| 07:23.52 | Leeds | afternoon all |
| 07:42.06 | Cope | yo |
| 08:25.23 | Leeds | gym time |
| 08:54.45 | George | omg |
| 08:54.53 | George | I'm buying the IBM laptop TODAY |
| 08:55.06 | George | YAY |
| 08:59.13 | *** join/#gllug skugg (n=stig@ggtl.org) |
| 09:58.19 | Leeds | George: good plan |
| 10:00.43 | murb | George: a Lenovo laptop asseumbled buy Asus? |
| 10:00.46 | murb | s/buy/by/ |
| 10:01.05 | murb | (i wonder how long that will last give the .cn .tw thing) |
| 10:02.22 | Leeds | murb: .tw and .cn get along exceedingly well in commercial terms |
| 10:03.25 | Leeds | I believe .tw is the single largest source of investment in .cn - and most of the money comes through .hk for political reasons :-) |
| 10:07.05 | murb | Leeds: yes i've read of former KMT officals, now business leaders etc, being wined and dinned in .cn. |
| 10:09.34 | mozrat | Morning |
| 10:19.51 | Leeds | morning mozrat |
| 10:22.31 | mozrat | Howzit? |
| 10:22.51 | Leeds | not bad... recovering from a heavy week :-) |
| 10:23.09 | Leeds | was out Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday nights |
| 10:23.41 | Leeds | you? |
| 10:24.17 | mozrat | bumming around at home |
| 10:24.27 | mozrat | trying to remember how CSS works |
| 10:25.02 | Leeds | trying to watch DVDs? |
| 10:26.21 | Leeds | mozrat: I strongly recommend Safari |
| 10:29.22 | mozrat | Leeds, no Style Sheers |
| 10:29.27 | mozrat | Sheets |
| 10:29.36 | Leeds | yes, I guessed that... |
| 10:29.40 | mozrat | Safari the bookshop? |
| 10:29.48 | mozrat | they rock, but they keep asking me for money :) |
| 10:30.08 | mozrat | I think if I pay them some money I'll get my account reactivated |
| 10:30.36 | Leeds | yeah |
| 10:30.52 | Leeds | should look into a GLLUG group rate :-) |
| 10:31.10 | mozrat | ooh yes |
| 10:31.15 | mozrat | you should |
| 10:31.30 | Leeds | personally... I don't need it... |
| 10:31.56 | Leeds | I don't know how long it will last, but I still have my Sun corporate account :-) unlimited, both in number of books and books on the shelf |
| 10:35.28 | mozrat | nice |
| 10:35.50 | Leeds | I think of it as a post-perk |
| 10:36.58 | George | hrmmph |
| 10:37.01 | George | my brother wants my powerbook |
| 10:37.04 | George | he can't have it. |
| 10:37.19 | Leeds | there's another one of you???? |
| 10:37.22 | George | yes |
| 10:37.24 | George | he's 26 or so |
| 10:37.32 | mozrat | whats his name? |
| 10:37.35 | George | franklin |
| 10:38.06 | George | anyway... the powerbook is on the school network and the school have initiated a really gay policy along the lines of "we're not putting any other laptops on the network which weren't purchased through us" |
| 10:38.33 | Leeds | how is that policy either homosexual or happy? |
| 10:38.45 | George | it's slang for crappy |
| 10:39.00 | Leeds | bad slang |
| 10:39.32 | George | we don't care for political correctness at harrow. |
| 10:40.06 | Leeds | I'm not generally one for political correctness, but that one annoys me |
| 10:40.13 | George | heh |
| 10:40.16 | George | sorry Leeds |
| 10:41.24 | Leeds | for a long time, the Oxford dictionary listed the word Jew as a verb meaning "to cheat" - same problem... it may have been used like that, but it's a nasty connotation |
| 10:41.31 | *** join/#gllug skugg (n=stig@ggtl.org) |
| 10:41.43 | Leeds | evening skugg |
| 10:42.20 | mozrat | Leeds: really? Thats mad |
| 10:42.20 | Leeds | I'm not objecting to the dictionary listing it - it's their job to record usage, not shape it - but I would be very annoyed if I ever heard it being used |
