irclog2html for #gllug on 20060319

`01:58.47`	`z00dax`	`arika-chan!`
`02:00.05`	`George`	`hi`
`02:00.08`	`George`	`d00dax`
`02:02.03`	`z00dax`	`heya George`
`02:02.16`	`George`	`:)`
`02:02.21`	`z00dax`	`I just drove from Bexley to Ealing to deliver a CD to someone, then drove back`
`02:03.05`	`George`	`idiot.`
`02:03.05`	`cliveh`	`Blimey long trek`
`02:03.12`	`George`	`that's what the royal mail is for`
`02:03.27`	`cliveh`	`That's a long way`
`02:03.41`	`George`	`I live in a sausage factory`
`02:03.46`	`z00dax`	`cliveh, I am based just down the road from you ... am in bexley`
`02:04.10`	`cliveh`	`Aye zoodax we must be almost neighbours`
`02:04.16`	`z00dax`	`George, unfortunately royal mail dont pickup at 11:00pm on Sat night for deliver pre 5:00am`
`02:04.32`	`George`	`z00dax: why was it so urgent?`
`02:05.09`	`z00dax`	`TheDude flies out to 'merica 5:00am, I need him to carry a bunch of data for me`
`02:05.27`	`cliveh`	`Sounds cool`
`02:05.47`	`z00dax`	`he kept calling me 'john' for some reason...`
`02:05.50`	`George`	`how... odd`
`02:06.07`	`cliveh`	`Never underestimate the bandwith of a 747`
`02:06.22`	`George`	`hahahsa`
`02:34.06`	`LeedsHK`	`morgen, all`
`02:34.32`	`George`	`hi`
`02:34.41`	`z00dax`	`LeedsHK,`
`09:40.45`	`morsing`	`'morning`
`09:56.54`	`morsing`	`LeedsHK!`
`10:06.52`	`morsing`	`Hello?`
`10:15.16`	`morsing`	`ibot wake wethrin`
`10:15.17`	`ibot`	`wethrin: GOOD MORNING!!!`
`10:15.50`	`morsing`	`cliveh: HAve you ever run into Geir there?`
`11:31.44`	`morsing`	`Hello?`
`11:32.01`	`morsing`	`Anybody here?`
`11:45.38`	`z00dax`	`morsing!`
`11:59.36`	`George`	`d00dax!`
`12:01.58`	`z00dax`	`George,`
`12:24.29`	`z00dax`	`new2unix, what ya watching then ?`
`12:24.44`	`LeedsHK`	`morsing, all`
`12:25.41`	`new2unix`	`z00dax: Slevin something or the other. Cant rememeber the name.`
`12:26.41`	`z00dax`	`lucky number sleven ?`
`12:26.48`	`wethrin`	`morning`
`12:26.54`	`z00dax`	`wethrin,!`
`12:27.01`	`LeedsHK`	`evening`
`12:27.09`	`new2unix`	`Yes, that is the one. Has anyone watched it yet. any good?`
`12:27.12`	`wethrin`	`hi`
`12:27.27`	`z00dax`	`new2unix, I did see it , wait for it on DVD`
`12:27.47`	`new2unix`	`z00dax: Oh. :(`
`12:28.22`	`morsing`	`z00dax! LeedsHK!`
`13:03.30`	`George`	`mozrat: I was to blame for what?`
`13:05.29`	`wethrin`	`George: Everything!`
`13:05.43`	`George`	`wethrin: yeah, but at least I'm not going to Oxford`
`13:05.57`	`wethrin`	`Oxfrog > Tabland`
`13:06.11`	`George`	`wethrin<*`
`13:06.38`	`wethrin`	`Go away. I had sossidges for breakfast`
`13:08.35`	`George`	`so rude`
`13:09.16`	`George`	`how on earth did you manage to convince them to fund you for a PhD if you only got a 2.ii?`
`13:09.28`	`wethrin`	`I asked nicely`
`13:09.33`	`George`	`hahah`
`13:10.09`	`wethrin`	`It's true`
`13:10.15`	`wethrin`	`I also did an MSc`
`13:10.29`	`George`	`weirdo!`
`13:10.32`	`wethrin`	`:)`
`13:10.46`	`George`	`that was a conversion course though, wasn't it?`
`13:10.50`	`wethrin`	`Yes`
`13:10.53`	`wethrin`	`so?`
`13:10.55`	`George`	`weirdo!`
`13:10.59`	`wethrin`	`?`
