| 00:14.56 | secretlondon | night |
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| 13:12.22 | secretlondon | hi |
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| 13:28.07 | AndyMillar | ho |
| 13:37.44 | etorix | During these times the following thresholds will be applied for upstream and downstream. |
| 13:37.45 | etorix | 10am - 3pm Download |
| 13:37.48 | etorix | Size L: 2400Mb |
| 13:38.03 | etorix | bassterds trialing a new stm thingie |
| 13:39.59 | etorix | and ive been avoiding the contention times |
| 13:40.56 | secretlondon | virgin? |
| 13:41.18 | etorix | yup |
| 13:41.33 | etorix | if i had a landline id move isp |
| 13:41.36 | secretlondon | vodafone blocked everything I ever use yesterday, I complained on their forum, and they sent me an email this morning saying that my post was offensive and had been removed |
| 13:41.39 | AndyMillar | hold on |
| 13:41.43 | secretlondon | doesn't have a landline either |
| 13:41.49 | AndyMillar | what the fuck? |
| 13:42.08 | AndyMillar | so, 6pm-8am has a 3GB limit (for XL) |
| 13:42.17 | AndyMillar | and now they're trying to enforce a 10am-3pm limit too? |
| 13:42.22 | etorix | http://abcde.co.uk/virginmedia/stm-trial-statement.txt |
| 13:42.32 | secretlondon | *and* you get phorm? |
| 13:42.52 | AndyMillar | This updated policy will be trialed within the following regions Preston, Wigan, Blackpool, Camden, Dalston, Enfield and Haringey. |
| 13:42.55 | AndyMillar | FUCK RIGHT OFF |
| 13:43.02 | secretlondon | adsl really is the only way of getting decent broadband, it's a shame BT have me over a barrel |
| 13:43.19 | Nafallo | naah |
| 13:43.20 | Nafallo | fibre |
| 13:43.31 | AndyMillar | ok |
| 13:43.35 | AndyMillar | i'm moving in 2 months |
| 13:43.42 | AndyMillar | and i'm not getting shit-virgin again |
| 13:43.42 | antiphase | Get a leased line, it's only a few hundred quid per megabit per month |
| 13:43.54 | AndyMillar | antiphase: that would be worth it |
| 13:44.08 | AndyMillar | :p |
| 13:44.27 | AndyMillar | i download ~100GB/month over my virgin line |
| 13:44.34 | antiphase | Funnily enough, the bandwidth costs the same whether it arrives over a dedicatd circuit or DSL |
| 13:44.39 | antiphase | or cable for that metter |
| 13:44.44 | AndyMillar | yeah |
| 13:44.54 | AndyMillar | don't BT charge adsl ISPs close to £300/mbit |
| 13:45.07 | antiphase | Yes, hence contention ratios |
| 13:45.17 | AndyMillar | my home 95%ile is 0.62mbit |
| 13:45.32 | AndyMillar | which i'd say isn't too bad |
| 13:45.42 | secretlondon | if you download 100gb/month I'm not surprised virgin hate you |
| 13:46.19 | AndyMillar | i download 60-100GB per month |
| 13:46.24 | AndyMillar | and upload 20-50GBB |
| 13:46.32 | AndyMillar | and I don't use bittorrent |
| 13:46.34 | secretlondon | has a 3gb limit |
| 13:46.59 | AndyMillar | i wonder if i can cancel my contract early based on mis-selling |
| 13:47.02 | antiphase | All this traffic shaping nonsense is just ISPs trying to keep their products both reasonably functional and viable in the face of exponential increases in bandwidth demand from people who aren't prepared to pay what it costs to provide |
| 13:47.19 | AndyMillar | i was sold an "unlimited" usage line |
| 13:47.26 | AndyMillar | antiphase: it's the ISP's fault :) |
| 13:47.31 | antiphase | Eventually the costs will have to be passed on, as nore users start to do stuff like streaming video |
| 13:47.52 | AndyMillar | aye |
| 13:48.05 | AndyMillar | i think ISPs should price their products more sensibly |
| 13:48.13 | AndyMillar | and also, that BT should stop being shit |
| 13:48.22 | secretlondon | there was a kid complaining on another channel yesterday that commcast is interfering with his p2p. he downloads 2 dvds a day |
| 13:48.35 | AndyMillar | as transit for the ISP when they get to their POP is under £15/mbit |
| 13:48.42 | AndyMillar | whereas it's £300/mbit just to get to their POP |
| 13:49.05 | AndyMillar | </anger> |
| 13:50.06 | antiphase | Transit is typically high-speed and point-to-point though; BT run a low-bandwidth network to millions of different households. It's fairly clear that the overhead will be the same, but the cost per megabit will be wildly different... |
| 13:50.40 | antiphase | Oh well, whatever. I just download stuff at work |
| 13:50.42 | AndyMillar | heh |
