irclog2html for #gllug on 20050721

00:12.04*** join/#gllug Catalyst (~AngelChil@jamesmorse.plus.com)
01:47.17*** join/#gllug George_ (george@83.146.61.45)
06:01.25highburymorning
07:33.34*** join/#gllug morsing (~morsing@dsl-80-46-110-1.access.as9105.com)
07:33.40morsingEy up!
07:50.50mozratallo!
08:03.11*** join/#gllug Catalyst (~AngelChil@jamesmorse.plus.com)
08:57.20eye69Morning
09:00.51*** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@host-212-158-207-148.bulldogdsl.com)
09:01.36mozratLeeds!
09:02.52Leedsmorning mozrat
09:14.43Leedshmmm... in the last month, I appear to have used my credit card to pay companies in 5 countries - Hong Kong, Macau, Germany, UK and the US :-)
09:15.10*** join/#gllug axelS (~axelS@pc-80-195-187-51-gl.blueyonder.co.uk)
09:15.28Leedsmorning axelS
09:15.32axelSg;morning
09:16.10Leedsjust think... if your surname started with F, you could sue the fucking frog into a small smoking crater
09:17.10wethrin:)
09:17.16wethrinDoes Leeds not like Crazy Frog, then?
09:18.09Leedswethrin: where did you get that impression?  something to do with my moving to the Far East largely to get away from it?
09:18.31wethrinThe only time I've ever seen it is on HIGNFY
09:18.45wethrinAnd then William Hague did his impression of it at the end of the show
09:19.19Leedsthe strange thing is that the one place I'm not aware of ever having heard it is on a phone... but their adverts are fucking annoying, and their 'music' is a travesty
09:19.31Leedsplus, the company is pretty sleazy
09:20.47wethrinI've not seen the adverts :) I don't watch TV
09:20.53wethrinAt least not advert-ed TV
09:23.18Leedsto be honest, I think the main place I've seen them is at the gym... and therefore not amazingly often :-)
09:24.42wethrinAhh
09:27.10Leedsanyway, the mere concept of their 'music' is enough to justify, oh, surrounding the whole company with frogstar fighters and dragging the building off to the Total Perspective Vortex
09:27.26wethrinIt's no worse that rap "music"
09:27.37Leedsit's far worse
09:27.57wethrinehh
09:28.04wethrinding ding ding
09:28.44Leedsyou may not like the actual style of rap, but there is - sometimes - serious creative and at least rythmic value, if not melodic
09:28.54wethrinRarely
09:29.02wethrinSpecially with the mass-marketed tripe
09:30.07morsingMmm...
09:30.10Leedsbut not never
09:30.11wethrinHm. I should have breakfast. I've been on IRC for about 20 minutes already
09:30.33Leedsand it's certainly not as blatantly cynical a manipulation of the music 'business'
09:30.40wethrinTrue :)
09:34.38wethrinHm. I should eat breakfast
09:39.45*** join/#gllug AndrewBlack (~chatzilla@81.2.66.249)
09:40.21GeorgeLeeds: mmm. muffins.
09:43.22Leedsmmmmmm.....
10:04.06wethrinOh dear. Some silly Labour person said that 'Land of Hope and Glory' should be replaced with Rod Stewart's 'Sailing' at Remembrance Day services, because LOHaG has got 'political connotations'. And had to back down due to complaints from veterans
10:11.09Leedsdamn right
10:11.27Leedsof course, to Americans, LoHaG just means someone is graduating :-)
10:11.43wethrin:)
10:11.54wethrinMaybe he objected to "Mother of the Free" :)
10:15.34wethrinI should head into the department. Bye
10:15.38Leedsseeya
10:16.10murbleLeeds: or dying.
10:16.13murbles/dying/dead/
10:16.19murblethey play the tune at funerals etc.
10:16.35Leedsmurble: really? never heard that before
10:17.57murbleWell they had it for ex presidentregans anyway, maybe that isn't typische
10:18.29Leedsmaybe they class it as a special sort of graduation - mad religious folks over there :-)
10:19.36Leedsbloody hell - 39 degrees in Macau
10:20.58murblenot bad.
10:22.05Leedstry adding a power outage which left about 1000 homes without power - i.e. no aircon
10:26.45Leedsibot change 100000 hkd to gbp
10:40.03wethrinMmm
10:40.06morsingMmm...
10:40.10wethrinbeer?
