| 00:14.29 | *** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 00:17.54 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n058152239053.netvigator.com) |
| 03:03.17 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n219076246216.netvigator.com) |
| 04:44.35 | morsing | Leeds! |
| 06:42.27 | *** join/#gllug Stephmw (n=steph@host81-129-157-128.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) |
| 06:52.26 | morsing | Stephmw! |
| 07:27.37 | hali | morning |
| 07:39.52 | morsing | 'morning dear |
| 07:40.00 | morsing | hali: What did you have for breakfast? |
| 07:40.08 | hali | coffee |
| 07:40.17 | hali | and sql server migration plans |
| 07:40.21 | morsing | Nice |
| 07:42.26 | morsing | Why is is impossible to find a location for the Hub in MK? |
| 07:47.57 | morsing | So no-one knows... |
| 08:06.45 | Leeds | there's a Hub in Mongkok? |
| 08:08.57 | antiphase | Put it under one of the cows |
| 08:14.35 | morsing | 06:11 < morsing> Bye... |
| 08:14.43 | morsing | Ermm... |
| 08:17.50 | *** join/#gllug sabinef72 (n=sabinef7@ns.popipo.fr) |
| 08:22.33 | morsing | sabinef72! |
| 09:00.26 | *** join/#gllug Stephmw (n=steph@79.173.141.66) |
| 09:01.58 | morsing | Stephmw! |
| 09:17.07 | bilarh_ | morning folks |
| 09:18.59 | morsing | bilarh_: http://www.morsing.cc/photos/StarterMotor/imm002.jpg |
| 09:19.46 | bilarh_ | why did you paint it brown? :P |
| 09:19.51 | morsing | ?? |
| 09:20.08 | bilarh_ | is that copperslip or is it rust? |
| 09:20.36 | morsing | It's... Graphite? Or whatever brushes are made off... |
| 09:20.57 | morsing | Mixed with copper, yes |
| 09:21.14 | bilarh_ | so i'm guessing your starter motor stopped working at some point? :) |
| 09:21.41 | morsing | bilarh_: No - I dropped a washer into it while doing some re-wiring :(((((( |
| 09:21.55 | bilarh_ | so now it's stopped working? :) |
| 09:22.05 | bilarh_ | washers suck |
| 09:22.20 | bilarh_ | i always drop them in random places and have to replace them |
| 09:22.29 | bilarh_ | and they *always* get jammed somewhere where you can't get them |
| 09:24.06 | bilarh_ | i was busy in the weekend too, changing my cam belt |
| 09:24.15 | bilarh_ | took me 6 hours all in all |
| 09:24.30 | bilarh_ | including a trip to halfords to pick up 2x 10mm allen keys and a g-clamp |
| 09:25.23 | bilarh_ | and i only have two screws and a bracket over as well :D |
| 09:27.39 | morsing | bilarh_: It never stopped working... |
| 09:28.08 | morsing | But tell me why there's a silly hole in the casing for washers to fall into in the first place... |
| 09:28.43 | bilarh_ | it's the chevette, isn't it? |
| 09:28.45 | morsing | I always have surplus bits when I finishes jobs :) |
| 09:28.49 | morsing | Kinda... |
| 09:28.55 | bilarh_ | but with a 350? |
| 09:28.58 | antiphase | There shouldn't be, unless you're missing a band around the brush access holes |
| 09:29.00 | morsing | There's no point in that hole |
| 09:29.09 | morsing | "Band"? |
| 09:29.15 | bilarh_ | i think it's there to let in water |
| 09:29.23 | morsing | Ermm... BLoody hope not |
| 09:29.29 | bilarh_ | so that you have to buy a new one every so often |
| 09:29.41 | bilarh_ | btw, has anyone seen my tin foil hat? |
| 09:29.52 | antiphase | I've seen old starter motors with a detahcable steel band so you can inspect the brushes |
| 09:29.55 | morsing | Anyway, got all the re-wiring done. Proper stuff! 40mm2 with junction boxes and everything :) |
| 09:30.09 | morsing | antiphase: That makess more sense |
| 09:30.15 | antiphase | How many lorry engines are you planning on starting at once? |
| 09:30.16 | morsing | I should get a new band then |
| 09:30.28 | morsing | antiphase: Only the one in my car |
| 09:30.51 | antiphase | 40mm^2 is crazy for a car engine unless you have a couple of kilowatts of ICE in there as well |
| 09:31.17 | morsing | What I've put in can handle 300A continuosly all the way through |
| 09:31.24 | antiphase | I used 35 on a diesel Land Rover once and it was massive overkill, and an absolute pig to work with |
