| 00:20.19 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n218103207064.netvigator.com) |
| 02:45.11 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@awork006078.netvigator.com) |
| 04:45.21 | *** join/#gllug catalyst` (n=catalyst@jamesmorse.plus.com) |
| 04:48.46 | *** join/#gllug catalyst` (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild) |
| 04:50.32 | *** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild) |
| 06:59.28 | zaarg | good morning |
| 07:11.19 | mindbendr | morning |
| 07:33.43 | kjs | Morning |
| 07:58.09 | *** join/#gllug huw-l (n=huw@w1199.insrv.cf.ac.uk) |
| 08:07.41 | *** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 08:09.56 | DiscordianUK | Morning |
| 08:10.37 | mindbendr | morning |
| 08:21.16 | *** join/#gllug Blapto (n=martin@62.189.100.228) |
| 08:35.36 | mindbendr | if i'd know ms platforms with hundreds vacancis are so demanded, I'd stick to ms |
| 08:38.06 | kjs | mindbendr: ? |
| 08:38.30 | Blapto | mindbendr: are you web 2.0? |
| 08:39.49 | mindbendr | kjs: i'm checking the vacancies, it's all about MS |
| 08:39.59 | mindbendr | Blapto: low exposure to web2.0 |
| 08:40.15 | Blapto | It has stolen one of your vowels :( |
| 08:40.30 | Blapto | Look at cwjobs, plenty of nix there |
| 08:40.56 | mindbendr | Blapto: it's all about agencies, i hate them :) |
| 08:41.12 | Blapto | Mmm, they can be handy though if you're smart about it. |
| 08:41.14 | mindbendr | Blapto: and not easy to find a short-terim contract |
| 08:41.22 | Blapto | What's short term? |
| 08:41.23 | Blapto | 3 months? |
| 08:41.25 | mindbendr | *term |
| 08:41.26 | mindbendr | yep |
| 08:41.46 | kjs | looks to be loads of nix contracts last time I looked. |
| 08:42.03 | mindbendr | kjs: most of them are fake to get you into the database |
| 08:42.29 | kjs | Really? |
| 08:42.40 | mindbendr | kjs: yeah absolutely. |
| 08:42.48 | mindbendr | kjs: I become an expert about it |
| 08:42.53 | Blapto | You're being paranoid ;) |
| 08:43.00 | Blapto | I got tons of phone interviews last time |
| 08:43.08 | Blapto | Ended up in a permanent role though |
| 08:43.22 | mindbendr | Blapto: no seriously, they just write general linux keywords without any job description and they are the same agencies all the way, most of them total recruitment group. |
| 08:44.39 | mindbendr | Blapto: last friday, one of them called, I ended up 30 mins on the phone with her and there was no job description/vacancy. |
| 08:45.06 | Blapto | Hmm |
| 08:45.09 | Blapto | Might be time of year |
| 08:45.10 | mindbendr | She even mentioned that her sister is going to go to turkey for holiday which she wants to join |
| 08:45.25 | Blapto | Did she invite you? |
| 08:45.28 | mindbendr | nah |
| 08:45.29 | mindbendr | :D |
| 08:46.58 | mindbendr | I downloaded some mcse documents to find out about active directory/domain things, it looks so easy I wonder i there something I miss. |
| 08:47.05 | mindbendr | *is ther |
| 08:47.37 | Leeds | yes - it doesn't actually work reliably in the real world |
| 08:47.53 | mindbendr | Leeds: so what happens? reboot? |
| 08:47.57 | Blapto | I think it does actually |
| 08:48.03 | Blapto | If you set up AD correctly, it's godly. |
| 08:48.31 | mindbendr | is there anything to set up correctly? it was all about user policies etc click,next,click |
| 08:48.34 | Blapto | Just Linux admins don't tend to be good at setting up AD correctly. |
| 08:48.42 | Leeds | get crap like the main server going out of sync with the backup and no way to get them back into sync without reconfiguring |
| 08:48.51 | Blapto | Yes, you need a good DNS infrastructure, good FRS, good links, etc. |
| 08:48.51 | Leeds | in my real, but somewhat limited, experience |
| 08:48.57 | Leeds | FRS? |
| 08:49.02 | Blapto | File Replication Service |
| 08:49.31 | Blapto | http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/technologies/storage/dfs/tshootfrs.mspx that's your servers going out of sync. |
| 08:49.41 | Leeds | yeah, I don't need to go there any more |
