irclog2html for #gllug on 20050418

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08:14.03mozratGood Morning
08:14.31*** join/#gllug mozrat-pl (~mozrat@80.68.89.215)
08:15.17mozratGood morning
08:34.00*** join/#gllug Jang- (~Jango@pacemetrics.plus.com)
08:39.18mozratmoin Jang-
08:44.12*** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@host-212-158-207-148.bulldogdsl.com)
08:45.11Jang-mornin
08:45.47mozrathey Jang- Leeds
08:46.00Leedsmorning mozzie, Jang-
09:28.40rhoweibot change 148 usd to gbp
09:28.53eye69Morning.
09:28.53rhowemornin'
09:29.16rhoweibot change 197 usd to gbp
09:39.09*** join/#gllug mz2 (~mz2@81-1-67-97.homechoice.co.uk)
09:45.43*** join/#gllug pdr (~pdr@213.86.35.150)
10:43.19Leedsrhowe: so does that hd work?
10:44.26Leedshmm... adobe buying macromedia
10:46.51pdrLeeds: i may be oop north this coming weekend
10:47.54Leedspdr: me too...
10:48.40Leedsbut I'll be doing religious/family stuff, at least in the evenings, and not eating/drinking out much during the day...
11:01.31pdrif i go, i'll be quite busy.  staying in liverpool, but i hope to be able to go visit the Round Table at some stage
11:01.39Leedsround table?
11:01.46pdrKing Arthur and that
11:01.50Leedsanyway, I'll be pretty firmly in Leeds
11:02.02pdrit's up in the middle of Anglia
11:02.12Leedsdoesn't sound very north to me :-)
11:02.25pdrnear Windermere ish
11:02.31pdrthat's fairly far north :-)
11:02.45Leedsah, was thinking east angular
11:02.54pdri might have to pick something up from leeds on the way back to london, so if i do, i'll give you a call
11:03.15pdrsorry, did i mean northumbria (i always get those confused)?
11:28.40wethrinfoo
12:20.03rhoweLeeds: The guy said he hasn't tested, but will happily refund if not
12:29.42pdri like how places are getting customers to do their qa now
12:30.08wethrinpdr: Windermere isn't Northumbria
12:30.52wethrinAssuming you mean the Lake District
12:31.10pdri was looking at it this morning and i swear the national heritage book said either anglia or northumbria
12:31.17wethrinCumbria?
12:31.29pdroh yeah, could have been that one then
12:31.33pdryeah, lake district
12:31.46pdris that an angle settlement too then?
12:31.48wethrinThat's West Coast
12:31.51wethrinProbably
12:31.52pdryep
12:32.14wethrinCome to Durham :)
12:32.21pdrcould do
12:32.35pdrthat's a bit more of a detour tho
12:33.02pdrit'll be sunday if i do come, but probably won't be able to know before then
12:33.10wethrinOh
12:33.14wethrinThis Sunday? I can't do that, then
12:33.22pdroh ok
12:33.33pdrwhatchya up to then?
12:33.48wethrinI'll be in York.
12:34.07pdrwell that's less of a detour!
12:34.25wethrinRandom-IRC-meeting thing
12:34.29wethrinInvolving, hopefully, booze
12:36.11pdrsounds like fun
12:36.39pdri hope for your sake they know of pubs open on sundays
12:41.07wethrinNo idea
12:41.10wethrinMost are, I think
12:41.27wethrinI think Central London is about the only place with weekend-closing pubs
12:42.41Leedssunday lunch at the pub is traditional
12:44.42wethrinIndeed it is
12:44.56wethrinI hear there are some wrong people who don't like curry, though
12:45.44Leedswell they are wrong people and hence their opinion doesn't count
12:48.54JAVgood afternoon
12:50.29wethrinIndeed
12:54.18pdri thought there was a law that only allowed pubs to open for a limited number of hours on a sunday
12:54.42wethrinNope
12:54.48wethrinUntil 10.30pm
13:01.25*** join/#gllug highbury (~chatzilla@81.1.87.90)
13:01.37highburyhi guys
13:02.19wethrinhi
13:02.26highburymy keyboard just seems to have stopped working, it works in single-user mode, but when kdm fires up, it wont accept any keystrokes
13:03.02wethrinSounds like a software problem, then
13:10.09highbury:-)
13:10.33highburyI fired up kubuntu and the keyboard works fine
13:16.05*** join/#gllug itsbruce (~brichards@router-office.fotango.com)
13:16.33highburywhat is this /.dev in ubuntu?
