| 00:08.05 | mozrat | Leeds: I don't know about xdpyinfo but I got it from the xorg logs :) |
| 00:08.35 | mozrat | xdpyinfo is cleaner I admit :) |
| 00:08.50 | Leeds | it is the canonical tool in such issues |
| 00:09.03 | Leeds | along with such useful tools as glxinfo and xvinfo nowadays |
| 00:09.21 | mozrat | time for bed |
| 00:09.46 | mozrat | nn all |
| 00:09.51 | Leeds | night |
| 00:11.11 | rhowe | nn |
| 00:12.33 | wethrin | night |
| 00:18.21 | George | ibot: 273/300 |
| 00:18.22 | ibot | 0.91 |
| 00:19.24 | George | ibot: ((273*7)-249)/6 |
| 00:19.26 | ibot | 277 |
| 00:19.35 | George | ibot: 277/300 |
| 00:19.36 | ibot | 0.923333333333 |
| 01:33.16 | *** join/#gllug stephen (i=stephen@windsor.org.uk) |
| 05:14.18 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n219078198174.netvigator.com) |
| 05:23.54 | *** join/#gllug LeedsHK (n=richardc@ipvpn095205.netvigator.com) |
| 05:39.46 | *** join/#gllug Gonzo (n=Gonzo@82-35-237-46.cable.ubr03.hari.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 07:00.00 | *** join/#gllug pdr (n=pdr@n14z172l102.broadband.ctm.net) |
| 07:07.12 | Leeds | afternoon pdr |
| 07:08.17 | pdr | hey leeds |
| 07:08.42 | pdr | was thinking of heading over to HK this afternoon |
| 07:08.58 | Leeds | hmm... |
| 07:09.02 | Leeds | minor problem my end |
| 07:09.33 | Leeds | did my leg in this morning, and I'm either hobbling or walking with a stick right now |
| 07:10.26 | JAV | morning |
| 07:10.36 | Leeds | hey JAV |
| 07:15.39 | pdr | shit eh |
| 07:15.44 | pdr | hey JAV |
| 07:15.51 | pdr | how did you do that? |
| 07:17.01 | JAV | not bad to be monday morning :) |
| 07:18.57 | Leeds | running for a bus! |
| 07:19.10 | JAV | Leeds: I hope you be ok soon |
| 07:21.18 | Leeds | thanks, me too :-) |
| 07:22.28 | pdr | how bad is it? |
| 07:23.56 | Leeds | I'm sure I'll be fine in a day or few, but it's not nice at the moment |
| 07:24.21 | Leeds | feeling better now that it was this morning, but that could also be the nice pills the doc gave me |
| 07:25.44 | Leeds | pdr: are you having fun? |
| 07:36.43 | Leeds | ah, the pinacle of modern science - a bag of frozen brussels sprouts |
| 07:49.02 | pdr | :-) |
| 07:49.12 | pdr | having a moderate amount of fun i suppose |
| 07:49.33 | pdr | hanging with my dear old Mum isn't a huge amount of fun at best |
| 07:50.27 | pdr | sounds like the leg is not so bad, but I do hope it gets better soon |
| 07:51.57 | Leeds | done the tourist things? |
| 07:52.16 | Leeds | actually, as I lie here on my bed, it's not really hurting at all... but when I get up... !!! |
| 08:08.42 | Cope | morning |
| 08:09.07 | Leeds | morning |
| 08:09.10 | Cope | :) |
| 08:09.39 | Cope | how did you hurt your leg? |
| 08:10.12 | Leeds | running for the bus |
| 08:10.17 | *** join/#gllug SlayerXP (n=martin@s01i32-0447.no.powertech.net) |
| 08:10.28 | Leeds | hey SlayerXP |
| 08:10.36 | SlayerXP | yo |
| 08:10.45 | Cope | hi SlayerXP |
| 08:11.25 | SlayerXP | lo cope |
| 08:12.22 | Leeds | Cope: originally thought it was a bad cramp, but it was worse than that |
| 08:12.34 | SlayerXP | he was dead, Jim? |
| 08:12.58 | Leeds | SlayerXP: my leg stopped working properly |
| 08:13.23 | SlayerXP | that's called being drunk. no vodka before 9am from now on. |
| 08:19.07 | Leeds | seems I tore my calf muscle slightly |
| 08:19.28 | SlayerXP | ahh that hurts |
| 08:19.33 | SlayerXP | done that several times |
| 08:20.56 | Leeds | as I said. just before you joined - running for the bus :-) |
| 08:31.08 | mozrat | Morning |
| 08:31.17 | mozrat | Sorry to hear about the leg Leeds |
| 08:31.26 | Leeds | mozrat: thanks |
| 08:31.29 | mozrat | the idea of buses is to reduce tiredness and injury to ones leg :) |
| 08:31.31 | pdr | tourist things? yeah, tbh there's little touristy stuff here i would actually care to see anyway |
| 08:31.31 | pdr | the peak is cool tho |
| 08:31.44 | mozrat | SlayerXP: me too (ex-rock climber!) |
| 08:32.09 | Leeds | pdr: peak in macau? |
| 08:37.25 | pdr | nah, in hk |
| 08:37.25 | pdr | seen just about everything in macau now |
| 08:37.25 | pdr | so sitting around doing www.pythonchallenge.com |
| 08:37.27 | pdr | :-) |
| 08:38.08 | mozrat | pdr, thats fun |
| 08:39.31 | pdr | indeed |
| 08:40.08 | pdr | thought I'd start again too, just for added amusement |
| 08:42.25 | Leeds | pdr: I would expect to be up to at least jumping in a cab and meeting somewhere for sitting-down stuff tomorrow evening |
| 08:51.59 | Cope | is kernel.shmmin = 1 |
| 08:52.03 | Cope | valid? |
| 08:52.14 | Cope | I've never seen shmmin under /proc/sys/kernel |
| 08:59.19 | pdr | Leeds: sounds good, i have to head into hk on wednesday to get my aunt and uncle from the airport anyway, so maybe that's a better option? |
| 08:59.46 | pdr | or do you have crash-space for tuesday night pehaps? |
| 09:00.26 | Leeds | crash-space here is very very very limited, given that I've got a studio apartment with a small sofa |
| 09:00.58 | Leeds | if you needed somewhere, I could ask my cousins if you can use their spare room |
| 09:06.51 | Leeds | bishop lei |
| 09:07.50 | Leeds | I'm happy to ask my cousins if you want |
| 09:07.55 | *** join/#gllug kbsingh (n=kbsingh@nat1.lon1.uk.xinit.com) |
| 09:08.59 | Leeds | cheap is relative in HK when it comes to paying for a bed |
| 09:09.01 | Cope | what kernel parameter (if any) is the equivalent of setting ulimit -u? |
| 09:09.06 | kbsingh | morning |
| 09:09.09 | Cope | hi kb |
| 09:09.57 | Erwin | Cope: It's a per-process thing |
| 09:10.05 | Erwin | Well. Per -user. |
| 09:10.08 | mozrat | which mailing list software handles digest subscription by mailing a digest with dozens of attachments? |
| 09:10.11 | mozrat | gah |
| 09:10.14 | mozrat | thats crazy |
| 09:10.40 | Cope | Erwin: so it needs to be in a shell profile for setting on invocation? |
| 09:11.02 | Cope | i thought there might be a generic setting for all users |
| 09:11.42 | SlayerXP | mozrat: CrazyMLM |
| 09:12.36 | mozrat | SlayerXP: nuts |
| 09:13.02 | wethrin | morning |
| 09:13.29 | mozrat | SlayerXP: did you once say you wrote part of the O'Reilly book "Squid: The definitive Guide"? |
| 09:13.35 | mozrat | as I bought it the other day |
| 09:13.57 | SlayerXP | mozrat: yes, and no. |
| 09:14.13 | murb | how are squids best served? |
| 09:14.29 | mozrat | murb, fried in butter, I had it the other week |
| 09:14.31 | mozrat | very nice |
| 09:14.33 | Leeds | murb: fried? |
| 09:15.16 | SlayerXP | mozrat: I originally signed up to write it with Duane. However Duane and I failed to make an effective authorship team, mainly due to him never bothering to to "cvs update" and then simply overwriting whatever work I did. |
| 09:15.56 | SlayerXP | hence the section on getting, compiling and installing squid was written twice as was the directives list. |
| 09:16.19 | mozrat | I see |
| 09:16.23 | SlayerXP | after which I got bored and gave up and it was contractually easier just to say "keep the bits you like, have fun" |
| 09:16.32 | pdr | Leeds: yeah, none are exactly cheap. I really don't wish to impose on your cousins though, so it's probably best if i just head in for the day on wednesday and we can meet up that evening? |
| 09:16.32 | SlayerXP | i din't think I was even creditted |
| 09:16.36 | SlayerXP | don't |
