00:05.18 | wethrin | Hello people |
00:05.23 | wethrin | And George |
00:07.38 | Leeds | urgl |
00:07.47 | George | am I no longer a person? |
00:08.44 | wethrin | No. You always object when I say 'people' |
00:08.54 | George | thank you :D |
00:09.39 | George | yay |
00:09.51 | wethrin | heh |
00:10.10 | George | :D |
00:20.12 | *** join/#gllug weasl77_ (n=weasl77@bigstick.force9.co.uk) |
00:30.21 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@ipvpn095205.netvigator.com) |
00:31.47 | Leeds | well, that was an unsuccessful experiment... |
00:32.20 | rhowe | You know.. you have to worry about someone whose response to "but they must catch it from somewhere" (when talking about bird flu in .jp) is "from hentai people who had sex with chicken. hahahhahaha" |
00:32.57 | George | wtf is hentai? |
00:33.12 | rhowe | Japanese for "perverted" or "weird" |
00:33.21 | George | ah |
00:33.45 | Leeds | rhowe: is that all it means? |
00:34.24 | Leeds | because it has much more specific connotations |
00:34.26 | wethrin | Also known over here as cartoon tentacle porn |
00:34.40 | rhowe | Leeds: Pretty much, although it's often used to mean pornographic cartoon imagery |
00:34.46 | rhowe | Leeds: I think that's a western abuse of the term though |
00:35.59 | Leeds | typical, westerners abusing Japanese abusive terms :-) |
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02:13.18 | *** part/#gllug weasl77_ (n=weasl77@bigstick.force9.co.uk) |
02:15.38 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@202.82.163.139) |
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03:36.55 | Leeds | Erwin: dude, go to bed! |
03:38.03 | Erwin | Yeah, I was just going to finish coding this module, then I found a bug in Python |
05:38.08 | *** join/#gllug morsing (n=morsing@emil.morsing.cc) |
05:39.42 | morsing | Leeds? |
05:57.27 | Leeds | yes |
05:57.47 | Leeds | morsing: yes |
06:10.50 | Leeds | morsing: dammit! |
06:22.40 | morsing | What?! |
06:25.28 | Leeds | did you want something? :-0 |
06:26.59 | morsing | No |
06:27.19 | morsing | Annoying norwegian person phoned me at 5! |
06:31.26 | Leeds | slayerxp? |
06:31.34 | morsing | No - Geir |
06:39.20 | Leeds | if you say so |
06:40.08 | morsing | What are you doing? |
06:42.59 | Leeds | working, sort of |
06:46.01 | morsing | What are you working on? |
06:48.50 | Leeds | still moving my xml-metadata-based document repository to being sql-metadata-based, and in the process actually finishing it, and incidentally redesigning and rewriting the security/acl stuff in it |
06:49.04 | morsing | Mmm... rrd |
07:11.18 | Leeds | ah, mailman day comes around again |
07:20.33 | Leeds | and... I've descended to postits-on-the-monitor |
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07:57.42 | *** join/#gllug ufo__ (i=ufo@kasztan.il.pw.edu.pl) |
08:19.13 | Leeds | everyone except morsing still asleep? |
08:19.46 | Leeds | I don't know... just because the clocks go back, everyone is spending an extra hour in bed in the morning! |
08:32.38 | George | hah |
08:33.12 | George | chemistry time |
08:33.12 | George | bye |
08:34.29 | Leeds | hah, school :-) |
08:37.41 | highbury | morning |
08:44.18 | mozrat | Morning |
08:44.45 | Leeds | hi highbury, mozrat |
08:46.10 | mozrat | hey hey |
08:55.56 | Leeds | http://simonworld.mu.nu/archives/130274.php - "A regression analysis leads to only one conclusion - economists are bad for economic growth" |
08:59.54 | mozrat | Wow - I just uncovered a *really* old Linux server lurking in one of our operating companies |
09:00.34 | mozrat | The kind of server that no-one knows about until they move office and they can't change the IP address |
09:00.46 | mozrat | quote "It is a redhat 6.1 samba server sitting on a desktop that stores hhcls |
09:00.47 | mozrat | roaming profiles. |
09:00.48 | mozrat | Cheers simon" |
09:01.59 | Leeds | wow |
09:13.17 | mikejw | morning guys |
09:14.04 | mozrat | hey mikejw |
09:14.24 | mozrat | *eats.mushrooms* |
09:15.52 | Leeds | morning mikejw |
09:26.19 | mikejw | Leeds: hey there :) |
09:30.25 | *** join/#gllug kbsingh (n=kbsingh@nat1.lon1.uk.xinit.com) |
09:41.32 | Leeds | bloody php |
09:52.44 | Leeds | hometime |
09:53.06 | kbsingh | $TZ greetings |
09:53.40 | kbsingh | and a happy diwali to everyone, in the event that you do follow the Vedic calendar - a Happy New year as well :) |
10:05.13 | mozrat | Leeds, sat next to that Red Hat 6.2 server is another machine |
10:05.16 | mozrat | running 6.0 :) |
10:05.35 | mozrat | Happy diwali to you kbsingh! |
