00:01.59 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n219079208127.netvigator.com) |
00:23.54 | *** join/#gllug an0key (n=luke@82-34-223-29.cable.ubr01.sout.blueyonder.co.uk) |
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04:13.20 | morsing | Leeds: How do I get a pound sign in pssh? |
04:13.43 | morsing | an0key: Cawfy |
04:16.56 | an0key | morsing: pepsi max |
05:44.55 | an0key | anyone managed to get a touchterm ssh key to work? |
05:55.03 | Leeds | an0key: diet coke |
06:00.20 | an0key | diet pepsi is the choice, but the m&s garage failed |
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08:23.05 | morsing | bilarh! |
08:23.13 | morsing | rhowe! |
08:40.41 | Leeds | I'm falling asleep at my desk again - must be late afternoon |
08:51.29 | j0nr | morning all |
08:51.57 | morsing | j0nr! |
08:58.00 | bilarh | morsing |
08:58.32 | bilarh | got my ecu in the end |
08:58.41 | bilarh | re yesterdays paypal question :) |
09:00.50 | Mohan | Morning All. |
09:01.31 | Mohan | morsing! |
09:06.33 | morsing | Mohan! |
09:06.41 | morsing | bilarh: Congrats :) |
09:17.50 | bilarh | shit, starbucks profits down 69% in last quarter, 6700 jobs cut |
09:17.57 | bilarh | wtf where am i going to get my latte now? |
09:19.32 | an0key | bilarh: somewhere that does decent coffee? |
09:28.52 | bilarh | well, everyone says that |
09:28.56 | bilarh | but i actually quite like starbucks |
09:29.05 | bilarh | possibly as a concept more than anything else |
09:29.16 | bilarh | i'm easily influenced by advertising :) |
09:34.14 | Mohan | bilarh: nero cofee tastes good as well. |
09:34.58 | morsing | Starbucks cawfy is rubbish |
09:35.12 | morsing | And no-one beats Costa |
09:35.39 | morsing | Nero-- Staff too rude and cawfy only decent |
09:37.03 | an0key | I like sitting in a coffee shop, usually starbucks as they are everywhere, but no-one beats the coffee from the guy in st katherines dock, omnomnom |
09:45.52 | AndyMillar | nero is shit :( |
09:46.09 | AndyMillar | i've stopped drinking starbucks though |
09:46.23 | AndyMillar | as 5 venti (warm) mochas a day wasn't good for my health |
09:48.59 | bilarh | andymillar: 5 venti mochas *jesus* |
09:49.05 | bilarh | they're like 400 calories each or something :D |
09:55.18 | cpufreak | ehh |
09:55.20 | cpufreak | thats nothing |
09:55.30 | cpufreak | I used to get through more |
09:55.42 | cpufreak | and that discounted starbucks at betfair was dangerous |
09:55.56 | bilarh | hmm it was |
09:56.03 | cpufreak | http://www.run-riot.com/node/%202185 |
09:56.06 | cpufreak | everyone must attend! |
09:56.11 | cpufreak | sister's band is touring to london |
09:56.22 | bilarh | i mean i get through way more coffee, but not full on mochas |
10:06.16 | ChoHag | I've had my 19" monitor taken away. |
10:06.45 | ChoHag | It was sitting on the side unused for 2 weeks so I replaced one of my 15"s with it and it got taken away either last night or this morning. |
10:07.15 | ChoHag | Also they decided they had to turn my PC off in order to do it for some reason. |
10:12.14 | ChoHag | Hmm seems the DBAs may be designing the new SAN after all and not me. |
10:14.07 | ChoHag | Also I think they've pretty much decided to go with EMC without even considering other offers. |
10:15.21 | bilarh | chohag: keep repeating "it pays the bills" |
10:15.24 | bilarh | i find it helps sometimes |
10:15.32 | ChoHag | Heh. |
10:16.02 | ChoHag | Well the only reason I could find for not looking elsewhere was that I'd play a major part in installing the new SAN. |
10:16.05 | ChoHag | So fuck 'em. |
10:18.00 | wethrin | reads up a bit. I disagree with morsing - I've found Nero's staff to be quite friendly. I suppose it depends on which branch you visit |
10:18.34 | wethrin | ChoHag: Get a new job! |
10:19.00 | an0key | bilarh: I had to chant that for 12hrs last night :P |
10:19.16 | ChoHag | Wtf? Devs and test have access to live data. The company is becoming more aware of the data protection act so I raised this issue again and the response was "I have introduced Daniel Khan to a an external company that will provide |
10:19.20 | ChoHag | him with a tool that allows data encryption." |
10:19.45 | wethrin | Errrrrrrrr |
10:20.02 | wethrin | If I say "pgp/gpg", can I get £2000 from your company? |
10:20.04 | ChoHag | Daniel Khan being the test team lead. |
10:20.12 | ChoHag | Haha. No. |
10:20.15 | wethrin | Oh |
10:20.19 | wethrin | Then I won't bother |
10:20.25 | ChoHag | You'd have to call it something else and charge at least £20,000. |
