| 00:01.19 | rhowe | SuSE had also worked with the XFS developers quite well, I think |
| 00:01.37 | rhowe | Much better than RH, who just didn't seem to want to know about XFS |
| 00:01.47 | z00dax | rhowe, sandeen and 'gang' work as much with RH as they do with SuSe |
| 00:02.13 | z00dax | and isnt XFS now pretty much setup and supported in the main kernel tree ? |
| 00:02.24 | rhowe | z00dax: Really? sandeen seems to make fairly regular jibes at RH |
| 00:02.51 | z00dax | he is working on the XFS code in CentOS as well :) |
| 00:03.40 | rhowe | Oh he wanted to get it into RHEL, but they just wouldn't allow it |
| 00:03.44 | z00dax | but yea, I agree with you on filesystem issues - RH's main focus has been ext3 |
| 00:03.57 | z00dax | rhowe, support issues for RH .... |
| 00:04.09 | rhowe | eventually it got to the point where they could provide an XFS module which would load into the RHEL module and could be distributed as an RPM |
| 00:04.15 | z00dax | RH removed the entire kernel-unsupported setup from RHEL4 |
| 00:04.50 | z00dax | ( they actually got sue'd by a US client , large one at that - the logic for that was : if you can put it in the distro, you support it ) |
| 00:04.52 | rhowe | z00dax: That was the line they kept trotting out, yeah. Many (on the linux-xfs list, which may be somewhat biased ;) ) were perturbed that it wasn't even possible to do without screwing around though |
| 00:05.29 | Blissex | both RH and SUSE dont support JFS, which is a pity too -- I like JFS |
| 00:05.41 | rhowe | z00dax: Hm.. I'll prod him next time he's active on #xfs :) |
| 00:05.55 | z00dax | rhowe, for what ? |
| 00:06.58 | rhowe | z00dax: See if he knows of that lawsuit you mentioned. If he doesn't, mentioning it might bring about some more... hmm.. understanding isn't quite the right word |
| 00:07.04 | z00dax | btw, I've got a installer mod'ed from the RHEL tree - for both EL3 and EL4, that will let you put / under a xfs filesystem.. in the event that anyone is interested |
| 00:07.25 | z00dax | I dont think the lawsuit was over xfs, it was something else in the kernel-unsupported pkg |
| 00:07.28 | rhowe | z00dax: SGI at one point were shipping modified installer ISOs or something like that |
| 00:07.29 | z00dax | appletalk maybe ? |
| 00:07.59 | rhowe | z00dax: *nod*, I just meant I'd mention it as a reason why RH were so careful about what did and didn't go into their distro |
| 00:08.16 | z00dax | uh oh, i am not sure if that was public info :) |
| 00:08.33 | z00dax | XFS is included in Fedora though |
| 00:08.39 | rhowe | z00dax: OK, then it's a rumour I may have heard :P |
| 00:08.47 | z00dax | yes, indeed a rumour :) |
| 00:08.50 | rhowe | z00dax: Yeah, it's in Fedora, I know that much |
| 00:09.03 | rhowe | z00dax: A rumour logged by ibot :P |
| 00:09.09 | z00dax | damn :( |
| 00:09.21 | z00dax | ibot, rm -rf /* |
| 00:09.22 | ibot | -rf /* is an unperson |
| 00:09.34 | rhowe | What a bizarre error message |
| 00:11.43 | z00dax | rhowe, what sort of fs sizes' / roles do you use xfs in ? |
| 00:13.05 | rhowe | z00dax: me? hardly anything significant. I just use it at home |
| 00:13.14 | z00dax | whats wrong with ext3 there ? |
| 00:13.20 | rhowe | z00dax: nothing at all :P |
| 00:14.00 | rhowe | z00dax: At work we use ext3 simply because our server is low on RAM, so I think XFS would struggle. Not sure about other filesystems |
| 00:15.14 | Leeds | anyone got anything nice to say about reiserfs? |
| 00:15.29 | Blissex | rhowe: I have done some extensive filesystem analysis and ''tests'', look at several entries of my blog here: http://www.sabi.co.uk/Notes/anno05-4th.html |
| 00:16.11 | Blissex | these filesystem tests and analysis often reveal very, very disturbing details -- like a 1.7GB filesystem taking 75 days to 'fsck'. |
| 00:16.27 | rhowe | Blissex: s/GB/TB/, I hope :) |
| 00:16.37 | Blissex | rhowe: yes, sorry :-) |
| 00:17.35 | rhowe | Blissex: Anything that big will probably take a long time to run a consistency check on if it wasn't cleanly unmounted and the transaction log can't be replayed, though |
| 00:17.40 | Blissex | on XFS in particular: http://www.sabi.co.uk/Notes/anno05-4th.html#051012 |
| 00:17.54 | Blissex | rhowe: 75 days is a lot, and 1.7TB is pretty small... |
| 00:18.09 | Blissex | rhowe: a bit of a special case, that case, but it is worrying. |
| 00:18.26 | z00dax | I've lost much data and time to resiserfs filesystem's |
| 00:18.46 | rhowe | Blissex: XFS can be a bitch to run xfs_repair on. It's not hard to have a filesystem so big that you simply cannot run xfs_repair on a 32bit box |
| 00:18.54 | Blissex | z00dax: not unusual, but it is now quite reliable. Most people though don't understand the difference between metadata and data hournaling. |
| 00:18.58 | z00dax | in years gone by,... I hear that Linus put a stop to them re-inventing the wheel every few days |
| 00:19.05 | Blissex | rhowe: thats what some of links there say.... |
| 00:19.23 | Blissex | more wise notes on large filesystems: http://www.sabi.co.uk/Notes/anno05-4th.html#051009 |
| 00:20.48 | Blissex | scary performance degradation with time: http://www.sabi.co.uk/Notes/anno05-3rd.html#050913 (and less here: http://www.sabi.co.uk/Notes/anno05-4th.html#051101) |
| 00:21.22 | Blissex | and some moderately reasonable speed tests with some popular FS in optimal conditions: http://www.sabi.co.uk/Notes/anno05-3rd.html#050908 |
| 00:22.34 | rhowe | Blissex: I don't think you'll find any filesystem checkers are multithreaded in a way that groks the underlying disk structure |