10:40.15morsingRicwe
10:40.22wethrinyes
10:47.55Leedsso, given the lack of obvious alternatives, I think I should declare this evening's london.pm my official back-in-town/leaving-town do...
10:48.35wethrinYou get to see Stig dancing/singing :)
10:48.42Leedsso I see...
10:49.05Leedsand it's just behind Houston station
10:50.25wethrinSo fairly convenient for you?
10:50.57Leedsreasonably
10:51.29LeedsI was thinking of heading into town mid-afternoon-ish for shopping/wandering/etc., and Euston is convenient to get home...
10:51.39wethrinFair enough
10:51.52morsingLeeds: Not Aylesbury?
10:51.53Leedsmust dig out my osyter card
10:52.01Leedsmorsing: not planning on it
10:52.15wethrinAylesbury is too far away :)
10:52.17Leedsmorsing: you coming tonight then?
10:52.25morsingwethrin: No it isn't
10:52.31Leedswethrin: it's not horribly far away from here, but it is a drive
10:52.35morsingLeeds: No - parents are visiting
10:52.50Leedsmorsing: so you're missing my leaving do for the second time?
10:53.09wethrinmorsing: It is. It's about 5 hours away for me :)
10:53.17Leedswethrin can't be bothered to come down and see me... morsing is busy entertaining old people... I don't know... :-)
10:53.30wethrinI'm coming down the DAY AFTER!
10:53.37wethrinYou just leave at inconvenient times
10:53.59Leedsto be honest, if things had worked out a little better, I'd have come back a week later and stayed for the UKUUG thing
10:54.07Leedsand my birthday, etc.
10:54.17mozratnewbie vi question for you... whats the opposite of "set number" ?
10:54.32mozratto remove the line numbering
10:55.29Leedsmozrat: in vim, at least, "set foo" tends to be paired with "set nofoo"
10:56.53mozratLeeds, thanks :)
10:56.57Leedspleasure
10:57.07mozratLeeds, what time are you hitting London.pm tonight? I'm only going for one
10:57.35mozratchurch mouse with a mortgage from the "Bank of Cheese" and a few dozen little mice
10:57.37wethrinmozrat: Isn't that a few hours too early?
10:57.49mozratwethrin: ahhhh. let me see
10:58.10mozratLeeds, what time are you hitting London.pm *tomorrow*? I'm only going for one
10:58.38wethrinNo, a few hours, not an entire day :)
10:58.44mozrathehehehe
10:58.46wethrinYou should be going for around eight, not around one
10:59.09Leedsum...
10:59.11Leedsit's today
10:59.19mozrattoday
10:59.19mozratyes
10:59.24Leedsand I'd say sometime around 6ish, for the duration
11:00.08mozratwethrin: don't confuse me :)
11:00.15wethrinWhy not? :)
11:00.30mozratcos I'm easy pickings!
11:01.25wethrinTrue. :)
11:01.36Leedsit's the blackberry...
11:04.02Leedsso... if I decided to *not* crash the london.pm and call for drinks, say, Tuesday next week... would anyone actually bother turning up? :-)
11:04.12mozratLeeds, very likely :)
11:04.54wethrinLeeds: Do both
11:05.48Leedswethrin: I think you're probably right
11:06.47wethrin:)
11:12.01mozratLeeds are you thinking of skipping then
11:14.27Leedsmozrat: as I said in my mail - I do intend to be there tonight, but I'd also prefer to have my own drinks next week - Tuesday night seems best
11:14.39mozratLeeds, noted
11:16.17*** join/#gllug aCilnv (~aCilnv@82-69-41-123.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
11:16.31aCilnvhi all
11:17.03mozratHello!
11:18.11aCilnva quick question, i currently get my email from my hosting co - oneandone.co.uk - but seeing as i'm fedup paying £80/yr and have an debian box at home doing nothing, how diff will it be to get email running on it..and if so , what's the easiest email solution for me to implement ..?
11:18.43mozrataCilnv: depends on things such as do you have a static IP address
11:18.48aCilnvis there a how-to doc to getting email running??
11:18.51LeedsaCilnv: how many addresses?  how many domains?  what is your connection at home?  does it have a static IP?
11:18.53aCilnvyip ..static at home
11:18.59mozratwould you have a secondary server to accept mail if your ADSL goes down etc
11:19.19aCilnv1 domain , about 5 addresses , adsl 1mb aT home ..static
11:19.48Leedsand only one user, I assume?
11:19.53aCilnvwell if adsl goes ... no sec ..( i know that does mean a potential loss of email..)
