| 00:00.46 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@ipvpn095206.netvigator.com) |
| 02:19.38 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@202.82.163.139) |
| 05:47.32 | *** join/#gllug subir (n=subir@202.79.37.177) |
| 06:45.00 | morsing | 'morning |
| 06:45.23 | Leeds | no |
| 06:56.54 | morsing | Leeds: :( |
| 06:57.10 | Leeds | afternoon |
| 07:03.39 | morsing | Phill Jupitus? |
| 07:04.01 | Leeds | yes |
| 07:07.03 | morsing | Who is he? |
| 07:07.35 | Leeds | you're never heard of him? |
| 07:07.43 | morsing | No |
| 07:08.51 | Leeds | he's a comedian/musician/dj |
| 07:10.06 | Leeds | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phill_Jupitus |
| 07:14.00 | Leeds | he just read my email out |
| 07:18.07 | morsing | Really? Did you record it? |
| 07:18.08 | Leeds | http://www.crypticide.com/dropsafe/articles/news/post20060705220544.comments :-( |
| 07:18.14 | morsing | What did it say? |
| 07:18.17 | Leeds | it'll be on listen again later today |
| 07:19.03 | Leeds | he'd made some comment about it being the breakfast show - or the drivetime show in Hong Kong... so my reply |
| 07:19.12 | Leeds | Subject: It's not drivetime in Hong Kong - it's only 2:55 in the afternoon! |
| 07:19.18 | Leeds | Since you mentioned it... I'm listening at a bra company in Tsuen Wan - very long-time listener (since the first day), used to be regular competition winner, not been listening since moving here last year to a company which didn't approve of headphones in the office. Since they fired me a few weeks back and I'm working out my notice, I'm less bothered than I used to be about what they approve of, so I'm listening again :-) |
| 07:20.03 | morsing | :) |
| 07:20.13 | morsing | Did he comment on the bra thing? |
| 07:20.38 | Leeds | he did |
| 07:20.45 | morsing | :) |
| 07:20.47 | morsing | What? |
| 07:20.57 | Leeds | something along the lines of "well, there you go, one of our listeners is making Chinese bras!" |
| 07:21.05 | morsing | :D |
| 07:23.36 | *** join/#gllug SlayerXP (n=martin@router-office.fotango.com) |
| 07:28.43 | morsing | SlayerXP! |
| 07:28.50 | morsing | Fotango :) Nice |
| 07:28.52 | SlayerXP | morning |
| 07:42.31 | *** join/#gllug mozrat (i=mozrat@silenceisdefeat.org) |
| 07:42.40 | mozrat | Good Moaning |
| 07:42.58 | Leeds | Hoe is your dee? |
| 07:45.19 | mozrat | my dee is god! |
| 07:46.02 | mozrat | I have good nose. |
| 07:46.03 | Leeds | gid to knee |
| 07:47.39 | mozrat | The troon has been bummed by the RAF. |
| 07:48.03 | mozrat | God Moaning. The resist-once have accqo-aired a bum. They are going to ex-plod the whaleway brodge. |
| 07:49.22 | Leeds | we once had a tour guide in Israel who said something like "Listen very carefully, I'll only say this once" and had no idea what was going on when we fell about laughing :-) |
| 07:50.47 | mozrat | :-) |
| 07:54.42 | mozrat | ack - Floo has this uncanny knack of organising Lonix events that conflict with other things going on |
| 07:55.07 | Leeds | so is he actually organising events now? as opposed to announcing them |
| 07:55.17 | mozrat | I think he is, yeah |
| 07:55.43 | mozrat | He's organised Lonix going to Greenwich on the same day as the August GLLUG meeting |
| 07:55.46 | mozrat | or vice versa |
| 07:57.37 | mozrat | I was pissing by the door, when I heard two shats. You are holding in your hand a smoking goon; you are clearly the guilty potty. |
| 07:58.30 | Leeds | mozrat: LART him |
| 07:59.46 | Leeds | can I suggest that maybe if you're organising GLLUG and he's organising Lonix, you should be communicating out-of-band? |
| 07:59.48 | mozrat | Well - it's my fault as much as his - there needs to be some sort of CSMA/CD algorithm |
| 08:00.13 | Leeds | also, note that GLLUG did Greenwich a few years back in a break from the regular annual Bletchley trips :-) |
| 08:00.19 | mozrat | no, the other one |
| 08:00.24 | mozrat | CSMA/CA |
| 08:00.32 | mozrat | I need to token ring myself to Floo |
| 08:00.33 | Leeds | Mr. Hearne's idea, I believe - and a good one |
| 08:01.09 | mozrat | It is a good idea. If I wasn't going to GLLUG that day I'd go to Greenwich |
| 08:01.18 | mozrat | in fact - I might go anyway! |
| 08:14.29 | cpufreak | ' |
| 08:15.43 | SlayerXP | how can I set debconf's frontend to be "noninteractive" for just one session without using the DEBIAN_FRONTEND environment variable. |
| 08:16.15 | SlayerXP | I was thinking "aptitude -o frontend=Noninteractive -q -y install dhcp3-server" but that doesn't work |
| 08:20.02 | cpufreak | what do you mean it doesn't work? |
| 08:20.37 | SlayerXP | the package requires me to interact |
| 08:20.41 | cpufreak | doesn't for me |
| 08:20.46 | cpufreak | http://badger.ing.me.uk/dhcp.txt |
| 08:20.49 | SlayerXP | i.e. pressing "ok" on an informational screen |
| 08:20.55 | cpufreak | mine didn't |
| 08:21.04 | SlayerXP | perhaps your frontend is _already_ non-interactive |
| 08:21.35 | cpufreak | nah, its not |
| 08:21.52 | SlayerXP | you'renot using debian |
| 08:23.03 | cpufreak | aptitude: invalid option -- q |
| 08:23.06 | cpufreak | 'heh' |
| 08:32.50 | Leeds | oh fuck, things are heating up on the Israel/Lebanon border again |
| 08:34.27 | SlayerXP | waffels? |