| 10:42.45 | Leeds | mozrat: what's mad? |
| 10:42.54 | Leeds | me, the word, or the dictionary |
| 10:43.05 | mozrat | the word (and to a lesser extent you" |
| 10:43.09 | mozrat | s/"/) |
| 10:43.13 | skugg | Leeds: evening. |
| 10:44.31 | Leeds | mozrat: I don't like the idea that a word which refers to a group of people - and in a fairly neutral way, nowadays - is coming to be used as a generic insult. the effect has nasty implications |
| 10:45.02 | mozrat | Leeds, it does. I was surprised the Oxford English dictionary recorded the word like that |
| 10:45.32 | Leeds | I believe it was listed as an archaic usage |
| 10:47.03 | Leeds | http://www.uwm.edu/~corre/franca/edition3/Jew.html |
| 10:51.22 | murb | like to "welsh"? |
| 10:51.32 | *** join/#gllug morsing (n=morsing@emil.morsing.cc) |
| 10:52.41 | Leeds | yes |
| 10:53.46 | morsing | Yes what? |
| 10:54.30 | Leeds | although I would argue that both to jew and to be gay are worse, since welsh has never really been a serious insult in and of itself, but jew and gay are terms which have been associated with serious discrimination in the past |
| 10:54.41 | Leeds | morsing: yes, like to "welsh" |
| 11:26.30 | morsing | Read from remote host emil.morsing.cc: Connection reset by peer |
| 11:26.38 | morsing | This is really statring to annoy me! |
| 11:27.53 | murb | really? |
| 11:27.57 | murb | why don't you fix it then? |
| 11:58.05 | *** join/#gllug SpudULike (n=colin@87.80.140.13) |
| 11:58.15 | SpudULike | Boo! |
| 11:59.02 | Leeds | SpudULike: hey, long time no see |
| 12:00.33 | SpudULike | Hi, Leeds, how's life away from the UK? |
| 12:01.09 | Leeds | pretty good... getting sort of settled here |
| 12:01.19 | Leeds | how's life in the UK? |
| 12:03.23 | SpudULike | I have managed to overwrite the boot record for a system that's using lvm as a filesystem. I can see I have a /boot partition and someother space which I beleive is the lvm 'space'. Do I just need to put this /boot partition into grub, or is there more to it than that? I've not played with lvm before. |
| 12:04.05 | Leeds | I don't use grub, sorry |
| 12:04.15 | SpudULike | In the UK? Well, the leaves are coming down and the cost of heating going up, so, thing s as normal. |
| 12:04.50 | Leeds | heating not such an issue here... cooling is :-0 |
| 12:05.18 | SpudULike | Have you used lvm though? Would this /boot usually have all the info needed to mount the lvm partition? |
| 12:05.40 | Leeds | I've used lvm |
| 12:06.01 | Leeds | AFAIK, lvm keeps most of its metadata in its own partition |
| 12:06.45 | Leeds | things like mount points and so on will be in the data area, but you should be able to get the virtual partitions visible |
| 12:07.15 | SpudULike | lvdisplay did show a / and a /swap, that seems to tally. Just trying to figure out how to get it into a bootable system. |
| 12:07.36 | Leeds | knoppix? |
| 12:09.52 | SpudULike | The lvm system is on a 2nd hard drive in my machine. The plan was to be able to dual boot, so I was looking for how to modify grub to have it included. I suspect I'll have to go and do some reading. |
| 12:17.06 | Leeds | is root in the lvm? |
| 12:22.02 | murb | SpudULike: if the root is on lvm you'll need an initrd. |
| 12:22.27 | morsing | murb: Just before it disconnects I get loads of these: |
| 12:22.28 | morsing | 2:29:50.405017 802.1d config 8000.00:05:9b:b5:4a:1d.802b root 8000.00:05:9b:b5: |
| 12:22.29 | morsing | 4a:1d pathcost 0 age 0 max 20 hello 2 fdelay 15 |
