| 01:08.15 | *** join/#gllug ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 01:08.15 | *** topic/#gllug is Greater London LUG - Next Event Thursday 25th May @1900 (tbc) - Christopher Fraser (Digital Cinema & Linux) and the Great GLLUG Quiz night (There will be *prizes*!!!). http://gllug.org.uk http://planet.gllug.org.uk. Channel stats http://silenceisdefeat.org/~mozrat/gllug |
| 02:04.48 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@202.82.163.139) |
| 03:11.54 | Cope | urgh |
| 03:12.40 | Leeds | morning, and you should really be asleep |
| 03:14.13 | *** join/#gllug AndrewBlack (n=chatzill@81.2.66.249) |
| 03:19.57 | AndrewBlack | help ibot |
| 03:20.06 | AndrewBlack | ibot help |
| 03:20.12 | Leeds | AndrewBlack: do you need somebody? |
| 03:20.42 | Leeds | not just anybody? |
| 03:20.59 | AndrewBlack | not really. I meant "ibot help" but somehow got them the wrong way round. |
| 03:21.10 | AndrewBlack | Suffering from insomnia ! |
| 03:21.15 | AndrewBlack | How are things with you |
| 03:21.31 | Leeds | not bad... it's a lovely day here after the typhoon passed |
| 03:23.25 | Leeds | apart from the insomnia, how are you? |
| 03:23.57 | AndrewBlack | OK - bit stresssed though. I have changed (at work) from not being clear what I was meant to be doing to |
| 03:24.08 | AndrewBlack | being clear and having too much :-( |
| 03:25.41 | AndrewBlack | are you at work? |
| 03:26.17 | Leeds | of course |
| 03:31.29 | AndrewBlack | Just playing around with lilypond music writing software |
| 04:05.17 | Leeds | I've never really looked at that sort of thing - need to relearn the guitar first |
| 04:06.07 | AndrewBlack | yep - everyone has diff interests and you cant know about everyhing. I like combining my tech interests with classical music |
| 06:17.08 | Cope | Leeds: i haven't slept |
| 06:18.51 | Leeds | Cope: hope you're okay |
| 06:21.17 | Cope | i have earache |
| 06:21.33 | Leeds | I'm sorry to... hear... that |
| 06:21.55 | Cope | bdm tsh :) |
| 06:22.27 | Leeds | :-) |
| 06:23.00 | *** join/#gllug SlayerXP (n=Tram@ti521110a080-6171.bb.online.no) |
| 06:26.16 | Leeds | SlayerXP: good morning, and what do you know about a Barracuda Networks Spam Firewall? |
| 06:26.29 | SlayerXP | morning. I know a little bit about them. |
| 06:26.39 | SlayerXP | they're generally quite a nice bit a kit. |
| 06:27.14 | Leeds | ibot change 19000 hkd to gbp |
| 06:27.41 | Leeds | how much is your box? :-) |
| 06:28.04 | SlayerXP | similar prices. |
| 06:28.45 | SlayerXP | i don't know if it's still the case but they used to do "per user" pricing |
| 06:28.51 | SlayerXP | you pay more if you have more users |
| 06:28.56 | Leeds | you, I assume, do not have a local distributor and support agent in Hong Kong... |
| 06:29.15 | SlayerXP | you assume correctly. |
| 06:30.00 | Leeds | I don't know if the boss gets a lot more, but I get, I would estimate, well under 15% spam here... but it's starting to annoy him |
| 06:30.15 | Leeds | and - much as I'd like it - I really don't think he'd be up for using your service |
| 06:30.27 | SlayerXP | why not? |
| 06:32.07 | Leeds | to be honest, I like the idea of keeping it in-house |
| 06:32.39 | Leeds | he's not going to go for some random bloke he doesn't know, on the other side of the planet, filtering his mail |
| 06:33.20 | SlayerXP | *shrug* not much I can do about that. |
| 06:33.30 | Leeds | move to HK, get one small contract! |
| 06:33.39 | SlayerXP | i would suggest you at least try it for a month, as a freebie. |
| 06:35.34 | Leeds | if we could do it in tandem, I think it would be okay, but honestly, I think the 'random bloke on the other side of the planet' factor is a killer |
| 06:37.23 | SlayerXP | $random bloke who you've been aware of for several years, who's been doing anti-spam work for 3 years, who can provide redundant mail ingress points, who's service for a couple of years would cost way less than a barracuda box, who's offering you a freebie trial |
| 06:38.29 | Leeds | who isn't either in-house or a few miles away in HK to shout at when things go wrong |
| 06:38.50 | Leeds | I don't doubt you can do it... but the entire company runs on email, so the boss would have to trust you |
| 06:39.21 | SlayerXP | at no time in 4 years have both of the front end boxes been unavailable. |
| 06:40.42 | Leeds | also, as we've discussed before, you'd have to be happy handling Chinese mail |
| 06:41.18 | Cope | SlayerXP: who's !- the service of whom |
| 06:41.45 | SlayerXP | Leeds: i've no ethical problems with that. it occurs to me that I have no idea who the spam filters would react :) |
| 06:41.52 | SlayerXP | how the |
| 06:41.52 | Cope | i'm happy handling chinese femail |
| 06:42.01 | SlayerXP | cope ? |
| 06:42.04 | Cope | yes? |
| 06:42.13 | SlayerXP | " !- " ? |
| 06:42.17 | Cope | oh != |
| 06:42.18 | Cope | sorry |
| 06:42.33 | SlayerXP | what you said still makes no sense :) |
| 06:42.55 | Cope | "who's" does not mean "of whom" |
| 06:43.02 | Leeds | Cope: yes, we know that... |
| 06:43.11 | Cope | who's service for a couple of years... |
| 06:43.26 | Cope | just because SlayerXP is usually pedantic on apostrophes :) |
| 06:43.49 | SlayerXP | i've not had my morning litre of coffee yet |
| 06:44.59 | SlayerXP | Leeds: send me a bunch of chinese email. let's see what happens :) |
| 06:45.58 | Cope | :) |
| 06:48.43 | SlayerXP | Leeds: even without doing active spam checking, I bet we could still get 15% down to well under 1% |
