuss about this week into perspective. |
| 08:45.45 | Leeds | indeed |
| 08:46.27 | Cope | by my maths, that was when my mum was co0nceived. |
| 09:02.42 | morsing | Mmm... EOD |
| 09:21.02 | *** join/#gllug mikejw (~mikejw@81-179-95-54.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 09:21.41 | Leeds | morning mikey |
| 09:23.39 | mikejw | yo! :) |
| 09:58.10 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@host-212-158-207-148.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 10:00.23 | morsing | wb |
| 10:00.30 | Leeds | breakfast time :-) |
| 10:00.36 | morsing | Just had... |
| 10:00.38 | morsing | WORK! |
| 10:02.10 | clyphox | hmmm food |
| 10:02.48 | Leeds | mmm... breakfast drugs |
| 10:14.52 | *** join/#gllug itsbruce (~brichards@router-office.fotango.com) |
| 10:29.34 | *** join/#gllug SlayerXP (~Mart@burningchrome.demon.co.uk) |
| 10:36.48 | Leeds | mmm... soup |
| 10:39.45 | Cope | bt engineer is on his way to try to find out why my adls doesn't wprk |
| 10:40.05 | eye69 | Morning. |
| 10:40.08 | Cope | meanwhile I'm thinking this free-dialup isn't so bad. |
| 10:40.10 | Cope | hi eye69 |
| 10:40.15 | eye69 | Hey Cope |
| 10:40.57 | eye69 | I'm about to move...broadband is included in the rent, but it's only 512kb :/ |
| 10:41.33 | eye69 | To get proper speeds I'd have to get a phoneline. |
| 10:44.13 | SlayerXP | you know, I despair of some people's logic |
| 10:44.35 | SlayerXP | "hmmm, I want to get less spam. I know! I'll go out and try and get more spam!!!" |
| 10:44.48 | eye69 | Hehe, reading the list I hear. :) |
| 10:48.22 | Cope | SlayerXP: but you understand what he wants to do, even if the method is od... he wants a wadge of spam for training purposes. |
| 10:48.31 | SlayerXP | yes |
| 10:48.40 | SlayerXP | therefore he can just wait for a few weeks |
| 10:48.46 | Cope | i thought there were files of the stuff kicking around? |
| 10:48.46 | SlayerXP | it'll show up anyway |
| 10:49.06 | SlayerXP | what's he's done is this: |
| 10:49.36 | SlayerXP | if you enable bayes filtering in SA, by default, it will wait until it has 200 known not spam and 200 known spam messages |
| 10:49.40 | *** join/#gllug pdr (~pdr@213.86.35.150) |
| 10:49.48 | SlayerXP | this is ultraconservative |
| 10:49.49 | ikea | morning |
| 10:50.13 | Cope | hello ikea |
| 10:50.21 | Cope | have youhad any luck with your router project? |
| 10:50.22 | SlayerXP | you can drop this figure as low as 40-50 and still get pretty good results, though then you need to do mistake based learning |
| 10:50.42 | SlayerXP | i.e. if it marks a nonspam as spam, you have to tell SA it's actually nonspam |
| 10:50.49 | Cope | right |
| 10:50.53 | SlayerXP | and viceversa |
| 10:51.38 | Cope | did you hear about .ch?? |
| 10:51.46 | SlayerXP | not yet |
| 10:51.53 | Cope | sorry only one ? intended |
| 10:53.42 | *** join/#gllug AngelChild (~angelic@AngelChild.user.allegro) |
| 10:54.46 | Cope | SlayerXP: back to spam, I am sure I've read an article about SA in which the author fed SA a huge amount of spam from a file. |
| 10:55.01 | Cope | SlayerXP: is this not recommened? |
| 10:55.04 | SlayerXP | no |
| 10:55.14 | SlayerXP | not unless it's _your_ spam |
| 10:55.22 | pdr | what happened to .ch then? |
| 10:55.32 | Cope | i think the TLD is still there |
| 10:55.34 | SlayerXP | dunno yet |
| 10:55.46 | SlayerXP | allegedly having a telephone interview either yesterday or today |
| 10:56.43 | Cope | in germna, french, english or italian? or all 4? |
| 10:56.43 | Cope | stupid country |
| 10:57.22 | SlayerXP | english |
| 10:57.32 | SlayerXP | i'm the only candidate for the post though |
| 11:01.06 | itsbruce | Some places only ever consider one candidate at a time. |
| 11:01.27 | SlayerXP | cfengine is a bit of a rare skill |
| 11:01.28 | Cope | eg Chelsea are making a 'complaint' eventually becomes 'a report into the game' |
| 11:01.38 | itsbruce | cfengine++ |
| 11:02.17 | SlayerXP | indeed |
| 11:02.43 | itsbruce | Version 2.× in particular |
| 11:04.20 | itsbruce | I got fed up mentioning it on the list. Too much penis-waggling of the "Real men do it all with shell scripts and rdist". Which majorly misses the point. |
