| 01:27.19 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~Richard@202.82.163.139) |
| 02:20.31 | *** join/#gllug wethrin (dankolb@ipv6.eco.li) |
| 05:59.12 | Leeds | good morning! |
| 06:00.14 | Cope | yay - a leeds! |
| 06:02.07 | Leeds | how goeth it? |
| 06:04.34 | Cope | not bad thnaks |
| 06:04.49 | Cope | just getting set for the day |
| 06:07.25 | Leeds | well, I've been given a (semi-)formal offer to work here long term... |
| 06:12.49 | Cope | Leeds: gosh |
| 06:12.55 | Cope | Leeds: that was a quick impression |
| 06:13.17 | Cope | I assume for the bra people? |
| 06:14.25 | Leeds | yes |
| 06:14.40 | Leeds | apparently after 3 days they'd decided they wanted me |
| 06:15.17 | Cope | are you in a position to decide if you want them? |
| 06:15.23 | Leeds | not quite |
| 06:16.10 | Leeds | I like HK - not sure yet about living here... |
| 06:16.27 | Leeds | Slightly worried about meeting people - not knowing anyone but the family... |
| 06:16.42 | Leeds | stil not sure about the work |
| 06:16.47 | Cope | the must be a hklug |
| 06:16.48 | Leeds | and the big Sri Lanka question |
| 06:17.09 | Leeds | there is :-) but remember that English isn't the native or even spoken tongue of most/many of the people here |
| 06:17.18 | Cope | ah |
| 06:17.37 | Cope | the sri lanka question being ethical? |
| 06:17.59 | Leeds | nope - they have assured me they're clean |
| 06:18.16 | Leeds | just the general question - HK is a place I could live - it's urban, accessible, etc. |
| 06:18.27 | Cope | well I didn't expect them to own up to being oppressive exploiters. |
| 06:18.42 | Leeds | but to spend a significant part of my time (over 50%, potentially) in Sri Lanka is somewhat different |
| 06:18.50 | Cope | right |
| 06:18.58 | Leeds | I'm going to go out there before deciding |
| 06:19.07 | Cope | of course |
| 06:19.48 | Leeds | and then there's the other question of how long do I plan/want to be here |
| 06:21.15 | Leeds | they would like, in principle, for me to be here permanently... I'm certainly not ready to say that, and I don't feel at this point I ever will be - but they've said that at this point just take it rolling, with 3 months notice |
| 06:21.49 | Cope | right |
| 06:21.57 | Cope | 2 tics.... william |
| 06:23.38 | Cope | what sort of things would have to change for you to feel like you wanted to stay permanently? |
| 06:24.31 | Leeds | I think the main thing would be a feeling of an active social life |
| 06:25.06 | Cope | what about your hosts/employers? How is their friendship circle made up? |
| 06:25.10 | Leeds | and maybe it's not a typo - maybe they're making the point that he's more likely to win in football? :-) |
| 06:25.52 | Leeds | I don't know for sure - there's an active, if somewhat small Jewish life and I don't know how far their circle actually extends beyond that |
| 06:26.13 | Cope | top story: ageing british also-ran beats older semi-british also ran in the rain in a second-rate tournament, in the rain, in germany. |
| 06:26.30 | Leeds | it was raining that much? |
| 06:26.33 | Cope | yes |
| 06:26.34 | Cope | lots |
| 06:26.39 | Cope | and hailing |
| 06:27.19 | Leeds | hailstones as big as a tennis ball? |
| 06:27.27 | Cope | bigger! |
| 06:27.32 | Cope | as big as footballs |
| 06:27.36 | Leeds | a golf ball?!?!? |
| 06:27.44 | Cope | and agassi got struck by lightning |
| 06:27.57 | Leeds | that explains where his hair went |
| 06:28.11 | Cope | and william has contributed a kernel patch |
| 06:28.17 | Leeds | good! |
| 06:28.26 | Cope | william is the best! |
| 06:28.46 | Leeds | I dunno, I've got a damn cute little cousin over here |
| 06:29.02 | Leeds | violent too... |
| 06:29.09 | Cope | i do love the way font management is integrated with firefox in debian |
| 06:29.19 | Cope | Leeds: nice - big guns? knives? |
| 06:29.24 | Leeds | headbutting |
| 06:29.30 | Cope | ah |
| 06:31.28 | Leeds | that, and an attempt to pull me around the room by my finger |