10:20.25 | bilarh | an0key: i might print a sign with it and stick it on a frame on my desk :) |
10:20.54 | an0key | hahaha i was thinking more, every 20 minutes or so it scrolls across our big lcd's on the wall :P |
10:20.55 | bilarh | chohag: connect direct? :D |
10:21.11 | bilarh | an0key: ah yeah, that idea is even better :D |
10:21.12 | wethrin | ChoHag: For £20k, I'll mount an encrypted loopback filesystem |
10:21.24 | ChoHag | Ooh now that's fancy. |
10:21.24 | bilarh | wethrin: too complicated for 20k |
10:21.43 | bilarh | wethrin: what you need to give them for 20k is rot-13, so that the managers can understand it |
10:21.43 | ChoHag | Yeah. That's easily surpassed 6 figures. |
10:21.53 | wethrin | bilarh: Double-ROT13? |
10:22.02 | ChoHag | Double-RAT26. |
10:22.03 | ChoHag | ROT |
10:22.09 | wethrin | is so glad he's not in IT |
10:22.10 | bilarh | do triple for extra protection |
10:22.15 | bilarh | 3-ROT13 :) |
10:22.20 | bilarh | it's dire sometimes |
10:22.23 | bilarh | it can be great as well, though |
10:22.43 | bilarh | i've just had an argument with someone who wants me to keep an up to date rpm of something |
10:22.46 | ChoHag | Bah I've got my email going again after over a month and there's nothing in linuxjobs. |
10:22.48 | bilarh | but he wont give me the source code for his changes |
10:22.51 | bilarh | just the binaries :D |
10:23.33 | wethrin | monster.com :) |
10:25.31 | an0key | wethrin: they distribute everything but your CV ;) |
10:25.43 | wethrin | Bah |
10:26.27 | ChoHag | ? |
10:26.58 | morsing | ! |
10:28.08 | ChoHag | Aah it's cargo-cult computing. |
10:28.14 | wethrin | Hm? |
10:28.28 | ChoHag | "I've never had a problem with our [EMC] SAN." |
10:28.47 | wethrin | Is there an issue with EMC? |
10:28.52 | ChoHag | Just age. |
10:29.08 | ChoHag | But if it's being replaced alternatives should be considered. |
10:29.19 | an0key | +1 for Netapp... |
10:29.28 | wethrin | Well, if you know one particular brand works, it's often easier to keep to the same one |
10:29.56 | cpufreak | ChoHag: do you want a SAN, or a NAS to replace it with? |
10:29.59 | bilarh | is with wethrin, within limit |
10:30.00 | bilarh | s |
10:30.02 | ChoHag | SAN |
10:30.12 | cpufreak | if san, look at hitachi |
10:35.10 | ChoHag | There are so many models of Sun server. |
10:38.56 | cpufreak | there's only a couple worth buying though |
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11:03.48 | ChoHag | On the monitor thing, we have just received two wide 32" screens to display charts and things which nobody will look at. |
11:04.04 | ChoHag | Sorry, I should say "two more" because we already have two. |
11:04.13 | ChoHag | And the network team have two of their own. |
11:04.35 | ChoHag | And the devs for some utterly dumb reason have two too. |
11:05.10 | wethrin | So you need one too |
11:06.25 | ChoHag | Ah but if I had a big monitor everyone else would want one too. |
11:06.41 | wethrin | Yes..... |
11:07.32 | antiphase | Want != Get |
11:08.25 | ChoHag | And Need != Get, so "would actually find really bloody useful" != Get also. |
11:08.54 | ChoHag | Though "Waste of time, money and space" double-plus == Get |
11:09.57 | wethrin | So tell them you don't need one |
11:10.54 | ChoHag | They are figuring out (after buying them) how to plug them in in the corner they will go. |
11:11.27 | ChoHag | wall-port -> phone -> hub -> desktop & wallboard PC was proposed. |
11:19.24 | wethrin | Ha. Piss Poor Planning, etc. |
11:20.46 | ChoHag | Planning? |
11:21.00 | ChoHag | They just bought the shiny toys and didn't think beyond that. |
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11:21.36 | kraptv | NetApp is SAN too, though... |
11:21.43 | Mohan | morsing: poor administration and waste of resources. |
11:21.50 | Mohan | oops |
11:22.54 | Mohan | all these widescreen for graph monitoring its a waste |
11:23.15 | Mohan | provided if you have a properly configured snmp monitoring system |
11:23.51 | bilarh | it's quite interesting to look at sometimes |
11:23.56 | bilarh | and it looks "techy" :) |
11:23.59 | kraptv | Mohan: USB tv tuner == higher job satisfaction when the boss aint' looking! |
11:24.28 | Mohan | kraptv: i have a usb tv tuner but couldnt get it working with mythtv :( |
11:25.19 | Mohan | its like show off, they monitor cisco switches and firewall in widescreen |
11:25.41 | Mohan | what it would show is red or green light for every port |
11:25.56 | ChoHag | kraptv: No. NetApp uses NFS. |
11:26.03 | ChoHag | Our DBA says so so it must be true. |
