| 02:08.24 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n219076246105.netvigator.com) |
| 04:08.36 | *** join/#gllug LeedsHK (n=richardc@awork064108.netvigator.com) |
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| 07:37.38 | j0nr | morning |
| 08:11.49 | morsing | flips_and_rails! |
| 08:11.52 | morsing | j0nr! |
| 08:11.56 | morsing | Leeds! |
| 08:27.00 | Provito | If everyone hasn't already ensure that any roundcube php application is fully patched as there's a severe application hole which can inject arbitrary scripting code |
| 08:27.21 | morsing | Provito! |
| 09:09.41 | morsing | Does anyone here know if there are laws stating when an invoice should be paid by? |
| 09:11.01 | *** join/#gllug nixofortune (n=egor@87.127.26.43) |
| 09:11.05 | morsing | nixofortune! |
| 09:11.58 | nixofortune | morsing: ! |
| 09:12.47 | morsing | nixofortune: Feeling better? |
| 09:12.50 | morsing | How's Era? |
| 09:13.53 | nixofortune | she's alright |
| 09:14.10 | nixofortune | I think she's at home today |
| 09:14.22 | Mohan | g! |
| 09:14.42 | Mohan | Good Morning! |
| 09:14.47 | morsing | Mohan! |
| 09:14.52 | nixofortune | monin |
| 09:14.53 | Mohan | morsing! |
| 09:16.03 | nixofortune | morsing: How is Sarah? |
| 09:16.18 | Mohan | morsing: Invoice payment depends upon the company which raises the invoice aint it? |
| 09:16.30 | morsing | Good I think - she's enjoying being back at college. It's only part time though |
| 09:16.57 | morsing | Mohan: So no legal rule? |
| 09:16.57 | Mohan | certain companies state in the invoice that it has to be paid with in certain no of days. |
| 09:17.16 | morsing | Mohan: Well I don't. Was never told I had to |
| 09:17.34 | nixofortune | nice. education made me a better person i hope. |
| 09:17.40 | morsing | Ok |
| 09:18.49 | morsing | wethrin: Where's Kitty? |
| 09:19.03 | Leeds | there's probably a reasonable expectation of something like 60-90 days as a limit |
| 09:19.23 | morsing | Leeds: :( |
| 09:20.43 | Mohan | In retail businesses certain companies gives products to retail outlets in 30 days credit. |
| 09:20.44 | morsing | Well, has been 45 days I think but my accountant has offered to send a letter threatening legal action. They did tell me I should get a solicitor to go forward abviously but they seemed to think 45 days is enough to do this |
| 09:21.01 | morsing | obviously |
| 09:21.11 | Leeds | I'd say 45 days is certainly enough for a strongly-worded reminder |
| 09:21.12 | Mohan | some of them dont do credit at all, and some of them just 15 days. |
| 09:21.27 | morsing | Leeds: I've been on the phone to them many times |
| 09:21.35 | Leeds | morsing: and their answer is? |
| 09:21.37 | Mohan | so it completely depends on the company which raises the invoice. |
| 09:21.42 | morsing | They're look into it |
| 09:22.00 | Leeds | have they accepted that they received the invoice? |
| 09:22.07 | morsing | Leeds: I've *always* had problems with these people. Every invoice they've moaned about and paid late |
| 09:22.27 | Leeds | then a) you might want to stop doing business with them and b) write some stronger terms |
| 09:22.29 | morsing | Oh yeah, they don't dispute having to pay it, they just always give me excuses |
| 09:23.06 | morsing | Leeds: I have stopped, November's invoice was my last to them. Also, it's not up to me as a contractor to decided who to do business with |
| 09:23.30 | Leeds | the alternative is to make it clear that you expect payment within, say, 30 days, or you will start charging heavy interest |
| 09:23.43 | Leeds | surely it's *exactly* up to you as a contractor? |
| 09:23.56 | morsing | "heavy" is probably specified by the government |
| 09:24.08 | morsing | Leeds: Not if I want to keep my job |
| 09:24.17 | Leeds | 2% per month or so would sound fair |
| 09:24.30 | Leeds | if you're a contractor, you have a contract instead of a job, don't you? |
| 09:24.31 | morsing | I've been told it's 8% pa |
| 09:24.35 | morsing | Yes |
| 09:24.48 | morsing | But I can't specify who the contract is with |
| 09:24.55 | Leeds | why not??? |
| 09:25.03 | Leeds | don't you sign the contract? |
