irclog2html for #gllug on 20050417

09:22.37*** join/#gllug mz2 (~mz2@81-1-67-97.homechoice.co.uk)
10:21.38*** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@host-212-158-207-148.bulldogdsl.com)
10:57.49formiby the way hiya!
11:00.02formidoes anyone know what's the name of a style of music that mixes hindu traditional music with deep drumming ?
11:58.25*** join/#gllug magnusth (~magnus@modem-1525.gazelle.dialup.pol.co.uk)
12:05.08magnusthAnyone in here who has anything to say about the combination tiny laptop and linux?
12:10.20formidefine tiny!
12:12.24magnusthtiny.com
12:13.08formiso not tiny as in really small?
12:13.28magnusthnope... actually it's more the price that's tiny
12:14.04formii would get a live cd of the distro you plan to run and head for the shop
12:16.30magnusthyeah, I've thought of that, and I will, what I worry about is the wifi
12:17.13magnusthfrom what I've understood support for wifi in Linux is somewhat spotty
12:17.49magnusthand there is a big chance my live-CD of choice (Ubuntu live) might not come with the needed drivers
12:18.25magnusthany tips on what I should look for, what info I need to find out if the chip is supported or not?
12:18.41formido you have a url for the specific model?
12:22.26magnusthhttp://laptops.tiny.com/computers/power_laptops/13342/61319/Tiny_Mediabook_MA64-3000+_1024
12:23.39formiDisplay - 15" XGA TFT Screen (1024 x 768)
12:23.52magnusthyes?
12:24.06formiyou will get tired of that resolution quite quickly
12:24.36formii have 15" 1600x1400 and would like more
12:25.09formido you plan to do much heavy duty compiling with it?
12:25.20magnusthwow, I've been thinking a little about it, but thought 1024x768 would be enough...
12:26.07formiI see no point in having such a powerfull machine with so little resolution
12:26.40magnusthanyway, we are drifting off the subject... no matter what laptop I choose off their site I wouldn't know if the wifi card is supported in Linux
12:26.53formimy Thinkpad a22p cost about £700 and it is more than enough
12:27.17formiyou can always add a pcmcia/carbus wifi card
12:27.58formido you live in London?
12:28.22magnusthnope, live in Cambridge
12:29.17formiI would suggest you look at Thinkpads or Toshibas
12:30.23magnusthyes, I've heard thinkpads are well supported under Linux, that's something you can confirm?
12:30.34formiyes
12:31.03formihttp://www.linux-laptop.net/
12:31.12magnusthwhere can I find a good online source for technical specs of IBMs?
12:31.47magnusthI haven't come across a22p before, only T and R
12:32.50formiibm.com/uk
12:33.40magnusthnothing about A series there, only R T and X :(
12:35.14formihttp://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-4UVKVX
12:36.25formiin my case it came with 512Mb Ram and a DVD-CDRW combo, no wireless though
12:37.18formibe back in 5min, I need to reboot my gateway
12:41.24*** join/#gllug formi (~formi@82-35-34-193.cable.ubr01.camd.blueyonder.co.uk)
12:43.27magnusthI've been looking through the IBM pages again, and only one R series has support for 1400x1050 (highest res), and it's listed at 1050 pungs :(
12:43.32magnusthpounds I mean
12:44.12formithe R series are the cheapest, biggest in size
12:45.00formithe T23s and T30s are nice, and they have 1400x1050, at least the ones we have at work
12:46.50formithere are some shops that specialize on brand new "no longer sold directly by ibm" laptops
12:47.22formione of them is Shyamtronics in TCR London, that is where get our laptops from
12:47.55magnusthhmm, sounds like something worth checking out, because the ones on the IBM pages are quite  a bit over the budget I've set for myself
12:48.30formiwhat are you going to use the laptop for?
12:49.55magnusthhome use, networking, programming, so I've decided on 512Megs and 60-80G disk
12:50.10formii have a Thinpad 570 wich is a P2 366 with 192Ram with FreeBSD running on it and it is quite snappy
12:50.35formieverything on it is compiled locally
12:51.29formicompiling firefox is about 4 hours
12:51.44formibut i leave it running overnight
12:52.52magnusthoh yeah? and what do you use it for?
