| 00:19.01 | *** join/#gllug nixofortune_ (n=egor@87.127.26.43) |
| 01:08.11 | *** join/#gllug Discordian (n=clive@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 02:12.41 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n220246107224.netvigator.com) |
| 04:54.38 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n058153120124.netvigator.com) |
| 06:07.38 | morsing | Leeds! |
| 06:44.17 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n220246107224.netvigator.com) |
| 07:44.29 | *** join/#gllug Discordian (n=clive@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 08:02.24 | morsing | Leeds! |
| 08:39.28 | *** join/#gllug Blapto (n=martin@62.189.100.228) |
| 08:40.29 | morsing | Blapto! |
| 08:40.37 | Blapto | morsing! |
| 08:40.48 | morsing | Blapto: What's for breakfast? |
| 08:41.14 | Blapto | crumpets and grapefruit juice |
| 08:41.14 | Blapto | mmmm |
| 08:41.21 | morsing | Marmite? |
| 08:41.29 | Blapto | butter |
| 08:41.30 | Blapto | lots of butter |
| 08:41.34 | Blapto | as much butter as crumpet |
| 08:41.38 | morsing | Bacon? |
| 08:42.03 | Blapto | crumepts |
| 08:42.06 | Blapto | crumpets! |
| 08:42.07 | Blapto | no bacon |
| 08:42.51 | Leeds | still haven't found any crumpets... |
| 08:43.00 | morsing | Why doesn't this work... |
| 08:43.10 | Leeds | they sell muffins in the regular supermarkets, but I haven't seen crumpets in a while |
| 08:47.28 | *** join/#gllug blight (n=blight@83.244.128.126) |
| 08:51.48 | morsing | blight! |
| 08:55.41 | blight | morsing: mornin |
| 09:01.07 | *** join/#gllug sabinef72 (n=sabinef7@ns.popipo.fr) |
| 09:01.52 | *** join/#gllug hali (n=hampus@emma.dnsdrift.net) |
| 09:14.26 | blight | so, the Ubuntu release party was a bit of a let down ... |
| 09:15.18 | Leeds | three geeks in a pub? |
| 09:16.31 | blight | Leeds: basically |
| 09:18.23 | blight | Leeds: was expecting more fan-fare, maybe a few DVDs, some "booth babes" would have been nice |
| 09:18.49 | Leeds | who actually put it on? |
| 09:19.46 | blight | Leeds: well I guess the "Ubuntu community" sponsored by Canonical |
| 09:19.54 | blight | Leeds: Mr Shuttleworth was there |
| 09:20.24 | Leeds | then you would have thought they could do a decent job :-) |
| 09:23.04 | morsing | sabinef72! |
| 09:23.05 | morsing | hali! |
| 09:33.03 | Blapto | I went along from about 6:30 to 7 |
| 09:33.07 | Blapto | Saw popey there. |
| 09:33.18 | Blapto | was a bit quiet though |
| 09:39.56 | morsing | Blapto: Was he asleep? |
| 09:39.58 | blight | Blapto: yeah - it only seemed to get going a little later |
| 09:40.12 | blight | Blapto: by going I mean after I had a few pints |
| 09:40.51 | morsing | Beer |
| 09:41.42 | blight | morsing: well Irish stout/ale in this case - pretty much like water |
| 09:41.49 | Blapto | morsing: he seemed wide awake and holding guinness |
| 09:48.43 | morsing | Nice |
| 09:52.29 | *** join/#gllug Stephmw (n=steph@79.173.141.66) |
| 09:55.52 | morsing | Stephmw! |
| 11:20.42 | *** join/#gllug axelS (n=axel@cpc4-stev4-0-0-cust916.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 11:20.47 | morsing | axelS" |
| 11:27.06 | *** join/#gllug axelS (n=axel@cpc4-stev4-0-0-cust916.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 11:28.16 | axelS | morning |
| 11:44.07 | wethrin | hey axelS |
| 11:44.16 | morsing | wethrin: You're hiding... |
| 11:44.29 | wethrin | just got back |
| 11:45.50 | Blapto | baby got back |
| 11:51.25 | morsing | Beer |
| 12:00.50 | axelS | mmm beer... |
| 12:00.52 | axelS | hi folks |
| 12:46.42 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 13:18.08 | morsing | dick_turpin! |
| 13:19.18 | dick_turpin | morsing: :-) |
| 13:30.10 | morsing | 13:29 < Vanger> Oh, fsck, gonna get red tea, pour a hot coffee in it and mix with energetic beverage |
| 14:34.03 | bilarh | aah ffs *stab stab stab* |
| 14:34.14 | wethrin | What's wrong with ffs? |
| 14:34.20 | wethrin | Probably more stable than reiserfs |
| 14:34.22 | bilarh | so, i've been building this RPM of nagios, because we're rolling it out to all sites we have |
| 14:34.25 | bilarh | worldwide |
| 14:34.32 | bilarh | and we've got this custom nagios build with some extra options |
| 14:34.49 | bilarh | now the fucking idiot programmer wants me to send the source out to the centres so that they can modify a hostname in it |
| 14:34.54 | bilarh | instead of sticking it a config file |
| 14:34.58 | bilarh | he wants to modify the binary |