`13:11.04`	`George`	`some of us don't do stupid subjects in the first place`
`13:11.12`	`George`	`that said, I should have applied for Maths :(`
`13:11.19`	`wethrin`	`Ha ha`
`13:11.24`	`z00dax`	`or applied for Applied Maths`
`13:11.24`	`wethrin`	`What did you apply for? CS?`
`13:11.29`	`George`	`yesh`
`13:11.34`	`wethrin`	`You can always change`
`13:11.39`	`George`	`hahaha`
`13:11.42`	`z00dax`	`whats wrong with CS ?`
`13:11.46`	`z00dax`	`not that i did CS`
`13:11.46`	`George`	`I would never have got in for Maths though`
`13:11.51`	`George`	`z00dax: CS < Maths. :P`
`13:11.58`	`wethrin`	`CS is what people do when they're no good at other sciences :-P`
`13:12.02`	`George`	`Maths > *`
`13:12.20`	`z00dax`	`but if you intend to pursue a career in CS - then doing CS might not be a bad thing`
`13:12.27`	`George`	`maths is better`
`13:12.31`	`wethrin`	`Yes, but what career can you get in CS?`
`13:12.38`	`wethrin`	`Other than an academic one`
`13:12.55`	`wethrin`	`And at UCL, a large number of the CS department used to be Physicists`
`13:12.57`	`z00dax`	`wethrin, ask the idiots who made 100k + salaries working for such entities as PWC and CGEY`
`13:13.05`	`wethrin`	`z00dax: That's not a career in CS :)`
`13:13.20`	`George`	`that's software engineering`
`13:13.21`	`George`	`not CS`
`13:13.34`	`wethrin`	`George: More likely it's management bollocks`
`13:13.40`	`George`	`true`
`13:14.13`	`z00dax`	`wethrin, no - talking about the guys doing CS stuff there`
`13:14.27`	`z00dax`	`humm... ok, so whats CS then :)`
`13:14.30`	`wethrin`	`z00dax: Algorithms and suchlike?`
`13:14.43`	`z00dax`	`and that does not include Soft Engg and such ?`
`13:14.54`	`wethrin`	`It may be part of it`
`13:15.01`	`z00dax`	`<-- isnt too familiar with the education process here, so forgive me if i sound sanile`
`13:15.05`	`z00dax`	`humm..`
`13:15.17`	`wethrin`	`However, SE != CS`
`13:15.36`	`z00dax`	`the way i look at it is - IIT grads in India, doing Comp Sci never had to wait past 6th Semester to get Job placements, ( and its an 8 sem course )`
`13:15.58`	`z00dax`	`pretty much every other stream never even started interviews till well into the 7th - sometimes even into the 8th Sem`
`13:16.58`	`wethrin`	`mmm`
`13:18.02`	`z00dax`	`although i suppose it isnt really normal human beings that goto the IIT's`
`13:18.13`	`wethrin`	`yeah`
`13:18.20`	`z00dax`	`s/goto/pass out of/`
`13:48.16`	`George`	`MOO`
`13:48.52`	`z00dax`	`Moooooo`
`13:58.20`	`George`	`hey d00dax`
`14:12.53`	`LeedsHK`	`family dinner Friday night, followed by a couple of St. Paddy's Day drinks... Comedy club on Saturday night, followed by a falafel... Bowling on Sunday afternoon, followed by fish'n'chips...`
`14:16.36`	`LeedsHK`	`good weekend all?`
`14:16.54`	`wethrin`	`Boring, really`
`14:19.03`	`*** part/#gllug cliveh (n=Clive@chills.demon.co.uk)`
`14:52.22`	`George`	`wethrin: flushing loo or mary poppins?`
`14:55.16`	`wethrin`	`George: What?`
`14:55.37`	`George`	`wethrin: what would you rather have, a flushing loo or a ticket to go see mary poppins in the theatre?`
`14:55.54`	`wethrin`	`Depends. What's the alternative to the loo?`
