IRC log for #gllug on 20071227

01:15.12*** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild)
02:14.42*** join/#gllug Discordian (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk)
02:36.35*** join/#gllug xteddy (n=bear@gemini.starshine.org)
02:45.35*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=rcohen@210.5.166.114)
09:54.39*** join/#gllug secretlondon (i=secretlo@wikipedia/secretlondon)
09:54.51secretlondonmorning
09:55.07secretlondonvodafone don't seem to want to give me 3g or hsdpa this morning
10:48.44antiphaseI claim today's evilness prize for using AOL broadband via Windows ICS
11:01.51*** join/#gllug bilarh (n=henrik@bilar.co.uk)
11:22.31secretlondonnasty
11:22.36secretlondonvidta too?
11:22.38secretlondonvista
11:31.45antiphaseXP fortunately, so it's almost functional
11:33.55Provitoantiphase, to top it off are you using the free laptop as well?
11:35.18*** join/#gllug zmey_g (n=egor@87.127.26.43)
11:35.20antiphaseI'm using a laptop, also with Windows, and I didn't strictly pay for it so I suppose it was free
11:39.33zmey_gEverybody please laugh. I couldn't  install win xp on my laptop, so i left just linux on it.
11:44.42secretlondon"just linux"
11:49.22zmey_git appeared windoze xp cant handle new sata drivers, so there will be no double boot any more. just linux.
12:15.03bilarhibot seen hali
12:15.05ibothali is currently on #gllug, last said: 'using dwango'.
12:15.24bilarhdamn you, ibot! i need timestamps :)
12:24.44wethrinheh
12:40.20boudiccasibot seen BlacKKitty
12:40.21ibotboudiccas: i haven't seen 'blackkitty'
12:40.33boudiccasibost seen blackitty
12:40.54boudiccasibot seen blackitty
12:40.55ibotboudiccas: i haven't seen 'blackitty'
12:49.35wethrinBah. My Mac IIcx doesn't turn on
12:55.59*** join/#gllug gw280 (n=george@vm.gwright.org.uk)
12:56.01gw280blargh
12:56.12wethrinhi gw280
12:56.16gw280hi
12:56.24wethrinHow's life?
12:56.27gw280fantastic
12:56.34wethrinHurrah!
12:56.36gw280just had a very nice job offer
12:56.58wethrinNice. Where, doing what?
12:57.03wethrinAre you already a finalist?\
12:57.05gw280NX development
12:57.10gw280no, I'm second year
12:57.21gw280contract work... 30 GBP per hour
12:57.28wethrinAhh....that's quite decent
12:57.32gw280I know :D
12:57.45gw280working to make my NX client more cross platform
12:57.57wethrinSo it'll run on RedHat *and* Debian? :)
12:58.03gw280well
12:58.05gw280OS X, Windows and Linux
12:58.12gw280all open source
12:58.53wethringood good
12:59.28gw280so it looks like I won't be doing any WebKit devel for a while
12:59.41wethrinWebKit?
12:59.46gw280yeah, that's my other contract
13:00.00gw280but they pay bollocks in comparison
13:00.04wethrinAhh
13:00.07wethrinJust a tenner?
13:00.11gw280yeah
13:00.13gw2809.50
13:00.32wethrinEh. I'd go for the £30 job :)
13:00.38gw280indeed
13:00.56gw280best is that they know I'm not going to commit much during term time
13:01.01gw280so I don't have to worry about deadlines etc
13:01.10wethrinYay!
13:01.15gw280they seemed OK with my estimate that I'd be able to commit around 4-5 hours a week
13:01.25wethrinSounds about reasonable - an hour a day
13:01.30gw280something like that
13:01.43gw280they're based in pinner
13:01.53wethrinS'not too far out, then
13:01.58gw280I'll let slide the fact that they served me instant coffee
13:02.02wethrinOw
13:02.03gw280wethrin: I live in Cambridge :P
13:02.10wethrinPermanently now? :)
13:02.14gw280just about
13:02.21gw280this week is the first time I've been home since last christmas
13:02.22gw280or something
13:02.30wethrinAh. You're living out, then?
