| 00:12.08 | trousers_server | antiphase: Been watching Derren Brown or...? |
| 00:14.01 | trousers_server | Ooooooooooh |
| 00:20.45 | cpufreak | hrmph |
| 00:21.42 | cpufreak | I probably shouldn't have chosen this evening to go for a wander around fulham/chelsea looking at the developments I'm considering buying a flat in (post pub) |
| 00:21.45 | cpufreak | fecking wet |
| 00:22.03 | antiphase | It's fucking wet |
| 00:22.07 | cpufreak | yep |
| 00:22.26 | antiphase | I'm having some more beer while I dry out |
| 00:24.21 | cpufreak | I've only got guinness here :< |
| 00:25.06 | antiphase | I've got some grotty cheap "Beers Of The Wordl" lager multipack |
| 00:25.32 | gw280 | FLAMINGO |
| 01:12.43 | murb | http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:8NutI7NOQdwJ:www.wired.com/news/culture/1,21249-0.html+Marco+Homann&hl=en&gl=de&ct=clnk&cd=7&client=firefox-a # what not to say before a trip to southern germany, i hope he likes the bayerisch milk. |
| 02:22.33 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@210.245.153.200) |
| 02:23.39 | antiphase | so I gave her a pearl necklace |
| 02:33.45 | cpufreak | o_O |
| 02:35.10 | antiphase | You still up? |
| 02:36.03 | cpufreak | yeh..that kronenburg after the GBK didn't sit right...far too gassy |
| 02:36.09 | cpufreak | even though I only drank half of it |
| 02:36.38 | cpufreak | cba walking down to the 24hr shop to buy something that'll settle it, so was watching shit on tv |
| 02:37.40 | cpufreak | license to kill is on itv4 atm.. |
| 02:38.02 | antiphase | Nearly bed time I think, the Beers of the World multipack has nearly expired |
| 02:57.33 | cpufreak | r...I'm getting bored of bond., |
| 06:35.55 | morsing | Nice |
| 06:38.29 | Leeds | Monaco |
| 06:39.13 | morsing | LEEEEEEEEEEEDS! :) |
| 06:39.20 | morsing | Hey - you're up ;-) |
| 06:39.59 | Leeds | have been for hours |
| 06:40.31 | Leeds | really must go get my hair cut - haven't had it done since early September, and it's a mess |
| 06:42.25 | Leeds | went to see an odd Chinese film last night with Annabel and Kelly, a cute Chinese/American girl who's actually a CS grad, although she works in sales |
| 06:42.59 | Leeds | I'm getting quite good at the charming Englishman act ;-) |
| 06:43.32 | Leeds | morsing: you got big plans for tomorrow night then? |
| 06:58.06 | morsing | Yes |
| 07:12.23 | Leeds | anything in particular? |
| 07:26.20 | morsing | Leeds: Going to R&C's |
| 07:26.25 | morsing | Leeds: Why? |
| 07:26.39 | morsing | It'll be just the three of us... |
| 07:46.46 | morsing | Leeds? |
| 08:00.03 | morsing | ibot wake Leeds |
| 08:00.05 | ibot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on Leeds and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
| 08:06.21 | *** join/#gllug gunde (n=chatzill@pD953422F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:07.31 | antiphase | Stupid HP bacon rolls |
| 08:09.47 | morsing | Mmm... HP Bacon rolls |
| 08:48.55 | Leeds | don't even know what a couple of these things are - the woman suggested them to me... |
| 09:08.54 | *** join/#gllug flips_and_rails (n=stu@halls-129-31-69-208.hor.ic.ac.uk) |
| 09:11.30 | *** join/#gllug gunde (n=chatzill@pD953422F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:37.50 | *** join/#gllug chris_ (n=chatzill@crag1.plus.com) |
| 09:56.59 | morsing | Nice |
| 09:57.03 | morsing | chris_! |
| 10:12.45 | murb | moin |
| 10:19.35 | rhowe | hm, so Saddam's dead |
| 10:22.41 | murb | still? |
| 10:22.55 | rhowe | Seems that way |
| 10:28.41 | morsing | Nice |
| 10:28.45 | morsing | No - really! |
| 10:29.06 | morsing | rhowe: Why were you ignoring him? |
| 10:30.59 | rhowe | comms embargo |
| 10:34.32 | morsing | Hmm... DR is changing TV/media licencing |
| 10:57.40 | murb | DR? |
| 11:08.05 | morsing | Denmark Radio |
| 11:09.06 | morsing | They are now charging everyone with a computer even though they only stream TV and radio in some proprietary format that Linux users can't watch/listen to |
| 11:09.16 | morsing | Denmarks Radio |
| 11:17.41 | murb | morsing: so don't listen to the radio then? |
| 11:19.42 | murb | morsing: if they had a dial in service would they require everyone with a telephone to pay as well? |
| 11:26.28 | boudiccas | morsing; so they're now taxing your computer so that you can listen to the radio then? Is it just your main computer, or all your computers? |
| 11:26.44 | morsing | murb: They will charge you no matter what you do |
| 11:27.13 | morsing | boudiccas: One licence per house hold. The UK has it as well. |
| 11:27.50 | morsing | murb: They'll charge you for a mobile phone as well because you can watch TV on some of them |
| 11:28.10 | boudiccas | morsing; thats the tv licence which i don't subscribe to. i listen to the radio and wacth videos on my computer, but with no tv card |
| 11:28.17 | boudiccas | *watch |
| 11:28.19 | morsing | So if you live in a box but own a Nokia 6310 you will pay "media" licence |
| 11:28.52 | morsing | Cope! |
| 11:29.01 | *** join/#gllug Cope (n=nelsonst@88.212.149.148) |
| 11:29.03 | boudiccas | too late, he's gone |
| 11:29.18 | boudiccas | and come back too :) |
| 11:30.21 | morsing | Cope! |
| 11:30.31 | serris | Hi boudiccas |
| 11:30.41 | boudiccas | serris; hiya :) |
| 11:30.47 | serris | How's it going? |