| 13:52.48 | AndyMillar | i think BT should be told to stop being shit |
| 13:52.55 | AndyMillar | and charge "reasonable" amounts for their transit |
| 13:53.03 | AndyMillar | monopoly ftl |
| 13:53.32 | AndyMillar | leased lines don't seem *that* expensive |
| 13:54.16 | AndyMillar | hell, 2mbit SDSL is only £80/month (5:1 contention) |
| 13:55.01 | antiphase | You haven't donethe maths again :P |
| 13:55.19 | AndyMillar | antiphase: in what way? |
| 13:55.48 | antiphase | Well, that's 200 quid a month per committed megabit |
| 13:56.21 | AndyMillar | lemme check the contention |
| 13:56.30 | AndyMillar | oh |
| 13:56.30 | AndyMillar | i lied |
| 13:56.32 | AndyMillar | 20:1 :p |
| 13:56.38 | AndyMillar | 5:1 is 155/month |
| 13:56.50 | AndyMillar | 1:1 is £299 |
| 13:57.30 | AndyMillar | that sounds reasonable pricing |
| 13:58.11 | antiphase | Certainly cheaper than a dedicated circuit, because you're using existing (probably shared) hardware and cabling |
| 13:58.17 | AndyMillar | aye |
| 13:58.24 | AndyMillar | how much would a dedicated circuit cost you? |
| 13:59.07 | antiphase | Dunno, I'm not in the ISP game any more, and I never had anything much to do with the sales tossers |
| 13:59.12 | AndyMillar | heh |
| 13:59.18 | AndyMillar | my experience kinda stops at SDSL :( |
| 13:59.30 | antiphase | I wouldn't expect much change from 10k for a 2Mb line for a year |
| 13:59.33 | AndyMillar | but £85/month for 2mbit SDSL isn't too bad |
| 14:00.02 | AndyMillar | so ~£400/mbit/month |
| 14:00.39 | antiphase | Most of that cost is for the wiring as well, so it gets cheaper the more you buy. I'd guess you should expect to be paying 1/4 million for 100Mb |
| 14:00.51 | antiphase | Most of which is then bandwidth at resale price |
| 14:01.10 | AndyMillar | that's still £200/mbit |
| 14:01.39 | antiphase | Maybe it got cheaper. Bandwidth in small doses is still distressingly expensive though I should think |
| 14:01.51 | antiphase | If you buy a few Gb you can get good prices |
| 14:02.03 | AndyMillar | true |
| 14:02.18 | AndyMillar | LES looks kinda cool |
| 14:02.54 | AndyMillar | but is probably insanely expensive |
| 14:03.33 | Nafallo | waits for the dark-fibre-to-datacenter-quote |
| 14:03.34 | antiphase | If you get one from your office, say, to your data centre where bandwidth is cheaper, it's not too bad. I've no idea how much BT would want for the bandwidth if you didn't hand it off yourself |
| 14:04.07 | AndyMillar | antiphase: that was what i was thinking |
| 14:04.11 | antiphase | So if you have oodles of capacity elsewhere, I guess it's quite effective. I worked for an ISP that did just that |
| 14:04.32 | antiphase | 100Mb LS to the office, terminated in the Docklands |
| 14:04.34 | AndyMillar | colo a cisco 2811 and get LES to that |
| 14:04.55 | AndyMillar | antiphase: i don't suppose you have any idea of the costs for that do you? :-p |
| 14:05.18 | antiphase | I don't, I'm afraid |
| 14:05.38 | AndyMillar | as the internet is shit for that sort of pricing |
| 14:06.10 | AndyMillar | Although initial charges can be high, they may be amortised by ISP's/ carriers. However, on-going charges are much lower than 2 Mbps or multiple 2 Mbps lines. |
| 14:06.15 | AndyMillar | that's telling me nothing :D |
| 14:13.31 | AndyMillar | i really hate marketing companies that say "don't put prices online" |
| 14:16.22 | antiphase | B2B stuff is still sold person-to-person, rather than the flat-rate consumer stuff for people that mostly don't understand what they want or will get |
| 14:16.32 | AndyMillar | yeah |
| 14:16.37 | antiphase | You might have to pick up the phone :/ |
| 14:16.40 | AndyMillar | heh |
| 14:16.42 | AndyMillar | i don't mind that :) |
| 14:18.10 | AndyMillar | but guide pricing is useful |
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| 15:28.45 | z00dax | AndyMillar: do you have a budget ? if so, thats a good guide price |
| 15:28.56 | z00dax | shop around to see whats the best deal youget within that guide price |
| 15:30.35 | AndyMillar | z00dax: i'm just interested really :) |
| 15:35.46 | kjalil | hmm, I need some ideas on what the best method is to update dynamic php pages on a website? Should the website be taken down for 10 mins or so while the updates are performed? |
| 15:49.21 | antiphase | Ask your sysadmin ;) |