| 08:34.46 | Leeds | rockets |
| 08:35.02 | SlayerXP | mmmsalad |
| 08:35.36 | hali | c0ffee |
| 08:40.44 | Leeds | the places which have been hit are all in the area I lived in... the villages which sent kids to my school. Except for Fassuta, which is an Arab village, but still got hit by Lebanese rockets, which were probably aimed at my village |
| 08:49.22 | *** join/#gllug huw-l (n=scmhl2@ygridll.cs.cf.ac.uk) |
| 09:11.30 | *** join/#gllug danip (n=mwheeler@212.161.126.5) |
| 09:11.56 | Leeds | evening huw-l and danip |
| 09:12.12 | danip | Hi leeds, what's up? :) |
| 09:13.20 | Leeds | very little... got one day and a little bit left before my weekend away... going to a stand-up show tonight... |
| 09:15.15 | danip | Is there any UTF-8 guru or clarivident around? |
| 09:15.49 | Leeds | I have fought with it a little |
| 09:16.49 | danip | The ida is nice, but in practice is a hell.. I have the word Valérie wich I want to convert to latin1 (ISO-8859-1). |
| 09:17.30 | Leeds | 'Valérie'.decode('utf-8').encode('latin-1') |
| 09:17.38 | danip | It's so confusing, that, depending on $TERM, you can see one thing or another on your editor.. |
| 09:18.07 | danip | leeds: That's... ruby? |
| 09:18.27 | Leeds | no, python... or something like it |
| 09:19.22 | Erwin | danip: Well, what would you do? If you want to see any chars beyond a default limited charset, you gotta run utf-8 terms |
| 09:19.45 | danip | :) What I don't understand is that the e with tilde that goes after the L is just one byte. And if I set the TERM to utf8, it displays the two bytes of utf8. |
| 09:20.03 | Erwin | Sounds like your term doesn't really support utf-8. |
| 09:20.15 | danip | Mmmm |
| 09:20.15 | Erwin | TERM is the variable that tells your program what your terminal understands. |
| 09:20.31 | Erwin | So if you set it to something like en_US.utf8, they will output utf-8. but then your terminal must also understand that. |
| 09:21.01 | Erwin | And they usually do that if they were started with LANG set to something with utf8 |
| 09:21.10 | Leeds | that's not a tilde, is it? |
| 09:21.12 | danip | Yep, If i set putty to utf8 now it's displayed correctly. |
| 09:21.24 | antiphase | Check an ASCII chart. e acute is an 8 bit ASCII character |
| 09:21.27 | Erwin | Hmm, actually, my $TERM is set to just xterm, I wouldn't think that's where you decide utf-8/nonutf-8 here |
| 09:21.31 | danip | yes, is a "e" with a tilde. |
| 09:21.32 | Erwin | There are only 7 bits in ASCII |
| 09:21.45 | Leeds | antiphase: there's no such thing as 8-bit ASCII |
| 09:22.13 | winjer | what they said |
| 09:22.14 | danip | 0xe9 on latin1 |
| 09:23.40 | danip | The problem is that I have an string that can be either on Latin1 or UTF8, and I want to convert it to latin1. |
| 09:23.51 | Erwin | Using what programming language? |
| 09:24.03 | danip | Perl. Using Unicode::String. |
| 09:24.10 | Leeds | oh, perl... |
| 09:24.10 | Erwin | utf-8 rarely has a "BOM", i.e. an initial record saying that this is indeed utf-8. |
| 09:24.24 | Erwin | So all you can do is guess. Generally if it decodes as valid utf-8, it is utf-8 (or ASCII) |
| 09:24.28 | winjer | i've never seen a BOM in the wild |
| 09:24.48 | danip | What means BOM? O) |
| 09:24.48 | winjer | latin-1 generally won't decode as utf-8 |
| 09:24.55 | winjer | Byte Order Mark i think |
| 09:25.05 | Erwin | But, there's no 100% guarnatee. So in Python I'd do: s = s.decode('utf-8').encode('latin-1'), except ValueError: nothing |
| 09:25.27 | danip | Ah, ok. Yes, what happens when I decode a latin1 string as being utf8, the letters with tildes just get stripped off, disappear. |
| 09:25.37 | winjer | that's perl for you |
| 09:25.59 | winjer | i imagine you can make it do something more useful somehow |
| 09:26.38 | winjer | in python you can tell the decoder what to do when it finds invalid characters |
| 09:26.48 | winjer | but the default is to raise an exception |
| 09:26.53 | Erwin | Right. If it fails it should stop, not just ignore. |
| 09:27.04 | danip | Mmm.. |
| 09:27.37 | winjer | you should generally be alert to the fact that windows doesn't use latin-1 too - i don't know how relevant that is to you |
| 09:27.41 | winjer | but it can often cause problems |
| 09:28.43 | danip | Acutally, I'm decoding user accounts that come from an Active Directory server.. Most of them are on utf8, but others are on latin1. |
| 09:28.52 | winjer | you sometimes find data that has come from windows is latin-1, with some cp1252 mixed into the 'hole' in latin-1 between 0x7f and 0xa0 |
| 09:28.54 | Erwin | They might be not latin-1 but cp-1252 then |
| 09:29.14 | winjer | windows is a mess wrt charsets frankly |
| 09:29.17 | Erwin | windows-1252 is the encoding name for that on my system |
| 09:29.59 | winjer | if it's coming from AD, i'd definitely check what the charset is with the server configuration |
| 09:31.13 | danip | yep.. but the string can come from several different AD servers, and the module doesn't know wich server the user comes from. |
| 09:31.29 | danip | So I guess the trick would be a kind of regexp to detect UTF8 Strings.. |
| 09:33.04 | winjer | the trick would be to know what encoding each server uses |