13:17.03itsbruceThat'll be udev, most likely
13:17.43itsbruceDebian creates a ramdisk for udev and then rebinds it to /dev, so as not to erase the orginal contents
13:18.34highburythey haven't updated firefox to 1.03 yet
13:18.58itsbruceOverkill imho.  If you use a traditional fs, udev dies or you remove it, then the fs stays in the last state udev left it in.  No big issue.
13:19.32itsbruceBut it allows Debian to boot from a read-only root partition.
13:19.39highburymeanwhile, I need to work out why my keyboard has stopped working under SuSE 9.1+KDE 3.4
13:33.45highburymust be something broken in X config
13:46.31highburyhmm fired up to run mode 3, ran startx and it seems to work, lets try a plain reboot
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16:30.27SuSeManhi all
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16:48.19mozratHello??? SuSeMan??? I couldn't answer in less than 60 seconds
16:50.14*** join/#gllug Numz (~Numz@82-35-18-215.cable.ubr03.hari.blueyonder.co.uk)
16:50.30Leedsmozrat: you suck then
16:51.42mozratLeeds: yes :(
16:52.35rhowewhiskey tango foxtrot?! 17:21 [Undernet] -!- ERROR Closing Link: rhowe by Amsterdam.NL.EU.undernet.org (G-lined ([0] infected! Advertising infecting web sites. Clean this computer! http://www.moosoft.com http://housecall.trendmicro.com/))
16:53.13eye69I got shafted too.
16:53.48rhoweApparently Undernet is finished anyway
16:54.03murbi thought it had been finished for years!
16:54.07rhoweLots of opers have lost their O: lines, apparently as a way to reduce the number of DDoSes
16:54.44rhoweI can't see how reducing the number of police can help, and I know at least one person who did a hell of a lot to take down botnets and get their hosts reported. He even had automated scripts which he used to report abuse
16:55.06eye69My towns channel has been live and kicking for years.
16:55.28murbif running an ircnet is so much work, why bother?
16:56.19rhowe*shrug* I guess some were just attached to it
16:56.35rhoweUndernet's #java is actually quite good at times
16:59.51eye69Most of my time gets taken up by Freenode and Quakenet.
17:00.52rhoweMost of my time gets taken up by work :/
17:01.13eye69Most of my IRC time, that is.
17:01.38rhoweIRC I mostly spend here and Undernet #linux, although if I stay G-lined, I can't see me spending much time there
17:07.58rhoweooh, Freeciv 2.0 out
17:08.11Leedsindeed
17:08.13rhoweAnd with a stunning new feature that might actually mean I can play it! " - New difficulty level: Novice.  It severely handicaps the AI players."
17:08.32rhoweI was constantly defeated even on 'easy' before :)
17:08.42Leedsyeah, they're a bit good...
17:09.29rhoweI'm usually roaming around with legions and chariots while they have musketeers :)
17:09.33LeedsI think it's their topsy-turvy way of going for the usual open source "it's really meant to be a multi-player game" thing - except that normally that's done by having no AI or a useful one, not one which beats the shit out of you
17:09.37*** join/#gllug ar (~ar@82.152.153.79)
17:09.50Leedsmorning ar
17:09.55rhowes/they/the AI/
17:10.12rhoweI like the idea of "Fewer popups" too
17:10.38Leedsyes, it had too many
17:10.54rhoweAnd it's GTK2. mmm
17:11.15rhoweooh, and ALSA
17:11.18Leedsthe two problems I've had with it in the past were not letting me just hit return to end a turn, and tickling a bug in the graphics driver which reliably kills the x server... just a minor issue
17:11.55rhoweheh
17:12.13rhoweI've never had it kill the X server, but then again I just use Debian sid's X, not X.org or anything fancy
17:12.28rhoweEnter usually works for me when it comes to ending a turn
17:12.36Leedsoh, I can turn off a render option to make it reliable
17:12.39murbLeeds: toolate.
17:12.56rhoweI wonder if they have an 'undo' feature to let you say "oops, I didn't mean to move there"
17:13.01murbwelcome to the land of the disenfranised
17:13.12Leedsmurb: really?
17:13.13rhoweheh, not sure I'm even on the electoral roll
17:13.21rhoweIf I am, it won't be in Catford, that's for sure
17:13.33Leedsthe election is Thursday, right?