| 06:50.06 | Leeds | I'm just looking back through my old mail to find a recent thread in Chinese |
| 06:51.46 | SlayerXP | to my knowledge, a correctly encoded email shouldn't trip anything |
| 06:52.15 | Cope | Leeds: you keep email that you can't read? |
| 06:52.32 | Cope | disk space is cheap, i suppose |
| 06:52.40 | Leeds | SlayerXP: my question is how well you can differentiate between Chinese spam and Chinese non-spam |
| 06:52.50 | Cope | yes, i was wondering that |
| 06:53.28 | SlayerXP | Leeds: content analysis is actually nearly the last thing the boxes do. most spam gets caught well before then. |
| 06:54.04 | Leeds | Cope: in general, I don't delete anything except spam |
| 06:54.18 | Cope | where spam is defined as unsolicited email |
| 06:54.25 | Cope | rather than email which is of no use to you |
| 06:54.59 | Leeds | spam is mail coming to my work address which is neither work mail nor personal mail, in general |
| 06:55.14 | Leeds | my mail directory is 3.4gig |
| 06:55.56 | Leeds | SlayerXP: got an address I can send a piece of example spam to? |
| 06:56.02 | Leeds | Cope: a large majority is attachments |
| 06:56.08 | SlayerXP | Leeds: martin@hinterlands.org |
| 06:56.10 | Leeds | SlayerXP: or non-spam... :-) |
| 06:56.16 | SlayerXP | myth:/var/spool/cyrus/mail/m/user/martin# du -sh . |
| 06:56.16 | SlayerXP | 533M . |
| 06:56.34 | SlayerXP | that's about 4 years of mail, including mailing lists. |
| 06:57.27 | Leeds | SlayerXP: you are not in a position where people are mailing around copies of spreadsheets multiple times a day, or sending around generated PDFs... or - in a sort-of-valid way - detailed design and prototype images for new products |
| 06:57.54 | SlayerXP | i'm usually in a position where the mai server actively refuses to do that kind of thing :) |
| 06:58.06 | Leeds | and where company policy is that all mail should go to as many people as possible |
| 06:59.36 | SlayerXP | 500 No. Do that again and you get a 2Mb quota. |
| 06:59.39 | SlayerXP | err 550 |
| 06:59.49 | Leeds | ? |
| 07:00.03 | SlayerXP | helpful messages to send back to users who send silly emails |
| 07:00.32 | Leeds | this is the way the company works |
| 07:01.02 | Cope | that's the spirit! |
| 07:01.12 | Cope | you're beginning to sound like me now! |
| 07:01.23 | Leeds | I can change it as long as I provide a better alternative |
| 07:01.28 | Cope | "yes, i know it is stupid, yes i know it sucks, but it's the way it is..." |
| 07:02.10 | SlayerXP | i worked for a law firm with a marketing department |
| 07:02.29 | SlayerXP | the marketing department would routinely mail round huge uncompressed TIF files, videos and other media. |
| 07:02.52 | SlayerXP | i introduced them to an exciting new way of sharing data |
| 07:03.08 | SlayerXP | i called it "FTP" |
| 07:05.23 | Leeds | they call it SMB here - doesn't help... people still email large documents to 15+ people when they only want to show it to one person (mail goes to as many people as possible, remember?) |
| 07:05.49 | SlayerXP | hopefully your mail server does SIS |
| 07:05.57 | SlayerXP | that's not so bad if so |
| 07:06.07 | Leeds | single instance storage? |
| 07:06.11 | SlayerXP | yep |
| 07:06.19 | Leeds | wow, complete guess :-) |
| 07:06.32 | Leeds | I think mail is mostly storage on the client... |
| 07:09.12 | SlayerXP | mein Bob |
| 07:09.33 | SlayerXP | i just called my satellite TV company to cancel the service and you'll never guess what they said |
| 07:09.46 | SlayerXP | "we'll need your cancellation notice in writing" |
| 07:09.50 | SlayerXP | "email is fine." |
| 07:10.25 | SlayerXP | normally they want it written in the blood of your first born |
| 07:14.07 | SlayerXP | Leeds: that mail you sent got through without ringing the alarms bells, or launching the ICBMs |
| 07:14.32 | SlayerXP | fascinating content. |
| 07:14.54 | Cope | now to find some chinese spam |
| 07:15.21 | SlayerXP | an openoffice handles the XLS file just fine. |
| 07:15.23 | SlayerXP | anD |
| 07:18.29 | Cope | i've been impressed with gnumeric |
| 07:20.10 | SlayerXP | yep, gnumeric is very good indeed. |
| 07:20.18 | SlayerXP | the windows port is a little clunky |
| 07:21.40 | Cope | i mght even try evolution |
| 07:27.13 | Leeds | hmm... I should find some spam... |
| 07:28.04 | SlayerXP | Leeds: recycling spam might not be too effective. spam often is picked up because of where it comes from, and how it's presented to the mail server, than from the actual content. |
| 07:29.40 | Leeds | sure |
| 07:32.24 | SlayerXP | Leeds: I reckond less than 1% of spam makes it as far as the content filter. |
| 07:32.50 | Leeds | so it's mainly caught on the basis of where it comes from, how good the smtp is, things like that? |
| 07:34.11 | SlayerXP | greylisting and dodgy spam engines, yes. |
| 07:34.51 | SlayerXP | location only really starts to matter when the mail hits the spam engine, as that does RBL lookups etc. |
| 07:36.53 | Cope | SlayerXP: what has been the biggest challenge in getting people to adopt abmx? |
| 07:37.41 | SlayerXP | Cope: everyone, bar one person, who has tried it has signed up. |
| 07:41.49 | Cope | SlayerXP: that doesn't answer the question :) |
| 07:42.13 | SlayerXP | Cope: telling people about it, I guess. |
| 07:42.33 | Cope | SlayerXP: clearly not enough people have signed up, or you'd be wealthy and not needing to leave .no :( |
| 07:42.59 | SlayerXP | in fairness, even if I was making enough cash, I'd still be leaving .no |
