| 00:15.15 | Leeds | foo |
| 00:25.07 | veera | hey Leeds |
| 00:25.13 | veera | how r u? |
| 00:31.54 | Leeds | not in the mood to go to work... |
| 00:33.18 | veera | where r u? |
| 00:33.23 | veera | still in Hong Kong |
| 00:34.00 | Leeds | yup |
| 00:34.20 | veera | cool |
| 00:34.22 | Leeds | became a legal resident again on Saturday :-) |
| 00:34.30 | veera | having good time there |
| 00:35.04 | Leeds | it's a real party town... things calm down a little in the summer because a lot of people go away to escape the weather |
| 00:35.28 | Leeds | hot'n'humid with heavy rain, except this has been a dry year so far |
| 00:37.56 | veera | cool |
| 00:38.04 | veera | will u come back to UK |
| 00:38.06 | veera | or no |
| 00:39.40 | Leeds | not to live, no |
| 00:40.16 | Leeds | I'll be passing through at the end of this month though |
| 00:40.47 | Leeds | anyway, time to go |
| 00:54.18 | veera | see u later |
| 02:33.09 | *** join/#gllug ceronman (n=ceronman@190.5.196.172) |
| 06:32.24 | morsing | veera! |
| 06:49.06 | *** join/#gllug polyunix (n=egor@87.127.26.43) |
| 07:29.32 | polyunix | morning world! |
| 07:41.53 | *** join/#gllug JohnDoe666 (n=JohnDoe6@p54873DAA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:45.01 | *** join/#gllug SlayerXP (n=martin@gw-colt.fotango.com) |
| 08:03.16 | morsing | polyunix! |
| 08:03.20 | morsing | SlayerXP! |
| 08:03.51 | polyunix | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:07.22 | antiphase | Wod up homies |
| 09:01.22 | *** join/#gllug jcookeman (n=jcook@83.244.128.126) |
| 09:09.46 | *** join/#gllug AnneC (n=AnneC@cmarfw01.marlow.spinvox.com) |
| 09:11.56 | jcookeman | good morning all |
| 09:36.21 | *** join/#gllug huw-l (n=huw@novatech.cs.cf.ac.uk) |
| 09:41.50 | morsing | huw-l! |
| 09:41.52 | morsing | AnneC! |
| 09:41.55 | morsing | jcookeman! |
| 09:42.13 | morsing | antiphase: How are you? |
| 09:42.20 | AnneC | hey morsing |
| 09:45.21 | antiphase | Top hole, old bean |
| 09:49.38 | *** join/#gllug goibhniu (n=cillian@87-194-36-120.bethere.co.uk) |
| 09:51.18 | jcookeman | morsing! |
| 09:57.00 | wethrin | Hello |
| 10:03.55 | morsing | wethrin |
| 10:03.56 | morsing | ! |
| 10:03.58 | wethrin | morsing! |
| 10:04.00 | morsing | wethrin: What happened? |
| 10:04.04 | wethrin | What? |
| 10:14.31 | morsing | Up before dusk? |
| 10:16.03 | morsing | ibot clandestine |
| 10:16.05 | wethrin | Oi :-P |
| 10:21.56 | gw280 | morsing: sod off |
| 10:22.19 | wethrin | gw280! |
| 10:22.40 | gw280 | I ought to head into work |
| 10:22.58 | wethrin | work? :) |
| 10:23.03 | wethrin | Where're you working? |
| 10:23.35 | gw280 | collabora.co.uk |
| 10:24.29 | wethrin | doing programming stuff? |
| 10:31.35 | gw280 | supposed to be |
| 10:33.35 | wethrin | but you're a teaboy? |
| 10:36.10 | gw280 | wethrin: no |
| 10:36.19 | gw280 | wethrin: I'm working on standardising APIs at the moment |
| 10:36.39 | wethrin | oh dear |
| 10:40.45 | morsing | gw280: WORK?!? |
| 10:41.49 | gw280 | right, I'm off |
| 10:41.55 | wethrin | Have fun |
| 10:46.21 | morsing | Fuck off |
| 10:48.05 | wethrin | ? |
| 10:54.38 | wethrin | rhowe! |
| 10:54.54 | wethrin | You needing a lift up to the Peak District? |
| 10:55.25 | hali | ocs is ok, but a f*cking hassle to configure and maintain |
| 10:55.34 | hali | and the license cost is quite high |
| 11:01.55 | rhowe | wethrin: Hmm |
| 11:01.57 | rhowe | wethrin: When? |
| 11:02.28 | rhowe | hali: I'm just wondering if it's a bit more flexible than, say, Exchange |
| 11:02.50 | rhowe | hali: Gonna try installing it and then writing some stuff to mess with the calendar |
| 11:04.57 | hali | it's better than exchange if you spend time with it, since it's based on oc4j you can customize it to bits |
| 11:15.26 | wethrin | rhowe: 10th August |
| 11:19.18 | rhowe | wethrin: Well if you're setting off after 4pm, sure |
| 11:19.30 | rhowe | wethrin: I doubt I can get time off work to leave any earlier |
| 11:21.05 | wethrin | yeah. It's whenever morsing leaves work :) |
| 11:21.19 | wethrin | I believe he'll be picking me up from Beaconsfield |
| 11:21.23 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 11:22.03 | rhowe | wethrin: Hmm, cool |
| 11:22.55 | wethrin | think you might be able to make your way to that side of London? |
| 11:38.02 | rhowe | I would expect so |
| 11:41.56 | wethrin | hurrah! |
| 11:42.05 | wethrin | and you're not too far from Castleton, then? |
| 11:42.40 | wethrin | I've booked the B&B for myself and morsing already |
| 11:43.14 | rhowe | Only around 20mins drive |
| 11:43.21 | rhowe | Might even be able to bike it |
| 11:44.12 | wethrin | cool |
| 11:44.15 | wethrin | Right. Lunchtime. |
| 11:49.43 | gw280 | so, no one was in the office |
| 12:21.59 | *** join/#gllug flips_and_rails (n=stu@cv-kraken.cv.ic.ac.uk) |
| 12:45.28 | gw280 | right, I'm finally in the office |
| 12:45.39 | z00dax | gw280: office ? |
| 12:45.45 | gw280 | I work |
| 12:45.55 | z00dax | no, really - what office ? |
| 12:46.16 | gw280 | collabora.co.uk |
| 12:47.21 | z00dax | cool, any fun ? |
| 12:48.16 | gw280 | fantastic fun :P |
| 12:48.28 | z00dax | nice |
| 12:48.42 | z00dax | fun work is the best kinda work there is! |
| 12:48.50 | gw280 | :P |
| 12:49.23 | gw280 | I may well be in Bisley |
| 12:49.25 | *** join/#gllug JosefAssad (n=jassad@62.135.92.220) |
| 12:49.27 | gw280 | for the open target rifle meeting |
| 12:51.50 | JosefAssad | 'lo |
| 13:08.26 | wethrin | z00dax!! |
| 13:12.21 | veera | hi all |
| 13:15.52 | veera | every one busy at office |
| 13:16.25 | wethrin | Something like that :) |
