IRC log for #gllug on 20080716

00:38.15DiscordianUKwyrd
00:38.46*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n219079209254.netvigator.com)
02:51.41*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@awork064158.netvigator.com)
08:19.56j0nrmorning
08:28.48AndyMillarmorsing!
08:31.34Leedsafternoon all
08:31.43zaargM0RN1NG
08:32.12LeedsN0T HERE, 1T 1SN'T!
08:32.45zaargd4Mn
08:33.05*** join/#gllug jpds (i=jpds@ubuntu/member/jpds)
09:36.03*** join/#gllug Blapto (n=martin@62.189.100.228)
09:37.15kjsMorning
09:40.49*** join/#gllug curson (n=curzon@79-69-76-19.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
09:54.03*** join/#gllug jpds (i=jpds@ubuntu/member/jpds)
10:12.37j0nrargh, i managed to login to server using vnc4server with xdmcp on a vnc session :1
10:12.53j0nrunfortunately i logged out (using the graphical logout button)
10:13.02BlaptoSilly boy.
10:13.07j0nrnow when i try and go back in i just get a grey screen with a black cross for a cursor?
10:13.35j0nri have tried killing the Xvnc process, the xinetd process, restarting xinetd...but everything just goes to the grey screen
10:13.39j0nrcan i fix this?
10:13.41j0nrremotely
10:13.42wethrinYes
10:13.46wethrinPossibly
10:13.59wethrinYou don't have a window manager running
10:14.22wethrinssh in, and "env DISPLAY=:1 fvwm &"
10:14.25wethrinmay do the trick
10:14.31j0nri thought logging in with the xdmcp thingy meant it was a seperate session (had the login window) then you could log out and back in as much as you wanted?
10:15.07j0nrenv: fvwm: No such file or directory
10:15.07j0nr[1] 9195
10:15.09j0nr[1]+  Exit 127                env DISPLAY=:1 fvwm
10:15.12wethrinbah
10:15.13wethrintwm ?
10:15.25wethrinMost X versions should have twm installed
10:15.29zaargxrdp seriously
10:15.46j0nri have no idea what your on about....replace fvwm with twm?
10:15.49zaargit's so much easier to configure 8-) not that's going to help in your immediate circumstances.
10:15.53wethrinyes
10:16.14j0nrsame error
10:16.30wethrinBah. You're probably using some modern hippie version of X, then
10:16.32antiphasewonders what's wrong with something like X forwarding over SSH to a VM
10:16.55wethrindoesn't have X on his servers
10:17.00wethrin(clients or servers)
10:17.01j0nrcan't install a xserver on this work machine, have to rely on a standalone viewer
10:17.11wethrinWhat, not even Cygwin X?
10:17.23j0nrif you have to install it, then no. got no admin rights
10:17.35antiphaseI'd be giving up about now
10:17.40wethrinI thought it's possible to install it without admin rights
10:17.43*** join/#gllug mindbendr (n=ege@80.68.37.133)
10:17.57mindbendrhi
10:17.58j0nrum...not sure
10:17.59wethrinWork should allow you to install the right tools for your job...
10:18.13j0nrheh, not really tools required for the job though
10:18.29wethrinAnyway. You're lacking a window manager
10:18.40j0nrwhy did it go?
10:18.50BlaptoYou killed it when you logged out
10:18.58j0nri thought with xdmcp it was like logging in a second time.
10:19.10j0nrbut why doesn;t it reload if i try and log in again?
10:20.32antiphaseYou should probably consider trying to get it working at home before you put the Internet in the way
10:20.41antiphaseas boring as that sounds
10:20.43*** join/#gllug etoshutl (n=etorix@unaffiliated/etorix)
10:21.14j0nryeah it was working...i just made the mistake of logging out
10:21.23j0nrso r u saying you can log in remotely, but never log out
10:21.55BlaptoJust close the VNC viewer
10:21.59BlaptoThat's more or less the point of VNC
10:22.04zaargsounds like you're not using xdmcp
10:22.18zaarglike you think?
10:22.37zaargwhen you first logged into the session were you presented with a login manager?
10:22.47zaargi mean a display manager like xdm or whatever
10:23.03antiphasethinks that XDMCP sounds like a protocol
10:24.07j0nrzaarg: yes, got the login manager
10:27.08zaargwait a min, what window manager were you using before then?
10:27.27j0nrwhat do you mean?
