| 01:50.18 | *** join/#gllug etorix (n=etorix@unaffiliated/etorix) |
| 02:23.23 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=rcohen@210.5.166.114) |
| 02:42.06 | *** join/#gllug Discordian (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 06:49.58 | *** join/#gllug xteddy (n=bear@gemini.starshine.org) |
| 08:09.01 | *** join/#gllug blight (n=blight@83.244.128.126) |
| 08:34.39 | *** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild) |
| 09:13.30 | *** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild) |
| 09:24.08 | *** join/#gllug kc (n=keith@87-194-168-239.bethere.co.uk) |
| 09:25.32 | *** join/#gllug AnneC (n=chatzill@cmarfw01.marlow.spinvox.com) |
| 09:32.39 | *** join/#gllug ElPenguin (n=ElPengui@foresight/developer/elpenguin) |
| 10:08.39 | *** part/#gllug Leeds (n=rcohen@210.5.166.114) |
| 10:14.20 | *** join/#gllug huw-l (n=huw@w1199.insrv.cf.ac.uk) |
| 10:23.06 | Ch0Hag | Why is Windows so retarded? |
| 10:23.26 | Ch0Hag | I'm being forced here to use it as a DNS server, so I get a client to look up google as a test and the event viewer says |
| 10:23.49 | Ch0Hag | The DNS server encountered a packet addressed to itself on IP address 192.168.16.2. The packet is for the DNS name "www.google.co.uk.". The packet will be discarded. This condition usually indicates a configuration error. |
| 10:23.59 | Ch0Hag | It's not an error. It's what's supposed to bloody happen. |
| 11:20.00 | *** join/#gllug kjalil (n=kjalil@83-244-193-205.cust-83.exponential-e.net) |
| 11:20.25 | kjalil | morning |
| 11:21.42 | *** join/#gllug curson (n=curzon@79-69-37-172.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 11:23.29 | kjalil | wethrin: ? |
| 11:23.32 | kjalil | antiphase: ? |
| 11:45.23 | *** join/#gllug secretlondon (i=secretlo@wikipedia/secretlondon) |
| 11:45.36 | secretlondon | hi |
| 11:49.04 | Discordian | hi |
| 11:52.18 | wethrin | kjalil: Yo? |
| 11:52.20 | wethrin | Ah, secretlondon! |
| 12:15.54 | secretlondon | hi |
| 12:16.09 | secretlondon | hades likes me today :) |
| 12:16.17 | secretlondon | and yesterday I was out |
| 12:18.51 | antiphase | YO |
| 12:27.58 | wethrin | secretlondon: Yeah, a python process ran away unchecked |
| 12:28.01 | wethrin | python-- |
| 12:28.10 | antiphase | +1 |
| 12:48.30 | *** join/#gllug boudiccas (n=boudicca@88-108-114-23.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 12:49.51 | blight | All, what flags do I need to pass autoconf at ./configure time to use libs in a non-std directory ... |
| 12:50.14 | blight | ./configure LDFLAGS=-L/path/to/libs doesn't seem to work ... |
| 12:50.21 | *** join/#gllug tripitaka (n=chatzill@mail2.tfsbrokers.com) |
| 12:50.49 | tripitaka | afternoon all. Anyone know a good way to identify what's using RAM? |
| 12:52.22 | blight | tripitaka: top? |
| 12:52.34 | blight | tripitaka: ps? memhog? |
| 12:53.12 | antiphase | `LDFLAGS=foo ./configure`, or export LDFLAGS into your environment before running configure |
| 12:53.28 | tripitaka | you'd think. top and ps show almost no memory in use (all the %mem fields are 0.0), but free shows nearly all my memory is used |
| 12:53.42 | kjalil | tripitaka: run top, then press 'M' key to sort by memory |
| 12:53.49 | kjalil | antiphase: hello :) |
| 12:53.59 | antiphase | Hi |
| 12:54.04 | tripitaka | kjalil: thanks, I did that, it shows all processes using 0.0% |
| 12:54.10 | kjalil | oops |
| 12:54.39 | kjalil | antiphase: i sorted out that router box problem, i'm not sure what it was, i just started working today |
| 12:54.48 | kjalil | s/I/it/ |
| 12:55.28 | antiphase | Heh |
| 12:56.40 | kjalil | tripitaka: that means that your computer is off :) |
| 12:57.06 | tripitaka | I'm starting to think it should be |
| 12:58.06 | kjalil | tripitaka: there should be something using a little memory. i've got a pc next to me running debian without X and bash is using 0.3% memory |
| 12:59.05 | tripitaka | kjalil: the host has a lot of RAM, and it's sitting idle. `free` seems to think it's almost out of RAM, though. |
| 13:00.00 | kjalil | tripitaka: ah |
| 13:00.12 | antiphase | Do the numbers add up? |
| 13:00.17 | kjalil | tripitaka: you understand how free reports memory i hope? |
| 13:00.33 | kjalil | tripitaka: you need to take the buffers/cache into account |
| 13:00.34 | antiphase | i.e. used+free+buffers+cached = total |
| 13:00.46 | tripitaka | I'm looking at the "-/+ buffers/cache" line |
| 13:01.13 | antiphase | They should add up to the total, nothing more though |
| 13:01.59 | tripitaka | on the "-/+ buffers/cache" line, used and free add up to total |
| 13:02.05 | tripitaka | and free is tiny |
| 13:02.27 | tripitaka | same picture in /proc/meminfo |
| 13:02.55 | tripitaka | wierd |
| 13:02.55 | antiphase | That just means the kernel has used all the viable cache memory |