| 12:23.08 | morsing | 12:30:13.267098 CDPv2, ttl: 180s, Device-ID 'exo-sw1.exonetric.com'[|cdp] |
| 12:23.13 | morsing | as well |
| 12:23.15 | murb | morsing: spaning tree! |
| 12:23.20 | murb | n |
| 12:23.25 | morsing | So it's not my fault then? |
| 12:23.31 | murb | adn tehy have a cisco router posisbly. |
| 12:23.50 | morsing | Do I need to complain to my hosting center? |
| 12:23.50 | murb | although that packet is trunkcated can you try tcpdump -s 1500 -evv ? |
| 12:24.08 | murb | it shouldn't be unnormal to see spanning tree. |
| 12:24.33 | morsing | murb: I can run that but I need to wait for it to disconnect again |
| 12:25.00 | murb | what are your disconnections looking like? You are running ssh or somthing and teh connection is killed? |
| 12:25.03 | murb | can you see by what? |
| 12:25.14 | murb | does it time out or ist the connection reset? |
| 12:25.37 | murb | could they or someone else on that network also be using your IP address? |
| 12:26.33 | SpudULike | The drive which has the lvm filesystem on it also has a /boot partition. There is an initrd file on that /boot partition, along with a vmlinuz and a grub directory. Is it safe to add an entry in my existing grub/mnu.lst file pointing to this /boot partition? |
| 12:28.01 | murb | SpudULike: set somthing like root (hd1,2) then initrd thatinird etc |
| 13:42.48 | Cope | hello colin |
| 13:57.25 | George | moo |
| 13:59.42 | Cope | hi George |
| 14:00.42 | *** join/#gllug gregj (n=gj@62.121.136.6) |
| 14:00.59 | George | ello |
| 14:08.53 | Cope | hi George |
| 14:09.37 | murb | George: fixed your dns yet? |
| 14:14.10 | Cope | what on earth is fribidi? and why does fvwm require it!? |
| 14:15.04 | Leeds | free bidirectional library - support for Hebrew and Arabic |
| 14:15.26 | Cope | Leeds: indeed; so why on earth would fvwm require it? |
| 14:15.34 | Leeds | this is a binary package? |
| 14:15.42 | Cope | its an rpm |
| 14:16.02 | Cope | so the rpm was build with hebrew/arabic support.. |
| 14:16.10 | Cope | handy |
| 14:16.21 | Leeds | and why shouldn't Israelis and Arabs be able to use the package in their native language? |
| 14:16.29 | Cope | Leeds: they certainly should |
| 14:17.07 | Cope | but its not what I would expect in a generic package - but maybe that shows a western/english-centric perspective |
| 14:17.14 | Leeds | personally, that's one of the reasons I like building/installing from source :-) |
| 14:17.27 | Cope | Leeds: i am coming back to this view |
| 14:17.51 | Leeds | but yes, you might expect it to be default in an arab-targetted distro, but optional otherwise |
| 14:18.11 | Leeds | might be nice to have something halfway between linked libraries and dlopened libraries... |
| 14:18.35 | Leeds | i.e. weakly-linked |
| 14:18.41 | Cope | well i tried to build fribidi fro, source |
| 14:18.47 | Cope | but got barfed at |
| 14:19.05 | Leeds | one would assume there's a fribidi rpm available from the same source as the fvwm one |
| 14:19.46 | Cope | that's a big assumption to make |
| 14:20.06 | Cope | and its very unwise to mix and match rpms from different repositoroes |
| 14:20.14 | Leeds | or from the core OS repository |
| 14:20.25 | Leeds | I would assume the package would be in one of those two places |
| 14:20.34 | Cope | there isn't one in the core OS repository for the version i have afaict |
| 14:20.40 | Cope | that's the first place I looked |
| 14:20.51 | Cope | anyway - here's the barf: |
| 14:20.53 | Cope | <puke> |