11:26.19 | kraptv | ChoHag: augh! |
11:26.30 | wethrin | Doesn't NetApp use some slight bastardisation of NFS? |
11:26.50 | kraptv | No. They follow the standard very closely... |
11:27.06 | ChoHag | So they use some slight bastardisation of NFS then. |
11:27.07 | kraptv | And were very involved in doing NFSv4 the right way. :-) |
11:27.43 | kraptv | I will confess one thing: I work for NetApp. |
11:27.58 | wethrin | So you sat on the meetings, and then ignored what Sun said? :) |
11:28.08 | kraptv | I was a NetApp user at my previous job and was very happy, so I came to work for them.. |
11:28.24 | ChoHag | kraptv: Got spare jobs? |
11:28.27 | kraptv | wethrin: no, we took notes, lots and lots of notes.. ;-) |
11:28.45 | kraptv | ChoHag: perhaps, check on the website! |
11:31.09 | kraptv | but anyways... there are lots of good products out there.... I don't want to be the vendor dude that says "MINE MINE MINE" ... but there are a lot of cool features especially for oracle on NetApp. |
11:31.27 | kraptv | So I shall go silent in one minute (for a while at least!) |
11:31.40 | mindbendr | kraptv: I was saying a few days ago, which animation company did you work for? |
11:31.50 | kraptv | mindbendr: LAIKA |
11:31.50 | ChoHag | kraptv: You missed it. The DBAs are choosing the SAN because they clearly understand the technology. |
11:32.00 | ChoHag | Although they can't grasp the purpose of /etc/init.d |
11:32.01 | mindbendr | kraptv: are they based in UK? |
11:32.06 | kraptv | ChoHag: oh, ugh DBA egos? |
11:32.13 | kraptv | mindbendr: nope! USA. |
11:32.21 | mindbendr | kraptv: was it one of the big ones? |
11:32.24 | kraptv | mindbendr: check out www.coraline.com |
11:32.39 | kraptv | That's the film that's coming out next week in the states (who knows in the UK!) |
11:33.36 | ChoHag | This place is full of egos. |
11:34.40 | ChoHag | The network team want to control everything despite understanding nothing. The devs think they need access to every system we have. |
11:34.59 | ChoHag | Test are spending money on shit products hand over fist because they have a new team lead. |
11:35.27 | mindbendr | kraptv: I worked as a 3d animation artist in TV industry but now I work as a sysadmin and I'll have a degree for 3d animation next year. So I was thinking about to work for the animation studios. Once I interviewed with one of them about a sysadmin job and they asked me whether do I know about rigging in animation. How would being experienced affect a career in that kind of job? |
11:36.19 | mindbendr | kraptv: do you think if I were to work in such a job, my 3d skills would become handy beside the sysadmin skills? Considering that they use linux servers for Maya and perl,python scripting etc |
11:36.22 | kraptv | mindbendr: It would be positive in that area. Any insight into a business process as an IT person is a very valuable thing. |
11:36.42 | mindbendr | kraptv: but does that stay as an insight? |
11:36.55 | kraptv | for smaller shops, it would be amazing as they could use you for small tasks and then do IT behind. |
11:37.16 | kraptv | you end up making better choices for them because you can look at new stuff and say "this would work really well for this scenario" |
11:37.17 | mindbendr | I was thinking about the large studios |
11:37.27 | kraptv | large studios, it depends. |
11:37.37 | kraptv | If you were closer to the users, it might work very well. |
11:37.46 | kraptv | If you were doing some pipeline maintenance, it would work very well. |
11:37.53 | kraptv | if you were doing network administration, not so much. |
11:37.59 | mindbendr | have you seen anyone doing that kinda work? |
11:38.04 | mindbendr | that has got experience on both |
11:38.19 | wethrin | I would guess that the more you know about an industry, the more likely it is you'd be hired there |
11:38.34 | mindbendr | wethrin: yeah but it's completely different jobs |
11:38.35 | kraptv | mindbendr: Hmm, for pipeline development, absolutely. |
11:38.42 | kraptv | and there's money in pipeline dev. |
11:38.57 | kraptv | there's more money in pipeline than there is in IT for animation. |
11:39.05 | mindbendr | kraptv: about pipeline development, what do you mean exactly? interacting different systems with each other? |
11:39.12 | mindbendr | kraptv: i'm not keen about being a developer though |
11:39.24 | kraptv | mindbendr: asset management systems for cartoon production. |
11:39.34 | ChoHag | There's a difference between developing and writing scripts. |