| 14:35.03 | bilarh | fucking idiot |
| 14:35.25 | bilarh | i so feel like handing in my notice |
| 14:35.32 | wethrin | You should. You need better workpeople |
| 14:35.46 | bilarh | i'm telling you, they're *INSANE* |
| 14:35.56 | wethrin | Just send an email to him saying "Put the hostname in the config file" |
| 14:36.03 | wethrin | And nothing further |
| 14:36.55 | bilarh | and he's unable to use SVN as well |
| 14:37.06 | bilarh | he wants me to send him the "source tree" |
| 14:37.08 | bilarh | god damnit |
| 14:37.16 | bilarh | i'm sending him and everyone else an email on the use of SVN isntead :D |
| 14:37.19 | wethrin | Again. Quick email: "svn checkout <module>" |
| 14:37.29 | bilarh | that is roughly what my mail amounts ot |
| 14:37.45 | bilarh | and a strong hint that having to modify a binary for a site is a bad idea |
| 14:38.10 | wethrin | "If you cannot grasp these instructions, our department will be happy to bill your department its hourly consultancy rates" |
| 14:39.10 | dick_turpin | wethrin: Thats was exactly what I was thinking. bilarh you've missed a sales opportunity |
| 14:40.22 | bilarh | i think i've lost the will to live |
| 14:40.38 | bilarh | honestly, it's friday, and i'm dreading monday already because it means i have to go back to work |
| 14:40.46 | wethrin | So, the supercomputing sysadmin job up in Edinburgh might still be vacant |
| 14:41.00 | bilarh | my happiest moment every day is when i walk out the sliding doors of this sorry building |
| 14:41.36 | wethrin | You need to find a new job |
| 14:41.43 | wethrin | But in the meantime, I enjoy your tales of stupidity |
| 14:41.49 | bilarh | hehe :D |
| 14:42.11 | bilarh | i'm trying to nab the title of stupidest workplace from ch0hag |
| 14:42.28 | wethrin | Hm. dick_turpin had a good run for some time |
| 14:42.34 | dick_turpin | bilarh: If you get a new job ask them if I can join too that way we would definately do bugger all all day |
| 14:42.41 | wethrin | but he's not provided us with tales up stupidity recently |
| 14:43.01 | dick_turpin | wethrin: Ooh I have loads |
| 14:43.33 | dick_turpin | wethrin: I thought people was getting bored or at least beginning to doubt the validity |
| 14:45.07 | wethrin | No, no |
| 14:45.21 | wethrin | You need to tell more stories so you can be in the running for stupidest workplace again |
| 14:46.20 | dick_turpin | wethrin: Um did I tell you about the Administrator password debacle? |
| 14:48.27 | wethrin | No |
| 14:49.07 | bilarh | dick_turpin: whatever you can come up with on that front, i can better :D |
| 14:49.38 | dick_turpin | wethrin: OK whats the most common admin password that crap IT people use on Windows servers? |
| 14:49.44 | wethrin | 'letmein' ? |
| 14:49.50 | wethrin | or 'admin' or the company name |
| 14:50.10 | dick_turpin | no but close on the last one |
| 14:50.55 | bilarh | i, ahem, know of a company that has 'password' as the root password on a whole bunch of servers |
| 14:51.11 | dick_turpin | lol sysadmin |
| 14:51.30 | wethrin | bilarh: Internet-facing, or purely internal? |
| 14:51.38 | wethrin | Or, well, production or development? |
| 14:51.50 | dick_turpin | So they had sysadmin on our sytems and all of our customers systems |
| 14:52.16 | dick_turpin | one day Customers got hacked one by one |
| 14:52.24 | wethrin | oops |
| 14:52.30 | dick_turpin | They was running round like headless chickens |
| 14:52.53 | bilarh | wethrin: production, but that means internal here |
| 14:52.54 | bilarh | e |
| 14:52.59 | bilarh | we don't have any internet facing stuff |
| 14:53.20 | bilarh | i mean it's not our password, of course :P |
| 14:53.46 | dick_turpin | So they remote accessed and change every password sent engineers out blah blah blah yet did'nt make a record of new passwords and didn't tell the customers |
| 14:54.05 | bilarh | hehe |
| 14:54.17 | dick_turpin | Oh how we laughed at the three months of nightmares |
| 14:54.34 | bilarh | i sometimes wonder how companies like that actually survive |
| 14:56.08 | dick_turpin | bilarh: Because we deal with the scumbag end of the market, if most of our customers paid 'going rates' they'd have a dicky fit |
| 14:56.20 | bilarh | ah :P |
| 14:57.06 | dick_turpin | We charge £300 a day consultancy I've heard of competitors in our area charging £600 |
| 14:58.02 | wethrin | how much does morsing's company charge per day? |