| 15:52.49 | AndyMillar | kjalil: depends on the load of the site :) |
| 15:53.51 | AndyMillar | mmh, what do people think of the Samsung i780 ? |
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| 15:55.12 | kjalil | antiphase: I am the sysadmin (sort of). are there any best practices for doing this sort of thing? |
| 15:56.11 | z00dax | kjalil: it really does depend a lot on the application and the size and the type of change you are making |
| 15:56.47 | z00dax | lets assume you have something like a few dozen code files behind the website, and a database |
| 15:57.12 | z00dax | I would normally, have a svn checkout that sits on the machine somewhere, a place i can run tests against it - and a place i can 'make live' from |
| 15:57.24 | z00dax | making live might be just a case of pointing a symlink to the new checkout |
| 15:57.39 | z00dax | or it might be actually moving code into the older live root |
| 15:57.51 | kjalil | z00dax: hi |
| 15:58.04 | z00dax | things get a bit more complex when db schema needs to change at the same time |
| 15:58.20 | AndyMillar | how important i 0 downtime on this site? |
| 15:58.22 | AndyMillar | is* |
| 15:58.25 | kjalil | z00dax: yes, let's say 20 pages need to be changed on a live website. the website is not *too* busy, but the load may increase in the future. |
| 15:58.26 | z00dax | in that case you prolly need to time the various operations and work out what a failover / fall back strategy is ging to be |
| 15:58.42 | z00dax | and once you start getting serious about this - I'd really recommend something like python's fabric |
| 15:59.06 | z00dax | i am not sure if php has a rollout / release mechanism like that |
| 15:59.13 | kjalil | z00dax: it is simple apache + php + mysql website atm |
| 15:59.15 | z00dax | RoR / Ruby has capistrano |
| 15:59.26 | AndyMillar | i'd personally, stop the site, backup (make sure this is correct!), then deploy the new site/schema; then bring it online and test carefully |
| 15:59.41 | kjalil | z00dax: hmm, yes the db might need schema changes... |
| 16:00.04 | kjalil | z00dax: what about users who might be making credit card transactions at that time? or users with sessions? |
| 16:00.21 | z00dax | why would you loose sessions ? |
| 16:00.54 | antiphase | This is one of those questions that you know how to answer, or don't need to know how to answer |
| 16:01.22 | AndyMillar | how many is that likley to be? |
| 16:01.25 | z00dax | antiphase: :D very true |
| 16:02.47 | hali | hm, we simply take one webserver at a time out of the load balancer farm... upgrade it / test and putit back in the farm |
| 16:02.53 | hali | at least for code changes |
| 16:02.57 | hali | db changes are worse |
| 16:03.11 | kjalil | antiphase: i'm trying to *find* the answer then. maybe some pointers to read some stuff online? |
| 16:03.14 | hali | often done in oracle workspaces then we just merge the workspaces to main |
| 16:03.45 | AndyMillar | hali: that assumes you have that many servers to play with ;) |
| 16:03.56 | hali | AndyMillar: and expensive load balancers |
| 16:03.59 | z00dax | db change rollback delta calculation and implementation is even more fun! |
| 16:04.06 | hali | i can't understand why good load balancers cost so much |
| 16:04.20 | kjalil | hali: so the schema changes on the fly? |
| 16:04.36 | antiphase | kjalil: What I meant by the previous flippant statement was that either your site is huge, and downtime has massive implications, which also implies that you have people that can support that already; or that you are over-optimising what should be a simple operation as zoodax outlined for a smaller site |
| 16:04.47 | hali | kjalil: depends on how big the change is and if it breaks backwards compatability with the existing code... there is always xmas eve for downtime :) |
| 16:05.21 | antiphase | Do it at midnight and don't worry about the users would be the usual method |
| 16:05.35 | kjalil | antiphase: ok, true, I understand your statement now... yes, it's not a very big site, and this may be a storm in a teacup, I was just wondering... |
| 16:06.19 | antiphase | It's good that you're thinking about it because many people wouldn't, just don't worry too much I'd suggest |
| 16:06.53 | hali | we do schema upgrades via the DR site when we really really have to do it "now" ... |
