IRC log for #gllug on 20080111

01:29.06*** join/#gllug Armand (n=mcagame@82-44-158-100.cable.ubr02.haye.blueyonder.co.uk)
01:29.27Armandblasted wifi.. >_<
02:08.50*** join/#gllug catalyst` (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild)
02:33.42*** join/#gllug Armand|FFS (n=mcagame@82-44-158-100.cable.ubr02.haye.blueyonder.co.uk)
02:50.41*** join/#gllug Armand|FFS (n=mcagame@82-44-158-100.cable.ubr02.haye.blueyonder.co.uk)
02:56.41*** join/#gllug etorix (n=etorix@unaffiliated/etorix)
03:22.12*** join/#gllug Armand (n=mcagame@82-44-158-100.cable.ubr02.haye.blueyonder.co.uk)
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06:24.34DiscordianMorning
08:47.30*** join/#gllug huw-l (n=huw@w1199.insrv.cf.ac.uk)
09:36.08*** join/#gllug ElPenguin (n=ElPengui@foresight/developer/elpenguin)
10:10.27*** join/#gllug chris- (n=chatzill@crag1.plus.com)
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10:16.19bilarhmorning
10:16.47mikejwhello
10:17.11DiscordianMorning
10:38.43*** join/#gllug keith (n=keith@87-194-168-239.bethere.co.uk)
11:55.28*** join/#gllug keith (n=keith@87-194-168-239.bethere.co.uk)
11:58.35Ch0HagThis BT hub thing sucks.
11:58.50Ch0HagI can only set up DNAT rules for a computer that's plugged in.
11:59.02Ch0HagThe computer in question currently being in a van somewhere.
11:59.13wethrinAh, mobile computing
13:17.10*** join/#gllug keith (n=keith@87-194-168-239.bethere.co.uk)
13:22.12*** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild)
13:31.51*** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
13:37.46dick_turpinz00dax: Have you got KDE running on your N810? Looks cool but I don't want to wipe mine
13:39.49antiphaseDirty boy
13:49.15dick_turpinHa that's nothing, I ain't had a bath in ten years :-P
14:05.47boudiccashaven't you used that coal up yet?
14:05.57*** join/#gllug cup (n=teacup@netvoya-adsl.demon.co.uk)
14:06.14boudiccasdick_turpin; haven't you used that coal up yet?
14:06.52boudiccasdick_turpin; couldn't you find a better place to put the coal too rather than the bath
14:12.13dick_turpinboudiccas: I'm stock piling the coal, I'll make a killing when the new coal burning power stations come on-line
14:13.46boudiccasdick_turpin; lol
14:14.13boudiccasmeanwhile the bath is out of commission due to the sacks of coal in it :(
14:18.50dick_turpinboudiccas: So's the bog and I really need to go
14:19.42boudiccasdick_turpin; take a shovel and dig your way in, which is the ususal reversal of digging your way out!
14:19.51boudiccas*usual
14:21.02boudiccasbest keep the bog clear for usage. it'll be more comfortable then using the one at the bottom of the garden, especially as the honeycart only comes to empty it once a fortnight now. that being one of the councils economy cuts
14:22.22dick_turpinboudiccas: Don't start me on that one bloody council and recycling
14:22.28catalystmikejw: where did you find it? :P
14:29.28boudiccasdick_turpin; i was just explaining the new policy on honey carts
14:33.39dick_turpinboudiccas: We get charged council tax part of which is to take rubbish away
14:33.57dick_turpinboudiccas: The council sells our paper, glass etc
14:34.08dick_turpinboudiccas: They keep the money from that
14:34.41dick_turpinboudiccas: They have sent us a letter regarding NOT putting the recycle bin out
14:34.59dick_turpinboudiccas: And a possible fine for not doing so
14:35.36dick_turpinboudiccas: And now they want to charge us for taking all the waste away on top of the council tax!
14:36.36boudiccasbut, dick_turpin what did they say about the noney carts???
