irclog2html for #gllug on 20060411

`01:16.06`	`*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@202.82.163.139)`
`02:36.52`	`*** join/#gllug ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)`
`02:36.52`	`*** topic/#gllug is Greater London LUG - http://www.gllug.org.uk and http://planet.gllug.org.uk \| Next Event: 18th April - Jono Bacon (OpenAdvantage) and Ted Haeger (Novell) speaking`
`06:02.23`	`*** join/#gllug kuesse_ (n=Gonzo@82-35-9-153.cable.ubr02.hari.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`06:23.52`	`*** join/#gllug SlayerXP (n=mart@194.182.142.6)`
`06:30.57`	`*** join/#gllug SlayerXP (n=mart@194.182.142.6)`
`06:35.23`	`*** join/#gllug SlayerXP (n=mart@194.182.142.6)`
`06:48.46`	`*** join/#gllug AndrewBlack (n=chatzill@81.2.66.249)`
`06:52.07`	`*** join/#gllug SlammerXP (n=mart@194.182.142.6)`
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`06:56.29`	`*** join/#gllug SlammerXP (n=mart@194.182.142.6)`
`07:21.23`	`*** join/#gllug janvb (i=jan@vanbergen.demon.co.uk)`
`07:23.06`	`AndrewBlack`	`Hi - anyone around?`
`07:23.30`	`janvb`	`me`
`07:29.38`	`*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@202.82.163.139)`
`07:40.53`	`mozrat`	`Good morning`
`07:44.39`	`Leeds`	`good afternoon`
`07:44.52`	`mozrat`	`How's it going today?`
`07:47.59`	`Leeds`	`not bad... you?`
`07:48.06`	`mozrat`	`Good enough`
`07:48.26`	`mozrat`	`Jason did a good job in moving the new website to http://gllug.ukfsn.org yesterday`
`07:48.32`	`Leeds`	`things are relatively quiet here... factory is closed for new year, things are starting to wind down for the long weekend`
`07:48.39`	`mozrat`	`hopefully we can make it live sometime this month`
`07:49.09`	`Leeds`	`cool`
`07:59.25`	`AndrewBlack`	`Hi Mozrat`
`07:59.40`	`mozrat`	`hi AndrewBlack, how are you`
`07:59.45`	`mozrat`	`haven't seen you for a little while`
`08:00.01`	`AndrewBlack`	`Thanks for orgnanising the 2 meetings this month. Fraid the tuesday one clashes with a reheasal`
`08:00.12`	`mozrat`	`aw, shame`
`08:00.30`	`mozrat`	`I'm wondering if i should video-tape it`
`08:01.09`	`*** join/#gllug janvb (i=jan@vanbergen.demon.co.uk)`
`08:04.22`	`Leeds`	`did you not know he worked at sistina, or did you not know sistina were bought by RH a while back?`
`08:04.34`	`mozrat`	`No and No`
`08:04.45`	`Leeds`	`incidentally, $380million for jboss???`
`08:05.06`	`murb`	`Leeds: 60% IN Redhat shares..`
`08:05.14`	`Leeds`	`ah... I didn't see that bit`
`08:05.17`	`mozrat`	`yeah, I didn't know RH were that cash rich`
`08:05.23`	`mozrat`	`still a lot of cash`
`08:05.31`	`murb`	`but still $152 million is quite a lot`
`08:05.42`	`mozrat`	`It is`
`08:07.20`	`AndrewBlack`	`video of it would be useful. audio + slides might be good enough.`
`08:07.46`	`mozrat`	`I'll ask the speakers and see if they mind.`
`08:08.03`	`mozrat`	`I think they'll say we have to hang onto it until they finish their speaking tour but that is fair enough`
`08:08.20`	`Leeds`	`mozrat: as the new gllug organiser... one piece of advice... try to get slides whenever possible`
`08:08.48`	`mozrat`	`Leeds: thanks, I will. The Resources page on the site is woefully empty`
`08:09.33`	`murb`	`mozrat: and control of the gllug.org.uk domain..`
`08:09.48`	`Leeds`	`indeed...`
`08:09.51`	`mozrat`	`murb: you mean broken DNS? I don't know what is going on with that`
`08:10.26`	`Leeds`	`mozrat: no... gllug.org.uk is owned by positive internet - they bought it for us, but they still own and control it`
`08:10.29`	`murb`	`mozrat: it would be nice if the ns records pointed to nameservers that members controlled.`
`08:11.07`	`mozrat`	`murb: right, I see`
`08:11.08`	`murb`	`e.g. nameservers belonging to jason, leeds and myself.`
`08:11.39`	`mozrat`	`yeah, I'll tackle that problem after these meetings :)`
`08:11.48`	`Leeds`	`I'm in the middle of some unstable DNS migration at the moment myself`
`08:11.49`	`mozrat`	`Do you both see gllug.org.uk as being broken?`
`08:12.07`	`Leeds`	`mozrat: it's nothing to do with broken-ness - it's just that it's not under 'our' control`
`08:12.25`	`mozrat`	`Leeds: sure. But from work I cannot get to any record apart from the default A record.`
`08:12.35`	`mozrat`	`and this is after clearing all the caches on our work NS servers`
`08:12.45`	`murb`	`mozrat: if and when it breaks we must for someone else to fix it.`
`08:12.49`	`mozrat`	`from home I have no problem - wethrin has a similar issue`
`08:13.35`	`Leeds`	`hmm... www.gllug.org.uk is a cname for www.gllug.ukfsn.org while gllug.org.uk is an A for the IP of www.gllug.ukfsn.org`
`08:14.10`	`mozrat`	`Doesn't Dean Wilson host planet.gllug.org.uk on his own servers`
`08:15.24`	`murb`	`http://www.zonecut.net/dns/ seems to think everything is cool.`
`08:15.40`	`murb`	`atleast withthe gllug zone`
`08:16.36`	`Leeds`	`the point is that gllug.org.uk itself resolves to the address of Jason's machine, and there's a wildcard for *.gllug.org.uk which is a CNAME for Jason's machine - so Jason can setup and control subdomains`
`08:16.54`	`Leeds`	`I know the way the wiki worked was that he was proxying to me - I assume the planet works the same way`
`08:17.23`	`mozrat`	`ah right`
`08:17.40`	`murb`	`which is a bit of a nasty hack because the gllug.org.uk zone couldn't easily be modified.`
`08:17.45`	`mozrat`	`anyway - I can't get to planet, or to www.gllug.org.uk anymore`
`08:18.07`	`murb`	`mozrat: works for me...`
`08:18.51`	`Leeds`	`and me...`
`08:19.38`	`murb`	`Leeds: what is the current gllug member consultancy rate?`
`08:21.40`	`Leeds`	`murb: pick a number, quadruple it`
`08:23.40`	`murb`	`936 CHF / hour then.`
`08:23.51`	`Leeds`	`ibot change 936 chf to hkd`
`08:24.16`	`AndrewBlack`	`ibot change 936 chf to gbp`
`08:26.59`	`mozrat`	`Anyway - I'll add the DNS thing to my list. I don't know why it doesn't work from my work`
`08:27.14`	`mozrat`	`but I tried it from a few customer sites and it didn't work their either`
`08:27.40`	`*** join/#gllug cbz (i=chriseb@vortex.ukshells.co.uk)`
`08:28.35`	`Leeds`	`hmmm... so what about this new carphone whorehouse plan then?`
`08:28.44`	`murb`	`cbz: welcome to the IRC based GLLUG consultancy channel.`