10:06.08 | kbsingh | mozrat, ty |
10:11.16 | wethrin | Morning all |
10:23.01 | mozrat | moin wethrin |
10:23.13 | wethrin | mozzie! |
10:23.14 | wethrin | :) |
10:23.19 | mozrat | :D |
10:24.33 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@ipvpn095205.netvigator.com) |
10:24.34 | Tron_ | 0.o |
10:24.50 | Tron_ | Oh jeez. Is it morning in London? |
10:24.53 | rhowe | mozrat: Got a DOS box there running Banyan Vines too? |
10:24.58 | Tron_ | I'm in work. |
10:25.13 | mozrat | Leeds, After you left I mentioned that next to the RH 6.2 box I found a running 6.0 box |
10:25.22 | mozrat | rhowe: Haven't seen one yet :) |
10:25.40 | mozrat | Tron_: Nearly lunchtime! |
10:25.48 | mozrat | Well - so my stomach tells me |
10:26.39 | mozrat | Tron_: Where are you? |
10:28.06 | Leeds | wow |
10:31.35 | Tron_ | mozrat: Sat right at my desk near London Bridge station, in front of rhowe ;) |
10:33.34 | mozrat | :) |
10:34.18 | mozrat | So *you're* the guy rhowe is always complain^H^H^H^H^H talking about? |
10:34.52 | Tron_ | That be me. :P |
10:47.44 | rhowe | from freecycle - "Hi all, does any one living near E14 have a old pc (Pentium 4 or above) that they don't need" |
10:49.45 | wethrin | HA! |
10:49.46 | wethrin | Old. |
10:49.48 | wethrin | HAhahahahahah |
10:49.49 | wethrin | HA |
10:51.18 | murb | rhowe: isn't that a yahoogroups thing? |
10:51.37 | murb | rhowe: the original P4s were not very hmm fast. |
10:52.45 | rhowe | murb: Yeah, that's the one |
10:58.40 | mozrat | someone posted this to London.pm - it's on tonight and looks quite good http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/cinema/features/quatermass.shtml |
11:02.12 | Tron_ | Wasn't that done a month or two ago? I caught the tail-end of it, I seem to remember. |
11:03.03 | mozrat | I think so - the guy said it was being repeated tonight |
11:06.19 | Tron_ | I always did like the Quatermass film(s). |
11:06.58 | Tron_ | And "Quatermass" is just a very cool name :P When I was a kid I wanted to have that name. :) |
11:07.02 | Tron_ | Bah. Phone. |
11:07.35 | wethrin | Tron_: It's never too late to change |
11:08.17 | Tron_ | wethrin: I'm too established with my current name to change now. And I don't think my good wife would appreciate the move. :) |
11:08.34 | wethrin | Heh :) |
11:15.35 | Cope | ho ho |
11:15.43 | wethrin | Merry Christmas, Cope! |
11:15.45 | wethrin | Err. Hang on... |
11:16.06 | Tron_ | Stop that, right away. |
11:16.12 | wethrin | :) |
11:41.18 | rhowe | I saw Christmas sugar in Whittards |
11:41.25 | rhowe | Coloured crystals, white, green and red |
11:48.51 | wethrin | ick |
12:25.29 | highbury | don't eat yellow sugar! |
12:44.03 | skugg | highbury: that's *snow* |
12:46.11 | wethrin | SKUGG! |
12:47.56 | murb | hmm BEEROCLOCK |
12:48.15 | Leeds | dinner |
12:50.24 | Tron_ | Just finished lunch. |
12:52.34 | skugg | wethrin: how's things? |
12:52.59 | skugg | how's doing a degree treating you? |
12:57.50 | wethrin | skugg: Quite well, thanks |
12:58.02 | wethrin | I need to do some useful writing today, though |
13:03.53 | Cope | skugg: /topic |
13:03.57 | Cope | skugg: improvement? |
13:06.00 | skugg | Cope: on what? |
13:06.07 | skugg | the /topic is too long to read... |
13:06.22 | Cope | not if you use /topic! |
13:06.25 | skugg | ooooh. speakers ;) |
13:08.32 | murb | loud speakers? |
13:10.35 | skugg | a gllug admin blog with an RSS feed would be capital. |
13:25.53 | highbury | notevenslightly |
13:27.29 | skugg | Cope: to answer your question explicitly, yes. it's an improvement. |
13:27.47 | highbury | why would you want to here the occasional plaintive bleatings of "oh shit! I'm supposed to be organising the next meeting, <insert excuse> can anybody else take over" |
13:28.33 | skugg | that's _not_ what i had in mind for that blog |
13:28.46 | highbury | actually, seriously, anybody is welcome to join the gllugadmin mailing list, if they feel they can help out |
13:29.46 | skugg | i have enough to do really. |
13:29.52 | skugg | do as I say, not as I do :) |
13:45.27 | Leeds | anyone have any thoughts on bytemark? |
13:47.48 | Cope | i have a positive experience of bytemark |
13:49.50 | Leeds | good :-) thanks |
13:50.15 | Leeds | Cope: that's a virtual server? |
13:55.00 | JAV | good afternoon |
13:55.31 | Leeds | JAV: hi |
14:09.02 | skugg | Leeds: i've used them for about 15 months. |
14:09.04 | mozrat | Leeds, I have good thoughts about Bytemark |
14:09.09 | skugg | i'm happy with them. |