| 07:43.13 | Cope | perhaps you should try to market it a bit more? |
| 07:43.31 | SlayerXP | sure, will you be paying for the campaign? :) |
| 07:43.36 | Cope | do some trade shows, etc :) |
| 07:47.45 | SlayerXP | i was thinking about buying some advertising on the tube |
| 07:48.13 | Leeds | does that not cost a fortune? |
| 07:48.30 | SlayerXP | virtually all advertising costs a fortune |
| 07:48.55 | z00dax | if you can find something relevant, people who do pod-casts will do adverts fairly cheap |
| 07:48.57 | SlayerXP | I could send out some spam suppose :) |
| 07:49.07 | SlayerXP | I |
| 07:50.40 | Cope | SlayerXP: 1 month spam-free free :) |
| 07:50.59 | SlayerXP | antibody-report=# select count(distinct from_address) from abdata where is_spam is false; |
| 07:50.59 | SlayerXP | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:50.59 | SlayerXP | ------- |
| 07:50.59 | SlayerXP | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:51.09 | SlayerXP | that's 12,000 people to start with :) |
| 07:52.14 | Cope | SlayerXP: i'd help you sell abmx |
| 07:52.28 | Cope | I think it's a good product |
| 07:52.38 | Cope | no but |
| 07:52.57 | SlayerXP | well, off you go :) |
| 07:53.30 | Cope | well I suppose the but is it would have to be part of my part-time consulting stuff, so wouldn't get mega-slices of my time |
| 07:54.13 | SlayerXP | that's cool, 30 or 40 hours per work is more than enough |
| 07:55.03 | SlayerXP | per week, I mean |
| 07:56.05 | Cope | right, got to take coffee to daddy, then go to doctor's |
| 07:56.11 | Cope | back circa 1030 |
| 08:38.52 | Leeds | bad, bad supplier... do not include 3.5MB of jpg inline! |
| 08:44.10 | AndrewBlack | Had some fun yesterday. My dad said - can you show me how to unistall my broadband software so I can reinstall it. |
| 08:44.48 | AndrewBlack | Why do you need to do that - "to change the phone number". Why does it need to know the phone number - "because the monkey on helpline said it does". |
| 08:45.07 | AndrewBlack | s/the/my/ |
| 08:45.32 | AndrewBlack | I found it was all working so no need to do any of this rigmarole ...... |
| 08:50.51 | *** join/#gllug stephanb2 (n=chatzill@64.236.9.165) |
| 08:55.19 | *** join/#gllug eyore (n=eeyore@84-43-28-203.ppp.onetel.net.uk) |
| 08:58.02 | stephanb2 | good morning |
| 09:21.45 | eyore | i've done something stupid |
| 09:21.49 | eyore | i was doing a yum update |
| 09:22.10 | eyore | and i accidentily pressed ctrl-c during glibc-common upgrade |
| 09:22.29 | eyore | now i seem to have broken the dependancy tree for everything glibc and up. |
| 09:22.47 | eyore | now all i get is: |
| 09:22.56 | eyore | --> Running transaction check |
| 09:22.56 | eyore | --> Processing Conflict: glibc-common conflicts glibc > 2.3.5 |
| 09:22.57 | eyore | --> Finished Dependency Resolution |
| 09:22.57 | eyore | Error: glibc-common conflicts with glibc > 2.3.5 |
| 09:30.34 | Cope | if that has really happened, the yum is shit - surely such upgrades should be atomic. |
| 09:32.26 | Cope | anyway |
| 09:32.28 | eyore | I doubt dpkg installs are attomic if you ctrl-c half way through an install |
| 09:32.29 | Cope | here's waht you should do: |
| 09:32.55 | SlayerXP | Cope: YHM, incidentaly |
| 09:33.00 | eyore | MSI only started to support unwinding installs relatively recently |
| 09:33.02 | Cope | rpm -qa | grep glibc | sort |
| 09:33.20 | eyore | glibc-2.3.5-10.3 |
| 09:33.20 | eyore | glibc-common-2.3.5-10.3 |
| 09:33.20 | eyore | glibc-common-2.3.6-3 |
| 09:33.20 | eyore | glibc-devel-2.3.5-10.3 |
| 09:33.20 | eyore | glibc-headers-2.3.5-10.3 |
| 09:33.21 | eyore | glibc-kernheaders-2.4-9.1.94 |
| 09:33.54 | Cope | rpm -e glibc-common-2.3.6-3 |
| 09:34.50 | eyore | genius |
| 09:34.51 | eyore | ta |
| 09:34.54 | Cope | welcome |
| 09:35.13 | eyore | i kept trying to uninstall 2.3.6 |
| 09:35.18 | eyore | don't worry i stopped myself :) |
| 09:40.14 | Cope | SlayerXP: did you omit a zero? |
| 09:40.30 | SlayerXP | errm, i don't think so |
| 09:41.11 | SlayerXP | no, mail looks right to me |
| 09:41.31 | Cope | ok |
| 09:41.34 | SlayerXP | that's for "average" flows. |
| 09:42.15 | SlayerXP | you were expecting a bigger number? |
| 09:42.23 | Cope | was comparing it to the baracuda price |
| 09:42.44 | SlayerXP | that's for the hosted service. |
| 09:42.55 | Cope | right |
| 09:43.00 | SlayerXP | you don't buy a chunk of hardware, you rent use of the mail cluster |
| 09:43.10 | Cope | quite |
| 09:46.01 | SlayerXP | but, yes, add a nought for the appliance |
| 09:46.14 | Cope | yes |
| 09:47.22 | SlayerXP | so, make with the customers :) |
| 09:55.29 | Leeds | ibot sleep Cope |
| 09:55.33 | ibot | ACTION sends Cope to bed without supper |
| 09:55.45 | Leeds | well that's not very nice... |
| 10:12.44 | *** join/#gllug cbz (i=chriseb@vortex.ukshells.co.uk) |
| 10:13.08 | Leeds | evening cbz |
| 10:13.29 | cbz | Morning Leeds. |
| 10:15.57 | Leeds | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4990632.stm - "Eight die as typhoon pounds China" |
| 10:19.05 | iTron | Leeds: Finally made landfall did it. |
| 10:19.51 | iTron | Looks like it's now been downgraded to a tropical storm. |
| 10:20.22 | Leeds | yeah |
| 10:20.44 | cbz | ten thousand thundering typhoons! |
| 10:21.03 | Leeds | obviously, they lose power pretty quickly once they hit proper land |
| 10:21.30 | iTron | Indeed. Warm seas == typhoon fuel. |