17:13.50rhoweThe day you go to HK, yes
17:13.55murba thurday yes.
17:13.55rhowe5th
17:14.02rhowe5/5, even
17:14.11murbLeeds: i got a thing about my posal vote for eu elections nought about national ones :(
17:14.17Leedswell, if I'm on a 2230 flight, I might just be able to make the poll :-)
17:14.18Leedsrhowe: 5/5/5
17:14.44rhoweLeeds: Indeed
17:14.49murband i posted my forms easily in time for the deadline, seems they put them in apile and didn't open them until safly after the line.
17:15.20murbI thought the tories increased the voting from outside the uk from 5 to 20 years because they thought it would help them more?
17:15.35rhowehm, Nildram need to send their engineers on spelling courses
17:15.55murbPipex.
17:16.02rhowe"Due to the BT outage we suffered over the weekend which knocked out 8 of our LTS's, our central pipes are still out of balance. [...] in order to eleviate this we urgently need to remove some users from some of our LNS's"
17:16.14rhowemurb: ah, yes, Pipex
17:16.23Leeds"The deadline for applying to vote by post in the May 2005 elections is 26 April. "
17:16.24rhowemurb: http://www.siksai.co.uk/gallery/xianlu
17:16.39murbLeeds: oh i guess it is different for over seas voters then.
17:16.49Leedsaboutmyvote.co.uk is a rather good site about voting
17:16.49rhowemurb: My wireless DSL router and AP is almost ready to go. I just need to get PPPoA working with the Bewan card
17:16.50murbLeeds: if i'm still on the uk role maybe i could apply for a posal vote as well!
17:16.59murbLeeds: does it have auctions?
17:17.16Leedsup to and including giving you a custom pdf of the postal vote application form pre-printed with the address of the local office
17:17.29murbLeeds: neat!
17:17.39Leedsmurb: electoral commission - no auctions! :-)
17:17.48rhoweThere's some funky stuff for Apache to do with online PDF generation, isn't there? Avalon or something?
17:18.02murbI should email the high wycombe electoral officer again and ask if i can register for a uk postal vote.
17:18.03LeedsI suspect it's static, just served dynamically...
17:18.09murbeven though i registered outside the uk.
17:18.09rhoweISTR someone on the Gllug list mentioning it
17:18.29murbif that registration isn't in time why shouldn't i still vote?
17:18.40murbI dunno if i'll even get poll card, when do they send them?
17:18.52Leedsmurb: you can have the voting card sent anywhere, to aid in fraud - as long as you're on the roll in the UK you should be able to get a card and send it in
17:18.53murb(I can't be in the uk that thursday though 'cos i have school)
17:19.25murbLeeds: i'm wondering if they'll have removed me from one roll and not added me to the overseas one yet..
17:19.27Leeds"If you would like to change any existing postal vote details, the deadline is 19 April."
17:19.35Leedshow quick can you be? :-)
17:19.49murbLeeds: Well i applied for it already.
17:19.55murbLeeds: how quick can they be?
17:20.13murbsince they took 2 weeks to proccess the eu part of my form.
17:20.45murbmaybe they don't send acks for the other sections, just the eu bit, but that doesn't seem to be plausable.
17:20.57murbin 7 days i can register to vote in local elections here.
17:49.25Leedsfsck on a mounted but readonly filesystem - dumb or not?
17:49.36wethrinNot overly
17:50.07Leedshmm...
17:50.16Leedsfuck it
17:50.38wethrinNo. That's generally not a good idea to do to filesystems
17:50.49Leedswell... fsck it then
17:50.56wethrinYes
17:50.57wethrin:)
17:51.11Leedsbadblocks it first
17:51.18wethrinmm
17:52.36Leedsby the way, has anyone seen or heard from cope since I kicked him about a month ago?
17:54.04wethrinHm. I saw him about 3 weeks back
17:56.02Leedsgood
17:59.05wethrinHe's most likely busy being a family man
17:59.33Leedssure
18:09.18*** join/#gllug Numz (~Numz@82-35-18-215.cable.ubr03.hari.blueyonder.co.uk)
18:32.44LeedsFUCKING FUCKING SHITTY ARSING QMAIL CRAP!
18:33.06LeedsHOW THE FUCK DO I KILL THE BASTARD?