14:09.18 | mozrat | my server is a little weak but I am on the cheapest package |
14:09.29 | mozrat | I wouldn't expect a real server with 64Mb RAM to be much better |
14:10.20 | murb | mozrat: with swap? |
14:11.08 | mozrat | murb, think so |
14:11.16 | murb | you can cheat with swap. |
14:11.24 | mozrat | I was running all sorts of stuff - I reimaged it and it's been fine since with Apache and MySQL etc etc |
14:11.35 | wethrin | mozrat: My real server with 64MB RAM kept falling over and crashing |
14:11.42 | murb | if you are lucky it will be cached in the hosts page cache. |
14:11.53 | wethrin | It now works very well with 384MB RAM |
14:12.07 | murb | wethrin: I've had a xen instance up with 64mb + some ram running lighttpd and webmail foo without problems. |
14:12.38 | murb | wethrin: ohne swap? |
14:12.50 | wethrin | With swap. But running Apache and qmail and spamassassin and clam |
14:13.02 | murb | oh this box has spamassasin |
14:13.11 | murb | but i "forgot" to acctivate it. |
14:13.30 | murb | I've found exiscan + sa to be much lighter on resources than mailscanner. |
14:13.48 | murb | just clamav and sophie i think. |
14:13.53 | wethrin | not too bad, then |
14:14.16 | Leeds | so that's a general thumbs-up then - thanks folks |
14:14.43 | murb | mozrat: I have a customer running 'orrable 10 in a 384mb Xen VM. |
14:14.44 | mozrat | Leeds, never had downtime and their support is good |
14:14.47 | mozrat | *thumbs*up* |
14:15.14 | Leeds | suppose it'd have to be Gentoo :-> |
14:15.31 | murb | Leeds: why not slackware? |
14:15.35 | wethrin | bad Leeds! |
14:15.43 | murb | or netbsd? |
14:15.46 | Leeds | murb: is it available? |
14:15.57 | murb | Leeds: no idea, but it should be trivial to install. |
14:16.36 | murb | Leeds: And i belive they give you some kind of rescue shell. |
14:16.37 | Leeds | really? can it be booted from a CD image? |
14:16.59 | murb | Leeds: I was thinking tar of minimal rootfs |
14:17.04 | murb | extract, then use mv. |
14:17.08 | Leeds | ah, okay |
14:17.10 | murb | have a statically linked shell avalible just incase. |
14:17.15 | murb | (with built ins like mv) |
14:17.21 | wethrin | sash |
14:17.26 | murb | actually a static mv is all you need. |
14:17.38 | murb | wethrin: bash + a static mv is v.useful for libc accidents... |
14:17.41 | Leeds | wethrin: not seen him in ages |
14:17.53 | wethrin | neither have I |
14:19.29 | Erwin | or better yet, busybox |
14:23.13 | Leeds | incidentally, not that I have anything against bytemark, but since *I'm* not in the UK, the location doesn't really matter... anyone know of anyone, say in the US, doing similar stuff? |
14:25.56 | murb | Leeds: there seem to be quite a few companies offering VMs based on Xen which should give you more performance for your cash. |
14:26.03 | murb | (as they can't overcommit memory) |
14:27.08 | Leeds | any recommendations? |
14:27.51 | murb | I'm trying to think of some of the people active on xen-devel. |
14:32.45 | murb | Leeds: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/HostingWithXen |
14:32.50 | murb | although only lists one company. |
14:33.06 | murb | Leeds: you'd have to ask them about the 1 %. |
14:35.31 | murb | umm the US people are only cheaper if you care about lots of BW. |
14:36.03 | Leeds | which I don't |
14:36.57 | Cope | Leeds: yes it is |
14:40.13 | mozrat | http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/plain_text.html :) |
14:40.27 | mozrat | Title: Plain text email fetish |
14:41.58 | Leeds | hm... $20 per month is pretty cheap |
14:43.10 | Erwin | hehe, xah Lee is a super-troll |
14:43.46 | mozrat | Erwin: yes |
14:45.11 | gregj | lol |
14:55.25 | Leeds | then there's http://linode.com/ which is more uml |
14:58.00 | murb | other questions for hmm stuff stuff are: do you get virtual console access. Can you supply your own kernel? If not what kernel version do you get, do you get the kernel source? |
15:00.07 | Leeds | yeah |
15:01.46 | rhowe | Leeds: No hosting companies in HK? |
15:02.22 | murb | I'm should do some more work on my menu shell. |
15:02.57 | Leeds | rhowe: there are... but, well, I'd prefer to host in York than HK :-) |
15:03.18 | rhowe | Leeds: .jp? .kr? |
15:03.28 | Leeds | uh, no |
15:06.42 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@ipvpn095205.netvigator.com) |
15:08.54 | *** join/#gllug resuDaed (n=tom@ACBD64BD.ipt.aol.com) |
15:09.53 | resuDaed | anyone have any idea why echo -e search \n nameserver 205.188.146.145 doesn't produce a newline (at \n) |