| 09:33.06 | Erwin | It's easier to try to decode it and catch the error. |
| 09:34.09 | danip | Yep, but the perl module I'm using doesn't throw errors, It just ouputs crap O:) |
| 09:34.41 | Leeds | get a better language |
| 09:35.04 | danip | :) |
| 09:36.09 | danip | I think I got it.. $flag = utf8::is_utf8(STRING); |
| 09:44.47 | danip | So the only way to know the encoding of an string is using hexdump? |
| 09:45.05 | Leeds | no... you can't necessarily tell at all |
| 09:45.53 | danip | :? |
| 09:47.26 | Leeds | if you just have a stream of bytes, there isn't necessarily any reliable way at all to say "this is a utf-8 string" or "this is a latin-1 string" |
| 09:47.31 | Leeds | as I understand it, anyway |
| 09:50.14 | danip | Grr.. couldn't they have done it easier!? :) |
| 09:51.01 | Leeds | danip: it could be much much worse. I'm in China. it could be much much worse |
| 09:51.52 | danip | I don't even want to imagine.. poor Leeds. |
| 09:52.12 | danip | Btw how many keys have the keyboards in there? |
| 09:52.42 | Leeds | the normal number |
| 09:52.57 | Leeds | but you might have to press lots of keys to get one character |
| 09:53.38 | Leeds | of course, 'character' is somewhere between 'syllable' and 'word' |
| 09:53.41 | danip | Like CRT-ALT-Whathever? Thats drives me to the question.. "how many fingers have people got in there?" :) |
| 09:54.02 | Leeds | for the record, I can't read, write or type Chinese |
| 09:54.08 | Leeds | nor speak or understand |
| 09:54.35 | danip | if you want we can get some money to send you a "normal" keyboard :) |
| 09:55.08 | Leeds | but as I understand it, where there you might hit 'c' then 'u', then 'n', then 't', here you would hit a sequence of keys to produce one character with the same meaning |
| 09:58.05 | Leeds | anyway, I like keyboards with lots of random squiggles on them - makes them look more interesting than boring old querty |
| 09:58.19 | Leeds | I just spelled qwerty wrong |
| 10:24.12 | morsing | Moo |
| 10:24.17 | wethrin | ooM |
| 10:24.25 | morsing | wethrin :) |
| 10:24.28 | morsing | How are you? |
| 10:24.32 | wethrin | Okay |
| 10:33.11 | morsing | :( |
| 10:33.28 | morsing | So you're not cheerful? |
| 10:40.51 | wethrin | I'm neither cheerful nor not cheerful |
| 10:45.01 | z00dax | me and terminal app's dont seem to be getting along too well |
| 10:45.13 | z00dax | how the fsck do i get rid of the scroll bar now in OSX's terminal app ? |
| 10:45.57 | mozrat | z00dax: use iTerm |
| 10:46.08 | z00dax | mozrat: where do I find that ? |
| 10:46.35 | z00dax | I've just dropped in a new hdd into my G5 and finally installed OSX on here. |
| 10:46.52 | z00dax | SlayerXP: hey, howse things with you ? |
| 10:46.59 | SlayerXP | not bad |
| 10:47.15 | z00dax | so which part of town are you based in now ? |
| 10:47.20 | mozrat | iterm.sf.net AFAIK |
| 10:47.40 | mozrat | you get tabs and transparency etc |
| 10:47.51 | wethrin | glterm! |
| 10:47.53 | SlayerXP | living in walthamstow, working just off old street |
| 10:48.01 | wethrin | Although I use xterm under OS X |
| 10:48.47 | z00dax | i wonder if my Logitech webcam works with OSX without any anal process |
| 10:48.57 | wethrin | I actually want to be able to read my text |
| 10:50.07 | z00dax | ok, brb in iTerm |
| 10:53.33 | mozrat | wethrin: I like reading a manual underneath what I am typing sometimes |
| 10:53.38 | mozrat | apart from that it is just bling |
| 10:54.01 | mozrat | or if I am keeping an eye on a copy or something and wasting time on IRC waiting for it to finish |
| 10:54.52 | wethrin | That's what overlapping or tiled windows were invented for :) |
| 10:55.30 | mozrat | humbug |
| 10:59.37 | wethrin | bah :-P |
| 10:59.47 | z00dax | ok, so the saga continues |
| 10:59.58 | z00dax | how the fsck do i get rid of the scroll bar in iTerm now ? |
| 11:00.45 | z00dax | I've been through every bit of pref's and options there are and dont seem to find anything |
| 11:00.45 | mozrat | z00dax: use xterm |
| 11:00.45 | z00dax | mozrat: :( |
| 11:00.48 | mozrat | :-) |
| 11:01.04 | mozrat | a horizontal or vertical scrollbar? |
| 11:01.12 | z00dax | Vertical |
| 11:01.52 | mozrat | what have you got against scrollbars anyway? |
| 11:02.10 | z00dax | wasted screen real estate |
| 11:02.30 | *** join/#gllug asht_007 (n=asht_007@host-212-158-220-82.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 11:02.36 | z00dax | remember, i dont even use window borders and a 4 px window title bar |
| 11:02.39 | morsing | z00dax! |
| 11:02.43 | z00dax | morsing: ! |
| 11:03.04 | asht_007 | hello all |
| 11:03.08 | mozrat | z00dax: what kind of desktop are you running?? |
| 11:03.11 | mozrat | Hi asht_007 |
| 11:03.20 | asht_007 | Hi mozart |
| 11:03.44 | asht_007 | just thinking of joining gllug |
| 11:03.53 | z00dax | asht_007: too late. |
| 11:03.59 | asht_007 | lol |
| 11:04.00 | z00dax | asht_007: you're in already |
| 11:04.13 | wethrin | There's no escape |
| 11:04.16 | asht_007 | as in i meant sigining to the mailing list too |
| 11:04.19 | mozrat | asht_007: Don't think too hard about it |
| 11:04.32 | asht_007 | well hope i can get some linux help here |
| 11:04.43 | cpufreak | unlikely |
| 11:04.44 | cpufreak | :p |
| 11:04.48 | asht_007 | lol |
