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| 08:37.10 | niv_one_three | I always get a weird feeling when someone in work - leaves |
| 08:41.09 | bilarh | is it the scramble for their office supplies that annoys you? :-) |
| 08:42.28 | niv_one_three | I guess its agoizem |
| 08:42.37 | niv_one_three | yet I do feel it strongly |
| 08:42.53 | bilarh | agoizem? I don't even know what that word means :-) |
| 08:43.02 | bilarh | ibot: dictionary agoizem |
| 08:43.14 | ibot | see dict agoizem |
| 08:43.54 | bilarh | ibot: dict agoizem |
| 08:44.03 | bilarh | ibot: you're not very helpful! |
| 08:44.07 | ibot | no *you're* not very helpful! |
| 08:44.14 | bilarh | :-( |
| 08:51.36 | phearless | hi guys ! |
| 08:54.59 | niv_one_three | hi phearless |
| 08:55.58 | bilarh | phearless |
| 08:57.00 | phearless | oh I missed the meeting of friday, I've just seen the topic |
| 09:03.16 | kjalil | morning all |
| 09:03.58 | kjalil | niv_one_three: egoism? |
| 09:14.44 | *** part/#gllug mumperer (n=don@rose963.demon.co.uk) |
| 09:31.19 | sanelson | moin |
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| 10:03.55 | z00dax | sure |
| 10:12.15 | goibhniu | z00dax: your confidence is inspiring |
| 10:18.02 | boudiccas | goibhniu; if Mr Bean can drive his mini whilst sitting in an armchair on top of it, you can ride a bicycle whilst carrying an office chair |
| 10:22.35 | goibhniu | boudiccas: that's also encouraging ... it's raining too .. but hey, I'm all motivated now |
| 10:22.55 | z00dax | absolutely, go for it |
| 10:22.59 | z00dax | be a man |
| 10:23.14 | boudiccas | just be sure to take some rope and a couple of broomsticks to reach the pedals with |
| 10:27.14 | clive-h | gaffer tape++ |
| 10:27.27 | z00dax | rope++ |
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| 10:28.13 | goibhniu | I'll be cycling from elephant & castle to dalston between 1:30 and 2:30 ... if anyone wants to cheer me on |
| 10:28.51 | boudiccas | ah, the rain might have stopped by then |
| 10:29.02 | goibhniu | I'd advise those of you with cars on this route, to consider putting them in a garage |
| 10:38.24 | serris | hi boudiccas |
| 10:38.41 | boudiccas | hiyas serris. long time no see |
| 10:38.48 | serris | Indeed, How're things? |
| 10:39.06 | niv_one_three | kjalil: right egoizem |
| 10:39.13 | boudiccas | like the weather, cool :) you still doing the night shift at sainsburys? |
| 10:39.24 | serris | Oh yeah |
| 10:39.35 | boudiccas | still doing bws? |
| 10:39.43 | serris | Nah. I'm a jack of all trades |
| 10:39.49 | serris | I'm everywhere like the wind |
| 10:39.59 | boudiccas | ah, a replacement replenisher :) |
| 10:40.32 | serris | >< |
| 10:40.47 | serris | Sort of. As my manager says "You're the man in the bag" |
| 10:41.00 | boudiccas | strange expression! |
| 10:41.10 | serris | Yeah |
| 10:42.45 | serris | How's your job situation? |
| 10:42.56 | boudiccas | i had a strange experience on this computer last night. My 'dead' hard drive [which was waiting for me to take it out] clicked and resurrected itself! |
| 10:42.58 | *** join/#gllug mumperer (n=don@rose963.demon.co.uk) |
| 10:43.26 | boudiccas | still job hunting, have an interviwe tomorrow for a media tape changer at a local data centre |
| 10:43.35 | boudiccas | *interview |
| 10:43.41 | serris | Sounds good |
| 10:43.59 | serris | I'm thinking towards other jobs. I'm even half serious about joining the police =/ |
| 10:44.07 | boudiccas | yes, it sounds hopeful except its hsift work and i don't really want shift work again |
| 10:44.40 | boudiccas | if you're tall enough and fit enough, why not? |
| 10:45.12 | eyore | what's that command that scans through the input and outputs the number of duped lines? |
| 10:45.19 | serris | Cause I'm not very good at controlling situations and I'd probably end up getting arrested for rhamming my rotch up their bum |
| 10:46.25 | boudiccas | lol |
| 10:46.56 | serris | anyway afk for a while, going to play with my son while my wife cooks |
| 10:47.37 | boudiccas | enjoy :) |
| 10:47.49 | z00dax | serris: hey! |
| 10:47.56 | mumperer | Looks like all the GLLUG mickey-taking and sideways advice has worked on me at last! Unbelievably, I have just installed Debian 4.0 on my kit! Whoopee, golly-gosh and bleedin' 'ell! |
| 10:48.03 | bilarh | eyore: uniq -c ? |
| 10:48.08 | eyore | that's it! |
| 10:48.46 | bilarh | eyore: you may need to sort it first |
| 10:48.53 | eyore | i have |
| 10:48.55 | bilarh | as in, uniq only checks consecutive lines |
| 10:48.56 | bilarh | ah ok |
| 10:51.01 | eyore | cat /var/log/squid/access.log | cut -d' ' -f 1 |sort | uniq -c | sort -n -r | head -n20 <- top 20 ip addresses hitting my server |
| 10:51.09 | eyore | sometimes unix/linux is really neat |
| 10:52.14 | bilarh | ok, i'm having a glasses moment... i was looking at that thinking what the hell does <- top redirect :p |
| 10:52.31 | bilarh | not so much glasses as numpty, maybe, though :-) |
| 10:52.58 | mumperer | boudiccas: howdy and did you win many matches yesterday and read my earleir shout? Thanks to everybody - I'm well chuffed ... :) |
| 10:53.29 | antiphase | cut -d' ' -f 1 < /var/log/squid/access.log | ... is more leet |
| 10:53.48 | eyore | my leetness grows daily |
| 10:53.56 | eyore | except i forget so many things |
| 10:54.10 | eyore | sometimes it's an uphill battle against memory loss |
| 10:54.15 | eyore | :) |
| 10:54.21 | antiphase | More fish required |
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| 10:58.31 | bilarh | cpufreak! |
| 10:58.38 | bilarh | how's the csl coming along? |
| 10:58.49 | cpufreak | picked it up on saturday, power steering fixed |
| 10:59.00 | cpufreak | goes into BMW dealer on friday in UK to get a new clutch |
| 10:59.02 | bilarh | excellent! straight to the ring? :-) |
| 10:59.11 | cpufreak | next monday hopefully going to intrax to get suspension fitted |
| 10:59.33 | cpufreak | next friday to ac schnitzer to get rollcage |
| 10:59.37 | bilarh | cool :-) |
| 10:59.41 | bilarh | hang on a sec... |
| 10:59.54 | bilarh | i thought you said "i just wanted a car that i didn't have to modify, that's why i got the csl" :P |
| 11:00.02 | cpufreak | yeh |
| 11:00.06 | bilarh | "oh, maybe i'll sort the brakes, but apart from that, i'll leave it standard" :) |
| 11:00.14 | cpufreak | but the suspension is bottoming out in places round the 'ring |
| 11:00.19 | cpufreak | so I need stiffer springs |
| 11:00.22 | cpufreak | or to drive more slowly |
| 11:00.32 | cpufreak | so getting intrax 4way coilovers |
| 11:00.41 | cpufreak | clutch is warranty work |
| 11:00.49 | cpufreak | and rollcage is to keep me alive |
| 11:00.57 | bilarh | yeah, all sensible mods :-) |
| 11:01.11 | bilarh | i was just taking the piss a bit :-) |
| 11:01.28 | bilarh | i spent the weekend crawling around in the mud under the scooby |
| 11:01.45 | bilarh | it was very enjoyable actually :-) |
| 11:01.51 | bilarh | only one round bolt and all :-D |
| 11:02.17 | bilarh | but it didn't matter because it was on the exhaust anyway, so i just dropped the whole thing down and pulled it out from underneath the car |
| 11:02.26 | bilarh | the subaru is a bloody nightmare to work on though |
| 11:02.42 | bilarh | in order to get the down pipe off you have to take off the bloody intercooler and loads of heatshields... |
| 11:02.55 | bilarh | and someone cleverly designed it with bolts hidden underneath all sorts of crap |
| 11:03.08 | bilarh | in places where you can't get a spanner |
| 11:03.32 | bilarh | but luckily at least the turbo side bolts came off quite easily |
| 11:03.44 | bilarh | when i say easily, i mean about ten minutes each :p |
| 11:03.48 | bilarh | times 5 |
| 11:03.52 | bilarh | on the one side |
| 11:04.10 | bilarh | still have five to go on the underside of the turbo, oh and about 400 on the manifold which also need to come off |
| 11:04.21 | bilarh | the manifold ones are predictably rusty |
| 11:04.27 | hali | zzzZZZzzzzzz |
| 11:04.31 | bilarh | so i reckon i'll spend the next weekend underneath the car drilling :) |
| 11:04.43 | bilarh | hali: shut yo face, mofo! :-) |
| 11:04.56 | cpufreak | lol |
| 11:05.09 | cpufreak | turbo cars are such hard work to work on |
| 11:05.22 | bilarh | on the plus side, i look well cool with all my cuts and and bruises on my hands :P |
| 11:05.26 | hali | bilarh: i thought you made enough dosh to get someone to do all that stuff for you |
| 11:05.28 | bilarh | yeah it's all too tight |
| 11:05.39 | bilarh | hali: that is not the point, i *want* to do it on my own |
| 11:06.02 | bilarh | then i can look at it and think "*I* broke that expensive part it will take me half a year to save up for" |
| 11:06.31 | bilarh | or "it's *my* fault that there are gearbox shards spraying the car behind" :) |
| 11:06.42 | bilarh | actually, it was all good fun |
| 11:06.48 | bilarh | i set up a gazebo around the car to work in :D |
| 11:06.50 | bilarh | WRC style |
| 11:07.02 | hali | it's prbably quite dangerous for the general public when boyricers try to trim their cars |
| 11:07.16 | bilarh | all i would have needed were a set of subaru flags and it would have been like the british wrc :P |
| 11:07.42 | bilarh | hali: yeah i think that too.. that's why i'm having it done professionally :P |
| 11:07.45 | hali | i take it you have to get a pro to check it out before it's leigt? |
| 11:07.46 | hali | legit* |
| 11:08.18 | bilarh | nah, it's not rocket science... it's just an exhaust and a turbo, not like it's suspension :-) |
| 11:08.22 | bilarh | or brakes |
| 11:08.33 | bilarh | which aren't rocket science either |
| 11:09.04 | cpufreak | I fitted brakes and suspension to a previous car of mine |
| 11:09.11 | cpufreak | and the intercooler and changed the bumpers |
| 11:09.12 | bilarh | it's not too bad, is it? |
| 11:09.14 | cpufreak | and exhuast |
| 11:09.18 | cpufreak | I woudln't do it again |
| 11:09.23 | cpufreak | too much stress and hassle |
| 11:09.24 | bilarh | i done the springs on my previous car and the brakes on this one |
| 11:09.45 | bilarh | well, yeah it's a bit of a shitty job sometimes, but i really like doing it :-) |