15:10.14 | Leeds | resuDaed: try \\ |
15:10.25 | resuDaed | (using debian etch) |
15:11.01 | resuDaed | osiris% echo \\ |
15:11.02 | resuDaed | \ |
15:11.18 | resuDaed | osiris% echo \n |
15:11.18 | resuDaed | n |
15:11.24 | Leeds | echo -n \\n |
15:12.19 | resuDaed | Leeds : it works, but why do I have to escape the escape char? (or is that the shell interfering) |
15:12.21 | Leeds | wow, gcc takes a long time to build |
15:12.42 | Leeds | the shell sees the commandline first - by the time it gets to echo, the \\ has been reduced to \ |
15:13.14 | resuDaed | but how does the shell get from \n to n? |
15:14.19 | Leeds | \ in that context escapes the n - which doesn't do anything, but if it was, say, a *, \* means "*" rather than "a wildcard matching multiple things" |
15:14.59 | Leeds | oh, and you don't want the space after the \n |
15:15.11 | resuDaed | Leeds : cheers |
15:15.24 | Leeds | pleasure |
15:16.53 | Leeds | by the way, happy diwali all |
15:17.22 | wethrin | Happy Mailman Reminder Day, Leeds |
15:18.26 | Leeds | wethrin: indeed |
15:19.17 | murb | Happy All Saints Day |
15:19.49 | rhowe | hm, apparently we're about to spam all our clients with a HTML mail offerring them free drinks |
15:19.58 | wethrin | Bad rhowe! |
15:20.00 | Leeds | woo, free drinks! |
15:20.19 | wethrin | Make sure the mail gets "lost" in the mail queue, and drink the stuff yourself |
15:20.38 | rhowe | wethrin: I said spam, this is going to be many a mail, individually addressed |
15:20.55 | rhowe | wethrin: I didn't offer to write something to automatically address the things based on our contacts database |
15:21.06 | wethrin | mmhm |
15:21.39 | murb | rhowe: if you are really lucky there will be a nice Cc list visable for your competitiors to steal all your custoemrs with. |
15:21.55 | rhowe | murb: Nah, I've already warned against that |
15:22.30 | rhowe | murb: Also I think she's going to manually send the same message to $many individual recipients, rather than Bcc'ing it to all of them in one go |
15:22.37 | murb | rhowe: or even better a mailman list, configured so subscribers can list all members. |
15:22.56 | Leeds | Cope: out of interest, as first responder, want a bytemark referral if it comes to it? |
15:22.56 | rhowe | murb: Or, even better, an unmoderated, public mailman list :) |
15:22.57 | murb | rhowe: would be nicer to bcc if you are not using verp |
15:23.14 | murb | since then you only deliver one copy / email domain |
15:23.31 | murb | and clever mailsoftare can then decide to save only one copy. |
15:23.56 | rhowe | murb: I think they plan on tailoring the message body to each recipient... manually |
15:24.13 | murb | rhowe: ouch! have they not heard of mail merge? |
15:24.25 | murb | or ouch you don't have enough customers! |
15:24.26 | Leeds | murb: that's a newfangled thing, isn't it? |
15:24.53 | rhowe | murb: heh, they're using Thunderbird |
15:25.33 | rhowe | murb: Thunderbird doesn't do mail merge. It'd be rather trivial for me to write something that'd take a preprepared message, fill in relevent bits with information from the database and then drop it into their drafts folder though |
15:26.08 | George | yay |
15:26.12 | George | my laptop's coming |
15:26.13 | George | woooo |
15:26.19 | murb | rhowe: oh imap tastic? |
15:27.22 | rhowe | murb: Yup |
15:31.16 | Cope | Leeds: oooh, thank you |
15:34.06 | Leeds | hmm... I hear good things about CentOS support and upgrades :-0 |
15:34.20 | Cope | hoorah! |
15:34.32 | Leeds | not doing it now, just checking out the order form |
15:36.06 | murb | Leeds: you shouldn't pay VAT as it is service. |
15:36.17 | Leeds | ah, good |
15:36.21 | murb | for colocation you might have to pay VAT as it is equiv. of renting a very small room in london. |
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15:36.53 | murb | Leeds: however it depends on the advice given the Bytemark by HMRCE or wahver they are called this phase. |
15:37.08 | murb | Leeds: they've been giving out contradictionary advice :(. |
15:37.27 | murb | Nominet still don't have a clear answer wrt domain registrations. |
15:38.16 | Leeds | now, HK doesn't really have counties or cities, or postcodes, so I tend to end up with addresses ending HK, Hong Kong, Hong Kong, Hong Kong :-) |
15:38.48 | murb | Leeds: I just use street number, town, postcode. |
15:39.06 | murb | the postcode is conviently. DE-65197 |
15:39.13 | Leeds | lots of places require those fields to be filled in |
15:39.47 | Leeds | "No VAT / sales tax is due on these prices, since you are outside of the European Union." |