| 11:06.31 | SlayerXP | itsbruce: "come back when your rdist tomfoolery scales to 9000 servers" |
| 11:13.17 | clyphox | I'm neutral |
| 11:13.37 | clyphox | although I do particularly hate redhat and compaq insight manager |
| 11:20.52 | itsbruce | In combination? Or are they just top of your most-loathed list? |
| 11:23.13 | Eyore | morning |
| 11:23.50 | Leeds | hey |
| 11:23.53 | Eyore | getting thousands of messages like this "Feb 23 16:23:06 lynxo kernel: NET: 456 messages suppressed." |
| 11:24.16 | Eyore | followed by the entire network going crazy, would be indicative of what problem? :) |
| 11:24.58 | Eyore | linux does a great job of suppressing the errors, to much so in fact it doesn't even print one copy |
| 11:25.15 | Eyore | the numbers get bigger and bigger and then it stops and normality returns |
| 11:25.21 | Cope | Ok... I have a site (A) whose content resides in www.mysite.com/over/here; the content is being moved to a different machine & IP; if I change the A record associated with www.mysite.com, am I correct in thinking that the ./over/here but will persist; and since on the new machine the conetnt is now ./actually/here/now that I need to do a server-side redirect on the new server? |
| 11:25.58 | Eyore | sounds correct |
| 11:27.05 | Eyore | although if people access the site from the domain www.mysite.com |
| 11:27.14 | Eyore | it doesn't matter to much |
| 11:27.21 | Eyore | only if people have the path bookmarked |
| 11:27.33 | Cope | no, they always use the ptah, bookmarked - that's the pint |
| 11:29.28 | Eyore | then yes a rewrite rule could work to point their browsers at the new location |
| 11:30.32 | rhowe | whee "Thank you very much for your helpful information, |
| 11:30.33 | rhowe | We have used root account to fixed all client phpnuke webmail exploit issue on HKT yesterday 23 Feb 05 10:35 AM (GMT +8)" |
| 11:32.41 | Cope | rhowe! |
| 11:33.43 | Leeds | Eyore: doesn't dmesg tell you anything? |
| 11:36.33 | Eyore | nothing very exciting |
| 11:36.44 | rhowe | heh |
| 11:36.48 | Eyore | I don't understand where it's putting the first message if it's supressing the rest |
| 11:37.25 | rhowe | Cope: You just found the best way of contacting me |
| 11:37.48 | rhowe | Cope: Poke me in #linux, and my boss tells me that someone wants to get in touch :P |
| 11:38.13 | Cope | lol |
| 11:38.39 | Cope | just alerting you of my presence |
| 11:40.42 | Eyore | This is quite annoying, i bet it's related to why all the machines fall over every few hours |
| 11:41.02 | clyphox | annoying isn't the word I'd use :-) |
| 11:41.07 | clyphox | ...too polite |
| 11:41.49 | Eyore | I agree i was woken up at 5am and had to restart them all this morning |
| 11:42.28 | clyphox | :-/ why? |
| 11:43.51 | Eyore | cos the networking issue made them all die? I guess |
| 11:44.07 | Eyore | i say restart, i mean restart the software that runs on them |
| 11:44.18 | Eyore | run out of file handles/sockets |
| 11:51.10 | pdr | cope, don't use a rewrite rule - these are slow. instead use a Redirect line so that they get a 302 back. |
| 11:51.38 | pdr | er, 301 i mean, i think |
| 11:58.33 | Cope | how realistic would the idea of having data entered in a wiki with a postgres back-end be then made into xml format for parsing elsewhere? |
| 12:00.51 | Eyore | i don't know anything that does it out of the box. Except as a web service, but i guess you don't want hat |
| 12:01.14 | Eyore | whats the purpose? |
| 12:02.13 | Cope | i don't mean out of t he box - i mean writng it - is the idea sane |
| 12:02.37 | Eyore | depends why you are doing it |
| 12:03.01 | Eyore | obviously you CAN do it, it depends on why you are doing it if it's worth the hassle |
| 12:03.43 | Cope | the purpose is that I have an online 'game' with a help sysrtem which is not kept up-to-date; making changes in game is not convenient; a wiki would be ideal, but I want to sync the wiki and the game, by taking an xml version of the help in the database, and feedining it into the game to be processed and ouputted approipriately. |
| 12:03.53 | Leeds | Cope: do you mean, essentially, using a wiki as an input path for a database application? |
| 12:04.15 | Leeds | Cope: stop that - you're confusing me! |