| 13:03.28 | tripitaka | antiphase: is there a way to see what the kernel's using? |
| 13:03.36 | antiphase | Why? |
| 13:04.18 | kjalil | antiphase: in my case, the "Total" figure on the left is equal to used+free only, not +buffers+cache |
| 13:04.21 | tripitaka | this is not something I've seen before. I usually rely on top to give me an accurate measure of the memory usage |
| 13:04.23 | antiphase | Is there actually a problem? Otherwise I'd suggest reading the kernel source and other stuff on memory allocation in your Copious Free Time :) |
| 13:04.49 | antiphase | kjalil: Yeah, ENOTENOUGHCAFFEINE |
| 13:05.00 | tripitaka | the /proc/meminfo slab value is very small |
| 13:05.02 | kjalil | lol |
| 13:05.18 | kjalil | ah, the joys of C and system programming :) |
| 13:05.53 | antiphase | http://pastebin.com/d5e55fdf8 |
| 13:05.58 | antiphase | There's mine. |
| 13:07.39 | tripitaka | http://pastebin.com/m2d7f69c3 |
| 13:07.43 | tripitaka | memindo |
| 13:07.45 | tripitaka | *f |
| 13:08.09 | tripitaka | sar is also under the impression that %memused is 95% |
| 13:08.38 | tripitaka | but `ps -eo cmd,pmem` shows nothing using more than 0.0% used ram |
| 13:09.07 | kjalil | tripitaka: eh, how much ram is that? 6gig? |
| 13:09.12 | tripitaka | *10 |
| 13:09.16 | antiphase | 64GB |
| 13:09.25 | tripitaka | blame oracle |
| 13:09.39 | kjalil | wow, i was afraid to ask |
| 13:10.59 | kjalil | tripitaka: well, maybe ps and top is rounding it off to .0%? because you have such a lot of ram? |
| 13:12.29 | tripitaka | well, there's only 180 processes running, none of which should be using much ram at all (the machine is idling), if something was using 60GB RAM I'm thinking it would show up |
| 13:12.35 | antiphase | I'm wondering , given that it's idle, whether this machine is in service or if it has just been built |
| 13:12.46 | tripitaka | it was built a couple of weeks ago |
| 13:13.04 | antiphase | because I don't think you can just stuff 64GB of RAM in a machine and expect it to just work |
| 13:13.08 | tripitaka | and since it was installed, mrtg shows the available ram continuously declining |
| 13:13.30 | tripitaka | antiphase: I have several machines with the same spec, which have been running for a long time |
| 13:13.35 | antiphase | Reboot it then |
| 13:13.49 | wethrin | So something's leaking.... |
| 13:13.53 | antiphase | Then complain to Oracle about their leaky software |
| 13:13.55 | tripitaka | I've rebooted it before, it still leaks |
| 13:14.05 | tripitaka | it's idling - there's no oracle process running |
| 13:14.29 | wethrin | Is there a hidden Firefox process running? |
| 13:14.34 | antiphase | :) |
| 13:14.45 | tripitaka | heh |
| 13:14.58 | wethrin | (Please note: the Firefox leak is a *feature*, not a bug, so won't be fixed) |
| 13:15.00 | tripitaka | two tabs ope, 30GB each |
| 13:15.10 | antiphase | All you can do it try and run your crappy database under a profiling tool and see if you can see it losing memory |
| 13:15.17 | kjalil | tripitaka: what is the machine arch, and what os is on it? |
| 13:15.27 | tripitaka | antiphase: the thing is, the database isn't running |
| 13:15.33 | tripitaka | x86_64, RHEL4.5 |
| 13:16.12 | antiphase | I don't know if Linux will deallocate allocated memory on process exit, or whether leaks mean it's gone forever |
| 13:16.22 | antiphase | My kernel fu is weak |
| 13:16.39 | kjalil | tripitaka: can you change runlevel down, and then back up so some processes will exit? |
| 13:16.56 | kjalil | maybe free up some ram? |
| 13:17.16 | kjalil | when you power it up fresh, how much is used/free? |
| 13:17.30 | wethrin | Linux should deallocate memory on process exit |
| 13:17.36 | wethrin | Otherwise it's a fundamentally broken OS |
| 13:17.51 | tripitaka | kjalik: it's a good idea. I suppose I can disable rc scripts one at a time and see if the leak continues. Still, it's irritating not being able to see where the RAM is |
| 13:18.14 | kjalil | wethrin: well, it seems there are no processes running that are using up that ram |
| 13:18.23 | wethrin | However, there might be reasons why some memory can't be freed up on exit |
| 13:19.03 | kjalil | tripitaka: what processes are there? even if they are not using any ram |
| 13:19.25 | tripitaka | kjalik: sendmail, snmpd etc. I'm killing them one by one |
| 13:21.38 | kjalil | hmm |
| 13:23.02 | tripitaka | it's running by the skin of its teeth, no change to ram usage |
| 13:23.17 | kjalil | tripitaka: when you restart it, does it look the same? |
| 13:23.39 | tripitaka | when it restarts, it starts normally with very little ram used |
| 13:23.57 | kjalil | tripitaka: ok, so restart with only a few things. something is using up ram and not freeing it |