12:54.41formiweb browsing, software testing, ssh to servers, irc
12:55.14magnusthwhat window manager do you use?
12:58.48formifluxbox
13:01.45magnusthyou also mentinoed Toshiba before, do you have experience with them as well?
13:03.52forminot personally
13:04.05formibut I have seen a log gllug people using them
13:04.18formis/log/lot of
13:04.25gregjbloody, bluetooth is damn slow
13:04.35magnusthah, and they are happy with them?
13:04.44formithey seem to be
13:04.47rhowewe bought a couple at work
13:04.54rhoweTecra M2 and A2
13:05.19rhoweThe A2 was physically rather large and felt a bit more tacky than the M2
13:05.29magnusthI was just looking at a m35x-s149
13:12.50*** join/#gllug magnusth_ (~magnus@modem-3705.giraffe.dialup.pol.co.uk)
13:26.11*** part/#gllug magnusth_ (~magnus@modem-3705.giraffe.dialup.pol.co.uk)
13:30.10*** join/#gllug magnusth (~magnus@modem-3705.giraffe.dialup.pol.co.uk)
13:30.26magnusthformi, sorry for the sudden disappearance
13:31.12magnusthI do need to take a look at the network setup here, I guess.. or maybe I should just take a shortcut and blame the windows machine I'm using :)
13:31.29magnusththanks for your suggestions/advice/thoughts
13:32.28magnusthI think I'll be able to do a bit more of a guided search now, thanks!
13:32.53*** part/#gllug magnusth (~magnus@modem-3705.giraffe.dialup.pol.co.uk)
14:08.46JAVgood evening
14:08.51JAVerr
14:08.54JAVafternoon
14:08.54JAV:D
16:02.30*** join/#gllug ability (~haywood@host81-154-101-14.range81-154.btcentralplus.com)
16:57.39Leedswhy bother?
17:04.20Leedsrhowe: so, would you consider £319.10 for a direct return to HK on VIrgin to be good?
17:08.30rhoweLeeds: including taxes?
17:08.35Leedsyes
17:08.38rhoweyes
17:08.48rhoweIs that without using any of your air miles or anything?
17:08.50Leedsyes
17:09.01Leedsunfortunately it's no good for me :-(  maximum stay 1 month
17:09.01rhoweI've never flown for under 400 quid including taxes
17:09.18rhoweOnce it cost me 680
17:09.44rhoweThat was flying to HK and back from Shanghai though
17:09.59rhoweIn the summer
17:10.11Leeds£503.10 is the price they're quoting for the 2-month trip
17:10.34rhoweSounds more reasonable for a last minute booking
17:10.41rhowe(3 weeks is pretty last minute :)
17:11.00rhowewhat dates are you after
17:11.01rhowe?
17:11.13LeedsI;m contemplating spending the extra to get a premium economy seat
17:11.35Leedseither one includes more than enough miles to get a one-step, one-sector upgrade
17:12.00Leedsapproximately 5th May to 3rd July - but the return should be flexible or at least cheap to change
17:13.04Leedspremium economy return is about £1300
17:15.31rhowegot a Quantas one here for 294 + tax
17:15.44rhowereturn within 12 months
17:15.58Leedsdirect?
17:16.30rhoweProbably
17:16.41rhoweVirgin is showing 424 + taxes for 12 month ticket
17:16.53rhoweQantas Airways
17:16.53rhoweoffers non-stop service
17:16.55rhoweYup
17:17.59rhoweThey don't fly from London on Thursday 5th though
17:18.07rhoweThey do fly Friday, however
17:18.28rhowehmm.. not showing return as possible in July
17:18.40Leedsare you looking on their site?