| 06:31.39 | Cope | back at 9ish |
| 06:32.15 | Leeds | have fun |
| 06:43.36 | *** join/#gllug Numz (~Numz@82-35-18-215.cable.ubr03.hari.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 07:48.19 | *** join/#gllug eye69 (eye69@spoofed.host.name) |
| 07:51.21 | *** join/#gllug eye69 (eye69@spoofed.host.name) |
| 07:53.02 | *** join/#gllug eye69 (eye69@spoofed.host.name) |
| 07:54.27 | *** join/#gllug eye69 (eye69@spoofed.host.name) |
| 07:57.07 | *** join/#gllug eye69 (eye69@spoofed.host.name) |
| 07:58.52 | *** join/#gllug eye69 (eye69@spoofed.host.name) |
| 08:16.45 | *** join/#gllug eye69 (eye69@spoofed.host.name) |
| 08:21.58 | *** join/#gllug eye69 (eye69@spoofed.host.name) |
| 08:27.14 | *** join/#gllug eye69 (eye69@spoofed.host.name) |
| 08:32.33 | *** join/#gllug eye69 (eye69@spoofed.host.name) |
| 08:33.49 | eye69 | Hey |
| 08:34.01 | Leeds | afternoon eye69 |
| 08:34.27 | eye69 | I was setting up irssi on a temporary machine, hence the bouncing (my main machine is down at the moment). |
| 08:36.57 | Leeds | I did wonder... |
| 08:55.34 | Cope | Leeds: what are you doing to it? Sticking needles into it? |
| 08:56.41 | Leeds | Cope: nearly - running openoffice, apache, msoffice, firefox, thunderbird, X.org and various other things at the same time in not a huge amount of RAM |
| 08:57.00 | Cope | x.org? |
| 08:57.26 | Leeds | cygwin x server - had enough of not having a real xterm :-) |
| 08:57.32 | Cope | yay! |
| 08:57.36 | Cope | xterm++++ |
| 08:58.25 | Leeds | they are talking about getting me a laptop - since I would be travelling - so I might see if I can slap slack on this PC and leave the laptop for needed win-only things |
| 09:13.47 | Cope | senior management red flag piece collectively achieving concept control |
| 09:13.57 | Cope | blah blah |
| 09:14.21 | Cope | 'flying our own airline' |
| 09:14.23 | Cope | nice |
| 09:15.06 | highbury | what was the name of that LinuxPlaystation girl, anybody know if they're still selling the expansion kit? |
| 09:16.59 | Leeds | Sarah - she's going to be at the LUGradio thing, apparently |
| 09:21.04 | Cope | what#s that? |
| 09:23.45 | wethrin | blah |
| 09:24.01 | wethrin | highbury: Sarah Ewen (works for Sony in London) |
| 09:25.13 | highbury | www.lugradio.org |
| 09:25.27 | Cope | I am aware of that |
| 09:25.35 | Cope | I was rather asking what the 'thing' is |
| 09:27.15 | wethrin | Cope: I wont the Netra T1 |
| 09:27.16 | wethrin | *won |
| 09:28.16 | Cope | wethrin: how much? |
| 09:28.59 | wethrin | £75+delivery |
| 09:29.17 | wethrin | which seems not bad, compared to all the other T1s that have a price tag of around £200 |
| 09:31.41 | Cope | mmhmm |
| 09:32.58 | Cope | how on earth do people get viruses by instant messenger? |
| 09:34.09 | highbury | by not wearing a condom or unsafe sexual practices |
| 09:37.10 | highbury | touching or executing something they shouldn't |
| 09:37.29 | wethrin | Cope: By using a protocol that's a bit broken? |
| 09:37.32 | wethrin | (and a client, too) |
| 09:39.15 | wethrin | Indeed |
| 09:39.29 | wethrin | macs++ - immune to these hateful windows-things |
| 09:41.28 | Leeds | Cope: the things is a day event they're holding in a while |
| 09:41.55 | Leeds | wethrin: I've been wowing the cousins by pointing out that I laugh in the face of viruses and (largely) spam... (hello Martin) |
| 09:42.14 | Cope | They don't seem to listen to me. |
| 09:42.16 | wethrin | Hehe |
| 09:42.45 | Cope | I get *no* viruses and *no* spam - and I explain how and why... but the deciders still continue in their 'I know best' manner |
| 09:43.17 | wethrin | I really should remove my ox.compsoc.net email address from general use |
| 09:57.39 | Leeds | well I gained an extra address this week :-) |
| 10:00.05 | Cope | The nice flat, Hong Kong |
| 10:00.28 | Cope | Leeds: have the bra people said they'll buy/rent you a flat? |
| 10:00.46 | Leeds | Cope: they have |
| 10:00.52 | Leeds | rent... |
