irclog2html for #gllug on 20061111

00:17.13z00daxsomeone ping'edth ?
00:18.47z00daxwin48
00:19.04*** join/#gllug buzzer (n=buzzer@host217-37-204-121.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
00:22.10*** part/#gllug buzzer (n=buzzer@host217-37-204-121.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
00:41.38*** join/#gllug goibhniu (n=cillian@87-194-36-120.bethere.co.uk)
01:28.01wethrinGNAHH
01:56.30Leedsugh
01:56.49wethrinmorning
01:57.09Leedsuhhh?
01:57.21z00daxmorning
01:57.28wethrinIt's morning!
01:57.53z00daxit is indeed
01:57.58Leedsonly a little over 4 hours since the alarm, as well :-(
01:58.30wethrinbah
01:58.38z00daxwhat would be a fair price to pay for a 8port gigabit switch for homeuse ?
01:58.48Leedsand it wasn't like I was having an early/long night before that
01:58.52z00daxhomeuse in that i dont need vlan support, although jumbo frame capability be nice
01:59.08Leedsz00dax: I'd start thinking/looking around 50 quid, I think...
01:59.35Leedsbut I could be *completely* off
02:00.18z00daxi think you are right, dlink / netgear / linksys all have 8port stuf for about 50 - 60 quid
02:00.39z00daxanother question, is it even worth looking at thinking about anything lesser than a gigabit switch
02:01.05z00daxi know 100mb switches are a lot cheaper... but then all my machines, even the laptops all have gbe-net now
02:02.10Leedsguessing that a D-Link DGS-1008D listed as a gigabit switch is an 8-port, I see it for HK$580 - £39
02:02.39z00daxon a lighter note http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wear/6132140.stm
02:03.35z00daxDGS-1008D is about £70 here
02:03.39Leedsoh, that... been going around for a day or two now :-)
02:03.44Leedswow, twice as much?
02:03.53Leedsthat is an 8-port gigabit switch then, I assume
02:04.00z00daxyea
02:04.03Leedswell, nearly twice
02:04.53Leedsfor what it's worth, that's a price from a site showing more like indicitive prices, rather than an actual shop - could be slightly less or more
02:05.01z00daxthe netgear gs108 is about £58 and does jumbo frames too
02:05.20z00daxis there any means to get stuff from .hk to .uk ?
02:06.33Leedsno gs108 listed on that site - doesn't mean it's not available... it's www.hkgolden.com, for what it's worth, and it requires a little Chinese guesswork to navigate
02:07.03Leedsthere is means - if nothing else, I can buy stuff and ship it - but there would be shipping costs and, potentially, the demon VAT
02:07.21z00daxyou need to chat up more airhostess'
02:07.24Leedsno sales tax here - although the government would like to bring one in :-)
02:07.50Leedshmm.. that shouldn't have been a :-)
02:08.06Leedsyes, on general principles, I need to chat up more air hostesses
02:08.59Leedsfor something small, there are enough people travelling back and forth between here and the UK that you can generally get something carried - or you can post relatively cheaply - but for something large like that I'd be thinking more of DHL/Fedex/etc.
02:09.28z00daxtrue, thanks for the offer, but it would be too much of an effort on your part.
02:09.46Leedsnah, I'd be *happy* to split the difference on price :-)
02:09.56z00daxI'll actually find out where the Virgin Atlantic crew put up at when they are in .hk
02:10.32Leedsdunno about VA, but there seem to be a few cabin staff living or staying around here - I've seen them in the street a few times
02:10.44LeedsI could probably find out about the VA staff, as it happens
02:10.44z00daxalthough, the girl i know who flies with Virgin only does the .hk trip once every 6 months, but they have regular crew who do the trip twice a month
02:11.15Leedsthe shipping itself wouldn't be such a big deal without the bloody VAT
02:12.00z00daxI'll have a poke around the tcr compute fair later today, if there is no deal to be had there, i might well take you up on the offer
02:12.06LeedsI don't like VAT.
02:12.08z00daxwhats the power adapter sitation like ?
02:12.12z00daxI dont like tax
02:12.34z00daxalthough, now that i have permanent residence stamp from the home office, i am down to paying the same tax that everyone else does.
02:12.36LeedsHK has 240V, 3-flat-pin plugs - UK standard... ex-empire, dontcha know :-)
02:13.03z00daxtrue that, and ex- only recently.