14:37.22dick_turpinboudiccas: You would pay for them so it would be free for us :-)
14:38.10boudiccasbut we already pay for our own honey carts
14:38.53boudiccaswhy should we pay for yours too?? they don't collect from us, and on weeks when they don't collect we have to take our night soil to their specialist dump
14:39.18boudiccasand thats a pretty shi**y place!
14:39.28boudiccas:))))
14:42.26dick_turpinboudiccas: Ha the tip!! thats even worse, they check your driving license up here no license no tip
14:44.23boudiccassounds reasnable to me. helps to ensure that people have current driving licences, and i bet they also check your vehicle has the proper road tax disc displayed too
14:52.00dick_turpinboudiccas: You Muppet, they check the postcode if you ain't local they throw you out
14:52.01boudiccasdick_turpin; what do they actually check on the driving licences? your address? to see if you live within the catchment area of the tip?
14:52.46boudiccasdick_turpin;  i'd just realised that, and i aint no muppet. no one is controlling me with strings or sticks :)))
14:53.11dick_turpinboudiccas: Thats even if they let you tip I took some wood the other month "What sort of wood is it?"
14:53.30dick_turpinbou How the F do I know its bloody wood for gods sake
14:53.52boudiccasdick_turpin; you should've said 'dead wood'
14:54.34boudiccasbut then they'd probably say that you couldnt leave it there because you were being mouthy and uppity
14:54.41dick_turpinboudiccas: I saw them make this poor women rip open every plastic bag she had to check what she had
14:55.01boudiccasbeing disrespectful of their honourable calling, of tip guardians
14:55.57boudiccassounds like their control freaks
14:56.05bilarhphew, just racked six new disk trays
14:57.12bilarhsweating like a pig
15:05.17dick_turpinboudiccas: Na its called using the rules to do as little as possible
15:07.02boudiccascould be dick_turpin could be. i haven't seen them 'at work' so i cant really comment
15:07.51bilarhtips really get my goat too
15:07.58bilarhevery time i go there's like a one hour queue
15:17.09dick_turpinThats because they are checking whats worth nicking and whats worth refusing
15:43.07*** join/#gllug Discordian (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk)
16:04.09*** join/#gllug etorix (n=etorix@unaffiliated/etorix)
16:58.39mikejwcatalyst: pretty much where I'd left it :P
17:02.04*** join/#gllug Armand (n=mcagame@82-44-158-100.cable.ubr02.haye.blueyonder.co.uk)
17:11.42*** join/#gllug Discordian (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk)
17:12.50ArmandDiscordian!!
17:14.17DiscordianGood evening
17:14.39ArmandHow are you?
17:16.51Discordiannot bad, yourself?
17:22.10ArmandWell, slightly pissed off.
17:22.33ArmandMy stepdad is being a cock.. he was hiding the mains adapter for the cable modem.
17:23.07ArmandSo I ripped out ALL of the LAN kit from upstairs, and I'm using a wifi adapter to connect now.
17:23.16*** part/#gllug cup (n=teacup@netvoya-adsl.demon.co.uk)
17:24.20Discordianoook
17:24.47DiscordianThat seems a little silly
17:25.00ArmandWell, he will find out how stupid it is, when he tries to e-mail his timesheets for work. :P
17:25.25Discordianor watch telly presumably
17:25.47ArmandO_o
17:26.48ArmandIt sucks, wifi adds so much latency.. so I dare not play CS:S
17:26.55Armandhence, being pissed off.
17:28.03DiscordianI think all the local people have secured their wifis these days
17:28.43DiscordianI could see 5 open WAPs at one point
17:45.19ArmandI have Backtrack2 Live CD, so I scanned before I setup the router, I found 7 APs.. only 2 using WEP, everything else is WPA
17:45.53Discordianthat sounds windowsy
17:46.00Armand??
17:46.22DiscordianActually I have no idea what it is
17:47.25ArmandIt's a Linux distro for "security specialists"
17:47.51ArmandFor prodding & poking networks to find vunerabilities, so you can secure them.
17:48.01DiscordianAhh right
17:48.26Discordiansoon to be illegal then maybe if HMG have their way
17:48.27antiphasejailbait.iso
17:48.39ArmandI often leave it running Autoscan to check my network.