| 14:20.56 | Cope | checking for glib-config-2.0... no |
| 14:20.57 | Cope | checking for GLIB - version >= 1.3.1... no |
| 14:20.57 | Cope | *** The glib-config-2.0 script installed by GLIB could not be found |
| 14:20.57 | Cope | *** If GLIB was installed in PREFIX, make sure PREFIX/bin is in |
| 14:20.57 | Cope | *** your path, or set the GLIB_CONFIG_2_0 environment variable to the |
| 14:20.59 | Cope | *** full path to glib-config-2.0. |
| 14:21.01 | Cope | checking for glib-config... no |
| 14:21.04 | Leeds | ugh |
| 14:21.04 | Cope | checking for GLIB - version >= 1.2.0... no |
| 14:21.07 | Cope | *** The glib-config script installed by GLIB could not be found |
| 14:21.09 | Cope | *** If GLIB was installed in PREFIX, make sure PREFIX/bin is in |
| 14:21.12 | Cope | *** your path, or set the GLIB_CONFIG environment variable to the |
| 14:21.14 | Cope | *** full path to glib-config. |
| 14:21.17 | Cope | configure: error: Test for GLIB failed. See the file 'INSTALL' for help |
| 14:21.20 | Cope | </puke> |
| 14:21.30 | Cope | the file INSTALL wasn't helpful |
| 14:21.34 | Leeds | I assume you have glib installed |
| 14:22.03 | Cope | yep |
| 14:22.15 | Cope | glib2-2.2.3-2.0 |
| 14:22.27 | Cope | and |
| 14:22.29 | Leeds | is the fribidi release quite old? |
| 14:22.31 | Cope | glib-1.2.10-11.1 |
| 14:23.03 | Leeds | is there a glib-config of any sort on the system? |
| 14:23.33 | Cope | not that I could see |
| 14:23.46 | Cope | but yes, now you m ention it the release is very old |
| 14:23.57 | Leeds | because most things use pkg-config nowadays |
| 14:25.24 | Cope | new one worked fine at ./configure |
| 14:25.41 | Cope | so what was I doing wrong? |
| 14:26.14 | Cope | hmmm |
| 14:26.38 | Leeds | as I said, I assume the new one is using pkg-config rather than glib-config |
| 14:26.48 | Cope | i'm not sure what that means |
| 14:27.54 | murb | Cope: glib-config is a shellscript which gives you useful paths for includes and libs |
| 14:28.29 | murb | pkg-config is a more generic version of that. |
| 14:29.08 | Cope | k |
| 14:30.02 | George | murb: my dns has been fixed for ages |
| 14:30.15 | George | murb: it was fixed a few hours after it happened |
| 14:30.26 | George | murb: I was given root access to the DNS server... |
| 14:30.36 | murb | George: well then you can fix it then. |
| 14:31.13 | Cope | gah... |
| 14:31.46 | murb | for a start everything in the SOA is set to 300 seconds |
| 14:31.49 | murb | is this on purpose? |
| 14:32.22 | Cope | ]# ls -l /usr/local/lib/libfribidi.so.0 |
| 14:32.23 | Cope | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 19 Oct 22 14:25 /usr/local/lib/libfribidi.so.0 -> libfribidi.so.0.0.0 |
| 14:32.33 | Cope | # rpm -ivh fvwm-2.5.13-1.i386.rpm |
| 14:32.33 | Cope | error: Failed dependencies: |
| 14:32.34 | Cope | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:32.41 | Cope | its there, silly! |
| 14:33.43 | Cope | right. I'm going to build fvwm from source now. |
| 14:33.48 | Cope | gah |
| 14:33.51 | murb | strace -e open,stat ...? |
| 14:37.37 | Cope | murb: the rpmdb of course doesn't know I've installed libfribidi |
| 14:38.03 | murb | Cope: so force deps. |
| 14:40.17 | Cope | hmm, i need libstroke too; |
| 14:40.38 | Cope | but libstrike bitches: |
| 14:40.39 | Cope | checking for X... no |
| 14:40.39 | Cope | checking for XOpenDisplay in -lX11... no |
| 14:40.39 | Cope | configure: error: Cannot find -lX11 library |
| 14:40.49 | Cope | I'm using X right now! |
| 14:41.32 | murb | but you probably don't have the -dev package installed do you? |