| 12:04.49 | Cope | Leeds: yes, with the second point being to then use the data in the db as the source of the game's help system, which relies upon xml to output the info. |
| 12:05.25 | Eyore | why not just use a web front end of the database |
| 12:05.32 | Eyore | to eit the data |
| 12:05.52 | Leeds | the main issue, I'd think would be keeping the input structured correctly - as Eyore says, it might be better to just have a custom web front-end to the database |
| 12:06.38 | Cope | yeah i see that |
| 12:38.51 | wethrin | morning |
| 12:39.11 | wethrin | ooh |
| 12:39.19 | ikea | nice |
| 12:39.23 | Leeds | maybe |
| 12:39.28 | ikea | zope is that python webserver-stuff, right? |
| 12:39.36 | Leeds | ikea: yes |
| 12:48.11 | *** join/#gllug itsbruce (~brichards@router-office.fotango.com) |
| 12:52.46 | eye69 | Is Slashdot broken for somebody else? |
| 12:52.52 | eye69 | Broken as in "no news". |
| 12:53.12 | Eyore | There is "no news today" |
| 12:53.18 | Eyore | actually not it isn't |
| 12:56.48 | wethrin | eye69: /. always has no news :) |
| 13:02.42 | itsbruce | But loads of childish comment |
| 13:03.46 | SlayerXP | cool |
| 13:04.02 | SlayerXP | when asked why he wants to recompile stuff to "optimise" for his p4... |
| 13:04.03 | SlayerXP | <Stral> interested to see if running stuff with p4 code will use less battery on my laptop |
| 13:05.00 | wethrin | ... |
| 13:05.22 | wethrin | Actually, it might, if it uses one processor cycle instead of many |
| 13:05.47 | wethrin | (one P4 instruction, rather than lots of i386 ones) |
| 13:06.38 | itsbruce | In the long run, sticking with a 486 base seems the best option for maintenance and consistency. |
| 13:07.49 | itsbruce | It'll always work and some chips are optimised to run old code quickly. Optimising for a specific chip only really makes sense for laptops or very specific cases. |
| 13:08.31 | itsbruce | Build all the code on a server for p4 and then have reall fun if you need to swap the disk into something else in an emergency. |
| 13:09.50 | wethrin | YEah |
| 13:10.37 | *** join/#gllug mozrat (~mozrat@195.68.238.6) |
| 13:11.28 | itsbruce | But then all too many geeks do these things just because they can, mistaking activity for productivity. |
| 13:11.34 | itsbruce | How else do you explain Gentoo? |
| 13:11.38 | AngelChild | See also: gentoo.org |
| 13:11.42 | AngelChild | boo |
| 13:12.11 | SlayerXP | pendants or pedants? |
| 13:12.12 | wethrin | A real geek doesn't mistake activity for productivity |
| 13:12.17 | wethrin | pedants |
| 13:12.24 | wethrin | I've had a slip of the ns |
| 13:22.45 | *** join/#gllug Shermozle (~simon@stout.rumble.net) |
| 13:22.49 | Shermozle | Hooroo. |
| 13:23.30 | Shermozle | Guess who's bored at work? |
| 13:24.14 | *** join/#gllug Cope_ (~sanelson@82-69-220-158.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 13:24.17 | itsbruce | wethrin: There is absolutely nothing in the classical concept of "geek" that indicates a sense of proportion |
| 13:25.05 | Leeds | Shermozle: not me |
| 13:25.24 | Leeds | "please refrain from tasting the knob" |
| 13:26.31 | Shermozle | Leeds: You're not missing much, believe me... |
| 13:26.38 | itsbruce | In fact, obsessive behaviour and vulnerability to shiny distractions is part of the stereotype |
| 13:26.39 | Shermozle | So where's this deluge of snow we've been promised? |
| 13:33.10 | wethrin | It's up here |
| 13:33.54 | Leeds | wethrin: oh, you're hoarding it? |
| 13:33.54 | wethrin | Yes |
| 13:33.54 | wethrin | It's all OURS! |
| 13:34.31 | Leeds | "very few cartoons are broadcast live; it's a terrible strain on the animator's wrists" |
| 13:34.44 | wethrin | :-) |
| 13:34.47 | wethrin | Leeds: Bored? |
| 13:34.59 | Leeds | wethrin: not really - just relaxing with the simpsons on :-) |
| 13:35.12 | Leeds | trying to resist the urge to buy a new digicam |
| 13:35.40 | *** join/#gllug ADSLCope (~sanelson@82-69-220-158.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 13:35.56 | Leeds | yay |
| 13:35.59 | clyphox | wooo ADSLCope |
| 13:36.33 | wethrin | yay Cope! |
| 13:36.35 | wethrin | Leeds: Ah :) |
| 13:36.43 | wethrin | Get Digicam |
| 13:38.48 | *** mode/#gllug [+o Cope] by ChanServ |