| 11:31.16 | boudiccas | just got up an dstill tired. having reached my optimum caffeine level yet. hows things with you? |
| 11:31.31 | boudiccas | *haven't |
| 11:32.15 | *** join/#gllug mb^2 (n=mb^2@81.2.66.249) |
| 11:32.26 | serris | Alright just waiting for tomorrow |
| 11:32.44 | boudiccas | last day at work? you've got new year off? |
| 11:32.57 | serris | Yep |
| 11:33.04 | serris | I worked Christmas day and Christmas eve |
| 11:33.11 | serris | So got today off |
| 11:33.20 | boudiccas | hooray !!!! and got paid a packet too i guess :) |
| 11:33.26 | serris | I wish |
| 11:33.31 | serris | I did 14 hours on Sunday |
| 11:33.36 | serris | Thinking I'm getting 16 quid an hour |
| 11:33.46 | serris | But it was normal pay |
| 11:34.00 | boudiccas | sheeesh |
| 11:34.07 | serris | I did another 12 hours on double pay though |
| 11:34.32 | boudiccas | money is always useful :) |
| 11:34.32 | serris | It was good though. I got payed 26 hours for walking around kicking toilet paper around and such |
| 11:34.45 | serris | We also found a football so we were kicking that around |
| 11:34.57 | boudiccas | :o) |
| 11:35.31 | serris | It wasn't too bad |
| 11:35.56 | serris | But tomorrow is the day I get to sleep all day/night without being woken up |
| 11:36.01 | boudiccas | but new year will be better [apaprt from the weather that is] |
| 11:36.25 | serris | I'm not going outside =/ |
| 11:36.28 | serris | Besides to smoke |
| 11:36.56 | boudiccas | put your souwester on when you do then, the weather report is not good |
| 11:37.23 | serris | I have a nice yellow flouresent jacket that'll keep me warm |
| 11:37.48 | boudiccas | don't forget your head ... in the rain |
| 11:38.32 | serris | Nowt to worry about. The only thing I'm worried about is how much work I got tonight. Apparently it's a really light delivery on grocery which means not much on booze. That means I have to work extra hard on being slow so I don't get shoved off to somewhere else |
| 11:38.52 | boudiccas | lol |
| 11:39.33 | serris | The only good thing about pulling the Christmas shifts were free food |
| 11:39.59 | boudiccas | they provided you with food in your breaks? |
| 11:40.19 | serris | Just in one break. You could pick something reasonable |
| 11:40.31 | serris | This meant my mate managed to rack up about 30 quids worth of food for dinner |
| 11:40.32 | boudiccas | ah, i see |
| 11:41.00 | serris | Some Taste The Difference fish pie, some coloured ready made rice, naan bread and a bunch of other stuff |
| 11:41.01 | boudiccas | i'd have had salmon fillet samdwiches ... lovely jubberly |
| 11:42.04 | trousers_server | Howdy! |
| 11:42.13 | serris | hi trousers_server |
| 11:42.18 | boudiccas | trousers; hiyas |
| 11:42.45 | boudiccas | something i said? |
| 11:42.54 | trousers | There, just the one of me :D |
| 11:43.04 | boudiccas | too many trousers here!!!! :) |
| 11:43.45 | antiphase | God damn it, cfengine is horse shit |
| 11:44.08 | boudiccas | welll, put it on your roses then :) |
| 11:46.27 | morsing | serris! |
| 11:46.32 | serris | morsing! |
| 11:46.34 | serris | how's it going? |
| 11:47.21 | morsing | Just leaving now, going to the airport |
| 11:47.26 | morsing | It's raining |
| 11:51.24 | serris | Have fun flying |
| 12:12.54 | rhowe | heh, muppets - http://siksai.co.uk/~rhowe/skychat.html |
| 12:17.23 | gw280 | :D |
| 12:20.22 | trousers | Afternoon, George |
| 12:22.18 | gw280 | hi. |
| 12:23.53 | wethrin | ahoy |
| 12:24.01 | wethrin | rhowe: Coming out tonight for a drink? |
| 12:24.18 | rhowe | wethrin: Hm.. perhaps |
| 12:24.23 | wethrin | yay! |
| 13:04.49 | morsing | wethrin: Why am I not invited? |
| 13:05.13 | Leeds | morsing: don't worry - I'm not, either |
| 13:33.07 | *** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild) |
| 13:48.12 | Cope | byee |
| 13:48.47 | wethrin | morsing: You're in the wrong country, aren't you? |
| 13:49.37 | wethrin | catalyst! |
| 14:05.56 | wethrin | morsing: ping? |
| 14:14.31 | antiphase | mysql-- # Gay |
| 14:29.13 | morsing | catalyst! |
| 14:29.27 | wethrin | morrrrsing! |
| 14:29.38 | morsing | wethrin: No I'm not! |
| 14:30.35 | morsing | Beer! |
| 14:30.50 | wethrin | morsing: Then come tonight! |
| 14:31.02 | morsing | Too tired |
| 14:31.04 | wethrin | Bah |
| 14:31.15 | morsing | :) |
| 14:31.27 | wethrin | Come drink in Beaconsfield one evening on your way home |
| 14:31.42 | morsing | wethrin: Will do |
| 14:32.45 | wethrin | Yay! |
| 15:06.17 | wethrin | Dear IRC, you're being very dull today, Love Dan |
| 15:22.12 | trousers | wethrin: Or not! |
| 15:23.02 | wethrin | Yarrr! |
| 15:23.26 | wethrin | Right. Foodtime. Then possibly Londontime! |
| 15:23.39 | Leeds | wethrin: last night, I went to see a Chinese (not HK) film, with sex, drugs, violence, constumes which meant that every woman in it was about to pop out of her dress, ninjas, and a setpiece battle in Tiananmen Square... it wasn't very good... then later in the pub, I was lamenting the fall of the British Empire :-) |
| 15:24.06 | wethrin | How very Imperialist of you, Leeds :) |
| 15:24.12 | wethrin | Port, sir? |
| 15:29.05 | Leeds | also, as a relatively severe form of procrastination to avoid tiding up in this place |
| 15:37.11 | boudiccas | How do you do subscripts in latex please? |
| 15:49.18 | Leeds | "What in heaven's name brought you to Casablanca?" "My health - I came to Casablanca for the waters" "The waters? What waters? We're in the desert!" "I was misinformed..." |