| 09:25.09 | morsing | wtf?! Because it's just not up to me!?!? |
| 09:25.12 | morsing | I do |
| 09:25.19 | Leeds | then don't sign it |
| 09:25.23 | morsing | *sigh* |
| 09:25.26 | morsing | idiot |
| 09:26.24 | chillitom | lols a bit |
| 09:26.52 | morsing | points out to chillitom that Richard has never been a contractor |
| 09:27.04 | Leeds | what do you think I am now? |
| 09:27.12 | Leeds | who tells you to sign the contract? |
| 09:27.16 | chillitom | what's the contracting market like right now? |
| 09:27.20 | morsing | points out to chillitom that Richard has never been a contractor in the UK |
| 09:27.24 | morsing | chillitom: Dead |
| 09:27.33 | morsing | Leeds: The company I work for |
| 09:27.51 | chillitom | I'd been hoping to switch after this job but worried now that I may have to wait a few years. |
| 09:27.55 | Leeds | so you're not a contractor, you're an employee who does contract work |
| 09:28.01 | morsing | chillitom: You better wait |
| 09:28.06 | morsing | Leeds: Idiot |
| 09:28.07 | Leeds | do you have clients? or does your employer have clients? |
| 09:28.54 | chillitom | Leeds, me? |
| 09:29.04 | Leeds | chillitom: morsing, the prat |
| 09:29.47 | Leeds | chillitom: you are an employee, right? |
| 09:30.32 | chillitom | it's so convivial in here.. i love it |
| 09:31.51 | Leeds | chillitom: we all wonder what happened to morsing, who used to be a sane, friendly chap |
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| 10:34.06 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n058152138059.netvigator.com) |
| 10:41.40 | wethrin | hi Leeds |
| 10:43.33 | Mohan | Is there a way to list supported VGA frame buffers mode in feodra like the hwinfo command in suse ? |
| 10:43.58 | Leeds | evening wethrin |
| 10:47.04 | Provito | morsing, I normally send a polite chaser email after 1 month to a client who has an outstanding invoice and then follow up with a phone call to find out their situation. It could be that they are also awaiting payment, sometimes you need to be flexible and ensure everyone get's paid in the right order |
| 10:47.51 | Provito | if you state payment terms on an invoice you can charge interest for late payment however you may very well annoy your clients by doing this. I find the friendly approach a workable one currently |
| 10:48.56 | Provito | also a good tip is to always get an email confirmation that an invoice has been received this way they cannot raise the defence that the invoice had not been received. |
| 11:12.27 | morsing | Provito: Their paying me is irrelevant to their outstanding invoices. You're method is to soft in this situation as well, I've had multiple 20 minute arguments with them on the phone over the last month and several phone calls this year as well |
| 11:12.43 | morsing | Provito: Friendly doesn't do it with these people |
| 11:13.01 | morsing | They never deny recieving the invoice, they just won't pay |
| 11:13.29 | wethrin | morsing: https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp |
| 11:13.50 | morsing | Thanks :) |
| 11:14.22 | wethrin | It's polite to send them a FINAL REMINDER invoice before going through there, though |
| 11:14.39 | Provito | morsing if they are refusing to pay do they have a reason, incomplete specification or failure of funds? |
| 11:15.16 | morsing | They're not directly refusing to pay, just messing about not getting it done |
| 11:15.57 | Provito | ok when taking legal action you need to consider if you want to work with the client again, typically it's hard to re-build a relationship if you've gone down the legal route |
| 11:16.23 | morsing | I NEVER want to work with that agency again. Don't really want to work with the client either |
| 11:16.32 | wethrin | Frankly, if an agency or a client refuse to pay, I wouldn't want to work for them again |
| 11:16.37 | wethrin | Or rather, my rates would double |
| 11:16.58 | Provito | morsing ok, do you currently manage any of their servers, hosting or any other services which you could threaten to pull if payment isn't delivered within an agreed timescale? |