17:18.59rhowetravelocity
17:19.02Leedsah
17:19.18rhoweI said "show me the fares between May and July"
17:19.31Leedsthing is, I've sort of bouoght into the whole loyalty thing - I like Virgin, and I like collecting their points ;-)
17:19.49rhoweWell Quantas isn't an option anyhow :)
17:20.11Leedsand I quite like the idea that I can get something between economy and business/first for a vaguely affordable price
17:20.58rhoweWell, I'll get to Virgin in a mo :)
17:21.03rhoweFor Cathay, it's saying:
17:21.11rhoweThu, 05 May
17:21.12rhowe12:45 Depart - London Heathrow, UK (LHR)
17:21.31rhowe(there were 2 other options for departing London, later in the day(
17:21.32rhoweFri, 06 May
17:21.33rhowe08:00 Arrive - Hong Kong (HKG)
17:21.39rhoweSun, 03 Jul
17:21.45rhowe15:20 Depart - Hong Kong (HKG)
17:21.46rhowe21:05 Arrive - London Heathrow, UK (LHR)
17:21.53rhowe(no other options for coming back on that day)
17:21.59LeedsI think I prefer the later departure...
17:22.01rhoweTotal Price   = GBP  481.10
17:23.00rhowe1825 (arr. 1320) or 22:35 (arr. 1735)
17:23.11Leeds1825 sounds better
17:23.16rhoweI don't think it affects the price or anything
17:23.46rhowesame return flight offered as an option
17:24.12Leedsthe return is largely irrelevent, since I don't know when I'd be wanting to return - could well be earlier or later
17:24.34rhoweOK, same price for that option
17:24.57rhowe<PROTECTED>
17:25.07rhowe<PROTECTED>
17:25.33Leedsthat's fair enough - I think I'm going to want to come back sooner or later, even if it's just to pack up my flat and go back :-)
17:25.34rhowe<PROTECTED>
17:25.34rhoweRe-routing after departure is not permitted
17:25.49rhoweI wonder how they enforce no cancellations? :)
17:25.55rhoweDrag you onto the plane, perhaps?
17:26.08LeedsI assume it means no refunds rather than no cancellations
17:26.52rhowehm, session cancelled on travelocity
17:27.03LeedsI was tempted to get the cheap Virgin return and treat it as a single - just buy another single (or even a return in the other direction if I was coming back to the UK then returning to HK a few weeks later)
17:27.31rhoweit usually costs more to buy a ticket in HK to come to the UK than it does to buy a ticket in the UK to go to HK
17:28.11rhoweTime to give Virgin a shot
17:28.30LeedsI get my redundancy pay about a week before I'd be travelling out... :-)
17:28.40*** join/#gllug stephanb (~stef@dsl-80-44-196-205.access.as9105.com)
17:28.56rhoweFlight:  Virgin Atlantic flight 200  on a Airbus Jet - non-stop
17:28.56rhoweDepart:  London Heathrow, UK (LHR) - Thu, 05 May at 22:30
17:28.57rhoweArrive:  Hong Kong (HKG) - Fri, 06 May at 17:50
17:28.59stephanbhello everybody
17:29.11stephanbi have (yet again) a stupid question :-)
17:29.14LeedsI could just travel economy for free - using miles - but it seems pointless
17:29.19rhoweFlight:  Virgin Atlantic flight 201  on a Airbus Jet - non-stop
17:29.19rhoweDepart:  Hong Kong (HKG) - Sun, 03 Jul at 23:25
17:29.22rhoweArrive:  London Heathrow, UK (LHR) - Mon, 04 Jul at 05:25
17:29.27Leedsstephanb: what do you know about cheap/posh flights from London to Hong Kong? :-)
17:29.41stephanbwhat is the point of dual-layer DVD-writer ?
17:29.52rhowe<PROTECTED>
17:30.09Leedsdo you know what the difference is between single-layer and dual-layer writers?  or is that what you're asking?
17:30.12Leedsrhowe: inc. tax?
17:30.22rhoweLeeds: Yep. taxes are 56 quid
17:30.27rhowe429 ex. tax
17:30.33Leedshttp://www.v-flyer.com/ is interesting
17:31.30Leedswould it be fair to assume that flights to HK would have their advanced entertainment system?  it's pretty good...
17:31.45rhowehm.. I think so
17:32.13LeedsI could always call Virgin and ask?
17:32.15rhowefare restrictions are pretty much the same as the cathay one
17:32.17Leedsstephanb: ?
