IRC log for #gllug on 20090129

00:01.59*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n219079208127.netvigator.com)
00:23.54*** join/#gllug an0key (n=luke@82-34-223-29.cable.ubr01.sout.blueyonder.co.uk)
03:02.41*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n219076246225.netvigator.com)
04:13.20morsingLeeds: How do I get a pound sign in pssh?
04:13.43morsingan0key: Cawfy
04:16.56an0keymorsing: pepsi max
05:44.55an0keyanyone managed to get a touchterm ssh key to work?
05:55.03Leedsan0key: diet coke
06:00.20an0keydiet pepsi is the choice, but the m&s garage failed
06:41.59*** join/#gllug bilarh (n=henrik@128-177-27-125.ip.openhosting.com)
06:42.55*** join/#gllug rhowe (n=rhowe@78.32.63.27)
08:23.05morsingbilarh!
08:23.13morsingrhowe!
08:40.41LeedsI'm falling asleep at my desk again - must be late afternoon
08:51.29j0nrmorning all
08:51.57morsingj0nr!
08:58.00bilarhmorsing
08:58.32bilarhgot my ecu in the end
08:58.41bilarhre yesterdays paypal question :)
09:00.50MohanMorning All.
09:01.31Mohanmorsing!
09:06.33morsingMohan!
09:06.41morsingbilarh: Congrats :)
09:17.50bilarhshit, starbucks profits down 69% in last quarter, 6700 jobs cut
09:17.57bilarhwtf where am i going to get my latte now?
09:19.32an0keybilarh: somewhere that does decent coffee?
09:28.52bilarhwell, everyone says that
09:28.56bilarhbut i actually quite like starbucks
09:29.05bilarhpossibly as a concept more than anything else
09:29.16bilarhi'm easily influenced by advertising :)
09:34.14Mohanbilarh: nero cofee tastes good as well.
09:34.58morsingStarbucks cawfy is rubbish
09:35.12morsingAnd no-one beats Costa
09:35.39morsingNero--  Staff too rude and cawfy only decent
09:37.03an0keyI like sitting in a coffee shop, usually starbucks as they are everywhere, but no-one beats the coffee from the guy in st katherines dock, omnomnom
09:45.52AndyMillarnero is shit :(
09:46.09AndyMillari've stopped drinking starbucks though
09:46.23AndyMillaras 5 venti (warm) mochas a day wasn't good for my health
09:48.59bilarhandymillar: 5 venti mochas *jesus*
09:49.05bilarhthey're like 400 calories each or something :D
09:55.18cpufreakehh
09:55.20cpufreakthats nothing
09:55.30cpufreakI used to get through more
09:55.42cpufreakand that discounted starbucks at betfair was dangerous
09:55.56bilarhhmm it was
09:56.03cpufreakhttp://www.run-riot.com/node/%202185
09:56.06cpufreakeveryone must attend!
09:56.11cpufreaksister's band is touring to london
09:56.22bilarhi mean i get through way more coffee, but not full on mochas
10:06.16ChoHagI've had my 19" monitor taken away.
10:06.45ChoHagIt was sitting on the side unused for 2 weeks so I replaced one of my 15"s with it and it got taken away either last night or this morning.
10:07.15ChoHagAlso they decided they had to turn my PC off in order to do it for some reason.
10:12.14ChoHagHmm seems the DBAs may be designing the new SAN after all and not me.
10:14.07ChoHagAlso I think they've pretty much decided to go with EMC without even considering other offers.
10:15.21bilarhchohag: keep repeating "it pays the bills"
10:15.24bilarhi find it helps sometimes
10:15.32ChoHagHeh.
10:16.02ChoHagWell the only reason I could find for not looking elsewhere was that I'd play a major part in installing the new SAN.
10:16.05ChoHagSo fuck 'em.
10:18.00wethrinreads up a bit. I disagree with morsing - I've found Nero's staff to be quite friendly. I suppose it depends on which branch you visit
10:18.34wethrinChoHag: Get a new job!
10:19.00an0keybilarh: I had to chant that for 12hrs last night :P
10:19.16ChoHagWtf? Devs and test have access to live data. The company is becoming more aware of the data protection act so I raised this issue again and the response was "I have introduced Daniel Khan to a an external company that will provide
10:19.20ChoHaghim with a tool that allows data encryption."