| 14:41.40 | Cope | unlikely |
| 14:42.39 | Cope | well, no, I know |
| 14:42.54 | Cope | not that I have a clue what they call them |
| 14:44.13 | Cope | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:44.16 | Cope | apparently |
| 14:44.24 | Cope | so yum informs me |
| 14:44.46 | George | yay for food. |
| 14:51.12 | Cope | but its fun |
| 14:51.16 | Cope | and a good learning experience |
| 14:51.30 | Leeds | true :-) |
| 14:51.32 | Cope | and i don't care if I hose the box, its only a test machine anyway |
| 14:52.07 | Leeds | ah, the best kind |
| 14:52.13 | Cope | hmm, installing libstroke appears not to have provided.... libstroke, at least not where expected |
| 14:52.23 | Cope | open("/usr/lib/libstroke.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) |
| 14:52.24 | Cope | open("/usr/lib/libstroke.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) |
| 14:52.38 | Leeds | /usr/local/lib? /usr/X*/lib? |
| 14:52.43 | Cope | just looking! |
| 14:53.02 | Cope | /usr/local/lib |
| 14:53.41 | Leeds | I tend to put /usr/local/lib in ld.so.conf |
| 14:54.14 | Cope | thats nicer |
| 14:54.23 | Leeds | uh... you did run ldconfig, right? |
| 14:55.18 | Leeds | assuming, of course, it's ld trying to open the library and it's not being dlopened |
| 14:57.16 | Cope | right - we have fvwm |
| 14:57.19 | Cope | :) |
| 14:57.49 | murb | Leeds: rpm etc tend to run ldconfig all the time, "just in case" |
| 14:58.52 | Leeds | murb: doesn't do any harm other than wasting some resources while it's running |
| 14:59.19 | Leeds | in some ways, it would be nice if it would search the cache, then the filesystem, before giving up |
| 14:59.36 | murb | b) could be bad. |
| 14:59.49 | murb | especially if you had broken nfs mounts. |
| 14:59.49 | Leeds | why? |
| 15:00.03 | Leeds | suppose so |
| 15:00.07 | murb | Leeds: causes things to block nearly forever. |
| 15:00.51 | Leeds | yes, well that's a different broken-ness |
| 15:01.19 | murb | but a non uncommon feature. |
| 15:02.10 | Leeds | true |
| 15:02.23 | Leeds | bah, Unix sucks |
| 15:09.41 | Leeds | uh... |
| 15:09.52 | Cope | ;) |
| 15:10.02 | Leeds | if you want something which looks like afterstep... |
| 15:10.05 | Leeds | why not just use windowmaker? |
| 15:10.13 | Cope | you miss the point |
| 15:10.24 | Cope | the point is fvwm has the ability to look like anything |
| 15:10.42 | Cope | and with fvwm-themes you can just pick from loads of themes, all radically different |
| 15:10.44 | Leeds | true |
| 15:11.32 | Cope | eww |
| 15:11.33 | Cope | cde! |
| 15:18.00 | Leeds | ugh |
| 15:18.02 | Leeds | ugh |
| 15:18.05 | Leeds | ugh |
| 15:18.17 | Cope | :) |
| 15:24.38 | George | food. |
| 15:26.52 | JAV | good afternoon! |
| 15:39.21 | Cope | ibot nslookup evaluator.clsa.com |
| 15:39.26 | Cope | oh good |
| 15:39.36 | Cope | ibot: cope |
| 15:39.37 | ibot | well, cope is a twat, or prone to exaggeration and not a twat |
| 15:39.59 | Cope | ibot fvwm |
| 15:40.00 | ibot | rumour has it, fvwm is a window manager. binaries at http://monmothas.shacknet.nu/ipaq/fvwm/ |
| 15:57.41 | George | hrmm |
| 15:57.43 | George | fvwm. |
| 15:57.45 | George | hrmm. |
| 15:57.50 | George | is that like fvwm2? |
| 15:59.04 | morsing | fvwm is still the best! |
| 15:59.07 | morsing | Mmm... TSM |
| 15:59.17 | morsing | ~seen itsbruce |
| 15:59.23 | ibot | itsbruce <~brichards@router-office.fotango.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #gllug, 78d 22h 51m 48s ago, saying: '\quit'. |