| 13:24.00 | tripitaka | and over a period of about a week, the ram leaks away somewhere |
| 13:24.06 | antiphase | I think you should try disabling your database, then rebooting and leaving it for a bit to see if something else is leaking |
| 13:24.10 | kjalil | tripitaka: without oracle running? |
| 13:24.18 | antiphase | Then start Oracle under a profiling tool, and watch the leaks |
| 13:24.19 | tripitaka | oracle is disabled |
| 13:24.26 | kjalil | antiphase: yeah exactly |
| 13:24.26 | antiphase | Then invoke your support contract |
| 13:24.34 | kjalil | lol |
| 13:24.52 | tripitaka | antiphase: IRC in one window, support in the other :) |
| 13:25.07 | kjalil | tripitaka: are you saying leaks are occurring without oracle running? |
| 13:25.33 | tripitaka | kjalil: yep |
| 13:25.51 | kjalil | tripitaka: so what else is there on startup? |
| 13:25.56 | *** join/#gllug savetheWorld (n=Lester@about/linux/staff/savetheWorld) |
| 13:26.05 | kjalil | tripitaka: if you start in single user mode, does it still happen? |
| 13:26.32 | tripitaka | nothing that's not running on a bunch of other machines. Not sure about single user, as it takes several hours / days to be apparent |
| 13:27.05 | tripitaka | I'll try redhat and see what they say |
| 13:27.29 | kjalil | tripitaka: hmm. yeah |
| 13:36.36 | *** join/#gllug flips_and_rails (n=stu@cv-kraken.cv.ic.ac.uk) |
| 13:38.35 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 14:10.46 | bilarh | dick_turpin |
| 14:11.51 | bilarh | antiphase: only kernel memory leaks do not get given back to the free pool |
| 14:11.54 | bilarh | afaik |
| 14:16.08 | kjalil | bilarh: hi |
| 14:17.26 | dick_turpin | bilarh: That was a long toilet break? |
| 14:21.17 | *** join/#gllug savetheWorld (n=Lester@about/linux/staff/savetheWorld) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:21.17 | *** join/#gllug secretlondon (i=secretlo@wikipedia/secretlondon) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:21.17 | *** join/#gllug curson (n=curzon@79-69-37-172.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:21.17 | *** join/#gllug Provito (n=Provito@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/Provito) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:30.43 | *** part/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 14:30.54 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 14:56.36 | bilarh | when did i say i was going to the toilet? |
| 14:56.43 | bilarh | i'm going there again now |
| 14:57.50 | antiphase | Noted. |
| 14:57.54 | kjalil | bilarh: good luck |
| 14:59.44 | wethrin | So we can tell bilarh's boss how much time he wastes on the John |
| 15:02.32 | dick_turpin | Bloody hell its like London Buses here, one minute its Marie celeste the next there's 42 of em |
| 15:05.07 | bilarh | linux enterprise ready my ass |
| 15:05.19 | bilarh | i spit at its shit of a filesystem |
| 15:05.30 | kjalil | bilarh: your ass? did you just come from the toilet? |
| 15:05.42 | bilarh | i didn't even have a chance to go yet |
| 15:05.47 | bilarh | some user had pebkac problems |
| 15:16.16 | bilarh | dick_turpin: why the lop-sided face? |
| 15:16.35 | *** join/#gllug AnneC_ (n=chatzill@78-86-174-153.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 15:18.10 | Ch0Hag | Rayol mail have loads of information about the costs of sending things of different weights and sizes to various countries, but they don't seem to say anywhere how much a first class stamp is. |
| 15:18.26 | Ch0Hag | They do imply it by giving the cost of a letter sent first class. |
| 15:18.48 | Ch0Hag | Now forgive me if my childish memory is failing me, but didn't the stamps used to just have the monetary value on them? |
| 15:18.53 | Ch0Hag | Because that would be, liek, sensible. |
| 15:19.13 | huw-l | They stopped doing that because they changed the price so often |
| 15:19.19 | bilarh | ch0hag: sucks if you have stamps and the price changes |
| 15:20.36 | Ch0Hag | So how much *is* a 1st class stamp? |
| 15:20.36 | bilarh | it's almost like you're buying postage cost futures when you buy stamps :D |
| 15:20.36 | Ch0Hag | It will cost 69p to post this letter, and I don't know how many 1p stamps I need. |
| 15:22.25 | Ch0Hag | 100 costs £34. So is a stamp 34p or does that include a bulk discount? |
| 15:24.07 | Ch0Hag | Why does the information age seem to have begun an age when nobody gives you any information? |
| 15:26.10 | antiphase | You don't get a discount |
| 15:28.01 | Ch0Hag | Thankyou. |
| 15:28.06 | Ch0Hag | Now why couldn't they say that. |
| 15:28.21 | tripitaka | antiphase: that RAM problem I was talking about before? I just opened a console to find the following message: "Uhhuh. NMI received. Dazed and confused, but trying to continue. You probably have a hardware problem with your RAM chips" :D |