`08:29.45`	`Leeds`	`21 quid a month for unlimited local and national calls, calls to landlines in 28 countries, and 'up to 8Mbit' broadband`
`08:30.27`	`murb`	`is there a "fair use policy"`
`08:30.28`	`Leeds`	`ibot convert 40 gigabits to gigabytes`
`08:30.44`	`Leeds`	`18 month contract, 30 quid connection fee`
`08:31.04`	`murb`	`so if the adsl servers is really crap.`
`08:31.09`	`murb`	`s/servers/service/`
`08:31.10`	`Leeds`	`foreign countries are "Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, New Zealand, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, The Netherlands, and United States"`
`08:31.11`	`murb`	`grrr.`
`08:32.12`	`Leeds`	`http://www.cpwplc.com/cpw/media/press/2006/2006-04-11b/`
`08:32.28`	`murb`	`Leeds: alice dsl in .de offers something like that.`
`08:32.50`	`murb`	`tis an LLU operation, so you get the telephony stuff presented as ISDN.`
`08:32.55`	`murb`	`probably more reliable than VoIP.`
`08:33.05`	`mozrat`	`Leeds, Murb - what do you make of this (sorry to drag conversation back)... http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/lookup.ch?name=planet.gllug.org.uk&type=A`
`08:33.34`	`Leeds`	`mozrat: there is no A record for planet.gllug.org.uk`
`08:33.43`	`Leeds`	`there is a cname for *.gllug.org.uk pointing to Jason`
`08:33.43`	`mozrat`	`http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/lookup.ch?name=planet.gllug.org.uk&type=ALL`
`08:33.51`	`mozrat`	`Doesn't work for CNAME either`
`08:35.01`	`Leeds`	`I'm not sure what the rules are for wildcards, or how they interact with the rules for cnames`
`08:37.02`	`Leeds`	`on the other hand, that's a useful tool - one I could have done with yesterday`
`08:38.46`	`George`	`hi`
`08:39.08`	`George`	`Leeds: stop typing so much, you're not allowed to overtake me in the stats`
`08:39.49`	`mozrat`	`George: We prefer quality over quantity`
`08:40.29`	`George`	`bah`
`08:40.59`	`mozrat`	`And besides, some of us don't have all day to troll on IRC. We have "jobs"`
`08:41.33`	`George`	`jobs?`
`08:41.49`	`mozrat`	`Yes`
`08:41.59`	`George`	`ho ho ho ho ho`
`08:42.59`	`murb`	`Leeds: ok they seem to be returning NXDOMAIN and the cname`
`08:43.41`	`murb`	`as a test i've setup the zone foobar.yuri.org.uk with a * to www.gllug.ukfsn.org and it doesn't show this problem.`
`08:46.17`	`murb`	`seems they are running powerdns :(`
`08:47.14`	`mozrat`	`Anybody running Thunderbird around version 1.0.6 ?`
`08:47.49`	`murb`	`i'm guessing the nxdomain breaks some resolvers.`
`08:47.53`	`murb`	`mozrat: what resolver are you using?`
`08:47.58`	`mozrat`	`murb: Windows 2003 DNS`
`08:48.13`	`murb`	`oh and dig +short @dns0.positive-internet.com chaos txt version.bind`
`08:48.22`	`murb`	`mozrat: do you have a copy of dig to hand?`
`08:48.31`	`mozrat`	`murb: sure`
`08:48.48`	`murb`	`can you try dig @win2000dns any blahblah.foobar.yuri.org.uk`
`08:48.52`	`murb`	`then for blahblah.gllug.org.uk`
`08:49.00`	`mozrat`	`I use Linux on my laptop, but I query my office DNS server which is W2003`
`08:49.23`	`murb`	`mozrat: cool, can you try that?`
`08:49.38`	`murb`	`and wethrin also had this problem?`
`08:50.35`	`mozrat`	`murb: http://pastebin.com/653081`
`08:50.46`	`mozrat`	`wethrin had a problem, not sure if it was identical to mine`
`08:51.46`	`murb`	`mozrat: so the windows dns server passes on the nxdomain which upsets the client.`
`08:51.51`	`rhowe_`	`yay!`
`08:51.55`	`rhowe_`	`IRC @ work, once more`
`08:52.04`	`mozrat`	`woo - hello rhowe`
`08:52.05`	`Leeds`	`rhowe: hey`
`08:52.10`	`murb`	`client sees NXDOMAIN and gives up.`
`08:52.17`	`rhowe`	`morning Leeds`
`08:52.20`	`rhowe`	`murb! Help!`
`08:52.44`	`mozrat`	`murb: so Windows 2003 is the culprit in your opinion?`
`08:53.12`	`murb`	`mozrat: it might bebehaving entirely correctlyu.`
`08:53.20`	`Leeds`	`DNS is nasty`
`08:53.26`	`murb`	`i'll blame powerdns for now for behaving differently from bind.`
`08:53.40`	`murb`	`althoguh it could just be that it is a misconfigured PowerDNS`
`08:53.47`	`murb`	`so not the fault of powerdns.`
`08:53.58`	`murb`	`so i think we really need to blame possative internet as they run the namenservers.`
`08:54.30`	`rhowe`	`murb: Know much about leased lines?`
`08:54.40`	`murb`	`rhowe: a little.`
`08:54.54`	`murb`	`rhowe: that is the problemchen?`
`08:55.08`	`Leeds`	`mozrat: thanks for the pointer to that DNS tool - I've been fighting with some DNS stuff yesterday and today, and it's very helpful`
`08:55.10`	`*** join/#gllug janvb (i=jan@vanbergen.demon.co.uk)`
`08:55.40`	`janvb`	`i hate lotus notes.....`
`08:55.57`	`rhowe`	`murb: Yeah, I was asking around to see if it's possible to use it for the incoming telephone lines too (wasn't thinking of running VoIP over it, but multiplexing the phone lines & data over the same wire)`
`08:56.03`	`rhowe`	`murb: Possible? Expensive? Not worth it?`
`08:56.16`	`Leeds`	`hmm... if a server is actually down, shouldn't a client try another one?`
`08:56.50`	`mozrat`	`janvb: Don't be a hater. Notes is OK`
`08:57.17`	`mozrat`	`Leeds: you're welcome`
`08:57.51`	`murb`	`rhowe: if it is channalised E1 it would be possible.`
`08:58.03`	`murb`	`however channalised E1 cards are expensive.`
`08:58.07`	`murb`	`s/cards/interfaces/`
`08:58.22`	`murb`	`and this is assuming you are presented with an E1 in the first place.`
`08:58.50`	`murb`	`if you have bought a lan extension then not really possible unless you go VoIP.`
`08:58.55`	`murb`	`well VoE anyway.`
`08:59.23`	`rhowe`	`Hm, not sure what they'll be using as of yet. Could be LES10, could be something else (we're asking for 2Mbit/s or so)`
`08:59.38`	`rhowe`	`murb: LES seems quite attractive in that you can change the capping as you go`
`09:01.04`	`murb`	`rhowe: and much cheaper for you to terminate.`
`09:03.07`	`murb`	`rhowe: what kind of telephone / PBX do you have?`
`09:03.22`	`rhowe`	`murb: We don't know yet :)`
`09:03.32`	`rhowe`	`murb: We're thinking of buying a Samsung Officeserv 7200`
`09:03.43`	`rhowe`	`murb: Currently we have an Avaya/SDX index 400`
`09:03.53`	`rhowe`	`(and a 100 in another office)`
`09:05.14`	`rhowe`	`murb: The 7200 will (I'm told) do SIP trunking. The index (I think) will do if you put a particular card in it`
`09:05.22`	`rhowe`	`er, the index'll do H.323, I meant`