| 13:39.01 | wethrin | Ooh. Power-wielding |
| 13:44.59 | *** kick/#gllug [Cope_!~sanelson@82-69-220-158.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] by Cope (Cope) |
| 13:50.22 | clyphox | hmmm digicam... |
| 13:50.44 | *** mode/#gllug [-o Cope] by ChanServ |
| 13:51.30 | Cope | silly BT |
| 13:57.24 | wethrin | FOSDEM people: Tushar muttered about meeting at the pub at 7, and going for food from there |
| 14:00.20 | clyphox | someone was telling me u can get blueyonder broadband the otherday without a telephone line at all... |
| 14:00.54 | clyphox | I tried explaining that you need a telephone line for anything to happen.. but it was a kinda hopeless dialog.... MEH.. people |
| 14:01.25 | Cope | clyphox: managed express |
| 14:01.30 | Cope | ? |
| 14:01.39 | clyphox | whats that? |
| 14:01.46 | Cope | never mind |
| 14:01.52 | clyphox | ok |
| 14:03.46 | eye69 | Here in Sweden the equivalent of Ofcom have made it so that you can get DSL without having service from the equivalent of BT. |
| 14:08.56 | Shermozle | Now that's what I want. I really resent paying a tenner a month for something I barely use. |
| 14:09.52 | eye69 | Yeah, and if you want it you can use IP telephony. |
| 14:12.18 | *** join/#gllug resudaed (~tom@82-45-243-70.cable.ubr01.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 14:12.51 | wethrin | hi tom |
| 14:17.35 | Shermozle | So where's this snow then eh? |
| 14:17.46 | Shermozle | They _lied_ to us! |
| 14:18.40 | wethrin | brian? |
| 14:18.44 | wethrin | It's up here! |
| 14:20.54 | pdr | it was snowing earlier in forest hill, bermondsey and soho |
| 14:21.33 | pdr | but not much and it was melting before it even hit the ground |
| 14:22.52 | clyphox | its cold enough for me anyway |
| 14:27.23 | rhowe | wethrin: Which pub? |
| 14:27.36 | rhowe | wethrin: Also, what time are you getting to Waterloo? |
| 14:27.41 | wethrin | rhowe: In Brussels? The Roy D'Espagne |
| 14:27.54 | wethrin | rhowe: The GNER service should get into Kings X around 9.0something |
| 14:28.09 | rhowe | wethrin: Ah right, so not much time for a bit of a social in the station then |
| 14:28.18 | wethrin | rhowe: Sufficient |
| 14:28.32 | rhowe | OK |
| 14:28.34 | wethrin | We should be at Waterloo around 9.20, which gives an hour |
| 14:28.41 | rhowe | Can introduce you to Daga then :P |
| 14:28.41 | wethrin | However, I think a social should include breakfast |
| 14:29.07 | wethrin | But we're also meeting other people, so....foo |
| 14:29.11 | wethrin | Daga? |
| 14:29.29 | rhowe | Barmaid in a pub in Waterloo |
| 14:29.36 | rhowe | Although said pub may well not be open at 9am :P |
| 14:29.37 | wethrin | Oooh ;-) |
| 14:29.42 | wethrin | Might be open for breakfasts |
| 14:29.46 | rhowe | Maybe |
| 14:29.59 | wethrin | How long does it take you to get from home to Waterloo? |
| 14:52.43 | evangineer | Leeds, zope jobbie? |
| 14:54.27 | *** join/#gllug zachary (~zachary@ip68-10-214-228.hr.hr.cox.net) |
| 14:54.38 | *** join/#gllug cup (~alex@netvoya-adsl.demon.co.uk) |
| 14:54.52 | evangineer | ah, I see the job in question |
| 14:55.00 | evangineer | yo, zachary |
| 14:55.16 | zachary | heya, evangineer |
| 15:00.33 | Shermozle | evangineer: You only just worked out that cable companies shouldn't be handling your mail? |
| 15:01.20 | evangineer | Shermozle, not really, just been too lazy to sort it out myself up until now. |
| 15:01.28 | itsbruce | Cool. Nigerian spam in German. |
| 15:04.06 | wethrin | zach! |
| 15:04.29 | zachary | afternoon wethrin ! |
| 15:05.27 | wethrin | Come up north! |
| 15:05.41 | Shermozle | wethrin: Not until Easter. |
| 15:06.04 | morsing | Which station does the EuroStar leave from? |
| 15:06.16 | wethrin | Waterloo |
| 15:06.18 | Shermozle | Waterloo |
| 15:06.28 | wethrin | There's a big sign saying EUROSTAR |
| 15:06.33 | morsing | Thanks. |
| 15:06.42 | morsing | wethrin: At Marylebone? |
| 15:06.54 | wethrin | morsing: No, at Waterloo :) |
| 15:07.03 | wethrin | But you can ask at Marylebone |
| 15:07.07 | morsing | Ahh... Wouldn't have helped me then :-) |
| 15:07.09 | wethrin | It's a nice simple Bakerloo line hop |
| 15:07.16 | morsing | All the way? |