10:27.36zaargtry what wethrin said earlier, replacing fvwm with the window manager?
10:27.54j0nri'm confused... if i am at the computer logged in, thats session:0 right?
10:28.06j0nri thought the remote login enabled you to log into a second session:1
10:28.20j0nrso i thought i could logout of :1 and log back in at another date
10:28.30j0nr:0 remaining untouched
10:28.37j0nri am using xubuntu
10:28.50zaargyeah, that's perfectly possible.
10:28.56zaargyour setup is just broken. :)
10:29.13j0nrclearly :P
10:29.23j0nrbut what bit of it?
10:31.07zaargi have no idea. i have not been concerned with wroking that part out. i was just trying to help you retrieve your window manager.
10:31.09wethrinxubuntu
10:31.10wethrinHTH :)
10:37.34zaargi think most people just give in and live with ssh access.
10:39.35zaargactually i've yet to look into gui remote access for my mac
10:39.43zaargpresumably there's something that just works
10:40.56Leedsvnc?
10:42.26zaargpresumably tehre's something that just works and isn't insecure, butt slow, or neccessary to configure
10:43.52wethrinssh + X forwarding :)
10:45.33Leedsvnc?
10:49.32Leedszaarg: osx has a built-in vnc server - or it certainly used to
10:50.38zaargright
10:50.42zaargi haven't really investigated
10:51.08zaargmy entire experienec with os x has consisted of dropping things on the desktop and watching the ripple effect
10:51.15zaargor spamming F11 or whatever the expose key is
10:51.30Leedsyou know about the demo mode, right?
10:51.47zaargno?
10:52.03Leedshold down shift while you minimise a window
10:53.17zaargi shall do tonight
10:53.33Leedswell, I'm going home
10:55.22*** join/#gllug huw-l (n=huw@w1199.insrv.cf.ac.uk)
10:58.54*** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild)
11:04.20Blaptohehe
11:04.34BlaptoOld HP/Compaq NT Network Manager error message:
11:04.51BlaptoCould not resolve DHCP address on interface yadayada
11:04.51BlaptoYES          NO
11:05.10wethrinNO!
11:05.18kjsHum, best way to start some commands as a specific user on boot of a CentOS box? (for a license server).
11:05.28wethrinsudo
11:05.32wethrinNo
11:05.33wethrinsu
11:06.45wethrin'su user -c flexlm'
11:23.32mindbendrkjs: hows it going
11:25.10antiphasesudo -u command
11:25.16antiphasesudo -u user command
11:25.19antiphaseDuh
11:25.28antiphasesudo is the new black
11:25.30kjsnot to bad mindbendr, you got a job yet ?
11:25.38kjsantiphase: cheers man.
11:25.53mindbendrkjs: I did actually :)
11:25.57antiphaseYou'll need to delve into the fear and horror that is sudoers though
11:26.17kjswhere would i put script for it to be started at boot? (iv only done this on deb).
11:26.48antiphaseYou might as well just use su then like wethrin says, and stick it in /etc/rc.local
11:26.51kjsantiphase: iv already had to do sudoers on this box! (scary shit...)
11:29.06*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n219079209254.netvigator.com)
11:30.13kjsbice one mindbendr doing what?
11:30.15kjsnice*
11:30.27mindbendrkjs: migrating from one datacenter to another one
11:30.42mindbendrkjs: with virtualization, lvm etc
11:30.50mindbendrkjs: and backup units
11:31.00mindbendrkjs: they have got issues with backuping
11:31.18mindbendrand firewall
11:31.24mindbendrso far.
11:32.37kjsmindbendr:  sounds interesting, what are they using for backup ?
11:45.31mindbendrkjs: well there are LTO3 and LTO4 tape units with 24 and 48 slots
11:45.50mindbendrkjs: for the software side, I installed Zmanda but they want something easy to use
11:45.51Blaptodatacentre migration
11:45.52BlaptoAARRRGGHHH
11:46.04mindbendrkjs: so they are gonna spend loads of money on netvault it seems
11:47.09mindbendrBlapto: it's not bad if you use lvm
11:47.28Blaptomindbendr: depends what you're moving
11:47.30mindbendrI took a snapshot of the volume with `dd`
11:47.40mindbendrthey were shocked
11:47.41BlaptoAt some point we're going to be moving a few hundred servers.