| 15:49.20 | rhowe | wethrin: What time were you going t'pub? |
| 17:00.50 | *** join/#gllug xotl (n=chatzill@82-35-62-79.cable.ubr04.camd.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 17:01.18 | Leeds | xotl! |
| 17:01.43 | xotl | afternoon leeds. or whatever time it is in your part of the world |
| 17:01.56 | Leeds | 1am :-) |
| 17:02.16 | xotl | nice. are you globetrotting again? |
| 17:02.32 | Leeds | not yet... and I don't want to :-( |
| 17:03.01 | Leeds | been in HK for almost 3 months now... probably going to have to leave mid-January, due to lack of work |
| 17:03.20 | xotl | what is the job market like? |
| 17:03.31 | Leeds | for Linux developers? appalling |
| 17:03.38 | Leeds | for java/.net... there's some |
| 17:03.42 | xotl | are there that many places that speak english? |
| 17:03.59 | Leeds | but most companies don't seem to want to do development in HK - it's cheaper to do it in China |
| 17:04.37 | Leeds | I've sort of been ignoring the language thing... I assume that anywhere technical enough for me to work would be English-friendly... and there are lots of expat-friendly places, which are all English-oriented |
| 17:04.50 | xotl | ah yes. what advantage can hong-kong based developers offer in fact? |
| 17:04.56 | xotl | over mainland devs |
| 17:05.22 | Leeds | mainly an international viewpoint |
| 17:05.30 | Leeds | which isn't such an advantage when it comes to pure dev work |
| 17:05.37 | xotl | shaky :-S |
| 17:05.48 | Leeds | it's good for sales, for finacial stuff, etc. |
| 17:06.01 | boudiccas | hk devleopers can lean over the users shoulder and whisper encouraingly in their ears :))))) |
| 17:06.35 | xotl | what about the banks there? they've normally got a lot of stuff for expats don't know about the technical side so much |
| 17:06.49 | boudiccas | I WANT a GB english keyboard that doesn't make all these typos |
| 17:07.20 | xotl | just change the setting to en-gb and touch type |
| 17:07.26 | Leeds | I've looked at one or two banks... again, lots of dev work elsewhere... someone mentioned HSBC had hired thousands of devs in India recently... sent my CV to Merrill Lynch yesterday |
| 17:08.09 | xotl | the banks have to be a good bet i would imagine. |
| 17:08.32 | xotl | i expect they have more java work than linux dev no? |
| 17:08.36 | Leeds | yes |
| 17:09.07 | xotl | i've never worked out why banks are so resistant to oursourcing |
| 17:09.19 | Leeds | my problem is that, on paper, my main languages are python and C, and there's very little of either here... I'm a good engineer - I can learn a new language pretty quickly - but on paper I'm inexperienced |
| 17:09.20 | xotl | *outsourcing |
| 17:09.22 | boudiccas | xotl; the problem is an id10t error, at the interface of the keyboard and the chair |
| 17:10.20 | boudiccas | if the banks outsource they run the risk of backdoors being left in the program which are then used to steal or divert monies |
| 17:10.20 | xotl | boudiccas: invent a new typo resistant keyboard |
| 17:10.46 | boudiccas | need to put my brain on recharge |
| 17:10.49 | Leeds | amongst other things, that means my main chance is going into companies from inside, not through public recruitment - particular for big companies like banks, I'd expect them to be doing keyword-matches on the CVs coming in |
| 17:10.59 | xotl | boudiccas: why is that more likely? in china i suppose its possible but india? |
| 17:11.31 | boudiccas | its a possibility wherever they outsource too |
| 17:11.53 | xotl | Leeds: what about admin? do you do that too? |
| 17:12.17 | Leeds | xotl: not professionally |
| 17:12.31 | hali | pretty much all bansk i work with have outsourced most of their IT ... and they are all hell to work with |
| 17:12.37 | xotl | boudiccas: i dont see why that would be a problem really. major wholesale banks have operations almost everywhere |
| 17:12.50 | Leeds | that is, I've been using Linux for about 11 years, have run a machine or two here and there, but not been a professional admin |
| 17:12.59 | hali | my goal in life is to bring down EDS |
| 17:13.53 | xotl | Leeds: have you looked into the jobs available in that area? the banks have a lot of specific apps they need supported so I imagine they have to be a bit flexible about the skills of the people they hire |
| 17:14.14 | Leeds | xotl: for some reason, I'm currently having a run of making friends with cute and interesting Chinese women - it's an intruiging development and one I would like to explore further :-) |
| 17:14.59 | Leeds | I have been looking all over the place... I have a few potentials open, but not much time - I'm running out of money to live here on :-( |
| 17:15.01 | xotl | Leeds: lol. yeah good plan, don't let boring work stuff get in the way of that project :-) |
| 17:15.37 | xotl | what is the cost of living like out there? |
| 17:15.50 | Leeds | rent isn't cheap - everything else can be |
| 17:16.07 | hali | rent is higher than in london? |
| 17:16.17 | Leeds | similar/higher... |
| 17:16.24 | Leeds | you can get cheaper, if you want to go local. I don't |
| 17:17.12 | xotl | Leeds: higher than london?! you have seen the rises in the uk housing market recently i take it |
| 17:17.14 | Leeds | and I can't take a proper rental until I've got some work - I'm not going to sign a contract if I've got no income coming in |