| 14:58.14 | dick_turpin | I know of one company that charges £1000 per PC for some software called Guest Line we charge £95 per year for a PC |
| 14:58.28 | morsing | Consultancy is normally £1000-£1200 |
| 14:58.29 | dick_turpin | Maintenance |
| 14:58.52 | morsing | I charge £400 atm but I@m not a consultant |
| 14:58.55 | morsing | I'm |
| 15:00.29 | dick_turpin | As an example I have an enquiry for 2 laptops they need to be rugged I'd like him to have an IBM but they are £900 each (My cost) so I know he will have a heart attack if I quote them |
| 15:00.51 | wethrin | ah, yes. Contractors are cheaper/day, as they normally get kept on for longer |
| 15:01.24 | dick_turpin | I'm waiting for Dell to get back to me on a Latitude ATG Laptop but I bet they are pricey too |
| 15:01.29 | wethrin | morsing: You get £400/day from your agency - but is that what your agency bills your client? |
| 15:01.35 | wethrin | (or am I misunderstanding things) |
| 15:01.57 | wethrin | dick_turpin: If you want a *rugged* laptop, then they cost lots |
| 15:01.57 | dick_turpin | wethrin: They be charging way above that |
| 15:02.04 | morsing | No, they'll bill the client more |
| 15:02.11 | wethrin | Right, thought so |
| 15:03.54 | dick_turpin | wethrin: True but then (In a nice way) you don't know how thick even sysadmins are the breif is "They have to be rugged they'll get chucked in cars etc" now any old lappy will fit his bill he just needs to be strict with the staff |
| 15:05.28 | wethrin | Sorry, that's not 'rugged' to my mind |
| 15:05.41 | wethrin | Rugged means you can drop it from a couple of metres onto concrete, and it won't break |
| 15:07.12 | dick_turpin | wethrin: Yeah maybe I mislead you, sorry, tut salesmen aye? Keep you talking while emptying your pockets :-) |
| 15:07.31 | wethrin | yeah |
| 15:07.51 | dick_turpin | wethrin: I know scum of the earth sales people |
| 15:08.52 | bilarh | burn them all on a stake |
| 15:08.57 | bilarh | together with stupid programmers |
| 15:11.24 | dick_turpin | bilarh: And sysadmins :-D |
| 15:25.06 | bilarh | yeah them too |
| 15:31.42 | dick_turpin | Kin ell Dell Latitude ATG with lowest spec possible £940 (Resller Price) |
| 15:44.18 | wethrin | Face it. Decent hardware costs money. |
| 15:44.53 | morsing | dick_turpin: We've got some spare P670s going |
| 15:50.22 | dick_turpin | morsing: But thats not a laptop, are you giving them away? |
| 15:50.41 | morsing | dick_turpin: £20k a piece |
| 15:51.48 | dick_turpin | Yeah figures. Website says "Call for a quote" |
| 15:54.43 | morsing | ?? |
| 15:54.48 | morsing | Quote for what? |
| 15:55.00 | morsing | They don't make them anymore |
| 15:55.51 | dick_turpin | http://www.nasi.com/pSeries_670.php |
| 15:56.02 | morsing | Used one |
| 15:56.36 | dick_turpin | I deal in refurbished 2 nd user kit |
| 15:56.45 | dick_turpin | 2nd |
| 15:57.16 | wethrin | morsing: Pah. Edinburgh had some spare P690s. Free. |
| 15:57.30 | wethrin | So stop ripping us off with your £20k figure! |
| 16:16.22 | hali | and you can get 550's with p6's for less than that |
| 16:16.36 | hali | a lot greener |
| 16:24.10 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n058153120124.netvigator.com) |
| 16:37.52 | *** join/#gllug Discordian (n=clive@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 16:56.35 | *** part/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 17:18.46 | morsing | Leeds! |
| 17:30.16 | Stephmw | If anyone's interested... http://www.itexaminer.com/us-court-throws-out-most-software-patents.aspx |
| 17:31.24 | *** join/#gllug Discordian (n=clive@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 20:12.13 | morsing | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7702913.stm |
| 20:23.17 | Mohan | hi morsing |
| 20:23.54 | morsing | :) |
| 20:24.03 | morsing | Mohan: What's for tea? |
| 20:25.19 | Mohan | mcvities digestives |
| 20:25.24 | morsing | :) |
| 20:25.30 | morsing | Very light tea |
| 20:25.37 | morsing | boudiccas: What's for tea? |
| 20:25.41 | Mohan | help yoursel have some :) |
| 20:25.45 | morsing | :) |
| 20:26.37 | Mohan | whats the best way to reduce the noise coming from a server |
| 20:26.45 | Mohan | apart from turning it off |
| 20:27.23 | morsing | Mohan: Why do you want to reduce it? |
| 20:28.26 | Mohan | i got a server for testing purposes. it has got like 7 fans including the smps |
| 20:28.55 | Mohan | its just annoying to run it in the living room |