| 11:04.49 | mozrat | asht_007: :-) |
| 11:05.09 | asht_007 | anyone using or used smoothwall |
| 11:05.20 | mozrat | a while ago |
| 11:05.32 | asht_007 | i am trying to setup a vpn connection from home to office |
| 11:05.57 | asht_007 | not having alot of joy |
| 11:05.57 | cpufreak | just use $std_distribution and freeswan |
| 11:06.02 | cpufreak | it generally is more straight forward |
| 11:06.20 | asht_007 | umm i got openswan installed |
| 11:06.22 | mozrat | asht_007: is it smoothy on both sides? |
| 11:06.33 | asht_007 | yes |
| 11:08.34 | cpufreak | oh, if its smoothwall both sides it'll probably be alrihgt, the only time I almost used smoothwall, was for talking to a non smoothwall other end, where a debian box running freeswan worked better |
| 11:08.53 | winjer | it must have been bad |
| 11:08.56 | winjer | if freeswan was better |
| 11:09.28 | cpufreak | this was 2001 or something |
| 11:09.41 | antiphase | openvpn works for me |
| 11:09.47 | winjer | if i was doing ipsec, i'd use openbsd and isakmpd personally |
| 11:09.51 | winjer | it's excellent |
| 11:09.52 | murb | or just use racoon and setkey |
| 11:09.59 | winjer | racoon is pretty good |
| 11:10.12 | murb | winjer: actually ipsec-tools has lots of problems :( |
| 11:10.15 | asht_007 | and that supports ipsec? |
| 11:10.27 | winjer | i had quite a lot of success with isakmpd on openbsd |
| 11:10.27 | murb | asht_007: it is just an IKEd like isakmpd and pluto |
| 11:10.30 | winjer | was a while ago though |
| 11:10.37 | murb | winjer: i've only ever used it on freebsd... |
| 11:10.42 | winjer | ah |
| 11:10.46 | murb | (isakmpd) |
| 11:10.50 | winjer | openbsd is really unbeatable for network stuff imo |
| 11:10.58 | winjer | the firewalling and traffic shaping stuff is excellent too |
| 11:11.04 | winjer | and really well integrated together |
| 11:11.53 | asht_007 | ok i am bit lost here |
| 11:12.17 | asht_007 | so install openbsd with isakmpd for a vpn connection |
| 11:12.23 | winjer | heh |
| 11:12.29 | winjer | i'm not suggesting you'd do it right now ;) |
| 11:12.33 | asht_007 | sorry what u suggesting |
| 11:12.39 | asht_007 | yeh in general |
| 11:12.42 | winjer | how many machines at each site? |
| 11:12.47 | winjer | how often is the vpn to be used? |
| 11:12.55 | winjer | how important is security? |
| 11:13.08 | asht_007 | 1 machine each side,security -fairly |
| 11:13.21 | asht_007 | vpn usage just once in a while for configuration |
| 11:13.27 | z00dax | openbsd and associates are dead |
| 11:13.35 | z00dax | there is really no point in using them anymore |
| 11:14.05 | cpufreak | troll |
| 11:14.13 | z00dax | not really. |
| 11:14.29 | z00dax | the only people who still recommend bsd is because of legacy experience |
| 11:15.01 | cpufreak | not really |
| 11:15.16 | cpufreak | there are many reasons to use bsd, or things based on bsd |
| 11:16.01 | z00dax | there are some good apps / distro's out there based on *bsd, but i see no reason to use any |
| 11:16.04 | cpufreak | its not just the licensing which cause the likes of Juniper, RedBack and Netscaler to base their devices on net/freebsd |
| 11:16.30 | *** join/#gllug gethoper1 (n=chatzill@58.234.60.50) |
| 11:16.47 | cpufreak | as ( netbsd / freebsd, as redback's smartedges are based on netbsd, netscalers at least are FreeBSD) |
| 11:16.50 | z00dax | legacy issues, Juniper has lots of money invested in their s/w |
| 11:17.00 | z00dax | i dont know about Redback or Netscaler |
| 11:17.00 | cpufreak | netscalers are a new platform |
| 11:17.05 | cpufreak | redback's smartedges are new |
| 11:17.12 | cpufreak | their old SMS platforms ran a propeitry OS |
| 11:17.35 | z00dax | ok, so your point is that if yo have an embedded platform - *bsd offers a good base to start from |
| 11:17.39 | cpufreak | for specialised purposes BSD definetly has a place |
| 11:17.50 | cpufreak | firewalls to me are a specialise purpose |
| 11:17.59 | z00dax | wethrin: humm... I've used pf a bit - didnt really like it |
| 11:18.00 | wethrin | Also, FreeBSD allows putting the machine into SCSI target mode |
| 11:18.08 | z00dax | netfilter/ip2 forever! |
| 11:18.15 | cpufreak | hence winjer's recommendation of using openbsd for a vpn endpoint/firewall is sound |
| 11:18.29 | z00dax | bsd is dead |
| 11:18.42 | cpufreak | 12:14 < cpufreak> troll |
| 11:18.43 | cpufreak | :) |
| 11:19.02 | z00dax | if you start looking at fringe role / issues - you'll have 40 different os's for different hings |
| 11:19.08 | z00dax | s/hings/things/ |
| 11:19.33 | z00dax | FreeBSD had a good starting block, maybe that should have been where Linux is today, who knows. |
| 11:21.06 | z00dax | we now return you to the regular progammin on this channel |
| 11:26.36 | *** join/#gllug mikejw (n=mikejw@85-210-26-23.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 11:30.47 | mikejw | lo |
| 11:31.34 | wethrin | hi |
| 11:33.31 | z00dax | Mail.app sux on imap emails. |
| 11:33.49 | mikejw | z00dax: did you get your MacBook? |
| 11:38.01 | danip | A nice way to store all spam? http://www.sun.com/images/k3/k3_sunfirex4500_4.jpg |
| 11:42.11 | antiphase | Who has X fu? |
| 11:44.41 | SlayerXP | antiphase: some |
