irclog2html for #gllug on 20051101

00:05.18wethrinHello people
00:05.23wethrinAnd George
00:07.38Leedsurgl
00:07.47Georgeam I no longer a person?
00:08.44wethrinNo. You always object when I say 'people'
00:08.54Georgethank you :D
00:09.39Georgeyay
00:09.51wethrinheh
00:10.10George:D
00:20.12*** join/#gllug weasl77_ (n=weasl77@bigstick.force9.co.uk)
00:30.21*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@ipvpn095205.netvigator.com)
00:31.47Leedswell, that was an unsuccessful experiment...
00:32.20rhoweYou know.. you have to worry about someone whose response to "but they must catch it from somewhere" (when talking about bird flu in .jp) is "from hentai people who had sex with chicken. hahahhahaha"
00:32.57Georgewtf is hentai?
00:33.12rhoweJapanese for "perverted" or "weird"
00:33.21Georgeah
00:33.45Leedsrhowe: is that all it means?
00:34.24Leedsbecause it has much more specific connotations
00:34.26wethrinAlso known over here as cartoon tentacle porn
00:34.40rhoweLeeds: Pretty much, although it's often used to mean pornographic cartoon imagery
00:34.46rhoweLeeds: I think that's a western abuse of the term though
00:35.59Leedstypical, westerners abusing Japanese abusive terms :-)
00:52.31*** join/#gllug highbury (n=steve@81.170.11.84)
02:13.18*** part/#gllug weasl77_ (n=weasl77@bigstick.force9.co.uk)
02:15.38*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@202.82.163.139)
02:41.00*** join/#gllug Erwin (n=erwin@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/Erwin)
03:36.55LeedsErwin: dude, go to bed!
03:38.03ErwinYeah, I was just going to finish coding this module, then I found a bug in Python
05:38.08*** join/#gllug morsing (n=morsing@emil.morsing.cc)
05:39.42morsingLeeds?
05:57.27Leedsyes
05:57.47Leedsmorsing: yes
06:10.50Leedsmorsing: dammit!
06:22.40morsingWhat?!
06:25.28Leedsdid you want something? :-0
06:26.59morsingNo
06:27.19morsingAnnoying norwegian person phoned me at 5!
06:31.26Leedsslayerxp?
06:31.34morsingNo - Geir
06:39.20Leedsif you say so
06:40.08morsingWhat are you doing?
06:42.59Leedsworking, sort of
06:46.01morsingWhat are you working on?
06:48.50Leedsstill moving my xml-metadata-based document repository to being sql-metadata-based, and in the process actually finishing it, and incidentally redesigning and rewriting the security/acl stuff in it
06:49.04morsingMmm... rrd
07:11.18Leedsah, mailman day comes around again
07:20.33Leedsand... I've descended to postits-on-the-monitor
07:57.32*** join/#gllug stephen_ (i=stephen@windsor.org.uk)
07:57.42*** join/#gllug ufo__ (i=ufo@kasztan.il.pw.edu.pl)
08:19.13Leedseveryone except morsing still asleep?
08:19.46LeedsI don't know... just because the clocks go back, everyone is spending an extra hour in bed in the morning!
08:32.38Georgehah
08:33.12Georgechemistry time
08:33.12Georgebye
08:34.29Leedshah, school :-)
08:37.41highburymorning
08:44.18mozratMorning
08:44.45Leedshi highbury, mozrat
08:46.10mozrathey hey
08:55.56Leedshttp://simonworld.mu.nu/archives/130274.php - "A regression analysis leads to only one conclusion - economists are bad for economic growth"
08:59.54mozratWow - I just uncovered a *really* old Linux server lurking in one of our operating companies
09:00.34mozratThe kind of server that no-one knows about until they move office and they can't change the IP address
09:00.46mozratquote "It is a redhat 6.1 samba server sitting on a desktop that stores hhcls
09:00.47mozratroaming profiles.
09:00.48mozratCheers simon"
09:01.59Leedswow
09:13.17mikejwmorning guys
09:14.04mozrathey mikejw
09:14.24mozrat*eats.mushrooms*
09:15.52Leedsmorning mikejw
09:26.19mikejwLeeds: hey there :)
09:30.25*** join/#gllug kbsingh (n=kbsingh@nat1.lon1.uk.xinit.com)
09:41.32Leedsbloody php
09:52.44Leedshometime
09:53.06kbsingh$TZ greetings
09:53.40kbsinghand a happy diwali to everyone, in the event that you do follow the Vedic calendar - a Happy New year as well :)
10:05.13mozratLeeds, sat next to that Red Hat 6.2 server is another machine
10:05.16mozratrunning 6.0 :)
10:05.35mozratHappy diwali to you kbsingh!