| 15:59.34 | morsing | What happened to him? |
| 15:59.37 | George | ibot: 2053/1.175 |
| 15:59.39 | ibot | 1747.234042553191 |
| 16:01.00 | morsing | wethrin? |
| 16:04.37 | morsing | http://www.morsing.cc/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=World.Europe.UK.Hades |
| 16:09.43 | morsing | OGG?! I didn't ask for that... |
| 16:11.09 | mozrat | goblins |
| 16:13.44 | mozrat | George, did you get your tp yet?? |
| 16:14.08 | George | nope |
| 16:14.11 | George | ordering it tomorrow |
| 16:14.16 | mozrat | bah |
| 16:14.18 | George | and it looks like I'm not getting the absolute top of the line |
| 16:14.22 | George | I'm getting.. near to that |
| 16:14.52 | mozrat | get it insured, i dropped mine today (no damage luckily) |
| 16:14.59 | George | erm |
| 16:15.00 | George | why? |
| 16:15.23 | mozrat | it wasnt on purpose obviously |
| 16:15.31 | George | yeah |
| 16:15.37 | George | but why get it insured? |
| 16:15.40 | George | thinkpads are meant to be well built |
| 16:15.51 | morsing | George: What do you need a teepee for? |
| 16:16.08 | morsing | Tell me how I can traceroute to Google but not ping?!? |
| 16:16.19 | George | morsing: why not? |
| 16:20.17 | mozrat | morsing they use different ICMP codes |
| 16:20.35 | morsing | mozrat: That cannot possible make a difference |
| 16:21.44 | morsing | Some things will just never work in Linux... |
| 16:22.40 | George | I've done it before |
| 16:22.43 | George | kio_audiocd |
| 16:22.43 | mozrat | morsing: they might block certain ICMP codes |
| 16:23.12 | morsing | emil:/home/morsing# ping www.google.com |
| 16:23.12 | morsing | PING www.l.google.com (66.102.9.147) 56(84) bytes of data. |
| 16:23.12 | morsing | 64 bytes from 66.102.9.147: icmp_seq=1 ttl=244 time=11.7 ms |
| 16:23.23 | morsing | Works from emil.morsing.cc |
| 16:23.26 | mozrat | oh |
| 16:23.39 | mozrat | so you *can* ping google.com |
| 16:23.46 | morsing | George: The prblem is the encoders not the frontend |
| 16:24.06 | morsing | mozrat: Not from my home computer |
| 16:24.08 | mozrat | George: get it insured as you'll be gutted when you break it otherwise |
| 16:24.16 | George | mozrat: erm |
| 16:24.22 | George | I don't break equipment |
| 16:24.25 | morsing | George: Does kio_audiocd encode by itself |
| 16:24.27 | morsing | ? |
| 16:24.27 | mozrat | morsing: I would guess some intermediate device is dropping ICMP code 0 |
| 16:24.35 | George | morsing: no idea. I'd assume not |
| 16:24.38 | mozrat | but if you can ping other hosts I agree it is weird |
| 16:24.57 | morsing | Hmmm... I think you're right |
| 16:25.06 | mozrat | George: OK |
| 16:25.26 | mozrat | George: If you drop it ever you'll hear me saying "told you so" |
| 16:25.41 | George | mozrat: well |
| 16:25.51 | George | mozrat: a thinkpad should withstand a small drop |
| 16:25.56 | George | like, from a bed |
| 16:26.05 | morsing | Can anyone give me the name of an mp3 encoder that the Mandrake packaging system knows about and the works with Grip? |
| 16:26.19 | mozrat | George: yes, it is generally tough |
| 16:26.28 | George | ;) |
| 16:49.49 | mozrat | Looks around what? The corner? |
| 16:49.56 | mozrat | the back of your monitor? |
| 16:52.54 | Cope | morsing: ping and traceroute use different icmp codes; some may be blocked; interesting there's also a difference in traceroute implementation between windows and unix; windows uses icmp echo request; unix tends to use udp datagrams; solaris ping allows you to use either. |