| 10:22.21 | iTron | Though it looks like this storm's going to head out to sea again and make a beeline for Japan. |
| 10:22.47 | Leeds | where the Philippines obviously don't count as proper land |
| 10:23.01 | Leeds | nah, I reckon it'll peter out somewhere south of Shanghai |
| 10:23.24 | iTron | Time will tell. |
| 10:23.29 | JAV | hello |
| 10:23.39 | Leeds | JAV: hola |
| 10:23.49 | iTron | Greetings |
| 10:25.57 | iTron | SO, I receievd an email from someone ni our US office, with a forwarded reminder message purportedly from Google demanding payment for $something_expensive which someone@our.domain.address bid on and won. "Is this a scam!?!?" was the plaintive cry heard. "Why yes it is, seeing as Google.USA don't base their US auctions from a server in Taiwan." was the reply. |
| 10:26.31 | Leeds | since when have google.usa run auctions? |
| 10:26.53 | iTron | Let me correct what i just said. s/Google/Ebay/ |
| 10:27.17 | Leeds | ah, so not *quite* as dumb as at first glance then :-) |
| 10:27.40 | Leeds | would be quite amusing to see scammers create an entirely new Google service |
| 10:27.48 | iTron | It's easy to get the two confused when you're dehydrated due to having a wee nip or three of whisky last night. ;) |
| 10:28.41 | iTron | Alcohol bad for brain. </homer> |
| 10:29.58 | iTron | So anyways, I browse to this Taiwanese-pretending-to-be-ebay site, but go to the base address rather than the scam url. Lo and behold, it's a compromised box running PHPBB |
| 10:31.03 | Leeds | php bad |
| 10:31.44 | iTron | Do I A) Just leave things be and get on with life, or B) Struggle to communicate to some ISP based in Taiwan that one of their customers has been compromised and an eBay scam is running from the fubar'ed machine? The answer is : A. Because I can't be arsed. |
| 10:32.28 | *** join/#gllug puckman (n=gerard@penguin.thebrewery-london.com) |
| 10:33.55 | Leeds | I'd probably go as far as bunging a copy of it to abuse@saidisp.com.tw |
| 10:34.50 | SlayerXP | i never bother reporting abuse to non-european machines |
| 10:34.56 | SlayerXP | no point |
| 10:36.18 | Leeds | because ISPs outside Europe are all staffed by monkeys? Because none of them speak English? |
| 10:36.34 | Leeds | because they're all staffed by FOREIGN-SPEAKING MONKEYS??? |
| 10:37.07 | SlayerXP | merkins are as bad |
| 10:37.14 | SlayerXP | i once had a conversation like this |
| 10:37.30 | Leeds | I would think the phrase FOREIGN-SPEAKING MONKEYS would include (most?) Americans |
| 10:37.40 | SlayerXP | "Hi. Abuse from one of your machines, logs follow, all times are GMT" |
| 10:38.08 | SlayerXP | Week later "What time did these incidents take place?" |
| 10:38.41 | SlayerXP | "all times, those that appear in every log entry, are GMT. That's Greenwich Mean Time" |
| 10:39.00 | SlayerXP | "We can find no evidence that this abuse originated from our network" |
| 10:39.22 | SlayerXP | "You see those number seperated by dots? That's called an IP address. It belongs to you." |
| 10:39.59 | SlayerXP | and that was about the best response I've ever had from a non-european ISP |
| 10:41.54 | Leeds | I wonder about semi-spam... cases where I gave permission but later withdrew it... |
| 10:42.16 | Leeds | firstly, the "it could take up to 7/10/28 days to remove you from our list" is crap - it should take well under a second |
| 10:42.32 | Leeds | secondly, even with reputable companies, it doesn't always work |
| 10:43.00 | SlayerXP | that's one reason why abmx does banned senders, and explicit recipient lists. |
| 10:43.03 | Leeds | thirdly, I do wonder if - as is often the case - they are using a third-party mass mail company, if the third-party also purges my address |
| 10:44.29 | iTron | Later this year I will become a FOREIGN-SPEAKING MONKEY myself, after I move to Japan. |
| 10:45.08 | Leeds | iTron: do you speak the Japanese? |
| 10:46.53 | iTron | Leeds: Not as much as I should be able to by now. My wife of coruse is a native speaker, seeing as she originates from those parts. Our 4.5 year son can speak it far better than I can. |
| 10:48.38 | iTron | Best place for me to learn is in Japan, because that'll actually _force_ me to learn the lingo. Not much use not being able to ask for a packet of crisps or what have you if I live there. |
| 10:48.50 | iTron | Heh |
| 10:58.13 | iTron | Lunch! |
| 11:18.23 | stephanb2 | *lunch!* |
| 11:34.36 | iTron | keithlard: What? All tentacles and screeching? |
| 11:48.05 | keithlard | quiet today |
| 12:12.24 | Cope | ah, keithlard, I've been expecting you... ;) |
| 12:12.50 | keithlard | :) |
| 12:13.26 | Cope | #debian-es |
| 12:13.37 | rhowe | mmm, fish & chips |
| 12:13.42 | Cope | #linux-es |
| 12:13.46 | Cope | and ask JAV |
| 12:13.47 | Cope | :) |
| 12:14.48 | keithlard | and #unixmexico and #python-es and #ruby-es (though none of those have anyone alive) |
| 12:15.38 | keithlard | rhowe, where did you get fish & chips from? >:o |
| 12:15.49 | rhowe | keithlard: A chip shop |
| 12:16.14 | keithlard | bring the fish & chips to me |
| 12:16.33 | rhowe | It's now just chips |
| 12:16.46 | keithlard | the power of irc compels you!!! |
| 12:17.09 | rhowe | -EGONE |
| 12:19.38 | keithlard | rrr |
| 12:20.34 | rhowe | You wouldn't have liked it. It wasn't that tasty :P |
| 12:20.46 | keithlard | you have failed me for the last time, admiral! |
| 12:21.39 | JAV | keithlard: maybe you should try another net (#linux on irc.irc-hispano.org) |
| 12:21.49 | SlayerXP | bored. |