10:06.08kbsinghmozrat, ty
10:11.16wethrinMorning all
10:23.01mozratmoin wethrin
10:23.13wethrinmozzie!
10:23.14wethrin:)
10:23.19mozrat:D
10:24.33*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@ipvpn095205.netvigator.com)
10:24.34Tron_0.o
10:24.50Tron_Oh jeez. Is it morning in London?
10:24.53rhowemozrat: Got a DOS box there running Banyan Vines too?
10:24.58Tron_I'm in work.
10:25.13mozratLeeds, After you left I mentioned that next to the RH 6.2 box I found a running 6.0 box
10:25.22mozratrhowe: Haven't seen one yet :)
10:25.40mozratTron_: Nearly lunchtime!
10:25.48mozratWell - so my stomach tells me
10:26.39mozratTron_: Where are you?
10:28.06Leedswow
10:31.35Tron_mozrat: Sat right at my desk near London Bridge station, in front of rhowe ;)
10:33.34mozrat:)
10:34.18mozratSo *you're* the guy rhowe is always complain^H^H^H^H^H talking about?
10:34.52Tron_That be me. :P
10:47.44rhowefrom freecycle - "Hi all, does any one living near E14 have a old pc (Pentium 4 or above) that they don't need"
10:49.45wethrinHA!
10:49.46wethrinOld.
10:49.48wethrinHAhahahahahah
10:49.49wethrinHA
10:51.18murbrhowe: isn't that a yahoogroups thing?
10:51.37murbrhowe: the original P4s were not very hmm fast.
10:52.45rhowemurb: Yeah, that's the one
10:58.40mozratsomeone posted this to London.pm - it's on tonight and looks quite good http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/cinema/features/quatermass.shtml
11:02.12Tron_Wasn't that done a month or two ago? I caught the tail-end of it, I seem to remember.
11:03.03mozratI think so - the guy said it was being repeated tonight
11:06.19Tron_I always did like the Quatermass film(s).
11:06.58Tron_And "Quatermass" is just a very cool name :P When I was a kid I wanted to have that name. :)
11:07.02Tron_Bah. Phone.
11:07.35wethrinTron_: It's never too late to change
11:08.17Tron_wethrin: I'm too established with my current name to change now. And I don't think my good wife would appreciate the move. :)
11:08.34wethrinHeh :)
11:15.35Copeho ho
11:15.43wethrinMerry Christmas, Cope!
11:15.45wethrinErr. Hang on...
11:16.06Tron_Stop that, right away.
11:16.12wethrin:)
11:41.18rhoweI saw Christmas sugar in Whittards
11:41.25rhoweColoured crystals, white, green and red
11:48.51wethrinick
12:25.29highburydon't eat yellow sugar!
12:44.03skugghighbury: that's *snow*
12:46.11wethrinSKUGG!
12:47.56murbhmm BEEROCLOCK
12:48.15Leedsdinner
12:50.24Tron_Just finished lunch.
12:52.34skuggwethrin: how's things?
12:52.59skugghow's doing a degree treating you?
12:57.50wethrinskugg: Quite well, thanks
12:58.02wethrinI need to do some useful writing today, though
13:03.53Copeskugg: /topic
13:03.57Copeskugg: improvement?
13:06.00skuggCope: on what?
13:06.07skuggthe /topic is too long to read...
13:06.22Copenot if you use /topic!
13:06.25skuggooooh. speakers ;)
13:08.32murbloud speakers?
13:10.35skugga gllug admin blog with an RSS feed would be capital.
13:25.53highburynotevenslightly
13:27.29skuggCope: to answer your question explicitly, yes. it's an improvement.
13:27.47highburywhy would you want to here the occasional plaintive bleatings of "oh shit! I'm supposed to be organising the next meeting, <insert excuse> can anybody else take over"
13:28.33skuggthat's _not_ what i had in mind for that blog
13:28.46highburyactually, seriously, anybody is welcome to join the gllugadmin mailing list, if they feel they can help out
13:29.46skuggi have enough to do really.
13:29.52skuggdo as I say, not as I do :)
13:45.27Leedsanyone have any thoughts on bytemark?