| 11:48.36 | antiphase | I'd like to map a presently unused keycode to a new keysym so I can use it for stuff |
| 11:49.08 | SlayerXP | no idea. |
| 11:49.38 | SlayerXP | that's not X fu, that's userland trivia :) |
| 11:50.00 | antiphase | I suppose so. I didn't expect any Xlib gurus to be present however ;) |
| 11:51.21 | cpufreak | lol |
| 11:56.36 | morsing | ~seen George |
| 11:56.38 | ibot | george is currently on #kde (5d 3h 24m 28s) #zaurus (5d 3h 24m 28s) #gllug (5d 3h 24m 28s) #openzaurus (5d 3h 24m 28s) #opie (5d 3h 24m 28s) #handhelds.org (5d 3h 24m 28s) #elinux (5d 3h 24m 28s) #intimate (5d 3h 24m 28s). Has said a total of 275 messages. Is idling for 13h 2m 51s, last ... |
| 11:57.41 | SlayerXP | #intimate ? |
| 12:04.23 | morsing | SlayerXP: I was wondering about that as well but Leeds seemed to be in the know :) |
| 12:25.55 | JAV | hello! |
| 12:36.56 | mozrat | JAV! |
| 12:42.13 | morsing | JAV! |
| 12:42.21 | morsing | And not least mozrat! |
| 12:43.57 | JAV | where are the photos of all that ancient hardware in Betchley park? :) |
| 12:58.54 | SlayerXP | :) |
| 13:02.52 | SlayerXP | didn't I accuse Emon of being related to Henry Gilbert once? |
| 13:03.02 | *** join/#gllug cbz (i=chriseb@vortex.ukshells.co.uk) |
| 13:03.06 | SlayerXP | or possibly even _being_ henry gilbert. |
| 13:04.54 | mozrat | I think you did |
| 13:07.39 | morsing | cbz! |
| 13:07.43 | cbz | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:08.10 | morsing | My colleague has a modem with a 2 hour cut-off limit that he uses for working from home :D |
| 13:08.22 | wethrin | d'oh |
| 13:09.54 | z00dax | that sounds like late 90's freeserve.co.uk |
| 13:10.20 | z00dax | or was it mid 90's |
| 13:10.27 | z00dax | 1890's ? |
| 13:26.05 | *** join/#gllug keithlard_ (n=john@i-83-67-2-128.freedom2surf.net) |
| 13:26.15 | keithlard_ | hola |
| 13:38.52 | mozrat | keef! |
| 13:47.48 | keithlard_ | hi :) |
| 13:50.42 | morsing | I HATE REMEDY |
| 13:55.59 | winjer | hehe more legal nonsense on the mailing list |
| 13:56.03 | winjer | lets all be lawyers! |
| 13:57.15 | mozrat | David is another character that no-one I know has met |
| 13:57.43 | mozrat | although saying that I have never met SlayerXP so I'm not convinced he exists either |
| 13:57.50 | SlayerXP | i don't |
| 13:58.00 | SlayerXP | i'm a figment of your horribly diseased imaginations |
| 13:58.10 | SlayerXP | though I'm in the same room as Dean Wilson and Bruce IRchardson right now |
| 13:59.02 | winjer | if SlayerXP didn't exist, we would be forced to invent him |
| 13:59.35 | mozrat | I've met both of them - they exist |
| 13:59.55 | winjer | the sun just flickered |
| 13:59.58 | winjer | that's scary |
| 14:00.05 | winjer | i hope it's not a power cut in the sun |
| 14:00.17 | huw-l | winjer: that would be bad |
| 14:01.22 | mozrat | where "bad = end of life as we know it"? |
| 14:02.51 | huw-l | yes |
| 14:03.01 | winjer | not the end of all life |
| 14:03.09 | winjer | there are those things that live round ocean vents |
| 14:03.13 | winjer | they'll keep going |
| 14:03.31 | huw-l | they get their food from dead photosynthetic plankton so they too will eventually die |
| 14:04.12 | winjer | shame |
| 14:04.56 | mozrat | huw-l probably has a simulated model for this kind of event :-) |
| 14:07.04 | huw-l | also they need oxygen |
| 14:07.15 | huw-l | no sun == no oxygen |
| 14:09.24 | cbz | Some of them just need sulphur |
| 14:10.19 | cbz | and heat - provided for by earth's core. |
| 14:10.44 | huw-l | cbz: no they all need oxygen |
| 14:10.58 | huw-l | the bacteria may survive but none of the higher life-forms |
| 14:12.36 | cbz | Yes, I was talking about bacteria. It's not the end of all life. |
| 14:17.40 | SlayerXP | huw-l: you'd be dead without them |
| 14:17.49 | SlayerXP | from a DNA point of view, you're more bacteria than human |
| 14:18.43 | SlayerXP | wethers! |
| 14:22.04 | wethrin | Slayee! |
| 14:37.02 | mozrat | wethrin: what was the URL of the pic of you and collossus? |
| 14:37.27 | wethrin | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/private/dankolb-and-colossus.png |
| 14:37.38 | wethrin | http://www.undecidable.org.uk/edwin/photo/bletchley.php?photo=IMG_0255.jpg |
| 14:38.01 | mozrat | ta |
| 14:38.34 | mozrat | what is this chaps name? http://www.undecidable.org.uk/edwin/photo/bletchley.php?photo=IMG_0265.jpg |
| 14:38.40 | mozrat | I've met him a few times now |
| 14:38.56 | wethrin | Matthew |
| 14:38.59 | morsing | Baa |
| 14:39.09 | wethrin | or Frank? (in the edge) |
| 14:39.31 | morsing | Frank is sitting down, Matthew standing up |
| 14:39.41 | morsing | Matthew is AndrewBlack's son |
| 14:40.28 | mozrat | Oh really? |
| 14:40.45 | mozrat | No, I know frank now |
| 14:40.50 | mozrat | I meant Matthew |
| 14:41.28 | morsing | mozrat: You - really. Don't know why Matthew is never on here. Ask Andrew when he re-appeaqrs |
| 14:41.38 | morsing | s/You/Yup/ |
| 14:45.08 | morsing | Any Webtrends gurus here? |
| 14:46.54 | morsing | wethrin? |
| 14:49.03 | wethrin | what? |
| 14:51.53 | morsing | Are you a WebTrends guru? |
| 14:53.34 | winjer | he smells like one |
| 14:53.55 | cpufreak | WebTrends is a heap of shite |
| 14:54.01 | cpufreak | why would anyone want to be a guru in using it |