| 12:23.22 | JAV | my lug has #linuca on Freenode, but it has activity = 0 |
| 12:24.26 | JAV | I can talk in spanish there if you want :D |
| 12:31.40 | keithlard | bueno |
| 12:36.11 | keithlard | podemos hablar en español aqui pero no creo que todos van comprendernos |
| 12:36.50 | JAV | no problem to me, but it maybe annoy somebody |
| 12:37.10 | Cope | it would be considered bad form |
| 12:37.19 | Cope | unfortunately |
| 12:37.20 | Cope | :( |
| 12:37.38 | JAV | keithlard: just join #linuca |
| 12:37.52 | SlayerXP | oiga camerareo. cinquo cerverzas por favour. ariba! ariba! |
| 12:38.12 | Cope | infamy infamy! they've all got in infamy! |
| 12:38.34 | SlayerXP | Cope: I'm awaiting the influx of customers breathlessly, btw :) |
| 12:38.48 | JAV | SlayerXP: It's ok... for a drunken german in ibiza :D |
| 12:39.11 | keithlard | yes please |
| 12:39.16 | SlayerXP | my restaurant spanish is superb |
| 12:39.20 | Cope | oh... beer and very strong painkiller? |
| 12:39.21 | SlayerXP | "la quenta por favour" |
| 12:39.24 | Cope | good mix? |
| 12:39.45 | keithlard | me gustaría una cerveza muy fría y unas tapas |
| 12:40.03 | keithlard | and some dancing babes! |
| 12:40.10 | SlayerXP | surely "one tapas" is a contradiction in terms |
| 12:40.17 | Cope | dos manzanilla frigo por favor? |
| 12:40.24 | keithlard | i don't want to live in a world where i can't have a drink surrounded by dancing babes! |
| 12:40.49 | Cope | i want to drink surrounded by dancing geeks :) |
| 12:40.56 | Cope | oh... i do |
| 12:40.57 | Cope | :) |
| 12:41.39 | keithlard | are we socialising on saturday? your dream could come true then |
| 12:41.52 | Cope | keithlard: i have zero pence |
| 12:41.59 | Cope | keithlard: we can get into london ok |
| 12:42.04 | Cope | and bring packed lunch |
| 12:42.12 | Cope | but can't by beer |
| 12:42.33 | keithlard | have you got time to brew some before the weekend? |
| 12:43.10 | Cope | I want a new middle ear |
| 12:43.30 | SlayerXP | you have three ears? |
| 12:43.32 | JAV | let evolution do it |
| 12:43.36 | SlayerXP | i just have 2, i feel cheated. |
| 12:45.46 | keithlard | cope> if we have a business meeting, i can expense it to bitfield consulting :) |
| 12:50.28 | keithlard | expenses are great |
| 12:54.16 | rhowe | [FreeCycleLondon] Offered: children's bits & pieces, GU5, could post |
| 13:24.57 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@ipvpn095206.netvigator.com) |
| 13:25.42 | iTron | 0.o |
| 13:25.47 | iTron | Leeds: You did? |
| 13:26.05 | Leeds | yup |
| 13:26.18 | iTron | Leeds: Why? |
| 13:26.20 | rhowe | Leeds: How did that come about? |
| 13:27.02 | Leeds | me not right for the job, job not right for me, me being a lazy git, etc |
| 13:27.24 | rhowe | Leeds: In reverse order of importance? :) |
| 13:27.28 | SlayerXP | Leeds: if I were truely truely evil, I'd be asking what the chances of an abmx sale were now? :) |
| 13:27.28 | Leeds | 3 months notice |
| 13:27.32 | keithlard | shriek |
| 13:27.53 | rhowe | Leeds: Gonna be looking for work in HK, Israel or London? |
| 13:27.53 | SlayerXP | luckily I'm not |
| 13:28.03 | Leeds | rhowe: yes :-) |
| 13:28.53 | stephanb2 | rhowe: oh do you want 2 hear some more skype security news from France ? |
| 13:29.03 | rhowe | stephanb2: Yeah, why not? |
| 13:29.35 | rhowe | Leeds: "yes" is a very Chinese response to an "x, y or z" question - I think you've been in HK too long :) |
| 13:29.39 | SlayerXP | skype have security now? cool! :) |
| 13:30.29 | stephanb2 | rhowe: i spoke to a french friend y'day, he told me that it is prohibited to use / install skype inside a school or university ! |
| 13:30.42 | rhowe | SlayerXP: Did you see the "silver needle in the skype" paper, showing how to use Skype to do a portscan on hosts on the same network as the remote client? |
| 13:30.56 | SlayerXP | nope |
| 13:31.04 | rhowe | stephanb2: I'd be suprised if it was allowed in France at all - they have very strict crypto laws |
| 13:31.07 | rhowe | SlayerXP: It was quite a good read |
| 13:31.18 | rhowe | SlayerXP: search for skype on blackhat.com if you're interested |
| 13:31.33 | SlayerXP | rhowe: i've just put it on my list of things to read |
| 13:31.37 | stephanb2 | rhowe: some french defense "expert" is also afraid of a special "US gov backdoor" being implemented |
| 13:32.09 | rhowe | Leeds: So are you coming to my wedding then? |
| 13:32.13 | stephanb2 | rhowe: as a consequence french gov advises any governmental research lab not to discuss "sensitive" material with skype |
| 13:32.34 | stephanb2 | rhowe: this is borderline conspiracy theory... |
| 13:32.34 | Leeds | talking to my mum... |
| 13:32.37 | rhowe | stephanb2: Doesn't matter if you discuss or not with it. If Skype's running on your machine, it's vulnerable.. |
| 13:33.00 | stephanb2 | rhowe: ah well actuall that's a point. |
| 13:47.45 | Leeds | whatever else happens in my life, I will always be able to say that I spent a year working for a bra company in Hong Kong :-) |
| 13:48.20 | rhowe | Leeds: So what will you be doing for the next 3 months, workwise? |
| 13:48.22 | Leeds | and no-one else here will ever be able to say that :-P |
| 13:48.24 | rhowe | Leeds: Tidying up projects? |
| 13:48.36 | Leeds | yeah, pretty much |
| 13:48.40 | rhowe | Leeds: Oh, I dunno about that... to whom do I send a CV? :) |
| 13:48.54 | Leeds | joe@metexhk.com |
| 13:49.30 | Leeds | must get some travel done, since I don't think they're likely to enfore leave rules too heavily |