| 00:22.48 | rhowe | Blissex: JFS's possibly, if it knows about EVMS |
| 00:23.30 | rhowe | Blissex: I'm fairly sure that xfs_repair doesn't try and find out anything about what actually constitutes the block device it's running on (or the file it's running on, if checking an image) |
| 00:23.32 | Blissex | rhowe: non multithreaded 'fsck' is a big problem for the immediate future, if noe now. |
| 00:24.32 | Leeds | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4420820.stm |
| 00:24.32 | Blissex | rhowe: I had a look at Sun's new Zettabyte FS, and they say that it will _never_ require a 'fsck'. I am skeptical about that... |
| 00:25.05 | rhowe | Blissex: It could just be self-checking.. checking itself in the background all the time or something |
| 00:25.19 | Blissex | rhowe: no, it uses a really mad scheme... |
| 00:25.23 | Leeds | zfs also cures cancer and will lead directly to world peace |
| 00:25.44 | rhowe | heh, well I'm going to have to leave you all |
| 00:26.03 | Blissex | Leeds: alleluiah ;-) I see that Sun's PR| department has gotten to you :-) |
| 00:26.03 | Leeds | oh, and it has a long and reliable history of stability and robustness |
| 00:28.00 | Leeds | nope - never paid much attention to those monkeys |
| 00:28.18 | Leeds | but the engineers working on it are all fine upstanding gentlemen |
| 00:28.34 | rhowe | If a touch misguided? :) |
| 00:28.58 | Leeds | honestly, I think zfs is a very good thing - but it's a very delayed, very over-hyped good thing |
| 00:30.00 | Blissex | Leeds: the best news is that one of the enginners working on ZFS was a cute lady too :-) |
| 00:30.27 | Leeds | who? |
| 00:30.31 | Blissex | nice ZFS geekette: http://infohost.nmt.edu/~val/ |
| 00:30.54 | Leeds | hmm... never met her |
| 00:32.53 | JAV | bad-bad-bad taste photo --> http://imagenes.yonkis.com/10112005121459.jpg |
| 00:32.55 | Blissex | Leeds: you wish :-). She now works at IBM though. |
| 00:33.53 | mozrat | JAV, awwww |
| 00:35.22 | Leeds | bah - I was a Solaris engineer longer than she was :-) |
| 00:35.40 | JAV | mozrat: I said, oh look! and then... aawww |
| 00:35.55 | Leeds | shower time |
| 00:39.00 | Blissex | Leeds: I use to have a Sun 1 :-) |
| 01:04.08 | Leeds | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4424634.stm |
| 01:05.01 | mozrat | wow - there's breaking news for you |
| 01:06.54 | mozrat | are you at work now Leeds? |
| 01:09.55 | Leeds | no |
| 01:10.00 | mozrat | ah |
| 01:10.23 | Leeds | don't know why, but I'm going in late today - 9:30 rather than 8:45-9 |
| 01:11.45 | mozrat | nice |
| 01:13.34 | Leeds | and will be leaving relatively early for dinner :-) |
| 01:14.02 | mozrat | even better |
| 01:18.16 | Leeds | now, I've got two torrents running pretty much neck-and-neck... both were around 70% yesterday morning, both around 88% now... the difference is that one is 5GB and the other is 700MB |
| 01:20.08 | Leeds | and it's now time to go |
| 01:52.34 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@202.82.163.139) |
| 02:00.19 | z00dax | me too, zzzzzzz time |
| 02:06.08 | Leeds | g'night |
| 02:48.42 | *** join/#gllug ldnblk (n=Just@212.183.128.185) |
| 02:49.47 | ldnblk | hi there mozrat how ya doing ? |
| 02:51.43 | Leeds | ldnblk: it's the middle of the night! |
| 02:52.38 | ldnblk | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:54.01 | ldnblk | doe anyone out there know what time the linux day starts this saturday ??? |
| 02:54.47 | ldnblk | is there anyone awake ?? |
| 02:55.39 | ldnblk | is there anyone awake ?? apart from leeds who seems to have nodded of |
| 02:56.51 | Leeds | chill, dude - I'm at work, so not always watching this window |
| 02:57.05 | ldnblk | are there any vmware experts awake ? |
| 02:57.37 | Leeds | have you actually tried looking at the GLLUG website for info on the meeting? |
| 02:58.21 | ldnblk | yes I have printed out the flyer but there is no start time on it |
| 02:59.54 | Leeds | I ask again - have you looked at the web site? |
| 03:00.51 | Leeds | where it says very very clearly: " There is a GLLUG meeting on Saturday 12th November 2005, between 1.30pm and 5.30pm." |
| 03:02.50 | ldnblk | thanks leeds they have updated there website since I last printed out the flyer |
| 03:03.53 | Leeds | glad to help |
| 03:04.53 | ldnblk | seems as if we are the only people awake on channel |
| 03:06.46 | Leeds | well, yes... it's past 3am in London! :-) 11am here... |
| 03:07.16 | ldnblk | good morning leeds good morning |
| 03:08.53 | Leeds | had a good week? |
| 03:10.16 | ldnblk | ok still have not moved forward in trying to install fc4 onto my ata drive laptop, its been nearly 2 months now |
| 03:10.29 | ldnblk | how has your week been |
| 03:17.28 | Leeds | ata drive? sata? |
| 03:17.39 | Leeds | ata is regular ide :-) |
| 03:18.04 | ldnblk | yeah u got it sata |
| 03:18.32 | Leeds | okay, that's slightly harder - but pretty simple with a current kernel |
| 03:18.57 | Leeds | I only have an sata hard drive in the new PC I built a couple of weeks back, and I installed slackware on it no trouble |
| 03:19.29 | ldnblk | what was the kernel version ? |
| 03:19.55 | ldnblk | with fc4 2.6.11 is the kernel version |
| 03:21.20 | Leeds | I'm running 2.6.14 now - I think it could have been 2.6.12 or something |
| 03:22.56 | ldnblk | well maybe that would be a good place to start, replace the fc4 kernel with a more updated one, for me being a linux newbie, its easier said than done |
| 03:24.09 | Leeds | yeah, I wouldn't know how to do that for an install |