| 14:56.10 | morsing | cpufreak: Wouldn't know. What files are in the databases directory? |
| 14:57.52 | cpufreak | I dunno, at a previous job one of my first tasks was to deprecate webtrends, because it kept breaking |
| 14:58.02 | cpufreak | but its about 4 years since I used it properly |
| 15:00.03 | wethrin | I don't know anything about WebTrends |
| 15:00.14 | wethrin | I don't even know what it is |
| 15:00.21 | cpufreak | 15:53 < cpufreak> WebTrends is a heap of shite |
| 15:00.24 | cpufreak | now you do. |
| 15:00.34 | cpufreak | just use awstats or webalizer or something |
| 15:00.43 | winjer | webtrends is indeed cock |
| 15:00.50 | winjer | well it was last time i had owt to do with it |
| 15:00.53 | winjer | which was a long time ago |
| 15:00.57 | cpufreak | exactly winjer |
| 15:01.09 | cpufreak | its not the kind of thing you go back and try again, incase it improved |
| 15:01.17 | cpufreak | as it was so bad, there is no hope for it |
| 15:04.24 | morsing | Camelot uses it |
| 15:04.53 | z00dax | mozrat: did you ever get around to looking at django ? |
| 15:05.22 | mozrat | z00dax: no :( |
| 15:05.41 | z00dax | me neither. but now i have something that needs such a framework |
| 15:06.33 | winjer | z00dax: you looked at turbogears? |
| 15:06.58 | z00dax | winjer: since most people seem to regard django a better setup, i didnt really bother looking into tg much |
| 15:07.06 | winjer | they do? |
| 15:07.23 | z00dax | dont they ? |
| 15:07.25 | winjer | no |
| 15:07.35 | z00dax | whats better with tg ? |
| 15:07.43 | winjer | they're different really i guess |
| 15:07.49 | winjer | django is more content-oriented |
| 15:07.57 | winjer | tg is more developer/application oriented |
| 15:08.13 | winjer | so it does depend what your problem is |
| 15:08.36 | z00dax | 24,000 text docs that need to be index'ed and made available online |
| 15:09.32 | *** join/#gllug Erwin_ (n=erwin@82-71-23-7.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 15:12.30 | winjer | interesting |
| 15:13.12 | z00dax | i used to run this off a bunch of .php scripts - but somehow doing that seems so wrong now |
| 15:13.28 | z00dax | plus, i really do want to get into django - it seems interesting |
| 15:13.39 | z00dax | and i am not yet convinced enough to actually move to ruby |
| 15:13.50 | cpufreak | morsing: yeh, and Charles Craig smokes crack, it doesn't make it a good idea... |
| 15:14.16 | SlayerXP | [sic] |
| 15:15.22 | z00dax | oh no. what'd you do that for ? |
| 15:15.38 | SlayerXP | seemed funny at the time |
| 15:15.45 | z00dax | :)) |
| 15:18.54 | morsing | ping Cope |
| 15:22.18 | mozrat | woo - I installed sobby on my server. |
| 15:22.28 | mozrat | If only I had someone to collaborate with :( |
| 15:23.01 | cbz | Operation Cat Food: Objective, Turn George into catfood. |
| 15:23.15 | mozrat | I'll bring my mincing machine |
| 15:23.29 | mozrat | Hmm - George... mincer... ironic! |
| 15:30.42 | z00dax | winjer: i cant seem to find any django / turbogears comparison going tg's way - have any url's handy ? |
| 15:30.57 | z00dax | sobb ? or gobby ? |
| 15:31.20 | mozrat | sobby is the headless server |
| 15:31.24 | mozrat | gobby is the GTK client |
| 15:32.26 | winjer | z00dax: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-turbogears/ |
| 15:32.28 | winjer | down the bottom |
| 15:32.32 | z00dax | i thought that was just obby |
| 15:32.34 | z00dax | humm |
| 15:32.41 | z00dax | winjer: ty |
| 15:33.51 | mozrat | obby is the library |
| 15:35.15 | z00dax | based on that writeu0p, django is definitely the way to go |
| 15:38.54 | winjer | if you say so |
| 15:43.50 | z00dax | if you disagree, i'd love to hear it |
| 15:43.57 | z00dax | it = reason wy |
| 15:43.58 | z00dax | why |
| 15:44.10 | winjer | well i've been doing a lot of stuff with tg |
| 15:44.13 | winjer | and i really like it |
| 15:44.16 | winjer | but i haven't used django |
| 15:44.22 | winjer | so i am aware of my bias, iyswim |
| 15:44.45 | winjer | however, based on that comparison from that ibm article, i don't think any of what he says really is enough to make a decision, or is particularly strong in either direction |
| 15:44.59 | winjer | the turbogears widgets, for example, are excellent |
| 15:45.08 | winjer | and i do a lot of ajax, so the strong mochikit integration is good for me |
| 15:45.23 | z00dax | stuff about cleaner url's and link rot are important to me. things like the content focus as well - its a good thing, thats basically what I am putting out there. |
| 15:45.38 | winjer | i don't like the django approach to determining urls |
| 15:45.43 | z00dax | Also looking at community size and contrib setup's django seems to have much more momentum out there |
| 15:45.49 | winjer | going via controller classes is the right way to do it imo |
| 15:45.56 | winjer | that said, cherrypy isn't the best way either |
| 15:46.00 | winjer | i think nevow has it right |
| 15:46.09 | z00dax | whats nevow ? |
| 15:46.26 | winjer | http://www.divmod.org/trac/wiki/DivmodNevow |
| 15:46.29 | z00dax | oh. a templace system |
| 15:46.31 | z00dax | templace! |
| 15:46.37 | z00dax | no. template! |
| 15:46.39 | winjer | it's a lot more than templates |