| 10:01.12 | Cope | then they should give you that in cash so you can buy.... ;-) |
| 10:01.35 | Cope | Become a hong long property dealer.... |
| 10:02.01 | Leeds | nah, they'll rent a place for me - that way I will only pay local tax on a nominal accommodation-supplied rate (something like 7.5% salary) rather than one the whole rent |
| 10:02.09 | Leeds | not that taxes are so high here |
| 10:02.14 | Leeds | top rate is 20% :-) |
| 10:05.52 | Leeds | and of course there's no VAT... |
| 10:13.50 | rhowe | Cope: It's easy when you think that MSN probably uses an embedded IE HTML renderer to display the chat |
| 10:14.07 | highbury | I just love the synergy app! I have three computer on my desk (Main Desktop, Laptop, and monitor on MacMini) and I can control them all from just one keyboard and mouse :-), it make life so much easier |
| 10:15.15 | highbury | meanwhile, leeds have you ever noticed remote ssh connections to the Mac Mini locking out when one type shift-return? |
| 10:17.29 | Leeds | nope |
| 10:17.37 | Leeds | you've used that machine far more than I have :-) |
| 10:24.04 | Leeds | rhowe: just in case you see this - I'll call her this evening |
| 10:24.08 | *** part/#gllug Leeds (~Richard@202.82.163.139) |
| 10:24.38 | rhowe | OK :) |
| 10:34.30 | *** join/#gllug itsbruce (~brichards@router-office.fotango.com) |
| 10:36.52 | rhowe | It's Bruce |
| 10:40.05 | itsbruce | It so is |
| 10:40.28 | rhowe | itsbruce: I'd say I'd do a Soekris talk at Gllug, but I don't know if I'll be around :) |
| 10:41.23 | itsbruce | Well, you could prep a talk and if you can't manage it this time round, you can do it next time |
| 10:43.02 | rhowe | I could, yes |
| 10:43.31 | rhowe | However, there are also things going on in my personal life that are a bit of a distraction, so we'll see |
| 10:43.42 | Cope | hello bruce!# |
| 10:44.54 | wethrin | foo |
| 10:45.10 | rhowe | morning Cope |
| 10:45.35 | Cope | hello rhowe |
| 10:45.46 | wethrin | morning, Cope, rhowe, itsbruce, everyone else |
| 10:50.57 | highbury | hmmm, this shift-return problem I'm having seems to only affet KDE's konsole app |
| 10:51.10 | wethrin | xterm |
| 10:51.16 | highbury | .. is fine |
| 10:51.45 | wethrin | use that :) |
| 10:56.18 | highbury | hmm, I've got to like konsole mostly for its tabbing capability, though its selection highlighting isn't as good as xterm's |
| 10:57.07 | wethrin | mm |
| 11:00.46 | wethrin | Cope: You fixed your Pixie problems, then? |
| 11:02.52 | *** join/#gllug eye69 (magnus@upcore.net) |
| 11:03.30 | Cope | wethrin: yerp |
| 11:03.59 | wethrin | What was the problem? Debian being crap? |
| 11:06.32 | Cope | no |
| 11:06.37 | wethrin | Oh |
| 11:06.38 | Cope | the NIC being crap |
| 11:06.44 | wethrin | Ahh |
| 11:06.49 | Cope | I reflashed the NIC with latest firmware |
| 11:06.51 | wethrin | That would have been the other thing |
| 11:06.58 | Cope | and it worked instantly |
| 11:07.04 | wethrin | I tend to go for All Software Sucks, then All Hardware Sucks |
| 11:08.20 | rhowe | hahah I didn't.... |
| 11:08.24 | rhowe | ... I think I did... |
| 11:08.50 | rhowe | Listening to some kpop on an internet radio station and I swear they just randomly shouted "Let's get ready to rumble!" in the middle of the track |
| 11:09.07 | wethrin | Okay.. |
| 11:10.04 | rhowe | Rap, dragging kpop kicking and screaming into the early '90's |
| 11:11.31 | *** join/#gllug Jango (~Jango@pacemetrics.plus.com) |
| 11:16.38 | Cope | eek |
| 11:16.55 | Cope | the only good thing about kpop is the pretty girls |
| 11:17.05 | Cope | of which there are many |
| 11:17.28 | wethrin | don't they tend to be artificial? |
| 11:19.52 | Cope | in what way? |
| 11:22.44 | wethrin | hatefully made up with lots of plastic cement? :) |
| 11:24.40 | Cope | Its almost as good as 128 bit encryption |
| 11:31.01 | wethrin | heh |
| 11:33.56 | rhowe | wethrin: Not so sure about Korea, but in Japan that's certainly true :) |
| 11:34.17 | wethrin | Heh |