10:19.45wethrinErrrrrrrrr
10:20.02wethrinIf I say "pgp/gpg", can I get £2000 from your company?
10:20.04ChoHagDaniel Khan being the test team lead.
10:20.12ChoHagHaha. No.
10:20.15wethrinOh
10:20.19wethrinThen I won't bother
10:20.25ChoHagYou'd have to call it something else and charge at least £20,000.
10:20.25bilarhan0key: i might print a sign with it and stick it on a frame on my desk  :)
10:20.54an0keyhahaha i was thinking more, every 20 minutes or so it scrolls across our big lcd's on the wall :P
10:20.55bilarhchohag: connect direct? :D
10:21.11bilarhan0key: ah yeah, that idea is even better :D
10:21.12wethrinChoHag: For £20k, I'll mount an encrypted loopback filesystem
10:21.24ChoHagOoh now that's fancy.
10:21.24bilarhwethrin: too complicated for 20k
10:21.43bilarhwethrin: what you need to give them for 20k is rot-13, so that the managers can understand it
10:21.43ChoHagYeah. That's easily surpassed 6 figures.
10:21.53wethrinbilarh: Double-ROT13?
10:22.02ChoHagDouble-RAT26.
10:22.03ChoHagROT
10:22.09wethrinis so glad he's not in IT
10:22.10bilarhdo triple for extra protection
10:22.15bilarh3-ROT13 :)
10:22.20bilarhit's dire sometimes
10:22.23bilarhit can be great as well, though
10:22.43bilarhi've just had an argument with someone who wants me to keep an up to date rpm of something
10:22.46ChoHagBah I've got my email going again after over a month and there's nothing in linuxjobs.
10:22.48bilarhbut he wont give me the source code for his changes
10:22.51bilarhjust the binaries :D
10:23.33wethrinmonster.com :)
10:25.31an0keywethrin: they distribute everything but your CV ;)
10:25.43wethrinBah
10:26.27ChoHag?
10:26.58morsing!
10:28.08ChoHagAah it's cargo-cult computing.
10:28.14wethrinHm?
10:28.28ChoHag"I've never had a problem with our [EMC] SAN."
10:28.47wethrinIs there an issue with EMC?
10:28.52ChoHagJust age.
10:29.08ChoHagBut if it's being replaced alternatives should be considered.
10:29.19an0key+1 for Netapp...
10:29.28wethrinWell, if you know one particular brand works, it's often easier to keep to the same one
10:29.56cpufreakChoHag: do you want a SAN, or a NAS to replace it with?
10:29.59bilarhis with wethrin, within limit
10:30.00bilarhs
10:30.02ChoHagSAN
10:30.12cpufreakif san, look at hitachi
10:35.10ChoHagThere are so many models of Sun server.
10:38.56cpufreakthere's only a couple worth buying though
10:45.55*** join/#gllug mindbendr (n=neveraga@80.68.37.130)
11:03.48ChoHagOn the monitor thing, we have just received two wide 32" screens to display charts and things which nobody will look at.
11:04.04ChoHagSorry, I should say "two more" because we already have two.
11:04.13ChoHagAnd the network team have two of their own.
11:04.35ChoHagAnd the devs for some utterly dumb reason have two too.
11:05.10wethrinSo you need one too
11:06.25ChoHagAh but if I had a big monitor everyone else would want one too.
11:06.41wethrinYes.....
11:07.32antiphaseWant != Get
11:08.25ChoHagAnd Need != Get, so "would actually find really bloody useful" != Get also.
11:08.54ChoHagThough "Waste of time, money and space" double-plus == Get
11:09.57wethrinSo tell them you don't need one
11:10.54ChoHagThey are figuring out (after buying them) how to plug them in in the corner they will go.
11:11.27ChoHagwall-port -> phone -> hub -> desktop & wallboard PC was proposed.
11:19.24wethrinHa. Piss Poor Planning, etc.
11:20.46ChoHagPlanning?
11:21.00ChoHagThey just bought the shiny toys and didn't think beyond that.
11:21.15*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n219079208127.netvigator.com)
11:21.36kraptvNetApp is SAN too, though...
11:21.43Mohanmorsing: poor administration and waste of resources.
11:21.50Mohanoops
11:22.54Mohanall these widescreen for graph monitoring its a waste
11:23.15Mohanprovided if you have a properly configured snmp monitoring system
11:23.51bilarhit's quite interesting to look at sometimes
11:23.56bilarhand it looks "techy" :)
11:23.59kraptvMohan: USB tv tuner == higher job satisfaction when the boss aint' looking!