| 20:30.20 | Mohan | nuthing much i can do i suppose :( |
| 20:30.24 | morsing | That's what datacenters are for |
| 20:30.39 | Mohan | true. |
| 20:30.43 | morsing | Mohan: Why's Elizabeth upset? |
| 20:31.02 | Mohan | because you drank her tea |
| 20:31.43 | morsing | :( |
| 20:31.48 | Mohan | and stole her cookie jar as well :( |
| 20:31.52 | morsing | no - that's not it |
| 20:32.11 | Mohan | so what is it then ? |
| 20:33.15 | morsing | Ermm... |
| 20:38.47 | Mohan | morsing: whats special for halloween ? |
| 20:40.29 | morsing | Mohan: No idea |
| 20:40.36 | morsing | Elizabeth is speaking to me :) |
| 20:44.17 | Mohan | wonders who is Elizabeth :~ |
| 20:45.06 | *** join/#gllug Discordian (n=clive@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 21:02.07 | z00dax | morsing: get her number quick! |
| 21:02.21 | z00dax | also, make sure you tell her you use AIX. |
| 21:02.22 | morsing | z00dax: ?! Got it already |
| 21:02.29 | z00dax | nice move! |
| 21:02.33 | morsing | Ermm... |
| 21:02.35 | z00dax | also, happy pgan new years |
| 21:02.41 | z00dax | pagan even |
| 21:02.58 | morsing | And the reason she got upset was that she didn't feel I was interested enough in her |
| 21:03.10 | z00dax | my CC got declined today at the parking payment place. |
| 21:03.27 | morsing | z00dax: Where's Mohan? |
| 21:03.31 | z00dax | when i called the bank and asked about it - they said "we thought you might have lost it since you have not used it in 5 months" |
| 21:03.33 | *** join/#gllug konadr (n=Raskolni@unaffiliated/konadr) |
| 21:03.34 | z00dax | wtf |
| 21:03.36 | morsing | konadr! |
| 21:03.39 | z00dax | morsing: over there ->>> |
| 21:04.05 | konadr | morsing!! |
| 21:05.33 | konadr | it's all very 2008 with their trick or treat, back in my day I tell you we were lucky to go bobbing for apples or searching in the lucky dip |
| 21:06.31 | antiphase | puts uranium through konadr's letter box |
| 21:07.14 | konadr | ;( ahhhh it burns |
| 21:07.54 | z00dax | i found a case of 4 year old packaged beer.... |
| 21:08.06 | z00dax | it says best before Sept 2007 |
| 21:08.44 | z00dax | does 'best befre' i nthis case mean that it might still be drinkable ? just not in its best shape |
| 21:10.48 | Discordian | hmm give some a try |
| 21:11.32 | z00dax | Discordian: hey |
| 21:11.42 | z00dax | have you moved already ? or still in the hood ? |
| 21:11.55 | Discordian | still around |
| 21:14.32 | Discordian | i can't see how beer could go off |
| 21:16.41 | konadr | hmm I searched around here high and low for Beamish but to no avail, I think I have to trawl the corner shops of Archway tomorrow to find some ...... mnnnnnnn beamish |
| 21:41.43 | wethrin | z00dax: What sort of beer? |
| 21:42.04 | wethrin | If it's bottle conditioned, it may have a) improved, or b) gone off |
| 21:43.38 | z00dax | cans; fosters |
| 21:44.03 | wethrin | Oh. Well, it's awful anyway |
| 21:44.11 | z00dax | well, that and kronenberg ? |
| 21:44.21 | Discordian | i prefer k1664 |
| 21:44.37 | wethrin | Kronenberg's slightly better. But still, it won't have gone off |
| 21:44.39 | z00dax | Discordian: there are about 20 cans of that as well, but seems to have best-by-date in 2006 |
| 21:45.10 | z00dax | actually, no - its 2008. Jan 2008 |
| 21:45.16 | wethrin | They'll be fine |
| 21:45.25 | Discordian | i'd imagine it's all drinkable |
| 21:45.26 | nixofortune_ | z00dax: before you try your beer, make sure you have plenty of imodium :) |
| 21:45.32 | konadr | ah shur you are grand so |
| 21:45.51 | Discordian | is drinking fosters cos i'm poor |
| 21:46.06 | z00dax | I am sticking to my spitfire for today |
| 21:47.36 | nixofortune_ | people drink wine from racked ships and really anybody dies. you'll be fine |
| 21:48.28 | Discordian | it's alcohol, bugs don't like alcohol |
| 21:48.33 | z00dax | http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?amt=1&from=GBP&to=USD&submit=Convert |
| 21:48.35 | z00dax | :/ |
| 21:49.02 | nixofortune_ | s/really/rarely |
| 21:49.31 | z00dax | since the govt is being so kind to people out of pocket these days, i wonder if they would setup a subsidiary fund for us who have servers in the US that we need to pay for in USD terms |
| 21:51.10 | *** join/#gllug blight (n=byrons@droid.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 21:53.16 | konadr | nah they are too busy giving the bank managers bigger bonuses and paying off those weasels over in the city, sell sell sell |