| 08:49.48 | Blapto | But if you say main and backup, then you must be talking about a Server 2000 domain |
| 08:49.48 | Leeds | fortunately, I lost that job :-) |
| 08:49.52 | mindbendr | lol |
| 08:49.57 | Blapto | There's no such thing as that in 2003+ |
| 08:50.05 | Blapto | All DCs are Masters |
| 08:50.20 | mindbendr | I am not really keen about installing an 2003 server for learning purposes, it feels rubbish |
| 08:50.26 | Blapto | But yeah, if you set up AD without setting up DNS properly, things will mysteriously fail, and that's where most linux admins fuck up. |
| 08:50.48 | Blapto | It's fairly simple to do on the job, just make sure you get a good server admin book and follow the recipies. |
| 08:50.56 | mindbendr | it's strange, linux admins suppose to set up dns properly by nature i think |
| 08:51.10 | Blapto | They tend to forget about SRV records :) |
| 08:53.12 | Leeds | unfortunately, my boss had setup the DNS - or resetup, after we had to reinstall the servers completely before going into production |
| 08:53.27 | Leeds | I'm perfectly capable of setting up DNS |
| 08:54.13 | mindbendr | do you know what's the deal with veritas storage management comparing to LVM/GFS |
| 08:54.52 | mindbendr | I was checking the documentation of VERITAS last week, I didn't see any difference practically |
| 08:55.03 | mindbendr | and no reason to pay for the license |
| 08:57.19 | Blapto | Never played with it. |
| 09:00.25 | Leeds | not particularly interested in Veritas, wasn't particularly interested when they offered me a job :-) |
| 09:00.58 | mindbendr | it seems it's demanded |
| 09:03.46 | Blapto | to be honest, most employers will be ecstatic if you hit 50% of the "must have"s |
| 09:04.38 | mindbendr | yeah I've a %90 but no job, how's that |
| 09:04.44 | mindbendr | :D |
| 09:05.12 | Blapto | Just spam your CV out there. |
| 09:05.15 | Blapto | Throw enough shit... ;) |
| 09:05.41 | mindbendr | ppl say that it's not a good idea, |
| 09:06.00 | mindbendr | causes conflicts between agencies/employers |
| 09:06.10 | Blapto | I've not found that personally |
| 09:06.57 | mindbendr | prepares himself for bar jobs |
| 09:25.48 | *** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild) |
| 09:32.55 | kjs | yes MS servers are hell. |
| 09:36.22 | kjs | Blapto: did you mention you had an LPI ? |
| 09:36.46 | Blapto | No, that's wethrin. |
| 09:36.50 | Blapto | I just mentioned it existed |
| 09:37.16 | wethrin | I have an LPI Level 1. Because it cost me approximately bugger-all, so I thought, why not |
| 09:37.41 | Leeds | and is it in any way useful? |
| 09:38.25 | kjs | wethrin: did you study for that or just rock up and take the exam. |
| 09:39.03 | Leeds | wethrin: can I have your babies? |
| 09:44.34 | wethrin | Leeds: It's not helped me get a job yet |
| 09:44.39 | wethrin | kjs: Rocked up and took the exam |
| 09:44.55 | wethrin | Leeds: But you're welcome to any babies I might find |
| 09:45.21 | Leeds | not quite the meaning of that phrase I was looking for... |
| 09:46.03 | wethrin | I know :) |
| 10:01.49 | kjs | wethrin: you pass easy? |
| 10:02.19 | kjs | most jobs iv looked at dont even ask for certs. |
| 10:02.31 | kjs | which is good imo. |
| 10:03.37 | kjs | http://youtube.com/watch?v=h7V0-ekGuRc haha wtf cisco ? |
| 10:05.49 | wethrin | kjs: Yes |
| 10:05.52 | *** join/#gllug curson (n=curzon@79-68-26-161.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 10:06.15 | wethrin | There's a few certs that are worth it - the Cisco ones (CCNA) |
| 10:06.28 | wethrin | The RedHat ones aren't bad if you want a job dealing with RedHat systems |
| 10:06.35 | kjs | exam is 100 quid i think, |
| 10:07.05 | kjs | ah the ccna, i did that but its out of date. should probably retake it. |
| 10:07.20 | wethrin | Which exam? LPI? |
| 10:07.26 | kjs | CCNA |
| 10:07.28 | wethrin | Ah |
| 10:07.48 | kjs | i have a book for the lpi as well.. |
| 10:07.48 | wethrin | heh |
| 10:07.55 | wethrin | The later levels might be more interesting |