11:39.44 | mindbendr | kraptv: so it would be development? |
11:39.49 | kraptv | how does the modeler pass to the rigger pass to layout pass to animation pass to ligthing/textures pass to vfx pass to compositing and back and forth. |
11:39.51 | ChoHag | Though being able to do one will tend to help the other. |
11:40.09 | kraptv | It's not really programming for most skills, it's basically figuring out conventions of filenames, directory structure, and how to do it in an efficient fashion. |
11:40.10 | mindbendr | kraptv: I thought they use commercial asset management systems for that |
11:40.35 | kraptv | mindbendr: typically studios will buy a package and then need to tweak it or implement it for their business process. |
11:40.50 | kraptv | ANd they're often changing out their render batch queueing software... |
11:41.11 | mindbendr | kraptv: so would you say it's a good thing not to leave my 3d skills aside |
11:41.11 | kraptv | I can talk more about this sometime, but I really need to get on the tube. |
11:41.21 | mindbendr | kraptv: ok thanks |
11:41.23 | kraptv | mindbendr: are your 3d skills a fun thing to have? |
11:41.28 | kraptv | if it's fun, keep it up. |
11:41.38 | kraptv | play with blender, too! |
11:41.43 | mindbendr | kraptv: they are but you have to keep building them up all the time, it's not like sysadmin :) |
11:41.51 | mindbendr | kraptv: it's kinda artistic in the end |
11:43.11 | kraptv | mindbendr: not like sysadmin? what are you, some sort of geezer Tru64 admin? |
11:43.24 | kraptv | or an AIX admin that says "beer" on IRC all day? |
11:43.28 | kraptv | (just kidding) |
11:43.46 | mindbendr | kraptv: what i meant was, the industry is young so it has got a fast face and tendency to change so fast |
11:43.58 | mindbendr | *fast pace |
11:44.03 | kraptv | you would be surprised, if you understand key fundamentals, you'll be fine... |
11:44.15 | kraptv | also, do you know compositing? |
11:44.18 | mindbendr | kraptv: well I spent ~10 years on animation |
11:44.34 | mindbendr | kraptv: yeah I've got experience on SGI Flint (IRIX) |
11:44.36 | kraptv | what are you doing now for work? |
11:44.42 | mindbendr | linux sysadmin |
11:44.42 | kraptv | Flint, sweet. :-) |
11:45.33 | mindbendr | kraptv: I'd like to talk about it when you've got time :) |
11:45.52 | mindbendr | kraptv: this really messes my mind all the time |
12:04.59 | mindbendr | is it not possible to set virtual IP addresses on FreeBSD to an interface as we can do on linux? |
12:07.25 | ChoHag | I find that highly unlikely. |
12:10.08 | mindbendr | yeah me too |
12:10.13 | mindbendr | found it though |
12:10.39 | mindbendr | putting the word `alias` do the work, you don't create a virtual interface like eth0:1 though |
12:10.58 | ChoHag | You don't do that in Linux any more either. |
12:11.02 | mindbendr | no? |
12:11.04 | mindbendr | why not |
12:11.05 | ChoHag | Though you can if you want to. |
12:11.16 | ChoHag | Aliases are cleaner and easier. |
12:11.20 | mindbendr | I see |
12:11.25 | ChoHag | Or whatever they're called. |
12:11.27 | mindbendr | is it something announced? |
12:11.33 | ChoHag | shrugs |
12:11.49 | ChoHag | Probably not. Linux devs don't go in for announcements they just do stuff. |
12:11.52 | mindbendr | like we are going to deprecate it |
12:13.36 | ChoHag | shrugs |
12:14.25 | wethrin | ifconfig en0 alias inet x.x.x.x |
12:14.30 | wethrin | is the correct thing in FreeBSD |
12:15.00 | wethrin | Yes. Linux devs don't announce things. They just do stuff, and expect other people to somehow find out what they've done |
12:17.10 | mindbendr | are you serious or just kidding? :) |
12:17.30 | ChoHag | Yes. |
12:29.20 | kjs | afternoon |
12:44.17 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
12:44.57 | bilarh | yo dick |
12:45.29 | dick_turpin | bilarh: Me old mucker |
12:49.26 | bilarh | dick_turpin: hey are you an "uphill gardener"? |
12:51.30 | dick_turpin | bilarh: How much money you offering? |
12:52.09 | bilarh | i'll see what i can find down the back of the sofa |
12:53.15 | dick_turpin | bilarh: Sod off I'm hiding there |
12:54.59 | dick_turpin | wethrin: Want today's story? AKA thick sysadmin |
12:55.23 | wethrin | Yes! |
12:55.42 | wethrin | Are you allowed to share it with others here? |
12:56.06 | bilarh | i want it too |
12:56.10 | bilarh | so i bloody hope so |
12:56.20 | dick_turpin | wethrin: Email: "Hi Pete, you know them battery type things on the Motherboard are they special or will any old battery do?" |
12:56.32 | wethrin | oh dear |