| 16:07.00 | kjalil | antiphase: we probably will shut it down for a while I guess and try to change things quickly enough |
| 16:07.21 | hali | which still usually means 1-2 secs downtime and some lost sessions |
| 16:08.05 | kjalil | hali: yes, exactly. maybe we will have to display a message saying "We will be doing regular maintenance, etc..." |
| 16:09.43 | hali | yes, it's often better to do that than to just sneak it in and users end up with problems |
| 16:11.30 | z00dax | humm.. fuse plugin to get at S3 data... |
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| 16:32.43 | Nafallo | grumbles |
| 16:34.14 | AndyMillar | sup? |
| 16:34.38 | Nafallo | my traffic went another way then I thought it would |
| 16:34.55 | hali | bgp hickups? |
| 16:35.19 | Nafallo | naah. probably by design TBH. :-) |
| 16:35.36 | Nafallo | just wasn't aware which path was lowest :-P |
| 16:36.18 | Nafallo | bgp agrees :-) |
| 16:36.38 | Nafallo | so well... things. |
| 16:36.53 | antiphase | You're supposed to grumble when it doesn't do that and your packets disappear into the black hole |
| 16:37.13 | Nafallo | this was because I brought the neis up in another order :-D |
| 16:39.35 | Nafallo | oh well... at least I got the place I was downloading from to bump the graph ;-) |
| 16:39.38 | Nafallo | http://ubuntu.datahop.it/ |
| 16:41.16 | AndyMillar | heh |
| 16:41.30 | AndyMillar | datahop+ |
| 16:41.32 | AndyMillar | datahop++ |
| 16:41.34 | AndyMillar | even |
| 16:41.41 | Nafallo | yes :-) |
| 16:41.43 | Nafallo | good ones. |
| 16:42.02 | Nafallo | that graph will flatline a gig next Thursday :-) |
| 16:42.14 | AndyMillar | heh |
| 16:42.43 | hali | AndyMillar: is datahop any good? i discarded them because they where too cheap |
| 16:42.59 | Nafallo | hali: Datahop is good :-) |
| 16:43.09 | AndyMillar | hali: their transit is "good enough" :) |
| 16:43.13 | AndyMillar | i've not noticed any problems with it |
| 16:43.22 | hali | hm, perhaps as a third feed :) |
| 16:43.29 | Nafallo | I've worked for them so... ;-) |
| 16:43.36 | Nafallo | I should know it's good |
| 16:43.36 | AndyMillar | Nafallo: you have? :o |
| 16:43.52 | Nafallo | AndyMillar: yes. reason I moved to London in the first place :-) |
| 16:44.09 | AndyMillar | heh |
| 16:44.25 | AndyMillar | know Dan Goscomb? |
| 16:44.31 | Nafallo | yes. |
| 16:44.34 | AndyMillar | :) |
| 16:44.56 | hali | can't remember if it was isp transit or leased lines we looked at from datahop |
| 16:45.10 | hali | probably leased lines between redbus and inx |
| 16:45.20 | AndyMillar | dc interconnect |
| 16:45.29 | Nafallo | yea. interconnect :-) |
| 16:45.38 | AndyMillar | who else does it? |
| 16:45.38 | Nafallo | two ports and a VLAN ;-) |
| 16:45.46 | AndyMillar | Nafallo: indeed :) |
| 16:45.49 | Nafallo | AndyMillar: C4L :-P |
| 16:46.02 | AndyMillar | Nafallo: do they do it themselves or use datahop? |
| 16:46.03 | Nafallo | they are crap though :-) |
| 16:46.09 | hali | packet exchange |
| 16:46.13 | Nafallo | AndyMillar: both :-P |
| 16:46.25 | AndyMillar | :p |
| 16:46.27 | Nafallo | hali: that sounds way to close to IX ;-) |
| 16:46.40 | hali | yes, they are around the corner |
| 16:46.46 | AndyMillar | hali: we've never had a problem with datahop |
| 16:46.51 | AndyMillar | (that I know of) |
| 16:46.55 | hali | AndyMillar: good, i'll keep that in mind next time |
| 16:46.57 | Nafallo | hali: Internet Exchange, not INX :-P |
| 16:47.08 | hali | ah |
| 16:47.19 | hali | may be looking at a DR site later this year |
| 16:47.21 | AndyMillar | hali: and yes, they are insanely cheap :) |
| 16:47.28 | AndyMillar | hali: what sites are you in already? |
| 16:48.33 | hali | AndyMillar: level3 goswell road, redbus sov/hex and inx ... and a box in bluesquare and a box in easynet (yay) |
| 16:48.52 | AndyMillar | ah :) |
| 16:48.59 | AndyMillar | you should move the dr stuff to bsq ;) |
| 16:49.21 | hali | that is probably one of two options |
| 16:49.26 | hali | colt wapping as the scond |
| 16:49.26 | AndyMillar | what's the other one? |
| 16:49.29 | AndyMillar | ah |
| 16:49.37 | AndyMillar | not heard of it |
| 16:49.51 | AndyMillar | iphouse is another option |
| 16:49.57 | AndyMillar | but i'm not going to be very praising of it |
| 16:50.12 | Nafallo | does not like IPH |