| 13:50.03 | rhowe | Leeds: .jp? |
| 13:50.12 | Leeds | and .sg - they'd be the first two |
| 13:50.29 | Leeds | .sg just because it's a bit different and pretty local... |
| 13:50.40 | Leeds | .jp because, well, it's .jp |
| 13:50.43 | rhowe | Leeds: Hm.. combine the two, if you can fit in a short stopover at .sg on the way to .jp for not much price difference |
| 13:50.52 | rhowe | Leeds: 3 days in Singapore is enough |
| 13:50.59 | Leeds | they're in different directions! unless I go singapore air to .jp |
| 13:51.49 | rhowe | Leeds: Depending on the airport taxes, you might find it cheaper to go indirect |
| 13:52.16 | Leeds | point is that I'd be thinking of a weekend - possibly long - in .sg, but slightly longer in .jp |
| 14:03.42 | Leeds | ah, good old traditional "I got fired" food - lean cuisine microwave pasta... |
| 14:04.46 | Leeds | thanks for the sympathy, guys... |
| 14:05.08 | Leeds | rhowe: real answer is dunno... I would probably say Israel most likely, followed by HK, followed by UK |
| 14:05.43 | rhowe | Leeds: So I have 3 months to visit you in HK, is that what you're saying? |
| 14:06.02 | z00dax | howse everyone doing ? |
| 14:06.28 | Leeds | rhowe: yeah, pretty much |
| 14:06.34 | Leeds | z00dax: read up... I got fired this evening |
| 14:06.50 | z00dax | oh! sorry to hear that... |
| 14:06.58 | rhowe | Leeds: It's an expensive time to fly, you do realise that, right? :) |
| 14:06.59 | Leeds | me too... |
| 14:07.06 | Leeds | rhowe: you've had a year! |
| 14:07.07 | z00dax | do you have something else in the potential pipeline ? |
| 14:07.23 | Leeds | not a thing - largely came out of the blue |
| 14:07.30 | rhowe | Leeds: That's no time at all! |
| 14:07.34 | z00dax | damn |
| 14:08.01 | rhowe | Leeds: I'm sure the Chinese govt might be interested in hiring an ex-Solaris hacker. No doubt they've got a project in the works to produce a clone |
| 14:08.24 | Leeds | not in the sense of being a suprise... I didn't think things were all perfect at work... just in the sense that I wasn't expecting it to come today, in the pub |
| 14:08.43 | z00dax | in the pub ? are you sure its not a bunch of guys having a laugh ? |
| 14:09.26 | Leeds | it was my boss/cousin, and it was for real |
| 14:09.37 | z00dax | humm... |
| 14:10.16 | Leeds | whoa... friend just blogged that his wife went into labour... |
| 14:10.37 | rhowe | Leeds: Presumably he knew that she was pregnant? |
| 14:10.44 | Leeds | indeed |
| 14:11.00 | rhowe | Leeds: So not a complete suprise then :) |
| 14:11.47 | Leeds | not so much |
| 14:12.47 | rhowe | Still, not a bad news day |
| 14:13.07 | cbz | you used to be a solaris kernel person, leeds? |
| 14:13.09 | rhowe | well, some of the news was fairly bad.. |
| 14:13.15 | Leeds | cbz: I did |
| 14:13.17 | rhowe | You know what I mean :) |
| 14:13.22 | Leeds | sort of, anyway |
| 14:13.30 | cbz | Leeds: What sort of stuff? |
| 14:13.43 | Leeds | rhowe: you're belittling my misery in favour of some sprog? |
| 14:13.47 | Leeds | cbz: project janus |
| 14:14.28 | cbz | Presumably you worked for sun at some point? |
| 14:14.38 | z00dax | s/janus/BrandZ/ |
| 14:14.42 | z00dax | :) |
| 14:14.44 | Leeds | all of (almost) 5 years |
| 14:14.53 | Leeds | z00dax: no, I never worked on Brand[XZ] |
| 14:15.01 | cbz | Interesting |
| 14:15.06 | cbz | I shall make a note of that for future ;) |
| 14:15.10 | z00dax | didnt Janus transmorgify into brandz |
| 14:15.42 | Leeds | z00dax: it did... at around the time they laid off the entire Janus team, and after the project had been nicked from us by some Yanks |
| 14:15.58 | cbz | That always happens in US companies |
| 14:16.04 | z00dax | Leeds: right... |
| 14:16.25 | z00dax | the _only_ person i know who actually uses brandz seems to think that Janus had better direction and goals |
| 14:16.42 | Leeds | interesting |
| 14:17.00 | Leeds | although, to be fair, it became clear towards the end that Janus wasn't there to be used anyway |
| 14:28.19 | Leeds | time to go drinking... back later |
| 14:30.01 | z00dax | Leeds: see ya |
| 14:30.22 | rhowe | Leeds: commisserations |
| 14:30.41 | rhowe | Leeds: See you sometime before the end of the year, I hope |
| 14:42.23 | *** join/#gllug eyore (n=eeyore@84-43-28-203.ppp.onetel.net.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
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| 14:44.35 | eyore | how do you set a variables in a bash script and then use it? |
| 14:45.30 | SlayerXP | FOO=bar |
| 14:45.35 | SlayerXP | if ${FOO} |
| 15:17.47 | keithlard | you need to 'export FOO' for it to be inherited by child processes |
| 15:20.23 | z00dax | and if you export to a non .eu nation - you even get VAT back |
| 15:20.43 | SlayerXP | poor Tim |
| 15:23.56 | *** join/#gllug ldnblk (n=ldnblk@host217-34-122-211.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 15:24.30 | ldnblk | afternoon all |
| 15:43.55 | stephanb2 | afternoon ldnblk |
| 15:46.24 | stephanb2 | lead nitrogen boron iodine potassium |
| 15:46.51 | stephanb2 | well it would b slightly diferent: LdNBIK |
| 15:47.32 | ldnblk | hi there stephanb2 how's things ? |
| 15:47.35 | SlayerXP | lead is Pb |
| 15:47.47 | stephanb2 | bugger me stupid |
| 15:47.47 | ldnblk | that's right slayerxp |
| 15:47.52 | SlayerXP | from the latin plumbum |
| 15:47.54 | stephanb2 | im falling asleep |
| 15:48.00 | SlayerXP | which is where we get the word "plumber" from |