`09:05.27`	`*** join/#gllug janvb (i=jan@vanbergen.demon.co.uk)`
`09:05.29`	`rhowe`	`What codecs they support, I'm not sure`
`09:07.54`	`Leeds`	`hmm... correct me if I'm wrong, but 40GB means gigabytes, right?`
`09:08.17`	`Leeds`	`as opposed to gigabits`
`09:09.27`	`murb`	`rhowe: so then a bit of bandwidth management which should be easy since you control each end to garantee voice QOS?`
`09:12.54`	`mozrat`	`Down't pit`
`09:13.17`	`murb`	`blame maggie`
`09:13.18`	`mozrat`	`when I were a lad, we were down't mine at day break`
`09:13.42`	`murb`	`George: you got thrown out of the NUM?`
`09:13.54`	`George`	`murb: ...`
`09:14.03`	`Leeds`	`George: when is/was your birthday?`
`09:14.31`	`Leeds`	`anyone... 40GB is gigabytes or gigabits?`
`09:14.34`	`rhowe`	`murb: We`
`09:14.40`	`mozrat`	`Leeds: I vote bytes`
`09:14.45`	`rhowe`	`murb: Nah, it'd be a leased line to the ISP, not to another office`
`09:14.54`	`rhowe`	`murb: We're merging the two London offices to a new site`
`09:15.02`	`mozrat`	`Leeds: in terms of storage or bandwidth?`
`09:15.15`	`Leeds`	`bandwidth`
`09:15.30`	`mozrat`	`oh, so you mean 40GB/s ?`
`09:15.46`	`Leeds`	`one of carphone whorehouse's sites says 40 gigabits per month, one says 40GB`
`09:16.00`	`mozrat`	`I change my vote to bits then`
`09:17.36`	`Leeds`	`it's not like I'm going to be signing up with them any time soon anyway :-)`
`09:21.05`	`murb`	`rhowe: so you'll have 2 sites for a little while?`
`09:24.29`	`cbz`	`I vote that carphone warehouse doesn't know what they are talking about`
`09:26.40`	`rhowe`	`murb: We'll have 2 sites until they both move to the new site`
`09:27.22`	`Leeds`	`warm in here...`
`09:33.37`	`rhowe`	`murb: This is all for an office we do not (as yet) occupy`
`09:40.06`	`George`	`http://vm.gwright.org.uk/utf8.png`
`09:40.09`	`George`	`utf8 in konsole`
`09:40.14`	`George`	`isn't it beautiful?`
`09:40.15`	`George`	`lol`
`09:40.52`	`mozrat`	`Mm, cool`
`09:41.16`	`mozrat`	`Are people making fun of you in other languages now then?`
`09:41.20`	`George`	`no`
`09:42.07`	`rhowe`	`George: Doesn't look very antialiased`
`09:42.25`	`George`	`rhowe: I disable aa in the terminal`
`09:42.36`	`George`	`rhowe: fast scrolling text makes AA crawl`
`09:43.30`	`rhowe`	`George: Doesn't in Windows :)`
`09:43.53`	`George`	`everything crawls in windows.`
`09:44.42`	`rhowe`	`In fact, antialiased text, and translucency is positively fast in Windows, IME`
`09:44.49`	`rhowe`	`hm, comma abuse`
`09:45.28`	`*** join/#gllug kbsingh (i=kbsingh@cure.hiihaa.org)`
`09:46.17`	`kbsingh`	`hey!`
`09:46.24`	`mozrat`	`hi`
`09:46.28`	`mozrat`	`how are you kbsingh ?`
`09:46.49`	`kbsingh`	`mozrat: not too bad, looks like winter's back :(`
`09:48.05`	`kbsingh`	`mozrat: how are things with you ? get a workaround / settlement for the SPF issue /`
`09:49.30`	`mozrat`	`kbsingh: not been back there yet`
`09:50.27`	`mozrat`	`we told the customer to whitelist us for the moment, didn't hear back`
`10:01.03`	`*** join/#gllug stephanb2 (n=chatzill@64.236.9.165)`
`10:03.10`	`mozrat`	`kbsingh: what is hiihaa.org ?`
`10:07.45`	`stephanb2`	`halal intifada international hijackers anonymous association`
`10:13.06`	`kbsingh`	`stephanb2: :)`
`10:13.17`	`murb`	`mozrat: I've snet a reply to wethrin message to gllugadmin`
`10:13.35`	`murb`	`suggesting that maybe we should change the nameservers for gllug.org.uk`
`10:13.38`	`kbsingh`	`mozrat: its a .fi hosted box, wih lots of drive space`
`10:13.44`	`mozrat`	`murb: thanks for debugging that. I had looked at it more times than I want to admit and couldn't see a problem :)`
`10:14.09`	`mozrat`	`kbsingh: you own the domain?`
`10:15.10`	`kbsingh`	`mozrat: nope, thats one of the other guys`
`10:16.58`	`kbsingh`	`http://jailtime.org/ <-- if anyone is interested - prebuild Xen images`
`10:19.14`	`mozrat`	`http://beerandspeech.org/tmp/KoreanClockLady.mpg <-- Audio only, NSFW - but not really filthy. Poor lady keeps mispronouncing "clock".. listen with headphones`
`10:22.28`	`*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@ipvpn095206.netvigator.com)`
`10:27.53`	`George`	`mozrat: that's not very nice`
`10:28.45`	`mozrat`	`George: not really, no`
`10:40.31`	`George`	`Leeds: my birthday was on the 24th march`
`10:40.46`	`mozrat`	`George: you kept that quiet`
`10:40.49`	`mozrat`	`was that your 18th?`
`10:40.54`	`George`	`yes.`
`10:41.02`	`mozrat`	`you moron - why didn't you tell us?`
`10:41.12`	`mozrat`	`we could have had a good Gllug-Social out of that`
`10:41.18`	`George`	`I did.`
`10:41.26`	`Leeds`	`were you away for it?`
`10:41.27`	`mozrat`	`When?`
`10:41.32`	`George`	`Leeds: about a week beforehand`
`10:41.36`	`mozrat`	`Where?`
`10:41.37`	`George`	`s/Leeds/mozrat/`
`10:41.44`	`George`	`Leeds: yes`
`10:41.49`	`George`	`Leeds: I left for Taiwan on the 23rd`
`10:42.37`	`mozrat`	`Where did you announce it?`
`10:42.41`	`George`	`here.`
`10:44.07`	`mozrat`	`you mentioned it 3 times`
`10:44.17`	`George`	`3 is a lot`
`10:44.23`	`George`	`and there were several days of arguments`
`10:44.27`	`George`	`with kbsingh especially`
`10:44.35`	`George`	`telling me to be social`
`10:44.37`	`mozrat`	`about what?`
`10:44.38`	`George`	`and me telling him to get stuffede`
`10:44.45`	`mozrat`	`Well he was correct then wasn't he!`
`10:44.56`	`George`	`I wasn't in the country.`
`10:45.45`	`mozrat`	`you suck`
`10:45.59`	`Leeds`	`so uou're going to get drunk at the meeting this week?`
`10:46.10`	`Leeds`	`next week...`
`10:46.14`	`George`	`no.`
`10:46.46`	`Leeds`	`I'm sorry - there shouldn't have been a ? on there - it wasn't a question - more a statement, maybe a promise, even a threat`
`10:47.05`	`mozrat`	`Leeds: exactly`
`10:47.27`	`mozrat`	`George: you are an utterly unsociable, unlikeable loser`
`10:47.38`	`mozrat`	`now, please come to the pub on Tuesday and have fun`
`10:48.47`	`George`	`no`
`10:49.30`	`mozrat`	`What did you do to celebrate your 18th then?`
`10:49.36`	`mozrat`	`and what did you get from people?`
`10:49.41`	`George`	`nothing`
`10:49.46`	`George`	`except a thinkpad x40`
`10:50.12`	`George`	`I thought you did`
`10:50.14`	`George`	`in fact`
`10:50.19`	`George`	`I thought everyone did`
`10:50.22`	`George`	`ah well.`
`10:50.27`	`George`	`anyway, can't make it on tuesday`