13:47.48Copei have a positive experience of bytemark
13:49.50Leedsgood :-) thanks
13:50.15LeedsCope: that's a virtual server?
13:55.00JAVgood afternoon
13:55.31LeedsJAV: hi
14:09.02skuggLeeds: i've used them for about 15 months.
14:09.04mozratLeeds, I have good thoughts about Bytemark
14:09.09skuggi'm happy with them.
14:09.18mozratmy server is a little weak but I am on the cheapest package
14:09.29mozratI wouldn't expect a real server with 64Mb RAM to be much better
14:10.20murbmozrat: with swap?
14:11.08mozratmurb, think so
14:11.16murbyou can cheat with swap.
14:11.24mozratI was running all sorts of stuff - I reimaged it and it's been fine since with Apache and MySQL etc etc
14:11.35wethrinmozrat: My real server with 64MB RAM kept falling over and crashing
14:11.42murbif you are lucky it will be cached in the hosts page cache.
14:11.53wethrinIt now works very well with 384MB RAM
14:12.07murbwethrin: I've had a xen instance up with 64mb + some ram running lighttpd and webmail foo without problems.
14:12.38murbwethrin: ohne swap?
14:12.50wethrinWith swap. But running Apache and qmail and spamassassin and clam
14:13.02murboh this box has spamassasin
14:13.11murbbut i "forgot" to acctivate it.
14:13.30murbI've found exiscan + sa to be much lighter on resources than mailscanner.
14:13.48murbjust clamav and sophie i think.
14:13.53wethrinnot too bad, then
14:14.16Leedsso that's a general thumbs-up then - thanks folks
14:14.43murbmozrat: I have a customer running 'orrable 10 in a 384mb Xen VM.
14:14.44mozratLeeds, never had downtime and their support is good
14:14.47mozrat*thumbs*up*
14:15.14Leedssuppose it'd have to be Gentoo :->
14:15.31murbLeeds: why not slackware?
14:15.35wethrinbad Leeds!
14:15.43murbor netbsd?
14:15.46Leedsmurb: is it available?
14:15.57murbLeeds: no idea, but it should be trivial to install.
14:16.36murbLeeds: And i belive they give you some kind of rescue shell.
14:16.37Leedsreally?  can it be booted from a CD image?
14:16.59murbLeeds: I was thinking tar of minimal rootfs
14:17.04murbextract, then use mv.
14:17.08Leedsah, okay
14:17.10murbhave a statically linked shell avalible just incase.
14:17.15murb(with built ins like mv)
14:17.21wethrinsash
14:17.26murbactually a static mv is all you need.
14:17.38murbwethrin: bash + a static mv is v.useful for libc accidents...
14:17.41Leedswethrin: not seen him in ages
14:17.53wethrinneither have I
14:19.29Erwinor better yet, busybox
14:23.13Leedsincidentally, not that I have anything against bytemark, but since *I'm* not in the UK, the location doesn't really matter... anyone know of anyone, say in the US, doing similar stuff?
14:25.56murbLeeds: there seem to be quite a few companies offering VMs based on Xen which should give you more performance for your cash.
14:26.03murb(as they can't overcommit memory)
14:27.08Leedsany recommendations?
14:27.51murbI'm trying to think of some of the people active on xen-devel.
14:32.45murbLeeds: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/HostingWithXen
14:32.50murbalthough only lists one company.
14:33.06murbLeeds: you'd have to ask them about the 1 %.
14:35.31murbumm the US people are only cheaper if you care about lots of BW.
14:36.03Leedswhich I don't
14:36.57CopeLeeds: yes it is
14:40.13mozrathttp://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/plain_text.html :)
14:40.27mozratTitle: Plain text email fetish
14:41.58Leedshm... $20 per month is pretty cheap
14:43.10Erwinhehe, xah Lee is a super-troll
14:43.46mozratErwin: yes
14:45.11gregjlol
14:55.25Leedsthen there's http://linode.com/ which is more uml
14:58.00murbother questions for hmm stuff stuff are: do you get virtual console access. Can you supply your own kernel? If not what kernel version do you get, do you get the kernel source?
15:00.07Leedsyeah
15:01.46rhoweLeeds: No hosting companies in HK?
15:02.22murbI'm should do some more work on my menu shell.
15:02.57Leedsrhowe: there are... but, well, I'd prefer to host in York than HK :-)
15:03.18rhoweLeeds: .jp? .kr?