| 15:28.30 | Ch0Hag | Something like 'A sheet of 100 1st class stamps of 34p each.' |
| 15:28.46 | tripitaka | concise *and* amusing |
| 15:30.23 | kjalil | tripitaka: interesting |
| 15:31.14 | Ch0Hag | dmesg is your friend. |
| 15:31.30 | antiphase | The problem you may have is that you have 64GB of RAM, and some swap, and not enough bits to address it all |
| 15:32.04 | antiphase | I'm not convinced Linux can support more than 64GB total |
| 15:32.09 | tripitaka | nah, 12GB SWAP, and I have numerous other similar machines without a problem |
| 15:32.26 | antiphase | Having swap is a bit stupid anyway |
| 15:32.26 | tripitaka | I've got one with 64GB RAM and 48GB swap, been up for over a year |
| 15:32.46 | kjalil | what is the linux limit for ram on x64? |
| 15:32.52 | tripitaka | if it hadn't had the swap, it would have fallen over |
| 15:32.53 | antiphase | Unless your databases are so huge that they can't fit in RAM |
| 15:33.08 | tripitaka | kjalil: huge |
| 15:33.30 | kjalil | tripitaka: really old message |
| 15:33.31 | kjalil | http://lists.us.dell.com/pipermail/linux-poweredge/2002-September/004296.html |
| 15:34.39 | tripitaka | cueing up memtest86 now |
| 15:39.21 | Ch0Hag | fortune: Swap read error. You lose your mind. |
| 16:31.31 | Ch0Hag | What's Exchange's retry timeout in case of a SMTP 450? |
| 16:31.55 | Ch0Hag | (ie. temporary failure due to greylisting) |
| 16:41.36 | *** part/#gllug huw-l (n=huw@w1199.insrv.cf.ac.uk) |
| 16:55.48 | kjalil | ooh, let me ask here as well |
| 16:56.01 | kjalil | is a load avg of 4.6, 2.3, 1.5 bad? |
| 16:58.10 | kjalil | has everyone left? |
| 17:00.35 | Ch0Hag | Depends what it's doing. |
| 17:00.37 | tripitaka | kjalil: I'm here, load depends on what you're doing with the machine |
| 17:00.47 | tripitaka | *beaten |
| 17:01.06 | kjalil | a lot of spamassassin + clamav processes and httpd processes |
| 17:01.15 | kjalil | constantly scanning incoming mail |
| 17:01.31 | Ch0Hag | Then that's probably normal. |
| 17:01.43 | Ch0Hag | SA needs a lot of horsepower. |
| 17:01.56 | Ch0Hag | Whether that's good or bad is a matter of opinion. |
| 17:02.03 | kjalil | ah, so it's not the case that the machine is underpowered? it is not always supposed to be below 1, for example, even under load? |
| 17:02.12 | tripitaka | kjalil: do you graph load aves with mrtg? I find that can be useful |
| 17:02.13 | Ch0Hag | No. |
| 17:02.25 | kjalil | tripitaka: never used mrtg |
| 17:02.26 | Ch0Hag | Above 1 can happen legitimately. |
| 17:02.29 | kjalil | must try it |
| 17:02.32 | Ch0Hag | Especially with multiple cores. |
| 17:02.50 | kjalil | Ch0Hag: this is a single core powerpc G4 1.25 |
| 17:03.09 | kjalil | Ch0Hag: above 1 for all the time is not a problem then? |
| 17:03.34 | Ch0Hag | It's not a problem, per se, but it's an indication that you might want to look at upgrading. |
| 17:03.38 | antiphase | CPU utilisation is a more realistic measure of how much work the machine is doing. High load average tends to point to external delays, or an extremely overloaded CPU |
| 17:03.40 | tripitaka | IIRC, the console keyboard will feel sticky at 1 minute load average about 20 |
| 17:04.15 | kjalil | hmm, yeah or I can reduce the number of amavis servers to reduce the load |
| 17:04.28 | tripitaka | but the machine will keep generally chugging away even at 200, with significant delays |
| 17:05.05 | wethrin | Ch0Hag: You won't have to do your talk this Saturday |
| 17:05.08 | kjalil | ah, it's gone down to 1.0, 1.7, 1.7 now |
| 17:05.18 | antiphase | Sounds like you need a proper mail server ;) |
| 17:05.31 | Ch0Hag | Oh. (Good). Why? |
| 17:05.40 | wethrin | No meeting |
| 17:05.44 | kjalil | antiphase: which is? suggest a good spec please |
| 17:05.55 | wethrin | No room confirmation. Insufficient confirmation from speakers |
| 17:05.56 | antiphase | How much mail to you handle? |
| 17:06.06 | antiphase | Bit difficult to say otherwise ;) |
| 17:06.29 | kjalil | antiphase: 20,000 or so spams every few days + a few legit mails |
| 17:06.36 | wethrin | Palm the virus scanning off to a cluster of dedicated virus scanners |
| 17:06.50 | antiphase | Aye |
| 17:07.04 | antiphase | One with plenty of CPU power |
| 17:07.05 | kjalil | wethrin: i started up clamd, and clamav is not taking up almost any cpu at all! |
| 17:07.12 | kjalil | it's much better now |
| 17:07.19 | antiphase | Mail servers per se aren't particularly resource-hungry |
| 17:07.19 | wethrin | daemons++ |
| 17:07.27 | antiphase | clamd is absolute shit |
| 17:07.34 | kjalil | wethrin: hmm, i wonder if I can start up spamd as well? |
| 17:07.36 | antiphase | I gave up on it because it's such a pig |
| 17:07.45 | wethrin | Yes, you should run spamassassin through spamc/spamd |