15:40.08 | murb | Leeds: whoever sent my tax return deserves a special prize for truncating the house number. |
15:40.16 | murb | on the address label! |
15:40.21 | Leeds | doh! |
15:41.14 | rhowe | murb: heh, incompetency knows no bounds :) |
15:41.54 | resuDaed | apparantly I am banned from the #debian channel? |
15:42.32 | mozrat | resuDaed: Whoops |
15:42.44 | Leeds | resuDaed: that'll teach you to use ubuntu |
15:42.51 | murb | resuDaed: it does have a rather long ban list. |
15:42.53 | resuDaed | Leeds : I am using debian |
15:43.06 | resuDaed | murb : but how/why am I on it? |
15:43.14 | Leeds | resuDaed: that'll teach you to use debian |
15:43.15 | murb | ban *!*@*.ipt.aol.com |
15:43.34 | resuDaed | grrrr: my fscking flatmates --- I knew aol was a bad idea |
15:43.38 | murb | resuDaed: that'll teach you for using aol. |
15:43.48 | resuDaed | murb : I don't get a say in the matter |
15:44.00 | wethrin | That's quite harsh of them, though |
15:44.01 | mozrat | resuDaed: get a freeshell account and use irssi and screen |
15:44.06 | wethrin | Some people actually use AOL for a good reason |
15:44.11 | murb | resuDaed: get a paid virtual machine :-) |
15:44.20 | wethrin | Such as travelling a lot between countries |
15:44.40 | resuDaed | it costs me 4GBP/mo to use aol or the cost of a second line + charges to use my own choice of isp |
15:44.46 | murb | wethrin: not such a perfect idea now days that there are internet cafes on every corner. |
15:45.12 | Leeds | and affordable/free wifi in a lot of places too |
15:45.13 | resuDaed | murb : why is .ipt.aol.com banned anyway |
15:45.13 | murb | resuDaed: so splash out on a shell account somehere or something? |
15:45.27 | murb | resuDaed: no eye deer |
15:45.28 | Leeds | hell, even grps isn't always appalling nowadays |
15:46.20 | resuDaed | brb, logging in to my home machine (unless the have banned *.blueyonder.* |
15:49.48 | mozrat | Is there an official Fedora Core Live CD? |
15:52.23 | *** join/#gllug resuDaed (n=tom@82-45-243-170.cable.ubr01.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk) |
15:52.36 | resuDaed | doh! forgot what port I left ssh on :-) |
15:52.56 | wethrin | ha |
15:52.58 | murb | resuDaed: nmap? |
15:53.07 | mozrat | history ? |
15:53.15 | resuDaed | murb : yeah, thats how I rememberd |
15:53.25 | resuDaed | mozrat : never logged in to it from my flat before |
15:53.34 | mozrat | bugger :) |
15:53.35 | murb | resuDaed: vi ~/.ssh/config ... |
15:53.42 | resuDaed | I left it on :23 |
15:53.44 | murb | resuDaed: you have two homes? |
15:54.23 | resuDaed | murb : yes(ish) I am studying in sheffield, but I still have my mothers house in London |
15:54.39 | resuDaed | (well she has it, and I live there from time to time) |
15:54.42 | murb | resuDaed: oh so you've given up working? |
15:54.57 | murb | or saved enough to go to uni? |
15:55.03 | Leeds | what are you reading? |
15:55.09 | resuDaed | no, I study full time and I work |
15:55.43 | resuDaed | Leeds : am studying an extended degree in engineering (probably mechanincal) |
15:56.20 | murb | unfortunly i ended up paying council tax :(. |
15:56.34 | murb | (due to being too honest) |
15:56.59 | resuDaed | and in the last 2 weeks, I have been at uni a total of 50 hours, worked in excess of 100 hours and done 3 assignments |
15:57.23 | wethrin | That seems silly |
15:57.30 | resuDaed | and been out drinking at least 6 nights and consumed probably nearly 2 packets of pro plus |
15:57.45 | wethrin | How many heart attacks? |
15:58.06 | resuDaed | wethrin : tell me about it, but it was the only way I could financially survive till christmas |
15:58.20 | wethrin | D'oh |
15:59.12 | resuDaed | go back to work at beginning of december and will work almost every day till mid february while sitting all semester 1 exams |
15:59.34 | wethrin | Get a higher paid job |
15:59.38 | murb | resuDaed: so you don't have a very well paid job? |
15:59.45 | resuDaed | there are not many that fit around uni |
16:00.10 | resuDaed | between 5.51/hour and 37/hour depending on time of day and nature of job at hand |
16:00.28 | murb | resuDaed: you couldn't tele-work for ex-employer? |
16:00.40 | resuDaed | ususally between 5.51 and 11.02/hr |
16:01.11 | resuDaed | murb : been doing non-IT for the last year |
16:01.49 | murb | resuDaed: oh? |
16:02.48 | resuDaed | been a freelance theatre techie (and still am), I work mostly at the crucilbe and lyceum in sheffield now |