| 16:50.26 | hali | we have so much connectivity through colt and they keep trying to sell us rackspace at a fairly good price ... |
| 16:50.45 | z00dax | hali: a contact with someone at colt would be apreciated :D |
| 16:50.48 | AndyMillar | Nafallo: why not? ;) it's such a good facility </sarcasm> |
| 16:50.58 | AndyMillar | hali: what sort fo good price? |
| 16:51.00 | AndyMillar | of* |
| 16:51.03 | z00dax | is hunting for rack providers who have > 8amp / rack at reasonable rices |
| 16:51.06 | hali | z00dax: im going for drinks with colt on monday, you are welcome to join us :) |
| 16:51.08 | Nafallo | AndyMillar: because of the rest :-P |
| 16:51.08 | z00dax | s/rices/prices/ |
| 16:51.31 | AndyMillar | Nafallo: you hear about the latest fun there where the air-con failed? :p |
| 16:51.47 | Nafallo | AndyMillar: again!? when was this? |
| 16:51.53 | hali | AndyMillar: hm, can't remember... 1200 or so for a 20 amp rack i think .. including 10mbit transit if i remember |
| 16:51.55 | AndyMillar | couple of months ago maybe :/ |
| 16:51.59 | hali | probably less actually |
| 16:52.06 | Nafallo | AndyMillar: that wasn't the latest then :-P |
| 16:52.10 | AndyMillar | we got there *before* the iphouse techs :p |
| 16:52.27 | AndyMillar | and we were coming from central london :) |
| 16:52.34 | Nafallo | AndyMillar: my box got killed and changed DC... |
| 16:52.42 | hali | hm, was the goscomb hosting thingie at all related to that dan goscomb guy? |
| 16:52.42 | AndyMillar | racks burning to touch etc :) |
| 16:52.48 | AndyMillar | hali: yes :) |
| 16:52.50 | AndyMillar | it's his company |
| 16:52.51 | hali | ah |
| 16:52.56 | Nafallo | hehe |
| 16:53.04 | z00dax | I am still off sick hali :( |
| 16:53.05 | hali | they got bought by rapidswitch right? |
| 16:53.11 | AndyMillar | not that I know of |
| 16:53.19 | AndyMillar | black cat networks got bought by rapidsiwtch |
| 16:53.20 | hali | must be thinking of someone else, blackcatz prossiblity |
| 16:53.23 | Nafallo | I would be surprised.... |
| 16:53.28 | hali | adds spelling |
| 16:53.34 | AndyMillar | isn't sure of the spelling either ;) |
| 16:53.39 | Nafallo | I'm pretty sure Dan wouldn't sell... |
| 16:53.44 | AndyMillar | ayway, they got bought by RS |
| 16:53.55 | AndyMillar | and fucked off a load of customers by moving everyone to bluesquare |
| 16:54.16 | hali | and ditching ipv6 |
| 16:54.20 | Nafallo | I have a box ordered for TH next ;-) |
| 16:54.59 | AndyMillar | mmh |
| 16:55.07 | AndyMillar | i'm currently with RS |
| 16:55.18 | AndyMillar | mainly because central london colo is stupidly expensive :( |
| 16:55.47 | AndyMillar | (any of you offer central London colo? :-p that isn't going to rape me sideways :p) |
| 16:55.52 | hali | there was some new'ish company just outside the m25 now... hmm.. i got some spam from them.. offering 15kW racks! |
| 16:56.06 | z00dax | hali: you *must* remember those guys :D |
| 16:56.10 | AndyMillar | what's that in real numbers? |
| 16:56.17 | z00dax | was it that setup who have a barge parked up near stratford somewhere |
| 16:56.21 | AndyMillar | where by real numbers I mean amps |
| 16:56.42 | hali | said something like they are about to finish building space for 200 3kW racks and 50 15kW racks |
| 16:56.47 | z00dax | AndyMillar: I have often said that there are enough people in this channel who need / want colo - no reason why we should not lease a rack and share |
| 16:56.58 | AndyMillar | z00dax: so true |
| 16:57.09 | z00dax | that cant be a barge, way too many racks to fit in there |
| 16:57.16 | hali | it looked serious, the spammer used to work for bluesquare and must have stolen his client list when he changed company |
| 16:57.17 | Nafallo | hmm. I could use a couple of Us ;-) |
| 16:57.17 | AndyMillar | could be a very big barge :p |
| 16:57.42 | hali | they have a sales office in the gerkin |
| 16:57.42 | AndyMillar | the problem is, it's expensive to get rackspace :( |
| 16:57.44 | hali | googles |
| 16:57.54 | Nafallo | like... 4.5Us. then I could put better stuff in SOV :-P |
| 16:58.18 | AndyMillar | all I need is 1U, 0.6A, 2 network ports and 16 IPs :-p |
| 16:58.21 | z00dax | the VSNL facility in stratford has some hairy stories attached to it - but I've got a couple of machines in there with coreix, and its been quite ok |
| 16:58.40 | z00dax | havent had a network blip or power issues or cooling so far, ( been about 8 months ) |