| 15:48.11 | z00dax | looks interesting |
| 15:57.30 | *** join/#gllug PalmMagic (n=upirc@mobileweb03.london.02.net) |
| 15:58.12 | *** join/#gllug PalmMagic (n=upirc@mobileweb03.london.02.net) |
| 15:58.26 | PalmMagic | hello all |
| 15:58.47 | z00dax | pla |
| 15:58.56 | z00dax | wrong window! |
| 15:59.00 | z00dax | ^H^H^H |
| 15:59.11 | PalmMagic | yo z00dax! how goes it? |
| 15:59.25 | z00dax | hey PalmMagic, not too bad, fluffing about at the moment |
| 15:59.36 | PalmMagic | ok |
| 15:59.38 | PalmMagic | working hard? |
| 15:59.58 | mozrat | Hello PalmMagic |
| 16:00.09 | PalmMagic | hey mozrat |
| 16:01.00 | mozrat | PalmMagic: @work? |
| 16:01.22 | PalmMagic | im not, no |
| 16:01.32 | PalmMagic | 3rd of 4 rest days |
| 16:01.42 | PalmMagic | bought a few cool new toys today |
| 16:02.09 | mozrat | PalmMagic: Are you a community support officer or Metropolitan Police? |
| 16:02.30 | PalmMagic | i am a cso in the met |
| 16:02.48 | mozrat | gotcha |
| 16:02.55 | z00dax | working hardly actually, no work for me at my regular work place on Wednesdays |
| 16:03.12 | z00dax | so doing alternaive stuff and trying to resusitate some older projects that got dropped at 60 - 80% |
| 16:03.16 | PalmMagic | thats not too bad |
| 16:03.24 | PalmMagic | ok |
| 16:03.30 | PalmMagic | tryin to finish bits off then |
| 16:03.38 | z00dax | yea :) |
| 16:03.59 | z00dax | one of them is a text thing for the internet, something i did for fun a few years back. want to get that back online if i can |
| 16:04.04 | z00dax | and learn something in the process |
| 16:04.09 | z00dax | PalmMagic: so... toys ? |
| 16:04.32 | mozrat | z00dax: is it all ASCII porn? |
| 16:04.56 | PalmMagic | yeah - a freeview box, a new digital aerial and a switch for using my pc keyboard with my pda |
| 16:05.05 | PalmMagic | as im doing now |
| 16:05.18 | z00dax | mozrat: :( no... mostly just articles and stuff from 1960 to 1980 |
| 16:05.33 | z00dax | nice.. what pda ? |
| 16:05.39 | mozrat | z00dax: oh, sounds cool |
| 16:06.00 | PalmMagic | palm tx |
| 16:06.29 | z00dax | isnt it sort of odd, using a big chunky keyboard in front of a small lil endian display |
| 16:07.18 | PalmMagic | its not too bad |
| 16:07.25 | PalmMagic | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:07.30 | z00dax | :) |
| 16:07.48 | PalmMagic | and it saves jabbing the little on screen kb with the stylus |
| 16:08.03 | mozrat | When I used to lug around a Zaurus I used to pine for a foldable keyboard |
| 16:08.07 | z00dax | thats true, and you can communicate faster than 2 char/min |
| 16:08.26 | PalmMagic | i am after all, SLIGHTLY quicker on a real kb |
| 16:30.13 | *** part/#gllug cbz (i=chriseb@vortex.ukshells.co.uk) |
| 16:30.18 | z00dax | mozrat: webcam feed |
| 16:30.47 | mozrat | z00dax: webcam support in Linux is shameful |
| 16:31.17 | z00dax | my logitec qc just works |
| 16:31.22 | z00dax | didnt work in OSX though |
| 16:49.35 | *** join/#gllug goltor (n=goltor@81-179-87-103.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 17:08.04 | *** part/#gllug JAV (n=JAV@105.Red-80-34-40.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 17:08.39 | *** join/#gllug JAV (n=JAV@105.Red-80-34-40.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 18:07.50 | *** join/#gllug Cope (n=sanelson@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust853.sot3.cable.ntl.com) |
| 18:08.10 | Cope | evening |
| 18:08.24 | goltor | morning |
| 18:08.48 | Cope | in new zealand, yes |
| 18:10.06 | goltor | pffft @ nz |
| 18:20.41 | George | well, I did shit at shooting |
| 18:20.46 | George | my aggragate was about 95/105 |
| 18:20.46 | George | :( |
| 18:24.06 | boudiccas | George; good days bad days. take the rough with the smooth, etc |
| 18:24.26 | Cope | George, you're a spasmoleptic fucktard |
| 18:24.58 | boudiccas | lol |
| 18:29.54 | boudiccas | The height of embarassment is when two eyes meet at the same keyhole. |
| 19:14.26 | *** join/#gllug angelchild (n=Catalyst@jamesmorse.plus.com) |
| 19:25.01 | morsing | angelchild! |
| 19:25.04 | angelchild | morsing! |
| 19:25.26 | morsing | :) God that was quick :) |
| 19:25.43 | morsing | mmm... strawberry beer |
| 19:26.08 | angelchild | :D |
| 19:26.16 | morsing | boudiccas! |
| 19:26.26 | angelchild | boudiccas! |
| 19:34.31 | boudiccas | yes, what |
| 20:44.48 | hali | evening |
| 22:09.59 | *** join/#gllug angelchild (n=Catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild) |
| 22:33.32 | *** join/#gllug Cope (n=sanelson@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust853.sot3.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:36.24 | wethrin | COPE! |
| 22:36.46 | Cope | hi |
| 22:36.52 | George | Cope: 95 isn't that bad |
| 22:36.59 | George | I came either top orjoint top in the harrow team |
| 22:38.37 | cpufreak | wethrin: if you're back in london, I've a metric fucktonne of switches lying around |
| 22:39.18 | cpufreak | mixture of ancient cisco 2900XLs (12x/24x 100mbit) and a few more modern 3coms (24x/48x 100, 2xgig) |
| 22:39.31 | cpufreak | if you want one, you can have a 2900 for a pin of beer |
| 22:47.31 | wethrin | cpufreak: Hell yeah :) |
| 22:47.53 | wethrin | Although they're quite noisy, aren't they? |