| 17:17.25 | Leeds | xotl: I have a flat in London being rented out :-) |
| 17:18.03 | xotl | Leeds: a nice buffer if the hk market is rising more slowly then |
| 17:18.04 | Leeds | anyway, it means I'm on a short-term lease, which is obviously more expensive |
| 17:18.33 | xotl | have you had a contract yet in hk? |
| 17:18.36 | Leeds | oh, I could sell my place in London and live on the proceeds for a couple of years here quite comfortably, if on slightly dodgy legal grounds |
| 17:18.46 | Leeds | I worked here until August |
| 17:19.15 | xotl | wow, you must have caught a lot of the property boom wave |
| 17:19.20 | Leeds | the dodgy legal grounds being the lack of a long-term visa... I'd be a tourist who happened to live here |
| 17:20.07 | xotl | yeah but since you'd have to get a job after 2 years, you may as well get one sooner then you can sort out the visa. I assume |
| 17:20.27 | Leeds | parse error |
| 17:20.39 | Leeds | if I stayed like that, I'd be constantly looking for work |
| 17:20.46 | Leeds | I bought in London in 2000 |
| 17:20.58 | xotl | that is unless there is a sharp reversal in the uk property market |
| 17:21.38 | xotl | i read that the FSA has advised banks to be able to cope with a 40% drop in prices |
| 17:21.44 | Leeds | the issue now is where the money comes from for next month's rent... if I liquidated my flat, I'd have a large chunk of cash in the bank, but I wouldn't want to spend any more of it than I wanted to... could remortgage and pull out some of the capital, I suppose |
| 17:22.06 | Leeds | 40% drop would still see me well in the black |
| 17:22.12 | xotl | nice |
| 17:22.54 | xotl | remortgage could also be a bit risky. I hear rents are being squeezed with interest rate rises. but if you are that much in the black maybe you're ok... |
| 17:23.48 | Leeds | oh, I wouldn't pull that much out - say I remortgaged for 115% of my current value - that would give me enough to live on here for almost a year |
| 17:24.05 | Leeds | 115% of my current morgage, that is... would still only be about 50% of the value of the property |
| 17:24.10 | xotl | Leeds: what happens when things go wrong in the flat? do you have a property manager? |
| 17:24.13 | Leeds | assuming things didn't collapse in the meantime |
| 17:24.20 | xotl | nice figures you got going there |
| 17:24.22 | Leeds | yeah, got an agent who's also managing |
| 17:24.47 | xotl | they normally take quite a cut |
| 17:24.57 | Leeds | the paper value is about 200% of what I paid, and I put a non-trivial deposit down... life savings and all that |
| 17:25.38 | Leeds | they're taking about 13% of the rent for management and leasing fees |
| 17:26.19 | xotl | whoa. that would kill most ppl's profit margin |
| 17:26.34 | Leeds | the way the numbers work out, and assuming some relatively realistic expenses, I'm not making anything from renting it out, so all I'm gaining is the capital appreciation |
| 17:27.11 | Leeds | if the expenses are low, I make a bit, but nothing particularly significant |
| 17:27.21 | xotl | a high risk strategy, but i guess it worked out for you with the boom and everything |
| 17:27.30 | Leeds | yup |
| 17:28.18 | Leeds | I've discussed with my parents... my dad is a solicitor, and does property stuff as a side business... and he has my power of attorney... if he wants to look into selling it and buying something possibly more suitable to rent, he's welcome |
| 17:28.19 | xotl | so if you have no income from that you are just reliant on your savings then? |
| 17:28.41 | Leeds | until about now, I've been living on the excess income I made here last year |
| 17:29.04 | xotl | you must be highly paid when you do work, then! |
| 17:29.06 | Leeds | in the past couple of weeks, that's run out and I'm onto savings, which is why I'm thinking I'll have to leave |
| 17:30.44 | xotl | well, keep us informed of your adventures, then |
| 17:30.53 | Leeds | the frustrating thing is that there are still potential jobs... I submitted two CVs yesterday - one to Nvidia, one to Merrill Lynch, and got an email from a mate - last week he told me his place had recently lost two techies and was looking for replacements, and asked for my CV - his reponse so far is "Have passed it to Henry the IT manager and something surely will be on" |
| 17:31.47 | xotl | I personally don't get any hopes up unless i'm called to interview |
| 17:31.49 | Leeds | obviously there are no done deals or I wouldn't be planning to leave, but there are things which could pan out - it's not a complete no |
| 17:31.54 | Leeds | yeah, of course |
| 17:32.45 | xotl | what about just regular temping in the banks? not much fun but there's normally quite a bit of stuff around in london at least |
| 17:32.46 | Leeds | hell, I applied for a techie job at Google here, which does fit my skills, down to asking for Linux and Python... and had someone I know on #python submit my application as an internal referral rather than a public application - that could still work out |
| 17:33.15 | Leeds | I can't temp here, legally |
| 17:33.34 | xotl | oh, how come? only permanent jobs then? |
| 17:33.58 | Leeds | visa-wise |
| 17:34.17 | xotl | bummer. cos perm jobs take months to come through normally |