15:03.28Leedsuh, no
15:06.42*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@ipvpn095205.netvigator.com)
15:08.54*** join/#gllug resuDaed (n=tom@ACBD64BD.ipt.aol.com)
15:09.53resuDaedanyone have any idea why echo -e search \n nameserver 205.188.146.145 doesn't produce a newline (at \n)
15:10.14LeedsresuDaed: try \\
15:10.25resuDaed(using debian etch)
15:11.01resuDaedosiris% echo \\
15:11.02resuDaed\
15:11.18resuDaedosiris% echo \n
15:11.18resuDaedn
15:11.24Leedsecho -n \\n
15:12.19resuDaedLeeds : it works, but why do I have to escape the escape char? (or is that the shell interfering)
15:12.21Leedswow, gcc takes a long time to build
15:12.42Leedsthe shell sees the commandline first - by the time it gets to echo, the \\ has been reduced to \
15:13.14resuDaedbut how does the shell get from \n to n?
15:14.19Leeds\ in that context escapes the n - which doesn't do anything, but if it was, say, a *, \* means "*" rather than "a wildcard matching multiple things"
15:14.59Leedsoh, and you don't want the space after the \n
15:15.11resuDaedLeeds : cheers
15:15.24Leedspleasure
15:16.53Leedsby the way, happy diwali all
15:17.22wethrinHappy Mailman Reminder Day, Leeds
15:18.26Leedswethrin: indeed
15:19.17murbHappy All Saints Day
15:19.49rhowehm, apparently we're about to spam all our clients with a HTML mail offerring them free drinks
15:19.58wethrinBad rhowe!
15:20.00Leedswoo, free drinks!
15:20.19wethrinMake sure the mail gets "lost" in the mail queue, and drink the stuff yourself
15:20.38rhowewethrin: I said spam, this is going to be many a mail, individually addressed
15:20.55rhowewethrin: I didn't offer to write something to automatically address the things based on our contacts database
15:21.06wethrinmmhm
15:21.39murbrhowe: if you are really lucky there will be a nice Cc list visable for your competitiors to steal all your custoemrs with.
15:21.55rhowemurb: Nah, I've already warned against that
15:22.30rhowemurb: Also I think she's going to manually send the same message to $many individual recipients, rather than Bcc'ing it to all of them in one go
15:22.37murbrhowe: or even better a mailman list, configured so subscribers can list all members.
15:22.56LeedsCope: out of interest, as first responder, want a bytemark referral if it comes to it?
15:22.56rhowemurb: Or, even better, an unmoderated, public mailman list :)
15:22.57murbrhowe: would be nicer to bcc if you are not using verp
15:23.14murbsince then you only deliver one copy / email domain
15:23.31murband clever mailsoftare can then decide to save only one copy.
15:23.56rhowemurb: I think they plan on tailoring the message body to each recipient... manually
15:24.13murbrhowe: ouch! have they not heard of mail merge?
15:24.25murbor ouch you don't have enough customers!
15:24.26Leedsmurb: that's a newfangled thing, isn't it?
15:24.53rhowemurb: heh, they're using Thunderbird
15:25.33rhowemurb: Thunderbird doesn't do mail merge. It'd be rather trivial for me to write something that'd take a preprepared message, fill in relevent bits with information from the database and then drop it into their drafts folder though
15:26.08Georgeyay
15:26.12Georgemy laptop's coming
15:26.13Georgewoooo
15:26.19murbrhowe: oh imap tastic?
15:27.22rhowemurb: Yup
15:31.16CopeLeeds: oooh, thank you
15:34.06Leedshmm... I hear good things about CentOS support and upgrades :-0
15:34.20Copehoorah!
15:34.32Leedsnot doing it now, just checking out the order form
15:36.06murbLeeds: you shouldn't pay VAT as it is service.
15:36.17Leedsah, good
15:36.21murbfor colocation you might have to pay VAT as it is equiv. of renting a very small room in london.
15:36.22*** join/#gllug JAV (n=JAV@105.Red-80-34-40.staticIP.rima-tde.net)
15:36.53murbLeeds: however it depends on the advice given the Bytemark by HMRCE or wahver they are called this phase.
15:37.08murbLeeds: they've been giving out contradictionary advice :(.
15:37.27murbNominet still don't have a clear answer wrt domain registrations.
15:38.16Leedsnow, HK doesn't really have counties or cities, or postcodes, so I tend to end up with addresses ending HK, Hong Kong, Hong Kong, Hong Kong :-)
15:38.48murbLeeds: I just use street number, town, postcode.