`10:50.30`	`mozrat`	`what?`
`10:50.31`	`George`	`term starts at 9pm on tuesday`
`10:50.39`	`mozrat`	`Shame`
`10:50.41`	`kbsingh`	`'pm' ?`
`10:50.50`	`George`	`kbsingh: yes.`
`10:50.55`	`kbsingh`	`how can a term start in the 'pm' ?`
`10:51.11`	`mozrat`	`George: can't you skip it?`
`10:51.14`	`kbsingh`	`or do you need to be back @ the arena by 9pm`
`10:51.18`	`George`	`boarding school.`
`10:51.24`	`George`	`mozrat: don't be ridiculous`
`10:51.47`	`mozrat`	`Why is that ridiculous? You would only be 2 hours late for it`
`10:52.02`	`mozrat`	`in fact - it starts at 1900 - you might be back by 2130`
`10:52.07`	`mozrat`	`you are an adult now remember>`
`10:52.09`	`George`	`I don't just go back to school.. I have to take a whole heap of crap there too`
`10:52.18`	`George`	`not excluding three laptops, clothes, and a few other things`
`10:53.36`	`mozrat`	`Bah, I'm pissed off you can't make it.`
`10:54.07`	`George`	`why?`
`10:54.14`	`George`	`this term is going to be hectic`
`10:54.17`	`George`	`I have LOTS of exams.`
`10:54.23`	`mozrat`	`Cos it should be fun.`
`10:54.36`	`George`	`yeah, well, sod off :P`
`10:54.39`	`kbsingh`	`George: we'll get you some nice sausages`
`10:54.44`	`George`	`hah.`
`10:55.03`	`mozrat`	`we have some balloons out here as we launched a new campaign yesterday`
`10:55.11`	`mozrat`	`someone just went under his desk to plug his laptop in`
`10:55.21`	`mozrat`	`and a balloon burst just as he plugged it in`
`10:55.36`	`mozrat`	`he nearly leapt about a foot in the air :)`
`10:55.43`	`George`	`fatty`
`10:56.17`	`mozrat`	`?`
`10:56.24`	`George`	`dunno`
`10:56.25`	`George`	`felt like it`
`10:56.43`	`George`	`time to play civ`
`10:56.46`	`George`	`bye`
`10:57.48`	`mozrat`	`ta-ra-`
`11:24.03`	`George`	`hi`
`11:32.40`	`George`	`eww`
`11:32.44`	`George`	`sandwich.`
`11:32.56`	`mozrat`	`what? You don't eat sandwiches?`
`11:37.32`	`George`	`they don't contain enough crap`
`11:37.42`	`mozrat`	`Subway ones do :)`
`11:53.37`	`rhowe`	`mm, bacon bagel`
`12:21.26`	`stephanb2`	`i now have a few really stupid questions to ask`
`12:22.24`	`stephanb2`	`is there an "acceptable" way to send credit card details by email without expecting the other person to install encryption software`
`12:22.49`	`stephanb2`	`like in an image format? zip file with password? word document with password? pdf?`
`12:23.02`	`George`	`How could a worm drive a car you say? Two on the pedals, two on the wheel, one on the A-Z It could happen!`
`12:23.05`	`George`	`hahaha`
`12:24.18`	`stephanb2`	`or is the really only acceptable way to use PGP`
`12:24.47`	`mozrat`	`George: FOOL`
`12:24.59`	`mozrat`	`stephanb2: maybe verbally would be as/or more secure`
`12:25.21`	`stephanb2`	`mozrat: what i normally do is send a fax`
`12:26.18`	`mozrat`	`stephanb2: in terms of the amount of time the data is "persistant" sending a fax, or verbally seems to be more secure to me`
`12:26.47`	`mozrat`	`sure, someone can sniff the phone line, or overhear but they have to be there at the right time.. sending a PDF means that data can be more easily logged`
`12:27.02`	`stephanb2`	`mozrat: ah because email data "hangs around" on server hard drives for a long time ?`
`12:27.13`	`mozrat`	`stephanb2: purely in my own opinion, yes`
`12:27.45`	`mozrat`	`if you can't secure it with encryption you should minimise the exposure to risk, right?`
`12:28.26`	`stephanb2`	`mozrat: oic. so it's not just a matter of "hiding" the info like u would hide an email address from spammers`
`12:29.26`	`mozrat`	`that is it as well - but what would you consider more secure... uploading a document with confidential info to a webserver for someone to download, or sending it via email?`
`12:29.46`	`mozrat`	`or sending it via email versus saying it down the phone once`
`12:30.10`	`mozrat`	`it is security via obscurity`
`12:30.23`	`mozrat`	`which isn't good on it's own, but it is a valid tactic`
`12:30.49`	`stephanb2`	`i will send a fax. i just read that passwords on word documents are dead simple to crack`
`12:30.52`	`stephanb2`	`i now have an even more stupid question`
`12:31.15`	`stephanb2`	`why is there no encryption automatically included in every email client ?`
`12:31.35`	`mozrat`	`I think the question of standards and also infrastructure`
`12:31.36`	`stephanb2`	`the way an NNTP client knows how to uuencode, yenc, etc...`
`12:31.45`	`mozrat`	`standards- PGP, S/MIME and others`
`12:32.11`	`mozrat`	`infrastructure - you have to know which keys to trust, so you need PKI, CA's or people to trust each others keys manually`
`12:32.32`	`mozrat`	`stephanb2: Do you have GPG or PGP keys?`
`12:32.46`	`stephanb2`	`hmm basically a verisign or thawte or some "reliable" third party ?`
`12:33.21`	`mozrat`	`Yes, those guys are certificate authorities`
`12:33.22`	`stephanb2`	`mozrat: no i only know how to use them to check rpm packages`
`12:33.48`	`mozrat`	`You can choose to trust keys that are ultimately signed by these trusted people`
`12:34.01`	`mozrat`	`but - that is more for x509 certs - not PGP ones`
`12:34.11`	`mozrat`	`stephanb2: they are easy to generate and use`
`12:35.44`	`stephanb2`	`mozrat: yes but i cannot tell a hotel in estonia or even less my bank in france to use PGP to read my emails`
`12:35.50`	`mozrat`	`stephanb2: no, of course`
`12:36.31`	`mozrat`	`maybe one day though :)`
`12:37.22`	`mozrat`	`Mmmm, that was a tasty (free) sandwich`
`12:40.55`	`wethrin`	`hello`
`12:40.59`	`mozrat`	`hey wethrin`
`12:41.12`	`wethrin`	`How do?`
`12:41.19`	`mozrat`	`do good`
`12:41.22`	`mozrat`	`stomach full`
`12:41.37`	`wethrin`	`good good`
`12:41.41`	`stephanb2`	`so, who here has been using allofmp3.com ?`
`12:42.07`	`George`	`argh it's wethrin`
`12:43.13`	`wethrin`	`ha`
`12:43.42`	`mozrat`	`stephanb2: nope`
`12:44.16`	`mozrat`	`in fact my iPod hasn't played music in ages - I'm on a podcast binge`
`12:48.34`	`mozrat`	`ibot lart Americans`
`12:49.05`	`mozrat`	`Not only do they get 24 series 5 episode 16 before the rest of us, they don't put it on bit torrent properly`
`12:49.32`	`George`	`mozrat: you have an iPod?`
`12:50.10`	`mozrat`	`yeah, had one for a while. If I was buying a mp3 player now I wouldn't choose an iPod`
`12:56.57`	`mozrat`	`ibot seen mikejw`