17:48.45wethrinShould be okay on your own network, no?
17:48.50wethrinOr one you have permission to run it on
17:48.53ArmandOf course. :)
17:49.32ArmandIt will inform me if anything connects to my network, so I can see if they should be, or not. :)
17:49.51wethrinSo limit you access point to only certain MAC addresses
17:50.00wethrin*your
17:50.15DiscordianMAC addresses are easily faked
17:50.16ArmandWell, I have that set on my router already. :)
17:50.27ArmandDiscordian: I know. ;)
17:50.28wethrinDiscordian: The trouble is finding out *which* MAC addresses are allowed
17:50.43wethrinFaking one is trivial. Faking the *correct* one is hard
17:51.08ArmandWell, Kismet will list the MAC address of anything, including the router itself.
17:51.17wethrinEven if you're not connected to the network?
17:51.27Armandyeah, it's passive
17:51.27DiscordianI've never tried to hack anyone's network
17:51.32Armandme neither.
17:51.40Armandnot even my own. :P
17:51.51wethrinSpoofing the MAC address of the router would be silly
17:51.56ArmandTrue..
17:52.22*** join/#gllug chris- (n=chatzill@crag1.plus.com)
17:52.27wethrinAlthough if you're truly paranoid, you wouldn't run a wireless network.
17:52.27ArmandIt can also find IP addresses, but I've only ever seen 1 come up.. and that was my own. :P
17:52.53ArmandI didn't have a choice, my brother got the router so he could use his laptop wireless.
17:53.02DiscordianNot handing out IP addresses via the wifi is good
17:53.21ArmandDiscordian: DHCP, easier for me. :P
17:53.39Discordianeasier for intruders too
17:54.07wethrinStatic address. Non-routable. No SSID broadcast. Tie down MAC address. And then VPN into your home network.
17:54.14ArmandOh well.. doesn't seem to be an issue atm.
17:54.49ArmandIf I noticed something out of the ordinary, I would beef it up a bit.. until then, cba.
17:54.59DiscordianI don't broadcast my SSID
17:55.08ArmandBesides, the weaker it is atm, the better. :)
17:55.29ArmandIf someone violates it.. it justifies ME having total control. :D
17:55.43etorixnobody here is in HK or taiwan and awake, eh
17:55.54wethrinAt home, I just rely on the laws of Physics to secure outside access to my WAP
17:56.04DiscordianPossibly not
17:56.04wethrinetorix: Not unless Leeds is around
17:56.07Armandwethrin: A hammer?
17:56.12wethrinThat's Engineering
17:56.23Armandnot when you throw it. ^_^
17:56.42wethrina) It's too far from the road for pasers-by. b) Cavity walls don't generally allow the signal out
17:57.08ArmandWell, if that works. ;)
17:57.15wethrinIt does
17:57.29ArmandPlus, those standard antennas are complete shit.
17:57.43Discordianyou'd have to be in my garden I think to get wifi access
17:57.59DiscordianThe road is a way off
17:58.01wethrinArmand: Hence it doesn't reach the road
17:58.13ArmandMine covers the house quite nicely, but my PC got a shit connection with the standard antenna.
17:58.16wethrinMm....and if someone is in your garden, you generally have more important things to worry about
17:58.26DiscordianThere's always cantennas
17:58.42ArmandDiscordian: I made a wok-tenna ^_^
17:58.50DiscordianIf they're in my garden
17:59.13DiscordianThey should be worrying that I'll dial 999
18:00.33etorixThe Time in Taiwan is currently 02:00:10  (02:00:10 AM )
18:00.38etorixok
18:00.54DiscordianAnd see
18:01.02DiscordianThis is gllug
18:01.14DiscordianGreater London Linux User Group
18:01.14Armand"Greater London".. hhmm..
18:01.19Armand^_^
18:01.24wethrinFor some definition of 'Greater'
18:01.35wethrinWhich certainly includes Hong Kong
18:01.40ArmandNot that I see whats so "Great" about it.. ¬_¬
18:02.05etorixits a server in taiwan that im worried about
18:02.08DiscordianIn the context it's a political term
18:02.33ArmandDiscordian: As in "You ARE part of London, weither you like it or not!!"