| 10:07.55 | kjs | are those + exams worth doing |
| 10:08.04 | wethrin | The A+ things? |
| 10:08.06 | wethrin | Probably not |
| 10:08.08 | kjs | yeah |
| 10:08.17 | kjs | A+ Network+ etc |
| 10:08.31 | wethrin | Frankly, if a company doesn't want to employ you without one of those certs, they're not worth working for |
| 10:08.40 | kjs | for sure. |
| 10:08.48 | wethrin | Assuming, of course, you have some other demonstrable track record |
| 10:09.11 | kjs | I have experiance, but i dont have a degree. |
| 10:09.46 | wethrin | A degree isn't necessary for sysadmin, really |
| 10:09.52 | kjs | so I was thinking about doing a couple more well known certs to back me up in that respect, however it is probably not needed... |
| 10:10.22 | wethrin | All a degree would usefully teach you to do, is how to learn (or at least, how to look things up really quickly in an index) |
| 10:10.35 | jpds | wish he had the money for a cert. |
| 10:11.09 | kjs | wethrin: haha |
| 10:11.29 | wethrin | Well, there may be a few handy electronics tips.... :) |
| 10:12.35 | wethrin | jpds: The ones that are worth doing cost real money |
| 10:13.08 | wethrin | recalls when he did the LPI 101, he got 100% on the 'command-line tools' section, and only about 67% on the 'X Window' section |
| 10:13.12 | wethrin | What does this say about me? |
| 10:13.38 | jpds | wethrin: I think I'd settle for a LPI. |
| 10:14.42 | wethrin | They're often much cheaper if you go to a conference, and take the exams there |
| 10:18.40 | zaarg | the redhat thing is meant to be better |
| 10:18.50 | zaarg | but very redhat specific of course |
| 10:19.10 | wethrin | Of course |
| 10:27.07 | kjs | well the RHCE is practical. |
| 10:27.57 | Blapto | A bloke here has one or two of the modules |
| 10:28.08 | mindbendr | kjs: in the vacancies they don't mention LPI |
| 10:28.13 | Blapto | I think that all he really got out of it was a branded flask |
| 10:31.49 | z00dax | looks in |
| 10:31.55 | z00dax | wethrin: hey, howse it going |
| 10:32.15 | wethrin | z00dax: Busy - spent the weekend moving house |
| 10:32.29 | z00dax | nicer place ? |
| 10:32.42 | z00dax | was a good weekend to be doing stuff too |
| 10:33.13 | Leeds | no company would ever sponsor their employees to do those certs, right? Because the only actual use for them is getting a job - somewhere else |
| 10:34.13 | Blapto | Leeds, they do. |
| 10:34.15 | wethrin | Well.....sometimes the certs are handy within a job. Such as the RHCE |
| 10:34.15 | Blapto | My company does |
| 10:34.30 | Leeds | wethrin: how so? |
| 10:35.03 | wethrin | Well, the RHCE is a practical exam. So you may learn something that you didn't know before |
| 10:35.13 | wethrin | Or find quicker ways of doing things |
| 10:35.34 | wethrin | If a company sponsors a cert, though, they normally expect the employee to stay at least a couple of years |
| 10:36.38 | z00dax | umm.... sponsored certs and 'bonds' are quite an interesting topic as well |
| 10:36.39 | Blapto | Sometimes they'll devalue the cert over a set period of time, and you pay back the residual |
| 10:38.52 | Blapto | But then again, often you can say at an interview "I've got a 4 week notice period, but if I leave in the next 3 months I need to give my employer £500" and they'll put it in your first cheque |
| 10:39.09 | z00dax | btw, I know a few companies that sponsored their people over to a RHCE so they could get with the 'distro way of things' when they moved from SLES to RHEL |
| 10:39.32 | Leeds | my point is that there's a difference between training and certification |
| 10:39.58 | mindbendr | Leeds: they do sponsor actually |
| 10:41.39 | mindbendr | the training is really expensive considering only the exam fee |
| 10:42.15 | mindbendr | I had a chance to meet several ppl in RHCE exam, |
| 10:42.45 | mindbendr | some of them told that they had got training in their company environment so they just attended to the exam, they failed the first stage though. |