| 11:17.05 | morsing | Provito: They've cost me close to £500 in fees because I can't pay my bills beuse of their late payments |
| 11:17.12 | morsing | Provito: Huh!? No... |
| 11:17.21 | wethrin | That is worth claiming for, too |
| 11:17.39 | wethrin | You have a perfectly reasonable expectation of being paid in a timely manner |
| 11:17.41 | Provito | morsing, do you have an accountant? |
| 11:17.51 | morsing | Provito: Yes, of course |
| 11:18.14 | Provito | you can ask them on your behalf to call the client to speak to the managing director to find out the situation and tell them that additional charges are now due on the account |
| 11:18.27 | Provito | a 5 minute conversation should spook them to know that you are serious |
| 11:19.00 | morsing | Provito: My accountant have already offered to send a letter |
| 11:19.10 | wethrin | A phone call is more direct |
| 11:19.14 | wethrin | Followed up by a letter |
| 11:19.18 | Provito | I agree with wethrin |
| 11:19.31 | kraptv | Agreed. |
| 11:19.35 | morsing | No - letter is the way it's done. You'll have a record of what's being communicated |
| 11:19.43 | morsing | Phone calls--- |
| 11:19.49 | kraptv | do them in parallel. |
| 11:20.10 | kraptv | the call is to inform the letter. |
| 11:20.18 | kraptv | and to emphasize stuff. |
| 11:20.29 | Provito | at this stage I'd request the accountant to do a CHAPS payment immediately for the oustanding amount + fee incur. If they agree then you give them till close of play to pay, otherwise you threaten with legal action in the accountant letter |
| 11:20.50 | Provito | to make that clear, inform the accountant to tell them to make the CHAPS payment. |
| 11:20.52 | morsing | Provito: Huh?! Chaps where? |
| 11:21.04 | morsing | To my account? |
| 11:21.22 | Provito | CHAPS is an instant same day transaction before 4pm, BACS typically takes 3 days unless it's covered under the instant payment amount and the bank is a clearing one |
| 11:21.44 | Provito | morsing the accountant asks your client to settle the bill by CHAPS immediately, otherwise further action will be taken |
| 11:22.14 | morsing | Ok |
| 11:22.32 | Provito | if you go down the letter route they will pass straight to their solicitors and the payment could take ages to come through, legal should be avoided and only used as a last resort |
| 11:22.48 | ChoHag | That looks like PPP authentication. |
| 11:22.54 | Provito | ChoHag, you geek |
| 11:22.57 | Provito | ChoHag, :) |
| 11:23.29 | wethrin | Things can often get sorted out far quicker with a phone call |
| 11:23.35 | morsing | Provito: They won't go down the legal route. They know they would lose out |
| 11:24.11 | Provito | so they will pay by CHAPS today then, try it and let us know how you get on, if they do it now it should be paid before 16:00 |
| 11:24.24 | morsing | They won't |
| 11:24.33 | morsing | They'll drag it out as far as they can |
| 11:24.50 | Provito | ok well apply the statutory interest daily then, let me find the documentation |
| 11:25.14 | morsing | Provito: We're back to my original question now - thanks. Only took three hours :) |
| 11:25.56 | Provito | 8 % or maximum statutory interest rate may be charged for late payment in accordance with The Late Payment ofCommercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998. Late payment fees may be charged in accordance with The Late Payment of Commercial Debts Regulations 2002 |
| 11:26.05 | Provito | there is the legal information you need |
| 11:26.10 | morsing | And late payment is? |
| 11:26.26 | Provito | terms agreed on initiation of contract even if it is verbally |
| 11:26.33 | morsing | Nothing agreed |
| 11:27.01 | wethrin | Are there no statutory payment terms? |
| 11:27.01 | Provito | let me check it out, it could be up to 90 days I believe |
| 11:27.56 | Provito | I go with 28 days unless I have agreed payment terms with the client to extend to fit in with their accounting |
| 11:28.25 | wethrin | 30 days is common, isn't it? |
| 11:28.57 | Provito | ok I've got an accounting advice line, I'll find the number and give them a call |