| 09:17.57 | Leeds | pdr: your mum did put me up - it's only fair :-) |
| 09:17.58 | wethrin | pdr: Lucky for some being able to just take trips to HK :) |
| 09:18.20 | mozrat | SlayerXP: you weren't :( |
| 09:18.42 | SlayerXP | no, figures. |
| 09:20.56 | Leeds | pdr: depending on how I'm feeling on Wednesday evening, http://www.geoexpat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5787#post38903 ? |
| 09:21.30 | SlayerXP | "and thanks to Martin, who's work I ignored and then used without giving any mention" was hardly likely to make it into the author foreward :) |
| 09:25.39 | *** join/#gllug IAmAI (i=hidden-u@83.222.114.3) |
| 09:29.53 | mozrat | Morning IAmAI |
| 09:29.53 | Erwin | Cope: There is some defaults file.. e.g. /etc/security/limits.conf |
| 09:30.05 | IAmAI | Hello, peeps. |
| 09:31.05 | Leeds | hi IAmAI |
| 09:31.54 | pdr | wethrin: indeed :-) |
| 09:32.25 | pdr | Leeds: sounds like fun |
| 09:32.37 | pdr | Leeds: I'm up for anything really :-) |
| 09:33.30 | wethrin | pdr: Where are you now, then? |
| 09:35.03 | pdr | wethrin: in macau |
| 09:35.19 | wethrin | Lucky for some :-P |
| 09:35.30 | pdr | it's my mum's 60th birthday, so i've been forced into it |
| 09:35.44 | wethrin | Well, it's a trip outside London :) |
| 09:35.46 | pdr | lucky? you haven't met my mum i guess |
| 09:36.07 | wethrin | No, I haven't |
| 09:37.52 | pdr | she's a little eccentric to put it mildly |
| 09:39.05 | Leeds | I think that's fair :-) |
| 09:39.07 | wethrin | heh |
| 09:39.16 | Cope | Erwin: looking |
| 09:39.19 | wethrin | Arguably, most of us on here are a bit eccentric too |
| 09:47.38 | pdr | not like my mum tho |
| 09:47.55 | Leeds | pdr: did she enjoy her summer trekking? |
| 09:57.35 | pdr | i dare not ask, but i assume so |
| 09:57.56 | Leeds | :-) |
| 10:09.40 | *** join/#gllug pdr_ (n=pdr@n14z172l10.broadband.ctm.net) |
| 10:15.33 | Cope | Erwin: any idea how to make such chages take effect? |
| 10:26.15 | wethrin | "Unable to open temporary file" indeed. After only running for about a week |
| 10:28.46 | rhowe | wethrin: Something pruning your /tmp, perhaps? |
| 10:30.17 | rhowe | wethrin: mutt's IMAP support can be fairly unstable at times, too. Timeouts can make it segv |
| 10:32.49 | Erwin | Cope: Well, log in again, I think? |
| 10:33.28 | Cope | it being a pam thing |
| 10:43.20 | *** join/#gllug AngelChild (n=Catalyst@jamesmorse.plus.com) |
| 10:46.49 | mozrat | woo AngelChild |
| 10:47.04 | AngelChild | yay morsing |
| 10:47.07 | AngelChild | mozrat* |
| 10:47.11 | AngelChild | ...rats |
| 10:47.26 | kbsingh | 'ello people of #gllug |
| 10:47.34 | AngelChild | knichiwa |
| 10:48.32 | AngelChild | :< |
| 10:49.00 | *** join/#gllug _ubuntu (n=ubuntu@p548FBABC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:49.34 | mozrat | hello _ubuntu :) |
| 10:49.51 | AngelChild | wow, an entire distro :o |
| 10:50.06 | kbsingh | heh |
| 10:52.51 | *** part/#gllug _ubuntu (n=ubuntu@p548FBABC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:53.09 | mozrat | bye bye _ubuntu |
| 10:54.36 | kbsingh | mozrat, on vacation ? |
| 10:54.40 | kbsingh | doing anything interesting ? |
| 10:54.49 | mozrat | kbsingh: not really |
| 10:54.53 | mozrat | just hanging around |
| 10:55.03 | mozrat | haven't taken any holiday yet this year some how |
| 10:55.16 | mozrat | so - if I don't get it all in I lose it |
| 10:55.28 | kbsingh | better get your act togehter soon, the year's almost gone. Xmas around the bend |
| 10:55.33 | mozrat | indeed |
| 10:56.59 | kbsingh | I hear Brazil is nice this time of the year |
| 10:57.38 | mozrat | I'm sure it is! |
| 10:58.28 | kbsingh | because i changed jobs, I lost all my vacation time this year ( well, almost all ) |
| 11:03.23 | mozrat | sucks |
| 11:05.09 | Leeds | hmm... food |
| 11:13.42 | wethrin | rhowe: I'm not using IMAP |
| 11:14.03 | wethrin | And I'm not aware of anything pruning /tmp |
| 11:31.07 | pdr2 | Leeds: you still there? |
| 11:32.28 | pdr | I lived there before back in 2000, was great fun |
| 11:32.55 | pdr | lots of linux jobs there at the moment too, but obviously the pay isn't terribly high |
| 11:33.04 | wethrin | But living cost is cheap, isn't it? |
| 11:33.17 | wethrin | pdr: So, what're you up to at the moment, other than travelling various places? |
| 11:47.10 | Cope | :) |
| 11:48.34 | pdr | wethrin: true, very cheap if it's anything like five years ago |
| 11:48.48 | wethrin | Aye |
| 11:50.59 | pdr | i'm not exactly up to much really |
| 11:50.59 | pdr | just travelling |
| 11:50.59 | pdr | been around africa and europe in the last three months |
| 11:51.04 | pdr | wouldn't mind getting another job soon |
| 11:51.08 | pdr | was going to see if the xen lot needed anyone with my skills |
| 11:51.46 | wethrin | sounds nice |
| 11:51.55 | George | I know a couple of brazilian linux guys |
| 12:19.09 | Leeds | pdr: back... just popped out |
| 12:20.32 | Leeds | I now have a 'usual' at the chinese cafe across the road: big plate of veg with fried noodles :-) |
| 12:35.10 | Cope | rss just operates over http, right? |
| 12:41.43 | Leeds | yes |
| 12:43.13 | Leeds | in terms of serving it, any http server should do, although one which can generate the headers for efficient polling would be prefered |
| 12:44.03 | Cope | nah, just a case of allowing rss feeds into a server, so its just bi-directional http; i wondered if there was some control port too |
| 12:44.03 | Leeds | http://ouwho.co.uk/bbcnews/ :-) |
| 12:44.31 | Leeds | right |
| 12:47.23 | Leeds | heh heh heh... from this week's Economist letters page: |
| 12:47.30 | Leeds | "SIR ? As an inhabitant of Amsterdam employed in IT, I am fairly confident that the ?Ajax? you refer to as the top topic on the Technorati search engine for blogs is not our local football team, but is in fact the acronym for Asynchronous JavaScript and XML, the latest hype in website development (Face value, October 8th)." |
| 12:49.06 | Cope | Leeds: i read that! |
| 12:49.12 | Cope | economist++ |
| 12:49.44 | Leeds | online access to more than 100% of the magazine is rather nice :-) |
| 12:55.42 | JAV | profesional journalism sometimes is not what it should :) |
| 12:56.30 | Leeds | at least they have the grace to print a slightly sarcastic letter rather than a boring correction |
| 12:56.59 | JAV | truly noticeable when they talk about astronomy, millions=billions :D |
| 12:57.28 | Leeds | yeah? |
| 13:00.10 | JAV | several years ago it happened quite often, you were watching tv and you say "whaaat?" in advanced topics |
| 13:02.27 | JAV | now it's more checked. I think internet was a great help in that |
| 13:02.40 | Leeds | you do know that there are two different meanings of billion, right? |
| 13:02.52 | JAV | yes :) |
| 13:03.24 | wethrin | Leeds: The Old English billion is slowly falling into disuse, though |
| 13:05.47 | murb | a billion parsecs from earth. |
| 13:13.38 | JAV | another thing I dislike from tv. They use the measure "soccer stadium" for very big things |
| 13:14.50 | mozrat | JAV, "the length of 3 london buses" is a fairly common TV measurement |
| 13:15.04 | JAV | forests area burned, etc |
| 13:15.10 | JAV | heh |
| 13:15.13 | mozrat | usually in terms of jumping a motorbike over that length |
| 13:16.33 | Leeds | from wikipedia, at the end of a very informative paragraph: "[For sources of this information, please refer to .... oh dear, where did I get that from?]" |