| 15:07.25 | wethrin | Yup |
| 15:07.33 | wethrin | Then follow the signs |
| 15:07.45 | morsing | Mmm... signs |
| 15:09.26 | itsbruce | Living south of the river scores, for once. /me lives three stops from Waterloo. |
| 15:09.52 | Shermozle | I take it you're going to FOSDEM then? |
| 15:10.00 | Leeds | itsbruce: at least I'm a direct northern line away |
| 15:10.18 | wethrin | Shermozle: Yes |
| 15:10.30 | wethrin | itsbruce: on mainline, or tube? |
| 15:11.20 | itsbruce | wethrin: both, though the quickest route is a combination. Or I could just get on a bus, which would take about 35 minutes. |
| 15:12.16 | wethrin | Hm |
| 15:21.15 | morsing | Cope: Thanks - I needed that |
| 15:27.36 | rhowe | wethrin: For me, home to Waterloo East is probably about 40-45mins |
| 15:27.55 | morsing | For me it's closer to 2h |
| 15:27.55 | rhowe | wethrin: 15mins walk to Hither Green, then 10-15mins on the train to London Bridge |
| 15:28.14 | rhowe | Add on a bit for waiting around and the extra stop |
| 15:28.29 | wethrin | rhowe: So if I give you a call when we're in Peterborough, should be sufficient? |
| 15:28.38 | wethrin | That's about an hour away from Kings X |
| 15:33.07 | rhowe | wethrin: Well I'll just leave at my normal time |
| 15:33.21 | rhowe | wethrin: I start work at 9:30, so I will be at waterlook about 9:45ish |
| 15:33.27 | rhowe | s/k / / |
| 15:34.40 | itsbruce | You guys doing the morning train, then? I'm on the 12:40, with Dean and co. |
| 15:34.52 | morsing | Cope? |
| 15:35.28 | Cope | morsing: wethrin starts work at 9.30 so will at waterloo 15 minutes later? |
| 15:35.37 | Cope | s/wethrin/rhowe/ |
| 15:36.00 | morsing | No that's rhowe. He's work is paying so he wont move till he's officially at work |
| 15:36.46 | wethrin | itsbruce: We're doing the 1043 |
| 15:37.38 | itsbruce | In which case, 9:45 is cutting it just fine but should be OK. |
| 15:40.42 | wethrin | itsbruce: An hour is plenty |
| 15:43.07 | rhowe | hm, my ring has split :/ |
| 15:43.15 | rhowe | morsing: Work isn't paying :/ |
| 15:43.25 | itsbruce | rhowe: TMI |
| 15:43.35 | rhowe | Just saying that I'll get the train I normally get, but stay on until Waterloo East |
| 15:46.50 | wethrin | Right |
| 15:47.00 | wethrin | So I'll just meet you at the E* lobby |
| 15:51.32 | Shermozle | Bah... This week just keeps on going.... |
| 15:52.30 | wethrin | Only another couple of hours! :) |
| 16:18.11 | *** join/#gllug jonmasters (~jcm@212.13.197.123) |
| 16:33.11 | morsing | wethrin: When are you giving a talk at a Gllug meeting? |
| 16:34.01 | wethrin | No idea |
| 16:46.15 | Leeds | in the mood to shop, and got new credit card and payslip in the post today |
| 16:47.15 | evangineer | Leeds, put on favorite games/movies/shows |
| 16:47.26 | Leeds | I think I'm going to Stevenage |
| 16:47.45 | Leeds | cheap/good camera shop there with the one I want in stock... |
| 16:47.55 | Leeds | ... |
| 16:48.12 | wethrin | Won't it be closed soon? |
| 16:48.27 | Leeds | 5:30 |
| 16:48.32 | Leeds | just got time to get there, I think :-) |
| 16:48.57 | Shermozle | Leeds: Step away from the credit card with your hands up! |
| 16:49.06 | Leeds | I'm not unemployed yet! |
| 16:50.44 | wethrin | :) |
| 16:50.51 | wethrin | Too late |
| 16:52.17 | morsing | Leeds: Give us the money |
| 16:58.08 | clyphox | woot hometime! |
| 16:58.31 | pdr | Leeds: do you know of a thomas cohen in australia? |
| 17:03.23 | morsing | Leeds: Or a Leonard Cohen? |
| 17:15.26 | *** join/#gllug Numz (~Numz@82-35-18-215.cable.ubr03.hari.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 17:24.21 | rhowe | whee, hellooooooo weekend! |
| 17:24.31 | pdr | there's still one day to go |
| 17:24.37 | rhowe | Day off tomorrow :) |
| 17:24.39 | rhowe | FOSDEM |
| 17:24.43 | wethrin | pdr: There's FOSDEM tomorrow |
| 17:24.45 | wethrin | Lots of boozing |
| 17:24.58 | pdr | you guys suck |
| 17:25.03 | pdr | :-P |
| 17:25.04 | rhowe | wethrin: iff I get paid tomorrow, that is :) |
| 17:25.07 | wethrin | YEs :) |
| 17:25.10 | wethrin | rhowe: You're boozing anyway |
| 17:25.15 | rhowe | wethrin: On a quid? :P |
| 17:25.27 | rhowe | A quid I'm going to be buying dinner with :P |