| 16:58.53 | z00dax | AndyMillar: and b/w ? |
| 16:59.16 | AndyMillar | heh, i can scale to use anything from 1mbit to 100mbit - depending on what I put on the box ;) |
| 16:59.29 | antiphase | 16 addresses is just greedy for 1 machine |
| 16:59.38 | AndyMillar | antiphase: VMs |
| 17:00.08 | hali | you can still NAT the ports required for services if you want to isolate them |
| 17:00.27 | AndyMillar | not all my VMs :) |
| 17:00.40 | hali | on the other hand, if you use all the ipv4 space then the adoptation of ipv4 will quicker :) |
| 17:00.44 | hali | which is good |
| 17:00.47 | AndyMillar | ipv6* |
| 17:00.50 | AndyMillar | z00dax: you say they're ok? |
| 17:00.51 | hali | ack |
| 17:01.30 | AndyMillar | as i've used coreix before and they were awesome |
| 17:01.32 | Nafallo | /exec -o ip addr ls | grep eth | grep inet | wc -l |
| 17:01.36 | Nafallo | 10 |
| 17:01.43 | AndyMillar | heh |
| 17:02.04 | Nafallo | that box has no VMs though :-P |
| 17:02.10 | AndyMillar | now that is greedy :p |
| 17:02.12 | hali | all 192.168 i hope :) |
| 17:02.24 | Nafallo | hali: one ;-) |
| 17:02.30 | Nafallo | the rest is PI :-P |
| 17:02.40 | hali | we've almost moved to a 100% nat'd setup |
| 17:03.02 | hali | but different with hosting of course |
| 17:03.11 | AndyMillar | hali: if I could, I would |
| 17:03.28 | AndyMillar | z00dax: what's coreix's view on IRC? |
| 17:05.36 | AndyMillar | checks his 95%ile |
| 17:07.37 | AndyMillar | z00dax: do you know how far the facility is from the underground station |
| 17:09.00 | AndyMillar | as they look alright |
| 17:10.06 | z00dax | close enough to walk over with 2 netra's one under each arm :D |
| 17:10.57 | z00dax | I've recommend them in that I have zero problem in getting a full 100mbps from the machines inside their network to ntt in the US and singnet in Singapore |
| 17:10.58 | AndyMillar | and they allow IRC? ;) |
| 17:11.36 | z00dax | so they have decent connections, and i've not had a single power or cooling issue in the time that the machines have been in there |
| 17:11.43 | z00dax | how can i check for irc ? |
| 17:11.49 | z00dax | i know i can get onto irc from a machine there... |
| 17:11.56 | AndyMillar | their tos/aup don't mention it |
| 17:11.57 | AndyMillar | :) |
| 17:12.08 | Nafallo | z00dax: they don't have Datahop ports though ;-) |
| 17:12.30 | AndyMillar | mmh, their price is reasonable |
| 17:12.37 | AndyMillar | and it beats fucking off to maidenhead :) |
| 17:12.50 | AndyMillar | their bandwidht is a little low, but i can cope there :) |
| 17:13.40 | z00dax | Nafallo: dont know, they have super connectivity into redbus though |
| 17:13.54 | z00dax | i know someone who has a gigabit private vlan between his machines at coreix and redbus |
| 17:14.02 | z00dax | rbsov that is |
| 17:14.29 | Nafallo | oh well... next box is telehouse anyway ;-) |
| 17:14.32 | z00dax | AndyMillar: drop me an email at my nickname @centos.org, and I can forward you some contact details for people there ( the ones that I deal with ) |
| 17:14.32 | Nafallo | we'll see after that |
| 17:15.01 | AndyMillar | z00dax: emailing now - ty :D |
| 17:16.35 | AndyMillar | i live about 2 mins from Dalston Kingsland mainline station |
| 17:16.44 | AndyMillar | which is about 15 mins from stratford :) |
| 17:18.49 | Nafallo | lives about 15 minutes from Telehouse Docklands ;-) |
| 17:19.03 | AndyMillar | :p |
| 17:19.33 | Nafallo | want to get that down to 2 minutes though... |
| 17:19.36 | AndyMillar | mmh |
| 17:20.13 | z00dax | i cant afford to live in that area |
| 17:20.15 | AndyMillar | their 1/4 rack offering is tempting :o |
| 17:20.23 | z00dax | lives out in the sticks, as hali calls it |
| 17:20.34 | AndyMillar | z00dax: where abouts? |
| 17:20.48 | z00dax | DA1 |
| 17:20.51 | AndyMillar | ah, what about if I need access to my server? |
| 17:21.04 | AndyMillar | is there a build room you can use etc? |
| 17:21.15 | z00dax | yeah |
| 17:21.22 | z00dax | the guys in the DC are quite nice |
| 17:21.26 | AndyMillar | :) |
| 17:21.49 | z00dax | and unlike the morons you meet at RedBus, the guys here tend to actually be fairly technical too |
| 17:21.52 | AndyMillar | as i'll be putting in a box I intend to upgrade |
| 17:21.55 | AndyMillar | LOL |
| 17:22.00 | AndyMillar | redbus remote hands.. |