18:02.43DiscordianDenoting a region of the UK
18:02.50DiscordianI dunno
18:03.31DiscordianI'm proud to live in Greater London and vote for the mayor and the GLA
18:03.33ArmandWhat I really hate.. Feltham or Harlington refered to as "Heathrow"
18:03.54ArmandThat is so stupid..
18:04.22Discordianthey're a way from Heathrow
18:04.34ArmandWell, right next to it, but nm.
18:04.35antiphasePersonally, I haven't a scooby where either of them are, but I know where Heathrow is
18:04.48Armand^ read above. :P
18:05.06DiscordianI used to commute to Maidenhead via hayes
18:05.24ArmandHayes sucks, but we've had that discussion before, I'm sure.. ?!
18:05.29wethrinantiphase: I don't think it's a place people really want to go
18:05.31DiscordianThere's several hayes in greater london
18:05.37ArmandReally?
18:05.40ArmandOh well.
18:05.52DiscordianThere's one near Bromley
18:05.54ArmandCan't be any shitter that this one.
18:06.09Armands/that/than..
18:06.11DiscordianI went through it daily for a few years
18:06.44ArmandI hate it, dirty little town.. full of dickheads/chavs/people who can't understand/speak english..
18:08.03DiscordianChavs generally don't make sense
18:08.09Armandagreed.
18:08.23ArmandNot as bad as travellers though.
18:08.48DiscordianI've no problems with travellers
18:10.01ArmandSame, but they sure as hell don't speak english. :P
18:10.48DiscordianThe ones I know speak cockney as well as anyone does here
18:11.06ArmandO_o
18:11.23ArmandI've only come across the "Irish" variety..
18:11.47DiscordianI'm thinking Romany
18:12.02ArmandWell, that's slightly different
18:12.08Discordianif that's how it's spelt
18:13.07ArmandDunno, but yeah, they are a different sort.
18:14.22DiscordianI have no problems with what you call the "Irish" sort either
18:14.52ArmandPerhaps it's just the ones you meet, rather than background.
18:15.08ArmandYou get arseholes from all backgrounds, I suppose.
18:15.24Discordianthat's true of course
18:16.01ArmandWell hell, I just have to look at my dad. :P
18:16.19DiscordianHarsh
18:17.15ArmandBut true..
18:17.31ArmandIf you knew him, you would understand.
18:25.20Armandok, Mein Kampf.. sure is some heavy reading. O_o
18:25.27ArmandThink I'll leave that for now. :P
18:25.35DiscordianErrr
18:25.46DiscordianThat's pretty grim
18:25.52ArmandPure curiosity..
18:26.03ArmandSame as the bible.
18:26.18ArmandSure, I've read the bible, don't mean I believe in it.
18:26.27ArmandIt's just a book.
18:26.45Discordiani'm well read in xian stuff
18:27.05Armand?
18:27.11ArmandWhat's that?
18:27.34Discordianxian=christian
18:27.38Armand*Too much weed means brain like fish!*
18:27.43ArmandAhh..
18:27.53DiscordianI'm an atheist
18:28.02LeedsDiscordian: not a follower of Eris?
18:28.14DiscordianWell hail eris etc
18:28.15ArmandI don't have any religious beliefs.
18:29.31Discordianmein kampf is a very eclectic work
18:30.04Discordianreminds me a bit in it's philosophical bits of Wittgenstein
18:30.07ArmandIt's a lot to read, so I won't make any assessment of it yet.
18:30.31DiscordianIt's politics is foul and despicable
18:31.14ArmandWell, that's fair to assume, of anything involving hitler.
18:32.16Discordian"who would know the enemy, in the enemies' land must go" as Turgenev says somewhere
18:32.45Armando_ô
18:33.05Discordianapplies to MS too lol
18:33.09Armandhehe
18:33.46ArmandI'm trying to read something about packet sniffing atm, whilst my brother is chatting shit for no apparent reason..
18:34.44Discordianthere's an app that sniffs graphics
18:34.56ArmandI've heard..