| 17:25.41 | wethrin | rhowe: Meh :) |
| 17:31.33 | Cope | etc |
| 17:31.38 | wethrin | It's something to be proud of? |
| 17:31.49 | wethrin | Cope: Why is Windows such a pile of shit? |
| 17:31.58 | Cope | Its not :) |
| 17:32.01 | wethrin | It's stopped letting me print for NO FUCKING REASON |
| 17:32.08 | wethrin | That, to me, is a pile of shit |
| 17:32.11 | Cope | Agreed! |
| 17:33.02 | wethrin | So, why is Windows suck a pile of shit? |
| 17:33.19 | wethrin | *such |
| 17:34.23 | zachary | Dodgy ergo MS? |
| 17:34.37 | wethrin | MS ergo dodgy, I think :) |
| 17:35.58 | zachary | yes, agreed! |
| 17:38.53 | wethrin | Oh, now the fucking thing works again |
| 17:38.59 | wethrin | What a crock of shit |
| 17:39.01 | zachary | wethrin, When you finish with Fosdem, could you place a case of beer in the ocean and push it westward. I'll have my wife pick it up when her ship deploys next week. |
| 17:39.09 | wethrin | I'll try! |
| 17:41.27 | *** join/#gllug ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 17:41.27 | *** topic/#gllug is Greater London LUG. Next meeting: Saturday 12-Mar-2005, Web site: http://www.gllug.org.uk; Wiki: http://wiki.gllug.org.uk; Channel stats at http://www.jonmasters.org/irc/gllug |
| 18:00.22 | pdr | ibot what's wrong? |
| 18:00.23 | ibot | hmm... wrong is http://people.trustcommerce.com/~adam/top10/wrong.html |
| 18:00.40 | pdr | ha |
| 18:02.35 | Cope | Have fun! |
| 18:03.04 | wethrin | Cope: But you'll be there next year! |
| 18:05.47 | mikejw | me too I hope =] |
| 18:06.15 | wethrin | Good! |
| 18:06.43 | mikejw | wethrin: take care |
| 18:11.08 | Leeds | pdr: you do know just how common a name Cohen is, right? |
| 18:15.02 | pdr | Leeds: no i don't |
| 18:15.13 | pdr | i guess it's a pretty common name then? |
| 18:15.33 | Leeds | pdr: extremely |
| 18:16.44 | Leeds | there is a small number of biblical Jewish surnames - Levi and related things (Lavin, for example) and Cohen (always the same name, sometimes a different spelling like Coen) |
| 18:17.11 | Cope | Lewin |
| 18:17.11 | pdr | levi were one of the tribes of israel no? |
| 18:17.37 | Leeds | Cope: right |
| 18:17.39 | Leeds | pdr: right :-) |
| 18:17.58 | Leeds | and the Cohens are/were the priestly sub-family of the Levites |
| 18:18.28 | Cope | rueben, simeon, levi, napthalim, issacar, asher, dan, zebulan, gad, jacob, benjamen, judah, joseph |
| 18:18.32 | Leeds | there are still parts of a synagogue service where a Cohen is required or prefered |
| 18:18.32 | Cope | (I think) |
| 18:18.49 | Cope | s/naphtalim/naphtali/ |
| 18:19.05 | Leeds | Cope: right, except that the tribe of Joseph is actually split into two half-tribes for his sons |
| 18:19.37 | Leeds | I only know the tribes by reciting the line from the Joseph musical :-) |
| 18:19.39 | pdr | but i thought the jews were only of the tribe of judah? |
| 18:19.59 | pdr | actually, ignore me, that doesn't make sense |
| 18:20.12 | pdr | they all worshipped the same god from before that, didn't they? |
| 18:20.20 | pdr | from abraham, etc |
| 18:20.25 | Cope | arguably |
| 18:20.32 | Leeds | that's the source of the name... the more correct term, of course, is Israelites - as in children of Israel, which was the name God gave to Isaac |
| 18:20.51 | pdr | i see |
| 18:21.04 | Cope | Leeds: do you believe in prayer? as in do you believe prayer changes things? |
| 18:21.09 | Leeds | Jew isn't really a Jewish word, as it happens |
| 18:21.30 | Leeds | Cope: do I believe that God is listening to prayers and acts on them? not really |
| 18:21.53 | Cope | that's not a very nice god then. |
| 18:22.15 | Cope | he can't be terribly interested in his children if he doesn't listen to their prayers and act on them. |
| 18:22.28 | Leeds | in a more generic sense, I don't think that God particularly acts directly within the world today |
| 18:22.37 | Cope | he's retired? |
| 18:22.43 | Leeds | nope |
| 18:23.12 | Jang0 | so, what'll happen when the messiah comes? |
| 18:23.16 | Leeds | God acting directly in the world is called a miracle - and I don't think they happen as such today |
| 18:23.37 | Cope | Jang0: the messiah has already come... </troll> |
| 18:23.57 | *** mode/#gllug [+o Leeds] by ChanServ |