| 11:09.55 | bilarh | i totally understand that most people would hate it :-) |
| 11:13.35 | cpufreak | its just the bit when its about 6pm on a sunday |
| 11:13.39 | cpufreak | and you realised that something is broken |
| 11:13.41 | cpufreak | or somehting is missing |
| 11:17.32 | *** join/#gllug mumperer (n=don@rose963.demon.co.uk) |
| 11:20.22 | eyore | my god, jotspot sucks so much |
| 11:23.19 | eyore | Talking of cars, i was reading yesterday that there are 3 24k gold plated DeLorean in existence one with a slightly mismatched left door and one with manual transmission |
| 11:23.33 | eyore | interesting huh? |
| 11:24.05 | serris | hi cpufreak |
| 11:24.51 | serris | hey z00dax |
| 11:25.19 | Leeds | evening all |
| 11:25.42 | serris | evening Leeds |
| 11:25.49 | eyore | well i found it fascinating. Sadly none of them have travelled in time. |
| 11:25.52 | eyore | well, not that i know of |
| 11:32.06 | bilarh | cpufreak: yeah, you need a second car to be a diy mechanic |
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| 11:47.02 | *** join/#gllug asht_007 (n=asht_007@host-212-158-220-82.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 11:47.30 | *** topic/#gllug by wethrin -> Mailing lists have been restored | Greater London LUG - http://www.gllug.org.uk | http://planet.gllug.org.uk |
| 11:48.38 | sanelson | golly |
| 12:09.49 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=peter@host217-34-163-21.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 12:11.12 | dick_turpin | Stick em up! |
| 12:21.49 | sanelson | dick_turpin: I'm glad you suggested that - theu were going in the bin. |
| 12:32.03 | boudiccas | I always thought that the approved format was "Your money or your wife!" |
| 12:32.22 | serris | Hi boudiccas |
| 12:32.27 | boudiccas | hiyas serris |
| 12:32.35 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: Have the wife! Pleeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssseeeeeeeeeeee |
| 12:32.35 | serris | How's it going? |
| 12:32.52 | boudiccas | just starting to prepare for an interview tomorrow |
| 12:33.08 | serris | Sounds good |
| 12:33.41 | boudiccas | i've got gadzillions of docs to read through and make notes of, and then at 1630 I've got a mock interview over the phone |
| 12:34.17 | boudiccas | with someone from the employment agency |
| 12:34.37 | serris | Fun |
| 12:34.45 | boudiccas | dick_turpin; i thought that might be your reply, but sorry, no deal |
| 12:35.21 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: Swap the box? |
| 12:35.30 | *** join/#gllug LeedsHK (i=1000@n219077080214.netvigator.com) |
| 12:35.43 | boudiccas | your box? certainly |
| 12:36.52 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: You might end up with 1p like the guy did on Sunday, huh what a fix letting have the contents of the phone-in box. fix, fix, I tell ya |
| 12:37.34 | *** join/#gllug richardc (i=1000@n219077180131.netvigator.com) |
| 12:37.44 | boudiccas | dick_turpin; i haven't a clue what you're referring to, sorry |
| 12:38.33 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: Deal or no Deal |
| 12:39.47 | boudiccas | dick_turpin; i don't watch tv [not got one] so its all foreign to me :( |
| 12:40.38 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: See, your just no fun! I cant wait until we have that telephone interview ;-) |
| 12:41.05 | boudiccas | dick_turpin; lets not joke about that, i'm already getting nervous and tensed up about it all |
| 12:42.20 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: It'll be a walk in the park for you, telephone interview, notes ready to hand, face to face is much harder |
| 12:42.51 | bilarh | dick_turpin: face to face is easier imo |
| 12:43.08 | bilarh | dick_turpin: at least then it's easier to judge what the people think :-) |
| 12:43.35 | clive-h | hood luck with the interview! |
| 12:43.42 | clive-h | good even |
| 12:43.48 | boudiccas | clive-h; ty :) |
| 12:43.54 | bilarh | yes, good luck :-) |
| 12:43.58 | bilarh | what kind of job is it? |
| 12:44.01 | boudiccas | bilarh; ty too :) |
| 12:44.18 | boudiccas | bilarh; a media tape changer in a data centre |
| 12:44.49 | boudiccas | plus a lot of other stuff to fill the hours, but thats the job title |
| 12:45.19 | bilarh | cool :-D |
| 12:45.26 | bilarh | what other stuff will you be doing apart from that? |
| 12:45.45 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: (treading carefully) Are you playing with us or is that really the job title? |
| 12:46.03 | boudiccas | sending the filled tapes off to an offsite location, ordering replacement stocks, etc |
| 12:46.12 | boudiccas | dick_turpin; this is all genuine |
| 12:46.40 | boudiccas | also be a windows help desk |
| 12:46.49 | bilarh | man, how many tapes do they have? |
| 12:46.56 | bilarh | that must be some big ass tape library :) |
| 12:46.56 | boudiccas | gadzillions |
| 12:47.04 | boudiccas | i reckon it is |
| 12:47.06 | *** join/#gllug LeedsHK (n=richardc@n219073062229.netvigator.com) |
| 12:47.10 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: It's just I had a vision of you running around banks of tape drives changing the tapes all day |
| 12:47.19 | clive-h | if it's a big data centre i can see that might take a while |
| 12:47.43 | boudiccas | its mainly evening and night work, back onto shift work again |
| 12:48.14 | boudiccas | it is a big data centre, does work for major banks, and government departments too |
| 12:48.14 | bilarh | what's it like working shifts anyway? |
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| 12:48.30 | boudiccas | bilarh; you mean you don't know? :) |
| 12:48.42 | clive-h | when i started in IT, much of the work of the Operations team was changing replaceable disk packs and 1/2 inch magnetic tape |
| 12:48.59 | bilarh | boudiccas: no, never worked shifts at all actually |
| 12:49.29 | clive-h | Although not my stuff I was an Analyst/Programmer originally |
| 12:49.46 | boudiccas | bilarh; i've found that the trick is .. is to have your evening after work, even if thats at 1000 in the morning, and then just reverse the day |
| 12:49.50 | bilarh | clive-h: me too! how did you end up in sysadmin? |
| 12:50.06 | bilarh | boudiccas: aha :-) |
| 12:50.19 | bilarh | boudiccas: though i think i'd be dead depressed if day time tv was my evening tv :-) |
| 12:50.33 | bilarh | the "late night show" would be like bbc news at 12 :-) |
| 12:50.45 | clive-h | Well the A/Ps used to take books in to read cos the system we worked on would go down for hours at a time |
| 12:51.07 | clive-h | So one day I offered to assist the Operator in getting it running again |
| 12:51.10 | boudiccas | the meals stay the same as everyone else, to minimise disruption to others schedules but I just otherwise I just reverse my day |
| 12:51.24 | clive-h | I got chased out of the Computer Room |
| 12:51.37 | clive-h | But eventually I took on the System Programmer role |
| 12:52.00 | boudiccas | and now Bob's your uncle |
| 12:52.52 | clive-h | I recall the Director asking me once ho I reported to and I said "I have no idea" I just fix the syetem hen needed |
| 12:53.05 | clive-h | s/ho/who/ |
| 12:53.17 | clive-h | s/syetem/system/ |
| 12:53.24 | clive-h | gah |
| 12:54.20 | boudiccas | clive-h; so, as we're talking about him, how is Uncle Bob ? |
| 12:54.37 | clive-h | I don't have an Uncle Bob |
| 12:54.54 | clive-h | or family really |
| 12:54.55 | boudiccas | <boudiccas> and now Bob's your uncle |
| 12:55.07 | boudiccas | :) |
| 12:55.32 | clive-h | lol |
| 12:58.24 | boudiccas | ooh! its gone all quiet again! |
| 12:58.33 | *** join/#gllug shuan (n=shuan@82-44-45-246.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 12:58.42 | shuan | hi |
| 12:58.53 | boudiccas | its the croydon wonder! :) |
| 12:59.03 | shuan | haha |
| 12:59.06 | shuan | how are ya? |
| 12:59.14 | boudiccas | cool, ty. and you? |
| 12:59.28 | shuan | yeah not bad |
| 12:59.43 | shuan | i think i jus might have myself some work experience in an office |
| 12:59.55 | boudiccas | good :) pleased for you |
| 13:00.10 | shuan | maintaining windoze computers :( |
| 13:00.20 | shuan | i will ask if they would like linux haha |
| 13:00.46 | shuan | whats new |
| 13:01.34 | boudiccas | the sky! you want it down to play with? |
| 13:01.53 | boudiccas | [if so, reach for it yourself :))) |
| 13:01.59 | shuan | haha |
| 13:02.32 | dick_turpin | A few years ago when I was in the Haz Waste industry I visited the banking clearing house @ Stone (Staffordshire) they had this, um sealed room with a window and an operator on one wall, inside was a robot arm taking tapes from racks and I suppose sticking them in some sort of reader. All very Sci-Fi they wasn't very talkative about it for some reason. |
| 13:02.50 | shuan | ok |
| 13:02.56 | shuan | i will talk to you later |
| 13:03.00 | shuan | do u have aim |
| 13:03.26 | boudiccas | no... thi si slinux remember |
| 13:03.30 | boudiccas | *this is |
| 13:03.51 | clive-h | those robo tape changers are all good until they break |
| 13:04.21 | boudiccas | and thats when you need me ... call wonderwoman 0800 662300 |
| 13:04.26 | bilarh | gaim :-) |
| 13:04.30 | dick_turpin | clive-h: It was huge |
| 13:04.41 | shuan | yea i meant an aim screen name |
| 13:04.55 | clive-h | yeah i've seen such facilities |
| 13:05.01 | shuan | still go prepare for interview |
| 13:05.04 | shuan | talk later |
| 13:05.40 | dick_turpin | clive-h: And fast, I stood mesmerized |
| 13:05.51 | clive-h | In the 1960s the London Borough of Greenwich had something similar for parking cars in their new car park |
| 13:06.08 | clive-h | It only operated for 6 months |
| 13:07.01 | clive-h | there were a few oopsies with cars getting jammed# |
| 13:07.10 | dick_turpin | clive-h: rotfl I just had a vision of you driving to the car park entrance and the robot arm picking you and the car up and plonking you on a shelf |
| 13:07.27 | clive-h | Nah |
| 13:07.46 | clive-h | The driver had to get out first |
| 13:08.07 | clive-h | I should stress I've only seen pics and the auditors report |