17:32.27rhoweLeeds: It depends on the plane, more than anything, I think
17:32.37LeedsI'm happy to pay £50 to change as long as there's decent availability
17:34.09rhoweit didn't mention a change fee
17:34.19rhoweah, changes not permitted
17:34.21rhowe<PROTECTED>
17:35.18Leedsyeah, that could be a problem
17:35.52rhoweAll Virgin flights 200 have a v:port
17:36.00rhowewhich is the decent entertainment system
17:36.23Leedsvflyer has a "which plane will be on my route and what entertainment system will it have?" page :-)
17:36.34rhoweyep :)
17:36.49rhoweand the same for all flights returning from HK (flight 201)
17:36.53Leedsit's a good site
17:37.10Leedsyeah - the flights to/from Boston didn't have v:port - I was quite suprised and disappointed
17:38.20rhowehttp://www.v-flyer.com/codes.asp?click=12
17:39.20Leedsyup - as I said, it's a good site
17:40.05rhowehaha
17:40.14rhowe"P - Used by some airlines as a First Class Premium fare. (ouch, that'll be expensive)."
17:40.32LeedsR :-(
17:40.35rhowelol - "R
17:40.37rhoweOriginally Supersonic - now Discount Economy "
17:41.08Leedshence the :-(
17:41.22rhoweyeah
17:42.09rhowehttp://www.v-flyer.com/vtool.asp?click=85
17:42.13rhoweo.O
17:43.27Leedshmm... I don't recall seeing the Linux version when I read most of the site a few weeks ago, but it's possible I assumed there wasn't one
17:43.40rhoweIn the link to the page, it just talks about Mac and Windows
17:43.44Leedsah
17:43.46rhoweBut on the page itself, it mentions Linux
17:45.07Leedsit's gtk
17:46.00Leedsbut how they manage to end up with a 7.5Mb monolithic dynamic binary I don't know
17:46.31*** join/#gllug stephanb (~stef@dsl-80-44-221-93.access.as9105.com)
17:47.59rhowelooks like the images are big
17:48.11rhoweScrolling around the seat plan is *slow*
17:53.14Leedsstill a good site...
18:05.24rhowewtf?!
18:05.50rhoweGBP313 inc. tax to HK in June
18:06.07rhoweThose fares better be there at the end of the month
18:06.24rhoweIf so, I may well be going to HK in June
18:06.43rhowe257 plus tax is nuts
18:08.14rhowecrazy thing is, Virgin are cheaper than anyone else
18:24.55*** join/#gllug ikea (ikea@ruggigt.hemlig.net)
18:29.08*** join/#gllug mz2 (~mz2@81-1-67-97.homechoice.co.uk)
18:33.07*** part/#gllug stephanb (~stef@dsl-80-44-221-93.access.as9105.com)
18:55.05Leedsrhowe: the current cheap fares end tomorrow
18:55.22Leedsthat is, you've got to book them before midnight tomorrow night
19:23.08rhoweLeeds: This one didn't have that restriction AFAIK
19:25.00rhoweah, "
19:25.00rhowe
19:25.05rhowe"The ticket must be issued no later than 21APR05"
19:26.32rhoweheh
19:26.46Leedswell, if you're in HK in June, get in touch :-)
19:26.49rhowewell, there are other airlines besides Virgin without such silly restrictions
19:26.57rhoweSince that fare is likely to be in N class, where you don't earn miles..
19:26.58Leedsfor that price?
19:27.02rhoweYes
19:27.04rhoweMany
19:27.21LeedsI think my plan is to pay for a premium seat and try to buy an upgrade with points
19:27.51Leedslet's say BUPA are paying...