`12:57.04`	`ibot`	`mikejw <n=mikejw@81-179-90-63.dsl.pipex.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #gllug, 10d 1h 20m 22s ago, saying: '*responding'.`
`12:57.45`	`mozrat`	`Anyone got any photos online of past GLLUG meetings?`
`12:59.13`	`murb`	`probably.`
`12:59.59`	`cbz`	`Not everyone wants photos of them on the web.`
`13:00.07`	`cbz`	`themselves`
`13:00.21`	`mozrat`	`cbz: that's fair enough`
`13:41.47`	`*** join/#gllug IAmAI (i=hidden-u@213.52.206.3)`
`13:44.07`	`mozrat`	`Hi IAmAI`
`13:44.14`	`IAmAI`	`Hello.`
`13:44.15`	`mozrat`	`haven't seen you here for a while`
`13:49.39`	`JAV`	`aftenoon`
`13:51.58`	`wethrin`	`Hmm. Of all the people on the ircphoto page, only myself (with an old nickname) and Leeds are regular IRCers here`
`13:52.34`	`George`	`wethrin: which ircphoto?`
`13:52.53`	`wethrin`	`www.gllug.org.uk/ircphoto.html`
`13:53.06`	`George`	`that one.`
`13:53.16`	`George`	`that's only because you and Leeds don't have a life`
`13:53.28`	`mozrat`	`Jenson`
`13:53.51`	`mozrat`	`I wonder what she is up to`
`13:53.58`	`George`	`who's Jenson?`
`13:54.05`	`wethrin`	`Surely "who she is up"? :)`
`13:54.22`	`George`	`and who the hell allowed a girl in here?`
`13:54.40`	`wethrin`	`George: We're an equal opportunities IRC channel`
`13:54.53`	`George`	`liar`
`13:56.17`	`George`	`wethrin: you're not equal opportunities to Georges`
`13:56.26`	`George`	`mozrat: boudiccas and puckman are female?`
`13:56.39`	`mozrat`	`well done Sherlock`
`13:56.47`	`George`	`mozrat's a horse`
`13:57.17`	`wethrin`	`Who's puckman IRL?`
`13:57.23`	`George`	`I need more hair.`
`13:57.29`	`wethrin`	`I need less hair`
`13:57.33`	`wethrin`	`And soon I shall have it!`
`13:58.05`	`wethrin`	`To a milspec?`
`13:58.10`	`mozrat`	`yep :)`
`13:58.16`	`wethrin`	`YARR!`
`13:58.18`	`mozrat`	`Number 2 and Number 3`
`13:58.22`	`wethrin`	`Do you still have a beard?`
`13:58.25`	`wethrin`	`Bah. Long-haired hippy!`
`13:58.29`	`mozrat`	`Yep :)`
`13:58.32`	`mozrat`	`Number 99`
`13:58.38`	`wethrin`	`heh`
`13:58.42`	`George`	`hair rocks`
`13:58.45`	`mozrat`	`I cut it back on new years day and haven't touched it since`
`13:59.01`	`mozrat`	`Generally or just about the beard??`
`13:59.13`	`George`	`wethrin: wtf do you need a hat for?`
`13:59.51`	`wethrin`	`George: To wear. Duh.`
`14:00.06`	`wethrin`	`mozrat: Don't trust a man with a beard`
`14:00.16`	`wethrin`	`Also, really don't trust a woman with a beard`
`14:00.33`	`mozrat`	`wethrin: you had an impressive fuzz last time I saw you`
`14:00.34`	`George`	`why not?`
`14:00.36`	`George`	`that's sexist`
`14:00.48`	`wethrin`	`mozrat: That was a long time ago`
`14:01.44`	`mozrat`	`wethrin: it was actually`
`14:02.16`	`IAmAI`	`Hi, peeps. I've been lazy and not logging in.`
`14:02.19`	`wethrin`	`Yeah. You're not often enough at Friday boozeups`
`14:02.24`	`wethrin`	`Even George has been to one!`
`14:02.56`	`mozrat`	`wethrin: My secret shame is noted`
`14:03.07`	`mozrat`	`if George has been to more than I have that is very serious`
`14:03.11`	`mozrat`	`IAmAI: hi :)`
`14:03.15`	`wethrin`	`I think you've been to one each`
`14:03.31`	`IAmAI`	`Anyone here good with MySQL?`
`14:05.22`	`mozrat`	`Depends what the question is probably :)`
`14:06.19`	`IAmAI`	`I wish to create a table of list of first names and the gender of the name.`
`14:06.42`	`IAmAI`	`If say the column 'name' was a VARCHAR, can I make that an index and a key?`
`14:07.07`	`IAmAI`	`Is that a good idea, or should I use a seperate column such as an id as an INT?`
`14:07.24`	`mozrat`	`I don't think name is a very good index`
`14:07.32`	`wethrin`	`If it's an index, it'd need to be unique`
`14:07.39`	`mozrat`	`email address would be better`
`14:07.44`	`wethrin`	`And names aren't unique`
`14:07.47`	`IAmAI`	`Nah, it isn't a list of individuals.`
`14:07.54`	`IAmAI`	`It's list of names.`
`14:07.56`	`mozrat`	`but you would still have to do some checking in the application before trying to stuff itin there`
`14:08.04`	`mozrat`	`ah`
`14:08.09`	`mozrat`	`no, use an id field`
`14:08.12`	`wethrin`	`The usual way is to have an ID field that's automatically incremented`
`14:08.21`	`mozrat`	`you can index it, but don't use it as a key`
`14:08.22`	`IAmAI`	`OK.`
`14:08.42`	`mozrat`	`so how are you going to store the names? comma delimited?`
`14:08.50`	`IAmAI`	`As a mysql table.`
`14:09.06`	`mozrat`	`you are going to have a single field with a long list of boys names in?`
`14:09.19`	`IAmAI`	`This is what I have so far: http://pastebin.com/653516`
`14:09.52`	`mozrat`	`so one name per database row?`
`14:10.04`	`IAmAI`	`Yeah.`
`14:10.07`	`mozrat`	`cool`
`14:10.44`	`IAmAI`	`Does 'cool' mean I had it right the first time? :P`
`14:11.35`	`mozrat`	`I think so!`
`14:11.50`	`IAmAI`	`Awesome.`
`14:11.55`	`mozrat`	`You made it sound a little like one database row would contain a list of names`
`14:12.01`	`mozrat`	`which sounded a little weird`
`14:12.11`	`IAmAI`	`Sounds wierd to me too! :P`
`14:12.11`	`mozrat`	`but you're not doing that`
`14:12.16`	`IAmAI`	`Nope.`
`14:14.34`	`cbz`	`Gah, CamelCapsHurtsTheEyes`
`14:15.33`	`IAmAI`	`My other question is I'm writing a script that creates the database and tables...`
`14:16.03`	`IAmAI`	`I want to only create the tables if the database is created.`
`14:16.12`	`IAmAI`	`I found this: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/if-statement.html`
`14:16.40`	`wethrin`	`mozrat: Here's your chance to make up for your lack of pub attendance :)`
`14:17.05`	`IAmAI`	`But I couldn't figure out how to make a condition that says 'if the database suchandsuch exists then...'`
`14:17.11`	`cbz`	`urmf`
`14:19.04`	`wethrin`	`mozrat: Beer at the Maple Leaf tomorrow?`
`14:19.25`	`mozrat`	`YOU ARE ON`
`14:19.31`	`wethrin`	`Raarrr!`
`14:19.36`	`wethrin`	`morsing will be there`
`14:19.54`	`mozrat`	`Is he driving his unfeasibly large American car?`
`14:20.05`	`wethrin`	`It's a Volvo!`
`14:20.16`	`mozrat`	`wha?`
`14:20.25`	`mozrat`	`he bought some massive American muscle car`
`14:20.29`	`mozrat`	`ibot wake morsing`
`14:20.30`	`ibot`	`morsing: GOOD MORNING!!!`
`14:20.30`	`kbsingh`	`didnt he buy a Comaro ?`
`14:20.31`	`wethrin`	`Did he?`
`14:20.38`	`wethrin`	`he's probably at work. He just phoned me`