18:33.21Leedsit's like a fucking hydra - you kill 6 or 7 of the processes and they just restart
18:33.23*** join/#gllug Numz (~Numz@82-35-18-215.cable.ubr03.hari.blueyonder.co.uk)
18:34.20LeedsARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
18:34.30arisn't there stuff under /service ?
18:34.48Leedsdon't know, don't care, just want to kill the fucker
18:35.11Leedsit has no place on unix - it's a piece of absolute crap
18:35.13arthere is a process that checks its running and restarts - try /servive or /var/service
18:35.21Leedskilled them - they restart!
18:35.42stephenLeeds: tried something along the lines of http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/11097 ?
18:36.31Leedsyes, of course I have
18:36.44stephenjust checking :)
18:37.04Leedsyeah, thanks :-)
18:38.07arwhile true; do pkill -9 qmail; done;   :)))
18:38.50ardo you have a /service directory btw?
18:38.56Leedsthat's the fucking problem - it doesn't have a process called qmail (as a sensible unix system would) - it has lots of random processes restarting each other
18:38.59Leedsyes, I have /service
18:39.29arsvscan monitors that directory for stuff to start
18:39.53LeedsI've tried to kill scascan
18:39.54ari'm not sure of the 'correct' way to stop it, but rm /service/qmail is probably a good start
18:39.56Leedssvscan
18:40.11LeedsI just want to shut the fucker down!
18:41.29LeedsI really hate fighting for control of my own machine... that's how malware behaves
18:42.34Leedsthanks anyway
18:42.36aryou need to kill off svscan first, i'd remove the binary and start the killing
18:43.37arhttp://cr.yp.to/daemontools/svscan.html  <--- apparently its designed to run forever.
18:44.58Leedssome stupid fucker put the fucking piece of shit into inittab!
18:44.58arwhat was it?
18:45.03arlol
18:45.06stephenheh
18:45.21Leedsyou do *not* put individual servers into inittab!
18:45.39arwas qmail there or the svscan?
18:46.05Leedsit's gone
18:46.07Leedssvscan
18:51.06arare you going to be replacing qmail then?
18:51.18Leedsthat's a complex question
18:51.34Leedsthe short answer is yes... the longer answer is... longer
18:58.44*** join/#gllug highbury (~steve@81.1.87.90)
18:59.22highburyhmm most curious
18:59.50highburyI stopped xdm/kdm auto starting, rebooted started manually and now my keyboard is working again
19:00.15highburyhowever if I let it autostart my keyboard doesn't work
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19:04.57*** part/#gllug highbury_ (~chatzilla@81.1.87.90)
19:05.48highburydamned pretender!
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20:19.21*** join/#gllug rhowe (rhowe@xiao.siksai.co.uk)
20:20.24JAVgood evening
20:20.42JAVhttp://dev.gentoo.org/~lewk/img/vim.gif
20:27.36arwhy are html/xml comments asymmetric?
21:03.40rhoweheh whoops
21:03.52rhoweme just washed his pedometer
21:04.38Leedsoopsie
21:04.49rhoweIt came out measuring 53000 steps :P
21:04.54rhowe(yes, it still works!)
21:05.01Leedslol
21:05.02rhoweAt least, after draining it
21:05.17rhoweI didn't convert it to km, but that's easily done..
21:05.33rhowe32km, roughly, had I walked it :)
21:05.53Leedsit's amazing how far clothes can go without moving :-)
21:05.59rhoweI even took apart the weight and saw how the mechanism's put together
21:06.42rhoweHm, nope
21:08.03rhoweI wonder what the average stride of a washing machine is :)
21:10.14Leedsheh
21:11.23rhoweThe seller of that HD had another one with 2 days left, so I asked if I bid and won on that one, could he combine them without putting the postage up
21:11.34rhoweHe said "I just weighed them and they weigh two pack of Tesco icing and one pack of Rowntree's jelly orange flavour in French 1.135kg, so yes it's in the same postage category. If you hit buy it now I'll even throw in the Jelly for free"
21:11.57rhoweHowever, buy it now is a fiver, and I can probably get it for 99p if I wait 22 hours
21:12.10rhowe(plus 4 quid delivery)
21:12.19rhoweI wonder if he'll still combine the two :)
21:12.32Leedsdon't forget the jelly
21:12.46rhoweWell yes
21:13.36rhoweAnyway, it's 8.6G of storage and some jelly for a tenner,
21:15.28rhoweargh silly Tesco
21:15.38rhoweI know the postcode on my clubcard doesn't match the postcode I'm at now
21:15.48rhoweHell, it's probably registered to a Manchester one
21:16.04rhoweheh yep, M13
21:18.23rhoweHm, the jelly is only worth 38p
21:20.23rhoweOn Mon, Apr 18, 2005 at 07:50:04PM +0100, Barrie Williams wrote:
21:20.23rhowe> SO IF YOU HIT THE BUY NOW I'LL DO ONE POSTAGE I'LL EVEN THROW IN THE
21:20.23rhowe> JELLY....