| 11:34.05 | Provito | http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?r.l1=1073858790&r.l3=1074002362&r.lc=en&type=RESOURCES&itemId=1073792169&r.l2=1074453392&r.s=sc |
| 11:34.11 | Provito | Where there is neither an agreement in place nor custom and practice in operation, the law sets a default period of 30 days. |
| 11:34.15 | Provito | there we go |
| 11:34.30 | morsing | Cool! |
| 11:34.35 | morsing | kisses Provito |
| 11:35.27 | Provito | morsing good luck with your situation I feel for you, it is frustrating chasing invoices |
| 11:35.44 | ChoHag | You see, morsing, now that's the sort of thing that makes people not want to help you. |
| 11:42.11 | ChoHag | Should I work on nagios, which needs to be ready by Thursday, or mess around with virtual machines? |
| 11:48.19 | wethrin | Yes |
| 11:56.43 | ChoHag | I seep |
| 11:56.44 | ChoHag | I see. |
| 11:57.03 | ChoHag | How well does memtest86 play with >4GB RAM? |
| 11:58.51 | wethrin | Try it and see :) |
| 11:58.52 | z00dax | you need a fairly recent version, works fine |
| 11:58.57 | wethrin | or JFGI :) |
| 11:59.06 | z00dax | if you can get a x86_64 build, that helps too |
| 11:59.19 | z00dax | but is not really required, since it knows PAE, and will turn it on if required |
| 11:59.23 | ChoHag | I am giggling it. |
| 12:00.48 | ChoHag | Hmm is 86 or 86+ preferable? |
| 12:05.48 | *** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 12:56.14 | morsing | Beer |
| 12:58.53 | morsing | 24 people watching my CD player - is that a lot? |
| 13:04.53 | ChoHag | It is if it doesn't have a screen. |
| 13:07.04 | kraptv | morsing: shut your window of the ground floor flat. |
| 13:09.04 | kraptv | they should be going back to work anyways. |
| 13:09.26 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 13:56.39 | kjs | yo |
| 14:27.39 | *** join/#gllug popey (n=alan@ubuntu/member/popey) |
| 14:28.21 | popey | I have a couple of spare tickets to go and see a BBC Radio 4 Comedy show recording tonight (doors open 6:15pm) called "Recorded For Training Purposes", free to a good home. |
| 14:28.22 | kjs | popey! |
| 14:28.37 | popey | kjs! |
| 14:29.33 | morsing | dick_turpin! |
| 14:29.35 | morsing | popey! |
| 14:29.49 | morsing | ChoHag: ? |
| 14:29.51 | morsing | kraptv: ? |
| 14:35.45 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin1 (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 14:36.51 | morsing | dick_turpin1! |
| 14:37.06 | dick_turpin1 | rotfl |
| 14:42.46 | *** part/#gllug dick_turpin1 (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 14:43.41 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin1 (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 14:43.54 | *** part/#gllug dick_turpin1 (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 14:52.22 | nixofortune | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:52.26 | nixofortune | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:54.31 | boudiccas | nixofortune; i've used dd-rescue in anger for real and it was able to copy a h/d for me with no problems. is this cd in a laptop or a desktop box? |
| 14:54.49 | boudiccas | either way it sounds like its struggling and may have frozen |
| 14:55.11 | nixofortune | it'c cd on the desktop |
| 14:55.45 | nixofortune | it looks ok cd is spinning, and it gives me all sort of errors in terminal |
| 14:55.54 | nixofortune | but so slow |
| 14:56.22 | boudiccas | i reckon that it struggling to read the cd |
| 14:58.23 | nixofortune | morsing: /query window morsing |
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| 15:36.24 | ChoHag | Why do you 'start' a domain to power up a virtual box, but 'destroy' it to turn it off? |
| 16:23.40 | kjs | christ how do i turn off this damn system beep in vmware? |
| 16:24.37 | kjs | apart from screw drivering the speaker |
| 16:27.27 | nixofortune | kjs: you can always turn off your hearing aid :) |
| 16:30.00 | kjs | turns music up |
| 17:08.38 | Leeds | well, just booked an emergency flight to the UK... for my grandfather's funeral |
| 17:11.55 | z00dax | Leeds: oh no! sorry to head |
| 17:11.57 | z00dax | hear! |
| 17:12.13 | Leeds | he died on the golf course this afternoon... |