11:20.14aCilnvyes .. thats it ..leeds ...1 usr
11:21.12aCilnvi've been reading the exim / postix / sendmail ..ect rants .. and am  totally confused now .. cause al claim they are bette . abit like the distro wars ?
11:22.06mozrataCilnv: which distro do you want to use?
11:22.09LeedsaCilnv: don't forget qmail - which is really appallingly bad
11:22.13Leedsmozrat: debian
11:22.33mozratA basic setup shouldn't be to hard to get going
11:22.52aCilnvyip . . i already have a debian box with apache ssl running on it .. so .. if i can add the mail on to that .. it would be cool
11:23.01mozratpostfix and ipopd
11:23.12mozrator imap
11:23.26aCilnvwould prefer imap. .
11:23.26LeedsaCilnv: would you want access to your mail from outside your home network?
11:23.46aCilnvif its not too much of a hassle .. yip ..
11:23.57aCilnvsomething like webmail ??
11:24.18Leedswell, if you've already got https working, that's probably the best thing, yes
11:25.02aCilnvbut 1st things 1st ( Oz is getting killed in the cricket) ..just want to have a email server to get the mail .. and to send mail from .. so i can tell oneandone to fukoff
11:25.29LeedsI've never really looked at postfix... sendmail is okay, but pretty complex... exim seems nice... qmail is evil
11:26.19aCilnvso what do you guys think is the easiest solution for the simple problem of mine ?
11:26.30rhowehotmail :)
11:27.10mozrataCilnv: I would recommend installing postfix (but thats just my preference) and the UW imap daemons
11:27.11Leedsrhowe: fool!  gmail...
11:27.22mozratthat would get you a server up and running with your local users
11:27.28mozratand you can make it more complex ther
11:27.31aCilnvrhowe .. something a little more flexible .. where i can also still have my email address at name@mydomain.com
11:27.34mozratcomplex from there
11:27.48Leedspersonally I'd go for exim over postfix - just because I know exim a little better
11:28.13rhowehmm..
11:28.37aCilnvso id use exim as my incoming .. and what as my smtp ?
11:28.54Leedsexim
11:28.57Leedsor postfix
11:29.11Leedsincoming and outgoing mail aren't really very different, from the point of view of your MTA
11:29.35aCilnvso what will be my MTA then ?
11:29.47Leedsexim... or postfix :-)
11:30.25mozrataCilnv: Postfix (or exim :-) is your SMTP server, MTA, outgoing and incoming mail server software
11:30.30Leedsthere are three M?As - Mail Transfer Agent, Mail Delivery Agent, and Mail User Agent
11:30.56Leedsand I would always use procmail as MDA
11:31.59aCilnvoki...boys ..tx a mill ...off to the google howto search .. and speak later !
11:32.31Leedsgood luck - and feel free to hang around either just because, or for help as you go...
11:33.21aCilnvtx
11:35.53mozrat:)
11:36.08rhoweenlists, more like :P
12:05.48*** join/#gllug morsing (~morsing@dsl-80-46-110-1.access.as9105.com)
12:23.35mozratWild rumour time
12:23.44mozratanyone near Warren Street at the moment?
12:25.13rhoweNot me
12:25.52mozrat3 stations evacuated apparently
12:26.25mozrathttp://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1189833,00.html
12:28.28wethrinhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4703777.stm
12:28.33wethrinNorthern Line in not working shocker
12:34.06Leedshmm... was planning to head that way soon
12:34.27Leedsguess maybe I won't hurry
12:35.17Leedson the other hand, I appear to have a working 0207-incoming SIP phone
12:36.21Leedshttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/press-releases/press-releases-content.asp?prID=443
12:37.37*** join/#gllug iTron (tron@sentinel.wreckage.org)
12:40.46wethrinheh. The subtitle to the page is "Getting London Moving"
12:41.27wethrinReuters says a nail bomb at Warren St.
12:44.26mozrat"He told me he had seen a man carrying a rucksack which suddenly exploded. It was a minor explosion but enough to blow open his rucksack. Everyone rushed from the carriage. People evacuated very quickly. There was no panic.
12:44.33*** join/#gllug AngelChild (~AngelChil@phantom.ecs.soton.ac.uk)
12:44.34mozratThe man who was holding the rucksack looked extremely dismayed.
12:44.40mozratextremely dismayed??