| 13:17.40 | murb | Leeds: because everything in wikipeida without a citation should be burnt. |
| 13:17.52 | murb | including gramma fixes. |
| 13:18.10 | Leeds | murb: not deniing that, but it's a rather strange thing to see in [] in the middle of the text |
| 13:18.30 | wethrin | mozrat: Is that a Bendy Bus or a Routemaster? |
| 13:19.17 | Leeds | borough council minibus |
| 13:27.04 | rhowe | o.O |
| 13:27.09 | rhowe | That was suprisingly easy |
| 13:27.32 | wethrin | You drunk! |
| 13:27.36 | rhowe | (modern-day E1111) |
| 13:27.41 | rhowe | s/1// |
| 13:28.08 | wethrin | Oh right. Not an electronic *hic* |
| 13:28.13 | Leeds | wethrin: surely EHIC is what you get when the computer is drunk? |
| 13:28.39 | wethrin | Leeds: You should have snuck that into Solaris' errno.h |
| 13:29.35 | Leeds | heh |
| 13:47.52 | Leeds | whoa, minix 3 |
| 13:47.57 | wethrin | Shocking! |
| 13:48.03 | wethrin | That's an even slower release cycle than Debian |
| 13:49.20 | George | not quite as slow as hurd |
| 13:50.10 | murb | ENOXENPORT. |
| 13:57.32 | pdr | i must be slow today, what is EHIC then? |
| 13:57.53 | rhowe | European Health ID Card |
| 13:57.59 | pdr | ah i see |
| 13:58.12 | rhowe | Free/cheaper medical treatment when travelling in the EU |
| 13:58.49 | pdr | sounds like i should get one |
| 13:59.12 | murb | successor to the E.111 |
| 13:59.17 | pdr | although i think my aussie medicare card covers me in EU |
| 13:59.28 | pdr | it certainly does here |
| 13:59.31 | murb | and only for emergency treatment. |
| 13:59.37 | pdr | er, in UK that is |
| 13:59.54 | murb | pdr: the NHS is free if you are resident in the uk. |
| 13:59.56 | pdr | i see |
| 14:00.22 | pdr | murb: only if you have worked here for at least six months iirc |
| 14:00.58 | murb | pdr: no work requirements, failed assylum seekers are even entitled, don't belive everything you read in the papers. |
| 14:03.43 | Leeds | in HK, you just pay for your medical stuff or take private insurance |
| 14:04.47 | Leeds | given that the difference in my *monthly* tax is more than I paid for retail medical treatment today, it doesn't seem totally appalling |
| 14:06.18 | murb | Leeds: do you have to pay for emergency treatment, air abulance costs etc if required? |
| 14:07.08 | Leeds | I would imagine so |
| 14:07.19 | Leeds | most people have insurance through work, I think |
| 14:07.40 | Leeds | the forms for my insurance are sitting on my desk at the office - I was going to fill them out today :-) |
| 14:08.16 | Leeds | and I don't know, but I'd imagine, that there is some emergency safety net from the government, but a very small one |
| 14:08.36 | murb | Leeds: in .de if you are not insured you have to pay the full costs. |
| 14:08.49 | murb | then they recover them from you leaving you with up to 700 euro of your own to keep. |
| 14:09.00 | Leeds | ibot change 373 hkd to gbp |
| 14:09.00 | murb | (if they think you are paying too much rent etc they can force you to move soemwhere cheaper etc) |
| 14:09.30 | Leeds | that's how much it cost me to see a doc and get a few pills - I also had an ultrasound, which cost a lot more |
| 14:09.43 | Leeds | but the basic cost isn't amazingly high |
| 14:09.58 | murb | Leeds: my girlfriend was inbetween training and starting a new job, and ended up with 600 euro for an abulance + 400 for treatmnet. |
| 14:10.11 | murb | because she forgot to fill in a form to be given the full insurance. |
| 14:10.16 | murb | (which would have been free) |
| 14:11.31 | Leeds | I am debating claiming mine on my travel insurance - which has about 3 days more cover on it |
| 14:11.51 | murb | Leeds: will it work without a return ticket? |
| 14:12.11 | murb | i'm rather suicidal, i went skiing this year without medial insurance. |
| 14:12.21 | murb | well i had ski insurance but it would only be valid with a return ticket. |
| 14:12.23 | *** join/#gllug IAmAI (i=hidden-u@83.222.114.3) |
| 14:12.30 | IAmAI | Hi. |
| 14:12.30 | murb | maybe i should have bought a ryanair ticket just in case. |
| 14:12.45 | Leeds | that is a good question... I do *have* a return ticket - just that it doesn't have a date on it |
| 14:12.47 | murb | (since the duration of the holiday would have been ok) |
| 14:13.00 | Leeds | I hit 90 days at the end of this week |
| 14:13.00 | IAmAI | Can anyone remind me of that Windows app that provides you with a Unix/Linux shell in Windows... |
| 14:13.03 | Leeds | evening IAmAI |
| 14:13.08 | IAmAI | If I'm explaining it correctly... |
| 14:13.22 | Leeds | that is, I will hit |
| 14:13.28 | Leeds | IAmAI: cygwin? |
| 14:13.34 | IAmAI | Leeds: That's it! |
| 14:14.02 | IAmAI | Thatnks. |
| 14:14.04 | IAmAI | *Thanks |
| 14:14.05 | Leeds | no worries |
| 14:15.13 | Leeds | http://friendsdisenchanted.blogspot.com/2005/10/blog-post_24.html |
| 14:16.35 | *** join/#gllug startxwhite (n=startxwh@fence.metamute.com) |
| 14:17.11 | Leeds | and http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/10/30/1322227 |
| 14:17.13 | Leeds | hi startxwhite |
| 14:19.32 | startxwhite | has anyone here used the bt voyager 205 adsl router supplied by BT for BT broadband with ANY other ISP? |
| 14:21.14 | rhowe | haha http://friendsdisenchanted.blogspot.com/2005/10/saddam-trial-begins.html |
| 14:23.25 | Leeds | startxwhite: sorry - no BT ADSL where I am |
| 14:23.38 | Leeds | rhowe: :-) |
| 14:27.05 | startxwhite | rhowe: we demand: Sadam, Bush Senior and Thatcher on trial! |
| 14:30.30 | rhowe | hahahahttp://friendsdisenchanted.blogspot.com/2005/08/who-needs-democracy-when-senior-member.html |
| 14:30.37 | rhowe | stick a space in there somewhere :) |
| 14:30.48 | Leeds | rhowe: he's crude but funny |
| 14:30.52 | wethrin | rhowe: hahahah ttp:// ? |
| 14:31.38 | Leeds | wethrin: the titter titter protocol |
| 14:31.46 | wethrin | Titter ye not! |
| 14:36.21 | Leeds | "This distribution is for those that don't care for the overhead of configuration interfaces, and have a great appetite for raw text files. No need for dependency checks, since they always know what they are doing. Especially important to Slackware users are the bragging rights of using the oldest distribution still in development. Plus the fact that it has been supported by the same diety all that time, Patrick J. Volkerding. Newbies should b |
| 14:36.22 | Leeds | e cautious around Slackware users, because they will cut you none." |
| 14:38.58 | IAmAI | None of those distros seem to fit me... :( |
| 14:39.08 | wethrin | Heh |
| 14:39.34 | Leeds | I still find slackware suits me *just fine* :-) |
| 14:39.39 | IAmAI | I'll have to make one. ^__^ |
| 14:39.42 | Cope | :) |
| 14:39.54 | IAmAI | Oh yeah. |
| 14:39.59 | kbsingh | ah, distro building talk... |
| 14:40.20 | IAmAI | LOL, I'm talking about it and I haven't even installed Linux yet :P |
| 14:40.35 | Cope | Leeds: where's that from? |
| 14:41.03 | Leeds | Cope: http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/10/30/1322227 |
| 14:41.12 | Leeds | IAmAI: you've never installed Linux? |
| 14:41.16 | IAmAI | Nope. |
| 14:41.28 | kbsingh | ouch |
| 14:41.47 | Cope | kbsingh: and centos :) |
| 14:41.47 | Leeds | IAmAI: then what do you think you're doing here? |
| 14:41.55 | Cope | Leeds: learning? |