15:39.06murbthe postcode is conviently. DE-65197
15:39.13Leedslots of places require those fields to be filled in
15:39.47Leeds"No VAT / sales tax is due on these prices, since you are outside of the European Union."
15:40.08murbLeeds: whoever sent my tax return deserves a special prize for truncating the house number.
15:40.16murbon the address label!
15:40.21Leedsdoh!
15:41.14rhowemurb: heh, incompetency knows no bounds :)
15:41.54resuDaedapparantly I am banned from the #debian channel?
15:42.32mozratresuDaed: Whoops
15:42.44LeedsresuDaed: that'll teach you to use ubuntu
15:42.51murbresuDaed: it does have a rather long ban list.
15:42.53resuDaedLeeds : I am using debian
15:43.06resuDaedmurb : but how/why am I on it?
15:43.14LeedsresuDaed: that'll teach you to use debian
15:43.15murbban *!*@*.ipt.aol.com
15:43.34resuDaedgrrrr: my fscking flatmates --- I knew aol was a bad idea
15:43.38murbresuDaed: that'll teach you for using aol.
15:43.48resuDaedmurb : I don't get a say in the matter
15:44.00wethrinThat's quite harsh of them, though
15:44.01mozratresuDaed: get a freeshell account and use irssi and screen
15:44.06wethrinSome people actually use AOL for a good reason
15:44.11murbresuDaed: get a paid virtual machine :-)
15:44.20wethrinSuch as travelling a lot between countries
15:44.40resuDaedit costs me 4GBP/mo to use aol or the cost of a second line + charges to use my own choice of isp
15:44.46murbwethrin: not such a perfect idea now days that there are internet cafes on every corner.
15:45.12Leedsand affordable/free wifi in a lot of places too
15:45.13resuDaedmurb : why is .ipt.aol.com banned anyway
15:45.13murbresuDaed: so splash out on a shell account somehere or something?
15:45.27murbresuDaed: no eye deer
15:45.28Leedshell, even grps isn't always appalling nowadays
15:46.20resuDaedbrb, logging in to my home machine (unless the have banned *.blueyonder.*
15:49.48mozratIs there an official Fedora Core Live CD?
15:52.23*** join/#gllug resuDaed (n=tom@82-45-243-170.cable.ubr01.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk)
15:52.36resuDaeddoh! forgot what port I left ssh on :-)
15:52.56wethrinha
15:52.58murbresuDaed: nmap?
15:53.07mozrathistory ?
15:53.15resuDaedmurb : yeah, thats how I rememberd
15:53.25resuDaedmozrat : never logged in to it from my flat before
15:53.34mozratbugger :)
15:53.35murbresuDaed: vi ~/.ssh/config ...
15:53.42resuDaedI left it on :23
15:53.44murbresuDaed: you have two homes?
15:54.23resuDaedmurb : yes(ish) I am studying in sheffield, but I still have my mothers house in London
15:54.39resuDaed(well she has it, and I live there from time to time)
15:54.42murbresuDaed: oh so you've given up working?
15:54.57murbor saved enough to go to uni?
15:55.03Leedswhat are you reading?
15:55.09resuDaedno, I study full time and I work
15:55.43resuDaedLeeds : am studying an extended degree in engineering (probably mechanincal)
15:56.20murbunfortunly i ended up paying council tax :(.
15:56.34murb(due to being too honest)
15:56.59resuDaedand in the last 2 weeks, I have been at uni a total of 50 hours, worked in excess of 100 hours and done 3 assignments
15:57.23wethrinThat seems silly
15:57.30resuDaedand been out drinking at least 6 nights and consumed probably nearly 2 packets of pro plus
15:57.45wethrinHow many heart attacks?
15:58.06resuDaedwethrin : tell me about it, but it was the only way I could financially survive till christmas
15:58.20wethrinD'oh
15:59.12resuDaedgo back to work at beginning of december and will work almost every day till mid february while sitting all semester 1 exams
15:59.34wethrinGet a higher paid job
15:59.38murbresuDaed: so you don't have a very well paid job?
15:59.45resuDaedthere are not many that fit around uni
16:00.10resuDaedbetween 5.51/hour and 37/hour depending on time of day and nature of job at hand
16:00.28murbresuDaed: you couldn't tele-work for ex-employer?
16:00.40resuDaedususally between 5.51 and 11.02/hr
16:01.11resuDaedmurb : been doing non-IT for the last year
16:01.49murbresuDaed: oh?