`14:56.05`	`George`	`a ticket to go see mary poppins in the theatre.`
`14:56.07`	`wethrin`	`One whose cistern is broken?`
`14:56.14`	`George`	`no loo at all`
`14:56.25`	`George`	`think army latrine`
`14:56.28`	`wethrin`	`ew`
`14:56.32`	`wethrin`	`My own bog++`
`14:56.37`	`George`	`hahaha`
`14:56.57`	`George`	`ok, I'm having an argument`
`14:57.02`	`George`	`I'm saying that arts are for the weak`
`14:57.14`	`George`	`(and lazy)`
`14:57.19`	`wethrin`	`Not necessarily :)`
`14:57.25`	`George`	`wethrin: bah`
`14:57.30`	`George`	`wethrin: what arts aren't for the weak?`
`14:58.28`	`morsing`	`Check it!`
`14:58.46`	`wethrin`	`Depends. Studying or appreciating?`
`14:59.26`	`morsing`	`Appreciating`
`14:59.42`	`George`	`wethrin: either`
`14:59.53`	`George`	`I APPRECIATE MY TOILET`
`15:00.09`	`wethrin`	`Appreciating is good`
`15:00.26`	`George`	`toilets are better`
`15:05.30`	`George`	`wethrin: does macos x come with wget?`
`15:06.30`	`wethrin`	`George: Can't remember. I have it installed`
`15:06.56`	`wethrin`	`No, it doesn't. It comes with curl`
`15:07.45`	`wethrin`	`I have wget installed via fink`
`15:13.33`	`LeedsHK`	`just listened to the News Quiz tribute to Linda Smith...`
`15:23.30`	`LeedsHK`	`George: I would prefer a toilet...`
`15:23.41`	`LeedsHK`	`but for now, I'm going to bed`
`15:23.44`	`George`	`lol`
`15:23.45`	`George`	`cya`
`17:01.25`	`morsing`	`Hey George`
`17:02.16`	`George`	`hey`
`17:02.37`	`morsing`	`How are you?`
`17:04.45`	`George`	`sausagelike`
`17:07.12`	`JAV`	`hello!`
`17:08.18`	`morsing`	`JAV!`
`18:03.11`	`*** join/#gllug cbz (i=chriseb@vortex.ukshells.co.uk)`
`18:03.18`	`cbz`	`evenink.`
`18:03.40`	`morsing`	`cbz!`
`18:03.53`	`cbz`	`morsing!`
`19:07.31`	`*** join/#gllug Blissex2 (n=Blissex@82-69-39-138.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)`
`19:20.01`	`morsing`	`Blissex2!`
`19:51.46`	`*** join/#gllug Blissex2 (n=Blissex@82-69-39-138.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)`
`19:52.15`	`morsing`	`Blissex2!`
`20:33.53`	`morsing`	`Anyone still awake?`
`20:34.06`	`wethrin`	`No`
`20:35.36`	`cbz`	`Everyone has passed out from the cold and lack of food.`
`20:36.24`	`new2unix`	`ibot seen formi`
`20:36.27`	`ibot`	`formi <n=formi@82-35-232-163.cable.ubr01.camd.blueyonder.co.uk> was last seen on IRC in channel #gllug, 20d 7h 43m 52s ago, saying: 'Leeds: i finally got into gmail, using lynx'.`
`20:36.52`	`morsing`	`Hi new2unix`
`20:37.04`	`new2unix`	`hi morsing`
`20:37.13`	`morsing`	`How's life?`
`20:37.50`	`morsing`	`Mmm...`
`20:38.21`	`new2unix`	`Spanish classical guitar ++`
`20:41.04`	`new2unix`	`The Choirboys' rendition of Tears in Heaven is eerie`
`20:41.12`	`cbz`	`Heh.`
`20:41.16`	`new2unix`	`cbz: really?`
`20:41.19`	`cbz`	`Yes.`
`20:41.37`	`new2unix`	`cbz: are you as good as Oscar Lopez?`
`20:41.58`	`new2unix`	`cbz: i will buy your album if you are.`
`20:42.04`	`cbz`	`Heh`
`20:42.08`	`cbz`	`Unlikely.`
`20:48.25`	`cbz`	`I started classical guitar about then. Maybe 6.`
`20:49.29`	`cbz`	`But I got tendonitis :-)`
`20:54.05`	`new2unix`	`that sounds like it hurt at the time.`