| 14:41.57 | IAmAI | I had the idea for a distro that will run GUI apps, but the OS controlled by the console only. |
| 14:42.12 | IAmAI | Though, I think I heard there is already a distro like that. |
| 14:42.22 | Leeds | IAmAI: go on... (I am just joking, of course, about you being here) |
| 14:42.32 | IAmAI | Leeds: ? :S |
| 14:42.50 | wethrin | Cope: Good for you! |
| 14:43.00 | kbsingh | :) |
| 14:43.04 | IAmAI | Oh. |
| 14:43.18 | Leeds | IAmAI: I don't understand what you mean by running GUI apps but the OS controlled by the console only |
| 14:43.33 | kbsingh | IAmAI, why not sample the waters, try and install something and take it frm there ? |
| 14:43.37 | IAmAI | Leeds: I'm here to find out what how to install and use Linux, of course. |
| 14:43.42 | IAmAI | Yeah. |
| 14:43.50 | IAmAI | Though I play games too much :S |
| 14:44.13 | IAmAI | One problem with Linux ;) - its easier to play games on Windows. |
| 14:44.15 | Leeds | lose yourself in wesnoth |
| 14:44.25 | IAmAI | If it was the otherway round I'd probably be more motivated ^__^ |
| 14:44.41 | Leeds | IAmAI: seriously - I don't understand what you mean above - please elaborate |
| 14:45.24 | IAmAI | If computer games were easier to set up and ran better on Linux, it might motivate me to go install Linux... |
| 14:45.44 | IAmAI | ...Except for the fact i could be playing games on Windows, instead of installing Linux :P |
| 14:45.48 | Leeds | no, I mean about the gui and the console |
| 14:45.52 | IAmAI | Oh... |
| 14:46.42 | Leeds | I understand what you're saying about games :-) I tend to go for consoles instead |
| 14:46.50 | IAmAI | Basically, its like a console only distro, but if try to execute an program that utilises a GUI, it will run it and it will appear on top of the console. |
| 14:46.57 | IAmAI | Basically, the desktop is a console. |
| 14:47.16 | Leeds | ugh |
| 14:47.20 | IAmAI | LOL |
| 14:47.28 | Leeds | sorry :-) |
| 14:47.40 | Leeds | you've never seen Linux virtual terminals? |
| 14:47.46 | IAmAI | Nope. |
| 14:47.56 | Leeds | or for that matter, virtual desktops? |
| 14:48.04 | IAmAI | I think so... |
| 14:48.51 | IAmAI | Leeds: "I understand what you're saying about games :-) I tend to go for consoles instead" - games are so much better on PCs than consoles... |
| 14:49.18 | Leeds | I currently have 7 xterms ('dos boxes') open, 3 editors, 2 firefox windows, one mail window, one irc and one im |
| 14:49.28 | George | what exactly is the difference between the FireGL and the Radeon? |
| 14:49.59 | Leeds | George: not much, nowadays, AFAIK |
| 14:50.08 | George | what's the difference supposed to be? |
| 14:50.17 | Leeds | IAmAI: that may be true, but I'm not willing to run windows on a PC, and consoles are so cheap |
| 14:51.26 | IAmAI | True, but I think the improved quality of games on PCs is so worth the extra money for high-end equipment |
| 14:52.11 | Cope | Leeds: you don't run your editor in an xterm? |
| 14:52.27 | George | Leeds: is the FireGL just a Radeon but with much better picture quality? |
| 14:53.00 | IAmAI | Leeds: And the latest games are so expensive - it's ÂĢ50 for Xbox 360 games! |
| 14:53.37 | Leeds | Cope: gvim - I've got quite used to vim with a scrollbar... I've got some vim as well :-) |
| 14:53.42 | Leeds | George: dunno |
| 14:53.55 | Cope | Leeds: ah |
| 14:54.00 | Leeds | IAmAI: I have no intention of getting an xbox 360... I do have 2 xboxen though |
| 14:54.26 | Leeds | it's vim with a scrollbar :-) oh, and nicer fonts than xterm, in my experience |
| 14:54.33 | *** join/#gllug pdr (n=pdr@n14z172l206.broadband.ctm.net) |
| 14:54.37 | wethrin | My editor has its own window |
| 14:55.10 | Leeds | wethrin: how does it smell? |
| 14:55.11 | IAmAI | I think the PC game market is much more competive, so games start reasonably priced and decrease in price quite quickly. |
| 14:55.51 | wethrin | Leeds: It has a function for doing that |
| 14:55.53 | Leeds | to be honest, I mostly use my DS for playing games at the moment - no comparison there with a PC |
| 14:56.06 | Leeds | wethrin: I deduce emacs :-) |
| 14:56.10 | wethrin | Correct |
| 14:56.30 | wethrin | Cope: What?# |
| 14:56.56 | Leeds | IAmAI: so, what editor do you code in? |
| 14:57.01 | George | KATE |
| 14:57.02 | Cope | lispy wethrin |
| 14:57.19 | wethrin | Cope: Yes. That's why my name's not 'wesrin' |
| 14:57.41 | wethrin | KATE smells of poo and wee |
| 14:57.42 | George | everybody loves kate |
| 14:57.56 | Leeds | wethrin: shadow? |
| 14:58.06 | wethrin | Leeds: yarr |
| 14:59.18 | kbsingh | hey, I met a girl called Kate yesterday. |
| 14:59.26 | George | we're not talking about girls |
| 14:59.30 | George | we're talking about text editors |
| 14:59.36 | George | and kate is clearly the best text editor |
| 14:59.39 | George | it has code folding. |
| 14:59.45 | kbsingh | yeah well that one was resolved when ed was released. |
| 14:59.46 | Leeds | bah |
| 14:59.54 | kbsingh | thats all the editor anyone needs |
| 14:59.59 | wethrin | code folding? It reduces your code to nothing? :) |
| 15:00.21 | Leeds | wethrin: it's like protein folding, I guess... |
| 15:01.02 | IAmAI | Leeds: "to be honest, I mostly use my DS for playing games at the moment - no comparison there with a PC" - A graphics table ^__^ |
| 15:01.03 | George | oiy |
| 15:01.05 | wethrin | It explains the bloatedness |
| 15:01.06 | George | nobody should insult kate. |
| 15:01.08 | George | kate is the best |
| 15:01.17 | IAmAI | Leeds: "so, what editor do you code in?" - I use an editor called 'Crimson Editor'. |
| 15:01.34 | kbsingh | yeah, lets not insult kate, not till I get her phone number anyway |
| 15:03.00 | Leeds | IAmAI: looks vaguely usable... you need to learn and love vim |
| 15:03.23 | Cope | Leeds: elvis |
| 15:04.06 | Leeds | Cope: left the building a long time ago |
| 15:04.48 | Cope | i learned vi on elvis |
| 15:04.59 | Leeds | I learned on vi |
| 15:05.01 | Leeds | :-) |
| 15:06.30 | IAmAI | IAmAI: What do you mean 'vaguel usable'?! |
| 15:06.46 | Leeds | actually, I used nedit for a long time before seeing the light |
| 15:06.54 | IAmAI | Leeds: Nothing can be a vague as vim! |
| 15:07.18 | Leeds | IAmAI: I mean it looks like it has a few of the features of vim |
| 15:07.29 | IAmAI | I'm sure it does. |
| 15:07.54 | IAmAI | At least its intuative to use, unlike vim. |
| 15:08.08 | Cope | what's unintuitive about vim? |
| 15:08.15 | IAmAI | Granted, the console is a very limited UI for a text editor. |
| 15:09.36 | wethrin | Cope: The modal system |
| 15:10.03 | wethrin | vi(m) is definitely *not* intuitive to use |
| 15:10.14 | Cope | wethrin: that's not unintuitive; very few applications assume you are performing the same class of operation all the time |
| 15:10.15 | Leeds | wethrin: unfortunately, I only have 2 hands, so I am unable to use emacs |
| 15:10.25 | Cope | its common to switch modes |
| 15:10.26 | wethrin | Leeds: I never said emacs was intuitive to use either |
| 15:10.50 | Leeds | anyway, there's always vim cream, or whatever the easy mode is called |
| 15:11.19 | wethrin | To use both vi and emacs you need to sit down and learn the various keypresses. If it's intuitive, one should be able to sit down without prior experience and just use it |
| 15:11.35 | rhowe | Stop being so smart |
| 15:11.39 | Leeds | gvim has a toolbar and menubar, until you turn them off :-) |