12:56.44 | wethrin | The battery that says "CR2032" in large letters on it? |
12:57.26 | dick_turpin | wethrin: Me: "Ah they are called CMOS batteries, they are a bit special I have some £11.00 each will that be OK?" |
12:57.49 | wethrin | :) |
12:58.04 | dick_turpin | wethrin: Email: Yes fine can I collect? I'd better take two just in case" |
12:58.15 | wethrin | Hey. At least you make a profit on them |
12:58.29 | wethrin | taking advantage of stupid people++ # it's so easy |
12:58.37 | dick_turpin | wethrin: Even more so seeing as they are out of dead machines :-D |
12:58.41 | wethrin | And as a salesperson, you wouldn't have moral issues :) |
12:58.44 | wethrin | heh |
12:58.51 | bilarh | dick_turpin: i'm shocked :) |
12:59.18 | dick_turpin | bilarh: wethrin and I aren't |
13:00.03 | wethrin | I keep forgetting that people can be this stupid |
13:00.44 | dick_turpin | wethrin: I never forget, I cant, I get reminded every day and on some days every hour |
13:01.55 | dick_turpin | wethrin: Had a girl ring yesterday "We need a new TFT but not one with those blue blocks they dont fit we need a kettle lead one" |
13:02.07 | wethrin | Waaa |
13:02.18 | wethrin | So hide the power supply under the desk... |
13:02.39 | dick_turpin | "but the blue block is the VGA connection you will need that! |
13:03.39 | antiphase | Kill all people that refer to female IEC C13 connectors as "kettle leads" |
13:03.42 | wethrin | Oh. |
13:03.49 | antiphase | KILL, I SAY! |
13:03.49 | wethrin | Kettle leads have a notch in them |
13:04.01 | wethrin | But everyone knows what you're talking about if you ask for a kettle lead |
13:04.26 | antiphase | So I plug in the server, go to make a cup of tea, and some fucker has stolen the lead |
13:04.55 | wethrin | So the fact it was plugged in makes no difference to them? |
13:06.33 | dick_turpin | Me thinks (But don't quote me) she was/is trying to stick the power lead in the VGA port on the TFT. Ka-boom methinks |
13:06.53 | dick_turpin | antiphase: Rotflmao |
13:06.54 | wethrin | Some people are too stupid to own a computer |
13:07.44 | dick_turpin | wethrin: Nothing ceases to surprise me anymore |
13:11.12 | dick_turpin | wethrin: Ooh forgot to tell you I've sold another one of those quality solution Web Proxy boxes |
13:11.27 | bilarh | things are back to normal now, i'm getting spam again :D |
13:11.40 | bilarh | atleast somebody cares enough to email me :D |
13:11.50 | dick_turpin | bilarh: Huzzah! Youve taken me off your black list then? |
13:11.57 | bilarh | yeo |
13:15.06 | wethrin | dick_turpin: Oh dear.... |
13:16.02 | dick_turpin | wethrin: It is a bit, I've gotta supply a machine that actually looks like a server so I may have to spend £75 instead of £65 I'm gutted |
13:16.54 | wethrin | ohdear |
13:18.27 | wethrin | wonders how many people will start picking on jt@camalyn.org again |
13:19.15 | dick_turpin | antiphase: talking of lead theft, (I think I've told this before) had a customer ring a couple of years back "We cant log on" OK reboot the server. 10 mins later "The servers gone someones pinched it!" That'll explain it then |
13:19.27 | antiphase | Heh |
13:19.32 | wethrin | He didn't put a salary down. Only said "phose me about it" |
13:20.03 | dick_turpin | antiphase: Ah but it was in a windowless basement, inside job methinks |
13:21.32 | dick_turpin | wethrin: "phose me"? is that his typo or yours? |
13:22.05 | wethrin | Mine |
13:22.12 | dick_turpin | Pity |
13:22.26 | wethrin | Actually, lies. Email me, he said |
13:23.40 | dick_turpin | Seeing as that link is an email address I don't have the foggiest what you're on about, dick_turpin nods like a TV interviewer. |
13:27.06 | dick_turpin | Rotflmao. The CMOS man has just emailed me again, I bet you lot didn't know clearing the event logs fixes the problem! lol |
13:27.30 | antiphase | I bet they had to cut him out of a big wafer |
13:28.05 | dick_turpin | antiphase: I await the next email with baited breath |
13:28.08 | wethrin | Well no. Because you said the problem was a flat cMOS battery |
13:28.38 | antiphase | bated innit |
13:28.44 | antiphase | Bait is what fishermen use |
13:28.45 | dick_turpin | wethrin: Mate its like that old joke about the bloke who takes his car to the garage |
13:28.53 | dick_turpin | antiphase: Oops sorry |
13:29.02 | antiphase | Apology accepted :P |
13:29.33 | dick_turpin | "Scuse me guvnor me cars makes a right noise but if I turn the stereo up it goes away any ideas?" |
13:29.41 | dick_turpin | car |