| 22:36.46 | *** join/#gllug mindbendr (n=run@81-86-39-225.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 22:36.56 | mindbendr | good night |
| 22:46.58 | mindbendr | is there anyone that could help me about -routing- |
| 22:47.29 | wethrin | depends on the question |
| 22:47.41 | mindbendr | cool |
| 22:47.42 | wethrin | The answer is almost certainly 'yes'. As to who can provide you with an answer will depend on the proiblem |
| 22:48.00 | mindbendr | i was wondering whether is there anyone online at this time on halloween |
| 22:48.12 | mindbendr | so my question is; |
| 22:48.25 | mindbendr | i've got a box that is going to be in the middle of two networks |
| 22:48.39 | mindbendr | one nic has got C class ip address and the other B class |
| 22:49.13 | mindbendr | and the internet gateway is a C class ip |
| 22:50.00 | wethrin | is that box the gateway machine? |
| 22:50.05 | mindbendr | no |
| 22:50.15 | mindbendr | 192.9.200.6 is the gateway address |
| 22:50.26 | mindbendr | 192.9.200.20 is the nic1 |
| 22:50.41 | mindbendr | 10.200.10.0 is nic2 |
| 22:50.43 | wethrin | okay |
| 22:51.28 | wethrin | It tends to be politer to not use .0 or .255 on the end |
| 22:51.28 | mindbendr | i've managed to set the routing table |
| 22:51.28 | mindbendr | so 192.9.200.x can connect to internet via 192.9.200.0 -> 192.9.200.6 |
| 22:51.33 | mindbendr | wethrin: I haven't set it up |
| 22:52.02 | mindbendr | and 10.200.10.x can ping 192.9.200.x network |
| 22:52.15 | mindbendr | but 10.200.10.x can't access to internet via 192.9.200.6 |
| 22:52.18 | wethrin | that's a good start |
| 22:52.32 | wethrin | Right. Default route on the 10.200 network should just be 192.9.200.0 |
| 22:52.36 | wethrin | Er |
| 22:52.37 | wethrin | Lies |
| 22:52.43 | wethrin | Default route should be 10.200.10.0 |
| 22:52.56 | mindbendr | I've set the default route to 192.9.200.12 |
| 22:52.56 | wethrin | Then that computer should do further routing |
| 22:53.05 | wethrin | why .12? |
| 22:53.30 | mindbendr | sorry 192.9.200.6 |
| 22:53.34 | mindbendr | as it's the gateway |
| 22:54.00 | mindbendr | so 192.9.200.x can access the internet |
| 22:54.08 | mindbendr | but 10.x can't |
| 22:54.15 | mindbendr | it doesn't make sense to me at all |
| 22:54.34 | wethrin | Yeah. Put a route in to 192.9.200.6 going via 10.200.10.0 |
| 22:54.35 | mindbendr | if the default route is 192.9.200.6, all the interfaces should go for that one? |
| 22:54.43 | mindbendr | hmm |
| 22:54.45 | mindbendr | why is that? |
| 22:55.02 | wethrin | Because route will choose the most specific match first |
| 22:55.15 | mindbendr | when I put that one |
| 22:55.18 | wethrin | And it finds a match for '192.9.200.6', tries to connect, and fails |
| 22:55.28 | mindbendr | but |
| 22:55.32 | wethrin | route add 192.9.200.6 10.200.10.0 |
| 22:55.43 | mindbendr | when I do this: |
| 22:56.17 | mindbendr | route add -net 10.200.10.0 netmask 255.255.0.0 gw 192.9.200.6 dev eth1 (eth1 is 10.x.x.x network) |
| 22:56.28 | mindbendr | i lose my connection for everywhere |
| 22:57.24 | wethrin | Yes. Don't Do That. |
| 22:57.34 | mindbendr | isn't that the same thing what you said |
| 22:57.42 | wethrin | Nope |
| 22:57.47 | wethrin | I said just for a specific host |
| 22:57.50 | mindbendr | ah |
| 22:58.05 | wethrin | route add 192.9.200.6 gw 10.200.10.0 |
| 22:58.32 | mindbendr | so the route goes 192.9.200.6 to 10.x network? |
| 22:58.48 | wethrin | You're on the 10.x networks at the moment? |
| 22:58.56 | wethrin | Oh. Also. |
| 22:58.58 | mindbendr | now i'm not in the office |
| 22:59.07 | mindbendr | so i can't try it but i've spent the day to solve this one |
| 22:59.10 | wethrin | Does the 192.x network access the 10.x network? |
| 22:59.14 | mindbendr | yes |
| 22:59.15 | mindbendr | it does |
| 22:59.42 | mindbendr | at the moment, it works all fine for both networks but only 192.9.x can access to internet |
| 22:59.45 | mindbendr | not 10.x network |
| 23:00.13 | wethrin | Right. Well. The default route of the 10.x network should be 10.200.10.0 |
| 23:00.27 | wethrin | And then let the routing computer sort of What Happens Next |
| 23:00.40 | wethrin | routing should be kept as simple as possible |
| 23:01.29 | mindbendr | what does that line do exactly? could you explain a little bit |
| 23:01.47 | wethrin | which line? |