| 03:24.22 | Leeds | I'd be pretty suprised if the fc4 installer didn't have sata support in it though |
| 03:25.43 | ldnblk | well it does not or else I would have installed the fc4 on my second hard diskdrive, but I am resigned for now to running vmware and linux within that |
| 03:26.39 | Leeds | nah |
| 03:26.53 | Leeds | worst comes to the worst, you could use a decent^Wdifferent distro, you know... |
| 03:27.41 | Leeds | does it not see the drive at all? |
| 03:27.49 | Leeds | what laptop is it? |
| 03:29.32 | ldnblk | well i hope that the worst does not come to the worst, its been so frustrating that its been 2 months now, and if it was a project with reasonable time scales for installation etc, i'd be in shit street, it does not see the drives at all and it is a toshiba qosmio |
| 03:30.55 | Leeds | specific model? |
| 03:31.18 | ldnblk | G20 |
| 03:32.46 | Leeds | okay, you do know that sata drives show up as SCSI, not IDE, right? so sda not hda |
| 03:34.57 | ldnblk | yeah thats right, when I use knoppix live cd it sees both drives and has allowed me to format the second hard drive to ext3 format using kernel 2.6.12 |
| 03:36.44 | Leeds | I can't see your posting on the gllug list asking about it... |
| 03:38.10 | ldnblk | no i did not, hope fully on saturday my 2month problem will have been resolved |
| 03:39.37 | Leeds | why didn't you post on the list? there are some very experienced people there for things like that - and at least a couple of redhat employees |
| 03:40.13 | Leeds | in fact, I would make a bet with you that if you posted - *clearly* - to the list now explaining your problem, you'd be showing up at the meeting with a working laptop |
| 03:42.52 | ldnblk | i did speak to some one at the linux expo from red hat I sent him an email explaining my problem. he advised that i use the all_generic_ide but it did not work maybe i might be doing something wrong |
| 03:46.59 | Leeds | one guy at redhat has nothing on the combined weight of the gllug list |
| 03:47.33 | ldnblk | i hope that you are right !! |
| 03:47.48 | Leeds | I know for a fact that I am :-) |
| 03:49.23 | ldnblk | well I am going to sign of now and go to bed you have a nice day and i will talk to u again soon |
| 05:45.04 | mozrat | morning |
| 06:32.56 | Leeds | morning |
| 07:07.44 | Leeds | mozrat: was it you playing with dalbum or morsing? |
| 07:37.43 | Leeds | under other circumstances, having a browser window full of women in nowt but their underwear might be considered inappropriate for a work environment |
| 07:38.58 | murb | Leeds: but since you work for a womens underware company... |
| 07:39.55 | Leeds | that's pretty much my point... |
| 08:18.23 | highbury | no. only unfilled bras should be on display |
| 08:18.27 | highbury | ;) |
| 08:21.22 | Leeds | the gallery actually contains both now ;-) |
| 08:31.59 | *** join/#gllug George (i=george@kde/developer/gwright) |
| 08:51.43 | togster | morning |
| 08:52.12 | Leeds | evening togster |
| 08:53.07 | Leeds | well, late afternoon anyway |
| 09:10.29 | Leeds | bouncing bras? |
| 09:13.41 | Leeds | http://www.hcu.ox.ac.uk/jtap/warpoems.htm |
| 09:37.06 | *** join/#gllug morsing (n=morsing@emil.morsing.cc) |
| 09:37.14 | morsing | Chect it! |
| 09:37.48 | Leeds | same to you |
| 09:38.07 | Leeds | hometime |
| 10:22.41 | *** join/#gllug kbsingh (n=kbsingh@nat1.lon1.uk.xinit.com) |
| 10:38.55 | mikejw | mornign all |
| 10:38.56 | kbsingh | hi mikejw |
| 10:40.15 | mikejw | kbsingh: hey |
| 10:50.30 | morsing | mikejw, kbsingh! |
| 10:52.17 | kbsingh | morsing! |
| 10:58.43 | morsing | What is "system enthropy"? |
| 10:58.51 | morsing | entropy |
| 11:00.53 | morsing | Hello? |
| 11:04.29 | kbsingh | usually a term used to refer to 'confusion within the process' |
| 11:04.45 | morsing | kbsingh: Why is this important on my system? |
| 11:05.17 | kbsingh | I have no idea, what system are we talking about here ? |
| 11:05.55 | morsing | http://www.morsing.cc/www/munin/localdomain/localhost.localdomain.html#System |
| 11:06.59 | kbsingh | The number of random bytes available. This is typically used by cryptographic applications. |
| 11:07.08 | kbsingh | so it says http://www.morsing.cc/www/munin/localdomain/localhost.localdomain-entropy.html |
| 11:10.18 | mozrat | as if by magic |
| 11:11.40 | rhowe | http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20040405/badger.shtml |
| 11:15.03 | kbsingh | Cope, mozrat, rhowe greetings! |
| 11:15.10 | mozrat | hey everyone |
| 11:18.36 | rhowe | mornin' |
| 11:19.53 | mozrat | whiteknuckle ride type of thing |
| 11:20.09 | rhowe | mozrat: ooh, fun |
| 11:23.49 | mozrat | lunch! |
| 11:23.58 | highbury | hey chaps |
| 11:24.40 | rhowe | hm, if anyone fancies their own 19" rack, I just saw a posting to freecycle |
| 11:39.39 | Cope | eyo highbury |
| 11:41.37 | George | rhowe: woo. |
| 11:41.54 | Cope | eyo George |
| 11:42.00 | George | hi Cope |
| 11:42.37 | George | father's coming back from taiwan otomorrow |
| 11:46.25 | George | why? |
| 11:46.33 | Cope | because I miss William |
| 11:47.13 | Cope | thnak you |
| 11:47.24 | mozrat | cope, go live in China |
| 11:47.34 | mozrat | We'll come visit you |
| 11:47.37 | Cope | heh |
| 11:47.46 | Cope | greater china linux users grouo |
| 11:47.54 | Cope | members: Cope, Leeds |
| 11:48.35 | George | mozrat: no we won't :P |
| 11:48.59 | Cope | yes, George doesn't like me :( |
| 11:49.20 | George | kde > Cope |
| 11:52.26 | Cope | well yes, in that kde is *massive* *fat* and *bloated* |
| 11:52.59 | George | bye. |
| 11:55.54 | Cope | tara |