`14:23.28`	`Leeds`	`blah`
`14:23.51`	`wethrin`	`LEEEEDS!`
`14:24.04`	`Leeds`	`aka hello all, how is your Tuesday?`
`14:24.11`	`wethrin`	`It's wet`
`14:24.22`	`kbsingh`	`very`
`14:24.34`	`wethrin`	`Dog is therefore underwalked`
`14:24.46`	`kbsingh`	`the last bits of snow finally melting ..`
`14:25.38`	`murb`	`wethrin: didn't fnord buy volvo cars?`
`14:26.51`	`wethrin`	`murb: I don't know`
`14:28.20`	`Leeds`	`ha ha snow`
`14:29.09`	`IAmAI`	`I should be able to make the pub tomorrow.`
`14:29.51`	`Leeds`	`at 10pm, the hong kong observatory (met office) was showing a temperature of 27C`
`14:30.23`	`murb`	`Leeds: and now you have snow???`
`14:30.34`	`Leeds`	`murb: not so much, no`
`14:30.50`	`George`	`mmm, nice pizza`
`14:32.40`	`Leeds`	`mozrat: check your clock`
`14:33.33`	`mozrat`	`Hmm, you are right`
`14:34.28`	`Leeds`	`it's a bit bloody obvious when you reply to wethrin 10 minutes before his mail :-)`
`14:34.41`	`mozrat`	`I knew he was going to call a beer meeting`
`14:35.33`	`Leeds`	`you knew the exact text of his message?`
`14:36.37`	`wethrin`	`:-)`
`14:37.51`	`mozrat`	`Ummm...`
`14:37.55`	`mozrat`	`no :(`
`14:40.22`	`George`	`hahaha beer`
`14:40.57`	`wethrin`	`Beer++`
`14:41.04`	`wethrin`	`Sleeman's beer++++`
`14:41.18`	`George`	`hahaha pub meet tomorrow?`
`14:41.23`	`wethrin`	`Yes`
`14:41.26`	`wethrin`	`You coming?`
`14:41.31`	`Leeds`	`George: you'll be there, drinking heavily, right?`
`14:41.33`	`George`	`don't be ridiculous`
`14:41.35`	`wethrin`	`Can you beat mozrat's attendance record? :)`
`14:41.47`	`IAmAI`	`If I come to the pub on Wednesday, will you guys be easy to find?`
`14:42.10`	`George`	`no`
`14:42.22`	`George`	`we blend with the surroundings`
`14:42.26`	`George`	`we're like chameleons`
`14:42.31`	`George`	`because we use SUSE`
`14:42.40`	`kbsingh`	`the Sun box finally came in today`
`14:42.42`	`wethrin`	`IAmAI: I suspect so`
`14:42.50`	`Leeds`	`kbsingh: woo`
`14:42.56`	`wethrin`	`IAmAI: Spot the geek t-shirts :)`
`14:43.01`	`IAmAI`	`LOL`
`14:43.04`	`IAmAI`	`I'm not sure which of you I've met in reality.`
`14:43.13`	`mozrat`	`me!`
`14:43.13`	`Leeds`	`someone just give IAmAI a mobile number to call for fsck's sake`
`14:43.16`	`wethrin`	`Not me`
`14:43.17`	`mozrat`	`very very briefly`
`14:43.19`	`wethrin`	`07973 623883`
`14:43.21`	`IAmAI`	`LOL`
`14:43.25`	`mozrat`	`IAmAI: 07899 942083`
`14:43.27`	`wethrin`	`Leeds: Happy now? :)`
`14:43.44`	`Leeds`	`yes. ecstatic.`
`14:43.48`	`wethrin`	`woo`
`14:43.54`	`IAmAI`	`Thanks guys.`
`14:43.57`	`George`	`IAmAI: 666`
`14:44.00`	`kbsingh`	`humm.. pub meet... where ?`
`14:44.05`	`wethrin`	`kbsingh: RTFML :)`
`14:44.19`	`wethrin`	`Maple Leaf, Covent Garden, tomorrow, 6pm`
`14:44.33`	`kbsingh`	`there is a mailing list ?`
`14:44.36`	`kbsingh`	`:)`
`14:44.39`	`wethrin`	`There are many`
`14:45.00`	`wethrin`	`And you're on it, because you've posted`
`14:45.01`	`kbsingh`	`hum.... ok, count me in. I'll be there by 6:30`
`14:45.05`	`kbsingh`	`oh that list.`
`14:45.07`	`IAmAI`	`George: Nice number. Wish my number was that short ;)`
`14:45.32`	`wethrin`	`Yes`
`14:45.37`	`wethrin`	`That list :)`
`14:45.43`	`wethrin`	`kbsingh: Hurrah!`
`14:46.07`	`IAmAI`	`Mozrat, I just sent you a message by mistake.`
`14:46.15`	`mozrat`	`IAmAI: I got it :)`
`14:46.22`	`IAmAI`	`I thought I was adding a contact when I was actually writting a message.`
`14:46.25`	`mozrat`	`the system works!`
`14:46.27`	`IAmAI`	`Well, you have my number now.`
`14:46.51`	`mozrat`	`George: Why do you have your number tattooed behind your ear though??`
`14:47.47`	`boudiccas`	`i thought it was across his forehead!`
`14:48.35`	`George`	`mozrat: wtf?`
`14:48.43`	`George`	`if I come to the pub tomorrow my laptop comes with me.`
`14:49.00`	`wethrin`	`That's fine. Just don't use it`
`14:49.06`	`boudiccas`	`George; your portable brain?`
`14:49.13`	`George`	`wethrin: why the hell not?`
`14:49.28`	`wethrin`	`George: Because you're in a PUB! A social environment`
`14:50.03`	`George`	`IRC IS A SOCIAL ENVIRONMENT`
`14:50.19`	`boudiccas`	`nah, too much swearing`
`14:50.24`	`wethrin`	`No, it's a poor substitute`
`14:50.40`	`boudiccas`	`you can't see the facial expression`
`14:50.47`	`wethrin`	`:-)`
`14:51.47`	`boudiccas`	`emoticons are not sufficiently graphic enough to emulate the range of emtions on a human face`
`14:51.55`	`boudiccas`	`*eomtions`
`14:51.59`	`boudiccas`	`*emotions`
`14:52.14`	`boudiccas`	`why doesn't xchat come with a spell checker? :(`
`14:55.11`	`*** part/#gllug janvb (i=jan@vanbergen.demon.co.uk)`
`14:55.22`	`mozrat`	`See, from that last sentence I can tell you are sad. Your argument is flawed`
`14:56.16`	`mozrat`	`George: Have you not seen "The Omen"?`
`14:56.35`	`Leeds`	`mozrat: no chance - he's far too young...`
`14:57.18`	`mozrat`	`Leeds: Ghostbusters was on E4 last night - I wonder if he has seen that`
`14:57.32`	`George`	`no`
`14:57.44`	`Leeds`	`to be fair, I'm too young to have seen it either`
`15:02.50`	`mozrat`	`which?`
`15:02.57`	`mozrat`	`The Omen? no way`
`15:04.52`	`Leeds`	`yup`
`15:05.29`	`Leeds`	`imdb dates it at 1976...`
`15:10.26`	`mozrat`	`good film though`
`15:12.14`	`mozrat`	`boudiccas: pub tomorrow?`
`15:21.24`	`boudiccas`	`fraid not, too far to travel`
`15:21.29`	`mozrat`	`Shame`
`15:21.42`	`mozrat`	`Do you work locally?`
`15:21.50`	`mozrat`	`to where you live, I mean`
`15:21.55`	`boudiccas`	`it would only be worth it if I had some other reason to come up to the smoke`
`15:22.06`	`boudiccas`	`mozrat; i'm retired`
`15:22.24`	`mozrat`	`boudiccas: right.`
`15:22.48`	`mozrat`	`cbz: Good man - I need to do that again sometime`
`15:22.57`	`mozrat`	`My local place doesn't seem to do it anymore`
`15:23.07`	`cbz`	`mozrat: the blood trailer comes into company carpark - so the laziness factor is removed`
`15:23.15`	`mozrat`	`cbz: thats good`
`15:23.42`	`mozrat`	`Giving blood is painless - just a little prick.`
`15:23.42`	`boudiccas`	`blood trailer sound like a mini-dracula film :)`
`15:23.49`	`mozrat`	`George: ==========^`
`15:23.53`	`cbz`	`heh heh`
`15:24.18`	`boudiccas`	`dracula was a phlebotomist`
`15:24.46`	`George`	`mozrat: ?`
`15:36.50`	`stephanb2`	`gotta go soon`
`15:36.54`	`stephanb2`	`bye everybody`
`15:37.00`	`*** part/#gllug stephanb2 (n=chatzill@64.236.9.165)`