| 13:16.50 | dick_turpin | veera: I'm busy writing to my blog in works time! does that count? |
| 13:16.52 | JosefAssad | where office means home, sure. |
| 13:17.23 | veera | cool |
| 13:17.38 | veera | what is ur blog address dick_turpin |
| 13:18.11 | dick_turpin | veera: http://www.cannon-linux.co.uk |
| 13:19.04 | z00dax | wethrin: ! |
| 13:19.28 | wethrin | z00dax: Fancy giving a talk on the 22nd? |
| 13:19.57 | z00dax | I might not be here, i might be in .se from the 21st to the 28th |
| 13:20.31 | z00dax | how about I confirm in a few days time once i find out for sure ? |
| 13:21.20 | wethrin | sure |
| 13:21.28 | wethrin | I haven't heard back from Sean if the lecture theatres are available |
| 13:21.40 | wethrin | I'll prod him by personal mail later this week if I don't hear back |
| 13:22.04 | z00dax | awrite. |
| 13:22.15 | z00dax | btw, when's linuxexpo this year ? |
| 13:22.59 | wethrin | October sometime |
| 13:23.04 | z00dax | end'ish Oct... so thats far enough |
| 13:23.05 | z00dax | yea |
| 13:23.19 | veera | cool blog dick_turpin |
| 13:23.28 | veera | also i heard there is a social meeting |
| 13:23.35 | veera | on thursday |
| 13:24.11 | wethrin | A London.pm social, yes |
| 13:24.11 | dick_turpin | veera: Thanks that'll be £37.50 please, will you be paying cash or credit card? ;-) |
| 13:24.46 | veera | paypal :) |
| 13:25.06 | dick_turpin | veera: That'll do nicely |
| 13:25.27 | veera | what u do by the way |
| 13:25.32 | veera | i mean where u wrok |
| 13:26.01 | dick_turpin | veera: Sales Manager for an IT Solutions provider |
| 13:26.29 | veera | cool |
| 13:26.48 | veera | how much does I.T sales person get paied per annum |
| 13:26.54 | veera | is it depends upon sales |
| 13:27.40 | boudiccas | he gets paid in sausages |
| 13:27.59 | wethrin | sossidges! |
| 13:28.12 | boudiccas | thats right wethrin :) |
| 13:28.12 | dick_turpin | veera: Not being funny but thats between me and the tax man, however I'd love to have Leeds Tax Bill as a wage :-P |
| 13:32.40 | jcookeman | anyone out there with some clever use of expect in scripts? |
| 13:33.07 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: sossidges |
| 13:33.43 | veera | i just want to know dick, is that sales depends upon commision based? |
| 13:33.53 | veera | is it same like normal sales? |
| 13:34.44 | z00dax | absolutely :) |
| 13:35.35 | dick_turpin | veera: I'm not on commission as such, I get "Look After" if you catch my drift. I've had jobs that are commission based and not eaten for weeks on end |
| 13:37.02 | dick_turpin | veera: If its advice your looking for I suggest a high basic and low commission unless of course your a real Hot Shot or like living by the seat of your pants |
| 13:37.41 | veera | What does the Basic start like? |
| 13:39.06 | dick_turpin | veera: Thats like asking "How long is a piece of string?" it depends on age, exp blah blah blah |
| 13:40.21 | veera | say age =24 exp = none |
| 13:40.28 | veera | as a fresher |
| 13:40.35 | JosefAssad | expect? I don't hear of many people using that for anything other than automating feeding passwords to interactive programs |
| 13:43.03 | z00dax | JosefAssad: which is mostly a bad idea |
| 13:43.19 | JosefAssad | z00dax: I know that, but a lot of people don't :) |
| 13:43.49 | dick_turpin | veera: Up here in the Midlands I'd probably start you on 12-13K with the usual cobblers of £35k OTE (On Target Earnings) |
| 13:43.50 | JosefAssad | cananyone think of a reason why using something like revelation (password manager) would be a bad idea? Assuming the master password is really good, that is |
| 13:44.29 | dick_turpin | JosefAssad: Yes, use Keepaas X its way better |
| 13:44.37 | boudiccas | revelation appears to be no longer supported |
| 13:44.38 | dick_turpin | keepassx |
| 13:44.58 | JosefAssad | oh, okay. I'll look at that. But conceptually, password managers |
| 13:45.49 | *** join/#gllug mylesbraithwaite (n=mylesbra@CPE0050181121d5-CM0012254493da.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 13:46.02 | boudiccas | why not an OOo document with a password on it? go the simple route |
| 13:46.27 | z00dax | JosefAssad: the whole idea of passwords is a bit strange these days - |
| 13:46.38 | dick_turpin | JosefAssad: I use keepassx for work and personal |
| 13:47.01 | z00dax | considering the $govt can basically make you give them everything they want anyway |
| 13:47.27 | z00dax | or anyone who pretends, aligns themselves, or is blessed by the $govt |
| 13:55.18 | boudiccas | dick_turpin; i just had a look at keepassx and there doesn't appear to be any make or configuration scripts. so it seems imposible to build from source! |
| 13:55.28 | boudiccas | so i've deleted it |
| 13:55.36 | morsing | mylesbraithwaite! |
| 13:55.41 | morsing | boudiccas! |
| 13:55.43 | morsing | z00dax: |
| 13:55.44 | morsing | ! |
| 13:55.50 | z00dax | morsing: check it! |
| 13:55.53 | jcookeman | feeding passwords is not a bad idea when it's a script feeding passwords to something such as ssh |
| 13:56.12 | morsing | Beer |
| 13:56.19 | jcookeman | yes. beer. |
| 13:56.21 | niv_one_three | wish I had ber |
| 13:56.22 | z00dax | jcookeman: use a password less key in that case |
| 13:56.24 | niv_one_three | beer |
| 13:56.30 | z00dax | cider! |
| 13:56.41 | wethrin | zoider? |
| 13:56.46 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: You numptey it runs natively I run it off my USB drive. you can install if you want but there is no need |