| 13:08.26 | clive-h | I don't drive and never have |
| 13:09.07 | dick_turpin | clive-h: Hang on I remember that or at least somewhere having that wasn't it a sort of conveyor thing a bit like a lift |
| 13:09.45 | clive-h | yeah pretty much the same as those tape mechanisms |
| 13:10.40 | clive-h | picker selects a unit and either puts it in the stack or extracts it from the stack and places in accessible slot |
| 13:11.08 | clive-h | it's when the unit jams there's problems |
| 13:11.42 | clive-h | and when it's a car that jams a lawsuit ensues |
| 13:12.39 | dick_turpin | clive I got the feeling that the 'room' was like a giant HDD and the tapes are the files so that when a relevant file was needed that's when the tape was selected |
| 13:13.16 | *** join/#gllug mumperer (n=don@rose963.demon.co.uk) |
| 13:13.24 | bilarh | dick_turpin: "so what's the seek time on this huge hdd then" "err... about 3 minutes" :-) |
| 13:13.59 | clive-h | well that's hierachical file storage |
| 13:14.15 | clive-h | ICL's VME was like that with 1/2 mag tape |
| 13:14.17 | rhowe | mm, hsm |
| 13:14.29 | rhowe | XFS has DMAPI |
| 13:14.36 | clive-h | It had a catalogue of which file was on which tape |
| 13:14.48 | wethrin | rhowe! |
| 13:15.22 | clive-h | When a program needed to access a file that was on a tape not mounted on a drive then the Operators were prompted to mount that tape |
| 13:15.40 | rhowe | re Dan |
| 13:16.04 | dick_turpin | I'm pretty certain banks will have the fastest after all they want to make those 'Charges' as quickly as possible |
| 13:16.18 | rhowe | I guess you need a lot of data for HSM to start making economic sense these days |
| 13:16.55 | clive-h | Well those huge tape automatons aren't cheap |
| 13:17.16 | rhowe | indeed |
| 13:17.25 | clive-h | But if you're a bank maintaining a large data warehouse they would make sense |
| 13:17.26 | rhowe | and hard drives are (though they consume power) |
| 13:17.27 | bilarh | dick_turpin: you'd be surprised |
| 13:17.27 | dick_turpin | clive-h: I hope not I've paid enough in charges over the years |
| 13:17.40 | clive-h | Haven't we all? |
| 13:18.07 | clive-h | I don't work in banking, I work in the Internet/Web sector |
| 13:18.07 | bilarh | dick_turpin: i used to work on the same floor as some retail banking back office and everything was really slow |
| 13:18.25 | bilarh | dick_turpin: as in, it would take days to run some crappy report etc |
| 13:18.37 | dick_turpin | clive-h: I'm thinking of claiming mine back, I have all the relevant letters just a bit scared to set the ball rolling |
| 13:18.37 | bilarh | dick_turpin: on the other hand, most of the time they got it right |
| 13:19.05 | clive-h | Well those charges were declared illgeal |
| 13:19.09 | bilarh | dick_turpin: not like us cowboys in the IB section who'd get everythign done quickly but with everything falling over all the time :P |
| 13:21.07 | *** join/#gllug geospart (n=geospart@adsl-227-128-84.clt.bellsouth.net) |
| 13:21.53 | dick_turpin | clive-h: I have rather a large cheq waiting to clear in one of my bank accounts the cheq is from Barclays I went into my branch and asked if I could have an advance against the funds (It'll take six working days to clear) they said "Oh yes but we will have to charge you £28.00" What!!! |
| 13:23.01 | clive-h | heh |
| 13:23.08 | bilarh | 28 quid hehe |
| 13:23.15 | geospart | 'yawn' |
| 13:23.18 | bilarh | bloomin ell :-) |
| 13:23.54 | clive-h | i've ever only paid once to clear a cheque fast |
| 13:24.24 | dick_turpin | clive-h: That's not the best the said they had to wait 6 days to make sure it cleared "Its got Barclays written all over it you stupid cow" |
| 13:24.35 | dick_turpin | they |
| 13:24.46 | clive-h | lol |
| 13:25.15 | clive-h | get the bank to reissue it as a bankers draft |
| 13:25.36 | dick_turpin | clive-h: It should clear tomorrow |
| 13:26.33 | clive-h | i can't remember much of the banking code, i used to know it quite well |
| 13:31.22 | dick_turpin | clive-h: When they told me how long I said "Christ there are plans to send men to Mars" yet it takes six days to transfer funds from one bank to another" I ask ya? |
| 13:32.27 | clive-h | You wouldn't think we have computer networks these days would you? |
| 13:32.58 | dick_turpin | clive-h: I love it when your at the counter and the terminal crashes, they look so lost reverting to pen and paper |
| 13:34.32 | clive-h | That's always amusing with any computerised system that interfaces with the public |
| 13:34.44 | clive-h | Half the times I phoned WorldPay from one job, it was "ah we can't help you, please call back, the computer's crashed" |
| 13:34.52 | dick_turpin | clive-h: Not sure if I've already told the Yorkshire bank story? |
| 13:35.06 | clive-h | I believe not |
| 13:36.20 | dick_turpin | clive-h: I'll try and make it short. the other month we had bank holiday Friday and Monday? |
| 13:37.08 | clive-h | yes indeed |
| 13:37.09 | geospart | bank of America and Wachovia... bot use windows machines ... ha |
| 13:37.35 | clive-h | lots of banks use OS/2 for ATMs |
| 13:37.37 | dick_turpin | clive-h: To set the scene Yorkshire bank are closed Saturdays |
| 13:37.52 | clive-h | which is windows too really |
| 13:37.56 | clive-h | Ahhh I see |
| 13:38.16 | clive-h | I rarely actually go into a bank |
| 13:38.23 | geospart | yes |
| 13:38.31 | geospart | I supported os/2 |
| 13:38.33 | geospart | brb |
| 13:38.42 | clive-h | Unless it's raining and I want to use the ATM out of the raim |
| 13:39.02 | dick_turpin | clive-h: So I get a phone call from Y'shire on the Saturday "You owe us £30.00 you basta...." |
| 13:39.10 | clive-h | Haha |
| 13:39.26 | dick_turpin | clive-h: THats not the funny bit |
| 13:39.44 | clive-h | let me guess the ATMs ran out of cash? |
| 13:40.15 | dick_turpin | clive-h: "OK I'll go into branch on Tuesday and pay it" "I'm afraid that's not acceptable" |
| 13:40.50 | clive-h | But that's the next working day |
| 13:41.13 | dick_turpin | clive-h: 3 times I lied and said "I do not have a charge card" but she kept asking for one |
| 13:41.44 | clive-h | "Excuse me, can I speak to your supervisor?" |
| 13:42.08 | clive-h | and then mention the Banking Ombudsman |
| 13:43.03 | dick_turpin | clive I then got a tad nasty and said "Look are you dim or what? its Saturday, you are closed Saturday, the next day is Sunday and you are closed, Monday is a Bank Holiday so your closed I want to pay it I have the cash here what would you like to do? come and collect it? |
| 13:43.30 | boudiccas | and they said 'yes please!' |
| 13:43.42 | clive-h | hahah |
| 13:43.44 | dick_turpin | clive-h: She then said "I'll just put you on hold" |
| 13:43.55 | clive-h | Heh |
| 13:44.29 | dick_turpin | clive-h: She came back on the line and said "As a gesture of good faith we will put a hold until Tuesday" go figure? |
| 13:44.37 | boudiccas | rofl |
| 13:44.47 | clive-h | They have quotas to make |
| 13:44.54 | clive-h | Like any call centre |
| 13:45.12 | geospart | my credit union here still use os/2 ...they have been converting over though...I think to RH |
| 13:45.13 | bilarh | dick_turpin: astonishing! |
| 13:45.21 | dick_turpin | clive-h: S'funny you say that I was wondering if they get a percentage of money they collect? |
| 13:46.07 | clive-h | I doubt that |
| 13:46.24 | clive-h | They will get extra money for meeting their target |
| 13:46.44 | clive-h | which may well be measured by bring x accounts up to date |
| 13:46.53 | clive-h | *bringing |
| 13:46.59 | dick_turpin | clive-h: I've got a million em, I used to be scared when banks etc phoned now I play them at their own game |
| 13:48.04 | clive-h | I tend to use the phone firewall to screen calls |
| 13:50.01 | dick_turpin | clive-h: Ah you can tell there's generally a 3-4 second delay before they come on the line, just put the phone on the desk or something and go make a cup of tea :-D |
| 13:50.02 | clive-h | phone firewall=answerphone |
| 13:50.13 | clive-h | I'll let calls fall over to that normally |
| 13:50.38 | dick_turpin | clive-h: Actually I like taking them now 9 times out of 10 they've got it wrong anyway |
| 13:51.39 | clive-h | I take calls during weekdays cos I'm looking for work and some $recruiters use the landline |
| 13:52.05 | ranner | I set up my asterisk box a while ago to play a message saying "your call is important to me, but so are coffe breaks, please hold" and used it to get rid of telemarketers and stuff. |
| 13:52.11 | dick_turpin | clive-h: I had one the other week who said "I cant access your account for the minute" to which I said "So how do I know your talking from facts?" |
| 13:52.58 | clive-h | So how did they get your number? |
| 13:53.06 | clive-h | That's a bit suspect |
| 13:53.28 | dick_turpin | clive-h: Ah I reckon they just had a debtors list and was working from that |
| 13:53.39 | clive-h | perhaps yeah |
| 13:54.15 | boudiccas | I had one last week who wanted to talk to me about my account, so I asked them how did I know that they weren't phishing? So they gave me their phone number and name and I rang them back |
| 13:54.23 | dick_turpin | clive-h: If you get one with "This is being recorded" tell em your recording it too they really hate it |
| 13:54.55 | ranner | dick_turpin - I've done that. They don't like it at all |
| 13:55.20 | dick_turpin | ranner: And if you ask their name, full name they get arsey |
| 13:55.36 | clive-h | That's the old trick with interesting interviews with management |
| 13:56.07 | ranner | dick_turpin: yeah, that annoys me - you have someone being rude who won't give you their name, then you call back to complain and mysteriously there's no record of the call |
| 13:56.14 | geospart | I have a nifty old phone recording device I hook up to my system and use audacity with ..... one of those things one used to be able to buy at radio shack and hook to a cassette recorder |
| 13:56.37 | clive-h | You put your pearlcorder on the table, say something like "I'm sure this is 100% above board so you won't mind if I record this?" |
| 13:56.37 | dick_turpin | ranner: Been there got the tee shirt |