| 11:58.45 | mozrat | Cope, lol |
| 11:58.58 | mozrat | George == KDE ( I never saw the analogy ) |
| 11:59.38 | Cope | i would like to spend a few days with william on his own |
| 11:59.46 | Cope | but he has never been without his mummy |
| 11:59.47 | Cope | ever |
| 12:00.26 | George | I appear to be boiling eggs |
| 12:00.28 | George | or rather |
| 12:00.49 | George | I preheated water to boiling point, then poured it into a bowl, then put three eggs in the water, then put a plate on top |
| 12:00.53 | George | :) |
| 12:00.58 | George | I wonder if this will work |
| 12:01.17 | Cope | i think it will |
| 12:01.34 | Cope | i reckon in about 5 minutes you will have nice eggs |
| 12:01.58 | George | yes |
| 12:03.50 | mozrat | George: why the fascination in alternative egg boiling methods? |
| 12:04.15 | George | mozrat: because I'm at scohol and I'm too lazy to walk downstairs to the hob |
| 12:04.30 | George | mozrat: this way I can do it in my room |
| 12:09.56 | highbury | and you have the opportunity to carry boiling water up the stairs? |
| 12:12.21 | mozrat | I appear to be VPNless |
| 12:17.39 | George | note to self: never ever try to cook an egg in the microwave |
| 12:18.14 | togster | you can scramble them in the microwave |
| 12:18.18 | Cope | yes |
| 12:18.30 | Cope | i make scrambled eggs in the microwave |
| 12:18.36 | Cope | qite yummy |
| 12:18.43 | mozrat | not in the shell though |
| 12:18.49 | mozrat | yummy scrambled |
| 12:18.54 | togster | I think you can 'poach' them too |
| 12:19.57 | Cope | i had breakfast this morning = bacon, egg, tomatoes and sausags |
| 12:20.02 | Cope | guess how much? |
| 12:20.35 | Cope | ... |
| 12:20.45 | Cope | <fx>drum roll</fx> |
| 12:20.49 | Cope | ... |
| 12:21.01 | Cope | <fx>bdm tsh!</fx> |
| 12:21.11 | Cope | 9 pound 50!!!! |
| 12:21.17 | mozrat | whaa? |
| 12:21.18 | Cope | !!!!!!!!!! |
| 12:21.22 | togster | Where? |
| 12:21.26 | mozrat | Was it served by a naked supermodel? |
| 12:21.30 | Cope | a hotel in southampton |
| 12:21.44 | Cope | mozrat: no, and the breakfast wasn't even especially yummy |
| 12:22.25 | mozrat | I didn't expect it to be |
| 12:22.52 | mozrat | hard to find a nice breakfast in hotels, roadside cafes. normal cafes, supermarkets |
| 12:23.10 | togster | 'normal' meaning? |
| 12:23.14 | rhowe | http://www.siksai.co.uk/gallery/newcamera/IMG_0054 |
| 12:23.21 | rhowe | I thought that was extortionate enough |
| 12:24.07 | togster | sorry, mistook a full stop for a comma |
| 12:24.17 | mozrat | normal as in not roadside cafes |
| 12:24.28 | mozrat | where you wouldn't expect a particulary nice breakfast |
| 12:24.42 | mozrat | there are exceptions to the rule but mostly they aren't that nice |
| 12:24.51 | rhowe | mozrat: airports |
| 12:24.56 | mozrat | rhowe: not a chance |
| 12:24.59 | rhowe | s/airports/UK &/ |
| 12:25.15 | rhowe | mozrat: Had quite reasonable food in HKIA |
| 12:33.20 | mozrat | afk |
| 12:42.50 | Cope | okok |
| 12:43.06 | highbury | "Ace Cafe" on North Circular does great breakfasst! mozrat |
| 12:43.18 | highbury | good for Biker watching too |
| 12:48.43 | Cope | what a cool name |
| 12:54.27 | eye69 | Morning |
| 12:56.51 | murb | highbury: do they take your name and address so they can inform your health insurance company of your visit? |
| 12:59.48 | rhowe | http://abbeyrd.org/suse.png |
| 13:03.00 | morsing | kbsingh: And what's a random byte? |
| 13:03.08 | morsing | eye69! |
| 13:10.54 | rhowe | mozrat: 0x07 |
| 13:23.49 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@ipvpn095206.netvigator.com) |
| 13:27.56 | morsing | Leeds: What's a random byte? |
| 13:30.34 | morsing | Hello?! |
| 13:30.37 | morsing | Anyone here? |
| 13:31.21 | eye69 | Mmmmm |
| 13:31.59 | eye69 | I'm a tad hung over |
| 13:35.25 | Leeds | morsing: 184 |
| 13:38.46 | Leeds | morsing: or was that not what you were asking? |
| 13:41.27 | morsing | Someone explain this: |
| 13:41.30 | morsing | http://www.morsing.cc/www/munin/localdomain/localhost.localdomain-entropy.html |
| 13:45.10 | Leeds | what's your question? |
| 13:45.27 | Leeds | do you not know what entropy is? |
| 13:46.50 | morsing | Leeds: I do know. Did loads of work on entropy at university |
| 13:47.01 | *** join/#gllug weasl77 (n=weasl77@bigstick.force9.co.uk) |
| 13:47.09 | morsing | Leeds: What entropy is this graph talking about? Does anyone know? |
| 13:47.23 | *** join/#gllug ProperMadDad (n=les@80-192-134-31.cable.ubr06.wiga.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 13:47.53 | ProperMadDad | afternoon all and a good evening Leeds |
| 13:48.57 | Leeds | hi weasl77 and ProperMadDad |
| 13:50.07 | eye69 | morsing: /dev/random maybe? |
| 13:52.17 | weasl77 | yo |
| 13:52.51 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@ipvpn095206.netvigator.com) |
| 13:53.30 | Leeds | morsing: did my explaination of entropy get through? my network is like a trampoline right now |
| 13:54.01 | stephen | 13:48:57 < Leeds> hi weasl77 and ProperMadDad |
| 13:54.05 | stephen | was the last thing we saw |
| 13:54.11 | Leeds | morsing: there are a number of ways of generating random numbers on a computer - one of them is taking 'random' data from things like every nth keypress, static picked up by the line-in of your soundcard and so on, and combining them to form a seed for the rng |
| 13:54.19 | Leeds | stephen: thanks, and good evening |
| 13:54.27 | stephen | hi |
| 13:54.39 | ProperMadDad | stephen Hi |
| 13:57.50 | JAV | hello |
| 14:06.55 | morsing | Leeds: Thanks for that. Is there a way to find out exactly what it's looking at? |