| 13:57.11 | jcookeman | z00dax why? I can prompt the user for the password in the script and send it to several different connections. The reason this is necessary is because passphrase-less keys are dangerous |
| 13:58.11 | z00dax | jcookeman: use ssh-agent and import the key into that then :) |
| 13:58.18 | morsing | wethrin: Go back to bed! |
| 13:58.21 | wethrin | No! |
| 13:58.28 | boudiccas | i couldn't see what to run, but anyways its history now :) i just use an openoffice document |
| 13:58.36 | niv_one_three | wethrin : sleep issues? |
| 13:58.53 | wethrin | no. morsing just thinks I'm a student, therefore shouldn't get up before pubtime |
| 13:58.55 | morsing | And had coffee |
| 13:58.57 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: Whatever floats your boat |
| 13:59.01 | z00dax | morsing: wtf ? |
| 13:59.02 | jcookeman | I know what ssh-agent is |
| 13:59.05 | jcookeman | but you cannot use it with sudo |
| 13:59.27 | morsing | z00dax: ? |
| 13:59.42 | z00dax | morsing: who's courtyard were you nosing around in ? |
| 13:59.54 | morsing | King's Head |
| 13:59.58 | antiphase | passphraseless keys are no more dangerous than having a password in a script |
| 14:00.04 | antiphase | Silly boy |
| 14:00.04 | morsing | antiphase: Beer |
| 14:00.07 | z00dax | morsing: any good ? |
| 14:00.10 | antiphase | Beer is good |
| 14:00.12 | morsing | z00dax: Yup |
| 14:00.19 | wethrin | ibot beer |
| 14:00.20 | ibot | ACTION has disconnected (Read error: 99 (Connection reset by beer)) |
| 14:00.23 | morsing | But the buildings were closed today |
| 14:00.44 | z00dax | jcookeman: humm, well - its always possible to find fringe cases - i believe the point was that having passwords in expect scripts ia a bad idea |
| 14:01.01 | jcookeman | it's not in the script |
| 14:01.08 | z00dax | also, if you need to use ssh-agent and such via sudo, there is a very high possibility of bad design to start with |
| 14:01.28 | jcookeman | the script asks for the password and maintains the password in memory. theoretically this can be compromised -- yes -- but albeit very improbably |
| 14:01.32 | antiphase | If you want to do anything remotely you always have to cater for the possibility that someone will get root and misuse it, but you'd be so fucked by that anyway it's not worth worrying about |
| 14:01.47 | jcookeman | exactly |
| 14:01.54 | jcookeman | which is why I dont want passwordless keys |
| 14:02.09 | antiphase | They won't help you when your box gets owned |
| 14:02.46 | *** join/#gllug mylesbraithwaite (n=mylesbra@CPE0050181121d5-CM0012254493da.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 14:02.56 | veera | any body looking to buy N95 |
| 14:03.03 | veera | unbranded and unlocked one |
| 14:03.05 | antiphase | Of course your remote process need not run as root, and you can set the commands it may run in the public key |
| 14:03.11 | veera | a week used |
| 14:03.23 | jcookeman | and since when is ssh-agent and sudo have anything to do with each other? |
| 14:13.45 | morsing | veera: That car is almost 10 years old. How much do you want for it? |
| 14:19.52 | veera | man i am talking about Nokia N95 Mobile |
| 14:20.27 | antiphase | Where did you nick it from? |
| 14:20.42 | dick_turpin | antiphase: lol |
| 14:21.43 | veera | i bought on my Uni campus |
| 14:21.51 | veera | from mobilephonesdirect |
| 14:22.04 | veera | unlocked one |
| 14:22.06 | murb | veera: now y'll be paying for the rest of your life. |
| 14:22.09 | veera | unbranded one |
| 14:22.14 | murb | if it is like the typical contracts you get oncampus. |
| 14:22.23 | veera | i didn't get a contract though |
| 14:22.30 | veera | it is a sim free phone |
| 14:22.34 | veera | i hate contracts |
| 14:24.33 | z00dax | my e61 has been mostly quite good, for the year and a half I've had it now. need to think about an upgrade or something soon |
| 14:28.13 | dick_turpin | Some Italian swine has my Razor V3 Got a Nokia 6300 now |
| 14:29.03 | veera | how r u antiphase |
| 14:29.30 | antiphase | Not bad. I'm not feeling like buying any secondhand phones though |
| 14:29.42 | antiphase | Not unless it's really cheap |
| 14:31.18 | jcookeman | N95 has awful battery life |
| 14:31.34 | antiphase | Try eBay |
| 14:31.43 | JosefAssad | e61i battery life is actually pretty good for what it can do |
| 14:31.45 | veera | which network most of u prefer |
| 14:31.52 | jcookeman | Most people I know that have bought one are not happy |
| 14:31.58 | wethrin | All networks suck |
| 14:32.15 | veera | lol |
| 14:33.16 | jcookeman | wethrin: true dat! |
| 14:33.25 | jcookeman | ibot: piss on mobile carriers |
| 14:33.25 | ibot | ACTION pisses on mobile carriers |
| 14:34.13 | veera | three is cheap, but lacks mobiles |
| 14:34.43 | veera | they introduce some nasty rules all of the sudden. |
| 14:34.54 | veera | 25£ to change your tarrif |
| 14:35.03 | veera | admin. charge! heloooooooooooooooo |
| 14:42.45 | murb | like PAYG contracts that steal you rcredit and your number if you don't make a chargable call for 5 minutes. |
| 14:43.29 | gw280 | hrmmmmmmm |
| 14:44.10 | murb | i had my cellnet number from when they first introduced this PAYG scam. |
| 14:44.30 | murb | funny it seems they changed their terms lots of times between then and this year without informing me :( |
| 14:44.34 | dick_turpin | murb: Thats an interesting one, you making that up? I rarely make calls from mine do send the odd text though. Never had my credit stolen had £10 on it once for three months |
| 14:44.52 | murb | dick_turpin: no i'm not i lost my o2 number and credit. |
| 14:45.07 | murb | since i left the uk i only used it whilst travelling |