`15:44.38`	`rhowe`	`ibot change 8595 usd to gbp`
`15:45.05`	`rhowe`	`ibot 4926.93 * 1.175`
`15:45.06`	`ibot`	`5789.142750000001`
`15:45.19`	`rhowe`	`ibot 578914/11000`
`15:45.21`	`ibot`	`52.628545454545`
`15:45.29`	`rhowe`	`hm, nice profit margin`
`16:13.44`	`George`	`heh`
`16:17.51`	`Leeds`	`sleep time - night all`
`16:18.46`	`kbsingh`	`Leeds: bye`
`16:26.50`	`George`	`mozrat's overtaken Leeds!`
`16:27.43`	`mozrat`	`yay!!`
`16:27.51`	`mozrat`	`quick lets talk loads whilst he is sleeping`
`16:27.56`	`George`	`that said, mozrat and Leeds are ahead of me`
`16:28.03`	`George`	`for number of words spoken`
`16:28.10`	`George`	`because I have relatively short sentences :(`
`16:28.39`	`George`	`mozrat: anyway`
`16:28.58`	`George`	`mozrat: if I come to the pub tomorrow, I'm bringing my oh-so-new ThinkPad X40. Because I love it.`
`16:29.59`	`mozrat`	`Cool`
`16:30.13`	`George`	`mozrat: so there.`
`16:30.15`	`mozrat`	`I wouldn't..`
`16:30.16`	`mozrat`	`but cool`
`16:30.20`	`George`	`mozrat: why wouldn't you? :P`
`16:30.23`	`mozrat`	`maybe you'll get drunk and leave it there`
`16:30.31`	`George`	`I don't drink C2H5OH`
`16:30.32`	`mozrat`	`because it would get beer split on it, or I would lose it`
`16:30.50`	`George`	`we all had laptops in the cafe meet in Taipei`
`16:30.53`	`George`	`ALL of us`
`16:31.36`	`George`	`the majority seemed to have ThinkPad X32s`
`16:31.40`	`George`	`I was the only X40 :)`
`16:32.31`	`IAmAI`	`See ya guys`
`16:32.53`	`mozrat`	`Was that meet a day meeting in a cafe or evening with alcohol ?`
`16:32.59`	`George`	`evening`
`16:33.01`	`George`	`with food`
`16:33.02`	`George`	`no alcohol`
`16:33.08`	`George`	`started at 7pm`
`16:33.10`	`George`	`finished at 11pm`
`16:35.41`	`mozrat`	`it's a bit too geeky really`
`16:36.24`	`George`	`WE'RE GEEKS`
`16:36.49`	`mozrat`	`There are shades of geekiness - and sitting in a cafe IRCing each other is a bit OTT`
`16:37.00`	`murb`	`anyone know how get can get a list of directors of a uk ltd for hmm legal purposes (if post to their registered address bounces?)`
`16:37.17`	`gregj`	`George: yes we are, and you are ?`
`16:37.21`	`mozrat`	`Companies House?`
`16:37.23`	`kbsingh`	`i suppose sitting in a presentation, chatting over irc is ok ? one with a laptop, another with a phone and a third witha bberry`
`16:37.40`	`mozrat`	`http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/`
`16:37.45`	`mozrat`	`kbsingh: shutit`
`16:37.59`	`cbz`	`Are you two in a presentation?`
`16:38.26`	`*** join/#gllug zion01 (n=celso@cpc1-seve3-4-0-cust35.popl.cable.ntl.com)`
`16:38.55`	`*** part/#gllug zion01 (n=celso@cpc1-seve3-4-0-cust35.popl.cable.ntl.com)`
`16:39.12`	`mozrat`	`cbz: George kbsingh and I were once`
`16:39.20`	`mozrat`	`the LiVES presentation at GLLUG`
`16:39.27`	`George`	`hahahahaha`
`16:39.49`	`murb`	`mozrat: does that tell you who the directors are?`
`16:39.55`	`*** join/#gllug MrBrown0101 (n=celso@cpc1-seve3-4-0-cust35.popl.cable.ntl.com)`
`16:40.23`	`kbsingh`	`off home now...`
`16:42.33`	`mozrat`	`murb: I think so`
`16:42.37`	`mozrat`	`hi MrBrown0101`
`16:42.57`	`MrBrown0101`	`hey mozrat !`
`16:43.02`	`MrBrown0101`	`how are u?`
`16:43.39`	`mozrat`	`murb: http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/WebCHeck/findinfopage/`
`16:43.49`	`mozrat`	`MrBrown0101: Not too shabby thanks :)`
`16:45.17`	`MrBrown0101`	`:P`
`16:45.27`	`MrBrown0101`	`does anyone uses gentoo here?`
`16:46.33`	`murb`	`mozrat: it costs..`
`16:50.25`	`mozrat`	`murb: Sorry. didn't realise`
`16:50.33`	`mozrat`	`ibot: wake George`
`16:50.34`	`ibot`	`George: GOOD MORNING!!!`
`16:50.42`	`mozrat`	`MrBrown0101: Catching George would be your best bet`
`16:50.43`	`murb`	`mozrat: i just suspect the information i will get back won't be useful.`
`16:51.04`	`mozrat`	`Does anyone have kbsinghs mobile?`
`16:51.15`	`murb`	`GCHQ?`
`16:51.19`	`MrBrown0101`	`thanx mozrat! whats your distro?`
`16:51.40`	`George`	`?`
`16:52.00`	`George`	`I just got a phone call from some random person asking for a "Ping"`
`16:52.06`	`George`	`whoever tf "ping" is`
`16:52.54`	`MrBrown0101`	`hey George do u use Gentoo?`
`16:53.03`	`George`	`apparently`
`16:54.17`	`MrBrown0101`	`just that Im on suse now... BUt im thinking on a chenge to gentoo`
`16:54.23`	`MrBrown0101`	`how is it?`
`16:54.37`	`MrBrown0101`	`is it a good think to wear?`
`16:54.40`	`George`	`you need to know what you're doing`
`16:55.06`	`George`	`there is no installer`
`16:55.27`	`MrBrown0101`	`no??`
`16:55.34`	`MrBrown0101`	`I heard there is an installer`
`16:55.38`	`MrBrown0101`	`on`
`16:55.41`	`MrBrown0101`	`2006 version`
`16:56.12`	`mozrat`	`murb: heh`
`16:56.24`	`George`	`oh, there is.`
`16:56.28`	`George`	`I've never used it though`
`16:56.35`	`George`	`I tend to stick to the command line`
`16:56.38`	`mozrat`	`Gentoo is on the front cover of Linux Format if you are interested`
`16:57.03`	`mozrat`	`Time for me to go homeski - MrBrown0101... speak to you again sometime. i.e. come back!`
`16:57.05`	`MrBrown0101`	`yeah... I have that in front of me now`
`16:57.38`	`MrBrown0101`	`I better leave it`
`16:57.45`	`MrBrown0101`	`and stick to suse...`
`17:02.01`	`George`	`that said, I've found Gentoo to be a hell of a lot more responsive than just about any other distro`
`17:02.11`	`George`	`naysayers say what you please, this is what I've found`
`17:04.02`	`MrBrown0101`	`yep...every gentoo user says that, I'll give it a try as soon as I finish this easter VB project im doing...`
`17:05.25`	`MrBrown0101`	`I've tryed it once but I ended up deleting my window$ partition hehehe`
`17:05.30`	`skugg`	`be that as it may, I'll trade a little more responsiveness for not having to compile anything any day.`
`17:05.31`	`MrBrown0101`	`seems funny now`
`17:05.31`	`George`	`yes, but most gentoo users are idiots`
`17:05.48`	`George`	`skugg: everybody has different priorities`
`17:06.05`	`skugg`	`of course, you have to add the $MANY_HOURS you spent compiling to the average responsiveness. it takes some time to make up for that.`
`17:06.16`	`George`	`skugg: yes, but I compile whilst I'm asleep`
`17:06.25`	`George`	`skugg: so that doesn't come into play`
`17:06.37`	`MrBrown0101`	`hehehe`