02:13.12Leedsindeed
02:14.16Leedsit is nice to think that here, the government does *not* actually get a cut of *every* transaction in the marketplace - they get duty on booze/fags/etc. AFAIK, but they, until this year at least, have not attempted to distort the market like that
02:15.28z00daxis there excise ? or a production tax or something ?
02:17.01Leedsthere is income tax, companies tax, and direct taxes/duties/whatever on things like cars, gambling, etc. - but the majority of government funding comes from the fact that the government owns all the land in HK and holds a few auctions a year for long-term leases for development
02:18.06Leedsincome tax is pretty low - but it's funny hearing people from real low-tax places like the Isle of Man complaining about it - and of course Yanks are potentially double-taxed, as one of the few countries which taxes its citizens on income earned abroad
02:18.53Leedsmost countries say "if you earn income abroad and pay tax on it there, we don't want to know" - the US says "if you earn more than $80000 [I think] anywhere, we want some cash from you"
02:20.31Leedssomething like half the population here pays no income tax at all due to generous allowances...
02:21.06Leedsthere's also the odd situation of the HKD being backed directly by USD held by the HK government, so they have *enormous* amounts of cash in the bank
02:21.33z00daxI was just reading about the chinesse forex holding issue..
02:22.33Leedshttp://english.people.com.cn/200605/03/eng20060503_262762.html - that's a report on HK's tax revenues last year
02:23.23z00dax19billion isnt bad for area thats just a bit bigger than Gibralter
02:23.50Leedsuh, it's quite a lot bigger than Gib - gib has about 30k residents, HK has 7 million
02:24.06z00daxeven in area ?
02:24.13z00daxi thought hk was 4 times or something
02:24.22Leedssure... HK is about 1000km^2, while gib is about 2
02:24.40z00daxright, change in idea
02:24.45Leedswell, maybe not 2... wikipedia says 6.5
02:24.50z00dax1000 sq km is a massive area
02:25.23Leedsnot that huge, really
02:26.15LeedsHK's per capita GDP is US$33500, Gib's is US$27900 - certainly in the same class
02:27.06Leedsfor reference, the UK is US$30436 - yes, HK has a higher nominal GDP (measured with PPP) than the UK
02:28.01z00daxif asked directly, i would never have guessed it.
02:28.04z00daxhonestly
02:29.12LeedsI did say nominal for a reason - while the standard of living here is pretty high, a *huge* amount of that GDP is either concentrated in the high-powered banking/services sector, employing a lot of western expats, and a lot of it comes from trans-shipment, which does put money into the economy, but doesn't involve producing anything
02:30.06*** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@jamesmorse.plus.com)
02:32.24z00daxcatalyst:
02:32.34catalystz00dax :)
02:32.55Leedscatalyst^
02:33.12catalystLeeds$
02:34.00Leedsz00dax: did you note the bit about dependent grandparents and parents in that article - my grandfather (who only got rid of his Rolls when the Germans bought the company) was quite amused when I told him...  the Chinese are very family-oriented
02:34.38z00daxi did find that a bit stange...
02:34.42z00daxstrange even
02:34.55z00daxdoes hk have some form of social security / state pension ? I would guess not
02:35.04z00daxspecially if they offer such tax relief
02:35.05Leedsvery little
02:35.24z00daxso its essentially, either your kids sort of support you - or you live off your savings.
02:35.28Leedsmy phone is reminding me that I should go in the shower if I'm going to meet my cousin in an hour for lunch
02:36.11Leedsyes, but all employees have to (I think) pay into the mandatory providence fund (or some such) along with their employers - it's a mandatory private pension, AIUI
02:37.47LeedsI, ahem, intend to pull out the money I put into mine last year to fund my hedonism this year
02:38.28z00daxcool!
02:38.36z00daxI have a pf going from my working in India days
02:38.43z00daxI also have a pf account in Australia
02:38.49z00daxand a social security account in the US
02:38.55z00daxand now, a NI account in the UK
02:39.05z00daxwould be quite cool, if I could get all that money back!
02:39.31LeedsI think I can only get back what I put in, not what my employer put in - that's going to stay, somewhere
02:39.52LeedsI've got NI in the UK, for whatever that'll be worth in 30+ years, and two private pensions from two jobs
02:39.58z00daxcool
02:40.09z00daxyou might have an easy old age retirement fund going thn
02:40.26Leedsalso, I've got property...