16:03.18 | murb | resuDaed: oh so self employed. |
16:03.38 | resuDaed | a mix of self employed and casual contract |
16:05.29 | resuDaed | anyway, must go -- have 3 hours of maths to come this evening yet |
16:05.35 | wethrin | fun :) |
16:05.35 | mozrat | laters resuDaed |
16:05.41 | wethrin | cya later |
16:29.36 | *** join/#gllug George (i=george@kde/developer/gwright) |
16:41.19 | Leeds | http://www.tripso.com/archives/2005/11/departures.html |
16:43.17 | *** join/#gllug highbury (n=steve@81.170.11.84) |
16:49.03 | skugg | resuDaed_: somehow i don't think going out drinking 6 nights in 2 weeks is necessary to financially survice till christmas. |
17:00.20 | *** join/#gllug formi (n=formi@82-35-232-163.cable.ubr01.camd.blueyonder.co.uk) |
17:00.54 | formi | hiya |
17:01.16 | *** join/#gllug mikejw_ (n=mikejw@84-51-159-23.michae611.adsl.metronet.co.uk) |
17:06.07 | George | ibot: 61/63 |
17:06.08 | ibot | 0.968253968254 |
17:06.37 | wethrin | Pff. Can't you do that in your head? |
17:06.40 | Leeds | http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-10549-iDisk+Diamond%2C+even+in+your+ear.html |
17:06.52 | George | wethrin: willing to help a spanish dude with a little dilemma? |
17:07.02 | wethrin | George: The answer is beer. |
17:07.23 | formi | should I jump in? |
17:07.26 | George | wethrin: it's to do with a job and birmingham and spain and his grasp of the english language |
17:07.49 | wethrin | I think formi would be better qualified to answer |
17:07.59 | George | actually, never mind. |
17:12.09 | skugg | formi: ditch it. |
17:12.30 | Leeds | formi: I suggest python + postgres |
17:12.49 | formi | the crux of the matter is that I have 3 tables, and i am adding a record that spans the 3 of them |
17:12.52 | rhowe | formi: bash + sqlite |
17:12.55 | skugg | except python doesn't have a db abstraction layer, according to my colleague |
17:13.16 | Leeds | it doesn't have an abstraction layer, but it does have a defined interface for database modules |
17:13.20 | formi | my request for help didn't mention flame wars!! |
17:13.30 | murb | formi in non flaming shocker! |
17:13.31 | skugg | formi: ok. myisam? innodb? |
17:13.38 | rhowe | formi: I think you'll find that you need to have a transaction there, with 3 seperate INSERTs.. oh wait, mySQL doesn't do transactions, does it? |
17:13.49 | Leeds | rhowe: 5 does, doesn't it? |
17:13.50 | skugg | rhowe: yes it does. |
17:14.02 | skugg | rhowe: but not with myisam tables. |
17:14.07 | rhowe | skugg: Oh, they've implemented it now, have they? |
17:14.08 | Leeds | you probably have to use the Oracle table type |
17:14.09 | skugg | hence my question :) |
17:14.18 | formi | phpmkr_query($sSql, $conn) or (phpmkr_query($dd_Sql, $conn) and die("Failed to execute query: " .phpmkr_error() . '<br>SQL: ' . $sSql)); |
17:14.21 | Leeds | aka innodb |
17:14.27 | skugg | rhowe: no, it's been present for some time if you're using innodb. but almost nobody does. |
17:14.53 | formi | ok my issue is how "glue" the second part after the "or" |
17:15.41 | formi | basically it reads, add the record to a single table, if something goes wrong delete the record added to the previous table and then "die" |
17:15.57 | Leeds | that's a transaction :-) |
17:16.20 | skugg | homebrew transactions. nice. |
17:17.08 | formi | the original statement, for the previos table was phpmkr_query($sSql, $conn) or die("Failed to execute query: " . phpmkr_error() . '<br>SQL: ' . $sSql); |
17:18.25 | formi | what I am not sure is if "(phpmkr_query($dd_Sql, $conn) and die("Failed to execute query: " .phpmkr_error() . '<br>SQL: ' . $sSql)); " works as it seems it would |
17:18.59 | Leeds | g'night all |
17:19.11 | formi | night Leeds |
17:19.11 | wethrin | nn Leeds |
17:19.16 | skugg | not sure. what happens if $dd_Sql (delete sql?) fails? |
17:19.25 | skugg | seems to me your die will not be executed. |
17:20.58 | formi | the delete sql has a small chance of failing as it is the same used to INSERT in the previous statement |
17:21.17 | formi | which at this point was executed successfully |
17:30.13 | skugg | ok. lemme get this right; you require that some insert is happening EITHER into 3 separate tables, OR none at all. right? |
17:37.37 | formi | that is the idea |
17:38.11 | formi | if it doesn't happen on the first INSERT it will die |
17:38.44 | formi | if it happens on the 2nd INSERT I want to detele the 1st one and die |
17:38.59 | skugg | ok. you need a transaction then. really. |
17:39.11 | skugg | do you have control over the mysql server? |