| 15:11.47 | rhowe | Stop being so broken |
| 15:12.34 | wethrin | You say it's 'intuitive' because you're used to how it works. Most people, when faced with a text editor, would want to get on with the business of typing rather than wondering how exactly one would insert text |
| 15:13.06 | Cope | i don't believe anything is inherently intuitive; it depends on background; if my 'intuitive' you mean 'like microsoft word' I don't accept that is necesarrily the most intuitive way to edit text |
| 15:13.09 | IAmAI | Generally, text editors are one of the most intuitive applications. Vim just breaks that to the higest degree :P |
| 15:13.26 | Leeds | http://cream.sourceforge.net/ |
| 15:13.41 | wethrin | Cope: No, MS Word isn't necessarily intuitive either |
| 15:13.54 | rhowe | George: jEdit has code folding too |
| 15:14.00 | wethrin | However, it has the advantage over vi in that it presents you with a screen into which you can directly type. As does emacs |
| 15:14.01 | Leeds | "the only truely intuitive interface is..." |
| 15:14.06 | wethrin | Leeds: The nipple |
| 15:14.30 | Cope | IAmAI: OK... explain what is unintuitive to the highest degree about vi? |
| 15:14.48 | Cope | Granted, someone needs to tell you to use 'i' and 'esc' to switch modes |
| 15:14.52 | rhowe | George: I did quite like kate though, until it crashed and I realised it wasn't making automatic backups of open files |
| 15:14.55 | wethrin | Yes. And how to quit |
| 15:15.01 | Cope | the concept of switching modes is not unintuitive |
| 15:15.09 | Leeds | the initial learning curve is *extremely* sharp, but pretty short |
| 15:15.29 | George | rhowe: good :P |
| 15:15.31 | Cope | wethrin: yeah, ok, but this is 3 things which take 3 seconds to learn |
| 15:15.59 | Leeds | IAmAI: in case you're not aware, this is one of the oldest ongoing discussions in the unix world |
| 15:16.03 | rhowe | George: After that, I never used it again |
| 15:16.04 | wethrin | Cope: Yes, if you have that mindset |
| 15:16.39 | wethrin | Now, most editors will be using meta-characters to do things like moving around the text, going to search/replace, etc. |
| 15:17.01 | Cope | wethrin: no, 'some' |
| 15:17.08 | IAmAI | Cope: Lots of squiggly lines. Typing does nothing... |
| 15:17.17 | Cope | and there's no reason to state that that is any more intuitive |
| 15:17.21 | wethrin | Cope: Okay...other than the vi family and ed, which ones? |
| 15:17.54 | wethrin | pico/nano, emacs, Notepad, Word, OpenOffice are all non-modal (in the vi sense). As is ee |
| 15:18.36 | Cope | IAmAI: I just told you - someone tells you 1) vi is modal; thing of it as a switch, using 'i' and 'esc'; The ~ mean nothing - unimportant. |
| 15:18.41 | Cope | that's it |
| 15:18.45 | Cope | now you can use vi |
| 15:19.05 | Cope | that's not unintuitive to the highest degree |
| 15:19.48 | rhowe | Now, there's an example of unintuitive :) |
| 15:20.07 | wethrin | Are there *any* 3D renderers that are intuitive? |
| 15:20.15 | IAmAI | Cope: No. I can't. |
| 15:20.25 | IAmAI | Not without have to good look at man pages. |
| 15:20.28 | mozrat | nano is fairly usable for first time text mode text editor people |
| 15:20.32 | Cope | now, if you're using an old version of vi, yes, you may find that cursor keys don't work; this is a pain; but again - no-one goes into vi blind - read a one paragraph hint sheet, and you're there. |
| 15:20.38 | wethrin | AFAIA, they're all learned, and people resist changing to other renderers |
| 15:21.04 | Cope | IAmAI: that's just nonsense |
| 15:21.19 | IAmAI | Cope: ? |
| 15:21.24 | murb | Cope: you mean proper? |
| 15:21.50 | Cope | IAmAI: you can type, you can move around, you can save; you have no need to read man pages until you want to start doing more complex editing. |
| 15:21.51 | rhowe | murb: proper and old are often synonymous with unixy stuff :) |
| 15:21.55 | Cope | murb: indeed |
| 15:22.45 | Cope | IAmAI: vi is no more unintuitive than learning half a dozen key presses on command and conquer, and using them for a day |
| 15:22.48 | wethrin | Cope: vim 6.4 (Cygwin) and 6.3 (OpenBSD) don't work with cursor keys in insert mode. |
| 15:22.56 | Cope | wethrin: good |
| 15:23.06 | mozrat | Cope, nice analogy |
| 15:23.09 | Cope | wethrin: cursor keys are the spawn of satan |
| 15:23.13 | wethrin | Bah :-P |
| 15:23.22 | mozrat | games are v. unintuitive |
| 15:23.28 | George | guys, stop arguing. I know you all love kate. |
| 15:25.02 | wethrin | So I live with it. I've learned the tricks, and it now comes naturally to me. However, I still wouldn't call it particularly intuitive - I actively had to learn (not that that's a bad thing) the way the editor Does Things |
| 15:26.29 | wethrin | Personally I still prefer emacs for longer edits, but that's just because that's what I've grown accustomed to |
| 15:26.41 | Cope | wethrin: i'm challenging the essential notion of what is intuitive; it needs to be taken as part of a package; it might be argued that notepad is intuitive; try writing 20,000 lines of code in notepad, and you'll soon find that if you want to do anything useful its massively unintuitive |
| 15:27.16 | Cope | get over some *small* hurdles - modality, using hjkl, the idea of commands and scope... |
| 15:27.25 | wethrin | Cope: Yes, but writing 20,000 lines of code in Notepad is silly :) |
| 15:27.26 | Cope | suddenly its very easy to use. |
| 15:27.44 | wethrin | Cope: It's very easy to use once it's learned. |
| 15:27.44 | Cope | wethrin: not using vi because its 'unintuitive' is even sillier |
| 15:27.53 | wethrin | Cope: I agree |
| 15:29.24 | Cope | IAmAI: final word on the matter; from personal experience; when i first learned unix, my friend said: lesson 1: use vi; he 'forced' me to use vi for *everything* for a day - even silly things; by the second day it felt easier; by the third day it felt natural; thereafter anying !vi feels horrible, slow and clumsy; |
| 15:29.35 | gregj | anyone with expierence on using parports ? |
| 15:29.50 | gregj | I get : |
| 15:29.52 | gregj | cat: /dev/parport0: No such device or address |
| 15:29.55 | wethrin | Cope: I had a slightly difference experience :) |
| 15:30.02 | Cope | wethrin: do tell |
| 15:30.05 | gregj | even tho: |
| 15:30.07 | gregj | |parport: PnPBIOS parport detected. |
| 15:30.08 | gregj | |parport0: PC-style at 0x378 (0x778), irq 7, dma 1 [PCSPP,TRISTATE,COMPAT,ECP,DMA] |
| 15:30.11 | gregj | :/ |
| 15:30.31 | wethrin | I learned vi because that's what all the manuals were referring to when I was learning Unix. |
| 15:30.48 | rhowe | wethrin: Not to mention that writing 20,000 lines of code is impossible in older notepads, unless your lines are under 4 bytes each on average :) |
| 15:30.48 | Cope | wethrin: yeah |
| 15:31.02 | wethrin | I picked it up over the course of my learning expeience, and it ended up feeling quite natural to use |
| 15:31.50 | Leeds | gregj: do you have both drivers loaded? |
| 15:32.03 | George | mm. food. |
| 15:32.10 | wethrin | However, then when I started using LaTeX and writing some programs, I started picking up emacs and found that to work far better for those tasks than vi - for my way of working. Other people still swear by vi(m) for code and/or LaTeX; it obviously fits their way of working better |