13:02.33gw280all my shit's still in cambridge
13:02.37gw280no, living in college
13:02.56gw280I've just managed to convince the college to let me have the room on a semi-permanent basis
13:02.57wethrinOh. So your college allows you to stay in over holidays? That's nice of them
13:03.02gw280yeah
13:03.05gw280costs me a tenner a day
13:03.15wethrinNot unreasonable
13:03.25gw280it used to be 8.50 :(
13:03.30gw280capitalists
13:03.43wethrinThey don't sound as money-grabbing as Durham
13:03.51gw280durham stinks though
13:03.53wethrinHateful administration at the university
13:03.56gw280it's a fake university
13:03.57wethrinNah, only Old Shite Hall
13:04.01wethrinYoung upstarts!
13:04.11gw280durham is younger than cambridge
13:04.13gw280cambridge > *
13:04.18wethrinRubbish!
13:04.24wethrinOxford > Tabland
13:04.30gw280oxford < durham
13:04.44wethrinPff
13:05.14gw280anyway, got another meeting with them tomorrow to discuss it with their coders
13:05.18gw280as I only spoke to their CEO today
13:05.27wethrinWill their coders want you on-board?
13:05.28gw280who can't code, apparently
13:05.32gw280apparently they do
13:05.38gw280he had a string of questions from them
13:05.43gw280I think there are two of them
13:05.54gw280it's not as if I'm working in their office anyway
13:06.00wethrinTrue
13:06.06wethrinSo you spare them that :)
13:06.12wethrinYou Fosdemming this year
13:06.13wethrin?
13:06.16gw280although they did have some crack headed ideas about some authentication stuff
13:06.36wethrinDid it involve DNA scanners?
13:06.44gw280no
13:06.57gw280it involved changing the authentication structure of NX to allow config-less deployment of clients
13:07.06gw280which is clearly some sort of abject failure, as you're breaking other NX clients
13:07.26wethrinThat's a bit broken, then
13:07.29gw280breaking standards isn't a hobby of mine
13:07.30gw280:)
13:07.50gw280well, I think the CEO may have relayed it incorrectly
13:08.01gw280he's not a coder, and he was going by memory of what the coders were saying
13:08.05wethrinOpen-source people like breaking standards
13:08.17gw280nah, open source people like MAKING standards
13:08.25gw280they don't break them, they just define new ones
13:09.18wethrinHmmmmm
13:09.23gw280right, lunch
13:09.23gw280bye
13:12.04wethrinbye
13:49.56secretlondonmy graphics card is in the royal mail system in Manchester
13:50.34*** join/#gllug Ch0Hag (n=mking@knight.monnsta.net)
13:51.06Ch0HagApparently my computer, on the first floor, is controlled by the switch marked ground floor on the fusebox.
13:51.25Ch0HagAlthough the UPS, next to me, which powers the server etc. isn't.
13:51.25secretlondonI'm not sure where else something bought from a shop in manchester on the 24th would be
13:51.38secretlondonweird
13:51.54secretlondonmaybe you moved
13:53.26Ch0HagSomeone could have told me.
13:54.10*** join/#gllug Discordian (n=discordi@chills.demon.co.uk)
13:59.07secretlondonBenazir Bhutto has apparently been killed by a suicide bomber
13:59.14secretlondonaccording to live journal
13:59.29secretlondonwhich isn't necessarily the best source of info but is referencing the bbc
13:59.43DiscordianYeah seen that
13:59.52DiscordianThat's a shame
14:00.01secretlondonbah better go out - supposed to be somewhere at half past
14:00.16Discordianheh have fun
14:10.38Ch0HagHmm worth getting a cable tester?