17:39.17 | formi | yes I do |
17:39.39 | skugg | can you use the innodb table type? |
17:39.47 | formi | yeap |
17:40.13 | skugg | then you should do that, and open a transaction, do your inserts and close the transaction. |
17:40.45 | formi | are you talkin about one of those multiple JOIN statements? |
17:40.59 | skugg | note that if you rely on things like 'select (*) from foo' to be very fast your code will suck camels if you do this. |
17:41.40 | skugg | no, just open a transaction, do 3 simple inserts, then close the transaction. the nature of transactions allows either all or nothing between them to succed. |
17:41.57 | skugg | much, much easier than faffing around trying to do it by hand. |
17:42.09 | formi | its a really low traffic situation, worst case scenario about 5 INSERTs per second |
17:42.12 | skugg | dunno how you do that in php though, but can't be that hard... |
17:42.52 | formi | I gues there has to be a simple way of firing the transaction |
17:43.03 | skugg | (the reason being MyISAM tables are optimised for the 'select count(*) from foo' case) |
17:43.18 | formi | to be fair I am cheating |
17:43.38 | formi | i got handed when half the job was done |
17:43.51 | formi | they used a windows proggy called PHPMaker |
17:44.35 | formi | which does VIEWs as long as it is only displaying them |
17:44.35 | skugg | i think you just do a phpmkr_query('BEGIN', $conn); insert; insert; insert; phpmkr_query('COMMIT', $conn); |
17:45.01 | skugg | or something. |
17:45.31 | *** join/#gllug Blissex (i=pcg@82-69-39-138.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
17:46.07 | formi | ok Ill investigate that |
17:47.11 | formi | do i still require InnoDB to do this? |
17:47.20 | skugg | yeah. |
17:47.45 | formi | ok |
17:47.53 | formi | thanks for the help |
17:47.54 | skugg | or bdb, possibly, or mysql5(?) |
17:48.07 | formi | i need to get home |
17:48.19 | formi | im using 5.0.15 i think |
17:49.03 | skugg | ok. don't know, but i don't _think_ myisam tables under 5 has transactions. you'll have to check that too. |
17:58.37 | *** join/#gllug Erwin (n=erwin@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/Erwin) |
20:30.45 | morsing | Hiya |
20:31.05 | morsing | What's the user name and password for nagios after installing it? |
20:34.43 | *** join/#gllug ibot_ (i=ibot@rikers.org) |
20:34.43 | *** topic/#gllug is Greater London Linux Users Group - see http://gllug.org.uk and http://planet.gllug.org.uk | Next Meeting: Discovering Linux - Nov 12, University of Westminster: Open Labs, Installation and Troubleshooting help, and Phil Hands on Xen and the Debian Installer | Channel Stats: http://www.jonmasters.org/irc/gllug |
20:45.44 | *** join/#gllug ibot_ (i=ibot@rikers.org) |
20:45.44 | *** topic/#gllug is Greater London Linux Users Group - see http://gllug.org.uk and http://planet.gllug.org.uk | Next Meeting: Discovering Linux - Nov 12, University of Westminster: Open Labs, Installation and Troubleshooting help, and Phil Hands on Xen and the Debian Installer | Channel Stats: http://www.jonmasters.org/irc/gllug |
22:03.24 | George | "The numerous open source packages listed above were all brought together with a collection of custom programs, scripts, config files and webpages created by James Conner, George Wright and Mark Brown. Our thanks extends to them for their hard work and dedication to the service. " |
22:03.28 | George | :D |
22:07.11 | *** join/#gllug weasl77 (n=weasl77@bigstick.force9.co.uk) |
22:07.18 | *** join/#gllug AngelChild (n=Catalyst@jamesmorse.plus.com) |
22:41.53 | George | AngelChild: hello? |
22:41.58 | AngelChild | hi |
22:47.19 | George | hi |
22:47.20 | George | :P |
23:02.25 | mozrat | Evening |
23:02.44 | mozrat | morsing: admin:admin AFAIK |
23:04.26 | rhowe | What's the 12th root of 1.013? |
23:04.46 | rhowe | ibot: 1.013^-12 |
23:04.47 | ibot | 4294967285 |
23:04.54 | rhowe | hm, that's not right |
23:04.59 | rhowe | ibot: 1.013^(-12) |
23:05.00 | ibot | 4294967285 |
23:05.07 | rhowe | ibot: 1.013^(1/12) |
23:05.09 | ibot | 1 |
23:05.51 | rhowe | ibot: NOT HELPFUL |
23:08.05 | Erwin | >>> 1.013**(1./12) |
23:08.06 | Erwin | 1.0010769315803607 |
23:09.23 | George | ibot_: 1.618^2 |
23:09.43 | George | ibot: 1.618^2 |
23:09.45 | ibot | 3 |
23:09.50 | George | interesting. |
23:09.55 | George | ibot: 1.618^2.0 |
23:09.56 | ibot | 3 |
23:10.04 | George | why is ibot in integer mode? |
23:22.24 | Tron_ | Dear $Deity, do these fireworks never stop? |