19:28.20rhoweheh
19:30.59Leedsbut I need to wait a day or two for my c/c to cycle
19:31.08Leedswell, don't *need* - want
19:31.15rhoweWell there's Virgin (prices higher when I come to book - may be too much), Air France (heard bad things about lost luggage), KLM (not an enjoyable flight last time), BA (inflight entertainment sucks), Lufthansa (not tried), Quantas (Sarah said they were OK), Cathay (expensive by the time I come to book, most likely), Finnair, Srilankan Airlines, Swissair, Aeroflot, Emirates (quite liked last time), then it gets above 400+tax
19:31.37rhoweOnly Virgin, BA, Cathay and Quantas fly direct
19:31.43rhoweThough I don't mind a stopover
19:31.50LeedsCathay were very nice when I flew with them last time
19:31.58rhoweYes, they are. I like Cathay
19:32.12LeedsI would avoid Aeroflot unless - and possibly even if - someone was pointing a gun at my head
19:32.53rhoweMy first choices for flying to HK would be Cathay or Virgin (about equal, I'd say), Emirates, and for ones I haven't tried Singapore Airlines or Quantas
19:33.00rhoweBA I'm pretty indifferent about
19:33.07rhoweI dunno, Aeroflot sounds fun :)
19:33.16rhoweA stopover in Moscow could be interesting
19:33.16Leedsbeen there, done it
19:33.38LeedsI like Virgin - like the service, seats, particularly the entertainment, and the points :-)
19:33.54rhoweI never fly in a class that earns any points to speak of :P
19:34.05rhoweI've never been able to claim air miles
19:34.39LeedsI've been collecting virgin points on work trips for the past few years, plus I got a Virgin c/c which gives me 1 mile/£ and I've got a few points in a hotel scheme which I can transfer over
19:34.59rhoweI get one Air Mile (from the Air Miles people) for every 20 quid I spend on the CC :P
19:35.03Leedsibot change 4864 hkd to gbp
19:35.15rhoweI've actually earnt more air miles by buying things than I have by flying\
19:36.34Leedswell, in the past year I've earned over 22k miles from points, and I certainly haven't spent that much on my c/c :-)
19:36.40Leedsmiles from flying, that is
19:37.39Leedsthing is, taking the premium flight gives me about 18k miles just from the flight, another 1.3k from the c/c paying for it, and I don't think that includes the 1.5k bonus for booking online
19:38.27rhoweCan't say I've ever booked online either ;)
19:38.34rhoweTravel agents have always found me slightly better fares
19:38.55LeedsI've just assumed that's not been the case for years
19:40.51rhoweHad good experiences with both the company travel agent (who you call, tell what you want and they call back later)
19:40.58rhoweand the flight centre is pretty good
19:41.10LeedsI no longer have a company travel agent :-)
19:41.43Leedsand the one time I've tried the flight centre, BA's website beat them
19:42.00rhoweYes, BA's website is pretty good
19:42.30rhoweI'm still suprised that they were allowed to register a 2 letter domain
19:43.13Leedsthey probably got it before the rules were put in place
19:43.37Leedsyeah, 1993 :-)
19:45.19rhoweBA say 343 quid for a trip in June
19:45.21rhoweall in
19:45.51rhoweOh well, I'll take another look at the end of the month and make a choice then
19:46.04rhoweAdvantage of a visit in June is that for once, Sarah won't be at uni and she shouldn't yet be working
19:47.16rhowenow, is 4 quid a bit much for postage for a HD
19:47.40Leedsno
19:49.39rhowehttp://tinyurl.com/dfl78
19:49.44rhoweDo I bid, or do I not?
19:50.05rhoweI actually want a 2G one, but nobody seems to be selling
19:50.21rhoweIt's not even sold as working
19:50.34Leedsif it works, buy it
19:50.46LeedsI would say it's implied that it's working unless mentioned otherwise
19:54.04rhowehm, well there are no better offers on ebay price+postage-wise
19:59.06rhoweHimalaya is up for a BAFTA?
19:59.06rhoweIsn't it 20 years old?
20:08.01Leedshuh
20:08.02Leeds?
20:09.56rhoweHimalaya, the TV programme
20:09.59rhoweIsn't it old?
20:10.31Leedsnot *that* old, no
20:10.57rhowehm, it just looked like it was made in the 80's
20:11.19LeedsOctober 2004 according to tvtome
20:12.00LeedsI don't think he was doing travelogues in the 80s
20:12.25rhoweReally? I didn't realise it was done recently. Thought it was a rerun
20:12.29rhowe"The Flying Pasty had an email from one of our party members Matthew Canning, a.k.a Count Punkula II, our Shadow Minister for the reduction of cheese-related accidents"
20:13.32Leedsah, 1989 was his first, according to imdb
20:13.46LeedsI love living in a world with that sort of useless information to hand :-)
20:15.38rhowehttp://omrlp.brinkster.net/Manicfesto2005.asp
20:17.14Leeds"Any Home Secretary claiming to have more children than necessary will be made to run the House Of Commons Crèche. "
20:18.20rhowe" Bright pupils will be provided with dimmer switches to prevent them distracting the rest of the class. "
20:18.58rhowe"The number 13 will be abolished due to its longstanding unpopularity. The bus to Acton North will now not have a number on it but not much else will be affected. Therefore if you see a bus with no number on it, it will be going to Acton North. Please remember this for future reference."