| 15:48.41 | stephanb2 | SlayerXP: oh i didnt know u were a linguist? |
| 15:48.58 | SlayerXP | i;m not |
| 15:49.30 | stephanb2 | i did some latin, see... i've forgotten *everything* :'-( |
| 15:49.49 | stephanb2 | except the polish word for house |
| 15:51.33 | eyore | Is there some easy way of logging every command executed in a shell script for debuggin purposes |
| 15:51.59 | cbz | Run the script with sh -x |
| 15:52.20 | eyore | ta |
| 15:52.36 | eyore | does bash have that option too? |
| 15:52.41 | SlayerXP | yes |
| 15:52.55 | SlayerXP | /bin/sh opften points to /bin/bash on linuxen |
| 15:52.58 | SlayerXP | often |
| 15:53.27 | eyore | yes i think it does |
| 15:53.30 | eyore | being stupid sorry |
| 15:54.32 | cbz | It'll be compatible for an option that old. |
| 16:38.16 | rhowe | keithlard: You'll probably find this interesting: http://www.blackhat.com/presentations/bh-europe-06/bh-eu-06-Ollmann.pdf |
| 16:50.30 | *** part/#gllug cbz (i=chriseb@vortex.ukshells.co.uk) |
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| 16:53.49 | eyore | i've spent about 30mins pondering why this crontab isn't working |
| 16:54.02 | eyore | finally realised that 15 is 3 o'clock not 5 o'clock |
| 16:55.13 | wethrin | The metric brigade hasn't decimalised time yet |
| 16:56.20 | stephanb2 | wethrin: most metrication was introduced by napoleonic wars |
| 16:56.34 | stephanb2 | time to go home |
| 16:56.37 | wethrin | Yes. It's all the fault of the French :) |
| 16:57.02 | stephanb2 | btw the sexagesimal system was invented by the babylonians and is damn practical |
| 16:57.17 | wethrin | I know |
| 16:57.19 | stephanb2 | because 12 can be divided by 6,4,3,2 |
| 16:57.20 | eyore | sounds orgasmic |
| 16:57.29 | stephanb2 | unlike 10 by 5,2 |
| 16:57.42 | stephanb2 | this is why decimal time never got successful |
| 16:57.51 | antiphase | That's why pizzas get cut into 12 |
| 16:57.58 | stephanb2 | and eggs are packed in cartons on 6,12,24... |
| 16:58.11 | wethrin | antiphase: Really? Mine only get cut into 6 |
| 16:58.16 | wethrin | But then, I couldn't possibly eat 12 slices... |
| 16:58.48 | eyore | my cron task still isn't working |
| 16:59.01 | eyore | does this look sane: 02 18 * * * /usr/local/JSpider/bin/runSpider.sh |
| 16:59.03 | stephanb2 | on those words, time 2 go home |
| 16:59.19 | stephanb2 | cu all l8r |
| 16:59.23 | eyore | l8r |
| 16:59.28 | stephanb2 | :-) |
| 16:59.36 | *** part/#gllug stephanb2 (n=chatzill@64.236.9.165) |
| 17:00.21 | wethrin | eyore: Run it at 18.02 every day? |
| 17:00.30 | eyore | yes |
| 17:00.34 | eyore | like in 1 minute |
| 17:01.13 | wethrin | And the script runs successfully by hand? |
| 17:01.31 | eyore | yes |
| 17:01.50 | eyore | that line is in a file i created in /etc/cron.d |
| 17:01.52 | eyore | correct? |
| 17:01.56 | wethrin | no |
| 17:01.56 | SlayerXP | if a script works when run in the shell, but not from cron, it's almost always a path problem |
| 17:02.10 | eyore | ah |
| 17:02.16 | wethrin | /etc/cron.d should have system crontabs, rather than user crontabs |
| 17:02.18 | eyore | i thought i'd put scripts in there before |
| 17:02.22 | keithlard | ooh thanks russ |
| 17:02.36 | eyore | well |
| 17:02.50 | eyore | should it work in there? |
| 17:04.14 | wethrin | eyore: Just run 'crontab -e' as the user you want the script ro run as |
| 17:04.44 | eyore | what file does that go into? |
| 17:05.02 | eyore | i will want to make it redployable. |
| 17:05.37 | eyore | it really is more a system cron than a user cron |
| 17:05.59 | Leeds | now, what the fsck am I going to do with my life... in the short term, I'm going to take it to bed... g'night all |
| 17:06.06 | wethrin | night Leeds |
| 17:06.45 | wethrin | eyore: If you put it in cron.d, you need to have 6 fields, not 5 |
| 17:06.57 | wethrin | The user to run the script as preceeds the program name |
| 17:07.45 | eyore | aha |
| 17:10.02 | eyore | that might work, i'll let you know in 4 minutes |
| 17:10.04 | eyore | :) |
| 17:11.07 | rhowe | hm interesting bit on MPLS http://www.blackhat.com/presentations/bh-europe-06/bh-eu-06-Rey-up.pdf |
| 17:11.40 | rhowe | o.O "Implementing and Detecting An ACPI BIOS Rootkit" |
| 17:15.14 | eyore | YES! |
| 17:15.38 | wethrin | It works? |
| 17:17.02 | eyore | yes |
| 17:17.42 | eyore | i got email notification, spider is go! |
| 17:17.49 | eyore | now i can go home and have a drink :) |
| 17:18.41 | wethrin | Yay! |
| 17:18.50 | wethrin | hm. Almost time for me to be off to a brewery |
| 17:19.28 | eyore | bah, someone is always there to "one up" me. |
| 17:19.31 | eyore | ;) |
| 17:21.27 | wethrin | I get free pie too |
| 17:21.35 | wethrin | (at least, I was under the impression it's free) |
| 17:28.51 | eyore | :) home time |
| 17:32.37 | *** join/#gllug pie_ (n=pie@81-179-108-12.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 17:36.04 | z00dax | keithlard! |
| 17:37.16 | JAV | rhowe: intesting papers in blackhat 2006, thanks for remember |
| 17:37.29 | JAV | hello keithlard |
| 17:49.06 | keithlard | hola chico |
| 17:49.31 | keithlard | ooh, bios rootkit? excellent |
| 17:49.43 | keithlard | we're very excited about that automated attacks paper :) |
| 19:13.37 | rhowe | keithlard: I thought you might be :) |
| 19:13.52 | rhowe | keithlard: It doesn't really offer any answers, but it does at least give a nice overview of the general problems |
| 19:13.54 | keithlard | in fact we're undergoing an attack right now! otherwise we'd be reading it ;) |