02:40.29Leedsmust shower
02:43.10z00daxcya
02:56.55andrew___hi there
02:57.08z00daxandrew___: getbacktosleepyou
02:58.25andrew___same to you...  Woken up and need to do something before I can get back to sleep again
03:08.13z00daxi havent slept yet
06:12.49morsing'morning
06:51.18morsingLeeds?
07:10.04Leedsyes?
07:21.11morsingHow about this for a X-mas present for TwoSheds?
07:21.12morsinghttp://www.amazon.co.uk/101-Things-Shed-Rob-Beattie/dp/0091906113
07:31.03morsingI hate finding christmas presents
07:33.51morsingLeeds?
07:52.23*** join/#gllug eye69 (i=magnus@ipv6.upcore.net)
07:53.15morsingeye69!
07:59.50*** join/#gllug AndrewBlack (n=chatzill@81.2.66.249)
08:01.27morsingAndrewBlack!
08:19.00sabinef72morning
08:20.41trousersMorning all
08:23.49sabinef72hi trousers
08:23.56trousersHowdy
08:24.02trousersYou coming along today? ;)
08:24.12morsingsabinef72!
08:24.24trousersmorsing! Check it!
09:30.57*** join/#gllug Gunde (n=spamyous@82.153.170.213)
09:31.02morsingGunde!
09:31.20Gundemorsing (:
09:31.26GundeFeeling any better today?
09:31.49morsingWorse. Got a bad headache
09:32.04GundeIs anybody around who is familiar with train tickets to London?
09:32.23Gundemorsing: Not good. I feel a lot better after 10h sleep.
09:32.23morsingFrom where?
09:32.41Gundemorsing: Anywhere. I wonder what day ticket I need to be able to use the tube without extra ticket.
09:33.07GundeCheap day return, one day return,...
09:33.20GundeDay travelcard
09:34.41trousersI use a day travelcard... But I don't know if it's the most economically viable
09:35.14trousersTravelcard is legit for bus, train, tube (and tram?) I think
09:35.27GundeIf I see it correctly a cheap day return using my network rail card would cost me 11.60. I will need at least two tickets for the tube which are 1.50 each.
09:35.41GundeAnd the day travelcard is 14.85, so not much difference.
09:35.56trousersGunde: Where are you?
09:36.20trousersI thought you lived in Germany :S
09:36.26Gundetrousers: Cambridge
09:37.12Gundemorsing: With a headache sitting in front of a monitor might not be such a good idea...
09:37.22morsingMmm...
09:41.21trousersI'm liking my courseworks in LaTeX at the moment :) Much better than WYSIWIG editors in my opinion
09:41.30morsingNice
09:51.40*** join/#gllug failure (n=failure@host86-141-61-248.range86-141.btcentralplus.com)
09:52.19morsingfailure!
09:52.42failuregood morning
09:55.39trousersYarr
09:55.58failurewho's going to today's meeting?
09:56.14trousersMe sir! Me sir!
09:56.18failure:)
09:56.51trousersI can't seem to remember if there are any power points in the lecture hall as my laptop has, well, shite battery life to be frank
09:56.52failurei was thinking about going, but i don't know anyone
09:57.24failurebtw, is there any spanish here?
09:57.27trousersfailure: Then how will you ever come along?
09:58.02failurei think i'll go anyway :)
09:58.10trousers\o/
09:58.35trousersSee you there Luis :D
09:58.55morsingping Leeds
10:00.09failureok Thomas :)
10:00.28trousersOh no! My real name has been released :(
10:00.49Gundefailure: I dont know anybody else either, but I still go.
10:00.50failurenow, they will find you...
10:01.29failurewell, we could arrange a 'those who don't know anyone' meeting :D
10:01.54GundeYes, sit in one corner and not socialise with anybody else.
10:02.03trousersIRC!
10:02.19trousersIf z00dax brings that wireless card \o/
10:02.20GundeJust sit in a corner and look scared.
10:02.30failurehehe
10:02.32GundeOh, any idea if there is network connectivity there?
10:02.40trousersThere's WiFi iirc
10:02.48GundeOtherwise I might bring network cables and a switch, just in case.
10:04.57trousersI guess today we won't be all cooped up in the lecture theatre due to the installfest
10:05.11trousersI also assume that there will be lots of Ubuntu installs :P
10:05.57failurer u going to the install fest or only to the technical meeting?