| 09:31.39 | antiphase | You could stuff 1000A down a few metres of that stuff |
| 09:31.54 | bilarh_ | is 40mm2 0awg? |
| 09:32.03 | morsing | 40mm2 is good for 300A - and should be able to handle my 8.8L when I put that in |
| 09:32.06 | antiphase | Bigger I'd think |
| 09:32.09 | morsing | 0awg? |
| 09:32.16 | bilarh_ | damn that is a beefy cable |
| 09:32.36 | bilarh_ | morsing: i thought your chevette was supposed to be a stripped out 402m racer? |
| 09:32.42 | morsing | bilarh_: So beefy I had to buy a new heavy duty battery terminal lfor it to fit into :) |
| 09:32.48 | morsing | 402m? |
| 09:32.50 | bilarh_ | i.e. you'd want to put as little cables as possible in :) |
| 09:32.54 | bilarh_ | 402.33m |
| 09:32.58 | morsing | ?! |
| 09:33.01 | morsing | You've lost me |
| 09:33.11 | bilarh_ | quarter mile? |
| 09:33.17 | morsing | It's never going to be stripped anything |
| 09:33.33 | antiphase | The problem is you have cable which is continuously rated for 300A, whereas it only takes a couple of seconds to start an engine |
| 09:33.35 | morsing | It'll be full everything proper car with power to move it. |
| 09:33.49 | morsing | "Problem"? |
| 09:34.10 | antiphase | What happens is you bolt it to the starter motor, and because it's so stiff it rips the terminal off after the engine vibrates a bit |
| 09:34.12 | bilarh_ | i just bought my first "practical performance car" magazine btw, it's bloody ace! Finally a car magazine that I feel I can "connect" with |
| 09:34.29 | morsing | antiphase: It's soft cable |
| 09:34.35 | antiphase | IT is now ;) |
| 09:34.36 | morsing | 0.35 strands |
| 09:35.02 | morsing | bilarh_: Magazines are just too expensive unfortunately |
| 09:35.16 | bilarh_ | morsing: one of life's little pleasures |
| 09:35.23 | morsing | antiphase: And the terminal is an M8 stud |
| 09:35.26 | bilarh_ | especially when they have old ratty tuned cars :D |
| 09:35.44 | morsing | Sorry, M10 |
| 09:35.58 | hali | sighs |
| 09:36.27 | morsing | hands hali another cawfy |
| 09:36.38 | hali | having a very nice cawfy from pret |
| 09:36.43 | hali | prefectly weighted |
| 09:36.43 | bilarh_ | beats hali with a snapped off rusty bolt head |
| 09:37.07 | hali | bilarh_: you were predricting me slagging off non-standard in-car audio? :) |
| 09:40.19 | bilarh_ | no i was anticipating a non-coherent rant about cars, the environment, sandals vs socks and eating lentils, generally :) |
| 09:40.39 | morsing | 300A ftw |
| 09:40.51 | bilarh_ | morsing: super-overkill :) |
| 09:40.55 | bilarh_ | morsing: it must weigh a ton |
| 09:40.58 | bilarh_ | tonne |
| 09:41.57 | morsing | It's not over-kill. Weighed a bit but not too bad |
| 09:42.30 | hali | bilarh_: hm, actually i ate humous yesterday |
| 09:43.03 | bilarh_ | hali: did you wear sandals and read the guardian as well? |
| 09:43.30 | hali | bilarh_: in my pants only and, seriously, me reading the guardian? :) |
| 09:44.06 | bilarh_ | humous is pretty guardian, isn't it? |
| 09:44.10 | hali | no |
| 09:44.25 | hali | from israel, and they are pretty facist :) |
| 09:44.28 | bilarh_ | or possibly middle-england daily mail |
| 09:44.37 | bilarh_ | daily mail it is then :) |
| 09:44.55 | hali | i do pretend to be middle-class |
| 09:45.22 | hali | i even signed up for a membership in "friends of kew gardens" last week, how middle-class is that? :) |
| 09:46.44 | bilarh_ | i wouldn't call it middle-class... it's more totally elton john and freddie mercury :) |
| 09:47.00 | bilarh_ | can i start calling you batty boy now? :D |
| 09:47.42 | morsing | snogs bilarh_ |
| 10:13.51 | *** join/#gllug Provito (n=Provito@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/Provito) |
| 10:14.11 | morsing | Provito! |
| 10:14.22 | *** join/#gllug Blapto (n=martin@62.189.100.228) |
| 10:14.36 | morsing | Blapto! |
| 10:16.35 | Provito | bah, system problems at the moment |
| 10:16.45 | Provito | time for an overclockers.co.uk spree I think |
| 10:19.31 | Blapto | morsing! |