`20:56.18`	`new2unix`	`cbz: Here's Oscar Lopez: http://bsdqed.com/Classical/OscarLopez.mp3`
`20:56.21`	`cbz`	`I got it at 18 - 12 years later.`
`20:59.30`	`cbz`	`Ta.`
`21:02.14`	`*** join/#gllug stephanb2 (n=stef@88-110-224-219.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)`
`21:02.35`	`stephanb2`	`yo`
`21:03.10`	`z00dax`	`stephanb2, yo`
`21:03.22`	`stephanb2`	`z00dax: hey`
`21:03.48`	`z00dax`	`good weekend ?`
`21:04.12`	`stephanb2`	`xlnt. my p2p "box" is ready for my friend`
`21:04.23`	`z00dax`	`nice`
`21:04.28`	`stephanb2`	`ooo that's the voip pbx ?`
`21:04.40`	`z00dax`	`stephanb2, yea`
`21:06.41`	`cbz`	`i tend to listen to stuff thats either classical, or flamenco, not so much hybrid stuff.`
`21:07.49`	`stephanb2`	`as usual with these networky things, i always bang my head against the firewall or hosts.allow`
`21:10.47`	`stephanb2`	`z00dax: oh btw, have u tried firestarter?`
`21:11.14`	`z00dax`	`stephanb2, nope`
`21:11.24`	`z00dax`	`i tend to write my iptables rules mostly by hand`
`21:12.04`	`stephanb2`	`yeah well that's im doing too`
`21:12.05`	`new2unix`	`hi StephanB`
`21:12.23`	`stephanb2`	`although it's not a "solution" for beginners`
`21:12.29`	`stephanb2`	`new2unix: hey long time no see`
`21:12.32`	`z00dax`	`stephanb2, there is another tool that came quite highly recommended... lets see if i can dig it up`
`21:12.57`	`stephanb2`	`z00dax: i think i know, it snniffs your traffic and suggests tables`
`21:13.16`	`stephanb2`	`well actually that's what i do, with netstat`
`21:13.25`	`z00dax`	`http://rocky.molphys.leidenuniv.nl/ <-- stephanb2 thats the one`
`21:13.54`	`stephanb2`	`new2unix: whats up ?`
`21:15.37`	`*** part/#gllug Blissex2 (n=Blissex@82-69-39-138.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)`
`21:19.19`	`new2unix`	`stephanB: How you doing?`
`21:19.52`	`stephanb2`	`z00dax: hmm complicated. not for n00bies either`
`21:20.02`	`cbz`	`heh`
`21:20.50`	`z00dax`	`stephanb2, humm...`
`21:21.54`	`new2unix`	`stephanB: http://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/ is newbie friendly`
`21:23.29`	`stephanb2`	`new2unix: can i run that on linux :-o ???`
`21:24.21`	`new2unix`	`stephanb2: it has been done.`
`21:24.32`	`stephanb2`	`anyway it's a bit of a lost cause, asking for a n00bie friendly firewall`
`21:24.56`	`stephanb2`	`is like asking for a jet airline u can pilot in 5 lessons`
`21:25.08`	`z00dax`	`stephanb2, in most cases, turning off unwanted services is all the firewall a linux machine needs`
`21:25.08`	`stephanb2`	`s/airline/aircraft`
`21:25.20`	`z00dax`	`the whole idea of a user end firewall is much Windoze fluff`
`21:26.05`	`stephanb2`	`well yeah, there is no hosts.allow hosts.deny on Win32`
`21:28.22`	`morsing`	`Check it!`
`21:28.29`	`new2unix`	`stephanb2: not on the firewall that comes with XP SP2 but there are alternatives to hosts.allow etc on third party firewalls for win32`
`21:28.39`	`*** join/#gllug arika-chan (n=Catalyst@jamesmorse.plus.com)`
`21:28.40`	`z00dax`	`but does everything actuall work in compliance with hosts.allow /deny`