14:29.34*** join/#gllug ranner (n=ranner@81-86-48-173.dsl.pipex.com)
14:32.12*** join/#gllug poeloq (n=poeloq@X6075.x.pppool.de)
14:49.11wethrinCh0Hag: Probably
14:53.00wethrinhis? Bah. Silly keyboard
14:58.55Ch0HagI probably should, but there are none in stock and it costs a tenner which, thanks to Christmas, I don't really have.
15:00.00Ch0HagIs it possible to tunnel an ethernet device to another machine?
15:00.30wethrinNo
15:00.46Ch0HagI've bought a new board which will become my server and it has wireless built in, but my router has no wireless, so cat I fool the router into believing the wireless device is local?
15:00.55Ch0HagOr do I have to muck around with iptables?
15:01.08Ch0Hag(Or buy another wireless card)
15:01.40wethrinGet a WAP, so wired and wireless can live on the same network
15:02.08Ch0HagYeah that's plan B.
15:02.19Ch0HagWireless 'card'.
15:03.05Ch0HagAlthough it'll be on a network of its own.
15:04.42halihm, i feel slightly retarded but where the fuck does ubuntu decide what modules to load on boot? i want to change the ethernet module from r8168 to r8169
15:04.46*** join/#gllug ranner81 (n=ranner@81-86-48-173.dsl.pipex.com)
15:05.06Ch0Hag/etc/modules
15:05.08Ch0Hag?
15:05.18*** part/#gllug gw280 (n=george@vm.gwright.org.uk)
15:05.21Ch0HagI think that's done before udev is touched.
15:05.27halinope
15:05.28Ch0HagBut there's always the initrd
15:05.34halii would guess initrd does it
15:05.47Ch0HagTry /etc/initramfs-tools/modules
15:05.59halihm, nope, that file is blank :(
15:06.01Ch0HagThat file exists in sid, and it may even be used.
15:06.07halishitty ubuntu, probably loops through all modules with modprobe
15:06.33Ch0HagYeah but in theory if you list modules in there and recreate the rd then they'll be loaded first, so r8168 won't need to be.
15:06.50Ch0HagAnd Danish butter cookies, even cheap ones, are highly addictive.
15:08.28wethrinudev can Fuck Off And Die
15:08.41wethrinDoes /etc/modules.conf not exist any more?
15:08.59Ch0HagNot in sid.
15:09.06wethrinHow shit
15:09.10halifound the darn module
15:09.11antiphaseOne has to ask why you need to force which module to use
15:09.12haliin the ramdisk
15:09.21halihow do i build a new ramdisk?
15:09.26wethrinYet another reason I like Linux less and less
15:09.28halithe clean way that is :)
15:09.43halisolaris wouldn't have this problem! *rant*
15:09.52halinotthat solaris supportsthe ethernet card at all :)
15:09.53wethrinRemember, Linux is trying to be more like Windows!
15:09.57Ch0Hagmkinitramfs or some variation thereof.
15:09.58wethrinSo, err, re-install the OS
15:10.32Ch0HagI blame Gnome.
15:10.38Ch0HagThey made it too user friendly.
15:10.45wethrin"user friendly" hah
15:10.45Ch0HagGnome 2.
15:10.51Ch0HagGnome 1 was nicely obfuscated.
15:10.55wethrinI agree with Linus' rant about it
15:11.02wethrinGnome suffered from horrid over-design syndrome
15:11.03antiphaseupdate-initramfs innit
15:11.21Ch0Hagantiphase: So it is. I missed that one looking through the list of update-*
15:11.29wethrinAll very well and good to use CORBA and all that crap. *IF* you're going to run the various components of the system across multiple disparate computers
15:11.33Ch0Hagwethrin: URL on Linus ranting?
15:11.38halihere we go
15:11.41halirebooting
15:11.45Ch0HagThey're always good and often insightful too.
15:11.58Ch0HagAnd can someone take these damn biscuits away from me??