23:24.13 | Tron_ | 4 hours of non-stop fireworks. *twitch* |
23:24.41 | Erwin | Oh yeah, is it today that's Medieval Terrorist Appreciation Day? |
23:25.01 | Tron_ | Diwali? |
23:27.26 | Tron_ | I thought the law was that you quit firing the feckers by 11pm |
23:27.30 | mozrat | I mean, Nov 5th... go nuts |
23:27.35 | Tron_ | Indeed. |
23:27.39 | mozrat | it's a good tradition |
23:27.51 | mozrat | I don't think anyone minds on that night - they know to keep the cat in etc |
23:27.57 | Tron_ | But not 2 weeks before and after it - and then some. |
23:28.03 | mozrat | but a whole week before hand.... blergh |
23:28.22 | mozrat | and yes - I believe 2300 or 2330 is the legal cutoff time |
23:29.45 | Tron_ | My mother phoned me from Scotland earlier tonight, I asked if she was suffering endless fireworks, but no, the law is far stricter than in England. |
23:30.56 | Tron_ | So she's living in relative peace and quiet. All the more reason for me to think that London sucks goat nads. |
23:31.05 | mozrat | plus they hate to see their money go up in smoke? :P |
23:31.34 | Tron_ | Bah :P |
23:31.44 | mozrat | tee-hee |
23:31.55 | Tron_ | See you Jimmy! |
23:32.17 | mozrat | aye |
23:33.56 | George | mozrat: UCAS seems to think that "Engineer" falls under the category "Metal working machine operatives" |
23:34.03 | mozrat | Quatarmaster is very good! |
23:34.16 | mozrat | umm - however it was spelt |
23:34.24 | mozrat | George: :) |
23:34.32 | mozrat | engineer is a vague term |
23:34.41 | mozrat | My business card has that word on it :) |
23:34.58 | George | hah |
23:35.01 | George | software engineer? |
23:35.13 | mozrat | Senior Systems Engineer |
23:35.46 | Tron_ | Quatermass :P |
23:36.01 | mozrat | thats the fella |
23:37.37 | George | interesting |
23:38.01 | George | mozrat: if you were to see "Occupational Background" on a UCAS form, would you think it was the family occupational background or what random employment you've had? |
23:38.19 | mozrat | the latter I think |
23:38.22 | George | I interepreted it as the family one and I think I'm fucked |
23:38.28 | George | because it's already been submitted. |
23:38.31 | mozrat | heh |
23:38.47 | George | I don't believe that someone who's 17 can have an "occupational background" |
23:38.48 | George | wtf. |
23:38.52 | mozrat | if it's submitted theres no point worrying about it |
23:38.55 | mozrat | indeed |
23:39.02 | George | oh well, engineer can be construed to be my own occupational background |
23:39.06 | George | sysadmin is a form of engineering :D |
23:39.48 | mozrat | :) |
23:39.51 | George | or software engineering |
23:39.54 | George | I'm a KDE devel |
23:39.55 | George | haha |
23:40.09 | mozrat | you must be - it says so on your blog |
23:40.33 | mozrat | I like the new FBSD logo |
23:40.39 | mozrat | http://logo-contest.freebsd.org/result/640-1.png |
23:43.39 | George | mozrat: no it doesn't |
23:43.45 | George | mozrat: it says I'm a clearly disturbed KDE geek |
23:45.12 | mozrat | If it were ever updated |
23:52.04 | George | mozrat: "You only need to enter information for occupation background, ethnic origin and national identity if you live in the UK. Your universities and colleges will not see any of this information until after they have made a decision on your application. This information helps us monitor applications and equal opportunities." |
23:52.23 | George | mozrat: given that information which is lifted directly out of the application documentation, would you revise your opinion to the former? |
23:53.10 | mozrat | well - it is still talking about you and not your family background as far as I can tell |
23:53.26 | George | god damnit |
23:53.35 | George | how much more fucking ambiguous can they get |
23:53.38 | mozrat | heh |
23:56.20 | Leeds | boker tov all |
23:56.39 | rhowe | hm, interesting |
23:57.31 | rhowe | Assuming my salary remains the same for the duration (which is hopefully an invalid assumption) and that the interest rate stays the same (it's tied to inflation, so unlikely), it will take me 14 years 3 months to pay off my loan |
23:57.47 | mozrat | wow |
23:57.51 | mozrat | that sucks! |
23:58.07 | rhowe | If I put an extra £15 a month in, I will pay it off 43 months earlier, and save about £500 |
23:58.31 | mozrat | thats horrendous |
23:58.38 | mozrat | you should have drunk less at Uni |
23:58.43 | rhowe | However, if I put £15 a month into an account which pays 4% interest, after the 11 years 5 months it will take to repay the loan, I will have about £2,000 |