| 19:14.07 | rhowe | keithlard: You should be watching BBC THREE! |
| 19:14.13 | rhowe | keithlard: Eurovision semifinal |
| 19:15.44 | keithlard | reely? |
| 19:15.47 | keithlard | is it good? |
| 19:16.37 | Cope | hello keithlard |
| 19:16.49 | Cope | i have PIE |
| 19:16.49 | rhowe | keithlard: It's Bulgaria |
| 19:17.05 | keithlard | hello :) |
| 19:17.19 | keithlard | is it a hot chick? |
| 19:17.30 | rhowe | keithlard: Hm.. there was a weird guy with strange hair and skin |
| 19:17.42 | rhowe | Slovenia! |
| 19:17.48 | keithlard | i may have just bought six hundred quid's worth of guitars |
| 19:18.05 | keithlard | oops |
| 19:18.29 | keithlard | ok home time |
| 19:18.36 | keithlard | cope> battleships? |
| 19:18.40 | rhowe | keithlard: BBC3 when you get home, I hope |
| 19:18.46 | keithlard | no tv! |
| 19:19.04 | keithlard | i'll download it later |
| 19:19.23 | rhowe | http://www.eurovision.tv/ may have streams |
| 19:20.30 | Cope | keithlard: sure |
| 19:20.38 | Cope | 2100? |
| 19:21.42 | Cope | rhowe: bring jia to hants - we have a eurovision party |
| 19:21.59 | rhowe | Cope: Already arranged elsewhere, sorry :( |
| 19:22.22 | Cope | rhowe: you me, jia and jue need to hang out one evening :) |
| 19:22.41 | Cope | jue is in london, though, so that makes it easy |
| 19:23.05 | rhowe | Cope: *nod* |
| 19:23.14 | boudiccas | rhowe; http://www.eurovision.tv/ appears only to have a windows -exectuable for their stream :( |
| 19:23.45 | keithlard | grrr |
| 19:23.51 | rhowe | boudiccas: hmm |
| 19:24.04 | rhowe | boudiccas: Let's see if we can find a MMS or RTP URL, shall we? |
| 19:24.19 | Cope | yes! let's! goody! |
| 19:25.49 | Cope | keithlard: pie and beer not a good combo? |
| 19:25.53 | keithlard | i want pie and beer! |
| 19:26.13 | rhowe | haha, this song is pants |
| 19:26.16 | rhowe | Quite literally |
| 19:26.22 | Cope | lol |
| 19:26.32 | keithlard | i am missing all the fun |
| 19:26.41 | Cope | no tv, no pie, no beer |
| 19:26.57 | keithlard | cannot you guys come up to kentish town and pub with wordtracker folks? |
| 19:27.17 | Cope | i'd have to wake william up, and we'd get there at closing time |
| 19:27.22 | keithlard | graaah |
| 19:29.59 | rhowe | Go Albania! |
| 19:30.21 | Cope | erm, what's the semi final |
| 19:30.31 | Cope | is it for people too sit to get to the final automaticaly? |
| 19:31.51 | rhowe | Cope: Yeah |
| 19:32.01 | Cope | how is that defined? |
| 19:44.21 | keithlard | ooh, that's good, #debian-es has a google bot |
| 19:53.06 | *** join/#gllug jackds (n=jackds@82-43-54-8.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 19:55.44 | rhowe | heh, Poland sure knows how to design outfits |
| 19:55.46 | rhowe | Shame they can't sing |
| 19:58.19 | z00dax | rhowe: why would poland want to sing ? |
| 19:58.58 | rhowe | z00dax: They've entered the Eurovision |
| 19:59.33 | z00dax | is that whats on ? |
| 19:59.43 | z00dax | I know there is a tv in my house somehwere |
| 19:59.49 | z00dax | is this rason enough to find it ? |
| 20:01.29 | rhowe | z00dax: Yes. BBC3 |
| 20:02.21 | z00dax | is that on the stock 5 channels ? |
| 20:02.34 | rhowe | z00dax: Nope, digital, satellite and cable only |
| 20:02.44 | z00dax | freeview ? |
| 20:03.11 | murb | munkyvision! |
| 20:03.29 | rhowe | z00dax: *nod* |
| 20:04.48 | rhowe | Turkey's singer looks quite stocky |
| 20:04.57 | z00dax | think i have one of those boxen - not sure what its working status is |
| 20:06.31 | rhowe | You're missing Ukraine |
| 20:07.17 | JAV | Shakira v2.0 |
| 20:09.58 | JAV | rhowe: finland :D |
| 20:10.34 | rhowe | hahaha yeah! |
| 20:10.44 | rhowe | This is the one I've been waiting for |
| 20:11.09 | JAV | heeeey |
| 20:11.22 | JAV | they have a yamaha motif |
| 20:11.42 | JAV | little brother of mine |
| 20:12.30 | rhowe | hahaha |
| 20:12.43 | *** join/#gllug stoat_ (n=sjames@host-87-74-26-40.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 20:12.45 | rhowe | I hope they go through to Saturday |
| 20:12.58 | stoat_ | hello - cope has power over me |
| 20:13.00 | stoat_ | i am afraid |
| 20:13.11 | stoat_ | (all yours now simon) |
| 20:13.14 | JAV | http://www.verrire.com/img/snap-La%202-20060518-221027-1.jpeg |
| 20:13.18 | rhowe | It'll cost them a fortune in makeup, though |
| 20:13.21 | JAV | http://www.verrire.com/img/snap-La%202-20060518-221131-1.jpeg |
| 20:13.31 | rhowe | JAV: No GUI for me :( |
| 20:13.45 | JAV | a pair of tv shots |
| 20:14.22 | JAV | and... yes, I need to check that noisy signal |
| 20:15.25 | Cope | come on stoat_ |
| 20:15.33 | stoat_ | ? |
| 20:15.33 | JAV | http://www.verrire.com/img/img_2423b.jpg --> I've already shown you my motif :) |
| 20:15.45 | Cope | stoat_: wnated to check you were alive |
| 20:16.45 | stoat_ | yes |
| 20:17.08 | rhowe | That's quite a drum collection |
| 20:18.46 | Cope | stoat_: esc+3 gets you here |
| 20:19.19 | stoat_ | thanks |
| 20:19.25 | stoat_ | back to 4 |
| 20:21.07 | rhowe | dubya tee eff? |
| 20:23.53 | Cope | keithlard: got to lie down - sinuses, ear etc tooooo painful to be vertical |
| 20:33.34 | SlayerXP | Cope: get all my /msgs earlier? |
| 20:36.18 | Cope | affirmative |
| 20:36.22 | Cope | lying down now |
| 20:36.32 | Cope | maybe back later if i cant sleep and if pain goes away |
| 20:37.35 | rhowe | heh, a friend just sent me "Help, my keyboard broke!" by copying+pasting each letter from an email using her mouse |
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