| 14:45.16 | murb | so of course i found this out when i actually needed it :( |
| 14:45.28 | murb | as in meeting someone at stansted and they had my uk no. |
| 14:45.41 | murb | dick_turpin: for large values of 5 minutes. |
| 14:45.43 | dick_turpin | murb: lol in't that always the way with everything? |
| 14:45.46 | murb | i think it is actually 3 months. |
| 14:51.55 | *** join/#gllug flips_and_rails (n=stu@cv-kraken.cv.ic.ac.uk) |
| 14:52.39 | morsing | dick_turpin! |
| 14:53.16 | morsing | flips_and_rails! |
| 14:54.21 | dick_turpin | morsing: Hiya |
| 14:56.52 | jcookeman | A/S/L |
| 15:00.06 | goibhniu | dick_turpin! |
| 15:00.28 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: At last you bugger bo |
| 15:01.02 | goibhniu | dick_turpin: how's it? |
| 15:01.32 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: I've installed compiz-fusion, not sure I'm happy |
| 15:01.39 | goibhniu | oh? |
| 15:01.48 | goibhniu | don't you like expo? |
| 15:02.01 | goibhniu | or writing in fire? |
| 15:02.30 | goibhniu | I don't konw if I can resize windows with a shortcut yet ... I miss that |
| 15:03.59 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: I don't think my animations are correct, fire is too fast, explode is waaaaay too fast but I do like the fish tank oh and no caps |
| 15:04.47 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: I also hated all the Gnome crap that had to be installed |
| 15:04.47 | goibhniu | reflection is new too innit? |
| 15:05.13 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Now I think reflections is working, sort of |
| 15:05.32 | goibhniu | I only use zoom and fade animations .. didn't notice anything |
| 15:06.08 | goibhniu | I haven't tried the fish tank or the screen saver ... looks nice tho |
| 15:06.41 | goibhniu | do you need a start-up script to kick it off? |
| 15:07.33 | goibhniu | I miss beryl-manager .. that was nice |
| 15:07.43 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: The gears are boring IMO, splash screen not working. set up /home/peter/.kde/autostart icon/texty thingy |
| 15:08.47 | goibhniu | hmm |
| 15:08.49 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Found out how to control it by accident. use "Advanced Search" you then get a walk through selector |
| 15:09.09 | goibhniu | control the gears? |
| 15:09.21 | goibhniu | I haven't tried them either |
| 15:09.29 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Possibly in respect of speed ect |
| 15:10.06 | goibhniu | I'd like a 3d globe in the centre with a live cloud map ... that's be nice |
| 15:10.17 | goibhniu | or maybe magic fire |
| 15:10.58 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Water/Rain is working |
| 15:11.10 | goibhniu | I never really like that |
| 15:11.31 | goibhniu | I just mapped a splash to some odd keys that I press by accident from time to time |
| 15:11.57 | goibhniu | but expo rocks ..no? |
| 15:12.23 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: I liked fire for minimise and explode for close all I get is a bar of flame running down I used to get the window frame burning down |
| 15:12.52 | goibhniu | that sounds broken! |
| 15:13.43 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: expo? will have to look at that (Shh whisper what it is don't want to look acknowledgeable here) |
| 15:15.31 | goibhniu | hmm ... I just had a look at burn ... indeed it's not as smooth as before |
| 15:15.40 | goibhniu | super+e |
| 15:15.43 | goibhniu | for expo |
| 15:16.06 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: So its not just me then? |
| 15:16.11 | goibhniu | it zooms you out and gives you an overview of your workspaces |
| 15:16.29 | goibhniu | and you can drag windows about on them and of course everything is live |
| 15:16.38 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Ah on mine its ctrl tab |
| 15:16.55 | goibhniu | ah ok |
| 15:17.24 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: I think, hit the combination by accident. No super key on my Toshiba |
| 15:17.48 | goibhniu | I'm just delighted that it gets updated regularly and new things are happening |
| 15:17.56 | goibhniu | I was missing that excitement from beryl |
| 15:18.23 | goibhniu | but yeah .. the burn is dissappointing |
| 15:18.29 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Yeah and I seemed to be behind you and I couldn't stand that :-P |
| 15:19.18 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Are you using GIT for updating, or waiting for roll outs? |
| 15:20.36 | goibhniu | in gentoo land they're called "live ebuilds" so it drags them in from git alright |
| 15:21.16 | goibhniu | I assume the arch one is updated regularly |
| 15:21.28 | goibhniu | the guy who maintains the gentoo overlay has recently defected |
| 15:22.16 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Hm, I think the guys repo I added might just be a "This'll get you going" so I may have to learn the voodoo of GIT or hang around for it to go into the Arch 'stable' |
| 15:23.20 | goibhniu | the more I hear about git the more I want to learn tho |
| 15:23.38 | goibhniu | you can probably just go into the right directory and run git pull |
| 15:23.48 | antiphase | Just use CVS |
| 15:23.55 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: That video you sent me seemed pretty educational |
| 15:24.42 | dick_turpin | antiphase: So similar to svn then? |
| 15:24.49 | goibhniu | brb |
| 15:25.00 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Typical |