| 18:24.16 | Leeds | Cope: say that again, I dare you :-P |
| 18:24.21 | *** mode/#gllug [-o Leeds] by ChanServ |
| 18:24.22 | *** mode/#gllug [+o Cope] by ChanServ |
| 18:24.28 | *** mode/#gllug [+o Leeds] by ChanServ |
| 18:24.30 | *** mode/#gllug [-o Cope] by ChanServ |
| 18:24.32 | Cope | ok! |
| 18:24.40 | Leeds | :-) |
| 18:24.42 | *** mode/#gllug [-o Leeds] by ChanServ |
| 18:24.52 | *** mode/#gllug [+o Cope] by ChanServ |
| 18:24.59 | Cope | silly |
| 18:25.18 | *** mode/#gllug [-o Cope] by ChanServ |
| 18:25.52 | Leeds | now... to see if John Lewis consider Stevenage to be close enough to Brent Cross to price-match... I doubt it... |
| 18:26.01 | Cope | seriously though - I don't understand the idea that somehow God used to do miracle but now he doesn't. |
| 18:26.19 | Leeds | it gets mystical and therefore vague |
| 18:26.30 | Cope | nice kop-out :-) |
| 18:27.02 | Cope | so when was the last miracle? |
| 18:27.02 | pdr | ok, i'm off |
| 18:27.05 | pdr | laterz |
| 18:27.09 | Leeds | pdr: seeya |
| 18:27.13 | Leeds | seeya tomorrow? |
| 18:27.25 | Cope | if there's a 'dispensation' in which miracles used to happen, when did it end? |
| 18:27.33 | pdr | i'm not going to fosdem if that's what you mean :-( |
| 18:28.51 | Leeds | the theory goes - and this is only one theory amongst many, of course - that in the post-biblical world, and as a necessary part of human freewill, God generally doesn't directly act in the world - He influences things to some extent on a grand scale, but He's set down the rules/plans/etc. and it's up to us to work with what we've been given |
| 18:28.55 | Leeds | pdr: :-( |
| 18:29.17 | Cope | I see. |
| 18:29.33 | Cope | So he that never changes has changed... ;) |
| 18:29.49 | Leeds | who said he never changes? |
| 18:29.56 | Cope | um - the bible. |
| 18:29.57 | Leeds | anyway, I'm not saying that he can't - just that he doesn't |
| 18:32.10 | Cope | Malachi 3:6 - I knew it was Malachi - just couldn't remember where. |
| 18:38.12 | Leeds | hmm... |
| 18:38.34 | Leeds | sorry... I'm still in a digicam quandry |
| 18:39.54 | Leeds | hence lack of answering |
| 18:40.12 | Leeds | I know my dad is quite keen on the concept of prayer as meditation |
| 18:43.29 | Cope | I think one of the most sensible teachings is that prayer changes the pray-er. |
| 18:44.26 | Leeds | right |
| 18:46.18 | Jang0 | God knew we were going to pray a specific prayer before time began, so it can easily follow that God is immutable as the Bible says |
| 18:47.24 | Jang0 | gotta go, got a rehearsal |
| 18:54.08 | Leeds | hmm... mdk buying connectiva |
| 18:54.18 | evangineer | ??? |
| 18:54.24 | Leeds | I guess unitedLinux did have some effect in the end |
| 18:54.39 | Leeds | evangineer: http://lwn.net/Articles/124957/ |
| 18:55.32 | evangineer | conectiva has done some good work over the years. |
| 18:56.12 | evangineer | they came up with apt-rpm which is now used on a number of distros. |
| 18:57.18 | evangineer | smartpm and lunatic python were done by the same conectiva hacker responsible for apt-rpm |
| 18:58.06 | Leeds | and, wasn't marcelo employed by them? |
| 18:59.09 | evangineer | yes, not sure if he still is though. |
| 18:59.33 | Leeds | I thought he went to foo - the well-known multiple-serial-port company... cyclades? |
| 19:00.08 | Leeds | yup |
| 19:00.24 | Leeds | so... I have a digicam quandry |
| 19:01.03 | Cope | you don't have a camera? |
| 19:01.44 | Leeds | I know I want a particular camera... John Lewis have it... a place in Stevenage have it for 20quid less, plus a free mini-tripod... I've told John Lewis and they're going to check it out, and they'll refund the difference if it fits their price-match rules |
| 19:01.53 | Leeds | I have a camera... I'm a hopeless consumer |
| 19:02.52 | Leeds | I would like to take it to FOSDEM... which really means getting it this evening so as to be able to charge it |
| 19:03.44 | Cope | are you at home? |
| 19:03.54 | Leeds | yes |
| 19:03.59 | Cope | ie you're not on the move at the moment. |
| 19:04.07 | Cope | ok well JL BX closes in an hour. |
| 19:04.15 | Leeds | I know |
| 19:04.41 | Cope | I would go to JL and close them - I will buy it NOW - here's my card... if its at THIS price. |