10:06.07trousersBoth if I can \o/
10:09.45Gundetrousers: On what does it depend whether you can?
10:10.07trousersIf I'm not already doing something when something else happens
10:52.55morsingWhere did Leeds go?
10:55.25*** join/#gllug evil1337 (i=evil1337@outbound.silenceisdefeat.org)
10:55.37morsingevil1337!
10:55.45morsingmozzie?
10:55.50evil1337howdy morsing
10:55.59morsingHiya mozrat
10:56.20evil1337brb, gotta lock up for 15 min
11:01.26evil1337im missing the social to babysit a net cafe with no frikkin net access ><
11:01.28evil1337what a waste of a day
11:02.47Gundewhat does a net cafe without net earn its money with?
11:04.06morsingYuck... Cottage cheese
11:04.07trousersMozrat's not coming?
11:07.45*** join/#gllug xotl (n=yaa@82-35-62-79.cable.ubr04.camd.blueyonder.co.uk)
11:08.24trousersHowdy xotl
11:08.31morsingxotl!
11:08.31xotlmorning
11:08.38xotlhi morsing
11:09.59xotlare you guys going to the meeting today?
11:10.25morsingNo
11:10.32trousersYarr
11:10.54xotlmorsing: are you still feeling bad?
11:11.28xotlwho could pass up a chance to heckle a guy from Novell?
11:12.40xotltrousers: you'll only have to take it off again when you put a sweater on
11:12.47morsingxotl: A bit
11:12.57morsingxotl:  Bored to death as well
11:13.22xotlmorsing: oh dear. why not come to the meeting and cheer yourself up?
11:13.47trousersAye, come on morsing!
11:13.56morsingToo far annd I'm still not over my cold
11:14.00morsing:(
11:14.06trousersNowehere's too far for... Morsing!
11:14.14morsingShould really do house work as well
11:14.22morsingThanks :)
11:14.24xotlGunde: have you recovered?
11:14.44xotlI'll take some photos of the Novell guy after we've beat him up
11:14.59trousersWhy are we beating up the Novell guy? :S
11:15.08Gundexotl: Kind of, still sniffling.
11:15.37xotlfor their Microsoft deal, which I expect this speaker was personally responsible for
11:16.11trousersMircosoft deal? *Googles*
11:16.29xotlhave u not heard? its been all over the tech press
11:16.32*** part/#gllug Gunde (n=spamyous@82.153.170.213)
11:16.52trousersI've been sleeping a lot this week :)
11:17.16xotlI'm just reading that Eben Moglen is going to scrutinize the deal
11:17.40xotlthey've made various intellectual property agreeements
11:18.09evil1337trousers: lucky for some
11:18.21trousersdeep-blue, it's you!
11:18.27trousersYou coming today?
11:18.36deep-bluecant :( im stuck at work
11:18.39xotlmorsing: don't do any housework, it just gets dirty again
11:18.45morsingNice
11:18.50deep-bluewhich is kinda redundant, got no net access, meaning i cant really fix much
11:19.16morsingdeep-blue: Why are you hiding?
11:19.46deep-blueblame irssi and my bad syntaxes
11:22.46*** join/#gllug flips_and_rails (n=stu@halls-129-31-69-208.hor.ic.ac.uk)
11:26.38morsingflips_and_rails!
11:30.30trousersmorsing: What is "flip_and_rail"-ing?
11:55.54trousersHmm
12:13.53Leedsoops, bye-bye afternoon...
12:14.21z00daxi should have been at the gllug meet by now ?
12:14.38LeedsI should have been at the gym by now
12:15.21z00daxright you go, i am off as well.cya lates
12:17.09Leedshave fun
12:20.38morsingMy headache is getting really bad... :(
12:22.41JAVhello
12:22.44morsing:(
12:25.52*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@210.245.153.200)
12:25.58morsingLeeds!
12:44.10morsingping Leeds
12:45.41Leedspong
12:53.32JAVbehaviours without frontiers. I did the same
12:53.49Leeds?