15:11.59halibetter switch on the tv to see what it's up to
15:12.08wethrinhttp://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8745257437.html
15:12.31wethrinBut using CORBA on a system that's only ever going to be used on the individual PC is stupid design
15:13.09haliah great
15:13.18haliit crashed and fell back on busybox
15:13.35Ch0HagYeah gnome's network support is just funny.
15:13.51wethrinHmm. That's a different rant
15:16.22Ch0HagGood though.
15:16.31Ch0HagThere hasn't been a good UI since Rosc OS.
15:16.33Ch0HagRisc
15:16.50Ch0HagAnd a TTY, of course, they're kinda fun.
15:22.32wethrinI quite like OS X/Aqua
15:23.00wethrinAlthough Classic Mac had the *really* sensible design decision to put the window-close button on the other side of the window to the minimise/maximise buttons
15:23.10wethrinSo you couldn't accidentally click it
15:23.51Ch0HagOSX is actually gay.
15:23.56Ch0HagI don't think it's come out yet though.
15:24.47Ch0HagThe only reason it seems like a good UI is because its competition is the likes of Windows and TWM.
15:28.04wethrinIt also does some sensible things
15:28.10wethrinAnd pretty much works how I'd like it to work
15:28.25wethrinOn Unix systems, my preference is to use windowmaker or Afterstep
15:28.44Ch0Hag'Does sensible things' is hardly to be raved about. That should be standard.
15:32.30wethrinYes. Sadly, it's not in pretty much all the other GUIs I've used
15:49.06*** join/#gllug IAmAI (n=IAmAI@user-5445a7c5.lns2-c13.telh.dsl.pol.co.uk)
15:49.55DiscordianI like gnome and xfce
15:50.58DiscordianI liked CDE too but that's been dead now for years
16:25.47*** join/#gllug Leeds (i=1000@n219077179152.netvigator.com)
16:27.13wethrinLeeds!
16:27.24wethrinHappy not-Christmas!
16:27.25*** part/#gllug savetheWorld (n=Lester@about/linux/staff/savetheWorld)
16:29.05*** join/#gllug savetheWorld (n=Lester@about/linux/staff/savetheWorld)
16:30.35Leedswethrin!
16:30.37Leedsthank you!
16:30.55Leedssame to you, and all :-)
16:30.57wethrinHow's life on the far side of the world?
16:31.01wethrinthanks :)
16:31.39wethrinFoodtime!
16:31.54Leedswork sucks, life is good...
16:34.16*** join/#gllug etorix (n=etorix@unaffiliated/etorix)
16:34.45rhowe"In the next five working days we will send to you an account unlock code which you will need to enter before you will be able to access this account for the first time."
16:34.53rhowewell, isn't that efficient, Hackney
16:35.03rhoweAll I want to know is how much we owe them for council tax
16:39.15Leedshmm... I have a very hot Dell laptop battery here...
16:39.27Leedshot enough that it started flashing warning lights and stopped charging
16:39.35Leedshow scared should I be? ;-)
16:40.13rhoweDepends how combustible its surroundings are :)
16:45.22Leedsthis laptop has a nasty tendency to overheat when running on a soft surface - like say a bed
16:49.32ProvitoDell laptops have had a history of catching alight
16:49.38Provitodell power chargers I mean
16:49.48Provitothey did a recall a couple of years ago
16:50.50*** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild)
16:50.58Leedsthat is, of course, why I mentioned it...
17:01.45Provitowas yours in the batch?
17:04.03Leedsno... the bad batteries are made in China - mine is made in Japan
17:11.51*** join/#gllug catalyst` (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild)
18:41.29*** join/#gllug Armand (n=mcagame@82-44-158-100.cable.ubr02.haye.blueyonder.co.uk)
19:32.59*** join/#gllug Discordian (n=discordi@chills.demon.co.uk)
19:36.26Discordiangood evening
19:43.04ArmandHi! :)
20:05.49secretlondonevening
20:06.40wethrinahoy
20:07.26DiscordianHi
22:05.23*** join/#gllug Discordian (n=discordi@chills.demon.co.uk)
22:06.15Armandrehi. :)
22:07.25Discordianre
22:07.53ArmandHow was your Chrimbo then?