16:02.48resuDaedbeen a freelance theatre techie (and still am), I work mostly at the crucilbe and lyceum in sheffield now
16:03.18murbresuDaed: oh so self employed.
16:03.38resuDaeda mix of self employed and casual contract
16:05.29resuDaedanyway, must go -- have 3 hours of maths to come this evening yet
16:05.35wethrinfun :)
16:05.35mozratlaters resuDaed
16:05.41wethrincya later
16:29.36*** join/#gllug George (i=george@kde/developer/gwright)
16:41.19Leedshttp://www.tripso.com/archives/2005/11/departures.html
16:43.17*** join/#gllug highbury (n=steve@81.170.11.84)
16:49.03skuggresuDaed_: somehow i don't think going out drinking 6 nights in 2 weeks is necessary to financially survice till christmas.
17:00.20*** join/#gllug formi (n=formi@82-35-232-163.cable.ubr01.camd.blueyonder.co.uk)
17:00.54formihiya
17:01.16*** join/#gllug mikejw_ (n=mikejw@84-51-159-23.michae611.adsl.metronet.co.uk)
17:06.07Georgeibot: 61/63
17:06.08ibot0.968253968254
17:06.37wethrinPff. Can't you do that in your head?
17:06.40Leedshttp://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-10549-iDisk+Diamond%2C+even+in+your+ear.html
17:06.52Georgewethrin: willing to help a spanish dude with a little dilemma?
17:07.02wethrinGeorge: The answer is beer.
17:07.23formishould I jump in?
17:07.26Georgewethrin: it's to do with a job and birmingham and spain and his grasp of the english language
17:07.49wethrinI think formi would be better qualified to answer
17:07.59Georgeactually, never mind.
17:12.09skuggformi: ditch it.
17:12.30Leedsformi: I suggest python + postgres
17:12.49formithe crux of the matter is that I have 3 tables, and i am adding a record that spans the 3 of them
17:12.52rhoweformi: bash + sqlite
17:12.55skuggexcept python doesn't have a db abstraction layer, according to my colleague
17:13.16Leedsit doesn't have an abstraction layer, but it does have a defined interface for database modules
17:13.20formimy request for help didn't mention flame wars!!
17:13.30murbformi in non flaming shocker!
17:13.31skuggformi: ok. myisam? innodb?
17:13.38rhoweformi: I think you'll find that you need to have a transaction there, with 3 seperate INSERTs.. oh wait, mySQL doesn't do transactions, does it?
17:13.49Leedsrhowe: 5 does, doesn't it?
17:13.50skuggrhowe: yes it does.
17:14.02skuggrhowe: but not with myisam tables.
17:14.07rhoweskugg: Oh, they've implemented it now, have they?
17:14.08Leedsyou probably have to use the Oracle table type
17:14.09skugghence my question :)
17:14.18formiphpmkr_query($sSql, $conn) or (phpmkr_query($dd_Sql, $conn) and die("Failed to execute query: " .phpmkr_error() . '<br>SQL: ' . $sSql));
17:14.21Leedsaka innodb
17:14.27skuggrhowe: no, it's been present for some time if you're using innodb. but almost nobody does.
17:14.53formiok my issue is how "glue" the second part after the "or"
17:15.41formibasically it reads, add the record to a single table, if something goes wrong delete the record added to the previous table and then "die"
17:15.57Leedsthat's a transaction :-)
17:16.20skugghomebrew transactions. nice.
17:17.08formithe original statement, for the previos table was     phpmkr_query($sSql, $conn) or die("Failed to execute query: " . phpmkr_error() . '<br>SQL: ' . $sSql);
17:18.25formiwhat I am not sure is if "(phpmkr_query($dd_Sql, $conn) and die("Failed to execute query: " .phpmkr_error() . '<br>SQL: ' . $sSql)); " works as it seems it would
17:18.59Leedsg'night all
17:19.11forminight Leeds
17:19.11wethrinnn Leeds
17:19.16skuggnot sure. what happens if $dd_Sql (delete sql?) fails?
17:19.25skuggseems to me your die will not be executed.
17:20.58formithe delete sql has a small chance of failing as it is the same used to INSERT in the previous statement
17:21.17formiwhich at this point was executed successfully
17:30.13skuggok. lemme get this right; you require that some insert is happening EITHER into 3 separate tables, OR none at all. right?