13:33.02 | kraptv | how many of you go to the tottenham court computer fair? (the one that is every weekend in the basement of a nearby hotel) |
13:34.43 | wethrin | Is it not in the basement of the Windeyer Building? |
13:34.44 | kraptv | netsplit? |
13:34.52 | wethrin | Which isn't a hotel. It's a UCL building |
13:34.54 | kraptv | I forget exactly. |
13:35.46 | kraptv | but you know what I am talking about... is there anything better as far as deals on random computer bits g?? |
13:36.37 | wethrin | They're handy if you want cheap stuff quickly. I wouldn't necessarily buy stuff that I wanted to be reliable from there, though |
13:37.09 | kraptv | Well, of course not. |
13:37.41 | kraptv | Is there any place in the London area that actually has surplus electronics/mechanical things/weird stuff for sale? |
13:38.07 | wethrin | Probably |
13:38.27 | dick_turpin | I can sell you bilarh he's weird |
13:39.10 | kraptv | Your answer gives me great hope. :-/ |
13:39.48 | kraptv | I was impressed by some of the used P4s available at the fair.... only 45 quid for an IBM slim 2.8ghz workstation, not bad.. |
13:40.12 | wethrin | I'm sure there is, but I don't know where. Asking someone like Chris Bell is more likely to get you a correct answer |
13:41.55 | kraptv | Well, then, hey wethrin, can you go get Chis Bell for me? |
13:42.08 | wethrin | Search the mailing list archives :) |
13:42.17 | wethrin | chris@overview.demon.co.uk, IIRC |
13:44.31 | wethrin | dick_turpin: If you want stupidity: http://notalwaysright.com/do-we-sell-stupidity-indicators/1482 |
13:45.32 | dick_turpin | wethrin: Now thats funny |
13:47.21 | dick_turpin | dick_turpin: has a pervy thought as to what she may used the toothbrush to clean |
13:51.34 | ChoHag | That would surely hurt. |
13:52.50 | dick_turpin | Please don't encourage me ;-) |
13:55.44 | kraptv | Is demon internet basically on life-support? |
13:55.56 | kraptv | they seemed huge 10 years ago, and now I only hear about them here and there. |
13:56.36 | ChoHag | That's because they got bought by morons. |
13:57.16 | kraptv | Anyone have thoughts about Be/o2? |
13:57.35 | kraptv | That's who I went with and I am fairly pleased, although the router seems to enjoy crapping out a bit. |
13:57.37 | ChoHag | About 10 years ago in fact - just when I got internet and new Demon were the ISP to use. |
13:58.09 | ChoHag | Be - too cheap for what they offer, O2 are just all-round shit and should be lumped with sky, bt, ntl and aol. |
13:58.13 | ChoHag | Oh and Tiscali. |
13:58.35 | ChoHag | So if Be and O2 are now one then I'd run for the hills. |
13:58.49 | kinko | grrrr |
13:58.51 | wethrin | AOL certainly used to be very good if you were in the habit of travelling around the world a lot |
13:58.56 | kinko | be are driving me up the wall atm |
13:59.08 | ChoHag | To give you money? |
13:59.30 | wethrin | Demon got taken of by Thus (Scottish Telecom) some years ago. So they can fuck off. Their billing department was *hugely* incompetent |
13:59.37 | kinko | they've thrown way to customers at the network, and have an estimated resolution time of 6 weeks |
13:59.46 | wethrin | And required 6 months of arguing with for them to actually admin that my service *had* terminated |
13:59.52 | kraptv | well, I'm still doing Be, but what would you recommend I go to instead? I think I pay GBP15 a month with a static IP. |
13:59.59 | kinko | http://www.samknows.com/broadband/news/be-and-o2-to-combat-congestion-hotspots-with-network-upgrade-489.html |
14:00.01 | wethrin | With ISPs, you get what you pay for, normally |
14:00.20 | ChoHag | ukfsn. |
14:00.21 | wethrin | I'm with AAISP, pay about £18.50 a month with 16 static IPs, ADSL Max |
14:00.22 | dick_turpin | wethrin: I pinchend loads of Demon customers locally about 7 years ago |
14:00.35 | kraptv | and supposedly they were not the alliance of big brother ISPs that open up their books at the blowing of a nose by the RIAA? |
14:00.41 | ChoHag | Never had a problem with them since they switched away from Tiscali to Enta. |
14:01.15 | ChoHag | Although they got a bit arsey a while ago when my brother was downloading stuff. |
14:01.16 | kraptv | wethrin: I only need a single IP and the only thing I care about is making sure my SIP traffic to my asterisk box works... |
14:01.35 | ChoHag | Torrents that is. |
14:02.27 | wethrin | Well, it wont' cost you any less to only have one IP |
14:13.49 | kraptv | Well. there we go. |
14:19.41 | Mohan | In my experience Bethere is really good, you can download anything and everything with them. |