| 17:07.55 | wethrin | I gave up on clamd because it kept dying |
| 17:07.59 | kjalil | antiphase: clamd here is working quite well, very low load |
| 17:08.10 | kjalil | antiphase: this is on osx server |
| 17:08.41 | Ch0Hag | Hmm. Well I'll sketch out a talk anyway. |
| 17:08.45 | antiphase | clamd leaks like a bitch and chews incredible amounts of CPU time for no obvious benefit in my limited experience. |
| 17:08.48 | Ch0Hag | So you'll have one whenever something's booked. |
| 17:08.55 | antiphase | Limited because I uninstalled it in disgust |
| 17:08.57 | wethrin | Nodnod - I'll give you a shout when something gets booked |
| 17:09.08 | wethrin | Assuming I can be arsed to do anything. No-one else seems to be. |
| 17:09.21 | kjalil | antiphase: ok, so can you now suggest a mail server spec + antivirus solution? |
| 17:10.04 | antiphase | I'm not saying anything as I don't have enough information to make a suggestion |
| 17:10.04 | tripitaka | kjalil: mrtg load graphing: http://pastebin.com/m4f89b85f |
| 17:10.53 | kjalil | antiphase: ok, what is missing. i already told you how many mails we handle every few days. the number of clients is about 10-15 only, not very high. it's the spam that is a lot |
| 17:13.41 | kjalil | ok i gotta go |
| 17:13.46 | kjalil | laters ... |
| 17:14.25 | antiphase | Ha |
| 17:14.53 | Ch0Hag | wethrin: Why is that? |
| 17:15.26 | wethrin | Ch0Hag: Well, at the moment I don't have the time to give to organising gllug things |
| 17:16.09 | Ch0Hag | Heh I think that's quite common. |
| 17:16.32 | wethrin | Specially not soon, when I shall be employed *and* have a th*s*s to write |
| 17:16.50 | Ch0Hag | I'll take the employ if you like. |
| 17:17.03 | wethrin | If you could do the Gllug organising.... :) |
| 17:17.03 | Ch0Hag | Give you time to concentrate on your studing. |
| 17:17.19 | wethrin | And over the last couple of years, people have offered to help, and then not actually done anything |
| 17:18.12 | Ch0Hag | There's a difference between offering to help and being in control. |
| 17:18.51 | Ch0Hag | I'll be able to help provided I'm given hints as to how. |
| 17:19.25 | wethrin | Pick a date. Get speakers. |
| 17:19.36 | wethrin | That's about it, really |
| 17:19.51 | Ch0Hag | Hmm. |
| 17:20.06 | Ch0Hag | I shall see about blackmailing people into that. |
| 17:20.17 | wethrin | And ideally have everything confirmed at least 2 weeks before the event, to give sufficient time to send out announcements |
| 17:20.34 | wethrin | And join the gllug admin mailing list |
| 17:21.00 | Ch0Hag | So you'd want to be planning now for March, really. |
| 17:21.05 | wethrin | Yes |
| 17:21.14 | wethrin | John Hearns said he'd waffle about clusters |
| 17:21.23 | wethrin | And someone offered to give a talk about cycling and the Eee PC |
| 17:21.37 | Ch0Hag | Well my first 'oh, but' to go with my offer of help - I'm getting maried in April and will be rather pre-occupied. |
| 17:21.51 | wethrin | Ah. Congrats, and all that :) |
| 17:22.31 | wethrin | The trouble with March is that Easter is very early this year |
| 17:22.45 | Ch0Hag | Yes. Hence my wedding date. |
| 17:23.30 | Ch0Hag | Easter Sunday is Warch 23. |
| 17:23.51 | wethrin | 1st March is the week after FOSDEM |
| 17:24.03 | wethrin | So that gives the 8th or the 15th |
| 17:24.16 | Ch0Hag | People might be too geeked-out on the 8th still. |
| 17:24.48 | wethrin | True. |
| 17:25.05 | Ch0Hag | gllug-admin-request@gllug.org.uk? |
| 17:25.06 | wethrin | However, I don't think z00dax was going to be around during that time to give a talk, so you'd have to find another speaker |
| 17:25.16 | wethrin | http://lists.gllug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllugadmin |
| 17:25.34 | z00dax | humm ? |
| 17:25.40 | wethrin | Ah, z00dax! |
| 17:25.44 | Ch0Hag | Bah! So close! |
| 17:25.49 | wethrin | Are you around on the 15th of March? |
| 17:26.18 | z00dax | 15th march is ok with me |
| 17:26.22 | wethrin | Ah, excellent |
| 17:26.28 | wethrin | Shall we have a meeting then? |
| 17:26.45 | wethrin | I should even be able to attend that one |
| 17:27.09 | z00dax | yeah that would be cool |
| 17:27.12 | Ch0Hag | Do talks have to be about computers at all? |
| 17:27.16 | z00dax | were we not going to also have a meeting in Jan ? |
| 17:27.16 | LeedsHK | 110 minutes on the phone to my mum... time to sleep now |
| 17:27.28 | wethrin | z00dax: This coming Saturday, but it's too late now |
| 17:27.31 | wethrin | g'night, LeedsHK |
| 17:28.00 | wethrin | Unless someone wants to have a purely social gllug meeting, just for a change |
| 17:28.04 | Ch0Hag | Because I just made a damn-fine stir fried pork and veg. |
| 17:28.13 | Ch0Hag | Albeit with a tad too much pepper. |
| 17:28.15 | wethrin | tasty |
| 17:28.19 | wethrin | No such thing! |