| 15:32.30 | wethrin | So now I switch between them depending on the task in hand |
| 15:32.31 | gregj | |parport_serial 8064 0 |
| 15:32.31 | gregj | |parport_cs 7172 0 |
| 15:32.31 | gregj | |pcmcia 39612 5 parport_cs |
| 15:32.31 | gregj | |8250_pci 19456 1 parport_serial |
| 15:32.31 | gregj | |parport_pc 40772 2 parport_serial,parport_cs |
| 15:32.33 | gregj | |parport 36168 1 parport_pc |
| 15:32.34 | rhowe | wethrin: I loved the HTML mode that emacs in RH5.0 had, never seen it since though, and I think I prefer jEdit now |
| 15:32.36 | gregj | . |
| 15:32.52 | wethrin | rhowe: I can't remember that :) The HTML-mode in emacs 21 is quite nice |
| 15:33.07 | rhowe | wethrin: I think they replaced it with psgml-mode or something |
| 15:33.09 | gregj | Leeds: removing _serial one doesn't help either |
| 15:33.10 | Leeds | gregj: parport pcmcia? |
| 15:33.17 | Cope | wethrin: I never comment on emacs, as I've never even fired it up. |
| 15:33.19 | rhowe | wethrin: (in RH something > 5.0) |
| 15:33.28 | gregj | Leeds: nope, this is parport built in (this is laptop) |
| 15:33.48 | Leeds | gregj: then why is your pcmcia driver using parport? :-) |
| 15:33.49 | wethrin | Cope: Fair enough. I really wouldn't recommend it for sysadmin tasks :) |
| 15:34.02 | gregj | parport_cs |
| 15:34.16 | Leeds | gregj: silly question - are you sure it's not turned off in the BIOS? |
| 15:34.16 | wethrin | It's designed to be kept running over many days, rather than being fired up and closed down as and when files are edited |
| 15:34.22 | gregj | I just removed that, with no positive result anyway |
| 15:34.33 | gregj | Leeds: yes I am sure, cos I had to turn it on |
| 15:34.41 | gregj | Leeds: it is on ecp mode |
| 15:34.41 | Leeds | wethrin: I leave vim running for days :-) |
| 15:34.57 | Leeds | gregj: and I assume the settings in dmesg are actually correct? |
| 15:34.58 | Cope | Leeds: likewise |
| 15:35.21 | wethrin | Leeds: And you then open new files from within your running vi session, rather than running 'vi filename' each time? |
| 15:35.52 | Leeds | wethrin: I tend to do "vim *" in a directory full of work-in-progress files and switch between them, yes |
| 15:36.01 | gregj | Leeds: why shouldn't they |
| 15:37.51 | Leeds | gregj: because I'm not quite sure how good the detection is... |
| 15:38.10 | Leeds | gregj: I'm assuming there is a /dev/parport0 :-) |
| 15:38.21 | Cope | Leeds: I'm not |
| 15:38.24 | George | heh. I remember the days of parport. |
| 15:39.26 | George | gregj: you fat bastard |
| 15:39.27 | Cope | windows admin! |
| 15:39.33 | rhowe | George: Ah yes, the days when transfering data in parallel was faster than doing it serially |
| 15:39.55 | George | wethrin: what? |
| 15:40.02 | wethrin | Writing sucks |
| 15:40.09 | Leeds | Cope: you're not what? |
| 15:40.27 | George | I LOVE DOGBERT |
| 15:40.28 | Cope | Leeds: sure there's a /dev/parport0 on gregj's machine |
| 15:40.43 | George | gregj has ancient hardware |
| 15:40.45 | Leeds | Cope: ah |
| 15:41.11 | murb | Cope: unless it is onfire. |
| 15:42.12 | wethrin | Ewwww! |
| 15:42.13 | George | Cope: eww. |
| 15:42.17 | George | Cope: paedophile. |
| 15:42.50 | George | actually, are you classified as a paedo if the person you're molesting is > 16? |
| 15:42.52 | wethrin | Cope: Might you manage to join me for one beer on Friday? |
| 15:43.42 | Cope | wethrin: i will try hard |
| 15:43.42 | George | wethrin: can I come?!?! |
| 15:43.42 | George | so I can drink lemonade. |
| 15:43.46 | wethrin | George: Sure. Although we'll force you to drink beer |
| 15:43.52 | George | no you won't |
| 15:43.54 | wethrin | Cope: Excellent. |
| 15:43.54 | George | I'm underage. |
| 15:43.57 | George | oh wait |
| 15:44.00 | wethrin | That won't stop EvilDave |
| 15:44.05 | George | I'm probably going to shrewsbury on friday |
| 15:44.06 | George | WHAT A SHAME. |
| 15:44.11 | wethrin | Ha! |
| 15:44.13 | wethrin | Shrewsbury. |
| 15:44.16 | George | what? |
| 15:44.21 | wethrin | Ha |
| 15:44.25 | George | what's so funny? |
| 15:44.32 | wethrin | Shrewsbury. |
| 15:44.37 | George | so? |
| 15:44.40 | George | what's so funny about shrewsbury? |
| 15:44.58 | wethrin | Well, if you need it explained to you.... |
| 15:45.08 | George | yes |
| 15:45.10 | George | please |
| 15:45.51 | Leeds | George: how old are you? |
| 15:45.53 | George | 17 |
| 15:46.06 | wethrin | ICBA |
| 15:46.12 | George | wethrin: TELL ME |
| 15:46.15 | Leeds | plenty old enough for beer - or something similar like Budweiser |
| 15:46.33 | wethrin | ICBA |
| 15:46.35 | George | now what's wrong with Shrewsbury? |
| 15:46.39 | George | :( |
| 15:46.43 | George | Shrewsbury is cool |
| 15:46.43 | wethrin | Leeds: Budweiser (US) isn't beer! |
| 15:46.51 | Cope | hometime |
| 15:46.57 | wethrin | bye Cope! |
| 15:46.58 | George | Cope: bye homie |
| 15:47.00 | Leeds | wethrin: hence my comment |
| 15:47.06 | wethrin | :-) |
| 15:47.10 | George | wethrin: TELL ME |
| 15:47.28 | wethrin | NO |
| 15:47.29 | wethrin | ICBA |
| 15:47.31 | George | WHY NOT? |
| 15:47.37 | George | that's such a pathetic excuse |
| 15:47.39 | George | NOW TELL ME |
| 15:47.40 | wethrin | I'm busy! |
| 15:47.43 | George | no you're not |
| 15:47.46 | George | you're at university |
| 15:47.47 | wethrin | I am |
| 15:47.52 | George | LIAR |
| 15:47.57 | Leeds | wethrin: yeah right :-) |
| 15:48.11 | George | you're discussing going out for a drink on friday and that budweiser isn't beer |
| 15:48.14 | George | and you're claiming to be busy? |
| 15:48.15 | George | wtf? |
| 15:48.38 | wethrin | Important things |
| 15:49.18 | George | you suck |
| 15:49.20 | gregj | Leeds: ok, so vmware is creating /dev/parport[N} thingie, and it isn't there |
| 15:49.23 | gregj | Leeds: normaly |
| 15:51.29 | gregj | either way, it doesn't work |
| 15:51.31 | Leeds | gregj: you didn't say it was vmware! |
| 15:51.32 | gregj | FOOK |
| 15:51.42 | gregj | Leeds: nope, you don't understeand |
| 15:51.48 | gregj | Leeds: I have vmware running on that machine |
| 15:51.56 | gregj | it isn't running in vmware |
| 15:52.29 | Leeds | then why is vmware relevent at all? |
| 15:52.41 | gregj | vmware creates entry in /dev |
| 15:52.46 | gregj | because I am running damn udev |
| 15:53.18 | gregj | and udev allows you to create entries on your own, unlike devfs |
| 15:53.54 | Leeds | still don't get your point |
| 15:54.12 | Leeds | why should vmware be creating nodes? |
| 15:56.28 | rhowe | This is just irritating |
| 15:57.40 | wethrin | Anyone here good with BiBTeX? |
| 15:58.36 | Erwin | rhowe: I know some XSLT |
| 16:02.02 | Leeds | ding ding ding... midnight, and all's... meh! |
| 16:03.00 | wethrin | www.plokta.com/plokta/issue23/teapot.htm |
| 16:04.39 | murb | wethrin: I've used it. |
| 16:04.49 | murb | just run it lots of times. |
| 16:05.02 | wethrin | No, it's to do with reference styles and ordering |
| 16:05.23 | murb | what style must you use? |
| 16:06.12 | wethrin | any. However, I'd like to use one that mixes the abbrv style (shortened names) with the unsrt sorting (first-citation, rather than alphabetical) |
| 16:06.33 | murb | I wonder what ihad to use for my project. |
| 16:06.53 | wethrin | I've gone through the LaTeX companion, but couldn't find what I wanted |