| 17:34.41 | Leeds | I can always scrounge up some cash to live on - but it's the bad money after good problem |
| 17:35.05 | xotl | any chance to get a change to the visa allowing temping? |
| 17:35.17 | Leeds | nope |
| 17:35.35 | xotl | i suppose contracting counts as temping does it? |
| 17:35.44 | Leeds | I need an explicit work visa, and that only comes for skilled, relatively high-paid jobs |
| 17:36.15 | xotl | I would have thought that linux dev work in C counted as skilled |
| 17:37.18 | Leeds | oh, sure - I'm not worried about getting a visa if I can get a job offer... but I'm not going to get a visa for short-term work, and you get a visa for a specific job, not just 'to work' |
| 17:37.41 | xotl | I see |
| 17:37.59 | xotl | does your tourist visa have an expiry date on it then? |
| 17:38.09 | Leeds | I had a visa last year... one person who passed on my CV to her boss came back to me a couple of days later with his first question: "Does he need a visa, and has he had one before?" |
| 17:38.56 | Leeds | you get 6 months coming in on a UK passport and it's pretty easy to get it renewed, at least once, AFAIK |
| 17:39.17 | xotl | that's a pretty normal first question anywhere but normally its hr that gets to deal with that crap before the managers |
| 17:39.35 | Leeds | small-ish company, I think |
| 17:39.55 | *** join/#gllug Dick_Turpin (n=Dick_Tur@dsl82-163-112-79.as15444.net) |
| 17:40.02 | Leeds | in the entire time I've been here, I've not been in Hong Kong for a single 6 month stretch |
| 17:40.07 | Leeds | Dick_Turpin: still pissed off at me? |
| 17:40.40 | xotl | you go to china or just gallavanting around the world? |
| 17:40.55 | Dick_Turpin | Leeds, Why on earth would I be pissed off? I've had worse pranks played on me than that |
| 17:41.11 | Leeds | I managed to screw things up when I came back here in October - came in on my previous work visa, which had 3 days left on it and should have been cancelled... ended up having to leave three days later and come back in to get a tourist visa |
| 17:41.19 | Leeds | Dick_Turpin: fair enough - just that I haven't seen you around since then |
| 17:41.44 | Leeds | s/around/around much/ |
| 17:42.12 | Dick_Turpin | Leeds, I've been on just about every day but nobody has been about, oh sure people have been logged in but thats misleading |
| 17:42.29 | Leeds | never actually been to China proper... was in Sri Lanka a couple of times for work, a couple of day trips to Macau, a weekend to Singapore, and a couple of trips back to the UK |
| 17:42.43 | xotl | presumably all visas come with a period within which you must not return to the country |
| 17:42.52 | Leeds | must not return? |
| 17:43.58 | xotl | yes, like if the visa is 6 months tourist visa, you must not return before another 6 months is up, for example. otherwise the 6 month visa means nothing because you could simply go out and get a new visa straight away again |
| 17:44.00 | Leeds | as far as I know, every time you come in, you get a new 6 months - until they decide you've been here long enough without a long-term visa, at which point they'll give you a short-term one (2 weeks, maybe) and tell you that *next* time you won't get one |
| 17:44.32 | xotl | ok |
| 17:45.14 | xotl | so thats how they work it then. Would have thought my idea was easier to implement though |
| 17:45.40 | xotl | ISTR that the US has a stay-away period for their visas |
| 17:46.05 | Leeds | I get the impression that if you're not causing any problems, and you're white (or black, probably - not Asian, anyway) you can stay for a pretty long time without trouble |
| 17:46.30 | Leeds | but it's only UK passports which get 6 months, anyway - other westerners get 3 months |
| 17:46.59 | xotl | ah cos they are so appreciative of our colonial influence? :-) |
| 17:47.15 | Leeds | yes |
| 17:47.22 | xotl | how come they don't want other asians staying? |
| 17:47.25 | Leeds | before '97 Brits didn't need any visa to live or work here |
| 17:47.54 | Leeds | HK has one of - if not the single - highest standards of living in Asia, with the possible exception of Japan... |
| 17:47.57 | xotl | serious? do the hk residents appreciate the colonial stuff? most countries hate it. understandably |
| 17:48.43 | xotl | so its just an illegal migration management strategy basically? |
| 17:48.48 | Leeds | yeah, most people I've spoken to would have prefered to stay as a colony |
| 17:48.49 | Leeds | right |
| 17:49.00 | Leeds | they're not keen on 'mainlanders' here |
| 17:49.14 | Leeds | HK has a real superiority complex - can get a bit nasty at times |
| 17:49.35 | xotl | that's interesting. there can't be many countries like that. are they scared of what the government will do to hk freedoms? |
| 17:50.06 | xotl | come to think of it, how is hk governed? does it have any democratic system? |
| 17:50.18 | Leeds | nope, not democratic |
| 17:50.31 | xotl | so it is totally controlled from beijing? |
| 17:50.52 | Leeds | they had a 'general election' a couple of weeks back... about 250,000 people get to vote, for slightly more than 1/2 of the 'electoral committee' which gets to elect the Chief Exec - the PM, effectively |
| 17:51.13 | xotl | why does that not count as democratic? |
| 17:51.53 | Leeds | because the population is about 7 million, and almost half the electoral committee is appointed |
| 17:52.10 | xotl | ok. who is it that gets to vote? |