22:08.04Discordianquiet
22:08.10Discordianyours?
22:08.12Armandlikewise..
22:08.15ArmandGot drunk. ^_^
22:08.29DiscordianSame
22:08.34ArmandWhilst playing CS:S. :P
22:09.02DiscordianI'm going to a friends for New Year though
22:09.15Discordianso should be less naff
22:09.22ArmandI'll probably get smashed round my dads house. :)
22:09.29Armandfuck all else to do.
22:09.48DiscordianMy parents are all dead
22:10.04DiscordianI don't have that option
22:10.10Armand:(
22:10.34ArmandI live with my mum, and my dad is 10 minutes drive away.
22:10.52Discordiani have no family at all
22:11.00ArmandDamn.. sorry. :(
22:11.34DiscordianFriends are better anyway
22:11.37ArmandSometimes, I wish I didn't, then I realise.. they could be worse
22:11.58ArmandI suppose that depends on both, the friends and the family.
22:12.09ArmandI've had some proper cunt "friends"
22:12.09DiscordianYou'll miss em when they're gone
22:12.13Armandyeah
22:12.41ArmandI love my family, really.. just a few of them are arseholes.
22:13.59DiscordianI'd give anything for an xmas with my parents
22:14.15Armand;_;
22:14.21DiscordianBut it's not possible
22:14.28Armandyeah.. :(
22:15.14ArmandMy dad, and older brother were here for christmas day.. but my eldest brother was with his ex & his kids.
22:15.30DiscordianNice
22:16.06ArmandIt was pretty boring really.. but my dad and older brother are boring gits. :P
22:53.43*** join/#gllug Armand (n=mcagame@82-44-158-100.cable.ubr02.haye.blueyonder.co.uk)
23:16.19Discordianwb
23:16.28ArmandSodding mIRC. :P
23:16.53ArmandJust got my laptop F8 install sorted, and killed mIRC by mistake. :P
23:17.14antiphaseYou use mIRC out of choice?
23:17.23ArmandYeah, on Windows..
23:17.32ArmandWhat the hell else would I use?! :P
23:17.37antiphasexchat
23:17.40Discordianxchat
23:17.55ArmandO_o
23:18.07antiphaseOr PuTTY to a real machine and use a proper client
23:18.08ArmandDidn't know there was a Windows version. :P
23:18.43ArmandAnd, I don't like remote access stuff, really.. unless it's native Linux.
23:18.49ArmandDon't trust Winduhs. :P
23:21.02ArmandI'm going to have to setup SSH on my shoe-box PC, once I get the damned thing running. >_<
23:23.48ArmandSodding F8 install kept crashing, I think the HD is borked.
23:24.16DiscordianF8 is fairly stable
23:24.39ArmandYeah, I'm pretty sure it's just the HD
23:24.51ArmandIt's been around a bit. :P
23:25.25Discordianlol
23:25.41ArmandOriginally had WinME on it!! >_<
23:25.56Discordianyeuw
23:26.07Armandexactly..
23:26.34Discordianthough me was better than 98
23:26.38halithe crazy 88!
23:26.40ArmandNever!
23:26.46ArmandWin98SE, the best. :D
23:27.45Discordianlinuc ftw
23:28.11secretlondonI never ran ME, I'm not sure I've even seen it
23:28.29ArmandWell, duh.. but for Microsoft, Win98SE was better than ME. :P
23:28.31halisolaris ftw
23:28.41secretlondonBSD 4 eva!