| 15:25.00 | antiphase | SVN is crappy |
| 15:25.07 | antiphase | It seems to bust quite regularly |
| 15:25.50 | dick_turpin | antiphase: Dunno could never seem to get the hang of it, was just asking really |
| 16:00.28 | *** part/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 16:17.20 | veera | dick_turphin |
| 16:17.25 | veera | can u expalin this for me |
| 16:17.42 | veera | Let v v?? vn be the sorted |
| 16:17.42 | veera | values of a numeric attribute A Since any value between vi and vi will divide |
| 16:17.42 | veera | the set into the same two subsets we need to examine only n?? possible splits |
| 16:17.42 | veera | Typically the midpoint of each interval vi ?? vi is chosen as the split point |
| 16:18.18 | veera | let v1 to vn be sorted in |
| 16:18.26 | wethrin | dick_turpin has gone |
| 16:18.32 | veera | can one here |
| 16:19.04 | wethrin | What're the '??' symbols? |
| 16:19.21 | veera | v?? is v1,v2 |
| 16:19.25 | wethrin | And maybe you need to give some more context. It sounds like a binary search algorithm |
| 16:19.56 | veera | ok |
| 16:20.07 | veera | say there is a numeric attribute |
| 16:20.20 | veera | it values are v1,v2,.........vn |
| 16:20.47 | veera | Since any value between vi and vi will divide |
| 16:20.47 | veera | the set into the same two subsets we need to examine only n?? possible splits |
| 16:20.47 | veera | Typically the midpoint of each interval vi ?? vi is chosen as the split point |
| 16:20.47 | veera | The cost of evaluating splits for a numeric attribute is dominated by the cost of |
| 16:20.47 | veera | sorting the values Therefore an important scalability issue is the reduction of |
| 16:20.47 | veera | sorting costs for numeric attributes |
| 16:21.08 | jcookeman | veera: where is this coming from? |
| 16:21.13 | veera | pdf |
| 16:21.18 | jcookeman | where? |
| 16:21.30 | veera | it is one of the papers from ieee |
| 16:21.44 | veera | can i send the pdf to room? |
| 16:21.54 | wethrin | No |
| 16:21.56 | jcookeman | is it freely available |
| 16:21.59 | wethrin | IRC doesn't work that way |
| 16:22.00 | jcookeman | on ieee site |
| 16:22.08 | veera | yep |
| 16:22.43 | jcookeman | so send a link |
| 16:23.01 | murb | veera: put the pdf on the web. |
| 16:23.11 | veera | http://download.yousendit.com/45C8DCD376AFB8BE |
| 16:23.16 | veera | here it is |
| 16:25.16 | veera | see spilts for numeric attributes |
| 16:25.58 | jcookeman | what do you want to know? |
| 16:26.54 | veera | what he mean by we only need n-1 spilts |
| 16:27.18 | boudiccas | veera; in this context, what is a 'apilt'? |
| 16:27.22 | boudiccas | *spilt |
| 16:27.44 | veera | spilting |
| 16:27.45 | antiphase | Sounds like quick sort |
| 16:27.56 | veera | it is a decison tree |
| 16:28.01 | boudiccas | do you mean 'split'? |
| 16:28.02 | veera | we will spilt the root node |
| 16:28.13 | veera | depending upon the test condition |
| 16:28.39 | veera | say gllug is a first est. in 2001 is the test condition |
| 16:28.47 | veera | we have 2 spilts |
| 16:28.51 | veera | yes or no |
| 16:29.02 | antiphase | You might be better of in #maths |
| 16:29.09 | antiphase | Rather than getting shirty with us ;) |
| 16:29.14 | wethrin | #compsci, surely :) |
| 16:29.25 | antiphase | YES OR NO |
| 16:29.29 | veera | no memebers there |
| 16:29.45 | jcookeman | n-1 possible splits is in the worst case |
| 16:29.59 | wethrin | That'd be a linear search, then |
| 16:30.01 | boudiccas | i don't think that this is the right place to discuss 'spilts' which i'm stiull puzzled about |
| 16:30.07 | boudiccas | *still |
| 16:30.17 | wethrin | boudiccas: It's not an unreasonable place |
| 16:30.23 | veera | say this boudi |
| 16:30.27 | veera | u wanna play tennis |
| 16:30.36 | boudiccas | no i don't |
| 16:30.40 | veera | but if it is windy u want to go movie |
| 16:30.41 | wethrin | Just I think that this place has more sysadmins than theoretical CS people |
| 16:30.45 | boudiccas | i play table tennis |
| 16:31.02 | veera | come on for example sake |
| 16:31.05 | antiphase | Pure maths sucks the wang. |
| 16:31.11 | wethrin | Physics FTW |
| 16:31.12 | boudiccas | i've got this mental picture of venn diagrams for some reason |
| 16:31.13 | antiphase | Application is where it's at |
| 16:31.26 | veera | u got it |
| 16:31.29 | veera | boudi |
| 16:31.41 | antiphase | t(beer) - 29 minutes |
| 16:31.48 | jcookeman | I dont understand why he uses 'n' there |
| 16:32.08 | boudiccas | anyway, i'm busy cooking tea |
| 16:32.37 | veera | n is possible values |
| 16:32.52 | veera | that a root node takes in for testing |
| 16:33.07 | veera | climate = sunny, rainy, cloudy |
| 16:33.22 | veera | climate is the attribute and test values are 3 |
| 16:33.45 | veera | where is the compscience channel |
| 16:33.46 | cpufreak | I'm hungry |
| 16:33.47 | veera | any way |
| 16:34.02 | cpufreak | mmm pie |
| 16:34.06 | cpufreak | when is the beer festival btw? |
| 16:34.13 | wethrin | 7th-11th August |
| 16:34.15 | boudiccas | which beer fest? |
| 16:34.17 | wethrin | I'm there on the 9th |
| 16:34.17 | cpufreak | really? |
| 16:34.21 | cpufreak | arse biscuits |
| 16:34.25 | wethrin | Yeah. It's a week later than usual |
| 16:34.27 | boudiccas | wethrin; where is it please? |
| 16:34.29 | wethrin | boudiccas: GBBF |
| 16:34.31 | wethrin | Earl's Court |
| 16:34.34 | cpufreak | I'm in germany getting my 'A' License next week |
| 16:34.40 | wethrin | There's normally a Lonix meeting on the Thursday |
| 16:35.06 | cpufreak | actually I may be able to swing this. |