| 17:52.19 | Leeds | not sure, to be honest... certainly not me |
| 17:52.47 | xotl | so do mainland citizens have any right to live in hk? |
| 17:53.12 | Leeds | the battle - which has been won this time, for the first time - for the pro-democrats, is to get more than 100 people elected to the electoral committee, which means they actually get to nominate someone as CE, rather than it being 'unanimous' |
| 17:54.24 | Leeds | while there's no chance of their candiate winning, at least it means it's legally not a one-horse race - it shows there is demand for democrac |
| 17:54.25 | xotl | so really hk people are living in the shadow of beijing, uncertain of whether the main government will try and get them under their thumb |
| 17:55.25 | xotl | btw: are we allowed to discuss this? i mean you won't get arrested or anything will you :-D |
| 17:55.41 | Leeds | in general, things are pretty free... there's some self-censorship in the press, but it's not particularly heavy... certainly, people criticise the HK government pretty freely, and organisations like the Catholic Church and Falun Gong which are banned in China operate openly here |
| 17:55.51 | xotl | i assume the great firewall of china includes hk |
| 17:56.01 | Leeds | nope |
| 17:56.20 | xotl | you mean nope that the firewall does not operate in hk? |
| 17:56.27 | Leeds | the only thing blocking us off from the rest of the world right now is a big hole in the sea south of Taiwan :-\ |
| 17:56.29 | Dick_Turpin | some friends of mine from the security services will be knocking on his door very soon its called payback :-) |
| 17:57.57 | xotl | uh, what is that big hole? |
| 17:58.23 | Leeds | there was a little 7.2-level earthquake on Tuesday night? |
| 17:58.35 | xotl | oh didn't hear about it |
| 17:58.57 | xotl | i thought you were referring to korea's nuclear test, lol |
| 17:59.01 | Leeds | it knocked much of East Asia off the Internet and took out a significant proportion of the entire Asian telecoms network |
| 17:59.32 | xotl | any tsunamis or anything? |
| 17:59.51 | xotl | by cutting undersea cables? |
| 18:00.04 | Leeds | there was a warning that there was a 1 meter wave heading south, but it dissipated... if you didn't make the connection, Tuesday was 26/12... |
| 18:00.34 | Leeds | that is, 2 years since the big one |
| 18:00.59 | xotl | would a 1 metre wave kill people? |
| 18:01.11 | xotl | i mean isnt that just a normal size wave? |
| 18:01.20 | Leeds | maybe, if you're paddling at the time... could damage some seaside property |
| 18:01.27 | Leeds | could also grow as it hits shallower water |
| 18:01.47 | xotl | oh ok, so they thought it was a tsunami wave |
| 18:02.02 | xotl | which would mean it was travelling at several hundred miles per hour |
| 18:02.05 | Leeds | there was certainly an energy pulse in the water |
| 18:02.07 | xotl | unlike a normal wave |
| 18:02.23 | Leeds | right |
| 18:02.42 | xotl | then, as you say it turns into a monster in shallow water |
| 18:03.02 | xotl | hey, but you are still connected to irc so that's ok! |
| 18:03.21 | Leeds | and the Philippenes haven't exactly had a great year when it comes to Mother Nature anyway |
| 18:03.55 | xotl | what happened there |
| 18:04.40 | Leeds | they tend to get hit by typhoons - hurricanes - and one in particular killed a few thousand people earlier in the year |
| 18:05.04 | xotl | did you hear there was a hurricane in london? |
| 18:05.21 | xotl | quite amazing |
| 18:05.24 | Leeds | no there wasn't - there was a tornado |
| 18:05.57 | xotl | wind thing |
| 18:06.20 | Leeds | believe me, there's a big difference... |
| 18:06.40 | Leeds | a tornado is a twister - one, very dangerous, point wind which wanders |
| 18:06.43 | xotl | i thought it was just a different name in different part of the world or something. what is the difference? |
| 18:07.16 | Leeds | a typhoon and a hurricane are both cyclones - huge wind systems hundreds of miles across which wipe out cities |
| 18:07.28 | Leeds | New Orleans was hit by a single hurricane |
| 18:07.37 | xotl | but they stil have a center right? |
| 18:07.43 | Leeds | I've felt the tail-end of one here, and they're bastards |
| 18:08.02 | Leeds | yes, but the center of a tornado is meters across, while the center of a hurricane is miles across |
| 18:08.40 | xotl | i would be quite interested to see a florida hurricane |
| 18:08.49 | xotl | if you can do it without being killed |
| 18:08.51 | Leeds | from a distance |
| 18:09.35 | xotl | isnt there a minor version called "tropical storm" |
| 18:09.40 | Leeds | it's a long time since HK was hit by a really strong one - mostly, they go to north or south |
| 18:10.06 | xotl | is that where you saw it? |
| 18:10.23 | Leeds | typhoons are ranked in a scale - tropical depression is the lowest, then TS, then typoon 1-4, then typhoon 5 aka supertyphoon |
| 18:12.01 | xotl | how do you know all this wind stuff? |
| 18:12.56 | Leeds | a) I know a lot about everything :-) |
| 18:13.04 | hali | it's generally common knowledge :) |
| 18:13.17 | xotl | no it isnt |
| 18:13.21 | hali | at least since the movie "twister" and hurricane kathrina |
| 18:13.38 | xotl | whats b) |
| 18:13.50 | Leeds | b) I'm the sort of geek who, when he sees an official typoon warning published - and you see them everywhere, because every building in HK posts up some official weather warnings, since they have legal meanings - goes and does some research |