| 10:43.45 | kjs | thinks he could pass it by just doing the exam. |
| 10:46.59 | z00dax | there is also the thing that if you are a consulting company, you need your people to have lots of certs to show the clients |
| 10:47.02 | z00dax | so they can give you more money |
| 10:50.14 | Leeds | that's a fair point, yes |
| 10:52.06 | Leeds | hometime, day off tomorrow :-D |
| 11:00.57 | *** join/#gllug axelS (n=axel@5ac9f2dd.bb.sky.com) |
| 11:09.37 | kjs | z00dax: that my situation... |
| 11:15.17 | zaarg | http://ployer.com/archives/2008/01/ihome2go_ih85.php |
| 11:15.19 | zaarg | awesome! |
| 11:16.08 | Blapto | haha |
| 11:28.13 | *** join/#gllug mindpixel (n=mindpixe@87-194-33-216.bethere.co.uk) |
| 11:59.37 | *** join/#gllug aguai_ (i=aguai@61-229-156-245.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 11:59.40 | *** join/#gllug stinDJ_IncT (n=marcus@87-194-124-8.bethere.co.uk) |
| 12:13.59 | kjs | z00dax: do you work for yourself? |
| 12:21.59 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 12:35.51 | Blapto | What do you call cheese that isn't yours? |
| 12:43.03 | dick_turpin | LugRadio to end http://www.jonobacon.org/ |
| 13:07.14 | jpds | dick_turpin: well, that's made me unhappy.. |
| 13:07.36 | Blapto | Nacho cheese! |
| 13:37.23 | *** join/#gllug Blapto1 (n=martin@205.132.170.33) |
| 13:37.52 | *** join/#gllug Blapto (n=martin@62.189.100.228) |
| 13:49.20 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n218103207064.netvigator.com) |
| 14:53.11 | *** join/#gllug boudiccas (n=boudicca@88-108-78-0.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 15:44.06 | *** part/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 15:58.28 | ChoHag | I don't like HP's ilo. |
| 15:58.41 | ChoHag | Give me lom from sun any day. |
| 16:01.37 | ChoHag | In other news - water powered car: http://ipower.ning.com/video/video/show?id=2057690:Video:106425 |
| 16:05.09 | *** join/#gllug hali (n=hampus@emma.dnsdrift.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:05.09 | *** join/#gllug flips_and_rails (n=stu@cv-kraken.cv.ic.ac.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:46.55 | *** join/#gllug aguai (i=aguai@61-229-154-117.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 16:51.57 | *** join/#gllug zaarg (n=jg@dubious.flightfromennui.com) |
| 16:52.08 | zaarg | http://waterfall2006.com/ |
| 17:02.46 | *** join/#gllug aguai_ (i=aguai@61-229-151-162.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 17:03.02 | *** join/#gllug AndyMillar (i=freenode@andymillar.co.uk) |
| 17:11.27 | *** part/#gllug aguai_ (i=aguai@61-229-151-162.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 17:28.57 | *** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 18:54.48 | *** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 20:13.42 | DiscordianUK | Tis quiet |
| 20:15.40 | AndyMillar | too quiet! |
| 20:15.45 | AndyMillar | watch out, it's a TRAP! |
| 20:16.17 | DiscordianUK | peut'etre |
| 20:32.38 | *** join/#gllug boudiccas (n=boudicca@88-108-78-0.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 20:40.46 | DiscordianUK | wb |
| 21:03.35 | *** join/#gllug Provito (n=Provito@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/Provito) |
| 22:06.20 | *** join/#gllug bilarh (n=henrik@bilar.co.uk) |
| 22:14.36 | kjs | yo |
| 22:17.43 | mindbendr | hey |
| 22:31.48 | *** join/#gllug Clive (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 22:53.10 | kjs | mindbendr: hows the job hunting going |
| 23:01.51 | mindbendr | kjs: terrible |
| 23:03.23 | *** join/#gllug aguai (i=aguai@61-229-147-23.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 23:11.53 | kjs | damn sorry to herar that |
| 23:11.55 | kjs | hear |
| 23:13.17 | mindbendr | it's normal, not easy to find a short-term thing i guess |
| 23:27.26 | antiphase | Depends if you have m4d skillz |
| 23:31.55 | mindbendr | i don't have mad skills :) |
| 23:39.27 | mindbendr | good night. |
| 23:58.48 | *** join/#gllug aguai_ (i=aguai@61-229-157-64.dynamic.hinet.net) |