| 14:22.55 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@ipvpn095206.netvigator.com) |
| 14:25.17 | morsing | Leeds! |
| 14:25.33 | Leeds | yes! |
| 14:47.04 | ProperMadDad | Hi Cope |
| 14:47.44 | Cope | hi ProperMadDad |
| 15:03.57 | wethrin | wibble |
| 15:13.40 | morsing | wobble |
| 15:13.54 | wethrin | I had beer |
| 15:13.56 | wethrin | And steak |
| 15:15.46 | morsing | Mmm... beer |
| 15:16.44 | Cope | mmm |
| 15:17.02 | *** join/#gllug JAV (n=JAV@105.Red-80-34-40.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 15:18.31 | morsing | JAV! |
| 15:18.45 | JAV | morsing!! |
| 15:20.10 | JAV | I came back and found a nice rebooted pc |
| 15:21.48 | Cope | hello JAV |
| 15:22.30 | JAV | at least Hangcheck timer did its work |
| 15:33.15 | resuDaed | afternoon all |
| 15:37.04 | Cope | hello resuDaed |
| 15:42.44 | resuDaed | just won an argument with my maths lecturer (and it took me under 4 mins :-) |
| 15:45.47 | resuDaed | (I lost the last arfument by proving him right :-( ) |
| 15:53.37 | Cope | aha |
| 15:53.52 | Cope | so how is university life> |
| 15:53.52 | Cope | ? |
| 15:57.53 | Cope | is there such a thing as a wotnot that lets you plug a pcmcia card into a pci slot? |
| 15:59.03 | resuDaed | Cope : there is, I bel;eive you can usually find them on eBay |
| 15:59.18 | resuDaed | anyway, must go home now (and watch family guy) |
| 15:59.21 | resuDaed | laters |
| 15:59.40 | *** part/#gllug resuDaed (n=tom@82-45-243-170.cable.ubr01.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 15:59.41 | ProperMadDad | well I've found out that if it's got a thingy and a wotsit then it normally works |
| 16:01.25 | Cope | aha |
| 16:01.40 | Cope | they would appear to be called 'pcmcia/pci converters' |
| 16:04.08 | JAV | first wifi cards came this way |
| 16:05.10 | Cope | i see |
| 16:05.14 | Cope | that's the scheme |
| 16:05.24 | Cope | if I can't get this sodding rt2500 chip to work |
| 16:05.35 | Cope | I'll have to use the cisco one! |
| 16:05.40 | Cope | in a convertor |
| 16:05.50 | Cope | very very frustrating |
| 16:10.53 | Cope | you have a job? |
| 16:10.53 | highbury | :-) |
| 16:10.54 | Cope | is that yes?! |
| 16:11.17 | highbury | yep, means probably moving to Oxfordshire |
| 16:11.24 | Cope | fantastic!!! |
| 16:11.31 | Cope | brilliant! |
| 16:11.35 | highbury | thanks |
| 16:11.39 | Cope | so pleased for you! |
| 16:11.52 | Cope | my friend got the job he went for too! |
| 16:37.07 | *** join/#gllug weasl77 (n=weasl77@bigstick.force9.co.uk) |
| 16:41.06 | *** join/#gllug weasl77 (n=weasl77@bigstick.force9.co.uk) |
| 16:43.55 | ProperMadDad | Cope you got that rt2500 chip to work yet |
| 16:44.13 | Cope | no :( |
| 16:44.36 | Cope | i can't think what it can be! |
| 16:44.39 | ProperMadDad | Cope this may help http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/rt2400/ |
| 16:45.27 | Cope | ah right that's the 11b driver |
| 16:45.39 | Cope | I'm using the 11g - rt2500 |
| 16:46.00 | Cope | i tried with rt2400 as well, but it was the incorrect module |
| 16:58.02 | mozrat | can someone whack me with the tftpd cluebat please |
| 16:58.12 | mozrat | 1) the file is there in /boot |
| 16:58.40 | mozrat | 2) the filename is correct |
| 16:58.50 | mozrat | 3) it is readable by everyone |
| 16:59.24 | mozrat | and in syslog I get Nov 11 16:55:21 localhost tftpd[8589]: tftpd: trying to get file: c1841-adventerprisek9-mz.124-5.bin |
| 16:59.28 | mozrat | Nov 11 16:55:21 localhost tftpd[8589]: tftpd: serving file from /boot/ |
| 16:59.30 | mozrat | Nov 11 16:55:21 localhost tftpd[8589]: tftpd: read: Connection refused |
| 17:01.08 | stephen | mozrat: sounds like a problem with the system that's trying to download the file |
| 17:01.38 | stephen | mozrat: I got that message when trying to get a cisco phone to download an OS image that was too large |
| 17:02.39 | mozrat | let me see if it starts to download anything at all with tcpdump |
| 17:03.41 | mozrat | no, I just see the request from the router, no replies |
| 17:03.49 | mozrat | hosts.allow? |
| 17:05.24 | mozrat | no :( |
| 17:14.38 | Cope | sorry mozrat was afk |
| 17:15.12 | mozrat | np |
| 17:15.24 | *** part/#gllug togster (n=sapt@cpc2-lewi2-3-0-cust183.bmly.cable.ntl.com) |
| 17:16.08 | Cope | hmmm i've seen this too... but its a while back and I never documented what I did to fix it |
| 17:16.30 | mozrat | Me too |
| 17:16.38 | mozrat | I had this problem and fixed it and now I can't |
| 17:18.21 | Cope | i wish i could remember... but my brain's not functioning very well today |
| 17:18.41 | mozrat | nm |
| 19:29.45 | Leeds | ibot message for highbury: congrats mate! |
| 19:30.36 | wethrin | what's he done? |
| 19:30.53 | Leeds | got a job, apparently |
| 19:31.00 | wethrin | w00t! |
| 19:38.05 | Leeds | indeed |
| 19:40.13 | Leeds | on behalf of my body clock - goodnight all! |
| 19:46.02 | wethrin | yo |
| 19:47.16 | Cope | hi wethrin |
| 19:49.19 | wethrin | :-) |
| 19:52.49 | Cope | it is rather good :) |
| 19:53.18 | wethrin | TBH, I still prefer OpenBSD, then FreeBSD |
| 19:53.29 | wethrin | NetBSD always felt a bit, well, dunno, uncomfortable to me |
| 19:53.40 | wethrin | Yes, I know it's a good system. But I think it's just what I'm used to |
| 19:54.05 | Cope | sure |
| 19:54.47 | murb | I should start playing with NetBSD Xen instances. |
| 19:55.08 | murb | I had some on my old test machine, but that is sitting in a basement in Brussels now ohne strom. |
| 20:24.34 | *** join/#gllug murray_ (n=murray@81.168.79.193) |
