irclog2html for #gllug on 20050818

01:12.28*** join/#gllug Jango (n=Jango@puritan.demon.co.uk)
03:58.26*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@202.82.163.139)
03:59.56Georgehey Leeds
04:00.14Leedsmorning George
04:00.40Georgehow's life in .hk?
04:01.05Leedswet
04:01.09Georgeheh
04:01.18Leedsstarting to get a bit cooler as the summer ends
04:01.20GeorgeA level results published in about 4 hours.
04:01.44Leedsoh yeah... you've got another year to go, no?
04:01.49Georgeyes
04:01.53Georgebut I get my AS results today
04:01.57Leedsah
04:02.00Leedsconfident?
04:02.03Georgedunno
04:02.05Leedsnot sleeping? :-)
04:02.08Georgenot really :P
04:02.12Georgebut I never do that anyway :)
04:03.05Leedstrue
04:03.48GeorgeI'm expecting anywhere between AAAAABB and AAAAAAA, and maybe a C thrown in somewhere if I'm really unlucky
04:04.14Leedsthat's modules, I assume, not subjects
04:04.23Leedsunless things have *really* changed since my day
04:04.27Georgeno, it's subjects.
04:04.34GeorgeI did a silly number of subjects
04:05.02Leeds7 a-levels?  or are you not continuing all of them?
04:05.21GeorgeI'm carrying on with 5
04:05.25George7 AS levels
04:05.30George5 A levels
04:05.32Leedswhich 5?
04:05.42Georgetriple maths, physics and chemistry
04:06.06Leedswhat's triple maths?  I only did two
04:06.28Georgemaths, further maths, stats
04:06.38George18 modules of numeric goodness :P
04:06.49Leedsoh, separate stats
04:06.57Georgeyeah
04:07.05Leedsno general studies, or doesn't that count? :-)
04:07.26GeorgeI did Critical Thinking
04:07.29George(AS)
04:07.36Georgeour school doesn't do general studies
04:08.03LeedsI enjoyed it
04:08.21Leedsdid a couple of courses on MIDI/electronic music, one on medical ethics...
04:10.21Leedsand I got an A in it :-)
04:11.08Georgelol
04:11.14Georgedid it count towards your university thingy?
04:11.31Leedsdon't think so
04:11.39LeedsI was my only A - I got ABBCC overall
04:12.27Georgewhat were the other subjects? maths, f.maths, phys?
04:17.14Leedseconomics
04:17.40Georgeah
04:17.43Georgesilly subjects :)
04:18.05LeedsI really enjoyed economics
04:18.29Leedsprobably my most fun subject at A-level - except the general studies ones
04:20.23Leedsbastard EU online VAT crap
04:21.39Leedsbastards making US shops charge VAT when they sell stuff - electronic stuff, not physical - to 'EU citizens'
04:22.47LeedsI am not currently subject to UK VAT, but because I want to pay with a UK credit card, the government wants its 17.5%
04:30.32Georgehrmm
04:31.52Georgeibot: test
04:31.52ibotOh, no! There's a test and I haven't studied!
04:31.55Georgehrmm
04:32.30Leedsfuckers
04:32.43GeorgeLeeds: what are you trying to buy?
04:32.51LeedsGeorge: magazine subscription
04:33.08GeorgeLeeds: ever considered buying a nuclear bomb? :)
04:33.36Leedscome to think of it, I
04:33.50LeedsI'm not sure that magazines even *have* VAT on them in the UK
04:33.57Leedspretty sure books don't
04:33.57Georgehrmm
04:34.02Georgethat's true.
04:36.31Leedsdouble or even triple fuckers
04:36.41Leeds<PROTECTED>
04:36.41Leeds<PROTECTED>
04:36.41Leeds<PROTECTED>
04:36.41George?
04:36.53Leedsimports of less than 18 quid don't attract VAT
04:37.08Leedsthat doesn't apply to digital services, apparently
04:37.19LeedsIn fact, the VAT exemption for small packages is giving rise to an increasing amount of market distortion with the increase in distance sales that has been facilitated by the Internet, and it is currently under review.
04:37.25Leeds"" on the last line
04:37.47Leedsibot change 22 eur to gbp
04:38.16Leedsinteresting... I'm pretty sure it's 18 quid in the UK, but they say 22 Euro
04:39.35Georgeit is 18 quid
04:39.40Georgeor 36 quid if it's a gift
04:39.48LeedsI seriously do think this whole thing is very wrong - to require a US company to handle EU taxes (different for each country!) because a customer is in the EU is out of order
04:39.59Georgeyes
04:40.00Georgetrue.