20:18.58Leedsand so on :-)
20:20.54rhowehaha I love the policy for stopping congestion
20:22.01Leedsheh
20:22.19rhowe"Drivers will be allowed to drive over roundabouts when there’s nothing about. This will make driving through Milton Keynes much more fun."
20:22.46Leedsdon't suppose you know where to get a tachnuke?  we really need to do something about jamster
20:23.02rhowejamster?
20:23.13Leedsaka Fucking Annoying Fucking Ringtone Fuckers Ltd.
20:28.20rhoweOh :)
20:30.55*** join/#gllug AndrewBlack (~chatzilla@81.2.66.249)
20:54.40Leedsmmm... good soup
20:55.02rhowemm, bacon sandwiches
20:55.30rhoweibot change 5 gbp to usd
20:56.04ikeaibot change 100 usd to sek
20:56.17Leedsevening ikea :-)
20:56.26ikeaevening
21:08.52*** join/#gllug BobtheAvenger (Bob@dial81-131-69-125.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
21:09.03BobtheAvengerhey pplz
21:09.18BobtheAvengeribot hey
21:09.19ibothey is, like, almost for horses
21:09.26BobtheAvenger:D
21:09.35Leedsevening bob
21:09.46BobtheAvengerhey, long time no speek
21:10.17Leedstrue
21:10.17BobtheAvengerdid i miss nefin?
21:10.21Leedshow's life?
21:10.39BobtheAvengerlife is life like
21:10.43BobtheAvengerhowz u?
21:11.04Leedsooh, complicated
21:11.51BobtheAvengerwhats complicated
21:12.15Leedslife
21:12.32Leedstoday, I'm unemployed
21:12.36BobtheAvengerhas it eva not been?
21:12.46Leedsthe latest plan is for me to look into working in Hong Kong and Sri Lanka for a while
21:12.55BobtheAvengerkwl
21:13.20Leedswhat?
21:13.26BobtheAvengerwhat what?
21:13.36Leedskwl?
21:13.44Leedswhat is kwl?  kowloon?
21:13.46BobtheAvenger#define kwl cool
21:14.14Leedsah... back to the txt-speak, are we? :-)
21:14.25BobtheAvengerback?
21:14.32BobtheAvengeri neva stopped
21:14.56Leedseva, neva?
21:15.02Leedscome on... :-)
21:15.07BobtheAvengerever never
21:16.23BobtheAvengerdid i miss anything?
21:16.36Leedsdunno - I've been away for most of the last week
21:16.55BobtheAvengeri been away most of a while
21:17.15BobtheAvengeribot beer
21:17.16ibotit has been said that beer is ummm, ummm good!, or good for you!
21:17.32BobtheAvenger:D
21:17.49Leedsyou've been drunk for weeks?
21:18.27BobtheAvengerno, but there are some blank spots im my memory, which i fink r beer related
21:18.53Leedsibot memtest
21:18.54ibotsomebody said memtest was http://www.memtest86.com/ . Also check out http://rick.vanrein.org/linux/badram/
21:19.14BobtheAvengeribot BobtheAvenger
21:19.15iboti guess bobtheavenger is new around these parts, or really Bruce, or inteligent, or claiming to not be on drugs, or not, or smoking crack.  NOT ON DRUGS
21:20.00BobtheAvengergood memory
21:20.19Leedsibot memory
21:20.21ibotThe memory smacks of usage!
21:20.37BobtheAvengeribot kill homework
21:20.39ibotACTION shoots a charged  electron gun at homework
21:21.06BobtheAvengeri missed ibot
21:22.26BobtheAvengerping: me
21:25.40BobtheAvengerwheres everyone?>
21:28.25BobtheAvengerpeace
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