12:45.09axelSshit
12:45.14axelSwe've been attacked again
12:45.20axelShttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4703777.stm
12:45.23wethrinExtremely dismayed :)
12:45.29LeedsJohn Hearnes seems to think it was a dummy
12:45.48axelSsorry, didn't see you already knew
12:49.26gregjsomething happend in London again ?
12:49.43Leedsgregj: apparently
12:49.44gregjwhat is rucksack :>
12:50.14Leedsgregj: backpack?  bag you carry on on your back with one strap over each shoulder
12:50.21gregjoh
12:51.13gregjterrorists again, or just accident ?
12:51.23axelSdunno yet
12:51.33axelSapparently people felt a bang
12:52.18axelSoops - somebody said the f word on bbc 24
12:52.30LeedsaxelS: no-one is going to care right now
12:52.36gregjaxelS: :]
12:52.42*** join/#gllug pie (~pie@browse.net-serv.co.uk)
12:52.48pieHello!
12:52.51Leedsah well - there goes my plans to go into town this afternoon
12:52.53Leedspie: hey
12:52.53iTron"Dummy explosions using detonators only have sparked the evacuation of three Tube stations and the closure of three lines, a BBC correspondent has said.
12:53.18iTronSo looks like it's only  detonator caps that went off.
12:53.20wethrinpie!
12:53.29pieHmmmm, pie
12:53.44pieiTron, got a URL?
12:54.24Leedsbomb on a bus as well...
12:54.57iTronpie: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4703777.stm
12:55.36axelSpretty darn stuipid
12:55.40axelSstupid even
12:55.53Leedsso was it a) a failed attack, b) a copycat attack, c) a prank, d) other?
12:56.08axelSthey must have been planted which beggars believe that this can happen two weeks after the bombs
12:56.14gregjLeeds: on the bus ?
12:56.19Leedsgregj: generally
12:56.29iTronIf it's only detonator caps going off, then either it's someone's idea of a sick joke, or it's a further little attempt at a psychological attack, in my opinion.
12:56.45AngelChildaye
12:56.49gregjor was it just the way to show ppl 'we can do it again, see'
12:57.14AngelChildfear is more effective than mass murder
12:57.17iTrongregj: That comes under " a further little attempt at a psychological attack" ;)
12:57.31axelSAngelChild: indeed
12:58.08gregjso if there are no injuries, ppl carring these "bombs" should still be alive
12:58.12iTronIf it's someone's idea of a sick joke, then they're in for an awful lot of bother when law enforcement catch up with them..
12:58.50axelSa second cell
12:58.58axelSperhaps
12:59.25axelSi just can't believe this can happen with all the extra security in place!
12:59.40axelSs.bombers, ok - i can understand but dummies?
13:00.09AngelChildyou can't stop people from carrying bags around, and it isn't feasible to check them all
13:00.20AngelChildor even any significant proportion of them
13:00.25Leedsand it's very hard to scan for bombs
13:00.51AngelChildyou can't really stop that thing at the point of attack very effectively
13:06.08*** join/#gllug clyphox (~clyphox@82-35-127-97.cable.ubr01.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk)
13:08.26gregjskynews says it was nailbomb...
13:09.07AngelChildskynews said it was a nailbomb when there were sketchy unconfirmed reports
13:09.49rhoweLondon Police not regarding this as a major incident yet. (BBC News 24)
13:09.51gregjskynews is telling rubish anyway
13:09.53rhoweugh, wrong paste
13:10.01rhowehttp://en.wikinews.org/wiki/London_Underground_evacuation_after_%27Incidents%27
13:10.07rhoweThat's what I meant to paste
13:10.23gregjthey claimed poped died one day before, that there were over 100 fatalities 2 weeks ago, etc
13:11.11gregjs/poped/Pope/
13:11.15rhowegregj: Do you want my bank details, btw?
13:11.25gregjrhowe: yes, I am still waiting :-)
13:11.34rhowegregj: What do you need? The IBAN?
13:11.52gregjI thought you are waiting for the time when you are urgently in need or something
13:11.57clyphoxhowzit
13:12.02rhowegregj: No, just being lazy :P
13:12.16gregjrhowe: yeah, everything you just normaly need to wire money abroad
13:12.38gregjbut I won't be able to send you anything before 1st anyway, I am completly broken
13:12.45JAVnot_so_good afternoon
13:12.55rhowegregj: No worries
13:13.05wethringregj: ITYM 'broke'
13:13.05rhowegregj: I won't rush to the bank this lunchtime then :)
13:13.20wethrinbroken is different :)
13:13.32clyphoxI'm both <giggle>
13:14.30gregjwethrin: yeah, true
13:14.37gregjsorry, spell problem
13:14.44wethrin:)
13:14.44gregjI konw the differene
13:16.28LeedsUCL hospital?