14:20.01 | ChoHag | I should really consider finding some work to do. |
14:20.19 | ChoHag | Slow day. |
14:20.58 | Mohan | the only downside is you have to have a BT line. |
14:34.43 | bilarh | brilliant, on the 31st of december 2007 i was 16st 10lbs |
14:34.51 | bilarh | now i'm 16st 1lbs :D |
14:35.04 | bilarh | so in one year i've lost a bit of weight |
14:35.46 | dick_turpin | bilarh: Blubber butt |
14:36.16 | bilarh | whatever :) |
14:42.16 | dick_turpin | next laugh anyone? (work related) |
14:42.25 | bilarh | go on then |
14:42.52 | dick_turpin | Just had a delivery of three large reels of cabel |
14:42.55 | dick_turpin | cable |
14:43.21 | dick_turpin | one of the Engineers said "Gives a hand Pete" |
14:44.00 | dick_turpin | So there he was trying to lift the thing "WTF are you doing? up end it and roll it" idiot |
14:44.34 | bilarh | hehe :D |
14:44.57 | dick_turpin | Shh so much for qualified people |
14:51.54 | *** join/#gllug mindbendr (n=neveraga@80.68.37.130) |
14:52.01 | mindbendr | morsing! |
14:55.00 | mindbendr | if I'm pinging an ip from a host to another host and if these hosts have got 2 ips for each on the interface, why would I get a reply from the other IP rather than the original ip that i'm pinging |
14:55.51 | mindbendr | like host1 eth0: 192.168.0.1 eth0:1 10.200.101.100 to host2 eth0: 192.168.0.2 eth0:1 10.200.101.101 |
14:56.15 | mindbendr | ping 192.168.0.2 replies from 10.200.101.101 |
14:59.27 | cpufreak | because linux is shit |
14:59.28 | cpufreak | next |
15:00.16 | kjs | adding ? |
15:06.04 | kinko | check the routing table on the 2nd host |
15:16.12 | mindbendr | kinko: how should it be? |
15:18.34 | antiphase | The problem you have is that you have lots of addresses with the same MAC on the same network, so you lose |
15:18.37 | antiphase | Don't do that |
15:19.09 | antiphase | See also having two hosts on the same two networks, which causes TCP redirect horror |
15:20.11 | antiphase | If you insist on putting one interface on different subnets, split it into sub-interfaces with 802.1q |
15:21.20 | antiphase | If you can't or don't want to do that for some reason, you have no reason to have different subnets on the same interface |
15:22.06 | antiphase | Networking isn't just about IP addresses when you consider a LAN, because of layer 2 stuff that people seem to ignore |
15:33.19 | kraptv | Any of you guys use sipgate.co.uk? |
15:36.33 | *** part/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
15:37.38 | mindbendr | antiphase: thanks, could you explain this sub-interfaces with 802.1q part. Unfortunately, we have to use different subnets on the same interface. |
15:38.33 | mindbendr | antiphase: do you mean using a router? |
15:38.35 | antiphase | You never *have* to. 802.1q will require that you have network equipment that supports tagged VLANs |
15:39.19 | mindbendr | antiphase: well the second network has got 192.9.200.0 ip block as local ip address that has got NAT |
15:39.31 | antiphase | No, VLANning is a switching technology; layer 2 and independent of IP addresses |
15:39.57 | mindbendr | antiphase: and there are 2 firewalls doing the routing between 2 lines so it's wrong from the beginning, trying to fix the issue as we can't move 192.9.200 network |
15:40.01 | antiphase | Are NICs really too expensive that you can't stuff another on in the box? |
15:41.01 | mindbendr | no the network topology is heavily screwed up here so we can't add NICs |
15:43.00 | mindbendr | host1 (192.9.200.1) (80.x.x.x real IP NAT translation) <--> firewall (192.9.200.2) <-----> firewall (192.9.200.3) <---> host2 (192.9.200.4) |
15:44.33 | mindbendr | when we try to access from host2 to external ip of host1, it goes through other external line on the second firewall, to be able to have access to the host1 from the external ip in our internal network |
15:44.40 | mindbendr | nevermind |
15:44.49 | mindbendr | I hate this company. |
15:45.23 | antiphase | How can you possibly have firewall with addresses from the same network on trusted and untrusted sides? |
15:46.33 | antiphase | If someone has managed it, I'm not surprised it doesn't do what you expect |
15:47.02 | antiphase | Each hop between devices should be on a non-overlapping piece of address space or who knows what ends up happening |
15:53.17 | bilarh | wohoo, last day on call :D |
15:53.24 | bilarh | for five weeks |
15:55.23 | boudiccas | who you goona call? bilarh-busters |
15:56.44 | bilarh | that's usually what i do when someoen calls me actually |