| 23:02.00 | mindbendr | 10.200.10.0 default route for 10.x |
| 23:02.05 | mindbendr | why do i need that? |
| 23:02.10 | wethrin | I can try, but I'm quite tired, so my explanations may not be great |
| 23:02.18 | mindbendr | ok i can ask this |
| 23:02.20 | mindbendr | on monday |
| 23:02.27 | mindbendr | as i can try it |
| 23:02.31 | mindbendr | so nevermind :) |
| 23:02.43 | wethrin | Okay. Routing tables tell the IP stack where packets should go |
| 23:02.44 | mindbendr | i should find a how-to |
| 23:03.15 | wethrin | So you can say that to get to a particular network, say, you have to go via a particular router, which'll then pass your packets on |
| 23:03.33 | wethrin | You can even tell it how to get to a specific host |
| 23:03.38 | mindbendr | the confusion part is defining gateway for me |
| 23:03.59 | wethrin | A default route basically says "I don't know what to do with this any more. Here, you go deal with it" |
| 23:04.00 | mindbendr | how can I tell that the clients coming from 10.x should go to 192.9.200.6 gateway |
| 23:04.20 | mindbendr | if they are on different nics with different networks |
| 23:04.51 | mindbendr | because i can't do this route add -net 10.x.x. gw 192.9.200.6 dev eth1 |
| 23:04.55 | wethrin | The default route on the 10.200.10.0 machine will be '192.9.200.6' |
| 23:05.07 | mindbendr | it is already like that |
| 23:05.08 | wethrin | Now, the trick will be |
| 23:05.23 | wethrin | On the 192.9.200.6 box, you need to provide a route to the 10.x network |
| 23:05.31 | mindbendr | back to 10.x ? |
| 23:05.32 | mindbendr | ah i see |
| 23:05.39 | wethrin | So 'route add -net 10.x gw 192.9.200.0' |
| 23:05.51 | wethrin | Should hopefully do what you want |
| 23:05.55 | mindbendr | i never though that i would need anything on 192.9.200.6 box |
| 23:06.01 | mindbendr | *thought |
| 23:06.09 | mindbendr | but |
| 23:06.17 | wethrin | It's been some time since I needed to fiddle with routing |
| 23:06.31 | mindbendr | 192.9.200.6 shouldn't have anything to do with 10.x network anyway? |
| 23:07.03 | mindbendr | 192.9.200.12 is nic2 on the routing box |
| 23:07.19 | mindbendr | and 192.9.200.6 is some other gateway box |
| 23:07.31 | wethrin | 192.9 is a publically routable IP address, anyway |
| 23:07.36 | mindbendr | so 192.9.200.6 comeback to 192.9.200.12 and 192.9.200.12 should manage to route the stuff to 10.x network? |
| 23:07.38 | *** join/#gllug hali (n=hampus@emma.dnsdrift.net) |
| 23:07.48 | wethrin | Yeah |
| 23:07.58 | mindbendr | yeah that's why are we trying to set this up during the process we remove that stupid public block |
| 23:08.27 | wethrin | I take it you can't do a sudden IP address change? |
| 23:08.36 | mindbendr | wethrin, exactly |
| 23:08.51 | wethrin | Just change your dhcp config :) |
| 23:09.03 | mindbendr | wethrin, there was no dhcp |
| 23:09.09 | mindbendr | so i've set it up :) |
| 23:09.11 | wethrin | Ouch. |
| 23:09.18 | mindbendr | no dns, no dhcp |
| 23:09.21 | wethrin | I take it you didn't have central management either? |
| 23:09.22 | mindbendr | around 200 computers |
| 23:09.24 | wethrin | No DNS |
| 23:09.25 | wethrin | Err. |
| 23:09.29 | wethrin | Argh. How did you cope? |
| 23:09.42 | mindbendr | well i started to work here a while ago |
| 23:09.54 | mindbendr | so the it manager memorizes every ip and the server/pc |
| 23:09.57 | mindbendr | i ask him hehe |
| 23:10.14 | wethrin | That's really no way of running a network :) |
| 23:10.18 | mindbendr | yeah |
| 23:10.29 | mindbendr | so i had to convince him to have a dns and dhcp |
| 23:10.46 | *** join/#gllug Discordian (n=clive@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 23:10.56 | wethrin | You can assign address statically with dhcp. It's a bit more administrative hassle |
| 23:10.57 | mindbendr | but i've never dealt with routing so i'm struggling to understand |
| 23:11.13 | wethrin | routing can be a bit of a black art |
| 23:11.35 | mindbendr | the other linux admin guy (which doesn't have too much experience) was about to do this routing with iptables but |
| 23:11.44 | wethrin | iptables? |
| 23:11.44 | mindbendr | i told him to do with `route` instead |
| 23:11.44 | wethrin | NO! |
| 23:11.47 | wethrin | No no no no NO! |
| 23:11.52 | mindbendr | yeah that's what i've told |
| 23:11.54 | wethrin | route is the correct tool for the job |
| 23:12.03 | mindbendr | if you know how to do it yeah |