| 17:28.43 | wethrin | So.....we go with 15th of March? |
| 17:28.45 | Ch0Hag | No such thing as too much chilli, but I have pepper chunks left in the bowl. |
| 17:28.52 | wethrin | Ah |
| 17:28.54 | Ch0Hag | wethrin: Fine with me. |
| 17:28.55 | z00dax | wethrin: fine with me |
| 17:30.09 | wethrin | Excellent! |
| 17:30.13 | wethrin | You're both in, then |
| 17:30.22 | wethrin | Don't forget |
| 17:30.32 | Ch0Hag | Damn. |
| 17:30.37 | Ch0Hag | And thds day was going so well. |
| 17:30.39 | Ch0Hag | this |
| 17:31.00 | wethrin | Muaha |
| 17:31.20 | Ch0Hag | Actually it wasn't. Nobody's replied to any of my job applications. |
| 17:31.40 | z00dax | wethrin: ack |
| 17:31.50 | z00dax | humm job, yes - i need something to do as well, 1 day/wk |
| 17:32.07 | wethrin | I shall email you towards the end of February just to remind you |
| 17:32.14 | z00dax | coolio |
| 17:32.22 | z00dax | fosdem ? |
| 17:32.40 | Ch0Hag | Wise. |
| 17:33.01 | wethrin | I will be at Fosdem |
| 17:33.03 | wethrin | Will you? |
| 17:33.49 | Ch0Hag | Not if I don't get any work. |
| 17:34.21 | z00dax | i will be at Fosdem too |
| 17:34.25 | wethrin | hurrah |
| 17:34.28 | z00dax | need to book the Friday off from work |
| 17:34.37 | wethrin | Ch0Hag: Did you apply to the one that got posted to Gllug? |
| 17:34.58 | wethrin | Okay. I've mailed Charlotte Barnes (cycling on Eee PC) and John Hearns (clusters) |
| 17:35.04 | Ch0Hag | No. Pay is too low. |
| 17:35.07 | wethrin | ah |
| 17:35.23 | z00dax | Ch0Hag: is it sysadmin stuff you are looking for ? |
| 17:35.29 | Ch0Hag | Da. |
| 17:35.43 | z00dax | from what i hear, lots of hosting companies are looking for capable linux sysadmins, working from $anywhere in the world |
| 17:35.55 | Ch0Hag | Do you know of anywhere? |
| 17:35.57 | z00dax | although, yes - hosting companies != much money |
| 17:36.15 | Ch0Hag | z00dax: I applied to Rackspace last time they advertised. I didn't hear back and now they're advertising again. |
| 17:36.38 | z00dax | Ch0Hag: i shall keep the eyes and ears open |
| 17:36.44 | Ch0Hag | I'm debating whether to go for it again. |
| 17:36.48 | wethrin | May as well |
| 17:37.05 | z00dax | i know that mediatemple were looking for a few people in Dec, not sure if they still are |
| 17:37.49 | Ch0Hag | Now this is odd. Someone sent me an email earlier with details to connect to their server, which my greylister bounced. |
| 17:38.20 | Ch0Hag | I phoned them up a little later and they sent it again, so now I've logged on to the server, but exchange has an empty queue. |
| 17:38.36 | Ch0Hag | Well I say odd, it's about par for the course but it's very dumb. |
| 17:39.42 | Ch0Hag | I wonder if it has such advanced functionality as a log file... |
| 18:00.48 | wethrin | Aha. Charlotte's said she can talk then |
| 18:01.17 | wethrin | So that's about 2.5 speakers confirmed |
| 18:03.24 | Ch0Hag | Are women only .5 of a person? |
| 18:03.37 | wethrin | No, she's giving a shorter talk |
| 18:03.47 | Ch0Hag | Right. |
| 18:08.34 | Ch0Hag | This OS X installer has said "about a minute" to go for the past 10 minutes. |
| 18:09.26 | wethrin | it tends to do that |
| 18:09.50 | Ch0Hag | I thought doing most of the work at 99% was Microsoft's game? |
| 18:11.02 | z00dax | are 128bit ssl certs even worth getting these days ? |
| 18:11.06 | Ch0Hag | Naturally it won't let me open a terminal to see if it's actually doing anything. |
| 18:14.25 | wethrin | Probably not... |
| 18:15.11 | antiphase | I don't think the technology for factorising large primes is up to 128-bit stuff within a normal lifetime |
| 18:15.44 | wethrin | hometime! |
| 18:16.10 | Ch0Hag | ACK! |
| 18:16.38 | Ch0Hag | Damn Applet and their fucking unquittable 'Yes we can say welcome in a million languages' shit. |
| 18:16.45 | Ch0Hag | I was ENJOYING a nice piece of Beethoven. |
| 18:16.50 | Ch0Hag | heh - Applet |
| 18:16.55 | Ch0Hag | I think I'll keep that one in. |
| 18:18.47 | Ch0Hag | And if I'm in the UK and have a British keyboard, my timezone is probably *not* Cupertino. |
| 18:28.42 | *** join/#gllug secretlondon (i=secretlo@wikipedia/secretlondon) |
| 18:28.44 | secretlondon | hi |
| 18:42.36 | *** join/#gllug Discordian (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 18:48.56 | Ch0Hag | Oops. I appear to have forgotten the passphrase for my home-brewed CA. |
| 18:50.04 | Discordian | Oh dear |
| 18:57.50 | Discordian | though the easy-rsa thingy that comes with openvpn is good too |
| 19:00.18 | Ch0Hag | None of it helps remember your key though. |
| 19:00.24 | Ch0Hag | And if it does, it probably shouldn't. |
| 19:01.01 | Discordian | This is true |
| 19:01.33 | Discordian | Write it down and lock it in safe |
| 19:05.10 | z00dax | Discordian: but then you might forget the lock combination to the safe |