| 16:19.34 | rhowe | Erwin: OK, I'm trying to get all namespace declarations put on the root element by the XSLT processor instead of it putting them wherever it fwants |
| 16:20.52 | Erwin | rhowe: Ah. No idea about that, I'm afraid. |
| 16:21.12 | Erwin | rhowe: There is an #xml channel, though. |
| 16:21.52 | rhowe | I'm going home in 9 minutes, it can wait :) |
| 16:27.38 | Leeds | night folks |
| 16:27.56 | wethrin | night |
| 18:10.08 | *** join/#gllug Blissex (i=pcg@82-69-39-138.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 18:23.47 | rhowe | hm, someone from C&W just posted on VOIPSEC detailing what they've been doing with the voice infrastructure at Bulldog |
| 18:23.53 | rhowe | Interesting :) |
| 18:24.11 | rhowe | Over the past year or so we have built a legacy TDM network to deliver a POTS service equivalent to BT, launched a simple MGCP based |
| 18:24.14 | rhowe | +second line service for home workers, multiline ISDN to SIP gateway service for businessses as well as building an H248 |
| 18:24.17 | rhowe | +infrastructure to migrate our V5 based POTS service. A lot has happened in that short space of time as you can see but we are |
| 18:24.20 | rhowe | +pushing and growing still further and ever stronger moving towards ADSL2+ using a GigE backhaul and MEN backbone with new and |
| 18:24.23 | rhowe | +emerging triple play services such as content on demand and HDTV. |
| 18:24.25 | rhowe | Our next major project is to develop a softphone client for our customers to offer mobility of numbers and tarrifs in an easy to use |
| 18:24.28 | rhowe | +pc based client. |
| 18:24.31 | rhowe | (apologies for nasty wrapping) |
| 18:25.03 | mozrat | Mmm |
| 18:25.20 | mozrat | "content on demand" |
| 18:25.26 | rhowe | Lots of acronyms there, not all of which I understand :) |
| 18:25.37 | rhowe | GET /content HTTP/1.0 :) |
| 18:25.44 | rhowe | mozrat: Like that, I wonder? :) |
| 18:25.50 | mozrat | :) |
| 18:26.44 | morsing | wethrin? |
| 18:26.46 | wethrin | yes? |
| 18:27.13 | morsing | I'm on a training course at Southwark this week |
| 18:27.22 | wethrin | very nice :) |
| 18:27.51 | rhowe | mozrat: Southwark as in SE1, as in near London Bridge/Tate Modern/etc? |
| 18:27.57 | rhowe | mozrat: As in 10mins walk from my office? |
| 18:28.04 | wethrin | rhowe: Wrong person |
| 18:28.12 | rhowe | damn |
| 18:28.16 | rhowe | s/mozrat/morsing/g |
| 18:28.16 | wethrin | fix your tab complete |
| 18:28.29 | rhowe | wethrin: Tired :P |
| 18:28.30 | morsing | rhowe: Yes - I didn't know?! BEER! |
| 18:28.43 | rhowe | morsing: I'm on a tight budget but something should certainly be possible |
| 18:28.51 | rhowe | morsing: payday on friday, at least |
| 18:29.02 | morsing | wethrin: Friday? |
| 18:29.09 | mozrat | mozrat, which course? |
| 18:29.10 | wethrin | rhowe: Bah. Excuses. |
| 18:29.15 | wethrin | morsing: Yes. Beer on Friday |
| 18:29.47 | morsing | mozrat: ? High availability cluster multi-processing |
| 18:31.20 | rhowe | morsing: Where are you doing the course? |
| 18:31.35 | rhowe | morsing: The office is on Newcomen Street, SE1 1YT, near where it joins Borough High Street |
| 18:31.41 | morsing | 64 Hopton street - massive building |
| 18:32.55 | rhowe | morsing: nfi where that is |
| 18:34.01 | morsing | rhowe: 100m from Founders Arms |
| 18:34.02 | rhowe | morsing: Oh, I see |
| 18:34.06 | rhowe | (looking at the A-Z) |
| 18:34.25 | wethrin | Founders Arms++ |
| 18:35.49 | murb | why would anyone want to do that? |
| 18:36.19 | wethrin | Yes. It's a silly college |
| 18:36.34 | rhowe | I'm going to have my dinner cooked for me |
| 18:36.41 | wethrin | Fancy |
| 18:38.48 | murb | a robotic chef? |
| 18:38.53 | George | wethrin: now tell me. |
| 18:39.03 | murb | and WAGN are not nice. |
| 18:39.04 | rhowe | murb: Chinese chefette |
| 18:39.31 | murb | I lived in hatfield for too many years :( |
| 18:40.21 | rhowe | murb: WAGN are terrible |
| 18:40.26 | rhowe | murb: 1? :) |
| 18:40.58 | murb | unfortunly more than that. |
| 18:41.24 | wethrin | murb: Yes, but otherwise you lived in High Wycombe |
| 18:41.27 | wethrin | Which is worse? :) |
| 18:41.31 | rhowe | hm, well I have to be there for 9, and I'm further south than Lewisham |
| 18:41.36 | rhowe | This is going to be, er, interesting |
| 18:41.39 | wethrin | GO GO GO! |
| 18:41.47 | rhowe | but... but... chatting to Jia... :P |
| 18:41.52 | wethrin | Bah. |
| 18:41.56 | wethrin | Free food! |
| 18:42.05 | murb | rhowe: catch a semifast to somewhere north. |
| 18:42.10 | murb | but don't fall asleep. |
| 18:42.18 | wethrin | murb: GNER to Stevenage? :) |
| 18:42.36 | murb | wethrin: well if he was unlucky it would stop quite close to where i used to live. |
| 18:42.43 | rhowe | murb: It'll have to be South Eastern to London Bridge, then Thameslink or Northern Line to Kings X, then the fast train out of Kings X |
| 18:42.51 | rhowe | murb: Hopefully everything connects well |
| 18:44.36 | wethrin | Ha |
| 18:52.52 | wethrin | murb: When we went to Copenhagen? |
| 18:52.59 | wethrin | The coach stopped there on the way to STN |
| 18:53.14 | George | wethrin: TELL ME |
| 18:53.22 | murb | wethrin: but i didn't get out. |
| 18:53.26 | murb | hense not stepping foot. |
| 18:53.56 | murb | if i counted how many times i went under the gallarier it would be quite high. |
| 18:55.56 | wethrin | aye |
| 19:18.25 | George | 20:16 < chouimat|busy> taj: btw I'm not french ... I'm french canadian ... french canadians know what a shower is |
| 19:18.28 | George | hahahahahaha |
| 19:19.06 | wethrin | :-) |
| 19:21.30 | Cope | ehoh |
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| 20:29.50 | *** part/#gllug websdale (n=andy@cpc1-lewi1-3-0-cust196.bmly.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:56.41 | mozrat | evening |
| 20:57.44 | George | allo allo |
| 20:57.56 | George | gentoo has a graphical installer. |
| 20:58.02 | George | this makes me think "WTF" |
| 21:00.28 | mozrat | George: an email from Bristol? How exciting! |
| 21:00.34 | George | I knkow |
| 21:00.39 | George | it's just an acknowledgement though |
| 21:00.44 | George | "thanks for applying. we hope you fail" |
| 21:00.49 | mozrat | Whats in Bristol? |
| 21:01.06 | George | a university |
| 21:01.14 | mozrat | oh! |
| 21:01.30 | mozrat | I thought you had your sights on somewhere like Cambridge |
| 21:01.34 | George | I do |
| 21:01.40 | George | I applied to 6 universities |
| 21:01.42 | mozrat | this is in reserve? |
| 21:01.44 | mozrat | ahh right |
| 21:02.03 | George | bristol, cambridge, york, durham, st andrews and warwick |
| 21:02.11 | George | lol |
| 21:02.20 | George | and look where he is now! |
| 21:02.21 | mozrat | *insert moan about students* |
| 21:02.23 | mozrat | yes |
| 21:02.25 | mozrat | :( |
| 21:02.28 | mozrat | buger |
| 21:02.32 | George | he's an international street bum! |
| 21:02.32 | mozrat | heh |
| 21:02.34 | JAV | evening! |
| 21:02.37 | mozrat | can't even spell bugger |
| 21:02.48 | mozrat | hello JAV! |
| 21:02.55 | George | greetings! |
| 21:03.01 | mozrat | JAV, where are you from again? |
| 21:03.11 | JAV | mostly spain |
| 21:03.12 | JAV | :D |
| 21:03.12 | mozrat | Spain? |
| 21:03.17 | George | I was in Spain |
| 21:03.30 | mozrat | ahh, we had one of your countrymen in here last week laying claim to Gibralter |
| 21:03.40 | JAV | I know, kde dev :D |
| 21:04.47 | JAV | well, you see Gibraltar? ok, I'm in the opposite corner |