| 18:14.48 | xotl | good for you. perhaps if london had some more intersting wind systems i would research them |
| 18:15.36 | Leeds | particularly because a typhoon 5 (1 means there's a typhoon somewhere in the region, 3 means there's one nearby and 5 means there's one here) means work, schools, etc. are closed ;-) |
| 18:16.13 | xotl | that would make it rather more relevant to one's life |
| 18:16.49 | xotl | if i remember correctly the movie twister was so totally rubbish i didn't bother to finish watching it |
| 18:16.50 | Leeds | there are also three levels of rain warning - amber, red and black - and black means "time to go home" as well :-) |
| 18:17.35 | Dick_Turpin | Leeds, I didn't know you was a weather man? |
| 18:17.42 | xotl | there must be one when the rain is actually falling no? otherwise you could not go outside when its black |
| 18:17.43 | Leeds | Dick_Turpin: the word is geek... |
| 18:18.48 | xotl | yeah. just look for a job in meteorology |
| 18:19.26 | Dick_Turpin | Leeds, I could think of another word :-P |
| 18:19.49 | Leeds | xotl: there are two opinions... one says, when it goes to black, you should go home - particularly if you're a parent and your kids might be being sent home from school... the other opinion says that if it's already black, it's too late and you should stay inside until it clears |
| 18:19.54 | Leeds | Dick_Turpin: go on... |
| 18:20.01 | xotl | now michael fish is gone, there is no glamour left in weather forecasting |
| 18:20.21 | trousers | Wow, distcc really seems to be helping compiling on this laptop |
| 18:20.51 | Dick_Turpin | Leeds, Na, I've got the hump waiting for kino to import an mpeg file which when it has I've no clue how to get what my daughter wants |
| 18:21.13 | Leeds | the way they reported the earthquake really reminded me of the hurricane: "Some people have contacted the Observatory [HK Met Office] to report that they've just felt what they said was an earthquake. We are investigating" - or words to that effect |
| 18:21.18 | xotl | Leeds: they clearly need you as a weather consultant to help them resolve this issue |
| 18:22.10 | xotl | if the black refers to rain only and not wind, then why do you need to go home? |
| 18:22.29 | Leeds | welcome to the tropics |
| 18:22.52 | Dick_Turpin | Leeds, its p***** down here |
| 18:23.13 | xotl | i like the idea of lots of days off for weather conditions |
| 18:23.36 | xotl | anyway UK transport systems seem to have plenty of problems just with our weather |
| 18:23.56 | Leeds | not had a single one since I got here - although there was one day the weathermen got a lot of hassle because it should really have been a T5 and they left it at T3 |
| 18:24.33 | Leeds | there were trees over, downed cables, etc. |
| 18:24.51 | xotl | presumably public transport halts during the winds? |
| 18:25.12 | Leeds | overland does, I think, yes |
| 18:27.40 | xotl | i imagine hk has much more secure roof tiles than in uk, since every time there is strong winds here someone gets killed by flying roof tiles |
| 18:30.17 | Leeds | no roof tiles here at all, at least not in the city |
| 18:32.14 | xotl | they seem to be quite keen on roof tiles for the temples, though |
| 18:32.35 | Leeds | yeah, true... don't think they fall off though |
| 18:32.56 | Dick_Turpin | Turkey has an interesting building method mum and dad build a single level with the corners in place for the second level |
| 18:33.31 | xotl | ...then the kids build the next level or what? |
| 18:33.33 | Dick_Turpin | When they have kids mum and dad build level two and move up there and the kids have the ground level |
| 18:33.54 | xotl | ah |
| 18:33.57 | Dick_Turpin | if it has a roof on gran and gradad are dead |
| 18:34.43 | xotl | well if it doesnt have a roof on what do mum and dad do when it rains? |
| 18:34.48 | Dick_Turpin | When we went I thought the whole place was a building site untill a local explained the method to us |
| 18:35.31 | trousers | xotl: Flat roof vs slanted? |
| 18:35.36 | xotl | yes they should do that here and just scrap the building regs. at least we might be able to afford a house |
| 18:35.46 | Leeds | there's a slot on the tax return here for "dependent grandparents" - you get a tax credit for them |
| 18:35.51 | xotl | trousers: quite possibly |
| 18:35.58 | Dick_Turpin | xotl, its a flat roof they only have a slanted one when the jig is up for the granparents |
| 18:36.43 | Dick_Turpin | It was funny to see them all sitting out on the unfinneshed flat level of an evening |
| 18:36.58 | xotl | Leeds: lol why don't the grandparent just get the money themselves |
| 18:37.24 | Dick_Turpin | Oh and lots of houses didn't have doors or windows |
| 18:37.29 | Leeds | xotl: because the grandparents aren't paying any tax - most people in HK don't pay any tax - and there's virtually no welfare system |
| 18:37.43 | Dick_Turpin | so anyone could just walk in! |
| 18:38.13 | xotl | hang on, but don't the grandparents have to live somewhere before they die? so is there a third level or just the slanted roof? |
| 18:38.42 | Dick_Turpin | yep three levels if theres four then they are upper class |
| 18:38.46 | trousers | xotl: They live with their kids in an old house... |