| 16:35.22 | cpufreak | the only days I'd be able to go would be 10th or 11th |
| 16:35.26 | cpufreak | antiphase: what day are you going? |
| 16:35.34 | antiphase | Tuesday |
| 16:35.37 | wethrin | if you're not a CAMRA member, it might be worth booking in advance to avoid queues |
| 16:35.54 | cpufreak | lame. |
| 16:35.56 | cpufreak | thats no good. |
| 16:36.04 | cpufreak | I don't think it mkaes sense. |
| 16:36.09 | antiphase | I went on the last day last year and there was no beer left |
| 16:36.15 | cpufreak | oh right |
| 16:36.27 | cpufreak | I went on the tuesday last day |
| 16:38.10 | wethrin | last year? |
| 16:38.30 | *** join/#gllug polyunix (n=egor@87.127.26.43) |
| 16:40.19 | veera | i got a spark |
| 16:40.24 | veera | please correct me |
| 16:40.44 | veera | he sais we need to examine only n-1 spilts |
| 16:40.57 | veera | meaning if thera n spilts |
| 16:42.01 | veera | the last one will be a leaf node |
| 16:42.06 | jcookeman | no |
| 16:42.16 | veera | what happens if there are 2 leaf nodes |
| 16:42.17 | veera | ? |
| 16:42.42 | antiphase | Ceiling cat will get annoyed |
| 16:42.51 | veera | or leaving the root node |
| 16:42.53 | veera | ? |
| 16:43.13 | jcookeman | ROFL |
| 16:43.34 | jcookeman | you mean one root node and two leaf nodes? |
| 16:43.54 | veera | say u start with one root node |
| 16:44.08 | veera | then after the test u will have 2 nodes |
| 16:44.18 | veera | one will be a leaf node |
| 16:44.36 | veera | and u continue to test the other node |
| 16:45.07 | jcookeman | I think I'd have to read that paper and see what it's about |
| 16:45.07 | veera | jcookeman let me Pm u |
| 16:45.19 | veera | did u get that paper |
| 16:56.28 | veera | hello |
| 16:56.31 | veera | u there |
| 16:59.30 | veera | lol |
| 16:59.40 | veera | where is jcookeman gone |
| 17:11.28 | *** join/#gllug ceronman (n=ceronman@190.5.196.172) |
| 17:20.55 | *** join/#gllug clive-h (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 17:45.48 | morsing | clive-h! |
| 17:45.52 | morsing | ceronman! |
| 18:00.39 | kjalil | morsing! |
| 18:12.00 | *** part/#gllug ceronman (n=ceronman@190.5.196.172) |
| 18:21.49 | boudiccas | monday night means the Goon Show :) |
| 18:36.23 | polyunix | http://205.188.215.231:8000 |
| 18:51.15 | morsing | kjalil! |
| 18:54.45 | *** join/#gllug jgay (n=jgay@terminus-est.gnu.org) |
| 18:58.42 | jgay | Hi, I was just wondering if anybody was going to the Defective by Design protest in August? |
| 18:58.44 | jgay | http://www.pantherhouse.com/newshelton/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/bpadvert.jpg |
| 18:58.48 | jgay | oops, wrong link |
| 18:59.05 | jgay | http://www.defectivebydesign.org/blog/BBCcorrupted |
| 18:59.50 | jgay | if so, please email me at jgay@fsf.org -- kthxbai |
| 18:59.52 | jgay | :-P |
| 19:00.40 | *** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild) |
| 19:00.45 | *** join/#gllug rhowe (i=rhowe@xiao.siksai.co.uk) |
| 19:07.04 | murb | dsl or otherwise? |
| 19:07.22 | rhowe | http://www.voy.com/41165/4027.html |
| 19:07.42 | rhowe | murb: DSL, yeah. Enta are doing IPv6, although whether it's using BT's tunnel or properly native, I dunno yet |
| 19:08.21 | murb | rhowe: that is just wrong! lets put ppp and a tcp/ip stack in firefox.. |
| 19:08.35 | rhowe | murb: hehe yeah, I can't work out if it's a troll or not :) |
| 19:08.39 | murb | rhowe: oh do you know any reasonable enta resellers? |
| 19:09.00 | murb | i hav a client who wants a ppp bonded connection, but doesn't want to pay for the managed solution direct? |
| 19:10.15 | rhowe | murb: Dunno - I'm using UKFSN |
| 19:10.41 | murb | you escaped from nildram in the end? |
| 19:13.45 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@dsl82-163-112-79.as15444.net) |
| 19:26.32 | *** part/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@dsl82-163-112-79.as15444.net) |
| 19:28.10 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@dsl82-163-112-79.as15444.net) |
| 19:29.59 | rhowe | murb: Yeah |
| 19:42.22 | goibhniu | polyunix: nice music :) |
| 19:43.12 | boudiccas | dick_turpin; have you looked at your hostmask? its rude! :)))) |
| 19:43.41 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: gimme a clue |
| 19:44.10 | boudiccas | dick_turpin; dick_tur@dsl82-163-112-79.as15444.net ........ the bit before the numbers |
| 19:44.21 | boudiccas | :)))) |
| 19:44.47 | boudiccas | i find it amusing anyway :) |
| 19:45.15 | boudiccas | probably says more about my sense of humour, or lack of it |
| 19:45.17 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: /me shrugs "Dunno how to fix it, in fact fed up of fixing things" |
| 19:45.51 | boudiccas | you having a bad day? |
| 19:47.11 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: Burnt out more like, decided to take a twenty years step back today and do some cold calling, very sole destroying |
| 19:47.44 | boudiccas | yes, i've done that before. it very quickly gets you down i found |
| 19:48.12 | clive-h | i don't think i could sell things |
| 19:48.49 | dick_turpin | clive-h: I plan to do it all week, I must be a glutton for punishment |
| 19:48.54 | boudiccas | I tried to sell lace making pillows and bobbins. totally without success |
| 19:49.11 | goibhniu | boudiccas: on ebay? |
| 19:49.16 | clive-h | I've worked in IT since 1984 |
| 19:49.32 | boudiccas | goibhniu; no, i was trying to place them into shops in touristy Norwich |
| 19:49.35 | clive-h | i was an accountant before that |
| 19:50.03 | goibhniu | my folks tried all those kinds of things before the internet ... a knitting machine ... home made stained glass jewellery ... hobby horses |