17:37.37formithat is the idea
17:38.11formiif it doesn't happen on the first INSERT it will die
17:38.44formiif it happens on the 2nd INSERT I want to detele the 1st one and die
17:38.59skuggok. you need a transaction then. really.
17:39.11skuggdo you have control over the mysql server?
17:39.17formiyes I do
17:39.39skuggcan you use the innodb table type?
17:39.47formiyeap
17:40.13skuggthen you should do that, and open a transaction, do your inserts and close the transaction.
17:40.45formiare you talkin about one of those multiple JOIN statements?
17:40.59skuggnote that if you rely on things like 'select (*) from foo' to be very fast your code will suck camels if you do this.
17:41.40skuggno, just open a transaction, do 3 simple inserts, then close the transaction. the nature of transactions allows either all or nothing between them to succed.
17:41.57skuggmuch, much easier  than faffing around trying to do it by hand.
17:42.09formiits a really low traffic situation, worst case scenario about 5 INSERTs per second
17:42.12skuggdunno how you do that in php though, but can't be that hard...
17:42.52formiI gues there has to be a simple way of firing the transaction
17:43.03skugg(the reason being MyISAM tables are optimised for the 'select count(*) from foo' case)
17:43.18formito be fair I am cheating
17:43.38formii got handed when half the job was done
17:43.51formithey used a windows proggy called PHPMaker
17:44.35formiwhich does VIEWs as long as it is only displaying them
17:44.35skuggi think you just do a phpmkr_query('BEGIN', $conn); insert; insert; insert; phpmkr_query('COMMIT', $conn);
17:45.01skuggor something.
17:45.31*** join/#gllug Blissex (i=pcg@82-69-39-138.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
17:46.07formiok Ill investigate that
17:47.11formido i still require InnoDB to do this?
17:47.20skuggyeah.
17:47.45formiok
17:47.53formithanks for the help
17:47.54skuggor bdb, possibly, or mysql5(?)
17:48.07formii need to get home
17:48.19formiim using 5.0.15 i think
17:49.03skuggok. don't know, but i don't _think_ myisam tables under 5 has transactions. you'll have to check that too.
17:58.37*** join/#gllug Erwin (n=erwin@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/Erwin)
20:30.45morsingHiya
20:31.05morsingWhat's the user name and password for nagios after installing it?
20:34.43*** join/#gllug ibot_ (i=ibot@rikers.org)
20:34.43*** topic/#gllug is Greater London Linux Users Group - see http://gllug.org.uk and http://planet.gllug.org.uk | Next Meeting: Discovering Linux - Nov 12, University of Westminster: Open Labs, Installation and Troubleshooting help, and Phil Hands on Xen and the Debian Installer | Channel Stats: http://www.jonmasters.org/irc/gllug
20:45.44*** join/#gllug ibot_ (i=ibot@rikers.org)
20:45.44*** topic/#gllug is Greater London Linux Users Group - see http://gllug.org.uk and http://planet.gllug.org.uk | Next Meeting: Discovering Linux - Nov 12, University of Westminster: Open Labs, Installation and Troubleshooting help, and Phil Hands on Xen and the Debian Installer | Channel Stats: http://www.jonmasters.org/irc/gllug
22:03.24George"The numerous open source packages listed above were all brought together with a collection of custom programs, scripts, config files and webpages created by James Conner, George Wright and Mark Brown. Our thanks extends to them for their hard work and dedication to the service. "
22:03.28George:D
22:07.11*** join/#gllug weasl77 (n=weasl77@bigstick.force9.co.uk)
22:07.18*** join/#gllug AngelChild (n=Catalyst@jamesmorse.plus.com)
22:41.53GeorgeAngelChild: hello?
22:41.58AngelChildhi
22:47.19Georgehi
22:47.20George:P
23:02.25mozratEvening
23:02.44mozratmorsing: admin:admin AFAIK
23:04.26rhoweWhat's the 12th root of 1.013?
23:04.46rhoweibot: 1.013^-12
23:04.47ibot4294967285
23:04.54rhowehm, that's not right
23:04.59rhoweibot: 1.013^(-12)
23:05.00ibot4294967285
23:05.07rhoweibot: 1.013^(1/12)
23:05.09ibot1
23:05.51rhoweibot: NOT HELPFUL
23:08.05Erwin>>> 1.013**(1./12)
23:08.06Erwin1.0010769315803607
23:09.23Georgeibot_: 1.618^2
23:09.43Georgeibot: 1.618^2
23:09.45ibot3
23:09.50Georgeinteresting.