| 17:22.09 | AndyMillar | we send them *pictures* of the racks |
| 17:22.18 | AndyMillar | saying reboot *this* one |
| 17:22.22 | AndyMillar | and they get it wrong :) |
| 17:22.39 | Nafallo | hmmm... shower |
| 17:23.02 | AndyMillar | z00dax: what about contract length? |
| 17:23.07 | AndyMillar | 1 month rolling, or 12 month? |
| 17:23.29 | z00dax | i dont think there is a contract, i never looked. but since you pay for the setup, i'd doubt there is one |
| 17:23.36 | AndyMillar | yeah :) |
| 17:23.49 | AndyMillar | mmh, apart from the bandwidth being low |
| 17:24.16 | AndyMillar | i could live with there :p |
| 17:25.41 | AndyMillar | z00dax: need 4 people to go in on their 1/4 rack offer :p |
| 17:26.09 | hali | whats the cost? |
| 17:26.21 | hali | i was looking for a server for my own irc needs :) |
| 17:26.25 | AndyMillar | £350+VAT/month |
| 17:26.25 | hali | but could colocate i guess |
| 17:26.26 | AndyMillar | for 11U |
| 17:26.34 | hali | hm, fairly pricey then |
| 17:26.45 | AndyMillar | colo is :( |
| 17:26.52 | hali | dedicated is not |
| 17:27.13 | AndyMillar | with dedicated, location is not improtant though :( |
| 17:27.59 | AndyMillar | bah |
| 17:28.00 | AndyMillar | "IRC servers or bots connected to public IRC networks or servers." |
| 17:28.01 | AndyMillar | :( |
| 17:30.56 | z00dax | why do you want to run a bot ? |
| 17:32.48 | AndyMillar | client and/or server :) |
| 17:34.55 | AndyMillar | meh - i should not meddle :p |
| 17:35.01 | z00dax | hali: get a vm at gandi |
| 17:35.02 | AndyMillar | coreix will do :) |
| 17:37.12 | hali | was considering hetzner |
| 17:37.29 | hali | they offer 8 ip's so i can help with the ipv6 transition |
| 17:37.46 | AndyMillar | .za ? |
| 17:38.00 | z00dax | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:38.27 | z00dax | sixxs.net! |
| 17:38.39 | hali | ovh ftw |
| 17:38.43 | z00dax | you can get as many ip's as you like, a few thousand too |
| 17:38.55 | z00dax | hali: been smoking something wierd today ? ovh ? |
| 17:39.15 | hali | it's ace... all you need is a celeron with 256megs |
| 17:39.23 | z00dax | thats there |
| 17:39.26 | antiphase | I've got a hetzner box and a /48 from sixxs and it's been lovely |
| 17:39.40 | hali | yes, sounds like an alright plan |
| 17:39.49 | antiphase | Hetzner actively filter 6667/tcp in and out though if that's a problem |
| 17:40.20 | z00dax | a /48 ... that should keep you going for a while AndyMillar |
| 17:40.33 | AndyMillar | z00dax: indeed :p |
| 17:41.10 | hali | assigns an ip to each hair on his head |
| 17:41.18 | z00dax | and you could use that route to get onto freenode - they have a ipv6 interface |
| 17:41.20 | z00dax | as does google |
| 17:41.40 | AndyMillar | tbh, i may as well just go with coreix |
| 17:41.53 | AndyMillar | mainly because it is "easy to use" |
| 17:41.59 | AndyMillar | s/use/get to/ |
| 17:42.08 | hali | and f*ck.. someone forgot to order a cisco asa failover cable for me |
| 17:42.17 | hali | oh well, means i don't have to do as much work tonight |
| 17:42.23 | AndyMillar | looks at ibor |
| 17:42.27 | AndyMillar | s/ibor/ibot/ |
| 17:43.24 | z00dax | antiphase: whats your pop for the sixxs link ? |
| 17:43.34 | z00dax | ( at hetzner ) |
| 17:44.25 | antiphase | Easynet Hamburg by the look of it |
| 17:44.45 | antiphase | I think I requested that on the grounds of locality, and it was accepted |
| 18:00.22 | AndyMillar | jump.net.uk sound cool |
| 18:01.57 | antiphase | Ask cpufreak about them, I think he knows the people |
| 18:02.11 | AndyMillar | cpufreak: tell me about jump.net.uk! :-p |
| 18:09.39 | AndyMillar | as basically it sounds like a group of people who just have a rack and sell colo for "fun" |
| 18:11.05 | AndyMillar | and they're in THN |
| 18:19.35 | Nafallo | JUMP is good from what I've heard. |
| 18:29.29 | AndyMillar | is -> <- close to getting a 1/4 rack :/ |
| 18:30.12 | AndyMillar | £400/month for 11U and 10MBit transit :/ |
| 18:30.38 | antiphase | Power is more important than space these days |
| 18:30.57 | antiphase | Presumably you get 2A or something shit |
| 18:31.45 | AndyMillar | i'd have to find out |
| 18:33.58 | *** join/#gllug catalyst` (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild) |
| 18:38.29 | AndyMillar | mmh, i wonder how dirty it would be to riun zebra |