| 16:53.44 | Cope | s/solaris ping/solaris traceroute/ |
| 16:54.45 | mozrat | Cope, which debunks the suggestion on the mailing list that Windows tracert is a BSD port |
| 16:54.48 | mozrat | I don't think it is |
| 16:55.30 | Cope | no |
| 16:55.39 | Cope | i'm certain its ms from scratch |
| 16:56.06 | mozrat | ftp.exe is an obvious port with 'ls' and 'quit' commands |
| 16:56.16 | mozrat | when cmd.exe uses exit |
| 16:56.16 | Cope | yep |
| 16:56.24 | mozrat | which catches me out every single time |
| 16:56.29 | Cope | bye! |
| 16:56.35 | Cope | </ftp> |
| 16:56.45 | mozrat | :) |
| 16:57.31 | mozrat | BUT... mindless advocacy is ASS? |
| 16:57.43 | Cope | we (the oss community) just look like complete twats for dissing microsoft willy-nilly, and without anything other than hearsay and prejudice as supporting evidence. |
| 16:58.50 | Cope | sure, I don't much like 'microsoft'; I quite strongly disklike much of windows xp; but there is a lot in the windows world which is very very clever, very well designed, clean, robust, fast, scaleable.... |
| 16:59.23 | Cope | sure, I would spec a linux system over a windows system 8/10 times, but not always |
| 17:00.09 | mozrat | *nod* |
| 17:00.20 | mozrat | A lot of the typical arguments against Windows are pre-Windows 2000 |
| 17:00.39 | Cope | and just mindlessly slagging windows off really doesn't do the linux image much good, and simply perpetuates the fud-ish myth of linux not being a true professional OS, and rather the domain of foaming-at-mouth, sandle-wearing, bearded hippies. |
| 17:01.20 | Cope | yeah, nt4 was quite poor... but that was a *long* time ago |
| 17:01.49 | Cope | windows 95 / 98 are horrible too... but hey, that's 10 year old technology |
| 17:02.11 | Cope | we'd be quick to attack a microsoft advocate slaggaing a 1.x kernel! |
| 17:02.14 | mozrat | I don't think Linux in 1998 was much fun :) |
| 17:02.19 | Cope | no |
| 17:02.22 | Cope | not at all |
| 17:03.10 | mozrat | The point I made about starting half of the OS after the user has logged on is a real problem with Windows |
| 17:03.27 | Cope | yeah, that's rubbish |
| 17:03.43 | mozrat | even with a new install is it's practically unusable for the first 3-5 of use |
| 17:03.46 | Cope | and I don't understand why it takes so long to shutdown |
| 17:04.09 | mozrat | @Cope have you played with initng yet? |
| 17:04.12 | Cope | and having to reboot 3 times for a standard patch install is a joke |
| 17:04.47 | mozrat | neither have it but apparently it cuts the boot time for Linux by about a third |
| 17:04.55 | mozrat | neither have I, I mean |
| 17:24.26 | Cope | ooh |
| 17:39.53 | Cope | morsing: are you there? |
| 18:00.59 | morsing | Yes |
| 18:03.39 | Cope | morsing: I just posted to the list about traceroute and ping, since it was relevant... |
| 18:05.05 | morsing | Thanks |
| 18:05.12 | Cope | I'd need to check the rfc to see what the icmp codes are though, but its not uncommon to block icmp echo reply, but allow time-exceed and port unavailable. |
| 18:17.22 | benmf | 30may77 |
| 18:19.37 | Leeds | benmf: your birthday? |
| 18:19.53 | Leeds | in the wrong window? :-) |
| 19:30.36 | Cope | hello benmf |
| 19:30.47 | Cope | (ben fitzgerald we assume?) |
| 19:31.10 | Cope | Leeds: What on earth are you doing awake? |
| 19:43.31 | *** join/#gllug Blissex (i=pcg@82-69-39-138.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 19:45.02 | Cope | hi peter |
| 19:45.44 | Cope | interestingly since last we spoke 2 more disks have died - all from the same period of time :) |