| 17:12.27 | z00dax | on the course ? |
| 17:12.58 | Leeds | yup, had a heart attack |
| 17:13.00 | z00dax | I am guessing it was due to natural causes |
| 17:13.46 | Leeds | I think being a life-long smoker and drinker and on the golf course in his mid-80s had a lot to do with it |
| 17:14.56 | z00dax | I am guessing he liked the game, in which case, there might have been worse places to move on |
| 17:15.07 | Leeds | 100% true - it's where he wanted to go |
| 17:15.58 | Leeds | apparently my mum and aunt (his only children) were at the clubhouse having a coffee - the last time they saw him, he made a silly face at them through the clubhouse window, then went off to play :-) |
| 17:36.30 | wethrin | Eek. Sorry to hear that, Leeds :( |
| 17:36.40 | Leeds | thanks |
| 17:40.04 | ChoHag | I don't know. I think it's how I'd like to go. |
| 17:40.51 | ChoHag | Pull a silly face to your friends and then croak while playing a pointless game. |
| 17:40.59 | ChoHag | And no that's not sarcastic. |
| 17:48.21 | Leeds | I believe you |
| 17:49.03 | ChoHag | Also, what's best practice for accessing 'private' data from servers hosted in the dmz? |
| 17:49.28 | wethrin | ssh? |
| 17:50.06 | ChoHag | I read lots of articles which in one breath say never to allow a connection to be initiated from the dmz to the lan and yet to forward email from the dmz server to the lan server. |
| 18:00.49 | *** join/#gllug mindbendr (n=run@94-194-128-38.zone8.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:01.02 | mindbendr | hi |
| 18:03.05 | mindbendr | what's the reason behind having i386 packages on x64 distro any idea? |
| 18:05.05 | wethrin | maybe the packages aren't available for 64-bit |
| 18:05.46 | mindbendr | on centos5, it provides i386 and x64 versions both |
| 18:05.56 | mindbendr | on the x64 source |
| 18:09.54 | mindbendr | for PAM, it has got both in http://mirror.centos.org/centos/5/os/x86_64/CentOS/ |
| 18:10.02 | mindbendr | may be z00dax can explain :) |
| 18:13.10 | *** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild) |
| 19:55.22 | kjs | mindbendr: for running 32bit apps on a 64bit system |
| 19:55.44 | kjs | For this to work, some 32bit packages are required, vmware for example |
| 20:02.46 | hali | java 1.4 is another |
| 20:02.52 | hali | firefox |
| 20:03.02 | hali | etc |
| 20:06.43 | mindbendr | so would you need PAM x386 package for that? |
| 20:06.50 | mindbendr | *i386 |
| 20:07.36 | mindbendr | i'm just wondering how would removing pam i386 affect the system? |
| 20:15.41 | morsing | catalyst! |
| 20:20.59 | ChoHag | Whoever thought bringint a tree inside your house every year was a good idea is an idiot. |
| 20:24.47 | *** join/#gllug j0nr (n=j0nr@5acc9dcf.bb.sky.com) |
| 20:28.37 | morsing | j0nr! |
| 20:28.57 | j0nr | boo |
| 21:00.05 | kjs | yo |
| 21:00.12 | morsing | Beer |
| 21:00.19 | kjs | 24 |
| 21:23.24 | kjs | mindbendr: does it work atm? are you running 32bit pam? |
| 21:23.53 | kjs | you can tell yum to install x86_64 iirc |
| 21:24.02 | kjs | unless you specify .i386 |
| 21:39.45 | *** join/#gllug j0nr_ (n=j0nr@5acc9dcf.bb.sky.com) |
| 21:40.35 | morsing | j0nr_! |
| 21:46.21 | j0nr | argh rename command is telling me the files i am trying to rename already exist?? bt how can they until i have renamed them? |
| 21:46.25 | j0nr | i do rename 'y/A-Z/a-z/' *.FILE |
| 21:46.29 | j0nr | and i get FILE.FILE not renamed: file.file already exists.... but it doesnt! |
| 22:11.32 | wethrin | y/ ? |
| 22:14.36 | mindbendr | kjs, i don't but it's been shipped with the distro so I was wondering does the OS have any dependency to the 32bit packages by any chance, not specificly PAM because there are loads of them |
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| 23:22.13 | morsing | chillitom_! |
| 23:41.56 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n058152138059.netvigator.com) |
| 23:42.22 | morsing | Leeds! |
| 23:42.26 | morsing | G'night |
| 23:55.23 | z00dax | mindbendr: quite a lot of people exclude the i386 packages at install time, so get a x86_64 only install, depending on your requirements, that might be a good idea |