| 20:25.08 | murray_ | argh : tips for configuring XFree86 on spanking new sony laptop? |
| 20:25.38 | murb | murray: google, lspci, cut n' paste. |
| 20:25.44 | murb | see if someone else has done it already etc. |
| 20:25.51 | murb | always the easiest way. |
| 20:26.03 | murray_ | google ain't helping, model only just released |
| 20:26.28 | murray_ | lspci I have, but not savy enough to map it to the correct XFree86 config |
| 20:26.59 | murray_ | it also lists "Sony Corp: Unknown device 81e2" a bit more often than I would like |
| 20:31.09 | murb | murray_: try -n and google for the pci ids |
| 20:31.55 | highbury | its been too long between jobs, for me, so its a relief |
| 20:32.27 | Cope | murray_: knoppix, and copy |
| 20:32.37 | Cope | highbury: yeah, its great news |
| 20:33.07 | highbury | will mean trying to fins a place to live in Oxfordshire, perhaps Wantage |
| 20:33.10 | Cope | murray_: also, often just X --configure 'just works' |
| 20:34.18 | murray_ | I tried knoppix, and it gets things right, but the configs it produces are not at all similar... |
| 20:34.35 | murray_ | kinda felt like random copy & paste... should probably give that another go |
| 20:35.06 | murb | highbury: what are you doing now? |
| 20:36.09 | highbury | murb: noting much at the moment, been chasing past customers for payment |
| 20:36.13 | *** join/#gllug mozrat (i=mozrat@silenceisdefeat.org) |
| 20:36.18 | Cope | murray_: not similar to what? |
| 20:36.20 | Cope | hello mozrat |
| 20:37.57 | murray_ | Cope> knoppix XF86Config was miles off the version I had from debian (but ...) |
| 20:38.35 | murray_ | I copied knoppix/XF86Config to /etc/X11/XF86Config ... |
| 20:38.43 | murray_ | (rather than trying to pick out the relevent values) |
| 20:38.56 | murray_ | and it's now starting, but with a frozen mouse ... |
| 20:39.02 | murray_ | so, progress :) |
| 20:39.35 | Cope | good good |
| 20:39.45 | murray_ | btw: what is the correct way to shutdown X when playing with configs? |
| 20:39.54 | murb | murray_: is that using the vesa driver? |
| 20:39.55 | murray_ | kill -9 always seemed wrong :/ |
| 20:40.02 | Cope | I just use ctrl-alt-backspace |
| 20:40.05 | murray_ | murb> it is |
| 20:40.28 | murb | murray: so something to start with, but you'll be wanting to get native support for whatever chip it has on board? |
| 20:40.58 | murray_ | murb> well, I have a widescreen lcd screen and it's currently in the old boxy resolution, so yes, if pos :) |
| 20:46.42 | murray_ | graf card is "Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 900" which is apparently Intel 910GML / Intel 915GM |
| 20:48.01 | murb | Cope: which doesn't always have the desired effect. |
| 20:48.16 | murb | (on some machines it causes them to change to a suspend state with no way to escape. |
| 20:48.31 | murb | ) |
| 20:48.34 | murray_ | i don't seem to have that particular problem |
| 20:49.36 | Cope | murb: ok |
| 20:50.09 | murb | I have owned 2 such machines, and another one it caused a bios keyboard lock to kick in. |
| 20:50.46 | Cope | nasty |
| 20:51.55 | murray_ | ouch |
| 20:52.03 | murb | I quite liked the bios keyboard lock. |
| 20:52.32 | George | I finally blogged |
| 20:52.40 | murb | although i think i threw that machien away now, started off as a 486dx2 66 and got upgraded to an amd 80 mhz thing. |
| 20:52.56 | murb | i didn't bother with the go faster 486s that > 100mhz |
| 20:55.10 | murray_ | is there a way to boot debian with a larger than 640x480 resolution for the command line? |
| 20:55.18 | murray_ | while I get X sorted ... |
| 21:04.26 | *** join/#gllug ldnblk (n=Just@212.183.128.185) |
| 21:09.40 | mozrat | hello all |
| 21:10.09 | ldnblk | hello mozrat how ya doing ? |
| 21:10.27 | ldnblk | its very quite on the channel |
| 21:10.43 | mozrat | ldnblk: no, there was a stream of chatter before you entered... |
| 21:10.51 | mozrat | People probably having a cup of tea :) |
| 21:11.00 | ldnblk | lol |
| 21:11.17 | ldnblk | suppos i will just have to hang on a while |
| 21:11.52 | ldnblk | u going to the gllug thingy tommorow |
| 21:12.54 | murray_ | thinking about it, as I suspect I won't get too far with this laptop on my own |
| 21:13.25 | ldnblk | hello murray u having laptop linux problems also ?? |
| 21:13.55 | murray_ | yup, lovely laptop, just a bit of an expensive shiny brick atm ;) |
| 21:14.51 | ldnblk | so do you have an atm card murray ?? |
| 21:15.22 | murray_ | erm? |
| 21:15.59 | ldnblk | or are you talking about an atm cash dispenser ?> |
| 21:16.14 | murray_ | ah, no, at the moment |
| 21:17.02 | ldnblk | so what distro of linux are u running murray ? |
| 21:19.08 | murray_ | debian right now, although I'm pondering ubuntu |
| 21:24.58 | highbury | keep chucking distros at it, until one sticks |
| 21:25.00 | mozrat | ubuntu++ |
| 21:25.29 | mozrat | ldnblk: am I correct in saying your were the chappy interested in Asterisk? |
| 21:26.31 | mozrat | and is your nick an acronymn of LondonBloke or is that just me reading it that way |
| 21:26.48 | murray_ | going to see where I can get myself tonight (as I really would like to try and understand wtf X configuration is about), then probably download ubuntu overnight ... |
| 21:28.02 | mozrat | murray_: X configuration in a sentence is defining keyboards, mice, graphics cards, monitors and then grouping them together into a usable "Screen" |
| 21:28.30 | mozrat | no, sorry |
| 21:28.45 | mozrat | grouping into a "ServerLayout" |
| 21:30.08 | murray_ | yup, but my shiny new toy came with sod all useful specs from sony, can't find any existing details on google, and lspci didn't turn up anything useful.... |