| 19:05.23 | wethrin | Or lose the key |
| 19:05.28 | Discordian | Well |
| 19:06.00 | Discordian | i've never forgotten my root password |
| 19:06.07 | Discordian | or my ssh keyphrase |
| 19:08.29 | Ch0Hag | Yeah but you *use* them. |
| 19:08.56 | Discordian | true |
| 19:16.22 | *** join/#gllug poeloq (n=poeloq@77-99-188-44.cable.ubr01.hari.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 19:35.49 | *** join/#gllug kjalil (n=kjalil@host86-136-71-110.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:37.24 | *** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild) |
| 19:55.06 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=peter@dsl82-163-112-79.as15444.net) |
| 21:13.38 | secretlondon | hell no chat since 1908 |
| 21:16.04 | Discordian | But yes tis quiet |
| 21:18.33 | z00dax | a 100 years of no chat ? |
| 21:19.03 | Discordian | I raed that as 19:08 |
| 21:19.12 | Discordian | s/raed/read/ |
| 21:20.38 | wethrin | 100 years is a long time on IRC |
| 21:21.07 | Discordian | Aye |
| 21:21.31 | Discordian | I've done 14 years |
| 21:21.44 | Discordian | and that's a life sentnce |
| 21:21.48 | Discordian | sentence |
| 21:32.25 | Discordian | Tis very quiet |
| 21:35.48 | secretlondon | I suspect everyone is either logged in out of habit or having a great time on a more lively channel |
| 21:36.00 | Discordian | Maybe |
| 21:48.42 | secretlondon | Apparently it's 23 deg C in california atm |
| 21:48.51 | secretlondon | my friend's hayfever has started.. |
| 21:48.53 | wethrin | That's warmer than my room |
| 21:49.03 | Discordian | It's 9C here |
| 21:49.06 | secretlondon | that's warmer than a lot of july.. |
| 21:49.19 | Discordian | and that's indoors |
| 21:49.39 | wethrin | Yes, but global warmin^W^Wclimate change made it go cold last July |
| 21:49.57 | secretlondon | yeah but I think 20s is still aerage isn't it? |
| 21:50.08 | wethrin | Probably |
| 22:20.22 | secretlondon | I need to find somehting to stick on my laptop. It's got to play nicely with the Huawei E270 modem, and pref not be Ubuntu as I fancy a change |
| 22:20.52 | secretlondon | I think it'll have to be a linux as *bsd support for the modem seems sparse |
| 22:21.22 | Discordian | Fedora |
| 22:21.53 | secretlondon | I should probably google for the modem and linux and see what the hits are |
| 22:22.17 | Discordian | Aye |
| 22:23.15 | Discordian | I've not used modems in a decade |
| 22:27.48 | secretlondon | well it's an hsdpa usb thing for "3g broadband" |
| 22:28.32 | Discordian | Heh |
| 22:42.22 | secretlondon | it looks pretty much like a modern linux of my choice |
| 22:43.17 | wethrin | Slackware! |
| 22:43.22 | secretlondon | gentoo! |
| 22:43.26 | secretlondon | eek |
| 22:43.48 | wethrin | Ahhh....then your modem driver will be OPTIMISED!!! to not waste CPU cycles! |
| 22:43.51 | Discordian | Oh gawd |
| 22:44.14 | wethrin | And you can assure yourself you can an extra couple of bits per second! |
| 22:44.22 | Discordian | I've admine gentoo boxes |
| 22:44.29 | secretlondon | after you've spent 3 weeks compiling it |
| 22:44.43 | Discordian | It wasn't fun |
| 22:45.21 | Discordian | and not my choice |
| 22:50.37 | secretlondon | which has the best docs? |
| 22:50.53 | secretlondon | I'm gonna pine for the openbsd man pages if it doesn't Just Work |
| 22:51.32 | Discordian | If OpenBSD works |
| 22:51.38 | secretlondon | it doesn't |
| 22:51.40 | wethrin | you might have to work out how to use info *shudder* |
| 22:51.42 | secretlondon | not with the modem |
| 22:51.48 | Discordian | why change |
| 22:51.52 | Discordian | okay |
| 22:51.53 | secretlondon | but will info have the info |
| 22:52.04 | wethrin | Apart from how to drive info :) |
| 22:52.11 | wethrin | Or it'll refer you to the wiki |
| 22:52.27 | secretlondon | man pages ftw |
| 22:52.33 | wethrin | So users can document what hoops they had to jump through to get things to the work, and developers can be lazy and not write documentation |
| 22:52.34 | Discordian | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:52.37 | wethrin | </rant> |
| 23:03.29 | secretlondon | bah which distro |
| 23:04.32 | secretlondon | not bloody mandriva |
| 23:05.16 | wethrin | Slackware. |
| 23:06.10 | secretlondon | seriously? |
| 23:07.33 | wethrin | Well, I've only got Debian on my fileservers currently because a) it was to hand, and b) it did the RAID setup during install |
| 23:09.05 | wethrin | No idea what the next fileserver's going to be. Although ZFS onto 6TB of storage does rather appeal |
| 23:09.32 | secretlondon | you should prob update hades at I'm not sure openbsd 3.9 is still supported |
| 23:09.47 | wethrin | It's not |
| 23:09.55 | wethrin | I don't think 4.0 is supported either |