| 13:57.51 | geospart | I record the occasiona job interview on my pda or mp3 player....gotta love the mp3 player it's tiny..... one could drop it in a shirt pocket |
| 13:58.29 | clive-h | Well not job interviews but interesting discussions at work |
| 13:58.43 | clive-h | But the point isn't to conceal it |
| 13:59.13 | geospart | for me it is.... I can judge my job intreview for myself later ...... |
| 13:59.13 | clive-h | Years ago I was a shop steward for my then trade union |
| 13:59.14 | geospart | ha |
| 13:59.48 | geospart | for me won't use the recording in court...or ven share it ...so |
| 14:00.08 | clive-h | The other good tactic there was to ask for the District Officer to be present since the Director hated the DO |
| 14:01.13 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: See and you thought you had worries |
| 14:01.42 | clive-h | Not been in a Trade Union since I left local government |
| 14:01.59 | clive-h | (we were outsourced) |
| 14:02.14 | boudiccas | everybody has worries/concerns/problems. its what you do about them that counts |
| 14:04.27 | boudiccas | E+ R = O [Events + your Response = a good Outcome] |
| 14:05.05 | bilarh | boudiccas: erm... that equation isn't exactly balanced is it |
| 14:05.10 | bilarh | what if your response is bad :P |
| 14:05.45 | boudiccas | then you get a 'bad' outcome |
| 14:06.00 | bilarh | you scared ceronman off :( |
| 14:06.30 | boudiccas | you can give a 'good response' but still get a 'bad outcome'. its all down to how you preceive things |
| 14:06.35 | boudiccas | *percieve |
| 14:06.46 | bilarh | and how you define good :-) |
| 14:12.16 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: I don't think the mask helped when I was in the Bank? |
| 14:13.32 | LeedsHK | dick_turpin: a little black one? |
| 14:15.13 | dick_turpin | LeedsHK: :-[ Sh don't tell everyone about my little black number |
| 14:15.36 | clive-h | did you sing 'stand and deliver' a la adam ant? |
| 14:16.53 | dick_turpin | clive-h: Um no but it was nice to be treated (At first) like some rich guy when they saw the cheq, had to go in a private room :-) |
| 14:17.15 | clive-h | I've never been that rich |
| 14:17.46 | dick_turpin | clive-h: Don't get too excited its all spent :-( |
| 14:18.59 | clive-h | hehehe |
| 14:22.07 | dick_turpin | clive-h: Waiting for the next fun installment when I try and transfer a large portion of it with a debit card which they all assure me can be done, yeah right! |
| 14:22.31 | clive-h | heh |
| 14:30.15 | bilarh | is it spelt "parametrisized" or "parametrisised" in English (in the context of "this <thing> is parametrisiXed" (i.e. it accepts parameters))? |
| 14:31.59 | bilarh | ah turns out it's actually "parametrized" :-) |
| 14:33.35 | *** join/#gllug londo_ (n=georgiou@heppc218.hep.ph.ic.ac.uk) |
| 14:51.03 | JAV | hi! |
| 14:58.09 | LeedsHK | JAV: hey, long time no see! |
| 14:58.52 | JAV | true, I am really busy with the job |
| 14:59.15 | JAV | how are you? |
| 15:00.52 | LeedsHK | also busy with my job :-) |
| 15:00.52 | LeedsHK | you're still in Madrid? |
| 15:02.35 | JAV | yes, still in Colt Telecom |
| 15:03.14 | LeedsHK | so what's new and exciting in your life? |
| 15:03.22 | JAV | with changes, I will sign a new contract on 16 |
| 15:03.52 | JAV | CMS Service Assurance Team Leader Madrid |
| 15:03.52 | JAV | :D |
| 15:04.20 | LeedsHK | ooh, posh title :-) |
| 15:04.36 | JAV | there are already jokes about it |
| 15:04.37 | JAV | :D |
| 15:05.33 | *** join/#gllug Ch0Hag (n=mking@87.127.170.250) |
| 15:05.44 | Ch0Hag | Oh we are on freenode. |
| 15:05.48 | Ch0Hag | How ... exciting. |
| 15:06.02 | LeedsHK | it's exciting? |
| 15:06.04 | JAV | I've very happy, despite the hard work they let me do things my way |
| 15:06.12 | LeedsHK | nice |
| 15:06.36 | Ch0Hag | Well I've got to think of something nice to say. |
| 15:06.39 | Ch0Hag | At least it's not efnet. |
| 15:06.46 | Leeds | undernet forever! |
| 15:07.36 | boudiccas | Is it my imagination, or do buffalo wings taste like chicken? |
| 15:07.50 | JAV | Leeds: I see that you are still in HK |
| 15:08.00 | JAV | hello Ch0Hag and boudiccas |
| 15:08.10 | boudiccas | hiyas JAV |
| 15:08.26 | Ch0Hag | Hello. |
| 15:08.55 | Ch0Hag | Since the temporary list seems to have pushed everyone else onto IRC, I didn't see any reason not to add another channel to the list of channels I idle in. |
| 15:09.03 | Ch0Hag | I mean, uh, channels I chat in. |
| 15:17.02 | *** part/#gllug dick_turpin (n=peter@host217-34-163-21.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 15:24.22 | Leeds | JAV: yes I am :-) |
| 15:32.29 | Ch0Hag | What's a good cheap backup device? |
| 15:32.38 | Ch0Hag | I found an old tape drive lying around but it's pitifully small. |
| 16:04.44 | wethrin | Ch0Hag: Array of hard disks |
| 16:05.33 | z00dax | boudiccas: buffalos' with wings are called chicken |
| 16:05.41 | *** join/#gllug Chr2s (n=chatzill@crag1.plus.com) |
| 16:06.14 | Leeds | so if you feed red bull to a cow, you get a chicken? |
| 16:07.02 | z00dax | a very over grown one.. but yes |
| 16:14.50 | boudiccas | and its hyperactive too |
| 16:24.06 | *** join/#gllug clive-h (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 16:24.40 | Ch0Hag | Hmm. |
| 16:24.52 | Ch0Hag | It's an array of hard discs I need to get backed up. |
| 16:26.15 | boudiccas | Ch0Hag; what is? the red bull? the cow? or the chicken? |
| 16:26.52 | Ch0Hag | I can't see myself backing up a red bull. |
| 16:26.56 | Ch0Hag | Or any kind of bull for that matter. |
| 16:27.20 | boudiccas | if you want to get it into the transporter back end first its the only way :) |
| 16:27.45 | *** join/#gllug tripitaka (n=chatzill@83.217.101.115) |
| 16:28.56 | tripitaka | o mighty linux people, does anyone know a simple way to stress the cpus an smp server? |
| 16:29.25 | wethrin | make -j |
| 16:29.45 | wethrin | Well, make -j N |
| 16:29.52 | wethrin | Otherwise the machine will probably fall over |
| 16:30.17 | tripitaka | good idea. That and the openh323 source code should give it a workout |
| 16:31.34 | Ch0Hag | Doesn't make -j (w/o a number) just split it as many times as it can? |
| 16:31.39 | wethrin | Yup |
| 16:31.48 | wethrin | Which tends to cause the machine to fall over |
| 16:31.53 | Ch0Hag | I seem to remember near killing a machine once finding that out. |
| 16:32.06 | wethrin | I tried that once on a Linux kernel |
| 16:32.16 | wethrin | Don't. |
| 16:32.19 | Ch0Hag | Heh. |
| 16:35.20 | tripitaka | ooh, effective. 8 opterons pegged |
| 16:46.55 | eyore | join #fedora |
| 16:47.15 | Leeds | eyore: no, and you can't make me |
| 16:47.31 | eyore | heh, i knew i would get some sarcastic remark after that typo |
| 16:48.50 | *** join/#gllug flips_and_rails (n=stu@cv-kraken.cv.ic.ac.uk) |
| 16:49.23 | eyore | leeds: do you know if there is any way to analyze what files are accessed most heavily on disk, or what files linux has in cache? |
| 16:50.07 | Leeds | good question... all you could get would be inode numbers, I'd think, anyway |
| 16:51.00 | clive-h | lsof will show you a list of files that are open |
| 16:51.44 | eyore | Not really interested in open files, i want to know what are most heavily cached in ram and most frequently accessed |
| 16:51.58 | eyore | it's like an annoying black box |
| 16:52.08 | antiphase | Why do you want to know? |
| 16:52.13 | clive-h | I think you might have to write something to do that |
| 16:52.30 | eyore | beacause cold run time for infrequently hit queries on postgresql are very poor |
| 16:52.46 | eyore | and it has something to do with linux not keeping the database cached in ram. |
| 16:52.52 | antiphase | Put more RAM in it |
| 16:52.54 | eyore | in the oodles of memory I have |
| 16:53.00 | Leeds | you really should be able to get a list of cached blocks from /proc or /sys somewhere |
| 16:53.21 | Ch0Hag | Doesn't pg limit the amount of RAM it uses? |
| 16:53.23 | clive-h | Well you could do a union fs and map the db to a ramdisk |
| 16:53.25 | Ch0Hag | In some way. |
| 16:53.31 | eyore | pg doesn't manage the memory |
| 16:53.33 | eyore | linux does |
| 16:53.37 | eyore | annoyingly |
| 16:53.50 | Ch0Hag | PG manages it inasmuch as telling Linux how much it wants. |
| 16:53.53 | antiphase | That sounds unlinkely |
| 16:54.13 | antiphase | Even MySQL caches things if it has enough RAM and is configured correctly |
| 16:54.22 | Ch0Hag | Or do you simply mean the kernel's cache? |
| 16:54.41 | *** join/#gllug goltor (n=goltor@77-99-148-49.cable.ubr06.hari.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 16:54.48 | Leeds | it should be able to pin the DB pages in memory, if you ask it to |
| 16:54.48 | clive-h | I'm guessing the kernel cache is what was meant |
| 16:55.04 | eyore | Ch0Hag: PG doesn't use much of that ram for caching, only a tiny amount, the postgresql develoeprs decided (in the benefit of their eternal wisdom) to let the linux disk cache manage the caching |
| 16:55.19 | eyore | makes some sense i suppose, since otherwise you get double caching. |
| 16:55.38 | eyore | And it's okay if you don't run much else on your db server, which ideally you don't. |
| 16:55.40 | clive-h | That seems unlikely given that postgressql didn't originate on linux |
| 16:55.48 | antiphase | I'd have thought Linux uses spare RAM for disk caches |
| 16:55.53 | clive-h | It does |
| 16:55.53 | Ch0Hag | And isn't meant for Linux alone. |
| 16:56.02 | eyore | When i say let linux i mean of course "let the OS disk caching" manage the memory |
| 16:56.02 | Leeds | as I said, you can pin stuff in memory - tell the OS to cache it for you |
| 16:56.16 | eyore | leeds: how? |
| 16:56.24 | clive-h | You can influence the way the kernel caches stuff |
| 16:56.34 | Leeds | I mean that PG could do that - and should, if you ask it to |
| 16:56.37 | clive-h | via sysctl |
| 16:56.39 | Leeds | I don't know if it does |
| 16:56.55 | clive-h | I don't know PostGresSQl |
| 16:57.07 | clive-h | I do MySQL or Oracle |
| 16:57.13 | eyore | It does not do much memory management unlike mysql |
| 16:57.23 | eyore | the advantage is you don't get wasteful double caching |