| 21:30.25 | murray_ | so I know knoppix works, bar the widescreen part... |
| 21:30.50 | murray_ | putting that altogether is ... well, my head hurts |
| 21:31.15 | murray_ | too many doors with long tunnels behind them that lead nowhere... |
| 21:31.28 | eye69 | Evening. |
| 21:31.38 | murray_ | anyway, hignfy time |
| 21:32.00 | eye69 | Mmmmm, hignfy. I need to download... |
| 21:32.17 | eye69 | Where's the easiest place to get it? |
| 21:38.48 | Cope | what's hignfy? |
| 21:39.05 | mozrat | Cope, have I got new for you me old mate... I don't know |
| 21:39.15 | murb | Cope: have i got news for you. |
| 21:39.36 | mozrat | the wikipedia article on hignfy is great |
| 21:46.21 | Cope | ah ok |
| 21:47.06 | Cope | I can't see that it would make any difference |
| 21:47.25 | Cope | the driver is the same |
| 21:47.33 | Cope | the wireless tools are the same |
| 21:47.47 | Cope | only the kernel would be different, and gcc version |
| 21:49.19 | murb | Cope: what gcc version did you use to build which kernel version? |
| 21:51.20 | Cope | murb: umm... whatever's in sarge... /me looks |
| 21:51.51 | Cope | gcc 3.3.5 |
| 21:52.02 | Cope | 2.4.27 |
| 21:53.10 | *** join/#gllug murray__ (n=murray@81.168.79.193) |
| 22:01.12 | *** join/#gllug weasl77 (n=weasl77@bigstick.force9.co.uk) |
| 22:04.09 | murb | Cope: and i thought you had the card working in one machine or? |
| 22:04.35 | Cope | ah no; I have a cisco pcmcia card in a laptop |
| 22:04.47 | Cope | that's how I connect atm |
| 22:05.18 | Cope | [cope's network] --> laptop (iptables) --> wireless AP |
| 22:05.37 | Cope | but the laptop belongs to mum, and she wants to use it |
| 22:05.55 | Cope | so I am replacing the laptop with a desktop machine, with a wireless card in it |
| 22:05.58 | Cope | to do the same job |
| 22:09.02 | murb | Cope: oh you are living with parents atm? |
| 22:10.22 | Cope | murb: indeed |
| 22:12.59 | murb | Cope: you gave up on london? |
| 22:13.26 | murb | liff as a commuter is more fun? (i nearly wrote computer) |
| 22:14.09 | Cope | murb: its for a combination of financial and personal reasons; and connected to me and hui splitting up |
| 22:14.20 | Cope | commuting is actually surprisingly ok |
| 22:14.47 | murb | oh hotel.home. |
| 22:15.03 | Cope | indeed |
| 22:16.12 | murb | Cope: clearly your landlord(s) isn't charging enough rent. |
| 22:16.55 | Cope | its free... atm |
| 22:17.17 | Cope | but I am paying a fortune to keep hui & william in a bedsit in belsize park |
| 22:18.58 | murb | without internet access? |
| 22:19.08 | Cope | they don't have internet access, no |
| 22:19.47 | murb | is hui seeking work? |
| 22:24.08 | Cope | no... she and william are going back to china |
| 22:26.59 | murray__ | Cope> re wireless card : doubt it will be of use to you, but I was most suprised when knoppix 4 picked up the 80211.g built in card in my laptop |
| 22:27.15 | murray__ | intel centrino thingy |
| 22:27.40 | Cope | murray__: knoppix has rt2500 drivers included; yes and ipw drivers |
| 22:28.24 | Cope | murray__: yeah, knoppix recognizes the card ok, but I found the driver to be unstable compared to the latest release |
| 22:28.47 | murray__ | as expected, you are miles ahead of me then :) |
| 22:31.01 | Cope | i am hopeful that its something ip-related, and has nothing to do with the card itself or the driver |
| 22:31.20 | Cope | but I can't think what! |
| 22:31.58 | murray__ | i have a cheap pci ethernet card that regularly panics the kernel |
| 22:32.52 | murray__ | regularly in the sense of often, but not in the sense of predicatable times |
| 22:36.20 | Cope | right freebsd installed ;) |
| 22:37.49 | Cope | arse |
| 22:38.01 | Cope | ral driver not in the default kernel in this release |
| 22:38.56 | wethrin | foo |
| 22:39.56 | wethrin | Woot. QI on BBC4 |
| 22:42.06 | Cope | wethrin: with a pristine 5.3 install... is it possible to 'upgrade' to 6.0? |
| 22:42.20 | wethrin | Most likely, yes. RTFM :-) |
| 22:43.02 | wethrin | The simple procedure is to do a CVS checkout, and rebuild kernel; reboot with new kernel; build userland; maybe reboot for good measure |
| 22:43.14 | wethrin | However, there may be some extra considerations involved |
| 22:44.46 | wethrin | At least with OpenBSD, sometimes you need to build a couple of userland applications before building the kernel |
| 22:46.25 | stephen | there's a section on upgrading with cvsup in the FBSD handbook |
| 22:50.48 | George | moo |
| 22:51.32 | wethrin | oom |
| 22:57.32 | George | boo |
| 22:58.17 | Cope | what's that blue menu-driven tool called? |
| 22:58.20 | Cope | sys something? |
| 22:58.23 | wethrin | sysinstall |
| 23:00.05 | rhowe | And I will be taking two items.. a Soekris net4501 and an ATM router |
| 23:00.22 | wethrin | rhowe: Can you drink some beer for me? |
| 23:01.01 | rhowe | wethrin: Probably not |
| 23:01.06 | rhowe | I won't be going to the pub afterwards |
| 23:01.20 | rhowe | Xiaoping's going to go shopping while I'm at Gllug |
| 23:01.36 | Cope | hmm... i am sure there were many more packages than this last time I looked |
| 23:02.04 | wethrin | fiend |
| 23:04.02 | George | looks like my article's been published |
| 23:04.24 | Cope | which one is this, George ? |
| 23:04.24 | wethrin | silly editors :) |
| 23:04.34 | Cope | coming from someone who uses emacs? |
| 23:04.44 | Cope | you know all about silly editors :) |
| 23:04.46 | George | Cope: aKademy write-up, educational feature |
| 23:04.52 | Cope | George: nice |