21:20.23rhoweWell, that depends on the kind of jelly. Is it the ready to eat or the
21:20.23rhowequick set?
21:20.45rhowe(the quick set is worth 24p more!)
21:22.33Leedsthe buy now is a fiver?
21:22.37rhoweyeah
21:22.41rhoweA whole 4 quid more
21:22.44Leedsthe shipping is 4 quid?
21:22.46rhoweYes
21:22.51rhoweSo it doubles the cost, almost
21:23.16Leedsbuy it now + no postage = £5
21:23.22Leedsbid + postage = £5
21:23.39rhoweWell, 2 drives if I hold out until the end of the auction and he combines them = 2+4 = 6 quid. 1 drive at 1 quid plus 1 at 5 plus 4 quid postage plus free jelly = 10 quid
21:23.54LeedsI'd say fuck it and do it now
21:24.10rhoweBut it's a 66% price hike (ignoring the jelly for now)
21:24.15rhoweThe other item ends in 20 hours
21:25.15rhowegrr, wireless just dropped
21:25.22Leedsit's 4 quid...
21:25.28rhoweIt's 66%
21:25.37rhoweIt's 3 pints!
21:25.45rhowe(I'm in Manchester this weekend)
21:26.37rhowe4 quid is 20mins work for me!
21:26.57rhoweMore, after tax and rent
21:27.01Leedsnow that's service...  I bought a general laptop PSU a while back - replacable tips, mains, car and plane plugs at the other end - from PC World for not very much...
21:27.35rhoweThe one you had trouble finding a replacement tip for?
21:27.41LeedsI bent the Apple plug, their UK supplier (Expansys) doesn't stock spares, just extras for things like phones and PDAs
21:27.41rhoweAnd which you didn't want to pay silly shipping costs from the US for?
21:27.42Leedsright
21:27.58Leedsthey sell them for $10 but there's $40 shipping
21:28.03Leedsso I mailed them and asked for help...
21:28.17Leedsgot a reply back a few hours later: " Please provide your shipping address and we will go ahead and send you a replacement tip 15."
21:28.34rhoweA member of staff is flying to London to give you a replacement?
21:28.46LeedsI suspect they'll rely on the USPS
21:30.10Leedsnow all I need is to wrangle an upper class seat on Virgin and I should have power to last the journey :-)
21:30.58rhoweheh. BA's version of premium economy has power outlets apparently. I would suspect Virgin's might too
21:31.41rhoweOK, I still need to get a slot 1 CPU for this Dell box
21:32.04LeedsI don't have such a thing
21:37.12*** join/#gllug Numz (~Numz@82-35-18-215.cable.ubr03.hari.blueyonder.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
21:37.15rhoweebay has many for next to nothing
21:37.27rhowe600MHz P3 (assuming the box'll cope with it) is about 10-15 quid
21:37.54LeedsI had a dual P3-550 machine, but I gave it to a friend
21:43.43rhoweThis is a P2 266 w/128M RAM
21:43.54rhoweShe got it for free and doesn't want to spend more than 30 quid on it
21:44.24rhoweI figure 5-10 quid on doubling the CPU speed, plus perhaps a bit more RAM and she'll be able to use it at least
21:44.55rhoweNot sticking a copy of Linux on there - I've told her she should find someone willing to install a copy of Win2k onto it
21:45.07rhowe(that someone not being me)
22:04.30*** join/#gllug BobtheAvenger (Bob@host213-122-170-157.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
22:04.38BobtheAvengerhey
22:08.14arhi
22:42.07*** join/#gllug Numz (~Numz@82-35-18-215.cable.ubr03.hari.blueyonder.co.uk)
22:54.41*** join/#gllug Numz (~Numz@82-35-18-215.cable.ubr03.hari.blueyonder.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
22:56.33*** join/#gllug Numz (~Numz@82-35-18-215.cable.ubr03.hari.blueyonder.co.uk)

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