| 16:57.44 | eyore | the disadvantage is that if your OS doesn't have a suitable diskcaching model you are screwed |
| 16:57.50 | eyore | linux's is heavily LRU |
| 16:57.52 | antiphase | Either way, if you are in the suboptimal position of having a smaller amount of RAM than the size of your database, you can expect data to have to be read from disk |
| 16:58.05 | eyore | giving me terrible performance on critical but not often hit data. |
| 16:58.22 | eyore | antiphase: the entire database could fit in ram |
| 16:58.38 | eyore | but i can't force it into ram (short of ram disk) because linux manages the disk cache |
| 16:59.06 | eyore | the PG developers will say "this allows linux to best manage all system resources" and it would work well for a dedicated machine. |
| 16:59.08 | clive-h | Well perhaps a union fs with a ramdisk is what you need |
| 16:59.49 | clive-h | or put the journals on disk and keep the db on a ramdisk |
| 17:00.21 | eyore | if i put the db on a ramdisk i lose most of the integrity guarantees. |
| 17:00.23 | cpufreak | anyone got a solaris x86 box handy they use to do me a huge favour? |
| 17:00.42 | Ch0Hag | Thankfully not. |
| 17:01.04 | clive-h | Assuming most access of these critical files are reads |
| 17:01.36 | eyore | leeds: it can't pin the db pages in memory because it isn't addressing the database in it's own address space |
| 17:01.51 | cpufreak | why are you thankful you can't do me a favoue Ch0Hag? |
| 17:01.58 | clive-h | If postgres does proper journalling and is ACID then it wouldn't impact integrity |
| 17:02.12 | clive-h | what do you need a sol x86 box for? |
| 17:02.26 | cpufreak | I need cdpr compiled |
| 17:02.41 | Ch0Hag | I'm thankful I don't have a Solaris box handy. |
| 17:02.48 | clive-h | what on earth is that? |
| 17:02.59 | eyore | writing changes to a databse on ramdisk would most certainly destroy the ACID compliance. once a transaction is flushed to the database it's suppose to be persistent! |
| 17:03.24 | cpufreak | clive-h: cisco discovery protocol reporter or something |
| 17:03.27 | eyore | i bet dtrace could give me this info |
| 17:03.47 | cpufreak | its useful for identifying which switch/port a server is attached to |
| 17:04.12 | clive-h | Hmmm it looks like it has lots of dependencies |
| 17:04.35 | clive-h | solaris x86 can run linux binaries via lxrun |
| 17:04.51 | antiphase | eyore: It sounds like you're using the wrong tool or hardware :/ |
| 17:05.27 | clive-h | pmap might be what you want |
| 17:05.33 | eyore | antiphase: most certainly, i should be running the database on it's own machine, also I should maybe be using solaris not linux |
| 17:05.38 | clive-h | together with slabtop |
| 17:05.42 | Leeds | dtrace is da bomb |
| 17:06.06 | cpufreak | clive-h: I have a very mininal install on these solaris boxes |
| 17:06.16 | cpufreak | I can provide a simple app to it via mounting an iso through ilom |
| 17:06.19 | cpufreak | but have no network |
| 17:06.21 | cpufreak | and no lxrun |
| 17:06.27 | Ch0Hag | I'm sure there's a filesystem which reads from ram but writes to disc. |
| 17:06.32 | Ch0Hag | Can't remember what though. |
| 17:07.06 | Leeds | oh, lxrun |
| 17:07.11 | Leeds | I remember those days |
| 17:07.19 | eyore | clive-h: the memory i'm interested in is not mapped. |
| 17:07.29 | antiphase | I'm fairly sure running other stuff on a database server that relies on OS memory caching will utterly destroy it |
| 17:07.34 | cpufreak | also I remain unconvinced that even if I had lxrun that it'd be useful for riunning network utilities |
| 17:07.37 | eyore | clive-h: it's in use for disk caching |
| 17:08.04 | eyore | antiphase: if the other stuff is doing disk lot's of disk IO yes. |
| 17:08.13 | antiphase | You know the solution then :) |
| 17:08.19 | clive-h | also what version of solaris x86? |
| 17:08.29 | cpufreak | 10 |
| 17:08.32 | cpufreak | thought it wont matter |
| 17:08.36 | cpufreak | as its all binary compatible |
| 17:08.46 | clive-h | upwards |
| 17:08.55 | clive-h | not sure abiut backwards |
| 17:09.04 | Leeds | cpufreak: I worked on lxrun - and the in-kernel successor - at Sun |
| 17:09.41 | eyore | antiphase: Maybe, before investing all the time and money I would just like to be able to confirm my suspicions that the poor performance is related to the disk caching. |
| 17:10.03 | eyore | antiphase: And throw another 3 gig ram it, probably too. |
| 17:12.37 | clive-h | I have a laptop that can run Solaris x86 5.11 |
| 17:12.50 | cpufreak | clive: I have someone compiling it for me I think |
| 17:15.31 | Leeds | I'm pretty sure postrgres is on the CCD |
| 17:15.38 | Leeds | or at least it was |
| 17:16.22 | clive-h | However I don't have gcc |
| 17:16.29 | Leeds | hence the ccd |
| 17:16.32 | clive-h | so it's a bit moot |
| 17:16.36 | clive-h | Sure |
| 17:16.45 | clive-h | I've just not installed the CCD |
| 17:17.04 | Leeds | nobody does :-( |
| 17:17.09 | clive-h | i don't actually know why |
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| 17:17.18 | clive-h | I usually do on desktops |
| 17:17.51 | Leeds | I spent years of my life working on the CCD, and no bugger ever installs it |
| 17:18.16 | clive-h | Actually I almost always install most everything on the CCD |
| 17:18.40 | clive-h | Though my sparc boxes are off line at the moment |
| 17:18.58 | Leeds | haven't worked on it in years, of course |
| 17:19.27 | Ch0Hag | ccd? |
| 17:19.36 | clive-h | The laptop just has the bare mininum I need cos I normally use linux |
| 17:20.01 | Leeds | Ch0Hag: companion cd |
| 17:20.22 | Ch0Hag | Ah. |
| 17:20.32 | clive-h | no one has ever employed me to run solaris on x86 per se |
| 17:20.55 | Leeds | someone employed me to develop solaris on x86 :-) |
| 17:21.01 | clive-h | though i have administered some sol x86 legacy servers |
| 17:21.25 | clive-h | before 9 sol x86 was pretty grim |
| 17:22.29 | clive-h | terribly fussy about hardware |
| 17:22.35 | Leeds | yeah, 9 was the first release I worked on :-) |
| 17:23.14 | Ch0Hag | I'd like someone to get me to admin solaris. |
| 17:23.28 | Ch0Hag | But only because I'd charge them a bloody fortune for making my life unpleasant. |
| 17:23.46 | clive-h | i've adminned a mixture of solaris and linux servers a few times |
| 17:24.04 | clive-h | solaris isn't unpleasant |
| 17:24.19 | clive-h | from the command line it's much like linux |
| 17:24.31 | clive-h | except the packaging is different |
| 17:24.35 | wethrin | Except for the lack of GNU tools... |
| 17:24.40 | wethrin | It's just *so* 1980s :) |
| 17:24.46 | Leeds | /usr/sfw |
| 17:24.54 | wethrin | Safe For Work? |
| 17:24.55 | clive-h | 11 comes with a full set of gnu tools |
| 17:25.06 | wethrin | oh, well, if you're going to be so modern :-P |
| 17:25.08 | clive-h | software :-( |
| 17:25.41 | clive-h | i'd have thought /opt was more traditional though |
| 17:25.44 | eyore | i hear solaris is going to be "upgraded" to make it look like linux :) |
| 17:26.03 | clive-h | it has gnome |
| 17:26.48 | clive-h | In fact solaris 11 detected the proper resolution on my laptop |
| 17:27.02 | clive-h | whereas I had to fight linux about it |
| 17:27.19 | Leeds | it has x.org - alan coopersmith is one of the core x.org guys nowadays, and has been the main solaris X guy for years |
| 17:27.35 | clive-h | I have x.org |
| 17:27.50 | clive-h | I still have to run 911resolution on linux |
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| 17:52.37 | shuan | hi |
| 17:53.03 | Ch0Hag | there |
| 17:54.18 | eyore | so, any idea how much of a performance hit u get on 32bit linux if you go over the directly addressable memory range? |
| 17:54.20 | eyore | :) |
| 17:55.20 | clive-h | It'll involve context changes |
| 17:56.07 | eyore | i guess it will likely still be much better to have 6 gig ram than 3 gig though? |
| 17:56.25 | clive-h | But memory is already partitioned between the low ram and high ram areas |
| 17:56.52 | clive-h | Do you use the bigmem kernels? |
| 17:57.09 | eyore | I have no idea, using stock FC6 kernel |
| 17:57.24 | clive-h | Errr |
| 17:57.36 | clive-h | Tell me this isn't a production machine |
| 17:57.45 | eyore | of course it is |
| 17:57.52 | clive-h | You're mad |
| 17:58.04 | eyore | I'm an application developer, i don't go around recompiling kernels and manually patching them! |
| 17:58.27 | Ch0Hag | Oh? |
| 17:58.31 | Ch0Hag | Is the kernel not an application? |
| 17:58.43 | clive-h | I wouldn't dream of running FC6 on production kit |
| 17:58.55 | clive-h | I'd choose RHEL 5 or CentOS 5 |
| 17:58.58 | eyore | I mean almost all the stuff is just under package management |
| 17:59.08 | eyore | yes, i plan to switch to centOS during next upgrade |
| 17:59.28 | clive-h | Everything I deploy is packaged |
| 17:59.37 | eyore | i mean, packaged by someone else! |
| 18:00.00 | clive-h | But Fedora is the equivalent of debian-unstable |
| 18:00.29 | clive-h | I package stuff as and when I need to |
| 18:00.46 | eyore | I am not familiar with debian unstable. Fedora only apply security updates and critical fixes to any given release |
| 18:00.53 | eyore | I have had no problems with it |
| 18:01.01 | eyore | except the shorter supported cycled. |
| 18:01.04 | eyore | cycles |
| 18:01.13 | clive-h | It's a test platform for RHEL |
| 18:01.18 | eyore | less problems than when i used to use windows anyway |
| 18:01.22 | eyore | I am aware of that |
| 18:01.44 | clive-h | I wonder if I misread your answer |
| 18:02.11 | Ch0Hag | Heh I know many people who run debian unstable on production machines. |
| 18:02.28 | Ch0Hag | That it's RH based may make it a little worse but no less surprising. |
| 18:02.29 | clive-h | I read 'tell me this isn't a production machine' 'of course it is' as implying it's in production |
| 18:02.59 | eyore | Yes, that is correct. |
| 18:03.54 | eyore | I find it a lot more stable than windows |
| 18:04.04 | eyore | in fact i have had no stability problems with it at all |
| 18:04.43 | clive-h | I use Fc6 daily |
| 18:04.43 | eyore | I find java segfaults once every few months and that's much more "supported" than the linux stuff. |