| 19:50.25 | goibhniu | I think they'd have had a chance now ... but back then it was a lot of work selling it |
| 19:50.51 | boudiccas | Well, I still make bobbin lace occasionally, along with my cross stitch and knitting |
| 19:53.04 | goibhniu | my folks ... or my mother really ... was only in it for the money |
| 19:53.34 | goibhniu | that only ever works if you've got corporate backing |
| 19:53.41 | boudiccas | i just do it becauise i like doing it,a nd the beautiful articles that can be made |
| 19:54.04 | clive-h | good reason |
| 19:54.29 | boudiccas | plus i find it very relaxing |
| 19:54.36 | goibhniu | you could probably sell it for a nice price if you slapped a few fair trade/organic/no sweatshops stickers on it though |
| 19:55.22 | goibhniu | I saw some hand knitted jumpers the other day ... they all looked the exact same but apparently were knitted by several grannies ... over £100 a pop |
| 19:55.30 | goibhniu | there's a lot of work in them though |
| 19:56.18 | boudiccas | a square bobbin lace mat 4*4 takes ten hours to make. the traditional way of pricing it is to cover it completely in 5p pieces,a nd that is its price! not a fair return for the amount of hours and skill that have gone into it |
| 19:56.50 | boudiccas | but people wouldn't pay about £20 for something that small |
| 19:57.59 | boudiccas | ah well, back to Harry Potter. should finish it tonight :) |
| 19:59.25 | dick_turpin | sorry having 14 conversations and I can only cope with one (Old fart) |
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| 20:02.55 | *** part/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@dsl82-163-112-79.as15444.net) |
| 20:24.12 | morsing | crouse! |
| 20:25.42 | crouse | hello :) |
| 20:37.19 | boudiccas | ah finished! |
| 20:38.19 | hali | boudiccas: did it suck as much as i think it did? |
| 20:38.32 | boudiccas | it was enjoyable |
| 20:38.48 | boudiccas | and it had a surprising ending |
| 20:39.12 | hali | so what happend? |
| 20:39.14 | hali | :) |
| 20:39.35 | boudiccas | well fred got killed, and george had his ear blown off |
| 20:39.44 | hali | ok, good to know |
| 20:40.00 | boudiccas | and there were seven harry potters and you really ought to read it to find out what happens |
| 20:40.14 | boudiccas | . |
| 20:42.13 | hali | i will take that under consideration |
| 20:42.36 | hali | but the fact that i haven't read any of the other books may be a problem, should read those first |
| 20:43.07 | clive-h | hmmm |
| 20:43.39 | clive-h | i've not read any of the harry potter novels |
| 20:44.24 | boudiccas | there nice books to read as an adult when you've got a cold or the flu, they're =comfort= books and stories |
| 20:45.22 | clive-h | perhaps i should see if the library has emm |
| 20:45.26 | clive-h | -m |
| 20:45.30 | morsing | gw280 is dead? |
| 20:46.00 | murb | morsing: no and he can't even shoot himself as he has left different parts of his gun in different parts of the country. |
| 20:46.24 | murb | although he does keep a log of who is has or is going to shoot, http://vm.gwright.org.uk/log |
| 20:46.39 | murb | goibhniu: |
| 20:46.41 | murb | what? |
| 20:46.44 | murb | bloody tab. |
| 21:17.19 | clive-h | lo z00dax |
| 21:17.27 | z00dax | hey clive-h howse it going ? |
| 21:17.28 | rhowe | clive-h: Oi, alpha! |
| 21:17.52 | clive-h | rhowe: I must collect that |
| 21:18.04 | z00dax | rhowe: hey |
| 21:18.07 | rhowe | clive-h: It would help you get it, yes |
| 21:18.11 | rhowe | hey KB |
| 21:22.13 | *** part/#gllug crouse (n=crouse@pdpc/supporter/active/crouse) |
| 21:22.38 | jgay | Well, I'll say it once more before I get marked as spam. If anybody wants to help do organizing for the defective by design protest against the BBC email me at jgay@fsf.org |
| 21:23.11 | clive-h | that must be about iplayer |
| 21:23.18 | z00dax | what is this about then - whats defective by design ? |
| 21:31.25 | *** join/#gllug mylesbraithwaite (n=mylesbra@206-248-157-245.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 21:39.32 | antiphase | I'm defective, but not by design |
| 21:41.14 | jgay | z00dax, http://www.defectivebydesign.org/blog/BBCcorrupted |
| 21:42.02 | antiphase | Stupid hippies |
| 21:43.01 | jgay | antiphase, hehe, us? |
| 21:43.12 | jgay | antiphase, the FSF, hippies? |
| 21:44.33 | antiphase | I would support the BBC in not being defective in the way you suggest, I also appreciate the commercial pressure they experience. Your one-sided arguments simply indicate how biased you probably are ;) |
| 21:47.27 | jgay | antiphase, our argument is that the BBC trust should think of the public first. It takes _more_ work to propriatize and drm the information than it does to use open standards and free software that play on _ALL_ versions of all operating systems. |
| 21:47.53 | antiphase | If you say so |
| 21:48.02 | z00dax | humm |
| 21:48.19 | antiphase | I'd counter that you are lacking in information |
| 21:48.50 | jgay | antiphase, yes, I say so. Using ice cast and VLC media player is damn simple. Flying around the world and giving talks for microsoft and having them develop the iPlayer for a few versions of Windows and have eveyrthing laden with DRM is a lot of work and a lot of public spending. |
| 21:49.18 | antiphase | It plainly takes less work to use a proprietary system that is a turnkey solution, if you ignore the 0.5% of people who can only use an open-format decoder |
| 21:49.32 | jgay | antiphase, the free software solution is turnkey, too |
| 21:49.36 | jgay | and is better supported |