| 22:48.54 | cpufreak | put resistors on the fans, to slow them down |
| 22:49.01 | wethrin | I'll still get myself a silent 5-port or 8-port switch for the living area |
| 22:49.24 | wethrin | Are you getting rid of the 3coms too? |
| 22:49.35 | cpufreak | I am, but would like some sort of cash for them |
| 22:49.42 | cpufreak | as they're only 2 years old and cost me money |
| 22:50.02 | cpufreak | I've got so much shit here |
| 22:50.05 | cpufreak | need to sort it out |
| 22:50.34 | wethrin | What price? I'm low on money, but could be willing to part for the right price |
| 22:51.25 | wethrin | otherwise I'll go for the 2900 :) |
| 22:51.34 | cpufreak | http://www.3com.com/products/en_US/detail.jsp?pathtype=purchase&tab=features&sku=3C17302-US |
| 22:51.47 | cpufreak | discontinued now |
| 22:51.56 | cpufreak | somewhere in the region of 50quid would do |
| 22:52.20 | cpufreak | ironically the 24port one, would cost more as its a 4400, has a higher packet forwarding rate |
| 22:52.34 | wethrin | Oh, £50 is doable |
| 22:52.55 | cpufreak | hmm |
| 22:53.02 | cpufreak | maybe 50quid waas too little :p |
| 22:53.03 | cpufreak | http://shopping.kelkoo.co.uk/b/a/ss_3com_4250t.html |
| 22:53.10 | cpufreak | apparently going for close to 500quid |
| 22:53.21 | cpufreak | I thought I only paid ~250 for them new |
| 22:53.56 | cpufreak | I said 50quid, hows about 50quid and a pint of bitter |
| 22:54.00 | cpufreak | :) |
| 22:54.39 | wethrin | I don't have that much networky stuff as to need a higher packet rate |
| 22:55.04 | wethrin | 50 quid a two pint, for both switches? :) |
| 22:55.23 | cpufreak | for a 2900xl and da 3com 4250T? |
| 22:55.23 | cpufreak | sure |
| 22:55.30 | cpufreak | whens the next gllug social? |
| 22:55.31 | wethrin | s/a two/and two/ |
| 22:55.57 | wethrin | Hmm. I'm back in August |
| 22:56.27 | cpufreak | cool, am pretty busy until then, at $new_job |
| 22:56.32 | wethrin | 2nd August, Earl's Court (beer festival) |
| 22:56.39 | wethrin | Ooh. Where are you working now? |
| 22:56.44 | cpufreak | betfair |
| 22:57.06 | wethrin | Ahhh. Can you tweak the systems so I win money? :) |
| 22:57.16 | cpufreak | not unless I want to end up in jail |
| 22:57.22 | cpufreak | which I don't really |
| 22:57.45 | wethrin | Cheaper than paying mortgage/rent :) |
| 22:58.47 | wethrin | So if you're able to bring them along to the beer festival... |
| 22:58.47 | cpufreak | quite possibly |
| 22:58.47 | wethrin | hurrah! |
| 22:59.23 | wethrin | in the meantime, I shall get myself a small 100Mbit switch suitable for a living room |
| 22:59.33 | cpufreak | by then I might well have sortedthrough my stuff |
| 22:59.37 | cpufreak | and have a bunch more stuff to give away |
| 23:00.08 | cpufreak | need to work out whats allocated to people, whats worth money and should be sold, and what I can give away to students to help them spend more money on electricity |
| 23:00.14 | wethrin | cool |
| 23:00.29 | cpufreak | should have some sun kit of some description spare |
| 23:00.51 | cpufreak | currently have a few netras, some ultra30s, an ultra60 and a sun blade 2000 workstation here |
| 23:00.59 | cpufreak | plus some storage arrays, and tape libraries |
| 23:01.20 | cpufreak | some cisco 7206vxrs, some older 7200s, some 3620/3640s |
| 23:01.25 | cpufreak | and some 2600s I think |
| 23:01.28 | cpufreak | and maybe some netscreens |
| 23:01.37 | cpufreak | too. much. junk. |
| 23:01.47 | wethrin | Dammit! I've got too much junk too. But I find it hard to resist |
| 23:01.51 | cpufreak | and worst of all, the new car has a cardboard boot |
| 23:01.57 | cpufreak | so I can't put anything of any weight in it |
| 23:02.10 | cpufreak | (cardboard, to save weight, its a silly car) |
| 23:02.15 | wethrin | Netra T1? X1? |
| 23:02.20 | wethrin | Or some other Netra? |
| 23:02.39 | cpufreak | I've some T1-105 and T1-AC200 I think |
| 23:02.43 | cpufreak | need to check |
| 23:03.00 | wethrin | *ding* |
| 23:03.24 | wethrin | I've got some friends wanting T1s |
| 23:04.26 | cpufreak | people always want T1s |
| 23:04.31 | cpufreak | good little boxes |
| 23:04.42 | wethrin | I may have to drag a friend with a car down for a trip to London :)\ |
| 23:05.27 | cpufreak | lol |
| 23:05.42 | cpufreak | right, got to be up in 7hrs |
| 23:05.44 | cpufreak | sleeeeeeep |
| 23:05.54 | wethrin | night! |
| 23:06.09 | cpufreak | but yeh, want ot have all this sorted + sold before middle of august |
| 23:06.13 | cpufreak | next nurburgring trip happening that |
| 23:06.14 | wethrin | I'm after getting a couple of machines for the Durham Uni Computing Society too |
| 23:06.24 | cpufreak | which'll cost me 500quid in fuel alone |
| 23:06.29 | wethrin | Hmmm....I can see what I can do |
| 23:06.46 | cpufreak | plus about 300quid in track pass |
| 23:06.50 | wethrin | ow |
| 23:06.57 | cpufreak | plus about 150quid in hotel |
| 23:06.59 | cpufreak | plus ferry |
| 23:07.00 | cpufreak | :S |
| 23:07.16 | cpufreak | still, aiming to get close to 8minutes |
| 23:07.23 | wethrin | good luck :) |
| 23:07.26 | cpufreak | so will be worth it |
| 23:07.30 | cpufreak | new car pwns |
| 23:07.40 | cpufreak | cheers |
| 23:07.52 | wethrin | I'll see about getting stuff from you at some point soon |