| 18:04.50 | clive-h | But as my desktop |
| 18:05.44 | eyore | anyways, I don't want to get in a distro war, I think probably centos would be a better choice, although it might mean having to compile some apps manually because the major version of some key packages would be old. |
| 18:05.45 | clive-h | The kernels under Fc6 support smp and bigmem out of the box unlike RHEL 4 where they were seperately packaged |
| 18:05.53 | Ch0Hag | Saying Fedora is more stable than Windows is like saying a mudslide is more stable than an avalance. |
| 18:06.29 | clive-h | I'm a huge fan of Fedora |
| 18:06.37 | Ch0Hag | (and equally - to forestall said distro war - s/Fedora/Sid/) |
| 18:06.52 | eyore | Let me rephrase it then, I have had not stability problems under fedora, that would require me to upgrade to a more stable distro. Although their may be other reasons to switch to distro stability for me is not one of them |
| 18:07.04 | clive-h | However I'm choosy about what I install on production kit |
| 18:07.06 | eyore | I am not saying that because i'm massively pro fedora, i really don't care. |
| 18:07.27 | boudiccas | eyore; try CentOS |
| 18:07.48 | clive-h | I'd choose RHEL 5 or CentOS 5 |
| 18:08.00 | clive-h | at this point in time |
| 18:08.04 | eyore | I'm also quite fussy, the main requirements are minimal time, automatic patching and supported current major versions of tomcat, java, postgresql and squid somewhere already packaged. |
| 18:08.21 | clive-h | Last servers I rolled out were centOS 4.2 |
| 18:08.38 | clive-h | I worry about security |
| 18:09.06 | clive-h | and I'd really rather be sure the server won't be hacked than a quick install |
| 18:09.27 | eyore | I run very little off the shelf software on it, so that is a minimal risk. |
| 18:09.57 | clive-h | Hence I build a stable config and replicate it across the server farm via kickstart |
| 18:10.18 | eyore | That's what I used to do, when i had sys admins and a server farm. |
| 18:10.38 | clive-h | I was the sysadmin |
| 18:10.41 | clive-h | *the* |
| 18:10.44 | eyore | No i'm in a small startup with no sys-admins two servers and my time is precious. |
| 18:10.50 | eyore | no = now |
| 18:13.07 | eyore | Unlikely, but if you did work for my old company you did a very good job ;) |
| 18:13.49 | clive-h | i think probably not else you'd have recognised me |
| 18:16.02 | eyore | I bloody hate databases |
| 18:16.37 | clive-h | I used to dba Oracle on SVR4.2 |
| 18:16.45 | clive-h | It was hellish |
| 18:16.58 | clive-h | stripped and mirrored disks |
| 18:17.12 | clive-h | about 72 1Gb disk drives |
| 18:17.27 | eyore | my entire database could fit in ram, and yet it runs crap. that is databases for you. |
| 18:17.32 | clive-h | raw and AIO on the db partitions |
| 18:17.41 | eyore | well, almost fit maybe |
| 18:17.50 | clive-h | how big is it? |
| 18:18.02 | cpufreak | eeyore: then you're probably doing something wrong. |
| 18:18.04 | eyore | proably about a 1gig something after my latest trim |
| 18:18.57 | eyore | cpufreak: hehe we've had this discussion already. i know i am, i'm running everything else on the same server which is in adviseable if the database relies on OS disk caching. lol |
| 18:19.17 | cpufreak | are the disks on the db server thrashing? |
| 18:19.37 | clive-h | Well you could run the database raw? |
| 18:19.37 | cpufreak | rather than buying 6 gig of ram |
| 18:19.39 | clive-h | cut out the os layer |
| 18:19.42 | cpufreak | why not just buy another server to run the database on? |
| 18:19.58 | cpufreak | even if the 2nd server only has 2gig of ram, it'll still be an improvement |
| 18:20.10 | eyore | cpufreak: normally no, when a query is run and that part of the database is not "warm" then yes, the disks will thrash for between 0.5 seconds and 2 seconds |
| 18:20.25 | eyore | when it is warm the disks won't thrash and the query returns in maybe 70ms. |
| 18:21.05 | eyore | i'm going to try the 6gig ram upgrade since it requires less time and cost. |
| 18:21.05 | clive-h | how big are is the 'critical' portion of the db? |
| 18:21.34 | eyore | definately smaller than 600meg. maybe even only 300meg |
| 18:21.41 | eyore | but they are not constantly accessed |
| 18:21.52 | eyore | and linux uses an LRU model |
| 18:22.01 | eyore | that is another option, a script keeping it warm. |
| 18:22.14 | clive-h | That's not a great idea |
| 18:22.38 | eyore | no, but i know some people that do this for postgresql stuff. |
| 18:22.53 | clive-h | Are the critical bits updated often? |
| 18:23.17 | eyore | fairly, yes |
| 18:23.17 | eyore | maybe once every minute they have a minor update. |
| 18:23.29 | clive-h | Oh right. quite volatile |
| 18:23.48 | eyore | small changes very low IO writes but yes fairly volatile. |
| 18:24.56 | eyore | i have to admit i blame postgresql developers for this |
| 18:25.19 | eyore | even on a massive dedicated database machine it should be possible to focus on worst case times rather than average times |
| 18:25.27 | clive-h | It's free software |
| 18:25.37 | clive-h | You get what you pay for |
| 18:25.57 | eyore | Not entirely true |
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| 18:26.59 | clive-h | You seem, to be whingeing about the developers a lot |
| 18:27.17 | eyore | Well yes but I do that a lot |
| 18:27.26 | clive-h | Feel free to submit patches to make it work as you think it should |
| 18:27.45 | Ch0Hag | Gotta love Free software. |
| 18:27.47 | eyore | All i really mean, this was a design decision in postgresql so I suppose i shouldn't blame the linux caching mechanism |
| 18:27.57 | Ch0Hag | Can't cut an argument short like that with Windows. |
| 18:27.58 | Ch0Hag | :) |
| 18:28.38 | eyore | Really it's a bollocks argument for linux too unless you happen to be a an experienced C and relational database developer with many years experience. Which i'm not |
| 18:28.53 | eyore | I only submit fixes for areas where I can do so in a realistic time |
| 18:28.58 | eyore | such as for tomcat. |
| 18:30.02 | clive-h | Nor am I |
| 18:30.07 | eyore | Generally I prefer the design decisions the postgresql developers made compared to say the mysql developers |
| 18:30.31 | eyore | Perhaps the fact it's so well designed is what makes slight flaws/annoyances stand out more. |
| 18:30.48 | clive-h | If there's funding I'd rather deploy Oracle than either MySQL/PostGres |
| 18:31.09 | eyore | I like using open source stuff |
| 18:31.45 | eyore | I like learning about it, as i feel i can more likely use my knowledge in other small companies, i like fixing things where i can and where i can't i like feeding back what i think can be improved. |
| 18:31.50 | clive-h | I'm not ashamed to use payfor software where there's a business case for doing so |
| 18:32.30 | eyore | Oh i wouldn't be ashamed to, I just prefer using open source where there aren't large disadvantages in doing so |
| 18:32.43 | Ch0Hag | There's a difference between paying for software and paying for propreitary binaries. |
| 18:32.49 | eyore | true |
| 18:33.12 | eyore | I hated using windows |
| 18:33.27 | clive-h | and Oracle relinks the binaries as one of the installation steps |
| 18:33.40 | clive-h | But it's not at all open source |
| 18:33.42 | eyore | Things often are shit (as with open source software) but often you can't work out why and there support was less useful than an IRC channel. |
| 18:34.06 | clive-h | Sometimes there is an IRC channel |
| 18:34.08 | clive-h | Lol |
| 18:34.20 | clive-h | staffed by company employees |
| 18:36.06 | eyore | I'd prefer as much software as possible to be open source, and the commercial companies to offer support and maintenance contracts. |
| 18:36.38 | eyore | so that there is low barriers of entry to small startups like ours but lot's of support for big companies that have oodles of cash. |
| 18:37.04 | clive-h | I built the last server farm using entirely open source |
| 18:37.24 | clive-h | But for that MySQL was entirely appropriate |
| 18:37.30 | Leeds | hmm... Annabel on my mind... oh well, g'night all |
| 18:37.35 | eyore | nn |
| 18:37.35 | clive-h | Low memory footprint |
| 18:38.00 | eyore | postgresql has very low memory footprint, it doesn't cache barely anything internally lol |
| 18:38.15 | eyore | though that was a change I think, it used to do internal caching i think |
| 18:39.54 | clive-h | Well I like MySQL |
| 18:40.02 | eyore | it's not so bad now a days |
| 18:40.10 | cpufreak | its a heap of steaming turd. |
| 18:40.23 | clive-h | and we used it at previous places I worked including what was BBC Tech |
| 18:41.03 | eyore | I heard that since they dropped middle bit and replaced it with something ACID and if you switch the table types and cross your fingers a bit most stuff work properly on it nowadays. |
| 18:41.24 | clive-h | aye |
| 18:41.27 | clive-h | innodb |
| 18:41.36 | eyore | when i used to use it it didn't have subqueries lol. |
| 18:41.48 | clive-h | It is evolving |
| 18:42.10 | clive-h | I've done replication with MySQL |
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| 19:03.08 | eyore | google is doing work for mysql that sounds quite cool |
| 19:03.20 | eyore | to do with managing many boxes. |
| 19:03.26 | clive-h | Yes seen that |
| 19:11.24 | kjalil | hello everyone :-) |
| 19:11.56 | kjalil | clive-h: is mysql's replication reliable? i've read on and off that it is not? |
| 19:11.57 | antiphase | Postgres ought not to have a low memory footprint if you've told it to steal as much RAM as it needs for cache buffers |
| 19:12.12 | clive-h | It's master-slave |
| 19:12.16 | kjalil | antiphase: hello |
| 19:13.07 | clive-h | It's reasonably stable |
| 19:14.09 | kjalil | clive-h: were you doing it across 2 servers on the same site or remote sites? |
| 19:14.50 | clive-h | remote sites |
| 19:15.13 | clive-h | It uses innodb |
| 19:15.18 | clive-h | so it's ACID |
| 19:16.19 | antiphase | I've always found mysql replication to be very reliable |
| 19:16.49 | kjalil | hmm |
| 19:16.50 | antiphase | It only breaks when people alter data on the slaves, or do things which would alter data which isn't slaved |