| 10:19.38 | Blapto | morsing: did you eat it yet? |
| 11:45.46 | ChoHag | What sort of load average should a heavily-used nfs server have? |
| 11:46.06 | Blapto | 0? |
| 11:46.17 | Blapto | Unless you start to get shagged by iowait |
| 11:47.00 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 11:47.14 | morsing | dick_turpin! |
| 11:47.32 | ChoHag | I have 9. |
| 11:47.34 | morsing | ChoHag: Too vague a question |
| 11:47.34 | dick_turpin | :-) |
| 11:47.51 | morsing | ChoHag: Are you running this on your iPhone? |
| 11:48.02 | ChoHag | heh. |
| 11:48.03 | ChoHag | No. |
| 11:48.09 | morsing | 9 is wrong then |
| 11:48.12 | ChoHag | Almost as bad though - it's running SLES. |
| 11:48.25 | morsing | ChoHag: vmstat 2 |
| 11:48.28 | Blapto | play with iostat to see if you can work out what's giong on |
| 11:48.34 | ChoHag | iowait doesn't seem to be excessive. |
| 11:48.35 | Blapto | or vmstat, yes, handy if it's a multi core box |
| 11:48.48 | ChoHag | I'm not sure nfs is the culprit but I can't just turn it off and see. |
| 11:48.52 | morsing | ChoHag: What's r, b, and w in vmstat? |
| 11:51.55 | ChoHag | 0, 0 and between 15 and 20. |
| 11:52.14 | ChoHag | Assuming by w you mean cpu wait ('wa'). |
| 11:52.24 | z00dax | and oprofile isnt available ? |
| 11:53.01 | morsing | ChoHag: Your profile is with disk IO |
| 11:53.13 | morsing | Or maybe network... |
| 11:53.15 | morsing | Hmm |
| 11:53.37 | morsing | Does iostat not list anything for network interfaces or disks? |
| 11:57.12 | ChoHag | iostat indicates about 250-300 IO reqs /sec. |
| 11:57.27 | morsing | ... |
| 11:57.28 | ChoHag | Linux only sees one (raided) device. |
| 11:57.44 | morsing | What's the % busy on that device? |
| 11:58.29 | ChoHag | I don't know where that is. |
| 11:58.52 | morsing | Hmm... I'm guessing a Linux limitation |
| 11:59.05 | ChoHag | Probably. Linux is good at them. |
| 12:05.59 | antiphase | Load average isn't really that useful for anything anyway |
| 12:06.03 | antiphase | wonders why it matters |
| 12:06.12 | Blapto | antiphase: good indicator of things going screwy |
| 12:06.28 | antiphase | rests his case |
| 12:06.29 | Blapto | smoke, fire, etc. |
| 12:06.37 | morsing | Anyone here good at setting up tmssa? |
| 12:06.49 | morsing | antiphase: It matters a lot |
| 12:07.01 | ChoHag | I think it might have something to do with the hanging modprobe command. |
| 12:07.24 | antiphase | I know what it is, and I know how it works, and it still is of little use on a day-to-day basis, or as a metric for judging operating parameters |
| 12:07.45 | morsing | It's very useful but you have to understand it |
| 12:08.18 | antiphase | If you say so |
| 12:08.57 | *** join/#gllug Stephmw (n=steph@host81-129-157-128.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:09.02 | bilarh_ | playing devils advocate, what is load average anyway? |
| 12:09.02 | bilarh_ | what does the number signify? |
| 12:09.07 | bilarh_ | :) |
| 12:10.02 | Blapto | average number of processes waiting to execute over the last 1 minute, 5 minutes, 15 minutes. |
| 12:10.12 | antiphase | Running, not waiting |
| 12:10.25 | bilarh_ | in the run-queue, isn't it? |
| 12:10.29 | bilarh_ | runnable |
| 12:10.48 | antiphase | Which suggests they are running, rather than sleeping. Whether they're waiting or not is variable of course :) |
| 12:10.56 | bilarh_ | true :-) |
| 12:11.15 | Blapto | I don't mean wait()ing |
| 12:11.22 | Blapto | sorry, being ambiguous. |
| 12:11.24 | bilarh_ | i was just splitting hairs :) |
| 12:11.38 | z00dax | but not all jobs |
| 12:11.45 | z00dax | stuff in the kernel's run-queue is not reflected in la |
| 12:11.50 | antiphase | But whatever, if you haven't run out of CPU time, you're OK, which means that CPU utilisation is a far more meaningful metric of business |
| 12:12.24 | Blapto | antiphase: what if your disk isn't keeping up? |
| 12:12.28 | Blapto | or network |
| 12:12.44 | antiphase | It's perfectly reasonable to run web servers with ridiculous load averages because of the intermittent nature of their activity |