11:47.43mindbendrlol
11:48.03mindbendrBlapto: yeah I'm lucky about it, got loads of VM
11:48.19kjsmindbendr: use Bacula.
11:48.34mindbendrthere is another linux guy here so I let him do the shitty job, by telling what he needs to do
11:48.43BlaptoHmm, I don't think you grasp the scale
11:48.53kjsI have setup bacula to backup virt servers etc with an LTO4 drive.
11:48.54mindbendrkjs: there's bacula being used I guess, but they're not happy with it
11:49.03kjswhy not?
11:49.11BlaptoIt's a datafloor, not two or three servers going from rack A to rack B.  A few hundred servers getting in a van and going to another datacentre
11:49.36mindbendrBlapto: i was explaining my situation :D we have got around 20+
11:49.53BlaptoThat's doable, I suppose
11:49.54antiphaseYou can't beat commercial backup software for actually doing what it's supposed to with the minimum of pissing about
11:49.55BlaptoBuying new kit?
11:50.31mindbendrantiphase: I'd go with amanda actually, but they want to hire a junior IT non linux guy then they want it to be easy to handle
11:50.39kjswhat about veritas
11:50.41kjs?
11:50.51kjs(dare i say it)
11:50.57antiphaseThe open source ones are all designed by people with a crack habit
11:51.05Blaptorsync!
11:51.12mindbendrI mean spending almost 7-8k pounds is not a solution  for me, I'd use amanda and buy hardware with that money
11:51.28antiphaseHow much is your data worth?
11:51.37mindbendrantiphase: more than that probably
11:51.39antiphase8k is a piss in the ocean
11:52.09mindbendrantiphase: true but I could solve a problem on opensource easier
11:52.11kjsahahaah
11:52.30mindbendrantiphase: it's not even amanda, It's zmanda so we have got enterprise support
11:52.46kjsah ok, thats not so bad then.
11:52.56mindbendrit's funny though, the commercial product took 5 mins to set up, amanda took 2 days
11:53.09antiphaseYou can't have much of a tape library if spending a few thousand quid upsets you
11:53.10kjswell yeah.
11:53.27mindbendrantiphase: it's not upsetting me, it's not my company I don't care
11:53.39antiphaseI believe it's known as "spoiling the ship for a ha'porth of tar"
11:53.53mindbendrantiphase: but this window-ish backup solution on linux so stupid that if something breaks, I can't even touch it
11:54.16kjsnetapps ftw?
11:55.20mindbendrnetapps what
11:56.32mindbendrlunchtime, bbl.
12:08.45*** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
13:09.57kjswonders what a CS:S server would run like on a xen VM...
13:10.57catalystregardless of where it's running, I still wouldn't be able to resist blinding my teammates from the off
13:12.29AndyMillarkjs: go cs 1.6
13:12.31AndyMillaras that's better
13:16.53kjsblah
13:16.57kjsi play source
13:17.13kjsiv not played 1.6 in years
13:17.26AndyMillarbut it's so much more awesome
13:17.34kjswhy
13:17.45AndyMillarwell, it cunts my gfx card less :)
13:18.01kjslol i have an 8800GTX
13:18.14kjsrun it on XP though.
13:18.28AndyMillari've only got an ati x1950 pro :(
13:18.51kjsnot sure what that is, but CS:S runs on my laptop
13:19.11kjsand it used to run on my old 9800pro
13:19.12AndyMillaryeah, but you don't get a billion fps
13:19.30kjsyou need wat 40fps.
13:26.14AndyMillarit feels laggy under 60 :(
13:27.44mindbendrlol
13:28.00mindbendri'd cry out of my eyes if i could see 60 on unrealtournament
13:32.32AndyMillaris one of those sad cunts that used to play >6 hours a day :(
13:33.04catalystused to play deathball that much
13:33.20catalystI had an x1950 pro
13:33.24catalystthen my motherboard died
13:34.27AndyMillar:(
13:34.30AndyMillarthey're not too bad
13:35.13*** join/#gllug Discordian (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk)
13:37.47DiscordianGood afternoon
13:57.33*** join/#gllug Discordian (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk)
14:03.09*** join/#gllug boudicca (n=boudicca@88-108-36-171.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
14:03.32dick_turpinboudiccas: How did the hair do go?
14:04.26boudiccadick_turpin; hair do?
14:04.46dick_turpinboudicca: Yeah last time we spoke you was off to the hairdressers
14:04.48boudiccadick_turpin; what do you mean please?