| 23:12.08 | mindbendr | so now i'm responsible for that |
| 23:12.23 | mindbendr | but it's hard to understand how it works |
| 23:12.53 | mindbendr | when you set the gateway as a default route |
| 23:13.10 | mindbendr | every connection that needs to go outside should go to default route i thought |
| 23:13.14 | mindbendr | but for 10.x network it doesn't |
| 23:13.22 | wethrin | What's outside? |
| 23:13.29 | mindbendr | internet |
| 23:13.58 | wethrin | The default route is merely a 'catch-all' |
| 23:14.03 | mindbendr | 10.x.x.x + 192.x.x. ---> router nic1: 192.9.200.12 nic2. 10.200.10.0 ---> another box (192.9.200.6) |
| 23:14.13 | mindbendr | this is what i'm trying to do |
| 23:14.25 | wethrin | k |
| 23:14.32 | mindbendr | so are you saying that |
| 23:14.39 | mindbendr | 192.9.200.6 needs a route to 10.x ? |
| 23:14.51 | Discordian | the secret then is route and metrics |
| 23:15.00 | wethrin | Routing tables on 192.x.x should have a) 192.9.200.12 as the route for the 10.x network, and b) default gateway of 192.9.200.6 |
| 23:16.21 | wethrin | It should be enough to have 10.x have a default route of 10.200.10.0 |
| 23:16.22 | mindbendr | so `route add -net 10.x.x.x subnet 255.255.0.0 gw 192.9.200.12` |
| 23:16.25 | mindbendr | is not what i want? |
| 23:16.35 | mindbendr | hmm |
| 23:16.36 | wethrin | It would be, yes. On the 192 network |
| 23:16.47 | mindbendr | but it says |
| 23:17.01 | mindbendr | you can't assign 192.9.200.12 as gateway as it's not on the same nic |
| 23:17.15 | wethrin | Which machine are you doing this on? |
| 23:17.28 | mindbendr | 10.100.200.20 |
| 23:17.36 | mindbendr | or 10.200.200.0 |
| 23:17.44 | wethrin | Don't Do That :) |
| 23:18.13 | wethrin | On that box, you need a route to the 10.x network going via nic2 |
| 23:18.41 | mindbendr | let me write my routing table |
| 23:18.49 | mindbendr | i've just messed it up i guess |
| 23:18.53 | wethrin | Setting the IP via ifconfig should automagically give you a correct route to the network |
| 23:19.02 | Discordian | two rfc 1918 networks? a /8 isn't big enough? |
| 23:19.12 | wethrin | Hysterical raisins |
| 23:19.18 | wethrin | And 192.9 isn't rfc1918 |
| 23:19.30 | Discordian | true my bad |
| 23:19.49 | Discordian | sorry |
| 23:20.05 | wethrin | s'ok :) |
| 23:20.17 | wethrin | 192.9.200.x isn't assigned by ARIN |
| 23:20.29 | wethrin | 192.9.10-199 is assigned to Sun |
| 23:20.42 | mindbendr | Destination Gateway Genmask Flags |
| 23:20.42 | mindbendr | 10.200.100.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U |
| 23:20.42 | mindbendr | 192.9.200.12 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U |
| 23:20.42 | mindbendr | 0.0.0.0 192.9.200.6 255.255.255.0 UG |
| 23:21.40 | mindbendr | Discordian, it was like that for years now i'm trying to migrate our network to a B class but i can't remove the other block all of a sudden :) |
| 23:21.55 | mindbendr | i've been working here for a month so, cleaning up the mess |
| 23:21.55 | wethrin | mindbendr: Is this on the routing box? |
| 23:22.02 | mindbendr | wethrin: yes |
| 23:22.09 | Discordian | no such thing as a b class now really |
| 23:22.10 | mindbendr | 192.9.200.6 is another box |
| 23:22.38 | wethrin | Right. The second line should read '192.9.200.0' |
| 23:22.43 | wethrin | As you're routing to a network, not a host |
| 23:22.56 | mindbendr | sorry, it is like that |
| 23:23.03 | mindbendr | i'm just making it up from my memory |
| 23:23.13 | mindbendr | so it is 192.9.200.0 |
| 23:23.21 | wethrin | okay |
| 23:23.25 | mindbendr | and both networks can access each other |
| 23:23.34 | mindbendr | but 10.x network can't access the gateway |
| 23:23.47 | wethrin | If you ping the gateway machine, it works? |
| 23:23.54 | mindbendr | from 10.x network no |
| 23:24.00 | mindbendr | from the routing box yes |
| 23:24.07 | mindbendr | and 192.9.x network can ping as well |
| 23:24.17 | wethrin | But you can ping the rest of the network, then |
| 23:24.20 | mindbendr | yeah |
| 23:24.23 | wethrin | It's just that one machine that causes trouble? |
| 23:24.24 | wethrin | Right |
| 23:24.40 | wethrin | So, your routing table on the 10.x network should (if I'm doing this right) look like: |
| 23:24.52 | wethrin | Destination Gateway Genmask Flags |
| 23:25.22 | wethrin | 10.200.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U |
| 23:25.47 | wethrin | 0.0.0.0 10.200.100.0 255.255.255.255 UG |