| 19:17.02 | eyore | antiphase: moving more than about 128 meg from linux to postgres has a serious negative effect on query performance (have tried) people on the postgresql irc channel said this was to be expected. |
| 19:17.07 | clive-h | Yeah you need to avoid that |
| 19:17.37 | kjalil | eyore: from linux to postgres? do you mean from mysql? |
| 19:18.20 | clive-h | There's limited support for dual master mode |
| 19:18.20 | clive-h | I've not tried that |
| 19:18.31 | eyore | No, i mean if you ask postgresql to manage to take more memory for caching/bufers rather than let linux manage it in the form of the disk cache. |
| 19:18.52 | eyore | postgresql has been optimised to let the OS manage the disk caching |
| 19:19.25 | eyore | and to have relatively little "forced/mapped" internal memory caches. |
| 19:19.26 | kjalil | eyore: ah ok |
| 19:19.36 | eyore | to avoid double caching |
| 19:19.51 | eyore | and also because the linux disk caching memory management is generally quite good. |
| 19:20.04 | eyore | i mean the OS disk caching memory management of course. |
| 19:20.07 | antiphase | I guess that would depends on how much total RAM you have. I can't see how definitely having a page in RAM vs having it maybe on disk would be worse |
| 19:20.39 | clive-h | Depends whether you're reading or writing |
| 19:20.46 | antiphase | Worth a go if nothing else :) |
| 19:21.21 | clive-h | and to some extent on the underlying file system |
| 19:21.29 | clive-h | and mount options |
| 19:21.32 | eyore | antiphase: I think there assumption is that linux can make a better decision than postgresql about whether to keep disk blocks in ram since it has a bigger "world view" |
| 19:22.09 | eyore | obviously I have some issues with it though! |
| 19:23.15 | eyore | In a dedicated server with databases much larger than ram (probably the normal case for postgresql?) the way that have designed it probably is optimal |
| 19:23.40 | eyore | since it means that ram isn't wasted double caching (once mapped in postgresql) and once in the OS disk cache. |
| 19:23.42 | antiphase | My issue with it is that if you can allocate enough cache for postgres initially to keep your entire dataset in RAM, it can't possibly be worse than having to retrieve some of it from disk. It depends on having enough left RAM left for whatever else your machine is doing, plus db sort buffers of course |
| 19:24.15 | antiphase | Double buffering is just a "waste" if RAM is expensive and you're not prepared to sacrific it for more performance by having double copies |
| 19:24.39 | eyore | It's wasteful if your database is larger than available ram |
| 19:24.47 | eyore | probably this is a more normal usage case. |
| 19:25.03 | eyore | althouth it also works for databases smaller than ram if there isn't much disk IO on the system |
| 19:25.29 | eyore | the only case where it's worse if where some unimportant disk IO is stealing the OS disk cache and the database is smaller than available ram. |
| 19:25.33 | eyore | eg, my case. |
| 19:25.40 | Ch0Hag | Does anyone know many details of md? |
| 19:25.56 | antiphase | Ch0Hag: You mean software RAID? |
| 19:26.05 | Ch0Hag | If it's reconstructing part of an array, and the source has an IO error, how much does it keep trying until it gives up? |
| 19:26.09 | Ch0Hag | Da. |
| 19:26.37 | Ch0Hag | Or will it just keep going for ever? |
| 19:26.44 | antiphase | I've come across that before, and I can't remember the amswer |
| 19:26.50 | antiphase | I think the answer is no |
| 19:27.09 | Ch0Hag | Well that's something at least. |
| 19:28.03 | antiphase | For safety, I'd get the stuff off it asap and start again |
| 19:28.23 | Ch0Hag | Oh there's nothing on it. |
| 19:28.58 | Ch0Hag | It's a fresh install, you need to jump through some hoops to get md on sparc, but one of the hoops has turned out to be a broken disc. |
| 19:30.55 | antiphase | Linux on sparc? ph33r |
| 19:30.55 | Ch0Hag | I just don't want to start again. Not least because the system in question is nearly 20 miles away so swapping the disc will be an irritation. |
| 19:30.55 | wethrin | antiphase: Seems to work fine on one of my Ultra5s :) |
| 19:31.10 | Ch0Hag | Oh we've had no problems with it. |
| 19:31.10 | antiphase | It's nearly as perverse as running SunOS on Intel :P |
| 19:31.22 | clive-h | What distro on sparc? |
| 19:31.22 | Ch0Hag | Except that the debian installer get upset at any even vaguely complicated partitioning. |
| 19:31.23 | clive-h | Oh gawd debian |
| 19:31.23 | Ch0Hag | And the whole partition-3-as-whole-disc gets right on my nerves. |
| 19:31.39 | Ch0Hag | Plus I don't like silo. |
| 19:31.42 | antiphase | 3 as in 2? |
| 19:31.46 | clive-h | It's not mandatory |
| 19:31.53 | clive-h | slice 2 |
| 19:32.05 | clive-h | you can use s2 |
| 19:32.21 | clive-h | It's just not recommended |
| 19:32.28 | Ch0Hag | Sorry, yes, 2. |
| 19:33.10 | Ch0Hag | Well I thought so, but I don't want to risk upsetting anything. |
| 19:33.21 | Ch0Hag | But it's the fact that I even could which annoys me. |
| 19:33.58 | clive-h | I gave up having seperate partitions for /,/usr etc a while back |
| 19:34.13 | clive-h | I still make /var seperate |
| 19:34.47 | Ch0Hag | /, /boot, /var and /home |
| 19:34.56 | Ch0Hag | Maybe /home |
| 19:35.11 | clive-h | It depends a little on what you need to do |
| 19:35.21 | Ch0Hag | Aye. |
| 19:35.50 | clive-h | But making / and /usr seperate is probably not a good idea normally npw |
| 19:36.11 | clive-h | *now |
| 19:36.13 | kjalil | clive-h: what do sysadmins normally do nowadays? i know /var might be a good idea |
| 19:36.15 | Ch0Hag | Usually not. |
| 19:36.33 | Ch0Hag | Some systems, especially general-type servers, I have /usr separate and read-only. |
| 19:36.45 | kjalil | clive-h: the problem with / and /usr is probably because /usr will grow, etc? |
| 19:36.59 | clive-h | It does depend on the OS |
| 19:37.07 | kjalil | clive-h: or can lvm and things be used to alleviate this? |
| 19:37.18 | clive-h | lvm helps yes |
| 19:38.05 | clive-h | It depends a bit on how you treat /opt and /usr |
| 19:38.29 | clive-h | I normally look at what I'm gonna have to install |
| 19:38.34 | kjalil | clive-h: hmm, yeah I just installed debian on an ancient laptop of mine to run a mail/dns server. it is the first time i have set up lvm ever. |
| 19:38.47 | antiphase | /var is worthwhile to prevfent logs filling up / |
| 19:39.01 | clive-h | Yes that's why I do /var |
| 19:39.08 | antiphase | Debian-a-likes seem to like putting install stuff in there though :( |
| 19:39.14 | antiphase | /var/lib/mailman anyone? |
| 19:39.30 | kjalil | antiphase: how about /var/cache/apt/archives :) |
| 19:39.40 | clive-h | RH derived oses put loads in /var too |
| 19:39.48 | antiphase | No, that's fair as variable data |
| 19:39.59 | antiphase | It's when executable crap gets stuffed in there I get annoyed |
| 19:40.00 | kjalil | what exactly is /opt supposed to be for, why not use /usr/local ? |
| 19:40.13 | antiphase | /opt is the new /usr/local |
| 19:40.24 | clive-h | heh /opt is for non vendor supplied binaries |
| 19:40.29 | antiphase | I forget the TLA for the magical new scheme (HFS?) |
| 19:40.40 | clive-h | and /usr/local for local binaries |
| 19:40.41 | kjalil | clive-h: yeah that's what i thought |
| 19:42.10 | clive-h | If it's mirroring Solaris |
| 19:43.40 | clive-h | the original sparcs (SS1s) had 2x105Mb hard disks |
| 19:44.03 | clive-h | If / failed to fsck you had to boot from cdrom |
| 19:44.10 | kjalil | clive-h: seems you have been around a long time :) |
| 19:44.17 | clive-h | since /usr was on the other disk |
| 19:44.36 | clive-h | I've worked in IT since 1984 |
| 19:44.51 | kjalil | clive-h: have we met? i've been to a few meetings |
| 19:44.52 | clive-h | As a unix sysadmin for 15 years |
| 19:45.16 | hali | clive-h: you hada cdrom? the luxury... boot tape :-) |
| 19:45.20 | kjalil | clive-h: wicked |
| 19:45.26 | hali | qic150 ftw! |
| 19:46.09 | clive-h | Haha I recall boot from tape on ICL DRS 3000 and Pyramid's |
| 19:46.09 | kjalil | clive-h: can i ask you some sysadmin questions then? i'm trying to change jobs to sysadming but i'm not sure of the skills i need |
| 19:46.10 | clive-h | I used to go to meets when they were in Docklands |
| 19:46.24 | clive-h | I'll help if I can sure |
| 19:47.07 | boudiccas | clive-h; you worked on pyramids! wow! |
| 19:47.10 | kjalil | clive-h: i'm currently doing some sysadmining, some java programming, but i think i want to try more sysadmining if possible |
| 19:47.30 | clive-h | One day I got told the sysadmins at ICL Feltham had restored x86 DRS/NX binaries to sparc DRS/NX |
| 19:47.41 | kjalil | clive-h: i'm not sure what my first step should be? should i get certs, or pass my cv around or what? |
| 19:47.41 | clive-h | I laughed till I cried |
| 19:47.55 | clive-h | Pass your CV around |
| 19:48.17 | kjalil | clive-h: around where? i'm not sure what is dodgy and not? |
| 19:48.50 | clive-h | The trend these days to hire people is to ask for a telephone interview first |
| 19:49.03 | clive-h | To weed out the wannabes |
| 19:49.21 | antiphase | You could slam your CV on a load of pimp sites as well, that's good for getting some phone interviews |
| 19:49.36 | kjalil | clive-h: someone i know once configured a server with completely wrong IP addresses and installed it in a data center. it brought down many other servers in the data center because ofsome IP conflict and the manager was on the phone cussing wildly :) |
| 19:49.51 | kjalil | boudiccas: hello |
| 19:49.58 | boudiccas | kjalil; hiyas :) |
| 19:50.13 | clive-h | boudiccas no offence but the job you're going for is perfectly suited to a wannabee |
| 19:50.22 | boudiccas | i'm just lurking and chiming in with the odd humurous quip |
| 19:50.29 | clive-h | so that's cool |
| 19:50.29 | kjalil | antiphase: which short list? |
| 19:50.41 | antiphase | It was a joke. You never know who's listening ;) |
| 19:50.51 | clive-h | well if it was just cursing |
| 19:50.58 | clive-h | he was lucky |