18:35.01Discordianrunning that is always interesting
18:35.05ArmandAlthough, the point of such a thing.. ?!
18:35.26ArmandWhat's that thing called, stenographics, or something?
18:35.34Discordiannah
18:35.46Discordianstegnography is something else
18:35.47ArmandErm, encrypted message, hidden in a picture. ?
18:35.58DiscordianThat's stegnography
18:36.21DiscordianI used to admin a web proxy
18:36.32ArmandYeah, now that would make sense, if you could intercept the picture, and decode it..
18:36.32Discordianfor a Council
18:36.37Armandbut that's about it.
18:36.52DiscordianIt was amazing what the Councillors looked at
18:36.56ArmandUnless, your brother is DLing pron on your shared connection. :P
18:37.00Armandhahaha
18:37.10ArmandLike what.. ?
18:37.24Armandmidget goat pron? :P
18:37.25Discordianporn
18:37.28Armandhahaha
18:37.29DiscordianXXX sites
18:37.44ArmandSurely, just the web logs would be enough.. ?!
18:38.19DiscordianI believe words were had
18:38.40Ch0Haghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1M-IafCor4
19:06.28*** join/#gllug secretlondon (i=secretlo@wikipedia/secretlondon)
19:06.32secretlondonello
19:06.43DiscordianHI
19:06.47ArmandHerro!
19:07.17Discordianor even hi
19:07.37ArmandYEAH, NO NEED TO SHOUT! ^_^
19:07.37Discordiannow i've fixed my keyboard
19:07.56DiscordianI apologise
19:08.01Armandhehe
19:08.46Discordianmea culpa
19:09.47secretlondonoh noes - the draks!
19:09.56Discordiandrak?
19:10.07Armandyup, right where you should be. ^_^
19:10.10secretlondonpresume typo
19:10.15Armandnope..
19:10.49ArmandDiscordian: You still in Netgoths IRC?? Ask there. :P
19:11.04secretlondoneek netgoths
19:11.26DiscordianI am of course
19:11.39Armandcba with it myself..
19:11.44Armandless than no point.
19:11.44secretlondonthis would explain why you are generally on at night
19:11.56Discordianmoi?
19:12.09secretlondonyeah if I'm on here at 2am you are always here ;)
19:12.17Discordiani was around at 6am
19:12.25*** join/#gllug kjalil (n=kjalil@host86-136-71-110.range86-136.btcentralplus.com)
19:12.26Discordianno one else was
19:12.35kjalilhello
19:14.01kjalilhmm, i have a strange problem. i have a router box running debian that is forwarding ping fine, but not telnet?? this was working, then stopped working when I installed X and did a 'apt upgrade' on the box which upgraded the kernel
19:15.25etorixapt-get upgrade upgraded the kernel?
19:15.30secretlondonI don't know enough about it to check
19:15.38kjaliletorix: yes.
19:15.42secretlondonetorix: ubuntu does that certainly just a point
19:15.55kjalilis there anything in a kernel that would change ip_forward behaviour?
19:16.01etorixsure it wasnt dist-upgrade
19:16.06kjaliletorix: no
19:16.24secretlondonit'll be a point upgrade rather than a big upgrade
19:16.27kjalilwhy does it forward ping just fine but not other ports
19:17.05Discordianmaybe it changed the /proc settings
19:17.30etorixhow big a jump in kernel-version
19:17.46DiscordianOn Redhat derived stuff that'd be /etc/sysconfig/sysctl
19:18.30Discordianand /etc/sysctl.conf
19:20.02kjalilnah, about the same kernel version, nothing major at all.
19:20.10kjalili enable ip_forward manually
19:20.37DiscordianDid iptables change?
19:21.09kjalilthe only thing i remember is I added an entry to the hosts file which points to a host which is on the *other* network, but the ip is not the same.
19:21.14kjalilcould that affect anything?
19:21.43kjalilDiscordian: i never touched iptables, it was always empty
19:21.48kjalilconfig I mean
19:22.03DiscordianRouting tables changes might
19:22.43kjalilyeah i checked that too. hmm. a forwarding router box doesn't need a default route, does it? it just forwards all traffic.