12:54.33JAVI should have gone out but I stayed in bed
12:54.50JAVThere's a really great day out there
12:55.37JAVI think I'll have lunch and go shopping
12:56.40Leedsoh, I went out for brunch... came back, slowly, had tea-ish food, then took a nap... and I'm about to get washed and go out again
12:58.35JAVIt's been more than a month since I'm in madrid and I haven't had a look at a map. I have to find a proper gym near here for example
13:00.34Leedsheh... mine is a few minutes walk away down the main road - you can't miss it
13:01.39JAVIf weather continues like this I maybe go running
13:04.16Leedstoo warm to run here - and I'm not exactly in great running form... at 9pm (i.e. just now) the weather people are reporting 26C - and this is mid-November
13:07.42JAVouch
13:18.16*** join/#gllug Provito (n=Provito@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/Provito)
13:18.35morsingProvito!
13:18.39Provitohowdy
13:34.04Leedshave a good afternoon, all
13:34.17morsingNice
14:02.52morsingAnyone left here?
14:10.21JAVme, but for a few minutes
14:10.41wethrinHello
14:10.47morsingJAV: You're not going to the meeting?
14:11.09JAVwhat meeting?
14:11.11morsingwethrin: When are you going to a Sat meeting next?
14:11.27morsingJAV: The Gllug meeting? You're on a Gllug channel?!
14:11.32wethrinmorsing: No idea. Depends which Saturday meetings are on
14:11.43wethrinmorsing: Why aren't you at the meeting? Or are you?
14:12.00JAVmorsing, my soul is here buy my body (and clothes) is in Madrid
14:12.10morsingwethrin: Too far, too busy, too expensive and I've got a cold
14:13.04JAVin fact, I've never been in UK :)
14:13.06wethrinIt's closer than I am, fair enough, not *that* expensive, you have a job, and fair enough hope you feel better soon
14:16.33morsing:(
14:25.01morsingI need to get out...
14:29.10wethrinhit the town?
14:49.32rhowehttp://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,485,773.PN.&OS=PN/6,485,773&RS=PN/6,485,773
15:08.04*** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@jamesmorse.plus.com)
15:59.24morsingcatalyst!
15:59.36morsingping Leeds
15:59.45catalystmorsing!
15:59.48catalystI won't be there tonight
15:59.53morsingNice
15:59.54catalystgoing places with me friends
16:02.55morsingping wethrin
16:17.36morsing:(
16:19.29*** join/#gllug Jasperw (n=jasperw@82-68-161-101.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
16:20.25morsingJasperw!
16:47.18boudiccaz00dax; you about mate?
17:38.30wethrinmorsing: pong?
17:52.17wethrinTime for me to go!
18:17.09*** join/#gllug ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
18:17.10*** topic/#gllug is Greater London LUG - Next event is Sat. 11th November - InstallFest, Introduction to GNU/Linux and Xen. http://gllug.org.uk http://planet.gllug.org.uk
18:58.04*** join/#gllug ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
18:58.04*** topic/#gllug is Greater London LUG - Next event is Sat. 11th November - InstallFest, Introduction to GNU/Linux and Xen. http://gllug.org.uk http://planet.gllug.org.uk
19:34.32*** join/#gllug zash (i=voidzero@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG)
19:36.41*** join/#gllug goibhniu (n=cillian@87-194-36-120.bethere.co.uk)
19:51.35morsingmjallo
19:58.59Leedsreally?
20:57.22trousersHowdy
21:32.05*** join/#gllug mozrat (i=mozrat@outbound.silenceisdefeat.org)
21:37.30*** join/#gllug buzzer (n=buzzer@host217-37-204-121.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
21:38.02mozratbuzz!
22:04.58halibupp!
22:05.05halihow did he installfest go?
22:08.39trousersHowdy mozrat! Why didn't you come to the pub?
23:14.56z00daxboudicca: hola!
23:14.58z00daxI am here now
23:15.08z00daxhey trousers, howse CentOS doing ?
23:44.22*** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild)
23:46.26*** join/#gllug Gunde (n=spamyous@82.153.170.213)
23:57.41z00daxcatalyst and Gunde hello
23:57.59catalystz00dax!
23:58.28z00daxcatalyst: didnt see you at the meeting today
23:58.41z00daxor, if you were there - then i dont know who you are :)
23:58.50catalystI wasn't there :)
23:58.55catalystI live in Southampton
23:59.06catalystI thought about coming but I lack funds
23:59.20z00daxsomeone was overheard, mentioning that you might be there,, with laptop and all
23:59.37GundeI was expecting xotl to show up.
23:59.38z00daxand now, well its Sunday
23:59.52z00daxhello Gunde, i think we met today.
23:59.58Gundez00dax: I didnt see you at the pub afterwards, nor Simon.

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