| 11:45.50 | gregj | 128bit encryptoion ain't any good |
| 11:48.23 | Cope | ok |
| 12:07.39 | *** join/#gllug axelS (~axelS@pc-80-195-187-51-gl.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 12:08.02 | axelS | re |
| 12:09.51 | Cope | cdt |
| 12:47.59 | itsbruce | Cope: you're better off with a Peter Childs filter. He never, ever has anything worthwhile to say. |
| 12:48.26 | itsbruce | Even after you've spend the effort of decoding it. It's like a one-man implementation of hashcash |
| 12:48.57 | wethrin | Dear Firefox installer....no, I *never* wish to use Firefox Start as my home page. Love, dan |
| 13:52.40 | George`VeryIll | wtf is an E-R diagram? |
| 13:53.07 | wethrin | Entity Relationship |
| 13:53.20 | George`VeryIll | fleh. |
| 13:54.57 | wethrin | indeed |
| 13:55.15 | George`VeryIll | what data type could I use to store a telephone number? |
| 13:55.45 | wethrin | text |
| 13:55.52 | George`VeryIll | why text? |
| 13:56.06 | Cope | because its an answer to your question |
| 13:56.19 | wethrin | because it contains optionally brackets, and/or a + |
| 13:57.33 | George`VeryIll | wethrin: ok |
| 13:57.56 | Cope | sorry George`VeryIll - I wasn't taking the piss. |
| 13:58.10 | George`VeryIll | heh |
| 13:58.15 | George`VeryIll | I'm busy doing my AS computing coursework |
| 13:58.21 | George`VeryIll | due in at the exam board on wednesday |
| 13:58.49 | wethrin | heh |
| 14:03.01 | George`VeryIll | and can I store date in an integer? |
| 14:03.10 | George`VeryIll | I'm such a fucking idiot. |
| 14:03.10 | George`VeryIll | grumble. |
| 14:03.45 | wethrin | You can |
| 14:03.52 | wethrin | but most databases would have a DATE field |
| 14:04.01 | George`VeryIll | I'm coding it in C |
| 14:04.30 | George`VeryIll | would a 3 dimensional int array be preferable to a single int in the format YYYYMMDD? |
| 14:05.10 | wethrin | I'd use a struct in that case |
| 14:05.16 | George`VeryIll | ok |
| 14:05.29 | wethrin | But, I'd probably still use YYYYMMDD |
| 14:05.42 | George`VeryIll | for the struct? |
| 14:07.16 | wethrin | No |
| 14:07.21 | George`VeryIll | ok |
| 14:07.23 | wethrin | for a date format, in an int |
| 14:07.33 | George`VeryIll | but it'd be easier to parse the data if it was in a struct, no? |
| 14:08.41 | wethrin | Depends what you want, really |
| 14:09.51 | itsbruce | Using a simple int makes certain operations easier. Comparisons, for example |
| 14:12.02 | itsbruce | If you were using an OO language, of course, you could roll an object with all the methods you need and the internal representation wouldn't be an issue |
| 14:26.36 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@pcd554218.netvigator.com) |
| 14:26.48 | wethrin | HongKong! |
| 14:26.59 | Leeds | yes indeedy! |
| 14:27.21 | wethrin | When're you returning here? |
| 14:27.34 | Leeds | well, that's an interesting question |
| 14:28.08 | Leeds | my return ticket is for 22/6 |
| 14:28.23 | George`VeryIll | yoyo Leeds |
| 14:28.28 | wethrin | but.... |
| 14:28.33 | Leeds | evening George`VeryIll |
| 14:28.43 | Leeds | wethrin: but..... well, it's flexible... |
| 14:29.10 | wethrin | ah |
| 14:30.03 | highbury | don't store yyyymmdd as an integer |
| 14:30.20 | highbury | you could use the traditional days since 1 jan 1970 |
| 14:30.30 | Leeds | I do firmly intend to be in London mid-July for a wedding, and would quite like to be in Malaga at the end of the month for a concert |
| 14:34.00 | wethrin | mm |
| 14:40.12 | highbury | well ok you could (store it as an int, but just be careful... |
| 14:43.40 | itsbruce | You always have to be careful with date representation unless you're using a language that has a native date type or object |
| 14:43.59 | Leeds | why are you not using a language which has a native date type or object? |
| 14:45.31 | itsbruce | It's coursework. The language is presumably ordained. |
| 14:46.19 | Leeds | coursework? |
| 14:46.41 | itsbruce | It was George that asked the original question. |