14:04.59boudiccaah right. now i understand
14:05.12dick_turpinboudicca: You pissed again?
14:05.26boudiccai've had my hair chpped from waist length to shoulder length and its far more manageable too
14:05.50boudiccano, you know me, i'm never pi**ed
14:06.45dick_turpinboudicca: ooh waste length hair dick_turpin is now unable to get up from the desk for 5 mins
14:07.16boudiccathats what it /was/ its now shoulder length :)
14:08.47dick_turpinboudicca: "Ooh your hair looks nice" phew after two marriages dick_turpin has learnt to notice quickly
14:09.00boudiccaty :)
14:36.16Blaptohttp://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950 which 2 words would you use to describe OpenBSD devs?
14:38.17AndyMillarepic fail
14:38.21AndyMillarreads article
14:39.07AndyMillaryes, I was right
14:39.39BlaptoI prefer Linus' "Masturbating monkeys"
14:40.48antiphaseLinus's if you please ;)
14:41.03antiphasegets pedantic on yo ass
14:42.48antiphaseHaving said that, it's always funny watching people whose native language isn't English arguing in English, because it just looks so crude
14:44.22zaarger Linus' is correct?
14:44.41antiphaseNot really
14:44.47zaargum...
14:44.49zaargyes it is?
14:45.13antiphaseOne tends to add 's to singular nouns (even proper ones) to indicate possession even when they end in s already
14:45.27zaargone does not
14:45.34zaargonly if only wants to look stupid
14:46.34antiphasehttp://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_apost.html
14:46.36catalystonly if one wi'she's to look 'stupid
14:46.39antiphaseInternet is always right
14:47.04catalystonly because the internet contains all views on every side of an argument
14:52.22BlaptoThat's American
14:52.27BlaptoThe BBC says you can do both
14:55.21BlaptoApparently the rules aren't fixed on this.  We're both right
14:55.24zaargi'm perfectly aware both are acceptable :)
14:55.32zaargi just fancied a fight
14:56.23cpufreakoutside, now.
14:56.30cpufreakI'll kick your fat ass outta here.
14:56.55BlaptoOver grammar?
14:57.03cpufreakI thought he said he wanted a fight.
14:59.33AndyMillarmmh, fight?
15:00.08zaargi always go by the oxford style manual
15:00.18zaargas long as you're consistent in your usage
15:00.50catalystwhy do you need to be consistent if others know what you mean?
15:01.13cpufreakyo mamma
15:01.41wethrinJust go with what Fowler says
15:02.16antiphasePauline Fowler?
15:02.27wethrinPff
15:03.41BlaptoFowler's says we used to do Linus' but now we should do Linus's, IIRC.  I'm stuck in the past :(
15:09.04zaargi've just always considered the additional s fugly
15:09.45antiphaseIt's consistent with the pronunciation though, which is probably why it's considered more correct now
15:09.58antiphaseNow that loads of foreigners need to speak English
15:12.53BlaptoBloody foreigners
15:16.40zaargso...semi-colons.
15:16.43zaargthey're fun huh?
15:16.46zaargruns away
15:17.52wethrinYes, yes they are ;)
15:29.55gregjprefix 017 is where ?
15:30.09antiphase-ENOTENOUGHDIGITS
15:30.19antiphase017xx will be somewhere
15:31.35gregj14333*
15:31.39gregjblah
15:31.42gregj17333
15:32.27antiphase01733 is Peterborough
15:32.49antiphaseAt least it was when I lived that way 10 years ago
15:33.05wethrinStill is
15:33.12wethrinhttp://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/phoneinfo/
15:33.14mindbendrwhat was the binary for generating a password on linux
15:33.20gregjlooks like those guys are LTSB collectors, nice
15:33.21mindbendrmakepasswd?
15:33.25zaargpwgen?
15:33.26gregjsince I don't have any cash for them
15:33.41wethrinLTSB?
15:33.50gregjlloyds tsb
15:34.03wethrinah
15:34.13gregjneeds to borrow 200 quid, for 1-2 months, any one able to ? priv me ;>
15:34.29wethrinponders the idea of a bunch of folks with a collection of banks in their back yard
15:34.36gregjlooks like I will have to go back to UK, and get some job there after all
15:36.01Blaptowethrin: have I met this David Cantrell?  The name rings a bell
15:36.31wethrinBlapto: Evil Dave
15:36.37wethrinHe has a beard
15:36.40BlaptoAh, right, yes
15:36.57zaargall daves do i find.