| 19:51.14 | boudiccas | clive-h; i'm too old to go into sysadmining, i've only got just over 5 years to go before I retire |
| 19:51.28 | clive-h | good for you |
| 19:51.31 | kjalil | clive-h: actually it was someone clueless who I advised not to do what they did, but hey |
| 19:51.54 | boudiccas | so the job i'm after is on the fringe of IT |
| 19:52.14 | clive-h | so you have my best wishes , hope you get it |
| 19:52.14 | antiphase | kjalil: You'd do well to home your shell and Perl skillz too |
| 19:52.23 | kjalil | clive-h: would you mind if I send you a first draft of my cv? i'm just trying to bounce off ideas and opinions here |
| 19:52.24 | boudiccas | but i'm unsure whether to take it because its [a] contract work, and [b] shift work |
| 19:52.25 | antiphase | s/home/hone/ |
| 19:52.40 | kjalil | antiphase: well,i've written some perl and python, but it's been a while |
| 19:53.02 | kjalil | antiphase: ah, i remember back in 1999 when I wrote my own perl for my own blog :) |
| 19:53.02 | clive-h | I'm looking for work too, I couldn't hire you |
| 19:53.21 | clive-h | I wrote my first perl, v4, script in 1996 |
| 19:53.50 | kjalil | clive-h: ah, no i meant for opinions as to if I'm crap, or if I'm not suitable for sysadmining or whatever |
| 19:53.53 | clive-h | It's still configuring my-ex employers DNS zones |
| 19:54.07 | clive-h | Which says more about them than me |
| 19:54.32 | clive-h | I recall my last review there 'you write stuff in perl' |
| 19:54.40 | clive-h | That was bad apparently |
| 19:54.43 | kjalil | clive-h: yeah, my first was in 1997 |
| 19:55.49 | clive-h | If I'd done it in awk and shell it'd have been an ugly maze of twisty little scripts |
| 19:56.15 | kjalil | clive-h: so I should definitely hone perl and shell scripts then before I start looking |
| 19:56.44 | clive-h | As a *nix sysadmin you'll need shell |
| 19:56.56 | clive-h | perl is a useful skill too |
| 19:57.22 | kjalil | clive-h: how about configuring bind and postfix and spamassassin etc? should i learn that for applying? i know some of that already |
| 19:57.27 | boudiccas | what about python? |
| 19:57.27 | antiphase | And mad skillz on whatever OS you hope to administer, plus the software that your target company deploy that you'll be expected to manage |
| 19:57.45 | clive-h | well bind is good |
| 19:57.45 | antiphase | Python doesn't come as standard on old machines |
| 19:57.52 | kjalil | antiphase: you can't learn everything at home, like hardware raid or lights out management |
| 19:58.03 | wethrin | Yes you can |
| 19:58.07 | wethrin | :) |
| 19:58.10 | kjalil | wethrin: hello :) |
| 19:58.14 | clive-h | Depends on the environment as to what MTA is good |
| 19:58.15 | antiphase | Maybe not but they're pretty simple concepts |
| 19:58.30 | wethrin | hi kjalil |
| 19:58.31 | clive-h | I tend to work in shops that run sendmail |
| 19:58.42 | kjalil | clive-h: sendmail gives me the creeps |
| 19:58.47 | clive-h | But I'm adaptable |
| 19:58.49 | wethrin | Get yourself a Netra T1. They're cheap. |
| 19:58.53 | clive-h | why? |
| 19:58.59 | antiphase | I prefer Exim. By a lot. |
| 19:59.05 | clive-h | sendmail + m4 is okay |
| 19:59.16 | kjalil | clive-h: nah, i never tried to learn the syntax is all. |
| 19:59.24 | kjalil | antiphase: you prefer exim to postfix? |
| 19:59.31 | clive-h | I'd not edit /etc/mail/sendmail.cf directly now |
| 19:59.43 | clive-h | Though I do understand it |
| 19:59.47 | antiphase | Exim rules, once you get your head round it |
| 20:00.13 | antiphase | If for no other reason than the control file is logical and sequential |
| 20:00.18 | clive-h | spamassassin is good if you're running a mailserver |
| 20:00.23 | antiphase | And utterly flexible in every way |
| 20:00.39 | kjalil | wethrin: bbiab |
| 20:00.44 | kjalil | oops |
| 20:10.58 | kjalil | right |
| 20:13.00 | antiphase | arrrrrr |
| 20:17.41 | kjalil | antiphase: you've been gritting your teeth for a long time |
| 20:18.34 | antiphase | Certainly |
| 20:18.56 | antiphase | Have you considered Java Anonymous to get over your addiction? |
| 20:19.33 | kjalil | antiphase: ?? |
| 20:21.25 | antiphase | Denial is the first step ;) |
| 20:23.28 | kjalil | hmm, you know i've met simon morris but i've never seen him on irc |
| 20:24.11 | antiphase | He used to come here, then he left |
| 20:25.43 | boudiccas | kjalil; his nick is 'mozrat' |
| 20:25.49 | boudiccas | !seen mozrat |
| 20:25.59 | boudiccas | ,seen mozrat |
| 20:26.07 | boudiccas | .seen mozrat |
| 20:26.07 | antiphase | ibot, wake up ibot |
| 20:26.15 | ibot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on up ibot and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
| 20:26.24 | boudiccas | obviously i haven't got the right syntax |
| 20:26.40 | boudiccas | seen mozrat |
| 20:26.54 | boudiccas | nope, still don't work |
| 20:27.53 | antiphase | ibot is shit |
| 20:28.08 | kjalil | boudiccas: yeah, i don't remember the syntax either |
| 20:28.09 | kjalil | was it with an @ ? |
| 20:28.09 | boudiccas | looking at the channel members i see mozrat is still here, but just lurking |
| 20:28.14 | kjalil | can't we ask ibot for help? |
| 20:28.14 | kjalil | i mean a help command |
| 20:28.15 | antiphase | ibot, seen mozrat |
| 20:28.39 | ibot | mozrat is currently on #gllug (1d 16h 56m 56s), last said: 'how are you?'. |
| 20:28.40 | boudiccas | why bother, mozzie is still here :) |
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| 20:30.14 | boudiccas | obviously got to preface the command with ibot |
| 20:36.37 | clive-h | bind is easy enough |
| 20:37.23 | kjalil | clive-h: i'm trying to finish reading the oreilly book, then postfix then nfs, then shell stuff and perl i think |
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| 20:37.40 | clive-h | oreilly book? |
| 20:38.11 | clive-h | Oh DNS and Bind# |
| 20:38.51 | clive-h | I've even met Tim O'Reilly once |
| 20:42.14 | kjalil | clive-h: yeah, lovely books. i'm trying not to buy anymore though. I like the accessibility of using Safari to read them almost anywhere but the Tube :( |
| 20:42.37 | clive-h | I like paper books |
| 20:43.16 | kjalil | clive-h: yeah, but when moving all my books were too much of a pain, nothing was more heavier. so I'm trying not to buy unless I have to |
| 20:43.36 | clive-h | I normally use pdfs now |
| 20:43.55 | kjalil | clive-h: have you found anything nice and compact that is a good portable pdf reader? |
| 20:44.33 | antiphase | xpdf on a laptop |
| 20:44.36 | kjalil | a laptop maybe. |
| 20:45.04 | antiphase | I think it's less tiring to read from dead tree books |
| 20:45.07 | kjalil | i tried on a windows mobile pda but the screen wasn't big enough and the UMPCs are too expensive. what about the sony reader? |
| 20:45.27 | clive-h | xpdf yes |
| 20:45.28 | kjalil | i don't think you can buy that in the UK |
| 20:45.36 | clive-h | I prefer dead tree books |
| 20:45.36 | boudiccas | kjalil; a palm m130 |
| 20:45.49 | kjalil | boudiccas: pdfs? |
| 20:45.51 | clive-h | If I'm actually gonna read em |
| 20:46.28 | boudiccas | from memory yes. if you can load it on then you can probably find a reader to read them |
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| 21:26.50 | wethrin | Heh |
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| 22:02.56 | george | hrmm |
| 22:03.07 | antiphase | hurr? |
| 22:03.10 | george | hi |
| 22:03.34 | george | gregj's been stalking me all month |
| 22:05.04 | wethrin | george! |
| 22:05.09 | george | hi wethrin |
| 22:05.11 | wethrin | Revising hard? |
| 22:05.14 | george | wethrin: nope |
| 22:05.19 | wethrin | Shooting things? |
| 22:05.19 | george | wethrin: I bought a rifle on saturday though :D |
| 22:05.23 | wethrin | Hurrah! |
| 22:05.37 | george | wethrin: I went to go try it out at Bisley... broke my personal record four times in a row. |
| 22:05.46 | george | wethrin: "hrm, that's a pretty convincing reason that I should buy it" |
| 22:06.12 | wethrin | personal record for what? |
| 22:06.16 | george | wethrin: 600 yards |
| 22:06.49 | george | wethrin: also, I got a first in my beginning of term mocks |
| 22:06.56 | george | wethrin: I think my director of studies was a bit shocked |
| 22:07.01 | wethrin | Cool. I thought you were heading for a fail |
| 22:07.13 | george | wethrin: all, I did do about 6 hours the day before *g* :) |
| 22:07.30 | wethrin | lazy :-P |
| 22:07.35 | george | wethrin: bah |
| 22:08.16 | george | also no longer in a cast |
| 22:09.10 | wethrin | Is that your excuse for not being on IRC? |
| 22:10.10 | george | wethrin: well, the fact that I NEED TO DO SOME FUCKING WORK ARRGHH" |
| 22:10.32 | wethrin | Ha! |
| 22:11.17 | wethrin | Work's overrated |
| 22:11.20 | george | no |
| 22:11.22 | george | I want a first damn it |
| 22:11.54 | wethrin | Firsts are overrated. All the best people get a Desmond |
| 22:12.50 | george | wethrin: but but but but a first from cambridge would be awesome |
| 22:13.09 | wethrin | It won't help you get lai^Wa job |
| 22:13.36 | george | wethrin: it'll help me get into a postgrad program at a decent US uni though :P |
| 22:13.55 | wethrin | You just want to go there for the guns :-P |
| 22:13.59 | george | wethrin: why? |
| 22:14.02 | george | wethrin: I already have them here. |
| 22:14.13 | wethrin | Ah, but you can't conceal them :) |
| 22:14.21 | george | anyway, after last saturday I'm now 1700 pounds poorer |
| 22:14.31 | wethrin | ow! |
| 22:14.45 | george | 1550 for rifle, 48 for ammo, 20 for train ticket, 56 for target hire |
| 22:14.47 | george | etc. |
| 22:16.51 | wethrin | Still, ow |
| 22:17.01 | gregj | george: :> |
| 22:17.17 | george | gregj: weirdo |
| 22:18.02 | wethrin | ! |
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| 22:27.35 | george | gregj: hungry? :P |
| 22:27.50 | gregj | exams are close, and george is looking for any sort of excuse just not to learn |
| 22:27.58 | gregj | yeah, just got a toast |
| 22:28.11 | george | me? not to learn? |
| 22:28.11 | george | lies |
| 22:30.26 | gregj | but I will slowly persuade meself to go to sleep |
| 22:30.30 | george | haha |
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