| 19:46.18 | Blissex | Hi! I am sorry to hear that. |
| 19:46.50 | Cope | bah, its fine - to be expected really |
| 19:46.52 | *** join/#gllug George_ (i=george@host-83-146-61-45.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 19:46.59 | Cope | ah, the raving poof |
| 19:47.02 | Blissex | Guessing wildly, it might the usual ''bad batch''/''bad carton'' story or environmental conditions. |
| 19:47.03 | Cope | hello George_ |
| 19:47.10 | George_ | hello |
| 19:47.18 | Cope | Blissex: interesting point re: environment |
| 19:47.41 | Cope | Blissex: Cooling is nowhere near as good, and its perhaps a bit dustier than before |
| 19:48.17 | Blissex | As to bad batch/carton I make sure I buy drives of different brands and if same brand really different models (as in: different technologies). |
| 19:48.35 | Cope | Servers used to live in a stone larder with 2 outside walls, and good ventilation; they're now just on shelves in my 'bedroom' |
| 19:48.43 | Blissex | I know of a RAID manufacturer that puts in the same RAID box drives from the same delivery carton... Bad idea. |
| 19:48.50 | Cope | Blissex: excellent idea, I shall do likewise next time. |
| 19:49.07 | *** kick/#gllug [George!n=sanelson@vm.wibbleworld.org.uk] by Cope (Cope) |
| 19:50.16 | Blissex | I have the following drives now: |
| 19:50.21 | Blissex | WDC WD800AB-00CBA0 |
| 19:50.22 | Blissex | HDS722516VLAT80 |
| 19:50.22 | Blissex | Maxtor 4D080H4 |
| 19:50.22 | Blissex | ST3160021A |
| 19:50.27 | Cope | mmhmm |
| 19:50.36 | Cope | i have deathstars and maxtors |
| 19:50.52 | Blissex | its 2x(80+160), all of very different types. Mostly same with the external backups. |
| 19:51.06 | Blissex | just in case... |
| 19:51.35 | Cope | yeah |
| 19:51.37 | Cope | good thinking |
| 19:51.55 | *** join/#gllug George (i=george@kde/developer/gwright) |
| 19:51.57 | George | RUDENESS |
| 19:52.21 | Cope | you've got to expect it sometimes, as junior fag. |
| 19:52.25 | Blissex | George: you should be out lecherously on a saturday night :-) |
| 19:52.25 | George | oiy |
| 19:52.30 | George | lecherously? |
| 19:57.33 | *** join/#gllug Catalyst` (n=Catalyst@jamesmorse.plus.com) |
| 20:09.45 | George | Cope: you are incredibly odd |
| 20:29.21 | George | haha |
| 20:29.30 | George | one of the top 20 referrer searches for my site is "inherently evil" |
| 20:58.17 | *** join/#gllug AngelChild (n=Catalyst@jamesmorse.plus.com) |
| 21:05.49 | murb | George: you have 20 hits? |
| 21:10.30 | AngelChild | my site doesn't get many hits xD |
| 21:19.49 | Blissex | depends on what ''lots'' means too. |
| 21:20.16 | AngelChild | more than one a month :) |
| 21:23.11 | Blissex | since the 15th I got a a bit more than 400 hits on the ALSA page... Almost 70 lost souls a day on the way to audio perdition. |
| 23:29.28 | *** join/#gllug George_ (i=george@host-83-146-61-45.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 23:29.49 | mozrat | George_!! |
| 23:30.53 | George | my connection sucks |
| 23:30.59 | mozrat | heh |
| 23:31.43 | George | lag 22.29 |
| 23:31.48 | George | that's crap |
| 23:33.45 | mozrat | where are you connecting from? |
| 23:33.47 | mozrat | school? |
| 23:36.25 | George | no |
| 23:36.27 | George | I'm at home |
| 23:38.25 | mozrat | why so slow then? |
| 23:43.38 | George | no idea |
| 23:43.43 | George | being particularly crap today |
| 23:53.41 | George | http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?George%20Wright |
| 23:55.03 | mozrat | ???? |
| 23:55.09 | George | :D |