15:37.06wethrinI know some that don't have a beard
15:37.33zaarghow strange.
15:37.41mindbendr*expect* package, mkpasswd is the command.
15:51.30Leedsgregj: you did pay me back last time, right? :-)
15:53.09j0nryou know how mozilla can show you a graphical representation of a web page you are creating, i.e. so you can see where borders and divs and things are...is there an online equivilent of that that anyone knows of?
15:54.20Shevek31337j0nr, Even in my new-found 1337-ness, no.
15:55.00j0nrShevek31337: heh ok
16:00.06BlaptoThere's a 4 year old bug against apt-get
16:00.11Blaptoapt-get moo doesn't look much like a cow
16:00.32BlaptoThere's a patch attached :D
16:01.17Blaptohttp://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=271810
16:21.42AndyMillarheh
16:24.54BlaptoRic's making a patch now to add a fresian cow with udders
16:25.17boudiccasBlapto; what are you going to pump it up with?
16:26.00boudiccasfoot pump or bycycle pump?
16:26.08BlaptoFriesian even.
16:26.14BlaptoErrm, do you need to inflate cows?
16:26.53BlaptoASCII art is 2D and has no volume anyway
16:40.28*** join/#gllug DJ_InstincT (n=marcus@87-194-124-8.bethere.co.uk)
16:48.36DJ_InstincTanybody know
16:48.36DJ_InstincT--=20
16:49.07DJ_InstincTcan anybody help with this compile error [vsftpd-2.0.6]:
16:49.18DJ_InstincT: undefined reference to `EVP_sha256' ?
16:49.58DJ_InstincTit's on centos - I just updated openssl to latest version to try and get working to no avail
16:56.09*** part/#gllug huw-l (n=huw@w1199.insrv.cf.ac.uk)
16:59.45Shevek31337you need -lssl or somethign in your compile commandline
17:00.06Shevek31337You might be able to set something like LDFLAGS=-lssl bnefore you run configure, but check configure actually succeeded
17:06.15DJ_InstincTit doesn't seem to have a configure script I just edit builddefs.h and run make - I have added LDFLAGS=-lssl but same error, There are a couple of warnings:
17:06.15DJ_InstincTssl.c: In function `ssl_cert_digest':
17:06.16DJ_InstincTssl.c:446: warning: implicit declaration of function `EVP_sha256'
17:06.24DJ_InstincTssl.c:447: warning: passing arg 2 of `X509_digest' makes pointer from integer without a cast
17:07.00antiphasesuggests RTFM
17:07.59BlaptoRight, I'm going on holiday for a fortnight
17:08.00Blaptobye
17:08.33*** part/#gllug Blapto (n=martin@62.189.100.228)
18:27.01DJ_InstincTquit
18:50.49*** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk)
18:51.00DiscordianUKEvening
18:52.36boudiccasgood evening
18:54.59DiscordianUKHi boudiccas
19:40.41gregjleeds: well... that is a different case, but you know I will.
19:42.33*** join/#gllug andronicus7 (n=dave@87-198-168-154.ptr.magnet.ie)
20:17.07*** join/#gllug rhowe_ (n=rhowe@78-32-63-25.no-dns-yet.enta.net)
21:51.06*** join/#gllug simpleguy (i=simple1@spacelab.simpleguy.name)
21:51.33simpleguyGood evening everyone
21:51.47DiscordianUKning
21:52.45simpleguyIm a tourist in London and free software/linux entusiast. I was browing around a bit to see whats the status of LUGs in the UK and found the GLLUG
21:53.09simpleguyIm from Mauritius island
21:55.04*** part/#gllug simpleguy (i=simple1@spacelab.simpleguy.name)
22:40.45ChoHagSo, after yesterday's power outage and utter lack of failover, today's what-the-fuck-happend meeting was .... nonexistent.
22:41.32ChoHagIn fact, although I am required to record changes made to echo statements in a script which is still in development, it's not even been noted in the system incidents database.
22:55.19*** join/#gllug curson (n=curzon@79-69-0-221.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
23:01.38kjsAhahahhahahahah its midnight !!! THATS SO FUCKING FUNNY
23:08.41cursonindeed, so my clock says too
23:24.06*** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk)
23:28.35*** join/#gllug curson_ (n=curzon@79-69-4-108.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)

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