| 18:39.20 | antiphase | quagga is what you want if it's BGP you want, and it's not particularly dirty |
| 18:39.37 | AndyMillar | any idea what sort of system resources it eats? |
| 18:39.43 | AndyMillar | for ~1-2mbit |
| 18:39.54 | antiphase | None at all |
| 18:39.55 | AndyMillar | and ~2 peers |
| 18:39.57 | AndyMillar | bah |
| 18:40.09 | AndyMillar | google doesn't appear to know either :( |
| 18:40.34 | antiphase | The BGP bit is obviously very lightweight, Linux as a router can handle very large numbers of packets if you have a decent NIC |
| 18:40.52 | AndyMillar | aye |
| 18:40.54 | antiphase | People have squeezed almost 1Mpps out of it doing trivial routing |
| 18:41.27 | AndyMillar | I was debating using a little mini-itx type thing - which might be puthing it on the level of "low specification" |
| 18:41.59 | antiphase | I'm not sure about using it with a large routing table, but for 2 defaults it'll be fine. Otherwise you can buy one of the lower-end Cisco layer 3 switches that do BGP these days |
| 18:42.46 | antiphase | There's little point in having diverse connectivity if it's all connected to some crappy PC though |
| 18:42.56 | AndyMillar | reducing connectivity cost |
| 18:43.24 | AndyMillar | by taking partial transit / peers |
| 18:44.16 | antiphase | Sounds a bit hopeful, unless you have some friendly people you already exchange a lot of traffic with |
| 18:44.52 | AndyMillar | partial transit it 2.50/mbit :) |
| 18:44.53 | antiphase | Unless you're pushing a lorra lorra traffic, buying full transit is probably the only realistic option |
| 18:45.16 | antiphase | Do they tell you which bits of the Internet can't see you when you buy that? |
| 18:45.29 | AndyMillar | 50% visibility ish |
| 18:45.55 | AndyMillar | oh |
| 18:45.55 | AndyMillar | no |
| 18:46.00 | AndyMillar | i lie, 28% |
| 18:46.15 | AndyMillar | which is basically UK and "some" europe |
| 18:47.29 | antiphase | It sounds like there's potential use for it in reducing the cost of transatlantic traffic, but these days I find that unlikely |
| 18:47.56 | antiphase | I mean purchasing reducing the cost from your other provider of course |
| 18:47.58 | AndyMillar | well, if I were do do a lot of UK stuff, it'd make sense, maybe |
| 18:48.02 | antiphase | Didn't make much sense the way it came out |
| 18:48.26 | AndyMillar | tbh, i should just colo this box somewhere and forget about it :p |
| 18:48.33 | AndyMillar | and jump seems like a good place for that |
| 18:49.01 | AndyMillar | or c4l maybe |
| 18:49.09 | antiphase | If you do that much, it would almost be worth paying the few grand a year to join LINX and peering with most of Europe and the UK for free. ISTR that Jump only use LoNAP because of some petty disagreement on their part, but I could be wrong |
| 18:49.54 | AndyMillar | i don't do that much really :( |
| 18:50.01 | AndyMillar | well, i've pushed up to 40-50mbit |
| 18:50.38 | AndyMillar | which isn't bad for lil old me |
| 18:50.38 | Nafallo | did 60MB/s last Ubuntu release in just torrents |
| 18:51.02 | antiphase | It's not bad, but having to run your own routers makes it very questionable |
| 18:51.17 | AndyMillar | i don't have to - it's just be more fun |
| 18:53.19 | antiphase | I'll remember that if you ever grumble about having to get up at 3am to recover a broken network :P |
| 18:53.43 | AndyMillar | heh |
| 18:53.50 | AndyMillar | it's only ever my personal stuff I play around with :-p |
| 19:33.35 | hali | . |
| 19:33.53 | AndyMillar | .. |
| 19:36.17 | Nafallo | ... |
| 19:36.45 | AndyMillar | .... |
| 19:36.47 | hali | no that would be ../. |
| 19:36.49 | hali | and ../.. |
| 19:36.55 | AndyMillar | heh |
| 19:37.12 | AndyMillar | i wonder what sort of hack you could do to allow you to cd to a binary application |
| 19:37.17 | AndyMillar | and ls to see functions :p |
| 19:37.48 | AndyMillar | at least then . would make sense |
| 19:45.03 | *** join/#gllug catalyst`` (n=catalyst@jamesmorse.plus.com) |
| 20:53.14 | *** join/#gllug aguaithefreak (n=aguaithe@123.50.47.249) |
| 21:14.33 | cpufreak | AndyMillar: still awake? |
| 21:32.25 | *** join/#gllug mobyslayer (n=norm@91.84.181.230) |
| 21:38.04 | *** part/#gllug mobyslayer (n=norm@91.84.181.230) |
| 22:40.25 | AndyMillar | cpufreak: indeed |
| 22:41.28 | AndyMillar | i'm not lucky enough to be in bed :( |