| 21:49.38 | jgay | far better supported |
| 21:49.43 | antiphase | That is the business argument, and you'll have to do really really well to make businesses think otherwise |
| 21:49.46 | jgay | your argument isn't based on sound facts, it's based on a gut feeling |
| 21:49.57 | antiphase | Prove it ;) |
| 21:50.11 | clive-h | oh dear , oh dear |
| 21:50.40 | antiphase | Open sourcerers have this argument repeatedly from time-totime, and the outcome is always the same |
| 21:50.58 | antiphase | If jgay read mailing lists instead of cooking nut roasts, he would realise that |
| 21:52.05 | jgay | antiphase, you are probably right, we should throw in the towel and just support drm and proprietary software. I'll recommend that from RMS tomorrow ;-) |
| 21:52.25 | antiphase | Silly hippies that see only black and white |
| 21:53.11 | antiphase | If you opened your eyes to business considerations and the compromises that engenders, people would give you far more respect |
| 21:53.20 | antiphase | Rome wasn't built in a day |
| 21:53.24 | jgay | antiphase, "people" or you? |
| 21:53.32 | antiphase | Both. |
| 21:54.02 | z00dax | i think the whole iplayer on drm/windoze thing might have something to do with other issues as well |
| 21:54.34 | z00dax | the one thing that was a bit odd, to me initially anyway, was how they prevent people from outside the UK from accessing content |
| 21:54.47 | jgay | z00dax, it seems to break tradition of the BBC |
| 21:54.57 | z00dax | jgay: that is true |
| 21:55.16 | jgay | my evening volunteer work is for the One Laptop per Child project . . . it's sad to think that we'll dstirbute 50 million laptops that can't view the BBC this fall |
| 21:55.37 | clive-h | OLPC is a good project |
| 21:55.38 | z00dax | dont get me started on that bag of bullshit that is the olpc project |
| 21:55.44 | z00dax | clive-h: not so much :) |
| 21:55.47 | jgay | but, i anyhow, i digress, i should go back to my stupid hippy things to make antiphase more of a bigot :-) |
| 21:55.59 | jgay | z00dax, it's really not |
| 21:56.11 | jgay | z00dax, it's quite amazing waht a dozen people can do hacking on a cool machine |
| 21:56.17 | clive-h | It's innovative |
| 21:56.19 | z00dax | actually, to be more precise the people pushing it at the marketing(?) level are the ones I have problems with |
| 21:56.27 | z00dax | the project, in its aims and goals seems fine |
| 21:56.28 | jgay | z00dax, nicholas? |
| 21:56.34 | antiphase | Realplayer is free to use; if you object to the source not being available that's your problem |
| 21:56.49 | antiphase | Some people are more interested in the content |
| 21:56.52 | jgay | z00dax, there are only a dozen people in the whole organization and just a couple spokesmen --- maybe you mean other people who are clinging to it |
| 21:57.01 | z00dax | jgay: dont know specific names, but i know that someone walked up and spoke with the Govt in Nigeria and offered kickbacks to the people for placing orders |
| 21:57.18 | z00dax | also, rumour has it that money was offered in return for the orders in Pakistan and something similar in Brazil |
| 21:57.30 | z00dax | personally, I'd like to see some real competition to the OLPC project |
| 21:57.39 | jgay | z00dax, yeah, i imagine there are stupid people everywhere . . . but, I doubt it is people at OLPC directly doing stupid things like that |
| 21:57.48 | clive-h | that would be good |
| 21:57.50 | jgay | z00dax, well ,it's an education project, not a laptop project. |
| 21:57.59 | z00dax | antiphase: i didnt know that the iplayer stuff worked with realplayer, i think its ms-mediaplayer only |
| 21:58.28 | z00dax | jgay: why then is it so commercial in its content :) |
| 21:58.40 | antiphase | I haven't seen any iplayer stuff, whatever it is |
| 21:58.41 | z00dax | for someone who has nothing to do with it - it seems nothing more than a business venture |
| 21:58.46 | jgay | anyhow, i'm confused about a LUG that supports proprietary software over free software, so I should head out :-) |
| 21:59.14 | clive-h | it's a LUG |
| 21:59.15 | z00dax | jgay: take it easy, I'll checkout that url later |
| 21:59.31 | jgay | well, not "so", but, I need to head out. G'night everyone. Happy, ahm, using and supporting proprietary software and restricting user freedom! |
| 21:59.36 | jgay | :-) |
| 21:59.48 | jgay | Or happy hacking. |
| 21:59.50 | jgay | later |
| 21:59.50 | clive-h | there's proprietary linux code |
| 22:00.05 | clive-h | some of us run such |
| 22:00.09 | jgay | that's the spirit! :-) |
| 22:00.40 | clive-h | get real |
| 22:00.49 | z00dax | the only bit of prop stuff I seem to have anywhere is the nvidia driver, i think |
| 22:01.10 | z00dax | well, that and Enemy territory |
| 22:01.35 | clive-h | i run oracle and all sorts of stuff |
| 22:02.15 | z00dax | ah right, if you include work stuff then yes, the curve goes up a bit - with things like etl tools and large db's etc |
| 22:03.00 | hali | i did |
| 22:03.02 | hali | it's fun |
| 22:03.26 | clive-h | The point is perhaps that linux is a general purpose OS |
| 22:04.02 | z00dax | thats GNU/Linux |
| 22:04.04 | z00dax | :) |
| 22:04.14 | clive-h | Err |
| 22:04.28 | clive-h | I'm from t'other side |
| 22:04.51 | clive-h | I'd be happy with Linux/GNU |
| 22:05.23 | z00dax | rms will not be happy |
| 22:05.35 | clive-h | so? |
| 22:05.59 | z00dax | rms is god! |
| 22:06.00 | antiphase | He's an unshaven hippy |
| 22:08.28 | clive-h | and per tem i'll stick with Fedora 7 |
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