`17:06.47`	`MrBrown0101`	`skugg: whats your distro?`
`17:06.52`	`skugg`	`MrBrown0101: osx ;)`
`17:06.59`	`MrBrown0101`	`ohhh`
`17:07.01`	`MrBrown0101`	`hehehe`
`17:07.06`	`George`	`ewww`
`17:07.15`	`George`	`os x is the biggest pile of CRAP I've ever used.`
`17:07.21`	`MrBrown0101`	`I'll emulate that on vmware sooner or later`
`17:07.23`	`MrBrown0101`	`heheheh`
`17:07.31`	`skugg`	`George: that only works if you have several machines and/or don't need your computer right now`
`17:07.54`	`skugg`	`George: tell it to someone who cares.`
`17:08.04`	`MrBrown0101`	`camon george...its not that bad although you dont have much room to learn on OS X`
`17:08.30`	`skugg`	`os x is great for me. i don't have to fuck around with teh system, it just works. so I can do my own thing.`
`17:08.41`	`MrBrown0101`	`anyway its all about priorities...`
`17:08.46`	`skugg`	`MrBrown0101: that's where you're wrong.`
`17:09.07`	`skugg`	`MrBrown0101: because you don't have to faff around trying to make the system work, you have much more time to learn`
`17:10.22`	`George`	`skugg: I have 3? :P`
`17:10.37`	`skugg`	`i have none.`
`17:10.40`	`skugg`	`i don't own a computer.`
`17:10.43`	`skugg`	`:)`
`17:10.45`	`George`	`skugg: perhaps if you faff around trying to get the system to work you learn during the process?`
`17:10.46`	`skugg`	`I win :)`
`17:11.19`	`MrBrown0101`	`skugg: u win(dows)`
`17:11.20`	`skugg`	`George: you will learn what you had to do to make that work. if that's not really what you wanted to spend time on learning, it's wasted.`
`17:11.24`	`skugg`	`different priorities.`
`17:11.47`	`skugg`	`i have a company powerbook though`
`17:11.50`	`George`	`ergh`
`17:11.52`	`George`	`powerbooks suck`
`17:12.10`	`skugg`	`all computers suck. powerbooks just suck less, to paraphrase ME`
`17:12.16`	`George`	`no they don't`
`17:12.23`	`George`	`the quality control on the powerbooks is pathetic`
`17:12.38`	`MrBrown0101`	`and u pay alot more`
`17:12.43`	`MrBrown0101`	`:P`
`17:12.44`	`skugg`	`i don't pay anything.`
`17:12.49`	`MrBrown0101`	`for no control`
`17:12.53`	`skugg`	`company powerbook, see? :)`
`17:13.25`	`MrBrown0101`	`yeah...u are behind a company...`
`17:14.33`	`skugg`	`i get to use a nice shiny powerbook when it works, and when it doesn't i give it to the sysadmins and say "gimme another"`
`17:15.02`	`murb`	`skugg: service!`
`17:16.04`	`skugg`	`murb: indeed. i don't see a problem with it.`
`17:16.17`	`skugg`	`so, powerbook build quality is not affecting me so much :)`
`17:16.50`	`skugg`	`they're a bit heavy though. could be lighter.`
`17:17.03`	`skugg`	`oh well, get to exercise those thighs...`
`17:18.44`	`skugg`	`oh well, off to the pub`
`17:57.10`	`mozrat`	`.mmm, pub`
`18:19.48`	`*** part/#gllug cbz (i=chriseb@vortex.ukshells.co.uk)`
`18:22.10`	`wethrin`	`Powerbooks++`
`18:22.19`	`wethrin`	`Specifically, TiBook++`
`18:23.09`	`George`	`the tibook sucked`
`18:23.14`	`George`	`the albook sucked slightly less`
`18:24.46`	`wethrin`	`rubbish`
`18:26.09`	`morsing`	`Basically saying:`
`18:26.16`	`morsing`	`Dear Morsing Member,`
`18:26.21`	`morsing`	`We have temporarily suspended your email account morsing@morsing.cc.`
`18:26.30`	`morsing`	`Ending:`
`18:26.31`	`wethrin`	`I got those some months back`
`18:26.32`	`morsing`	`Sincerely,The Morsing Support Team`
`18:26.49`	`morsing`	`<PROTECTED>`
`18:27.01`	`morsing`	`Am I supposed to have suspended my own account?`
`18:27.04`	`wethrin`	`Yes!`
`18:27.21`	`morsing`	`wethrin: What happened to your hair?`
`18:27.28`	`wethrin`	`It got cut off`
`18:27.37`	`morsing`	`All of it?`
`18:29.41`	`wethrin`	`Pretty much`
`18:29.58`	`wethrin`	`There's a bit left`
`18:30.03`	`morsing`	`Nice`
`18:30.10`	`morsing`	`What about your beard?`
`18:30.12`	`wethrin`	`But it means it'll be some time before I next have to cut`
`18:30.21`	`wethrin`	`That's been unshaved for a few days`
`18:30.26`	`wethrin`	`Since Saturday evening`
`18:56.23`	`*** join/#gllug highbury (n=steve@zorble.plus.com)`
`18:58.19`	`*** join/#gllug Erwin (n=erwin@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/Erwin)`
`18:59.18`	`morsing`	`highbury, Erwin!`
`18:59.25`	`morsing`	`highbury: Are you comming tomorrow?`
`19:00.23`	`highbury`	`tomorrow?`
`19:00.29`	`highbury`	`what's tomorrow?`
`19:00.38`	`highbury`	`other than wednesday`
`19:00.43`	`Erwin`	`evening`
`19:05.32`	`morsing`	`highbury: Read your gllug-social mails`
`19:05.49`	`morsing`	`Me and mozrat and kbsingh will be there. Leeds will noy be there`
`19:06.13`	`morsing`	`wethrin and rhowe are coming too`
`19:06.22`	`morsing`	`And George`
`19:07.40`	`George`	`wtf?`
`19:16.48`	`highbury`	`I'm retrieving my emails now, after not reading for nearly a month (approx 15,000 unread emails)`
`19:17.03`	`murb`	`highbury: well you can kill all the gllug ones :-)`
`19:26.36`	`morsing`	`Ok, maybe I need to practice my american but wtf does this mean:`
`19:26.38`	`morsing`	`http://www.ss396.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=chevellecamino&Product_Code=IRC-450&Category_Code=INTERIORSHEADLINERSANDSUNVISORS`
`19:26.55`	`morsing`	`Headliner? Sail?`
`19:30.14`	`rhowe`	`morsing: I might have to go along`
`19:37.33`	`morsing`	`rhowe: What's a headliner?`
`19:40.13`	`rhowe`	`morsing: wethrin streaking the house of commons?`
`20:06.02`	`*** join/#gllug janvb (i=jan@vanbergen.demon.co.uk)`
`20:12.23`	`Erwin`	`woo, Ennio Morricone will be in London on july 19th`
`20:41.23`	`wethrin`	`Erwin: Oh? Where?`
`20:42.07`	`Erwin`	`http://www.seetickets.com/see/price.asp?code=179949&userid=38637111&filler1=see`
`20:42.24`	`Erwin`	`Apollo Hammersmith. He's bringing the Hungarian Philharmonica`
`20:42.44`	`Erwin`	`And also the "Crouch End Festival Chorus Choir", not sure how that one works`
`20:43.52`	`wethrin`	`Woo`
`20:44.35`	`wethrin`	`Ahhh, BASTIGES`
`20:44.38`	`wethrin`	`It's on a Wednesday`
`20:44.44`	`wethrin`	`Bastiges and cnuts`
`20:44.44`	`George`	`?`
`20:44.51`	`George`	`FREAK`
`20:45.00`	`wethrin`	`what?`
`20:45.49`	`wethrin`	`Well, it's something I'd have liked to see. But will be on the wrong end of the country`
`21:05.46`	`*** join/#gllug Gonz00 (n=Gonzo@82-35-9-153.cable.ubr02.hari.blueyonder.co.uk)`

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