| 12:12.49 | bilarh_ | blapto: but then your load average would sink, as the processes would be in wait |
| 12:13.10 | bilarh_ | blapto: i.e. not in the run-queeu |
| 12:13.34 | Blapto | bilarh_: unless they're shit |
| 12:14.25 | bilarh_ | blapto: unless they're somehow busy waiting on i/o? |
| 12:14.47 | z00dax | there are better ways to measure i/o saturation than la |
| 12:14.50 | Blapto | as in reading data? |
| 12:15.47 | bilarh_ | blapto: no what i meant was, if the i/o subsys could not keep up, the processes read/write's would block the process, so the load average would sink |
| 12:16.14 | Blapto | to be honest, I'm losing track |
| 12:18.35 | ChoHag | We don't alert on load avg, but if it rises then I like to know about it. |
| 12:19.25 | ChoHag | And the fact that a nfs box is consistently above 5 indicates either than I shouldn't pay attention to averages < about 7.5 or that something is busy which shouldn't be. |
| 12:19.52 | ChoHag | CPU idle time, which is monitored more actively, is right where it should be. |
| 12:20.06 | ChoHag | Anyway - lunch. |
| 12:20.35 | morsing | Beer |
| 12:21.08 | ChoHag | Close - bread. |
| 12:22.26 | z00dax | how many cores does that machine have ? |
| 12:24.06 | z00dax | la of 5 on a machine with 32 cores, should be mostly ok |
| 12:24.47 | antiphase | I wouldn't give it a second look unless it was at least nCores+1 |
| 12:25.29 | z00dax | s/+/*/ |
| 12:25.56 | z00dax | err.. 2 times the number of cores is what I meant, till you hit that, the machine is mostly quite responsive. unless there is a specific issue. |
| 12:26.13 | z00dax | like someone running openssl speed tests in a loop |
| 12:38.47 | *** join/#gllug Stephmw (n=steph@host81-129-157-128.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:43.02 | *** join/#gllug Stephmw (n=steph@host81-129-157-128.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:49.20 | morsing | Stephmw! |
| 13:11.01 | *** part/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 13:16.20 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n058152239053.netvigator.com) |
| 13:16.53 | Leeds | morsing! |
| 13:29.39 | morsing | Leeds! |
| 13:42.13 | *** part/#gllug yaarg (n=jg@dubious.flightfromennui.com) |
| 15:26.55 | *** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 16:29.05 | *** join/#gllug ch_ (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 17:09.43 | kjs | evening |
| 17:21.37 | *** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild) |
| 18:01.06 | *** join/#gllug nixofortune (n=egor@87.127.26.43) |
| 18:53.26 | kjs | http://www.todaysbigfail.com/view/20080823 |
| 18:53.28 | kjs | hahahhahahah |
| 18:58.49 | *** join/#gllug andronicus7 (n=dave@87-198-168-154.ptr.magnet.ie) |
| 19:17.08 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@dsl82-163-112-79.as15444.net) |
| 19:31.43 | *** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild) |
| 19:46.55 | *** part/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@dsl82-163-112-79.as15444.net) |
| 19:59.46 | *** join/#gllug boudicca (n=boudicca@88-108-98-192.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 20:27.34 | morsing | boudiccas! |
| 21:11.18 | *** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 21:52.24 | Discordian | congrats if you just got a PhD |
| 21:52.40 | hali | yay |
| 21:52.44 | DrWethrin | Thanks :) |
| 21:52.48 | hali | you can sort out morsings passport now ;) |
| 21:53.13 | DrWethrin | Heh. I'm not sure I can do that until I get an official degree conferral |
| 21:53.38 | hali | whats your phd in? |
| 21:53.42 | Discordian | doesn't have a degree |
| 21:55.18 | DrWethrin | hali: Organic electronics. Transistors, specifically |
| 21:56.02 | hali | handy |
| 21:56.36 | DrWethrin | always :) |
| 22:25.47 | *** join/#gllug Alex (i=hauntedu@goatse.co.uk) |
| 23:11.58 | z00dax | wooo |
| 23:38.15 | *** join/#gllug Alex (i=hauntedu@goatse.co.uk) |
| 23:51.10 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n058152239053.netvigator.com) |