23:28.59Armandhehe
23:29.25DiscordianBig up to the SysV possee#
23:29.34Armand3Operating System: WinXP Professional 5.1 SP2 (Build #2600)
23:29.36Armand:P
23:30.36ArmandAhh.. I really should fire up Konv. :D
23:32.01Armandlol, still logged in on root. :P
23:32.36DiscordianOn XP?
23:33.41ArmandNo..
23:33.53ArmandOn my laptop, was about to IRC, but it's still on root. :P
23:34.36DiscordianI helped Khaled with licensing Mirc
23:34.47Discordiannever used it myself
23:35.20ArmandIt's ok.. not great, but does the job.
23:36.33DiscordianIt runs under wine
23:36.57DiscordianBut it's not for me
23:40.43wethrinMm...Win98 was *far* better than WinME
23:41.43ArmandYeah, M$ have only managed 2/3 decent OS's so far.. Win98SE, WinXP MCE SP2, and Win2000.
23:42.04ArmandI've only used 2000 a bit, but my geek friends swear by it. :)
23:42.56wethrinWin2000 was the best Windows they made
23:43.15wethrinXP might be better underneath, but the UI makes me want to swing hammers
23:43.40ArmandI turn off the XP style shit.
23:43.44ArmandGag inducing.
23:43.57ArmandAnd, RAM hog. :P
23:44.02wethrinCan the Start button be made a sensible size?
23:44.11ArmandErm, yeah..
23:44.24ArmandJust like the Win98/2000 style.
23:44.38ArmandIn fact, mine has "Armand" on it. :D
23:44.44wethrinI'm running 2k on my office PC. The only thing I can't do is run Safari
23:44.53ArmandWhats that?
23:45.03wethrinSafari? Apple's web browser
23:45.15wethrinIt's the least sucky web browser I've come across
23:45.16ArmandOh
23:45.34ArmandI use Firefox myself.. can be a bit of a RAM hog on Linux. >_<
23:45.41wethrinFirefox sucks too
23:45.48wethrinJust a bit less that most other browsers :)
23:46.06wethrinIn fact, all web browsers suck. And they suck more than most software sucks
23:46.12ArmandO_o
23:46.20haliwe need a new firefox
23:46.25ArmandI find them quite useful.. for browsing webpages. :D
23:46.44wethrinWell, that's why you put up with their suckiness :)
23:47.00wethrinIf you're a complete nutter like RMS, you don't browse web pages.
23:47.11wethrinHe has a wget daemon running
23:48.52secretlondonreal men use lynx
23:49.06wethrinlynx sucks
23:49.09wethrinlinks is better
23:49.11secretlondonagreed
23:49.17secretlondonnot used linx
23:49.26secretlondonor whatever
23:49.37wethrinIt supports slightly newer HTML features. Like, say, tables and frames
23:49.46secretlondonI'm sure there's something effiminate about running X, even
23:50.03wethrinStill hasn't *quite* got to image support, which is where Netscape was back in 1994
23:50.03DiscordianThere is?
23:50.16secretlondonreal geeks only use terminals
23:50.42Armandeeeww
23:50.55wethrinFeh. Real geeks use the right tool for the job
23:51.03DiscordianI use gnome
23:51.47DiscordianReal programmers don't eat quiche
23:51.59wethrinReal programmers can write Fortran in any language
23:52.06secretlondonthey only eat pizza
23:52.07Armandgnite all. :)
23:52.57DiscordianI learned programming in FORTRAN II
23:53.07secretlondonBBC basic
23:53.24secretlondonalthough I did fortran at college in the 1990s which wasn't very useful
23:53.42wethrinYou clearly didn't become an astrophysicist
23:53.47secretlondonbut it gave me "introduction to computer programming" on my degree certificate
23:54.10secretlondonas a smelly BA student it was always pretty unlikely
23:54.20DiscordianBBC basic the curse of sophie
23:57.20DiscordianI had BCPL and various FORTHS on my BBC B
23:59.09wethrinI don't have any extra programming languages on my Beeb
23:59.22secretlondonit was prob cartridges

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