| 23:10.07 | *** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@jamesmorse.plus.com) |
| 23:10.09 | wethrin | But I will not do anything until I get a serial console installed and running |
| 23:13.23 | secretlondon | slackware seems to have very few packages |
| 23:14.08 | wethrin | look at slapt-get - that'll point you to various repositories. And make it have a pretence at having a packaging system |
| 23:31.35 | secretlondon | arrgh my kitchen sink is totally blocked |
| 23:32.01 | Discordian | oh dear |
| 23:32.06 | Discordian | why |
| 23:32.47 | secretlondon | looks like it was a result of the coconut fudge I made. cocnutoil is solid at room temp - i think some got in the sink whilst liquid |
| 23:33.18 | Discordian | I usually prod the sink with screwdrivers |
| 23:34.31 | wethrin | NaOH IYF |
| 23:34.42 | secretlondon | yeah |
| 23:34.51 | secretlondon | boiling water hasn't had much effect |
| 23:35.17 | secretlondon | I note I've got au-bend but blurrgh to opening it all |
| 23:35.47 | Discordian | Most people dom't have NaOH |
| 23:36.05 | secretlondon | i don't - and dn't even know where i'd get it from |
| 23:36.27 | secretlondon | old school chem lab ;) |
| 23:36.47 | wethrin | Um. Drain unblocker |
| 23:36.56 | wethrin | Standard off-the-shelf B&Q |
| 23:38.28 | Discordian | Which are close right now |
| 23:38.37 | hali | http://www.gamebase64.com/game.php?id=16833&d=45&h=0 |
| 23:38.41 | Discordian | closed |
| 23:38.54 | wethrin | 24h Tesco, then |
| 23:39.27 | wethrin | Some places might even sell NaOH crystals - I think there's some in our garage from Homebase |
| 23:40.36 | Discordian | I doubt in this day and age |
| 23:40.51 | Discordian | You can just buy NaOH |
| 23:41.18 | wethrin | Well, buy some drain unblocker. It'll help if you run some very hot water through the pipes first |
| 23:41.41 | Discordian | heh |
| 23:42.07 | secretlondon | I've found some plughole unblocker - naoh and na hypochlorite |
| 23:42.15 | secretlondon | stuck down the hole.. |
| 23:43.16 | secretlondon | hali: weird.. |
| 23:43.21 | wethrin | Hot water will make it much more effective |
| 23:43.32 | wethrin | Specially if it softens up the oil |
| 23:43.33 | secretlondon | it got boiling water first |
| 23:43.51 | wethrin | Good good |
| 23:44.02 | secretlondon | and it started flowing again, i've added the noxious chemicals to make sure.. |
| 23:44.26 | wethrin | Leave it overnight, and then flush it through in the morning |
| 23:44.40 | secretlondon | thjey say 30 mins, I may leave longer tho |
| 23:45.01 | wethrin | Overnight is normally best |
| 23:45.29 | secretlondon | unless it releases cl or something I can't see the prob with leaving it longer |
| 23:45.56 | wethrin | Not unless it's got something to react with, like ammonia |
| 23:46.15 | wethrin | And if you just leave the window open, you'll be fine |
| 23:46.15 | secretlondon | it's just got random shite |
| 23:47.46 | wethrin | If you're particularly worried, then close the door and open the window |
| 23:48.03 | secretlondon | I'm not really, it's not as if I sleep near the kitchen |
| 23:48.10 | wethrin | Right :) |
| 23:48.23 | Discordian | I had to dissamble my sink once |
| 23:48.33 | secretlondon | I worried I may to do that to my toilet |
| 23:48.38 | Discordian | It wasn't fun |
| 23:48.40 | secretlondon | it's not flushing properly |
| 23:48.57 | wethrin | Not flushing, or drainig? |
| 23:49.08 | secretlondon | well turds are staying for several flushes |
| 23:49.17 | secretlondon | apols for the tmi |
| 23:49.45 | wethrin | So insufficient water flow |
| 23:50.08 | secretlondon | it could be, I guess that if it was blocked the water level would rise |
| 23:50.14 | wethrin | yes |
| 23:51.37 | wethrin | If it is, dump vinegar in the cistern |
| 23:51.47 | Discordian | My sewer |
| 23:52.15 | Discordian | got blocked by a dead rat once |
| 23:52.49 | Discordian | Cost me 200 quid |
| 23:52.58 | secretlondon | eew |
| 23:53.45 | wethrin | Shouldn't pest control have taken care of that? |
| 23:53.57 | secretlondon | depends whose pipe it is |
| 23:54.26 | secretlondon | also most council's don't have a pest control service for non council tenants |
| 23:54.45 | Discordian | Indeed |
| 23:54.51 | secretlondon | southwark pest control don't want to know about me as I have a housing association landlord |
| 23:54.54 | wethrin | Durham does |
| 23:54.59 | secretlondon | but thankfully they pay |
| 23:55.40 | Discordian | I have a house |
| 23:55.56 | Discordian | I wish I had a studio |
| 23:56.02 | secretlondon | if it's your pipe you are responsibile, it it's not then it's thames water (prob) |
| 23:56.12 | wethrin | Thames Water? Responsible? HA |
| 23:56.21 | secretlondon | in a legal sense |
| 23:58.29 | Discordian | But then hate living here |