| 19:05.24 | Leeds | I phoned them - they said they'll check it, which will take at least a day or two - and assuming it matches their rules, which I think it does - they will drop their price, and give me a refund on the difference, at that point |
| 19:05.34 | Cope | If they say no, don't buy the camera! That mindset will make you a better closer, and they will believe you. |
| 19:05.58 | Cope | I think you will find if you turn up in person and speak to a manager they will do the price there and then. |
| 19:06.22 | Leeds | maybe... the problem is that I need proof it's available over-the-counter, in stock, and advertised at the lower price |
| 19:06.37 | Leeds | all I have is the other shop's website |
| 19:07.34 | Leeds | I spoke to them earlier - they said they had it in - and I went there, but missed them closing by a few minutes, so I know they're advertising that price in the window - but I wouldn't expect JL to just take my word for it |
| 19:08.10 | Cope | Well trust fate. |
| 19:08.19 | Leeds | and... we're back to religion :-) |
| 19:08.26 | Cope | Either that or just buy the damn thing at the full price - what's 20 quid? |
| 19:08.36 | Cope | if you want it that badly... |
| 19:08.39 | Leeds | it's a principle... but you're right, of course |
| 19:10.14 | Cope | So you've nothing to lose - go to JL, hassle them for the stevenage price; and then be prepared to not buy it, or buy it at the full price, depending on how you feel. |
| 19:10.14 | Leeds | it's the difference between the retail and online prices, in effect |
| 19:20.01 | Leeds | eh... you know as well as I do that I'm going down there now to buy it :-) |
| 20:32.29 | *** join/#gllug BobtheAvenger (Bob@dial81-131-179-205.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 20:32.44 | BobtheAvenger | hey |
| 20:32.58 | Leeds | morning dude |
| 20:33.18 | BobtheAvenger | mornin'? i'm in late |
| 20:33.34 | BobtheAvenger | how are you? |
| 20:34.35 | Leeds | not too bad - looking forward to tomorrow (afternoon) |
| 20:34.56 | BobtheAvenger | paycheck? |
| 20:35.06 | Leeds | fosdem |
| 20:35.15 | BobtheAvenger | cool |
| 20:41.47 | Cope | How would you begin to explain to a complete newbie (but decent with computers) what a relational DB is and why its cool? |
| 20:42.03 | Cope | and indeed why its useful in a wiki |
| 20:51.23 | BobtheAvenger | hey Cope |
| 21:02.00 | Cope | hello BobtheAvenger |
| 21:04.09 | *** join/#gllug mz2 (~mz@81-1-75-195.homechoice.co.uk) |
| 21:23.22 | *** join/#gllug BobtheAvenger (Bob@dial81-131-74-49.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 21:24.30 | BobtheAvenger | hey |
| 21:34.34 | *** join/#gllug JAV (~JAV@105.Red-80-34-40.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 21:35.05 | JAV | good evening |
| 21:37.42 | BobtheAvenger | hey JAV |
| 21:51.02 | Leeds | Cope: I personally think relational dbs are overused |
| 21:58.12 | Cope | Leeds: ok |
| 21:58.35 | zachary | Hobgoblin, mmmmmmmmmmmm. |
| 21:59.09 | Leeds | Cope: people have a whole 'persistant storage' = 'relational db' thing |
| 22:02.12 | Leeds | mmm... soup |
| 22:07.49 | Cope | what's the mediawiki license like? |
| 22:08.06 | Cope | I assume its not gpl as I don't see it anywhere in debian |
| 22:09.18 | Leeds | Cope: gpl according to the homepage |
| 22:09.31 | Leeds | "This is the homepage of the underlying open source wiki engine, MediaWiki, which is developed here on SourceForge via CVS, and is available under the GNU General Public License" |
| 22:09.59 | Cope | yeah just saw that |
| 22:10.10 | Cope | wonder why there's no debian maintainer |
| 22:11.59 | Cope | usually its for legal / licence reasons rather than lack of manpower |
| 22:12.49 | eye69 | Hobgoblin is disgusting...at least that's what I remember it to be. |
| 22:13.52 | zachary | Lets do a little taste comparison against MGD. |
| 22:19.55 | Cope | 487 days in preparation |
| 22:21.46 | Leeds | ? |
| 22:23.15 | *** join/#gllug mz2 (~mz@81-1-75-195.homechoice.co.uk) |
| 22:23.22 | Cope | mediawiki |
| 22:25.08 | Leeds | ah |
| 22:25.12 | Leeds | so quite a long time then... |
| 22:28.42 | Cope | rather |
| 22:37.45 | Leeds | question time... |