13:17.21iTronYeah looks like armed police are cordoning off UCL hospital.
13:23.18Georgegregj: ping
13:23.42gregjpong
13:23.49Georgegregj: can you make it to lwce this year?
13:23.54Georgegregj: we need help on the KDE stand
13:24.03gregjcan't promise, but I'll try
13:24.10Georgegregj: thanks, it's the 5th and 6th October
13:24.14gregjI got your email to kde-gb
13:24.21Georgegregj: yeah
13:24.30gregjI'm on it too,
13:24.34George:P
13:24.50gregjI still am half British, you know ;) by heart
13:25.06George:P
13:25.43Leedsbah... London is far too dangerous - I think I'll move to Hong Kong instead
13:26.04clyphoxI love london now :)
13:26.09wethrinbut Olympia sucks
13:26.19wethrinAnd the Linux Expos are really boring. No good freebies any more
13:26.27gregj:]
13:26.33gregjyeah, stay in that cottage :P
13:26.48wethrinI miss London sometimes
13:32.17LeedsaxelS: stillnotafraid.com registered last week
13:33.27axelShehe
13:34.13Leedshowever, stillnotafraid.co.uk - which is far more appropriate - seems to be available :-)
13:35.21gregj;]
13:38.01rhowe"There are also reports of Police chasing a man along Tottenham Court Road. (Sky News)"
13:38.10rhoweNational news right there :)
13:38.26gregjA police officer has indicated that there is an unexploded device in Shepherds Bush.[Radio Five live bbc]
13:38.35gregjdocklands and canary wharf still safe
13:53.35rhowemmm, moldy fat
13:58.09Leedsapparently there are delays on the Northern line... or so I hear
14:00.10rhoweThat's a given
14:02.33gregjit doesn't run
14:02.58gregjit is suspened that is
14:03.14gregjdeadpan ?
14:03.42Leedssaying something which isn't serious, but saying it in such a way that it looks/sounds serious
14:03.57Leedsi.e. without smiling/smilies
14:04.45gregjright, than it doesn't work on irc :]
14:04.51Leeds:-)
14:05.42iTronLeeds: The spooky thing was, I grokked your deadpan statements ;)
14:07.13Leedsanyway, again, BBC++
14:09.14iTronCNN had the scoop over the BBC.
14:09.40Leedsbut I would turn to the BBC for news about London rather than CNN every single time
14:10.00iTronThey were also quicker in coming up with some real information. Admittedly, the BBC has now caught up and then some.
14:12.27Leedsbah... time for lunch
14:22.57mozrathave the buses shut down?
14:25.40iTron"Man has been arrested at Whitehall"
14:26.17Leedsoutside MoD
21:11.05*** join/#gllug ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
21:11.05*** topic/#gllug is Greater London LUG. Next meeting: probably September 2005; Web site: http://www.gllug.org.uk; Wiki: http://wiki.gllug.org.uk; Channel stats at http://www.jonmasters.org/irc/gllug; Pictures at http://gllug.org.uk/ircphoto.html [need new piccy's]
21:15.46Georgeflloooooble
22:11.07Leedswobble
22:48.23*** join/#gllug reuben_ (~chatzilla@host86-128-160-64.range86-128.btcentralplus.com)
22:52.10Leedsevening reuben_
22:53.24reuben_hi
23:03.09reuben_george
23:15.14*** join/#gllug Catalyst (~AngelChil@jamesmorse.plus.com)
23:16.45Georgeargh, it's Catalyst
23:16.48GeorgeDIE CATALYST
23:18.36wethrinheh
23:18.44GeorgeI'm so bored.
23:20.30Catalystdon't tempt me
23:20.38Catalysti might just do it in my current state of mind
23:27.09Leedswhat, die?
23:32.28Catalystyes
23:33.31LeedsI recommend not doing that...
23:46.06Catalysti know
23:46.13Catalystbut you'd have to be me to understand
23:46.17Catalystlike anyone
23:46.57Leedswell, yeah
23:53.51Catalystsome people would give anything to be me, so why do i feel so damned depressed all the time >.<
23:54.24wethrinGood night, all
23:58.47Leedswethrin: g'night
23:59.08LeedsCatalyst: life can suck - but it can always get worse, and in general it tends to get better, in my experience

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