`21:29.01`	`George`	`hello arika-chan`
`21:29.45`	`stephanb2`	`z00dax: no, not everything.`
`21:30.06`	`arika-chan`	`hi George`
`21:30.22`	`stephanb2`	`z00dax: but i realise that most of the times i activate a network service, i have to mod both my iptables and hosts.allow`
`21:30.37`	`stephanb2`	`hi arika-chan hi George`
`21:30.48`	`arika-chan`	`hi stephanb2 :)`
`21:31.07`	`stephanb2`	`z00dax: well samba has hosts.allow in the smb.conf`
`21:31.09`	`z00dax`	`George, arika-chan`
`21:31.14`	`arika-chan`	`z00dax!`
`21:31.46`	`z00dax`	`stephanb2, i usually dont run file sharing stuff on machines that need to have network's blocked!`
`21:31.56`	`z00dax`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:33.04`	`stephanb2`	`well 4 the moment my friend runs p2p on a winxp box with this special boot + pcmcia card`
`21:33.14`	`stephanb2`	`that "resets" the system at every boot`
`21:33.36`	`stephanb2`	`i thought i could do better with linux`
`21:33.56`	`stephanb2`	`better as in security + more frugal in resources`
`21:34.09`	`z00dax`	`stephanb2, consider a VM ?`
`21:34.56`	`stephanb2`	`z00dax: hem the idea is that he can run on old hardware`
`21:35.14`	`stephanb2`	`somehow in my mind i think VM = mucho RAM. but mayb im wrong`
`21:35.14`	`z00dax`	`stephanb2, how old ?`
`21:35.30`	`z00dax`	`you loose about 10 -12% system resources with a single VM`
`21:35.38`	`stephanb2`	`his box is a 700MHz PIII + 128MB RAM`
`21:35.48`	`z00dax`	`128mb sounds a bit shallow`
`21:36.04`	`z00dax`	`but a 700mhz p-3 would work ok'ish`
`21:36.17`	`stephanb2`	`i got my system to run happily on a 400Mhz PIII and it's using about 32MB`
`21:36.39`	`z00dax`	`what kernel / glibc ?`
`21:36.43`	`stephanb2`	`fc4 mini install + x11 + fluxbox + samba + gtk-gnutella`
`21:36.54`	`z00dax`	`humm`
`21:37.12`	`z00dax`	`what kernel version`
`21:37.34`	`stephanb2`	`so, he doesnt have to make his hands dirty in xterm, 2.6.11 kernel`
`21:37.56`	`stephanb2`	`the one that ships with fc4 , i didnt upgrade the kernel`
`21:38.00`	`z00dax`	`right`
`21:38.10`	`z00dax`	`i am quite sure the 2.6.15-fc4 wont work with that :)`
`21:38.48`	`stephanb2`	`??? im running a 2.6.15 on a 800MHz PIII`
`21:38.49`	`z00dax`	`on that machine, i love to see the output of rpm -qa`
`21:38.56`	`z00dax`	`how much ram ?`
`21:39.38`	`stephanb2`	`well my test machine has 256MB, but when i look at gkrellm, it uses about 32`
`21:39.57`	`z00dax`	`with 256megs it will run fine`
`21:40.07`	`stephanb2`	`i typed the wrong label on my swap partition and didnt notice for 1 week`
`21:41.32`	`stephanb2`	`z00dax: is the new kernel greedy with ram ???`
`21:41.51`	`stephanb2`	`i thought is was gnome \|\| kde that sucked the ram`
`21:41.54`	`z00dax`	`apps are`
`21:42.15`	`z00dax`	`and the base system, even with very few things running, will take up ram - although large portions of the kernel are module driven`
`21:42.16`	`stephanb2`	`yeah well the biggest app on his box is firefox`
`21:42.28`	`z00dax`	`you wont be able to use yum and friends with 32 megs of ram`
`21:42.44`	`stephanb2`	`it seems that the base system is using about 32MB`