| 23:26.04 | wethrin | (I'm not 100% certain on the Genmask for the second line) |
| 23:26.15 | mindbendr | ok |
| 23:26.31 | wethrin | and I don't have a Linux box handy to check on |
| 23:26.38 | mindbendr | no problem |
| 23:26.57 | mindbendr | is that all? |
| 23:27.19 | wethrin | I believe so |
| 23:27.20 | mindbendr | when I add 2 default gateways as 10.200.100.0 and 192.9.200.0 |
| 23:27.28 | mindbendr | i lose connection for both |
| 23:27.37 | wethrin | Yes. You can only have one default gateway |
| 23:27.50 | mindbendr | hmm it doesn't say so on the web |
| 23:28.00 | mindbendr | as it can be selective when picking up the route |
| 23:28.21 | mindbendr | and in this case |
| 23:28.25 | Discordian | you need a seperate gateway and metric for 192.9.200 |
| 23:28.41 | mindbendr | what does this metric do? |
| 23:28.50 | wethrin | It's a weighting |
| 23:28.54 | mindbendr | hmm |
| 23:28.59 | Discordian | so that routing will prefer that gateway for that network |
| 23:29.10 | mindbendr | it must be the problem then |
| 23:30.36 | wethrin | Also, treat this as a good opportunity to be improve some administration practices |
| 23:30.48 | mindbendr | absolutely |
| 23:31.14 | wethrin | would suggest moving to DHCP, or some way of pushing changes out to a workstation |
| 23:31.32 | mindbendr | yeah dhcp is ready to go but without routing |
| 23:31.52 | mindbendr | it doesn't help :) |
| 23:32.21 | mindbendr | what are the keywords for searching a how-to for routing |
| 23:32.35 | mindbendr | i couldn't find anything sensible |
| 23:32.43 | mindbendr | linux routing without nat |
| 23:32.47 | mindbendr | didn't really help |
| 23:32.54 | wethrin | I suggest a good book on TCP/IP |
| 23:33.03 | mindbendr | ok thanks |
| 23:33.11 | wethrin | Stevens, for example |
| 23:33.22 | wethrin | Which is quite large |
| 23:33.44 | wethrin | Douglas Comer: Computer Networks might be handy too |
| 23:35.48 | Discordian | there's the O'reilly one on networks, the crab book |
| 23:36.28 | mindbendr | I've read about tcp/ip but they usually cover tcp layers etc |
| 23:36.35 | mindbendr | none of them mentioned routing |
| 23:37.07 | Discordian | i learned tcp/ip back in the early 1990s from the crab book |
| 23:37.21 | Discordian | including routing |
| 23:37.26 | mindbendr | Discordian, i'll have a look |
| 23:38.57 | Discordian | if i can recall it's proper name i might find an ebook of it |
| 23:39.10 | mindbendr | i found oreillys tcp ip |
| 23:39.31 | mindbendr | it's got routing in the chapters, i wonder how much does it cover |
| 23:40.48 | Discordian | that's the one |
| 23:41.05 | mindbendr | why is using iptables not a good idea when it comes to routing? I thought it wouldn't be memory/performance efficient and if any of the iptable modules causes a problem, it'd be headache |
| 23:41.20 | wethrin | Because it's not the right tool for the job |
| 23:41.25 | Discordian | iptables isn't a routing thing |
| 23:41.27 | wethrin | And it'll quickly become unmaintainable |
| 23:41.45 | wethrin | It's a bit like replacing a bit of fuse wire with a nail |
| 23:42.03 | mindbendr | :D |
| 23:42.15 | mindbendr | would that cause a problem performance wise? |
| 23:42.18 | wethrin | it might do the trick, but it'll just cause pain |
| 23:42.23 | wethrin | Shouldn't do |
| 23:42.49 | Discordian | it's a nightmare though for ongoing maint |
| 23:42.58 | wethrin | If your computers are that old that routing bits will suck up too many CPU cycles, you need new computers |
| 23:43.02 | Discordian | as you've found out |
| 23:45.12 | mindbendr | no halloween for you guys? |
| 23:45.34 | wethrin | Can't stand the day, myself |
| 23:45.47 | Discordian | it's 23:45 and i loathe it |
| 23:46.02 | mindbendr | :D |
| 23:46.10 | mindbendr | i've never been in one |
| 23:46.19 | mindbendr | and preparing a costume is a big hussle |
| 23:46.29 | mindbendr | hassle |
| 23:46.51 | mindbendr | I just went to the shop and there were draculas everywhere, such a cliche |
| 23:50.45 | z00dax | mindbendr: you do know that 192.9.200.x isnt a private subnet, right ? |
| 23:50.57 | wethrin | z00dax: We've been over this :) |
| 23:51.06 | mindbendr | z00dax: yes :) |
| 23:51.16 | z00dax | ok, just wondering... i saw a bit of that, didnt read all of backlog |
| 23:51.21 | mindbendr | z00dax: that's why i go through this routing |
| 23:51.32 | mindbendr | z00dax: migrating the company to a private subnet |