| 21:04.50 | JAV | :) |
| 21:05.03 | JAV | in the north |
| 21:05.05 | mozrat | Good - stay away from our rock :) |
| 21:05.09 | JAV | hehe |
| 21:05.16 | mozrat | I can't remember the name of the other chap |
| 21:06.08 | mozrat | SuD |
| 21:06.11 | mozrat | That was it |
| 21:06.36 | mozrat | 21:06 < SuD> \uffffgibraltar espa\uffffol! |
| 21:06.36 | mozrat | 21:06 < mozrat> /kick SuD OUR ROCK |
| 21:06.36 | mozrat | 21:07 < SuD> :D |
| 21:06.36 | mozrat | 21:07 < mozrat> dammit - not important enough to be an op |
| 21:06.36 | mozrat | 21:07 < SuD> there's a street in my city that is called "gibraltar espa\uffffol" |
| 21:06.38 | mozrat | 21:07 < mozrat> heh |
| 21:06.41 | mozrat | 21:07 < SuD> it's a rofl |
| 21:06.43 | mozrat | 21:07 < mozrat> Gibralter is tiny compared to the rest of Spain |
| 21:06.55 | mozrat | ibot seen SuD |
| 21:07.04 | ibot | sud <n=alex@119.Red-81-36-238.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #gllug, 1d 5h 32m 23s ago, saying: 'g' afternoon'. |
| 21:08.38 | JAV | "Gibraltar espaņol!" pronounced in the right way is a funny remembering of a dictatorial past |
| 21:08.54 | JAV | a common joke |
| 21:09.01 | mozrat | :) |
| 21:09.43 | JAV | if you hit the table with the hand the effect is even funnier |
| 21:09.55 | mozrat | when drunk? |
| 21:11.13 | JAV | not necessary :D |
| 21:15.44 | JAV | the street name must be in Cadiz for sure |
| 21:15.59 | mozrat | He said that I think |
| 21:16.37 | mozrat | yes |
| 21:16.38 | JAV | they tend to do serious things their way :D |
| 21:16.44 | mozrat | "near Gibralter" |
| 21:16.48 | mozrat | is where he lives |
| 21:17.10 | mozrat | JAV, so you live in Basque country? |
| 21:17.27 | JAV | quite near, in Cantabria |
| 21:17.54 | JAV | Basque people come here in weekends |
| 21:18.51 | JAV | it's almost an invasion in summer |
| 21:19.27 | mozrat | lol |
| 21:20.16 | JAV | the number of girls is also increased so is not so bad sometimes :D |
| 21:21.27 | mozrat | indeed! |
| 21:37.02 | AngelChild | grills? |
| 21:42.06 | mozrat | yes AC |
| 21:42.17 | mozrat | Grills, like steak resturants |
| 21:45.26 | AngelChild | I see |
| 21:47.21 | JAV | grilled sardines! |
| 21:48.03 | mozrat | ewh |
| 21:48.10 | mozrat | that and cow tongue |
| 21:48.21 | mozrat | JAV, we need to get some pies and pasties down you |
| 21:48.26 | mozrat | some normal food |
| 21:48.30 | JAV | heh |
| 21:49.54 | JAV | I live in the coast, there are some good "fish grills" |
| 21:51.00 | mozrat | I've never been to Spain but the food in Portugal was fantastic |
| 21:51.03 | mozrat | monk fish etc |
| 21:51.05 | mozrat | calamari |
| 21:51.09 | mozrat | Mmmmmm, seafood |
| 21:51.13 | JAV | exact |
| 21:52.01 | JAV | calamari are one of the star dishes of those fish grills |
| 21:52.41 | JAV | having dinner now would be a good idea |
| 21:53.00 | JAV | see you |
| 21:53.09 | mozrat | see you later JAV |
| 22:05.37 | mozrat | AngelChild |
| 22:12.28 | Cope | hi mozrat |
| 22:12.32 | mozrat | hey Cope |
| 22:18.31 | Cope | heh |
| 22:19.27 | mozrat | I didn't know Novell were coming to talk to us |
| 22:20.41 | George | Novell are coming? |
| 22:21.09 | mozrat | George: yes |
| 22:21.13 | George | to where? |
| 22:22.11 | mozrat | http://gllug.ukfsn.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22&Itemid=29 |
| 22:22.59 | George | I WANT DOGBERT |
| 22:47.05 | George | interesting. |
| 22:47.23 | George | I just had a phone call from a random woman with an american accent purporting to be a hooker |
| 22:47.34 | Cope | odd |
| 22:47.44 | George | she knew my name too. |
| 22:47.45 | AngelChild | terribly sorry |
| 22:48.16 | mozrat | George: WHAT? |
| 22:48.49 | Cope | George: I take it you asked her a few basic rules, and it became clear she had no idea how to play the game, and wouldn't know which way to throw the ball at the line-out? |
| 22:49.06 | George | actually I said something like "you're really starting to annoy me now, go away" |
| 22:49.18 | George | she claimed to have been told to phone me by someone called "Rupert" |
| 22:49.26 | George | the only Rupert I know I've just phoned and it seems I've woken him up |
| 22:49.36 | George | that said I still suspect him |
| 22:49.39 | AngelChild | rofl cope |
| 22:49.51 | Cope | he was a fine fellow! |
| 22:50.13 | Cope | although always drunk |
| 22:50.57 | Cope | right bed |
| 22:51.03 | Cope | early start tomorrow |
| 22:59.59 | JAV | hey, I haven't seen the new web, it looks great |
| 23:00.30 | mozrat | the new internet? |
| 23:00.37 | mozrat | internet version 2.0? |
| 23:00.42 | mozrat | where can I download it? |
| 23:00.53 | z00dax | mozrat, setup a torrent once u get it, |
| 23:01.10 | mozrat | z00dax: I need some more storage space |
| 23:01.28 | z00dax | mozrat, storage space is what I do @ work these days - plenty of it |
| 23:01.37 | z00dax | would / could do you a good deal :) |
| 23:01.55 | mozrat | enought for the whole internet? |
| 23:02.04 | mozrat | send me a quote :) |
| 23:02.06 | z00dax | if you have the money.... |
| 23:02.16 | z00dax | ... I'll find the drives :) |
| 23:02.38 | z00dax | wow, is that weather getting all British on us again or what ? |
| 23:03.15 | mozrat | it is |
| 23:03.50 | JAV | ibot: slap mozrat |
| 23:03.53 | ibot | ACTION slaps mozrat, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 23:04.28 | mozrat | heehee |
| 23:04.34 | JAV | :) |
| 23:04.48 | George | wurble |
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| 23:28.08 | mozrat | just received a standard 419 "you have won the lottery email" with a bloated cc list of Linux related domains |
| 23:28.19 | mozrat | someone has scraped a wiki or mailing list somewhere |
| 23:28.56 | mozrat | and the email is signed |
| 23:28.59 | mozrat | "Peter Mike (Mrs)" |
| 23:29.04 | mozrat | Mrs Peter Mike? |
| 23:29.53 | AngelChild | take off the dress perhaps |
| 23:30.11 | mozrat | see what lies within? :) |
| 23:30.44 | mozrat | might be worth baiting for the comedy value - the lady trying to sell me monkeys never answered back |
| 23:52.21 | Leeds | morgen all |
| 23:52.38 | mozrat | Leeds! |
| 23:52.59 | AngelChild | hai leeds |
| 23:55.00 | mozrat | Morning to you! |
| 23:55.09 | mozrat | hope there is less rain than here currently |
| 23:55.43 | Leeds | we're well out of the rainy season - I think there won't be much rain until the summer now :-) |
| 23:55.57 | mozrat | good... for... you... |
| 23:57.18 | Leeds | although... local 'met office' says "one or two light rain patches" for Saturday... and it's going to get a lot cooler - may dip below 25 during the day and 20 at night :-) |
| 23:57.29 | mozrat | poor you |
| 23:58.12 | Leeds | at this rate, I may have to wear something more substantial than a t-shirt if I go out and about after midnight in a few weeks! |
| 23:58.53 | mozrat | I wore a T-Shirt in defiance this afternoon and walked to the shops |
| 23:59.04 | mozrat | nearly died of hypothermia |
| 23:59.05 | pdr | morning all |
| 23:59.10 | Leeds | and did your arms turn blue and drop off? |
| 23:59.16 | AngelChild | morning pdr |
| 23:59.28 | mozrat | Leeds, very nearly |
| 23:59.43 | Leeds | morning pdr |
| 23:59.51 | mozrat | a man actually stopped me and said "didn't you read the weather forecast today" |
| 23:59.53 | JAV | morning |