`21:42.44`	`z00dax`	`you are running firefox on a machine that has 32 megs of ram ?`
`21:42.56`	`z00dax`	`or no wait ... hummm`
`21:43.09`	`z00dax`	`well, reduce the ram down to 32megs and then see how things get fun`
`21:43.15`	`stephanb2`	`no, no, my test machine has 256MB, his machine has 128MB`
`21:43.29`	`stephanb2`	`i wouldnt be so bold, but i would try 64MB`
`21:43.42`	`stephanb2`	`can u do that in the kernel parameters at boot ?`
`21:43.47`	`z00dax`	`make sure you have lots of swap and a fast hdd`
`21:43.55`	`stephanb2`	`hahaha :-D`
`21:44.10`	`stephanb2`	`and put a microphone on the hard drive :-)`
`21:46.00`	`z00dax`	`i have an old ibm 600E laptop that has 128megs of ram ... its a p-3 500mhz chip i think.`
`21:46.10`	`z00dax`	`might be worth looking for that sometime...`
`21:46.36`	`stephanb2`	`z00dax: im sure any distro with a light desktop would run.`
`21:46.50`	`stephanb2`	`i put fc1 + xfce on a friends laptop years ago`
`21:46.58`	`stephanb2`	`only open office swaps`
`21:47.01`	`z00dax`	`stephanb2, thinking of using that as the asterisk box to play with`
`21:47.22`	`stephanb2`	`ah yeah, u dont even need a desktop do u ?`
`21:47.51`	`z00dax`	`i was thinking in terms of power requirements as well - that sort of a box would not need much power to run 24/7`
`21:48.22`	`stephanb2`	`hmm however it may not b meant to run 24/7`
`21:48.34`	`stephanb2`	`but it costs u nothing`
`21:48.41`	`z00dax`	`I have a Compaq laptop thats ot 460 days of uptime`
`21:48.52`	`z00dax`	`I've even moved homes during that time and the laptop did not reboot :)`
`21:49.06`	`z00dax`	`having said that, i can imagine its going to burst into flames tonite`
`21:50.17`	`stephanb2`	`i owuld like to play with these mini itx mobos`
`21:50.48`	`z00dax`	`just make sure its not a i586 you end up with, linux support for them is starting to get rather scarce`
`21:51.21`	`stephanb2`	`wot is i586? Pentium One ?`
`21:51.48`	`z00dax`	`and lots of these ITX mobo's - Epic's and whatnot - and the K6's`
`21:52.07`	`George`	`it's also a brand of Apple computers.`
`21:52.17`	`stephanb2`	`anyway we had this chat be4, mini-itx only support VIA chips, some mobile pentiums`
`21:52.46`	`stephanb2`	`George: i586 is a brand of Apple ???`
`21:52.55`	`z00dax`	`i think there are some i686 based ones around these days too`
`21:53.17`	`stephanb2`	`i would buy a mac mini if it didnt use a laptop drive`
`22:19.28`	`stephanb2`	`z00dax: it would run on 64MB as long as you just run the p2p app in X.`
`22:19.53`	`stephanb2`	`z00dax: but firefox on its own will swap`
`22:34.30`	`stephanb2`	`on those words, im off!`
`22:34.35`	`stephanb2`	`cu all l8r`
`22:34.37`	`stephanb2`	`bye!`
`22:34.57`	`z00dax`	`nite`
`22:35.15`	`stephanb2`	`nite nite`
`22:35.19`	`*** part/#gllug stephanb2 (n=stef@88-110-224-219.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)`
`22:40.25`	`*** join/#gllug AndrewBlack (n=chatzill@81.2.66.249)`
`23:25.46`	`cbz`	`nite`
`23:25.48`	`*** part/#gllug cbz (i=chriseb@vortex.ukshells.co.uk)`

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