19:22.50DiscordianDepending on what you're seeing
19:23.18kjalilping is being forwarded just fine
19:41.33*** join/#gllug curson (n=curzon@79-69-108-154.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
19:43.17kjalilantiphase: hello
19:43.25antiphaseBooyakasha
19:43.31kjalilwell, i'll have to test again on monday. this is driving me nuts
19:43.38wethrinwhunk
19:43.45antiphaseLike a steering wheel down your pants?
19:44.02wethrinyarr
19:44.16Armandhehee
19:44.22kjalilantiphase: there IS a firewall b/w the box i'm using to send the pings and the router, but that is set to "allow any to any" and I never touched the settings.
19:44.26kjalilwethrin: hello
19:44.40antiphaseIs b/w "betwixt"?
19:44.51antiphaseSlightly old skool if so
19:44.53kjalilantiphase: strange thing, pings are going through but nothing else
19:44.57kjalilbetween :)
19:45.12antiphase"Any to any
19:45.17antiphase"can mean many things
19:45.31antiphaseTurn it off entirely until you can prove it's not at fault
19:45.39antiphaseProviding that's safe of course
19:45.51kjalilwell, allow from anywhere to anything on any ports
19:46.22kjalili never changed any settings on it anyway
19:46.53kjalilantiphase: can a hosts file entry cause forwarding confusion?
19:46.53antiphaseIt's difficult to say more without some idea about your setup and what you want to achieve
19:47.13antiphasehosts and DNS are several levels above your problem :)
19:47.46kjalilantiphase: yeah i'll try to explain more on monday if i can't get it working. it's friday, got to go :)
19:48.08antiphaseL8rz
19:48.31kjalilsee ya, thanks
19:48.35kjalilwethrin: laters ...
20:46.14*** join/#gllug Discordian (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk)
20:48.25DiscordianRe
20:49.07Armandd00d!
21:00.44secretlondonwhat's the klug thing, and what's the k?
21:01.14DiscordianK as in kent LUG
21:01.18secretlondonk
21:01.36antiphasee
21:01.44secretlondonn
21:01.52antiphaset
21:02.26DiscordianI live in SE London anent Kent for my sins
22:17.39*** join/#gllug catalyst` (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild)
23:41.13*** join/#gllug poeloq (n=poeloq@77-99-188-44.cable.ubr01.hari.blueyonder.co.uk)
23:44.05secretlondonfriday night in london and the excitement of freenode
23:45.30DiscordianIs that good?
23:45.42secretlondonnot really
23:45.44wethrinIt's an exciting life
23:45.49secretlondonexactly
23:46.08secretlondonI suppose finding a channel with activity would help
23:46.21DiscordianGotta be worse
23:46.33cpufreaknot alone though
23:47.54wethrinIsn't it a bit late to be at work?
23:48.22cpufreakI've not got to bed before 4am this year
23:48.50wethrinI take it you're not in for 9am, then
23:49.01cpufreakusually up and working for 9am
23:49.42wethrinmad person
23:49.53cpufreakstuff needs doing
23:50.11cpufreakwhen it calms down I'll hold true on my promise to do a gllug talk
23:51.15wethrinHurrah!
23:51.29wethrinI might even be interested into organising them again by then
23:52.58cpufreak:)
23:55.28wethrinVery soon, I shall have a job to hold down, and a th*s*s to write, so I can't give it time
23:55.45cpufreak\o/
23:56.01secretlondonwhich means someone will have to run the bloody thing
23:56.30cpufreakno
23:56.33cpufreakthats what scripts are for.
23:56.37secretlondonor it won't exist
23:56.45secretlondonfeel free to script it
23:56.59wethrinYes, a script should run it!
23:57.06cpufreakI will in the copious amounts of spare time I have
23:57.07cpufreakoh wairt.
23:57.31wethrinI think your copious amounts of free time are marginally less than mine
23:58.59cpufreakI have a good 4-5 hrs off a day
23:59.04cpufreakbut I slack off and sleep during them
23:59.17wethrinslacker :-P
23:59.18secretlondonI hope you get paid enough for that..

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