23:09.55Georgeibot: 1.618^2.0
23:09.56ibot3
23:10.04Georgewhy is ibot in integer mode?
23:22.24Tron_Dear $Deity, do these fireworks never stop?
23:24.13Tron_4 hours of non-stop fireworks. *twitch*
23:24.41ErwinOh yeah, is it today that's Medieval Terrorist Appreciation Day?
23:25.01Tron_Diwali?
23:27.26Tron_I thought the law was that you quit firing the feckers by 11pm
23:27.30mozratI mean, Nov 5th... go nuts
23:27.35Tron_Indeed.
23:27.39mozratit's a good tradition
23:27.51mozratI don't think anyone minds on that night - they know to keep the cat in etc
23:27.57Tron_But not 2 weeks before and after it - and then some.
23:28.03mozratbut a whole week before hand.... blergh
23:28.22mozratand yes - I believe 2300 or 2330 is the legal cutoff time
23:29.45Tron_My mother phoned me from Scotland earlier tonight, I asked if she was suffering endless fireworks, but no, the law is far stricter than in England.
23:30.56Tron_So she's living in relative peace and quiet. All the more reason for me to think that London sucks goat nads.
23:31.05mozratplus they hate to see their money go up in smoke? :P
23:31.34Tron_Bah :P
23:31.44mozrattee-hee
23:31.55Tron_See you Jimmy!
23:32.17mozrataye
23:33.56Georgemozrat: UCAS seems to think that "Engineer" falls under the category "Metal working machine operatives"
23:34.03mozratQuatarmaster is very good!
23:34.16mozratumm - however it was spelt
23:34.24mozratGeorge: :)
23:34.32mozratengineer is a vague term
23:34.41mozratMy business card has that word on it :)
23:34.58Georgehah
23:35.01Georgesoftware engineer?
23:35.13mozratSenior Systems Engineer
23:35.46Tron_Quatermass :P
23:36.01mozratthats the fella
23:37.37Georgeinteresting
23:38.01Georgemozrat: if you were to see "Occupational Background" on a UCAS form, would you think it was the family occupational background or what random employment you've had?
23:38.19mozratthe latter I think
23:38.22GeorgeI interepreted it as the family one and I think I'm fucked
23:38.28Georgebecause it's already been submitted.
23:38.31mozratheh
23:38.47GeorgeI don't believe that someone who's 17 can have an "occupational background"
23:38.48Georgewtf.
23:38.52mozratif it's submitted theres no point worrying about it
23:38.55mozratindeed
23:39.02Georgeoh well, engineer can be construed to be my own occupational background
23:39.06Georgesysadmin is a form of engineering :D
23:39.48mozrat:)
23:39.51Georgeor software engineering
23:39.54GeorgeI'm a KDE devel
23:39.55Georgehaha
23:40.09mozratyou must be - it says so on your blog
23:40.33mozratI like the new FBSD logo
23:40.39mozrathttp://logo-contest.freebsd.org/result/640-1.png
23:43.39Georgemozrat: no it doesn't
23:43.45Georgemozrat: it says I'm a clearly disturbed KDE geek
23:45.12mozratIf it were ever updated
23:52.04Georgemozrat: "You only need to enter information for occupation background, ethnic origin and national identity if you live in the UK. Your universities and colleges will not see any of this information until after they have made a decision on your application. This information helps us monitor applications and equal opportunities."
23:52.23Georgemozrat: given that information which is lifted directly out of the application documentation, would you revise your opinion to the former?
23:53.10mozratwell - it is still talking about you and not your family background as far as I can tell
23:53.26Georgegod damnit
23:53.35Georgehow much more fucking ambiguous can they get
23:53.38mozratheh
23:56.20Leedsboker tov all
23:56.39rhowehm, interesting
23:57.31rhoweAssuming my salary remains the same for the duration (which is hopefully an invalid assumption) and that the interest rate stays the same (it's tied to inflation, so unlikely), it will take me 14 years 3 months to pay off my loan
23:57.47mozratwow
23:57.51mozratthat sucks!
23:58.07rhoweIf I put an extra £15 a month in, I will pay it off 43 months earlier, and save about £500
23:58.31mozratthats horrendous
23:58.38mozratyou should have drunk less at Uni
23:58.43rhoweHowever, if I put £15 a month into an account which pays 4% interest, after the 11 years 5 months it will take to repay the loan, I will have about £2,000

Generated by irclog2html.pl by Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc.