irclog2html for #gllug on 20070108

00:00.01z00daxok, i dont play that
00:00.15trousers_What have you got working?
00:00.37z00daxI play a bit of Enemy Territory
00:00.47trousers_Ah, well that works natively :P
00:00.53z00daxyup
00:00.53trousers_I'm talking Wine/Cedega stuff
00:00.59z00daxI've also got quake4 going
00:01.05z00daxand doom3
00:01.24z00daxhave played a bit of Blitzkreig - but that was about 2 years back, maybe 3
01:21.16Leedstime to go to work...
02:41.31trousers_Ahhh, school today :(
02:41.51trousers_I shouldn't be up this late/early as I know I probably won't stay up the whole day >.<
02:42.05trousers_Unless I invest heavily in some chocolate :P
02:53.39*** join/#gllug PussInBoots (i=PussInBo@gateway/tor/x-7a7835e9d5df5bd0)
02:55.19antiphaseTor is for bummers
02:55.47z00daxI have work to goto later
02:56.00z00daxbut i cant sleep - i am really ill and coughing my interstines up at the momen
03:01.04rhowez00dax: If you're bored, check out my email to Gllug re chip & pin - lots of reading material :)
03:01.30z00daxnot bored really, have a million things that I could be getting on with - one of which is trying to get myself to sleep some
03:01.35z00daxbut i'll look at the email as well
03:10.31trousers_Yay, sleepless friends :)
03:18.58gw280lalala
03:21.25gw280rhowe: ah, the guy who did that tetris hack was talking about it for most of yesterday :)
04:00.06trousers_gw280: Which tetris hack?
04:00.11cpufreakwoo
04:00.15cpufreakwhat a lovely time to be in the office
04:00.23trousers_cpufreak: Ouch :(
04:01.10gw280trousers_: tetris on an "unhackable" chip & pin terminal
04:03.09trousers_gw280: Hehe *Googles*
04:03.37gw280trousers_: the guy who did it did it as a proof-of-concept that chin & pin terminals are shit and a security risk
04:07.14trousers_How is the PIN number verified, is it linked to a database of sorts?
04:07.33gw280the pin is stored in an encrypted form on the chip
04:07.43trousers_Ah, right
04:08.25trousers_Considering that there are only 1000 possibilities, scanning the chip and cracking the PIN number surely shouldn't be difficult?
04:08.38trousers_If you can figure out what encryption it is
04:08.54gw2801000?
04:09.00gw2809999...
04:09.09trousers_Sorry, 10000
04:09.09gw280actually, 10,000
04:09.51trousers_It's still an incredibly small number
04:10.28gw280indeed
04:10.31trousers_And the encryption algorithm must be located in the machine somewhere
04:10.39gw280indeed.
04:10.53gw280http://www.chipandspin.co.uk/
04:11.23trousers_Biometrics, to be honest, are far superior if not more expensive
04:11.52cpufreaknot really
04:11.55gw280hahahahaha
04:11.57cpufreakyou crack a pin and chip machine
04:12.05cpufreakand you can steal peoples money
04:12.32cpufreakyou copy finger prints, or create contacts to simulate peoples retinas, and you can steal people's lives.
04:12.41cpufreaks/contacts/contact lenses/
04:12.55trousers_cpufreak: Sorry, I was under the impression that that was the iris
04:13.00cpufreakiris, retinas
04:13.01cpufreakwhatever
04:13.02cpufreakits 4am
04:13.10cpufreakand yes its easy to crack chip and pin - there was that incident at shell
04:13.16trousers_A retina scan must be bloody hard to replicate
04:13.49cpufreakmy advice, is to advoid shopping at dodgy shops with a credit card
04:14.47gw280money is evil
04:14.50gw280let's revert to communism
04:15.04trousers_gw280: Take your left wing ideals somewhere else :)
04:15.11gw280Hahahahahahahaha
04:15.19gw280that's the first time I've ever been called left wing.
04:15.38trousers_Agh, school this morning :S
04:15.55gw280lol school
04:17.00trousers_You had to go through it all, so sshh
04:17.18gw280yeah, but I slept it all away
04:17.34trousers_Well, quite the opposite here :)
04:17.42gw280it's not as if school is hard
04:18.03gw280:P
04:18.44trousers_Not particularly
04:19.22trousers_Anybody with half a brain could probably do the syllbasses in half the time or less by reading the textbooks
04:19.44gw280I reckon you can teach yourself an entire A level in about 2 days
04:20.23gw280it took me approx. 6 hours to teach myself the material for A level Statistics
04:20.36trousers_Unfortunately, having half a brain isn't common for many sGCSE students
04:20.43trousers_s/sG/G/
04:21.12trousers_gw280: How many modules was that?
04:21.24gw2803
04:21.27gw280A2
04:21.44gw280took a similar amount of time for the AS modules too
04:21.53trousers_So you're telling me you learnt an A2 module in 2 hours?
04:21.56gw280lessons are completely useless
04:21.58gw280trousers_: yes
04:22.06trousers_I'm skeptic, to be honest
04:22.14gw280heh
04:22.19gw280it's not hard
04:22.47trousers_Although I would assume a lot of statistics can be inferred from maths and further maths
04:23.10trousers_But learning something like biology A level in that time seems a lot less likely
04:23.21gw280further maths required slightly more time per module
04:23.28gw280physics was about 3-4 hours per module
04:23.40gw280computing AS took about 1 hour
04:24.02trousers_So you learnt the whole syllabus before the end of the first week, and then you did what? :)
04:24.07gw280no
04:24.12gw280I learnt them the night before the exam
04:24.23gw280much easier way of doing things
04:24.37trousers_Didn't you begin to panic at all?
04:24.40gw280no
04:25.01trousers_And isn't that effectively just last minute revision, assuming you attended the lessons?
04:25.22gw280we didn't really have lessons for statistics at least
04:25.33gw280and I didn't have any lessons for computing at all
04:25.54trousers_What did you achieve for computing?
04:25.54gw280we had something like 5 or 6 40 minute lessons for stats, and all we ever did was talk :D
04:25.57gw280A
04:26.19gw280I got the top grade in everything except RS at GCSE and STEP Maths I
04:26.29trousers_It seems you're oversimplifying A level, from what I hear from other people --- it's rather hellish
04:26.35gw280hahahhaahahahahah
04:26.48gw280have you SEEN A-level?
04:26.54trousers_To be honest, no
04:27.00gw280A level physics is a joke
04:27.08gw280as is A level maths
04:27.16gw280A level further maths is slightly less of a joke
04:27.40trousers_We're doing C1... Extremely slowly, and I seem to be the only one in the class paying attention and answering the questions -_-
04:27.46gw280C1?
04:27.52gw280our teachers didn't even bother to teach us C1
04:28.12trousers_You all knew differentiation and integration?
04:28.15gw280yes
04:28.24gw280and it's hardly difficult differentiation and integration
04:28.31gw280"woo differentiate 4x^2"
04:28.41gw280we had all done additional maths in the GCSE year
04:28.49trousers_Ah, fair enough, then
04:28.52gw280so we did C3 and C4 mainly in the lower sixth
04:29.07gw280admittedly, my lowest module mark for any pure module was in C1
04:29.20trousers_I was under the impression that C1 was the easiest module
04:29.26gw280if we don't count the further maths pure modules
04:29.29gw280C1 is a joke
04:29.48gw280I lost the marks because I couldn't be bothered to learn all that arithmetic progression crap :P
04:30.06trousers_Hmm
04:30.18gw280to be fair, AS Maths is easier than Additional Maths
04:30.23trousers_Why *are* you awake?
04:30.45gw280Additional Maths covers most of the stuff in C1, C2 and some stuff in C3, C4, and covers topics from M1, D1..
04:30.52gw280I'm always awake around about now.
04:31.04trousers_Have you slept yet?
04:31.07gw280no
04:31.14trousers_You sleep when?
04:31.20gw2805 or 6 am
04:31.23gw280sometimes 8 am
04:31.25trousers_Ah, right
04:31.32gw280sometimes noon
04:31.32trousers_And when you had to attend school?
04:31.33gw280depends
04:31.34gw280really
04:31.38gw280erm
04:31.50gw280with school I'd go to bed around 5, get up again for lessons around 9, go back to bed after lunch
04:31.57gw280sleep during lessons too
04:32.06gw280but that was a while ago
04:32.13trousers_Less than a year, no?
04:32.31gw280about 8 months
04:33.11trousers_Okay, so how did you teach yourself everything, textbook reading again?
04:33.25gw280not really
04:33.34gw280grab past exam papers, read up on wikipedia
04:33.34trousers_How then?
04:33.47gw280or just digest the textbook if I could be bothered
04:33.49trousers_Hmm, past exam papers don't dictate the future
04:33.52gw280so?
04:34.02gw280and also trawl through the syllabus
04:34.07gw280and read up on everything
04:34.19gw280I tended to know stuff to a higher standard than was required for A level because of that anyway
04:34.20trousers_Wikipedia is indeed helpful, if not overly helpful
04:34.40gw280computing AS I just digested the textbook
04:34.43gw280skim read through it
04:35.26gw280I found my workload decreased about 10-fold going from GCSEs to AS levels
04:35.40trousers_Due to less subjects, mainly?
04:35.45gw280yes
04:35.53gw280and the fact that AS isn't really much of a step up from GCSE
04:36.04trousers_I still don't understand how English GCSE proves anything
04:36.19gw280English GCSE was a joke.
04:36.34gw280the biggest joke has to be French GCSE though
04:36.41trousers_I do German
04:36.47gw280the GCSEs I found the most challenging were Classical Greek and Latin
04:37.02trousers_I've heard that they are indeed difficult
04:37.15gw280mainly because the classics department at my school was crazy and chose all the really hard options for us to do, such as translating Plato from the original greek.
04:37.45gw280I got a B in RS because I couldn't be bothered :D
04:38.20gw280I feel sorry for you though because when you come to apply to university they might actually know your module marks
04:38.34gw280which means you've got to do well in the marks instead of just doing what I did which was to do the bare minimum required to get an A
04:38.48gw280although Cambridge did ask me for all my AS module marks
04:39.03gw280hrmm.. and my A2 for that matter
04:39.23trousers_So you got 9 A*s and one B at GCSE?
04:39.30gw280yes
04:40.01trousers_Hmm, why the B in RS though, you don't *really* need to know much. I blagged my mock and got an A*
04:40.16gw280because I deem RS to be a pointless subject and took the piss in the exam
04:40.19trousers_I'm rather irritated that I got a C in my English mock though, due to my writing being "illegible"
04:40.24gw280I refuse to acknowledge RS as a serious subject.
04:40.54gw280oh yeah, and all my courseworks were graded C or something equally gash
04:41.23trousers_Is this courseworks in general?
04:41.26gw280no, RS
04:41.32gw280I got a B in my computing AS coursework though
04:41.41trousers_I assume you didn't do DT :)
04:41.44gw280http://gwright.org.uk/coursework.pdf
04:42.06gw280self-teaching a massive coursework project and doing it 4 days before it's due in at the exam board is a bad idea.
04:42.26trousers_LaTeX :)
04:42.34gw280indeed
04:42.44gw280word processors are the lose.
04:42.53trousers_Sorry, is "Assinging turkeys" serious?
04:42.56gw280yes
04:43.06trousers_It just seemed rather silly :P
04:43.09gw280it was the topic set by the exam board for that year
04:43.50gw280I wonder how many other people in the country wrote a full C++ GUI application with an XML configuration backend.
04:44.00gw280(yay Qt)
04:44.46trousers_I really need to teach myself C++ and the whole object oriented thing
04:44.53gw280that coursework's really gash anyway
04:44.57trousers_Procedural languages :D
04:45.17gw280the app was coded in about 4 hours and I did lots of quick hacks just to get it "out the door" as quickly as possible
04:45.34gw280"OH COCK I HAVE A FUCK OFF COURSEWORK TO DO IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS"
04:46.07trousers_I see you are a Red Dwarf fan, also :)
04:46.14gw280indeed
04:46.23trousers_I happen to use Red Dwarf as the naming scheme for my machines :D
04:46.32gw280I use the elements.
04:46.39trousers_I noticed
04:46.59trousers_I might give Qt a go whilst learning C++
04:47.04gw280Qt is so easy
04:47.14gw280C++ is nice but I'm starting to get a bit annoyed with it
04:47.30gw280it's very easy to fuck yourself over wrt pointers in C/C++
04:47.37trousers_I assume once you get basic concepts, coding is fairly straightforward
04:47.51gw280indeed.
04:47.51trousers_wrt pointers?
04:47.55gw280yes
04:48.01gw280if you lose track of pointers all hell breaks loose
04:48.01trousers_Pray tell?
04:48.04gw280of that's what I've found.
04:48.05trousers_Ah, right
04:48.10gw280s/of/or
04:48.32gw280I'm assuming you know what a pointer is
04:48.37trousers_Indeed
04:48.43gw280at least you don't have to deal with ML.
04:48.50gw280http://gwright.org.uk/foo2.ml
04:48.52gw280I coded that yesterday
04:48.54gw280it's horrible.
04:48.55trousers_ML? Ah.
04:49.08gw280bonus points if you can tell me what it does
04:49.12trousers_By the way, does your server have no directory structure? :P
04:49.14gw280(very badly and inefficiently, I might add)
04:49.48trousers_I assume it's some sort of random coin flipper
04:49.53gw280er
04:51.34*** join/#gllug ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
04:51.34*** topic/#gllug is Greater London LUG - http://www.gllug.org.uk | http://planet.gllug.org.uk
04:51.39gw280it generates a lazy list of successive lists of the order [], [0], [1], [0,0], [0,1], [1,0], [1,1], [0,0,0], [0,0,1] etc.
04:51.40trousers_Hello ibot
04:51.49trousers_A lazy list?
04:51.50gw280ML is a functional language.
04:52.04gw280lazy list = list where each element is computed on demand from the previous element
04:52.16trousers_Ah, right
04:53.52gw280http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/tripos/y2003p1q5.pdf
04:53.53gw280that's the question
04:53.58gw280the code does parts d) and e)
04:55.48trousers_Fair enouhg
04:55.54trousers_s/hg/gh/
04:56.08gw280it's probably an overconvoluted way of doing it
04:56.11gw280but I don't care
04:56.12trousers_ibot: Where did you go?
04:56.13ibotto hell and back. Saddam says "hi".
04:56.18trousers_Ouch.
04:56.57trousers_gw280: I assume the marks are awarded for functional, rather than efficient, code
04:57.04gw280trousers_: both.
04:57.11gw280trousers_: efficiency is very importnat
04:57.13gw280important
04:57.28trousers_But how efficient is ML?
04:57.34gw280we get marked down if we start to hit exponential complexity
04:57.41gw280trousers_: er, that's irrelevant at this point
04:58.01trousers_Fine
04:58.15gw280trousers_: we're expected to design efficient algorithms. For example, a recursive algorithm which calls itself three times with each sucessive step is obviously crap.
04:59.00gw280whereas if you can hit log(n) efficiency you're doing quite well
04:59.22trousers_n being what?
04:59.25gw280where n = number of steps to perform a task... so, say, if you want to search through a sorted list
04:59.28gw280of length n
04:59.45gw280then you could either traverse through the list from the beginning until you find the value
04:59.52gw280that's n efficiency as it takes a maximum of n steps
05:00.13gw280or you can use a binary search which starts at the middle then keeps recursing through successive halves of the list until it finds the item, which is log(n)
05:01.34trousers_I assume that works by searching, discarding etc. which can result in time saving?
05:01.48gw280it starts at the middle of the list
05:02.07gw280if the item to be found is higher than the middle, then it discards the lower half then recurses to the middle of the top half
05:02.22gw280and so with each step you're dividing the input data by 2 which means it's log(n)
05:02.44trousers_How does it know where the item is unless it searches one whole half?
05:02.45gw280that was one of the questions in my interview actually
05:02.51gw280one of the only questions I actually aced
05:02.59gw280?
05:03.06gw280you take a list of sorted data..
05:03.18gw280you check the middle value...
05:03.23gw280compare it to what you're searching for
05:03.24trousers_Ah, it's sorted, okay
05:03.39gw280yes, I did actually say that :P
05:03.56trousers_So you did :(
05:04.13gw280it's still quicker to sort the data first and then binary search in a lot of cases than to traverse through the list mindlessly
05:04.29trousers_I was getting confused assuming it was sorted randomly :)
05:04.35gw280er
05:04.37gw280ok.
05:04.56gw280http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Teaching/current/FoundsCS/slides.pdf
05:04.59gw280it's all covered in there
05:05.07gw280in lecture 3
05:05.10gw280O notation
05:05.18trousers_Where *do* you pluck all these PDFs from?
05:05.29gw280?
05:05.36gw280how do you think I pass exams?
05:06.10trousers_I wasn't entirely sure :)
05:06.57gw280heh
05:07.32gw280next term I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to hijack the CL library
05:07.39trousers_CL?
05:07.42gw280with a german friend
05:07.44gw280computer lab
05:08.05trousers_And do what with the library?
05:08.09gw280work in it
05:08.14trousers_Ah, right
05:08.16gw2802+ hours per day
05:08.25gw280http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_University_Computer_Laboratory
05:08.35gw280best. department. ever.
05:09.15trousers_Hehe, TRIPOS is an operating system :)
05:09.20gw280yes
05:09.25gw280"Trivially Portable Operating System"
05:13.23gw280the CL is a lovely building :D
05:13.32gw280it's also huuuugggeeeee
05:13.34trousers_It looks it
05:13.40trousers_Is your campus near to it?
05:13.45gw2802 miles
05:13.46gw280if that's near
05:13.49gw280about 5 minutes on a bike
05:14.38gw280btw, on http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Teaching/current/FoundsCS/slides.pdf
05:14.43gw280take a look at the table on page 26
05:14.55gw280that demonstrates the need for efficient algorithms, in case you didn't know
05:16.37trousers_That looks like LaTeX, too
05:16.46gw280it is
05:16.54trousers_Hmm funky, cheers
05:17.53gw280it basically says "if you have a shit algorithm that's of efficiency 2^n that can do 9 units of processing, then if you increase the computer power by 60x then it can still only do 15 units of data"
05:19.23trousers_Yes, I see
05:20.42gw280indeed
05:22.47gw280hrmm
05:27.28trousers_gw280: Do you have any idea how pi is calculated apart from drawing circles?
05:27.59gw280yes
05:28.03trousers_...
05:28.04gw280using an infinite series
05:28.14trousers_Hmm?
05:28.56trousers_What infinite series and how?
05:28.57gw280pi/4 is something like 1-1/3+1/5-1/7+1/9-...
05:29.23trousers_Ah, right
05:29.38trousers_I seem to remember seeing that somewhere, actually
05:29.54gw280you can prove it using a Taylor series expansion of one of the trig functions iirc
05:31.25trousers_To Wikipedia, Batman!
05:32.02trousers_I'll read it later :)
05:32.43gw280ah yes
05:32.44gw280it's a taylor series expansion of arctan about x = 1
05:32.53gw280as arctan(1) = pi/4
05:34.14gw280e is done in much the same way
05:34.36gw280in fact, one of my first assignments was to code a function that approximated e
05:48.58trousers_Assignments at Cambridge, is this?
05:49.24gw280yes
05:49.44gw280it was a four or five line function
05:50.23trousers_Funky
05:56.10trousers_Hmm, it works, I just wrote a little function to approximate pi
05:56.48trousers_Well, a little program that can be written as a void function :)
06:21.50trousers_But it's rather inefficient
07:16.39*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n219076246057.netvigator.com)
07:53.57morsingLeeds!
08:02.57*** join/#gllug SlayerXP (n=martin@gw-colt.fotango.com)
08:07.10morsingSlayerXP!
08:10.18SlayerXPyo
08:16.03Leedsafternoon folks
08:17.47morsingLeeds!
08:54.17sabinef72morning
08:54.23sabinef72morsing !!!!!!!!!
08:55.14morsingsabinef72!
08:55.30sabinef72what's up ?
08:55.40morsingNot much...
09:15.05morsingsabinef72: How are you?
09:20.43sabinef72stress
09:23.05morsing:(
09:23.14morsingI'm sad and depressed. Nice :(
09:26.11Leedsmorsing: so, I manage to catch Amanda online last night... only to be told she's hooked up with a guy I met a couple of weeks back... which makes 3 nights in a row seeing someone go off with someone else
09:26.31antiphaseYou'll have to go gay
09:29.53*** part/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n219076246057.netvigator.com)
09:30.41morsingNice
09:30.45morsingLeeds?
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09:49.17morsinggoibhniu!
09:51.16goibhniumorsing!
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10:17.57morsingChris-!
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10:26.39morsingflips_and_rails!
10:29.24JAVgood morning
10:31.23morsingJAV!
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11:00.50morsingphearless!
11:02.17phearlessmor{s|n}ing !
11:32.33cpufreakhttp://www.nurburgring.org.uk/benlovejoy/opinions/globalwarming/ # worth a read, especially if you're a stupid hippy
11:32.54goibhniuhttp://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Morsing
11:41.00goibhniucpufreak: chin
11:42.30cpufreakchin?
11:45.39morsingHow do I find out how much free space is available to exxtend a soft partition?
11:48.06morsingHello?
11:48.57SlayerXPwhat's a soft partition?
11:50.11cpufreakdoes he mean how much space is left in a volume group or something?
11:50.48antiphaseThere is plenty of space in his head
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12:21.52dick_turpinAfternoon all
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13:07.32*** part/#gllug dick_turpin (n=peterc@host217-34-163-21.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
13:10.20morsinggoibhniu: Why did you delete the article?
13:12.06goibhniu:'(      Codeine huffed "Morsing"  (1.B Not funny for sober people. Read HTBFANJS.)
13:13.05morsingibot HTBFANJS
13:13.12morsinggoibhniu: It was funny though :)
13:13.27goibhniuI even read "How To Be Funny And Not Just Stupid" and I'm not drunk so I must be double stupid
13:14.15goibhniuI thought it was gonna catch on .. I was designing t-shirts in my mind
13:15.02morsingNice
13:15.29goibhniumorsing: thanks for the support
13:16.18*** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=peterc@host217-34-163-21.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
13:20.39*** join/#gllug mikejw (n=mikejw@85-210-7-188.dsl.pipex.com)
13:21.30morsingmikejw!
13:21.33morsingdick_turpin!
13:26.25mikejwhey lo
13:27.21morsingmikejw: How are you?
13:28.58mikejwok thanks
13:29.26mikejwgradually moving towards stability I think
13:30.40morsingIn what way?
13:32.09mikejwin terms of eating, sleeping, working etc
13:33.18morsingOk
13:33.53mikejw:)
13:46.50dick_turpinmorsing:
13:47.09morsingWhat's up?
13:47.27dick_turpinNothing just like saying your name :-)
13:48.32*** join/#gllug livingdaylight (n=conrad@82-45-173-207.cable.ubr03.camd.blueyonder.co.uk)
13:49.19livingdaylighthello world
13:50.04morsinglivingdaylight!
13:50.12livingdaylighthi morsing
13:50.29livingdaylightjust stumbled into gllug
13:50.35morsingNice
13:50.38livingdaylight^^
13:50.48morsingYou  can leave by the door on the left
13:50.51livingdaylightwondering when the next event/meetup will be
13:50.51morsing:)
13:51.20morsinglivingdaylight: I am the channel greeter!
13:51.32livingdaylightnice
13:51.52livingdaylightnothing like coming into a channel and finding endless silence
13:53.12livingdaylightdo you know when the next meetup will be?
13:57.11livingdaylighti don't see anything on the website about this. The last meet was December 7? Anything planned for January/February?
13:58.37morsingI don't anything else has been planned
13:58.39morsingYet
14:00.47livingdaylightJanuary the month of recovery?
14:02.06livingdaylighti've just subscribed to mailing list announcing events, so....
14:02.24morsingSubscribe to social events as well
14:02.32morsinggoibhniu?
14:02.40morsingmikejw?
14:20.06dick_turpingoibhniu: Is that some bread of dog?
14:22.13goibhniuit's more like a chinese version of irish stew so I guess you could add dog to it, but I'm all out
14:23.08dick_turpingoibhniu: I've got a bag of Kittens that was due for the alter if you like?
14:24.44goibhniuthanks, I'm more of a dog person myself and besides we don't want to anger the gods any more
14:24.46morsinglivingdaylight: Run while you can
14:25.25livingdaylightmorsing, huh? who is chasing?
14:25.38dick_turpingoibhniu: I think the last minion I threw on the fire appeased them, my webser is back up
14:26.11dick_turpinwebserver
14:26.26morsinglivingdaylight: These people are mad
14:27.31livingdaylightmorsing, if you can't beat 'em join them
14:27.38dick_turpinmorsing: The voice in my head said you are a broken machine and must be fixed :-)
14:29.40dick_turpinboudiccas:
14:31.30dick_turpingoibhniu: That flier I sent you is going out as we speak
14:35.08wethrinpropan-2-ol
14:35.58morsingwethrin!
14:36.08goibhniucan I run xp with qemu straight from it's partition or do I really have to do all that installation shenanigans?
14:36.19wethrinmorsing!
14:38.28dick_turpinwethrin: :-)
14:40.17wethrindick_turpin!
14:42.20dick_turpinVoodoo curse anyone? made a fresh batch this morning
14:42.55wethrinI liked Voodoos!
14:42.58wethrinPity they don't make them
14:44.31dick_turpinwethrin: Make what?
14:45.21wethrinVoodoos!
14:45.38wethrin3dfx
14:45.46dick_turpinwethrin: Lol
14:48.15morsingdick_turpin: Curse Dan West pleasae
14:48.19morsingplease
14:48.40dick_turpinmorsing: Who is he? Not that I care
14:49.24morsingMy ex-manager from Camelot
14:49.37morsingHe's the reason I had to leave my dream job
14:50.10dick_turpinmorsing: Care to clarify?
14:50.21morsingClarify what?
14:51.19dick_turpinmorsing: Why you had to go
14:52.12morsingHe hated me from the second week I was there
14:52.31dick_turpinmorsing: I cant think why :-P
14:53.16antiphaseLikelwise
14:54.20dick_turpinmorsing: I curse Dan West, "May the seed of your loins bear fruit in the womb of your secretary" (I bet his wife will love that?)
14:57.08morsingdick_turpin: His wife hates him
14:57.22morsingHe threatened her wife a knife once
14:57.31morsings/wife/with/
14:57.45morsingHe's insane
14:58.41*** mode/#gllug [+o morsing] by ChanServ
14:58.42dick_turpinmorsing: Hm this may take some thought then, I'll sit in a star with five black candles and think about it
15:02.17morsingMy colleague just told me I am "random"?
15:02.24wethrinAren't you?
15:02.34morsingSlightly ;-)
15:03.19mikejwmorsing?
15:04.36wethrinmikejw!
15:04.43wethrinGot any response from computing societies yet?
15:05.28dick_turpinmorsing: When I get home I'll did out a link to a Blog where this guy is bitching about a company/CEO who stitched him up, you'll like it
15:07.06morsinghanks
15:08.07wethrinhankts?
15:09.06morsinghantks
15:09.29dick_turpingoibhniu:
15:12.20mikejwwethrin: I'm afraid not :[
15:12.31wethrinBah to them!
15:12.37mikejwI have however got an interesting podcast for you to listen to...
15:12.51wethrinmmm?
15:12.52*** join/#gllug LeedsHK (n=richardc@210.245.153.200)
15:12.53mikejwhttp://www.mikejw.co.uk/ai-em/hoorayforsex/
15:12.59wethrinriiight....
15:13.01wethrinLeedsHK!
15:13.05dick_turpinLeedsHK:
15:13.16LeedsHKhmm... left gaim connected at work
15:13.18mikejwit's about music
15:13.21LeedsHKevening all
15:13.26mikejwsupposedely
15:13.33mikejwLeedsHK: hey duder :D
15:13.36dick_turpinLeedsHK: Twonk
15:14.10LeedsHKdick_turpin: love you too
15:14.35mikejw*supposedly
15:14.57dick_turpinLeedsHK: I thought it was me who made silly mistakes?
15:15.40LeedsHKI'm allowed to make one in a year, I think
15:15.57morsingLeedsHK!
15:16.50LeedsHKso I left my laptop closed, and on its back, to let the vents on the bottom breath...  this is the laptop which is capable of overheating and shutting down in a cool room with 0% CPU use...
15:17.04wethrinToo much dust?
15:17.24LeedsHKcome back to find it's still on my bed, with the vents pointing upwards... but the cleaner has made the bed on top of it, so it's nice and warm under a duvet!
15:17.38wethrinA cleaner? Very posh.
15:17.48mikejw:D
15:18.00LeedsHKnot as posh as my last place...
15:18.01dick_turpinLeedsHK: Arn't there laws against sleeping with your Laptop in HK?
15:18.24LeedsHKdick_turpin: no, there are not... /me praises small government
15:18.54dick_turpinLeedsHK: Oor, whatever floats your boat I suppose
15:19.06*** join/#gllug IAmAI (n=iamai@user-544139bb.l6.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk)
15:20.54LeedsHKapparently the second life client has been released under the gplv2
15:21.23*** join/#gllug Provito (n=Provito@80-193-56-44.cable.ubr06.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk)
15:21.42morsingProvito!
15:26.12*** join/#gllug Jasperw (n=jasperw@host86-142-239-100.range86-142.btcentralplus.com)
15:26.38morsingJasperw!
15:27.48dick_turpinmorsing:
15:30.11dick_turpinmorsing: I found that blog http://liviudm.wordpress.com/ and you thought you had it bad
15:30.14goibhniucheeseburgers?
15:30.43goibhniuhey LeedsHK .. how's work?
15:31.07LeedsHKgoibhniu: hey... it's good - been messing around on your servers all day :-)
15:31.24goibhniumikejw: I will listen ... sometime this week
15:31.45LeedsHKgoibhniu: did notice a directory apparently named after you on the dev server
15:31.49goibhniumikejw: you also a marvin suicide fan?
15:32.48goibhniuLeedsHK: hey you weren't on #oxfam!
15:33.36goibhniuLeedsHK: which server? oxdev01?
15:37.49mikejwgoibhniu: cool thanks for listening
15:37.54mikejwmarvin suicide?
15:39.51goibhniuhttp://www.marvinsuicide.org/ from resonance fm ... plays the cream of freely available (often creative commons) music from the net pipes
15:42.34mikejwcoolio :D
15:45.50*** part/#gllug dick_turpin (n=peterc@host217-34-163-21.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
15:48.22mikejwsome of my friends were guests on a resonance show recently
15:51.44*** join/#gllug tripitaka (n=tripitak@83.217.101.115)
15:53.23morsingtripitaka!
15:53.40tripitakaHello morsing
15:53.52morsingHow are you?
15:54.06tripitakavery well, thank you
15:54.41LeedsHKgoibhniu: didn't know there was an #oxfam :-)  and, yeah, I think that was the machine
15:58.24*** join/#gllug Jasper1 (n=jasperw@host217-44-126-161.range217-44.btcentralplus.com)
16:01.09morsingJasper1!
16:03.20goibhniuLeedsHK: #oxfam is pretty quiet but widely endorsed, e.g. the project managers are quite familiar with it
16:03.43goibhniuLeedsHK: you may be vaguely interested in http://www.archive.org/details.php?identifier=plone2006-confessions-of-an-ngo
16:04.47LeedsHKfor what it's worth, I don't exist in any particularly concrete form
16:08.31morsingNice
16:14.08trousers_Afternoon
16:15.03haliso is anyone going to flag&bell?
16:15.15morsingI'm not. Is it tonight?
16:15.21morsingtrousers_!
16:15.25halitomorrow
16:15.30halii think
16:15.45morsingCan't do tomorrow. Meeting the one and only Paul Rundle
16:16.09halii always plan to go to everything then i just forget in the end!
16:16.11haliso annoying
16:16.23morsingTypical norwegian people
16:16.32halii need a secretary
16:16.37haliwhos norwegian?!
16:16.42morsingYou?!
16:16.45haliam i?
16:16.46halinooo
16:16.47haliim Swedish
16:16.52morsingSame thing
16:16.55halibastard
16:17.01morsing:)
16:17.06halithey have oil and are rude... we are nice but don't have oil
16:17.14haligive and take
16:17.20LeedsHKbra
16:17.33morsingMmm... Bra
16:33.42halimycket bra
17:03.37*** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=peterc@host217-34-163-21.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
17:07.53dick_turpinboudiccas:
17:11.52boudiccasdick_turpin; yea verily :o)
17:11.52*** part/#gllug dick_turpin (n=peterc@host217-34-163-21.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
17:12.17LeedsHKhow zen
17:12.46boudiccaswas it something i said :))))
17:13.06LeedsHKguess he doesn't like people agreeing with nothing he said
17:13.50boudiccaslol
17:20.39halianyone good with java and heap tuning? like a way to tune eden and the survivor spaces?
17:21.10LeedsHKhali: talk Swedish... would make more sense to me than that question :-)
17:21.18LeedsHKwell, the second part, anyway
17:23.04hali:)
17:23.12halijava and memory is _weird_
17:23.21halilike new generation, young generation and old generation heap space
17:23.32LeedsHKsounds like the old DOS memory problems
17:23.48halithen each space has "sub spaces" ... eden is where things should be (hence the name) and if it's pushed out it goes it to survivor space 1 and 2... *sigh*
17:24.18halitrying to tune this annoying weblogic problem i have
17:24.49LeedsHKoh that... haven't looked at that since I had to demo the Linux version running on Solaris
17:25.01*** join/#gllug PussInBoots (i=PussInBo@gateway/tor/x-f69df41bf8262a4a)
17:37.19tripitakahmm. anyone here tried running msn messenger through squid?
17:41.21*** join/#gllug Jasperw (n=jasperw@host81-129-104-221.range81-129.btcentralplus.com)
17:54.01morsingJasperw!
18:08.47*** join/#gllug eyore (n=eeyore@84-43-28-203.ppp.onetel.net.uk)
18:11.06morsingCan anyone play this?
18:11.07morsinghttp://www.morsing.cc/photos/Kings_Langley_Carnival_Parade/movies/DSCF1082.AVI
18:15.36goibhniumorsing: sure
18:15.44morsingNo codec error?
18:15.49morsingStrange
18:16.35goibhniunope, you wanna see what mplayer says about it?
18:18.04goibhniuwell it just says it's an avi really
18:18.12morsingIt should be...
18:18.19goibhniu<PROTECTED>
18:18.41goibhniuSelected audio codec: [pcm] afm: pcm (Uncompressed PCM)
18:18.47morsingWindows media player can't play it but I have 8 other movies taken on the same camera at the same time (day)
18:18.51morsingAnd they work fine
18:19.20goibhniutbh it's a little boring
18:19.24goibhniu:D
18:19.32morsingUhmm... Thanks
18:19.40goibhniushiney though!
18:19.40morsingIT was fun though
18:19.45morsingShiney?
18:20.18goibhniuyeah, all that sunshine bouncing off those polished cars
18:20.30morsing:)
18:21.49goibhniuvlc would probably play it on windows
18:22.21morsingI just installed MPlayer on windows and it works
18:22.23morsingWeird
18:23.06goibhniuwell, hardly that weird .. it is windows media player we're talking about here
18:23.15morsing:)
18:27.12trousers_Hmm, that's strange, after a long awaited reboot, my wifi module doesn't work any more :(
18:27.46morsingNice
18:37.40*** join/#gllug IAmAI (n=iamai@user-544139bb.l6.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk)
18:39.32morsingIAmAI!
18:39.57IAmAImorsing!
18:40.02morsingHow do I ask cal when easter is?
18:40.53IAmAIDunno.
18:41.02LeedsHKrtfm
18:41.21morsingLeedsHK: You're the manual
18:44.53*** join/#gllug murb (n=murbix@blue.danu.be) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
18:46.12morsingF****** it's ncal, not cal!
18:56.53*** join/#gllug secretlondon (i=ac9f2bec@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-eac4d73d4491c43b)
18:58.42secretlondonhi
19:00.37goibhniuhey secretlondon!
19:00.53goibhniuLeedsHK: that's interesting about the gpl second life viewer
19:01.58secretlondonthere a gpl one? last time i looked it was a binary only linux client..
19:02.14goibhniuwhat would be nice though is a bridge to other virtual worlds, like croquet
19:02.15*** join/#gllug IAmAI (n=iamai@user-544139bb.l6.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk)
19:03.01goibhniusecretlondon: as of today I believe
19:03.51goibhniulast I heard their linux client could only be used in their sandbox type testing world
19:04.46secretlondonah - so only on preview
19:04.55secretlondonits cool if they have gpled it
19:06.37goibhniuyeah, no messing around with silly licences
19:10.11goibhniustill, if the internet was owned by mozilla.org ... just having the open source client wouldn't really cut the mustard
19:10.17secretlondonwell they'd previously had everything closerd source and a massive binary including all the libs
19:10.38goibhniubut it's good marketing for gpl
19:10.51secretlondonit still updates too frequently to package the thing tho - like every 2 weeks there is a new client
19:11.02secretlondonthe windows client is also gpled?
19:11.14goibhniuI guess
19:11.36eyorewill it be GPL that can be locked up with DRM edition or GPLv3 :)
19:12.11goibhniuwell since gpl3 isn't out yet it isn't being used by anyone afaik
19:12.26secretlondonhmm - my evil plan to set the default web browser on the net cafe to firefox seems to have stuck on this machine ;)
19:12.35eyoreI know, i'm bored and was tryign to see if i could trigger an argument :)
19:13.16goibhniueyore: but the gpl3 is the bomb and you're stupid so there
19:13.23eyoreta
19:13.30goibhniuthe hurd forever!
19:13.51secretlondonbeastie!
19:14.09eyorelong live VMS
19:15.10wethrinsecretlondon!
19:16.32secretlondonwethrin!
19:16.52wethrinWhat evenings are you generally busy?
19:17.20secretlondonwethrin: tues and thurs are college days
19:17.52wethrinRight. Still fancy doing a server move? morsing should be around to move his server at the same time
19:19.05secretlondonwethrin: yes, thats fine
19:19.11wethrinHurrah!
19:20.34morsinghttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6235751.stm
19:20.37morsingRubbish
19:21.08wethrinThinking of morsing....
19:22.35morsingHuh?
19:22.49wethrinserver moves!
19:23.22morsingOh yes
19:23.37morsingAre the buildings far apart?
19:23.59morsingI was thinking of driving there...
19:24.23morsingwethrin: Are you arranging with BlueLinux and Exonetric?
19:25.18wethrinThey're in the same vague area
19:25.56wethrinUmm.....I think it might be better if you arrange the server removals, given you're actually going to be there
19:26.18wethrinI'll let Bluelinux know I still want their colo, and someone else will be bringing my machine
19:27.11*** join/#gllug clive-h (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk)
19:27.17morsingclive-h!
19:27.26morsingclive-h: Nice to see you today
19:27.26clive-hhi there morsing
19:27.30clive-hand you
19:27.43morsingclive-h: That's unusual
19:27.57morsingSomeone thinking it's nice to see me here...
19:28.32clive-his it, why so?
19:28.37wethrinIt's always nice to see you, morsing!
19:28.47wethrinbetter in the pub than on computer, though
19:35.17morsingwethrin: Oh thanks :')  I'm crying now :)
19:35.31wethrinWhy doesn't my NAT work?
19:35.37morsingCheck it!
19:35.49wethrinI did. Can't see why not!
19:36.04wethrinIt was working when I turned the firewall off!
19:41.51goibhniumikejw: funny podcast! nice one!
19:42.50*** join/#gllug Dick_Turpin (n=Dick_Tur@dsl82-163-112-79.as15444.net)
19:42.55goibhniuuh oh!
19:43.17morsingDick_Turpin!
19:43.28Dick_Turpingoibhniu, I'm doing two curses for the price of one
19:43.48Dick_Turpinmorsing, baby
19:44.38goibhniuoh cool .. can you please curse that evil person for wethrin again and erm ... some random mac user
19:45.23morsingTwoSheds' a random mac userr
19:45.26Dick_Turpingoibhniu, You hate Mac? I've only ever messed with one at PC World
19:45.54goibhniuyes TwoSheds .. he'll do fine
19:46.14secretlondongoibhniu: http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/valleywag/linden-labs-to-open-source-second-life-software-226981.php
19:46.15Dick_Turpinmorsing, Is TwoSheds on this channel?
19:46.36goibhniuDick_Turpin: hate is a strong word ... I wouldn't use it lightly ... yes I hate mac
19:46.41secretlondontheres a catch of course - they decide which community additions to accept into the client
19:46.53secretlondonso we're just doing free dev for them
19:46.55Dick_Turpingoibhniu, Why?
19:47.19goibhniusecretlondon: isn't that the way it always works? surely it can always be forked?
19:47.54goibhniuDick_Turpin: because I've seen it take the souls of 3 members of my family
19:48.27secretlondongoibhniu: but they have the server grid - they haven't released that side of it
19:48.47secretlondoni guess someone could reverse engineer it and set up a home brew grid
19:49.21Dick_Turpingoibhniu, By the power undubanigoo I curse Mac with $%£**" !!
19:49.52goibhniuDick_Turpin: they're zombies ... really, brain eating, walking dead zombies .. they focus all their attention on white things and words that begin with i
19:50.25Dick_Turpingoibhniu, "Its a Zombie and you cant kill a Zombie" :-)
19:50.45goibhniusecretlondon: yeah, that's the catch alright
19:51.13andrew__hi there
19:51.20Dick_Turpingoibhniu, My daughters have iPods are they lost?
19:51.39goibhniuDick_Turpin: I'm sorry to hear that
19:52.18goibhniuperhaps if you kill the head zombie ... sometimes that works but it's no guarantee
19:53.08Dick_Turpingoibhniu, Zombies are good for us Voodoo guys they can deliver all sorts of nasties
19:53.29wethrinI like Macs!
19:53.39clive-hi like macs
19:53.47goibhniuit's true ... I was just wondering if cursing zombies might actually make them more powerful
19:53.58goibhniueeks!
19:54.01wethrinA Mac's my primary machine
19:54.10goibhniuthey're popping up all over the place now!
19:54.20Dick_Turpingoibhniu, :-)
19:55.47clive-hi do that too sometimes using vmware
19:56.11Dick_TurpinI only use VMware its so cool
19:56.25goibhniuit's difficult though, in some ways windows is a more open platform because you can choose your own hardware ... yet mac steal whatever they can from floss and put some polish on it so everyone thinks it's cool like linux
19:56.31clive-hon my new pc i'll use linux kvm
19:56.57Dick_Turpinclive-h, Thats the new vm int it?
19:57.04clive-hyeah
19:57.17clive-hnew pc is amd atheron 64 x2
19:57.27clive-hshould work well with it
19:57.58Dick_TurpinI've tried to get xen (is it?) working on this SuSE box but it all went horribly wrong
19:58.30clive-hi use xen under fedora/centos happily enough
19:58.39Dick_TurpinI know where I am with VMware and I have VM-Server which was free
19:58.46clive-htried openvz too
19:59.24clive-hyeah server is good for free software
19:59.55Dick_TurpinTBH theres V little differance from workstation
20:00.09clive-hnot something i'd want on an actual server though
20:00.18clive-hwhich is why i like xen
20:01.41Dick_TurpinFather Ted (Ted Haeger) showed me it running on SLED but he had a GUI management which I could'nt find so was stuck with manual config
20:02.09Dick_TurpinAnd I don't have the skill
20:02.14clive-hyeah i just do manual config
20:02.22clive-hi had to learn it
20:03.11Dick_TurpinI started a Howto off the net for getting w2k running but it was a bit out of my league
20:03.37Dick_Turpingoibhniu, I still love you :-)
20:03.48clive-hHmmm you need virtualisation intel-vt or amd-v for that
20:04.12clive-hOnly my new box has virtualisation
20:04.23Dick_TurpinAarghh my eyes have glazed over and a nose bleed started
20:04.54clive-hyou can't run windows under old cpus using xen
20:07.22Dick_TurpinActually I'm slightly fibbing I installed Win ME on this Linux host just to see if Age of Empires would work, it didn't that game is the only reason I boot into Windows
20:07.46clive-hheh
20:08.03clive-hi use windows to connect to work's vpn
20:08.35Dick_TurpinIs that XP's client thingy?
20:09.01clive-hnah it's another one: forticlient
20:09.32Dick_TurpinDon't know it, did you know PCanywhere supports SuSE?
20:10.14antiphaseAdditionally, PCanywhere is teh gay
20:10.20antiphaserdesktop 4tw
20:10.40Dick_Turpinantiphase, More to the point its crap
20:12.06morsingNice
20:13.11clive-hi like rdesktop
20:13.55Dick_TurpinI only use ssh for my CentOS webserver
20:14.17clive-hi use ssh for linux boxes
20:15.21Dick_TurpinMy father runs XP Pro (V Badly) so I'm reduced to using PCanywhere when he snots it up
20:15.52clive-hthe windows is to access work's windows servers
20:16.08clive-hbut anyway that's just for one more month
20:16.29clive-hand then i just need to find a new job
20:17.49Dick_TurpinDon't ask me for help, I helped failure with his CV and he dissapeared off the face of the earth
20:18.01clive-hheh
20:18.38clive-hmy cv is okay just need to update it and put it on jobsite again
20:18.52Dick_Turpinmorsing, Did you read that blog?
20:20.22morsingNo
20:20.28morsingBlogs are for geeks
20:21.53secretlondonmy entire social life is organised through live journal (with the exception of the linux bits organised through email and irc)
20:21.58Dick_Turpinmorsing, But you'd have liked it he got shafted too
20:24.56antiphaseo_O
20:25.11Dick_TurpinSee you all tomorrow TTFN
20:26.38morsingTHE TOMATO!
20:26.47morsingOh god, it's back...
20:28.05clive-h?
20:35.48morsingclive-h: The Ragu add
20:36.11antiphaseWhensa your Ragu day?
20:36.22morsingMooo
20:37.33clive-hheh
20:42.55morsingclive-h: You coming to Snowdon?
20:43.08secretlondonbah 10 mins to go
20:43.28morsingsecretlondon: Are you?
20:43.28clive-hsnowdon?
20:43.54wethrinIt was the only suggestion for a Gllug walking trip
20:43.59morsing:)
20:44.03clive-hahhh
20:44.09morsingwethrin: I'm happy with the Chilterns
20:44.14clive-has in snowdonia?
20:44.20wethrinyarr
20:44.28wethrinmorsing: Yes, but sometime it's nice to go a bit higher
20:44.47morsingWell, some people seem to believe we should start a bit closer to home
20:44.59wethrinwho?
20:45.01clive-hhavinf badly burned my foot in 2004 i can barely walk these days
20:45.06wethrinow :-/
20:46.07morsing(
20:46.09morsing:(
20:46.23clive-hso count me out
20:46.46secretlondoni'm happy with primrose hill ;)
20:46.55secretlondonhow are we going to get to snowdonia?
20:47.00morsingDrive?
20:47.01wethrinBah! The lot of you! :)
20:47.04wethrinDrive / train
20:47.13morsingBig Red!
20:47.26wethrinVROOOOM
20:48.17secretlondonwell someone will have to give me a life then
20:48.23secretlondonas i'm very skint
20:48.37morsingWhat do you need a life for?
20:48.58morsingsecretlondon: I can give you a lift but I might want you to sign something
20:49.14morsingSince my car has no seatbelts
20:49.50morsingBeer
20:49.55wethrinYes!
20:49.58wethrinlater!
20:50.14morsingI have a feeling secretlondon got kicked out...
20:50.52secretlondonnot yet
20:50.54secretlondon2 mins
20:50.56morsing:)
20:50.56secretlondonso now really
20:51.11secretlondoni meant lift of course
20:51.15morsing:)
20:51.17secretlondonanyway - must go now
20:51.29morsingBye
21:10.46morsingDid everyone leave with secretlondon??
21:11.08boudiccasno
21:13.18morsing:)
21:13.23morsingYou've been quiet
21:14.19clive-hheh
21:18.15morsingclive-h: So what do you do? Work, student? Something else?
21:18.33clive-hcontractor
21:18.44clive-hat the end of my contract
21:19.06clive-hi'm a linux/solaris systems administrator
21:19.24morsing'k
21:21.57boudiccasyes, its my turn to be quiet :o)
21:22.16clive-hheh
21:42.04*** join/#gllug IAmAI (n=iamai@user-544139bb.l6.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk)
21:49.16*** join/#gllug Twostone (i=Twostone@host86-142-170-13.range86-142.btcentralplus.com)
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22:02.44*** join/#gllug Nermal (n=peter@host81-155-148-121.range81-155.btcentralplus.com)
22:02.59Nermallo lo
22:05.54hali'elo
22:06.49Nermalmoving to london this week
22:07.00Nermalso likely to switch over from south wales lug to the gllug
22:09.34murbdo you have your south wales exit visa?
22:11.01Nermalit's free to get out
22:11.07Nermalyou have to pay to get in for some reason :|
22:11.28murbhehe
22:11.33murbonly if you cross the bridge.
22:13.21clive-hthe rubicon?
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