| 14:46.48 | Leeds | ah! |
| 14:47.00 | Leeds | suddenly everything is very slightly clearer |
| 14:47.19 | wethrin | Yes. George doesn't use real languagew |
| 14:47.22 | wethrin | *languages |
| 15:30.53 | Leeds | okay, this is dumb |
| 15:31.29 | Leeds | I just saw a reference to orkut somewhere which of course I signed up to ages ago and haven't been back to for months... |
| 15:31.46 | Leeds | suddenly had a thought - "I wonder if there are any friends of friends in Hong Kong I can contact?" |
| 15:32.00 | Leeds | of course, the search only lets you specify "United Kingdom" or "anywhere" |
| 15:40.57 | itsbruce | Orkut is an embarrassment to Google. |
| 15:41.17 | itsbruce | Last I heard (from someone who works there), they were quietly trying to sell it. |
| 15:41.45 | Leeds | I'm sure I heard somewhere that 40% of the users were from Brazil or something |
| 15:42.24 | Leeds | anyway, yeah, it's not exactly been the greatest success of their side projects |
| 15:54.03 | *** join/#gllug benmf (~ben@82-68-16-54.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 16:50.02 | wethrin | Heh |
| 17:19.22 | Cope | what do you reckon's the best way to grep for someting in every file in a directory tree? |
| 17:19.26 | Cope | find | xargs? |
| 17:21.57 | wethrin | grep -r |
| 17:22.17 | wethrin | That'll even give you the filename that the grepped string is in |
| 17:31.17 | Cope | nice |
| 17:31.52 | wethrin | Yup |
| 17:39.24 | *** join/#gllug BobtheAvenger (Bob@host213-122-2-194.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 17:39.53 | BobtheAvenger | hey |
| 18:51.50 | George`VeryIll | impressive. I've managed to run out of space on a 3200x1200 resolution |
| 18:52.17 | wethrin | heh |
| 18:52.23 | wethrin | run defrag on your screen |
| 18:57.00 | George`VeryIll | wethrin: http://www.gwright.org.uk/carbon2.png |
| 18:57.01 | George`VeryIll | lol |
| 18:58.20 | wethrin | Your server is fucking slow |
| 18:58.24 | George`VeryIll | yes |
| 18:58.43 | wethrin | get a faster connection |
| 18:59.07 | George`VeryIll | no |
| 18:59.12 | wethrin | Yes |
| 18:59.16 | George`VeryIll | I'm not paying for SDSL. |
| 18:59.18 | wethrin | Mm. At least you use irssi |
| 18:59.21 | wethrin | Oh go on |
| 18:59.25 | wethrin | you're rich enough |
| 18:59.34 | George`VeryIll | wethrin: heh |
| 18:59.56 | wethrin | and at least you're using LaTeX. This is godo |
| 18:59.59 | wethrin | *good |
| 19:00.05 | wethrin | there may be hope for you son |
| 19:00.09 | George`VeryIll | heh |
| 19:00.10 | wethrin | *soon |
| 19:00.21 | wethrin | But, as a suggestion, use \subsection, rather than just \bf{} |
| 19:00.23 | highbury | cope: find / -type f -exec grep pattern {} /dev/null \; |
| 19:00.39 | George`VeryIll | weththanks |
| 19:01.00 | George`VeryIll | bleh |
| 19:01.15 | wethrin | Or if you don't want it numbered, use \subsection*{foo} |
| 19:02.13 | George`VeryIll | thanks |
| 19:02.19 | wethrin | np |
| 19:03.28 | George`VeryIll | wethrin: nah, it's hayfever apparently |
| 19:03.38 | wethrin | Ahh. Okay |
| 19:03.56 | wethrin | Not so bad, then |
| 19:48.35 | *** join/#gllug BobtheAvenger (Bob@host213-122-66-157.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 19:48.51 | BobtheAvenger | hrey |
| 21:20.47 | *** join/#gllug anap (~ana@213.78.74.36) |
| 21:29.06 | *** part/#gllug anap (~ana@213.78.74.36) |
| 21:30.09 | George`VeryIll | wethrin: coursework sucks :) |
| 21:35.28 | *** join/#gllug ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 21:35.28 | *** topic/#gllug is Greater London LUG. Next meeting: End of May or start of June 2005, Web site: http://www.gllug.org.uk; Wiki: http://wiki.gllug.org.uk; Channel stats at http://www.jonmasters.org/irc/gllug |
| 21:46.51 | *** join/#gllug Jango (~Jango@puritan.demon.co.uk) |
| 21:53.18 | *** join/#gllug Numz (~Numz@82-35-18-215.cable.ubr03.hari.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 21:59.46 | *** join/#gllug mz2 (~mz2@81.1.89.151) |