15:56.47 | bilarh | in the middle of the night |
15:56.51 | bilarh | royally fuck something up |
15:56.55 | bilarh | and then spend three hours fixing it |
15:56.58 | bilarh | just in time to go to work :) |
15:57.57 | mindbendr | antiphase: well that's the way they have set up with ~30 servers and stupid NATing so I'm trying to fix the issue but it's not easy without interrupting the server connections |
15:59.14 | antiphase | Schedule an out-of-hours outage then. It can't be that important if it's set up so badly |
16:02.06 | Mohan | Is there a free web interface available for maintaining BIND ? |
16:07.21 | mindbendr | Mohan: webmin? even though it's not secure at all |
16:07.51 | mindbendr | antiphase: if you put %99.9 uptime to the contracts, you can't do it (how stupid isn't it) |
16:08.20 | cpufreak | Mohan: don't use bind. |
16:08.24 | antiphase | That gives you a few hours, or you bring up your backup site while you do the work |
16:09.07 | cpufreak | anyone who still uses bind in this day and age, deserves to have their penis put through a food blender |
16:09.25 | bilarh | looks worriedly at his netherly regions :S |
16:09.37 | hali | bilarh: volans is on efnet :-) |
16:09.54 | bilarh | actually, i don't think it's being used anymore... but some old hpux crap here is still running a named |
16:09.57 | bilarh | hali: damn :D |
16:10.05 | bilarh | hali: he must be all grown up now :D |
16:10.11 | hali | i hope so |
16:10.23 | Mohan | cpufreak: what is that you recommend then ? |
16:10.42 | antiphase | powerdns for authoritative servers |
16:10.52 | antiphase | Don't use the recursor though because it's shit |
16:12.43 | cpufreak | minime:~ andy$ dig +short version.bind txt chaos @ns1.joostas.com |
16:12.43 | cpufreak | "Served by PowerDNS - http://www.powerdns.com" |
16:12.43 | cpufreak | minime:~ andy$ |
16:13.54 | cpufreak | also, don't use djbdns/dnscache/tinydns anymore... tey're unmaitnained and a bit of a nice vulnerability will be announced shortly |
16:16.08 | antiphase | And DJB is a fuckloon |
16:16.36 | Mohan | ok |
16:16.43 | cpufreak | that too |
16:18.17 | Mohan | thankx for the info guys, i will have a look at powerdns. |
17:27.15 | antiphase | starts a flame war |
17:27.28 | morsing | Beer |
17:39.49 | cpufreak | music goes well with beer |
17:39.52 | cpufreak | check out jigsaw |
17:39.53 | cpufreak | http://labs.joost.com/projects/jigsaw/ |
17:39.56 | antiphase | I think I fail at flame wars, when mailing lists fail at letting people swear properly |
17:41.06 | ChoHag | Those mailing lists suck anyway. |
17:43.34 | antiphase | yawns and unsubscribes instead |
17:43.35 | xteddy | hugs sleepy antiphase |
17:45.06 | ChoHag | We want to run our own servers slaving dns, kerberos, etc. but every way I write the email makes it sound like the only reason to do it is because I don't trust the windows servers. |
17:45.23 | ChoHag | Which is true, and sensible because they fail fairly often, but isn't very manager friendly. |
17:48.53 | Mohan | says bye all. |
17:52.10 | morsing | Mohan! |
17:52.20 | morsing | No wait, that's entering... |
17:52.23 | morsing | waves instead |
18:09.03 | morsing | kjs: ping |
19:30.01 | *** join/#gllug j0nr_ (n=j0nr@5adc84a1.bb.sky.com) |
19:32.18 | morsing | j0nr_! |
19:37.17 | kraptv | meet the family who have it all. |
19:42.14 | morsing | bilarh: ping |
19:43.58 | morsing | wethrin: Where's bilarh? |
19:49.12 | *** join/#gllug rhowe_ (n=rhowe@78.32.63.27) |
19:49.46 | morsing | rhowe_! |
19:49.53 | morsing | rhowe_: Where's bilarh? |
20:01.45 | *** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild) |
20:01.59 | morsing | catalyst! |
20:09.58 | morsing | ChoHag: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DIGR3rwPgSE |
21:09.31 | kjs | morsing: pong |
21:12.01 | morsing | kjs: What's for supper? |
21:12.51 | kjs | Chinese |
21:12.58 | morsing | Do they mind? |
21:20.46 | boudiccas | kjs; fried? |
21:22.43 | morsing | Fried Chinese people... |
21:22.45 | morsing | Hmmmm |
21:24.25 | kjs | adding yeah |
21:24.32 | kjs | boudiccas: yeah even |
21:26.46 | morsing | Beer |
21:26.58 | morsing | kjs: You coming to bed, dear? |
21:28.02 | kjs | not just yet darling |
21:40.58 | morsing | ibot change 100 EUR to GBP |
21:41.18 | morsing | ibot: Why? |
21:41.19 | ibot | Why? Because you touch yourself at night. |
21:50.41 | an0key | ibot can i touch your mum? |
23:33.02 | *** join/#gllug chillitom_ (n=tom@78-86-122-19.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
23:33.04 | kjs | yo |
23:58.48 | an0key | yo! |