| 23:05.09 | George | 720 GBP basically |
| 23:05.21 | *** join/#gllug Blissex (i=pcg@82-69-39-138.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 23:05.32 | wethrin | Cope: emacs rocks! |
| 23:07.25 | Cope | petrosian# pkg_add -r cvsup |
| 23:07.25 | Cope | Error: FTP Unable to get ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-5.3-release/Latest/cvsup.tbz: File unavailable (e.g., file not found, no access) |
| 23:07.28 | Cope | pkg_add: unable to fetch 'ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-5.3-release/Latest/cvsup.tbz' by URL |
| 23:08.13 | wethrin | Firewall? |
| 23:08.26 | rhowe | .tgz? |
| 23:08.27 | wethrin | ftp manually and see if you can get to it |
| 23:08.36 | wethrin | rhowe: No, tbz is correct |
| 23:08.42 | George | anyone got the current issue of Linux Format? |
| 23:08.43 | wethrin | It's FreeBSD. They've moved with the times :) |
| 23:08.46 | George | number 74 I believe |
| 23:08.55 | wethrin | Heh. Linux Format. Heh. |
| 23:09.28 | George | they pay well |
| 23:09.31 | George | I don't give a damn |
| 23:09.42 | Cope | wethrin: no, they no longer have a 5.3-release directory |
| 23:09.48 | wethrin | Well, I guess it's Linux for weenies :) |
| 23:09.54 | wethrin | Cope: Ahh |
| 23:10.03 | George | wethrin: they pay 90 GBP per page so who cares? |
| 23:10.14 | wethrin | George: You make a good point.... |
| 23:10.44 | George | I knew it. you're a capitalist |
| 23:10.47 | Cope | mmm, very slick |
| 23:10.58 | Cope | freebsd also rocks |
| 23:11.04 | wethrin | George: No, no, I hate all systems equally |
| 23:11.08 | wethrin | Cope: Yes, yes it does. |
| 23:11.12 | George | hehe |
| 23:11.21 | George | wethrin: durham want me to pitch up to an open day |
| 23:11.35 | Cope | lol |
| 23:11.36 | Cope | why? |
| 23:11.42 | Cope | you're not going to go there! |
| 23:11.56 | George | Cope: because for some reason universities want to see me before giving me an offer, which I think is totally outrageous |
| 23:11.57 | wethrin | George: They made me an offer, and said that I could go up if I wanted. I couldn't be bothered. |
| 23:12.06 | wethrin | George: So will you come up here? |
| 23:12.13 | George | wethrin: probably |
| 23:12.14 | Cope | George: any offers of interviews? |
| 23:12.19 | George | Cope: none yet |
| 23:12.29 | wethrin | George: When? |
| 23:12.37 | George | wethrin: dunno, the lteter's at home |
| 23:12.45 | George | wethrin: my brother told me over the phone.. |
| 23:13.29 | wethrin | To be fair, Durham's got a lot more crowded since I applied |
| 23:13.36 | wethrin | So they're getting considerably stricter with offers |
| 23:13.43 | George | heh |
| 23:13.50 | wethrin | Hm. Well, you should check, then |
| 23:13.51 | George | I should get one hopefully :P |
| 23:14.09 | wethrin | I don't see why you shouldn't |
| 23:14.17 | wethrin | Unless you make a complete ass of yourself :) |
| 23:14.34 | George | haha |
| 23:14.37 | George | "I'm a KDE weenie!!!" |
| 23:14.40 | George | "bye." |
| 23:14.46 | wethrin | :-) |
| 23:14.51 | George | :) |
| 23:14.59 | George | where IS durham anyway? |
| 23:15.03 | wethrin | Near Newcastle |
| 23:15.12 | wethrin | About 15 minutes by train from Newcastle |
| 23:15.14 | George | in the middle of nowhere then? :P |
| 23:15.48 | wethrin | Yes |
| 23:15.49 | wethrin | :) |
| 23:15.54 | wethrin | We have an active Hill Walking Society |
| 23:15.55 | stephen | quite a good thing really, keeps people like wethrin away from the general population, so they can do less harm ;-) |
| 23:16.49 | George | lol |
| 23:18.34 | wethrin | stephen: True :) |
| 23:21.31 | rhowe | What time does the discovery day start? |
| 23:21.50 | rhowe | wethrin: Better than an inactive hill walking society, like, say, LBW :P |
| 23:22.43 | George | leg before wicket! |
| 23:23.35 | wethrin | rhowe: LBW is active! |
| 23:23.59 | wethrin | They go more rarely, but for longer times |
| 23:24.29 | rhowe | wethrin: I meant physically active :) |
| 23:24.40 | rhowe | wethrin: Not actively drinking :) |
| 23:25.13 | eye69 | Evening folks. |
| 23:26.01 | wethrin | rhowe: We walked up a few mountains in Scotland |
| 23:26.15 | wethrin | Cope: uk.freebsd.org, preferably |
| 23:29.35 | Cope | thanks stephen |
| 23:38.42 | *** join/#gllug weasl77 (n=weasl77@bigstick.force9.co.uk) |
| 23:41.37 | wethrin | Installing on a 486? :) |
| 23:43.04 | weasl77 | at least the 486's are still working .. |
| 23:43.27 | Cope | no... just the whole process is likely to take ages, whereas if I get some floppies and do a network install, that'll be pretty quick |
| 23:44.51 | murray__ | wonders : with debate about old 486's, etc... |
| 23:45.19 | murray__ | rather than donating hardware to others : keep hardware, install os and run various network services for others instead :) |
| 23:45.42 | murray__ | network = computer and all that |
| 23:48.03 | wethrin | Could work.... |
| 23:48.37 | wethrin | nn all |
| 23:49.06 | weasl77 | as long as bandwidth costs are resonable, possible |
| 23:49.11 | Cope | i appear not to have a /dev/rfd0 |
| 23:49.38 | murray__ | typical user wants to surf and email, so dirt cheap vnc client |
| 23:50.03 | murray__ | with the guts done remotely, always patched and up to date by someone who cares (tm) |
| 23:50.05 | murray__ | :) |
| 23:51.01 | murray__ | or just run bittorrent with various downloads : i've got three distro today via bt |
| 23:51.08 | Cope | :) |
| 23:51.17 | murray__ | damn fast, will need to leave 'em running for a few days to return the karma |
| 23:52.25 | Cope | :) |