04:40.05Leedsif every country in the world made every vendor handle all the tax issues it would destroy international trade
04:40.15GeorgeI didn't pay tax to Symantec when I bought an electronic download version of Norton AV
04:40.30Leedsjust because they can't collect the tax on an email like they can on a parcel
04:40.40Leedsyou probably should have done
04:40.54Georgewell, I was never prompted to
04:40.56GeorgeI just.. bought it
04:40.58Georgeand that was that
04:41.19GeorgeI'm surprised the govt haven't attempted to shut down eBay yet :)
04:41.33Leedshttp://europa.eu.int/comm/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/e-services/article_1610_en.htm and https://secure.hmce.gov.uk/ecom/voes in case you care
04:41.54Leedsmost of the stuff on ebay is physical and is sent by post/courier and therefore goes through regular customs check
04:42.06GeorgeLeeds: not stuff within the UK
04:42.39Leedsif you're a small trader you can ignore VAT - it's only once you get up to some significant 5-figure turnover you need to care
04:42.57Georgeah
04:42.59LeedsI wonder if ebay US charge you VAT if you're in the UK but want to list an item with them
04:43.29Leedsone of the nice things here... no VAT
04:43.50Georgeheh
04:43.59GeorgeI don't like the UK
04:44.03GeorgeUS prices are much more reasonable :D
04:44.06Leedsas opposed to the US, where you only pay VAT (sales tax) if you're buying something within a state - and lots of *retail* places put the prices without tax on the shelves
04:44.17Leedsso you go buy something for $10 and they actually ring up $10.80
04:44.34Georgeit's a 8% VAT?
04:44.38Georgefine by me.
04:44.44Leedsit depends on the state!  which is even stranger
04:44.47Georgeheh
04:44.48Georgeyeah
04:45.09GeorgeI never quite understood all that "we are a united nation but our laws differ from section to section" bollocks
04:45.36Georgeone thing that really drives me up the wall about americans is how they go on and on and on about god
04:45.44Georgeone nation united under god bollocks :)
04:45.52Leedsoh, and cities also charge different taxes, which is even stranger
04:45.54Georgeor "god bless america"
04:46.29Leedsimagine that London and Birmingham had different tax rates - and you paid different tax to ship something from Cardiff to London than if you just bought it in Cardiff
04:46.44Leedsthey have a really messed-up attitude towards religion
04:47.18Georgereally messed-up is an understatement
04:47.35Leedsrates go from 0% in some places to about 9.5% elsewhere, apparently
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04:48.32Leedsaccording to the customs fuckers, downloadable software and electronic auctions are two things explicitly listed on their "things you should charge our tax on" page
04:49.13Georgeoh well :)
04:49.21GeorgeI'd like to see them enforce that
04:50.35Leedsin theory, I suppose they could attempt to fine a vendor through their national courts, or ban them from doing business in the EU
04:51.07Leedsthe whole problem is that if I'm, say, in Hong Kong, and you're say, in the UK, and I sell you something - where has the transaction taken place?  Under whose laws?
04:51.46Georgeinternation law! :D
04:52.58Leedsbut 'international law' will just say 'the laws of country X define this transaction'
04:53.38LeedsI don't know if you ever read T&Cs or contracts - but they almost always say they are enacted under the laws of a particular jurisdiction
04:53.59Leedshonestly, I think that private commerce like this isn't really much business of the government at all
04:54.03Georgeyes, yes
04:57.03GeorgeI think it's time for sleep
04:57.05George6am
04:58.35Leedsis it worth it?
04:58.45Leedslunch time here in a minute or two :-)
04:58.50Georgeyes
04:58.53Georgebecause I get up at 1300
05:00.08Leedsuh, why?
05:30.45*** join/#gllug rhowe_ (i=rhowe@xiao.siksai.co.uk)
05:41.26gregjrhowe_: !
05:47.47Leedsgregj: !
05:50.07gregjhow do you do
05:53.09Leedsvery well, thank you.  And you?
05:53.23Leedssince you ask so formally :-)
05:53.38Leedsactually, not doing amazingly well... knackered, done no work this week...
05:54.27gregjpoor
05:54.33gregjI just woke up an hour ago
05:54.48gregjit's 8 in the morning, my phone woke me up whining up for energy
05:55.06gregjeven thou it was connected to usb port that it is charged via
05:55.29gregji wonder, is there any way I can tell usb controler to turn on power on even thou there is no device on it ?
06:01.07Leedsin my experience I don't need to tell the controller to do that
06:01.29Leedsthe alternative would be a powered hub - just use it as a multiple charger
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06:35.47Leedsfor pure surrealism, you can't beat going up against the Israeli army armed with watermelons: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3129473,00.html
06:46.48Leedsa comment in a Python utility library source file: "This file is the ultmate proof that hackers are lazy."
06:58.21gregj:]
07:19.28eye69Morning
07:22.44Leedsfor some reason, my desk is regularly visited by inquisitive ants
07:23.01Leedseye69: morning
07:23.10eye69How annoying.
07:24.54Leedsnot hugely - it's only one at a time... if it were more, I'd be annoyed
07:25.05LeedsI do kill them sometimes
07:36.17*** join/#gllug morsing (n=morsing@dsl-80-46-110-1.access.as9105.com)
07:36.31morsing'morning
07:37.09Leedsmorsing: yay!  with?
08:19.29morsingUKFSN
08:19.41morsingHe switched the line supplier for me
08:19.47morsingNow I have 1Mb/s
08:22.36morsingYay!
08:26.04Leedsah, good news!
08:26.16Leedsbut who is Hugh? ;-)
08:27.40morsings/hugh/hugs/
08:28.07morsing~seen jason_ukfsn
08:28.08ibotjason_ukfsn <n=jason@spc2-watf3-5-0-cust146.asfd.broadband.ntl.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #gllug, 20h 35s ago, saying: 'spec morsing ?'.
08:28.10Leedsah, I helped?
08:28.12morsing~seen ibot
08:28.12ibotibot <~von@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 315d 7h 52m 44s ago, saying: '800 inches is approximately 2400 barleycorns'.
08:28.22morsingLeeds: No - I'm just happy
08:28.31Leedsibot you last saw yourself almost a year ago?
08:28.42Leedssomeone give that bot a mirror
08:28.45Leedsmorsing: :-)
08:28.51morsingWhy did jason_ukfsn say spec morsing?
08:29.00Leedsmemory...
08:29.11morsingAhh... Was he interested?
08:29.43Leedspotentially, I guess
08:30.57Leedsmy log shows he didn't say anything else about it other than asking for the spec - which you completely ignored
08:31.09morsingI didn't see it
08:34.06Leedsibot change 630 hkd to gbp
08:40.34morsingMmm... server hosting!
08:40.40Leedswhich, incidentally, seems to be the cheapest easy price around here for the box I've got openwrt on
09:11.42z00daxhey guys
09:11.50z00dax$TZ Greetings
09:12.24Leedsshalom
09:18.07ErwinSo, 4-1 in Denmark vs England, eh
09:19.47morsingCrap
09:20.59morsinghhmors      pts/0       18 Aug 08:46     (10.129.241.76)
09:21.40Leedsmorsing: why is that crap?
09:22.57morsingDanes sucks
09:23.07gregj:>
09:23.40z00daxnot all suckage is bad.
09:23.51gregjtrue
09:26.30Leedshmm... my cousin has (IMHO) got the wrong end of the wiki stick
09:27.08LeedsI don't like a wiki as a place for a conversation or other communication - it's for publishing, so people can publish together, or to a group
09:27.17gregjyep
09:27.27gregjphpbb is good for comunication
09:27.41Leeds*email* or *IM/IRC* is good for communication
09:27.41gregjor forums in general
09:27.52gregj*im* too, kopete for instance :-)
09:28.03Leedshe is leaving me messages on the wiki, asking question, wanting an answer
09:28.54gregjsome wiki services have rss feeds, you can use that for feedback
09:29.01Leedsas it happens, I've got the wiki sending me mail when the RichardCohen page changes, so it does come by mail, but still - it's not the right way to communicate
09:29.05gregjif you have loads of bandwith, which is I belive the case in HK
09:29.12Leedsit's an internal wiki anyway
09:29.24Leedsbut yes, b/w is cheap and plentiful here
09:41.00Leedshometime
09:57.45*** join/#gllug Blapto (n=martin@62.232.38.174)
09:57.51BlaptoHi
10:19.25*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@pcd415131.netvigator.com)
10:20.16BlaptoHi Leeds
10:22.21wethrinYOU ALL SMELL OF POO AND WEE
10:22.24wethrinErr, I mean, Hello!
10:23.17Leedshi
10:23.47wethrin:)
10:23.53Leedssometimes it's hard to be a technical genius
10:24.09wethrin:)
10:25.21LeedsGeorge: ping
10:26.04Leedshe has AS results today...
10:26.40BlaptoSo do I
10:26.58GeorgeI GOT SEVEN AS
10:27.05BlaptoWell done
10:27.09BlaptoI don't find out until 1400
10:27.11LeedsBlapto: ah, well good luck if you've not got them yet
10:27.12GeorgeI shaking....
10:27.15GeorgeI'm shakkkkiiinnggg
10:27.17Georgeblllahhh
10:27.26LeedsGeorge: congrats... but you know they're just getting easier and easier every year...
10:28.05Georgehah
10:28.09Georgetwice as easy?
10:28.58Leedsin the 12 years since I did my first year?  sure :-)
10:29.55wethrinSeven AS? what grades?
10:30.21Leedswethrin: I think he mean 7 A grades
10:30.31Leeds7 As
10:31.07wethrinPfff. See, they're all easy
10:31.09Blapto7A's if you want to be really clear
10:31.37LeedsBlapto: the use of an apostrophe isn't clear for plural letters
10:32.12wethrinLeeds: I think it's generally regarded as OK
10:32.32wethrinAs it is for acronyms
10:32.45wethrinHence CD's is acceptable, if looking horrid
10:33.18BlaptoYup, I side with wethrin
10:33.25LeedsI prefer MP3s
10:33.32Blaptoyeah, that's clear
10:33.44Blaptobut AS and As and A's can have some degree of confusion
10:33.44Leedsplus, rather than MP3's
10:34.03LeedsBlapto: hence saying 7 A grades at AS would have been more correct
10:34.11BlaptoYeah, but lengthy
10:34.28Leedstrue, and I guess his hands were shaking too much to type properly
10:35.35GeorgeBlapto: or rather, there were 6 AS As and 1 A2 A
10:35.51LeedsGeorge: that means you'll be able to get into the Poly you want, right? :-P
10:36.27Leedsdo kids nowadays even know what a Poly is???
10:36.34wethrinLeeds: I think given that everyone gets A grades now, the Unis will be looking at personalities
10:36.56Leedswethrin: well he's screwed then - he'll probably threaten to kill and eat the interviewer
10:37.04wethrinLeeds: a*x^3 + b*x^2 + c*x + d ?
10:37.05murbbit scary that there has been a 6% inprovement in passrate since 2000
10:37.09wethrinLeeds: Yes
10:37.24wethrinYes, and I can't really believe that teachers are all getting better
10:37.35murbclearly everyone was stupid a few years ago, as goverment sponsered research shows that a-leves haven't got easier or anythign oh now.
10:37.38BlaptoYou guys work in IT... Is uni needed?
10:37.44wethrinI don't work in IT
10:37.52wethrinmurb:  :-)
10:37.54Blaptosome of you do.
10:37.54murbwethrin: he wasn't talking to you obviously :-)
10:37.57LeedsI work in bras
10:38.03BlaptoLeeds, so do I
10:38.13wethrinBlapto: It depends. After about 5-6 years experience, it doesn't really matter
10:38.14LeedsBlapto: they're just more comfortable
10:38.29wethrinThe hard part is getting the initial job
10:38.30BlaptoLeeds, I know
10:38.52Leedshonestly, I think that while it depends on what you want to do, if you want to be a developer, you're going to have trouble bootstrapping a career without a degree
10:39.25wethrinSure, but it's only the bootstrap. If you can work in development for a few years...
10:39.25Leedsnot necessarily a computer-type degree, although I think that's probably more important now than, say, 10 years ago when there were a lot less computer-type grads
10:39.45wethrinLots of computing courses seem to be 'how to use Word' nowadays
10:40.02murbwethrin: that would be a data entry degree?
10:40.27wethrinmurb: Sure. Still passed off as 'computing'
10:40.37BlaptoI don't want to do development
10:41.03Leedswethrin: not even getting the job - getting the CV on the desk at all... and that's what a degree helps with
10:41.24BlaptoI'm self employed at the moment, don't know if I want to keep that up the rest of my life.
10:41.29murbwethrin: but not computer science?
10:41.52LeedsBlapto: self employed and making a living?
10:42.03wethrinmurb: Maybe. Depends on the Uni
10:42.07BlaptoLeeds, making enough, I still live with my parents and have too much to juggle.
10:42.08murbmaybe i should have opted for my degree to be called `AI'
10:42.41murbBlapto: do yoyu pay them a market rate for board and lodging?
10:42.43LeedsBlapto: if you're living with your parents - and not paying them a fair market rent, bills, tax, etc. - you're not making a living
10:42.51BlaptoI have 3 large clients now, I could start living on my own with 30 clients.
10:42.56BlaptoAnd that's living quite well
10:43.04BlaptoYeah, I'm not making a living now.
10:43.10Leedsso you're saying you make 10% of a living :-)
10:43.15BlaptoYeah
10:43.19BlaptoBut I only do 10% of a job.
10:43.37BlaptoI get roughly £1000/year/client
10:43.39Leedsdoesn't necessaily scale linearly
10:43.44Blaptoso with 17 clients I could live.
10:43.52Leedsand I assume you're paying no tax at the moment
10:44.07BlaptoI'm paying lower rate income tax.
10:44.19Leedson 3k/year?
10:44.22BlaptoWell, no
10:44.31BlaptoOne of my clients is paying significantly more than that
10:44.38Blaptosufficient to put me into an income tax bracket.
10:44.48Leedsare you only working between 1/10 and 1/5 of the time?
10:45.04Leedss/and/to/
10:45.09BlaptoOf what time?  9-5 mon-fri?
10:45.23BlaptoOr 5 working weeks/year?
10:45.27Leedswhatever part of your life you'd be willing to dedicate to working rather than living
10:45.49BlaptoProbably somewhat less than that
10:46.11BlaptoI've stumbled across a not bad business model that I need to spend time marketing, and then coast along on it.
10:46.17Leedseh, whatever... what do you do?
10:46.40BlaptoBackup and security stuff.
10:46.56BlaptoPop round offices, put in a linux box and set up rsync and samba, then leave.
10:47.00Leedsso you're in a competitive market
10:47.10BlaptoSuprisingly, not as much as you'd think.
10:47.15Leedsand one which may not grow indefinitely
10:47.20Leedsvery low barrier to entry
10:47.43edwardmy gweather says 'London: Mist' but there isn't
10:47.46BlaptoYes, but I provide a not terrible level of customer service.
10:47.55Blaptoedward, I don't have windows in this office :(
10:48.25wethrinsurely that's a good thing? :)
10:48.42wethrinRight. I'm off into the department
10:48.50BlaptoYou'd be suprised how often you can go to an IT bod, say hi, talk for a bit and point out gaping flaws in their backup system. I've not found a problem getting clients, just I'm not really willing to have more than 5 at the moment.
10:50.17Leedsdoesn't sound like something I'd rely on as a life-long career
10:50.30BlaptoNo, I probably can't
10:50.40eye69Leeds: Soldering it now.
10:50.45Leedseye69: :-)
10:50.51BlaptoUrgh, it's been hitting my recently, my career is going to last about 40 years.  Minimum.
10:51.23LeedsBlapto: try 50 if you're at AS now - particularly if you're not going to be putting lots of pension money away soon
10:52.00BlaptoI'm probably going to need to do a finance degree, sod IT and go straight into banking to have any chance of an earlyish retirement
10:52.07Leedsretirement ages are likely to be well up by then
10:52.26z00daxguys, I need some help here - anyone shipped machines from the US to the UK ?
10:52.33Blaptoz00dax, yes.
10:52.36murbz00dax: what kind of machines?
10:52.53z00daxa rack of 1U's
10:53.02z00daxnot including the rack, just 18 of these machines
10:53.42z00daxwhats the most cost effecive way to get them over ?
10:54.16BlaptoNot done 1Us, sent some desktops over, just took the heatsink off, packaged them up well and got a courier arranged.
10:54.22Blaptoz00dax, how fast does it need to be?
10:54.41Blaptoconfigure: error: C++ preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check  Grrrrrr
10:54.50Blapto(The Grrrrrr is from me)
10:55.12z00daxBlapto:  time isnt really an issue. ( a month from shipping date is okay with me )
10:56.04BlaptoCheck with DHL (who own everybody else anyway) and UPS
10:56.27BlaptoRoyal Mail do a service as well, but  I've not used it internationally
10:57.03z00daxis 30 lb's a good estimate of weight?
10:57.08z00daxper 1U
10:57.14murbBlapto: you mean deutsche post?
10:57.41murbz00dax: it depends, normally we use kg.
10:57.53BlaptoDHL is deutsche, yes.
10:58.17Blapto30lbs is about right
10:58.23Blapto13.6kg
10:59.36z00daxyea, I checked one here, its about 12.5kg, so was using 30lbs ( UPS seem to want to know lbs )
11:00.19Blapto£1470.40 from DHL
11:00.46Blaptofor 100cmx100cmx100cm and 244kg
11:01.43z00daxI am not going to get 18 machines into 1 M/sq
11:02.04z00daxbut thanks for checking. I'll make some phone calls later in the day today and see what I can dig up
11:02.25Blaptothey're 19"x2"x36"?
11:02.37z00dax+ box ?
11:02.56Blaptoso 40"x40"x40" is actually far too big...
11:03.29Blapto20"x40"x40" will do it.
11:03.34BlaptoActually 1.75" tall normally
11:03.39z00daxyea
11:04.05BlaptoBut it's no cheaper, because you're charged by weight
11:04.36z00daxI guess if they are going to be packed in tight, can discard the box's anyway, pack them in tight. stuff up the sides a bit and its good to go
11:04.48BlaptoOh, right
11:05.08BlaptoI was thinking you were just going to put a big box full of servers and foam into a bigger box and ship
11:05.19BlaptoBut yeah, makes sense to keep them in their packaging
11:05.24Blaptono more expensive really
11:05.51z00daxthey are coming out of a hosting facility, so i am not sure what condition the original packaging is going to be like anyway.
11:06.29z00daxI wonder if the TaxMan is going to want a cut as well ?
11:06.45BlaptoOh, US to UK
11:06.52Leedsthe taxman always wants a cut of everything, however valid their demand
11:07.19BlaptoAre you buying them?
11:08.18z00daxBlapto:  no not buying, a facility in LA is upgrading their setup. they have 2 dozen of these PowerEdge 1550's, fully loaded, to get out.
11:09.23Leedsbastards
11:09.37BlaptoI'll take them off your hands
11:09.39BlaptoFor a small fee.
11:09.40BlaptoErrr.
11:09.50Leedsfor reference, ibot does unit conversion :-)
11:09.58Leedsibot convert 13.6 kg to lb
11:10.08Blaptodoes ibot do sums?
11:10.14Blaptoibot 13.6 times 2.2
11:10.14ibot29.92
11:10.20Blaptoyay.
11:10.36z00daxBlapto:  they are not in-my-hands till they come across the pond
11:10.57BlaptoI'll take them off their hands.
11:11.02BlaptoHell, I'll even pay shipping ;)
11:11.26z00daxthe plan is to put 6 of them on ebay in the US and raise enough money to pay for shipping
11:11.30BlaptoWorks out about $2881 from new york to central london, picked up tomorrow.
11:11.48z00daxi guess LA -> London might add a bit
11:12.35Blaptowhat's the postcode for LA?
11:13.10z00dax90021 ?
11:14.07Blaptowhat spec are these machines?
11:14.44z00daxdual P-3 1.3Ghz, 1 GB, 18GB
11:15.30Leeds90210
11:16.19z00daxis it worth it, is a though that has crossed my mind a few times...but yea, if i can get it on low cost, is worth it
11:16.37z00daxLeeds:  thats the BeeHills!
11:16.42BlaptoYeah, it's probably not worth me buying one that's still in america to colo.
11:16.56z00daxBlapto:  where abouts are you located ?
11:16.56Leedsz00dax: close enough to calculate costs
11:17.24BlaptoI'm in London, but I have a server in Florida as well.
11:19.06BlaptoI could stick one on a 10Mbps port, limited to 650GB up + 650GB down/month for about $100/month
11:19.28z00daxthats a good price..
11:20.00z00daxwho are you hosting with ?
11:20.02BlaptoYeah, but I don't actually need it
11:20.14BlaptoHostdime, they're pretty good
11:20.45BlaptoThey look too cheap, but I was recommended, and they've been really quite good.  They'll manage the server included in that price if you want, do kernel updates and such.
11:22.10z00daxbookmarked!
11:27.49BlaptoAnyone ever set up mrtg with mbmon?
12:03.16z00daxdont we all love people with a 4 line email, and a 21 line signature ?
12:21.20ErwinI hope it's not one of those signatures that says you may not distribute the information in this email to others. If so, you would be breaking the law by talking about it.
12:21.37z00daxErwin:  something such
12:21.47wethrinno, you wouldn't. Those disclaimers after messages have been known to be worthless
12:22.18z00daxthey've been to court a few times, been thrown out each time ( iirc )
12:23.01Georgeok, I've decided my module marks were shit.
12:23.48wethrinGeorge: Ha
12:23.57Georgewethrin: dropped 208 marks out of 2100
12:24.16wethrinI wouldn't bother about that
12:24.29Georgewhy not?
12:25.34wethrinWhy would you?
12:25.39wethrinNo-one actually cares about module marks
12:26.09GeorgeI think I'm the first year for entry where module marks have to be declared
12:26.17Georgeand I got an average of about 90.10%
12:26.36Georgeand some of my modules *cough* statistics *cough* were absolutely dire
12:28.27wethrinBleh. The A-level system is sucking more and more
12:32.14BlaptoCambridge (or Oxford, but I think it's Cambridge) care about module marks.
12:32.29BlaptoAnd I think I've got mrtg monitoring system temps now, yay
12:34.28wethrinCambridge sucks anyway
12:41.24Blaptoheh
12:43.27gregjyeah, buch of microsoft addicts up there
12:43.29gregj:P
12:44.58wethrinyup
12:45.07BlaptoImperial, they like linux.
12:45.26gregjkidding?
12:45.32BlaptoNope.
12:45.37gregjI guess m$ has one of it's "reserach labs" up there
12:45.39BlaptoI went down there for an open day.
12:46.01BlaptoAll their comp science computers dual boot XP and an Imperial Uni version of mandrake.
12:46.06BlaptoI think it's mandrake...
12:47.31BlaptoEeek, actual work
12:47.31Blaptobye
12:47.53wethrinheh
12:49.02gregjI still sustain my opinion thou
12:49.11gregjbased on what I read on m$'s pages
12:49.37wethrinMS Research is not Microsoft, though
12:49.46wethrinApparently they're a damn good place to work - you can pretty much do whatever you want
12:49.52gregjnot ? just happends to do some work for em ;0
12:50.39*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@ipvpn095205.netvigator.com)
12:50.50Georgewethrin sucks anyway
12:50.52George:)
12:51.13gregjLeeds: tell me, how much are 2Gig SDs up there? can't get them in PL
12:51.17wethringregj: Well, in name they're MS, but that's it
12:51.32gregjwethrin: and everything you will come up with will be patented in their name
12:51.36gregjthankyouverymuch
12:51.44wethrinNot necessarily
12:52.28gregjmaybe even you have to sign contract that denies not only participation in any GPL project, but even looking into any code on (L)GPL
12:52.30Leedsgregj: $1120 this weekend
12:52.44gregjthat's HKD
12:52.51gregjnot USD, I hope
12:52.51gregj;)
12:52.56wethringregj: I don't think so. GHC is free software, I think
12:53.08gregjhow much that would be in pounds
12:53.10gregjor PLN even
12:53.11Leedsyes
12:53.19Leedsibot change 1120 hkd to pln
12:53.38gregjthat's not that bad
12:53.45gregj1GB is around 200 PLN
12:53.47LeedsI didn't think so
12:54.07gregjbut mayb e I should wait untill they will get cheaper
12:54.41Georgewethrin: I think I'm the first year that has to submit module marks to all universities
12:54.49wethrinWell, then your year sucks
12:54.49Leedsit may be possible to get them cheaper shopping around more
12:54.52wethrinI blame the people in charge
12:55.18LeedsI blame Tony Blair
12:55.34gregjI blame Bush(es)
12:55.42gregjand holy fire
12:57.40Leedsanyway, the Amazon-UK-shipping-to-HK experiment went pretty well...  the CD shipped on Monday morning, UK time, and arrived at some point today - I think 3 days is pretty good, since they were estimating it would arrive some time next week
12:58.10Georgewethrin: I blame the crappy A-level system
12:59.42wethrinYes. That's the fault of the people in charge
13:00.08George:)
13:00.19murbGeorge: for Leeds package arriving quckily?
13:00.49wethrinmurb: Yes. They clearly didn't know what 'next week' meant
13:01.01morsingwethrin!
13:02.46ErwinRight. I'm going to the inland revenue office and will attempt to fill out form P433-X523..
13:03.04Leedsooh, Inland Revenue... fun
13:03.10Leedsgood luck :-)
13:03.55Leedsoh, the fast shipping is also pretty good considering it cost me *less* than it would have done to get it shipped regular first class to the UK
13:04.59wethrinmorsing!
13:07.14gregjLeeds: you're not in london around 5/6th of September by an chance ?
13:07.20gregjcos I'm going to stay there over night
13:07.31gregjmight even stay longer, will see
13:07.37Leedsgregj: exceedingly unlikely
13:08.21gregjthat probably means not very very very very veryveryveryvery likely
13:08.22gregj:]
13:08.23gregj;)
13:08.45wethrinDamn you, greg!
13:08.55wethrinI'm there the weekend before and the weekend after
13:09.11gregj:P
13:09.16gregjI am going ot malaga this yer
13:09.18gregjyear
13:09.25gregjwill be in londo non 25th, but just for 4h
13:09.27Leedsbeen there, done that
13:09.29wethrinFoo
13:09.34Leedsmalaga, that is
13:09.43gregjso I'll probably won't even leave the airport
13:09.48gregj(gatwick)
13:10.03gregjbut on me way back, I am there longer :-)
13:12.21Leedshmm... this CD (or the case papers, at least) was apparently "Printed in the"
13:14.30Leeds"They shake my nerves and they rattle my brain / These asteroids would drive a man insane / They broke the shield / We'll all be killed / Goodness... Gratious... Great Balls Of Fire!"
13:18.30Leedsmore than 11 years ago, I had this on tape, and almost wore it out playing it in the car - it's Shakespeare's forgotten rock and roll masterpiece, Return To The Forbidden Planet
13:19.26gregj:-)
13:22.59Leedsthis show has some of the worst Shakespeare puns I've ever heard :-)
13:26.39Leedssoft, what light through yonder airlock breaks?
13:30.12Leedshttp://www.neath-porttalbot.gov.uk/wow/event_detail.cfm?param_event_id=634
13:45.14Leedsit must be at the very least 5 years since I heard any of this - but I still remember most of the contents...
14:07.08Leedsooh, that hasn't half put me in a good mood :-)
14:17.42gregjhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5791782530
14:21.33wethrinah yes. We had that up at LBW
14:25.06gregjLBW ?
14:25.44wethrinLinux Bier Wanderung
14:25.51gregj:]
14:26.00gregjanyway, me is off
14:26.09LeedsLinux before wicket
14:26.11z00daxfunny that...
14:26.12Leedsseeya
14:26.13wethrinbye!
14:26.17z00daxtada!
14:30.34morsingwethrin: Did you really?
14:31.17*** join/#gllug JAV (n=JAV@105.Red-80-34-40.pooles.rima-tde.net)
14:31.23morsingJAV!
14:31.25wethrinYes. The page was posted on the main door to the hall
14:31.34JAVmorsing! :D
14:31.45JAVgood afternoon all
14:32.16morsingwethrin: So you didn't actually have the "stuff"
14:32.30wethrinno
14:32.40morsingYou weren't tempted?
14:40.00wethrinNah
15:08.33morsingwethrin: When are you back in London?
15:09.25Georgefloooooble
15:24.15rhowe_http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/08/17/national/a173009D00.DTL
16:09.43ErwinSo the local Inland Revenue told me they just could not comprehend my tax situation. I got a booklet, and a hotline from which I can order some forms to fill and they told me -- good luck.
16:15.08murbErwin: that is why there exist tax advisors and accountants etc.
16:15.19murbyou then give them all your money and end up paying less tax :-)
16:18.55mozratHola
16:27.22Georgehey mozzy
16:27.23George:D
16:28.47mozrathey
16:29.19Georgemozrat: how's you?
16:31.08mozratGood thanks
16:31.29Georgeyay
16:43.25Georgemozrat: I really am the most undecisive sod in the world.. I'm still wondering whether I should get that laptop :)
16:54.11LeedsGeorge: get *something* - you deserve it
16:54.38GeorgeLeeds: ?
16:54.47Georgebah
16:54.52Georgedeserve it. bah.
16:54.57Leedsall As?
16:55.16Georgeheh
16:55.23Georgeyeah, but shitty module marks :(
16:55.29GeorgeI dropped 208 marks out of 2100
16:55.38Leeds10%
16:55.49Georgeyes
16:55.58George9.9% actually :)
16:56.22Leedssee - that's what only having 2 maths a-levels gives you - a tendency to round to integers
16:56.43Georgehahaha
16:56.46Leedsactually, coding gives that tendency
16:56.52George:)
17:04.52Georgehahaha, a friend of mine got 6 As and a U
17:04.56Georgethat's an immense grade set
17:04.56George:D
17:22.38*** join/#gllug eye69 (i=magnus@ipv6.upcore.net)
18:11.49*** join/#gllug Gonzo (n=Gonzo@82-45-233-86.cable.ubr03.hari.blueyonder.co.uk)
18:12.13*** join/#gllug Catalyst (n=angelic@host86-131-41-224.range86-131.btcentralplus.com)
18:14.39GeorgeCatalyst!!!!!
18:14.59Georgewhhhhyyy????
18:16.17Catalystbecause I don't have many lives remaining :d
18:16.22Georgebah
18:16.26Georgeevil.
18:16.33Catalystyou are :/
18:16.40George:(
19:29.03wethrinHeh
19:29.18Georgehey wetthy
19:29.35wethrinhiho
19:29.46Georgewethrin: I just ordered 5x9.1GB SCA SCSI disks on eBay
19:29.51Georgewethrin: 31 GBP incl P&P
19:30.08wethrinthat's a pretty good price
19:30.13Georgeyou think so?
19:30.18GeorgeI thought it was a bit steep
19:31.27wethrinHow much is P&P?
19:31.37George9 GBP
19:31.50wethrinSo, £22 for 5 drives
19:31.54wethrinThat's a good price, really
19:32.00wethrinWell, reasonable, anyway
19:32.03Georgeyeah
19:32.13GeorgeI suppose.. 5*9.1 ~= 45
19:32.23Georgeand a 40GB IDE disk brand new costs about 30 GBP + P&P
19:32.25Georgeso... blah
19:32.31Georgeprice-per-gigabyte isn't bad
19:32.32wethrinWell, yes
19:32.37wethrinSCSI is more expensive anyway
19:32.41Georgeyes
19:32.45Georgebut this is old and crappy scsi :P
19:32.48wethrinEh
19:33.08George80-pin SCA
19:33.13wethrinI know
19:33.17GeorgeWide Ultra SCSI-3
19:34.10wethrinMmm. Wide things
19:34.14Georgeheh
20:06.10CatalystGeorge is a genious apparently :o
20:10.30wethrinHa
20:11.02GeorgeROFL
20:11.13GeorgeCatalyst: been taking lying lessons?
20:11.29Catalystwhy are you so harsh on me :d
20:11.36Catalystand yourself, in fact
20:11.46Georgeeveryone knows I'm a prize idiot
20:11.50Georgeisn't that so wethrin? :)
20:15.56Georgebah, trust wethrin not to be around in my time of need.
20:15.59Georgeuseless bum.
20:18.27wethrin:)
20:18.28wethrinhe is
20:19.04George:D
20:19.07Georgethanks weh
20:19.08Georgeer.
20:19.09Georgewethrin:
20:19.11Georgeblah
20:19.12wethrin:)
20:19.13Georgewethrin.
20:19.16Georgesee. I can't even type. :)
20:19.16wethrin:)
20:19.32George:P
20:20.21Georgewell, I was up all last night stressing out
20:20.26Georgeso I think I'll have a nap.
20:20.28wethrinFor no reason?
20:20.32George?
20:20.42wethrinstressing out
20:20.46Georgeworried about results
20:24.24Georgewhat else...?
20:49.10wethrinPff
21:10.04edwardlooked on www.waterstones.co.uk - it said the one on oxford street was open until 22:00 on thursday, but it was closed
21:10.59mozratedward: rather annoying
21:12.38edwardborders was open, but they didn't have the book
21:13.26*** join/#gllug rhowe (i=rhowe@xiao.siksai.co.uk)
21:21.27mozratwhich book edward ?
21:26.07edwardIn Cold Blood by Truman Capote
21:28.30mozratcool
21:28.56mozratI'm reading some trash at the moment about TWA 800 - flight that was shot down^H^H^H^H^H^H blew up near new York
21:29.17*** join/#gllug wethrin (n=dankolb@ipv6.eco.li)
21:32.08edwardhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800
21:44.03mozratyeah, read that today in fact
21:44.35mozratthe book is fiction but inspired and based on conspiracy theroy's
21:46.33mozratcatch you later
23:04.27Georgehrmmmmmmmmmm
23:27.56wethrinhm?
23:35.24Georgehi
23:35.37GeorgeI said "hrmmmmmmmmmm" when I had just woken up
23:37.00wethrinah
23:37.04wethringo sleep
23:37.09Georgenah
23:37.13wethrinpff
23:37.13GeorgeI'm playing with SS5s at the moment
23:37.56wethrinAhh
23:38.04Georgeor at least, attempting to
23:56.53wethrinBut it's not booting?
23:58.00GeorgeI haven't tried yet
23:58.43wethrinah

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