| 18:38.52 | xotl | Leeds: right. but dont benefits get taxed? they do in the uk don't they? |
| 18:39.41 | xotl | upper class? if you're upper class dont you just get a proper house built in the first place |
| 18:39.49 | Leeds | xotl: that's what I mean by 'virtually no welfare system'... and the bottom tax band is certainly high enough that a government pension wouldn't trigger income tax |
| 18:40.34 | Dick_Turpin | xotl, No they fund everything themselves no bank lones or mortgages so it evolves over time |
| 18:40.36 | xotl | Leeds: so is there a pension system or is the culture that the next generation will look after the elder generation? |
| 18:41.14 | xotl | heh, no mortgages, that's better than london |
| 18:41.22 | Leeds | I don't know about current old people, but there's mandatory private pensions here rather than government pensions, for currently-employed people |
| 18:42.12 | Leeds | I'm actually going to pull my money out of my pension here - it's not very much, isn't going to amount to very much in 30 years time, and quite frankly would be better used buying beer :-) |
| 18:42.24 | xotl | there can't be too much difference between a mandatory private pension and a government one |
| 18:42.26 | Dick_Turpin | TBH I cant see how they can join the EU the wages are mega pants and most of the rural areas (That I saw) is medival |
| 18:42.58 | xotl | i have no idea how these eastern european countries can join the eu |
| 18:43.08 | Leeds | xotl: the main difference is that you - or at least your employer - get a choice of a) which institution to use and b) how to allocate the funds |
| 18:43.09 | xotl | i don't really get it |
| 18:43.37 | Dick_Turpin | xotl, I have a personal theory |
| 18:44.04 | xotl | Leeds: that sounds like a better system |
| 18:44.12 | xotl | Dick_Turpin: lets hear it |
| 18:45.03 | xotl | lets say you are in poland and you are in need of some kind of state support. do you choose polish state support or uk state support? hmmm, tough choice that one |
| 18:45.05 | Leeds | the government sets minimum levels, gives a tax credit for it, and otherwise pretty much stays out... it's not as strong a belief as it used to be, but HK is still one of the great world centers of 'small government' |
| 18:45.43 | Dick_Turpin | xotl, While Hitler and Napolean had different reasons they wanted the same thing, a single European country/area the EU is doing the same thing only by much friendlier means |
| 18:46.10 | xotl | Leeds: I am in favour of small government. at least in theory |
| 18:46.52 | xotl | Dick_Turpin: uh, ok. and who is the modern-day napoleon? jacques chirac? |
| 18:47.27 | xotl | what about EU standards as well? how are turkey going to conform to them? or even poland for that matter |
| 18:48.09 | Dick_Turpin | xotl, Possibly the french would love it |
| 18:48.20 | xotl | we need look no further than the french for classic EU hypocitical nonsense |
| 18:48.44 | xotl | the french would love an EU which runs on the french model |
| 18:48.51 | Dick_Turpin | the germans would get a third chance |
| 18:49.21 | Dick_Turpin | the Swiss will mange the money |
| 18:49.22 | xotl | when they see it might actually be running on the US-UK model all of a sudden they are not so keen |
| 18:49.45 | xotl | Dick_Turpin: you mean the Fourth Reich? :-) |
| 18:50.12 | Leeds | and as long as you don't let Turkey in, you keep it a nice White Christian Empire as well |
| 18:50.15 | xotl | and what about french farm subsidies? lol |
| 18:50.33 | Dick_Turpin | xotl, Na I think they've learnt our old method divide and rule |
| 18:50.43 | xotl | depends whether the germans are in charge of racial hygene or not |
| 18:51.01 | Leeds | ooh, aren't we all stereotyping well tonight... |
| 18:51.27 | Dick_Turpin | xotl, Turkey has a high Muslim ratio |
| 18:51.29 | xotl | french and their farm subsidies is not a steriotype |
| 18:51.48 | xotl | Dick_Turpin: I am aware of that |
| 18:51.55 | *** join/#gllug Jasperw (n=jasperw@host81-159-100-166.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:52.19 | xotl | or if it is then the french do a superb job of propagating it |
| 18:52.26 | morsing | Crap |
| 18:52.52 | Leeds | morsing: same to you |
| 18:53.32 | Dick_Turpin | morsing, Wheres the "Nice"? |
| 18:59.47 | *** join/#gllug xotl (n=chatzill@82-35-62-79.cable.ubr04.camd.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:15.03 | Leeds | hmm... late-night conversation on the nature of intimate relationships in one window, with someone in HK... evening conversation about the nature of a good coder with people in Europe in another window... this is confusing |
| 20:16.56 | antiphase | Only if you wank off over code |
| 20:22.02 | Leeds | a... mature conversation... about intimate, not physical, relationships... although the conversation has got a bit lost in discussions of group sex right now |
| 20:23.43 | Leeds | my fault, of course |
| 20:33.37 | rhowe | "Max length of message is 128 characters" |
| 20:33.38 | rhowe | wtf? |
| 20:33.42 | rhowe | That's less than an SMS! |
| 20:33.51 | rhowe | This is from Sky's "General Enquiry" web form |
| 20:34.20 | antiphase | Sounds like an excuse for some hackery ;) |
| 21:14.25 | trousers | Leeds: Little Britain on about now-ish |
| 23:36.02 | rhowe | tidiness? |
| 23:36.18 | rhowe | Either way, not having to tiptoe around is a good thing |