11:24.28Mohankraptv: i have a usb tv tuner but couldnt get it working with mythtv :(
11:25.19Mohanits like show off, they monitor cisco switches and firewall in widescreen
11:25.41Mohanwhat it would show is red or green light for every port
11:25.56ChoHagkraptv: No. NetApp uses NFS.
11:26.03ChoHagOur DBA says so so it must be true.
11:26.19kraptvChoHag: augh!
11:26.30wethrinDoesn't NetApp use some slight bastardisation of NFS?
11:26.50kraptvNo. They follow the standard very closely...
11:27.06ChoHagSo they use some slight bastardisation of NFS then.
11:27.07kraptvAnd were very involved in doing NFSv4 the right way. :-)
11:27.43kraptvI will confess one thing: I work for NetApp.
11:27.58wethrinSo you sat on the meetings, and then ignored what Sun said? :)
11:28.08kraptvI was a NetApp user at my previous job and was very happy, so I came to work for them..
11:28.24ChoHagkraptv: Got spare jobs?
11:28.27kraptvwethrin: no, we took notes, lots and lots of notes.. ;-)
11:28.45kraptvChoHag: perhaps, check on the website!
11:31.09kraptvbut anyways... there are lots of good products out there.... I don't want to be the vendor dude that says "MINE MINE MINE"  ... but there are a lot of cool features especially for oracle on NetApp.
11:31.27kraptvSo I shall go silent in one minute (for a while at least!)
11:31.40mindbendrkraptv: I was saying a few days ago, which animation company did you work for?
11:31.50kraptvmindbendr: LAIKA
11:31.50ChoHagkraptv: You missed it. The DBAs are choosing the SAN because they clearly understand the technology.
11:32.00ChoHagAlthough they can't grasp the purpose of /etc/init.d
11:32.01mindbendrkraptv: are they based in UK?
11:32.06kraptvChoHag: oh, ugh DBA egos?
11:32.13kraptvmindbendr: nope! USA.
11:32.21mindbendrkraptv: was it one of the big ones?
11:32.24kraptvmindbendr: check out www.coraline.com
11:32.39kraptvThat's the film that's coming out next week in the states (who knows in the UK!)
11:33.36ChoHagThis place is full of egos.
11:34.40ChoHagThe network team want to control everything despite understanding nothing. The devs think they need access to every system we have.
11:34.59ChoHagTest are spending money on shit products hand over fist because they have a new team lead.
11:35.27mindbendrkraptv: I worked as a 3d animation artist in TV industry but now I work as a sysadmin and I'll have a degree for 3d animation next year. So I was thinking about to work for the animation studios. Once I interviewed with one of them about a sysadmin job and they asked me whether do I know about rigging in animation. How would being experienced affect a career in that kind of job?
11:36.19mindbendrkraptv: do you think if I were to work in such a job, my 3d skills would become handy beside the sysadmin skills? Considering that they use linux servers for Maya and perl,python scripting etc
11:36.22kraptvmindbendr: It would be positive in that area. Any insight into a business process as an IT person is a very valuable thing.
11:36.42mindbendrkraptv: but does that stay as an insight?
11:36.55kraptvfor smaller shops, it would be amazing as they could use you for small tasks and then do IT behind.
11:37.16kraptvyou end up making better choices for them because you can look at new stuff and say "this would work really well for this scenario"
11:37.17mindbendrI was thinking about the large studios
11:37.27kraptvlarge studios, it depends.
11:37.37kraptvIf you were closer to the users, it might work very well.
11:37.46kraptvIf you were doing some pipeline maintenance, it would work very well.
11:37.53kraptvif you were doing network administration, not so much.
11:37.59mindbendrhave you seen anyone doing that kinda work?
11:38.04mindbendrthat has got experience on both
11:38.19wethrinI would guess that the more you know about an industry, the more likely it is you'd be hired there
11:38.34mindbendrwethrin: yeah but it's completely different jobs
11:38.35kraptvmindbendr: Hmm, for pipeline development, absolutely.
11:38.42kraptvand there's money in pipeline dev.
11:38.57kraptvthere's more money in pipeline than there is in IT for animation.
11:39.05mindbendrkraptv: about pipeline development, what do you mean exactly? interacting different systems with each other?
11:39.12mindbendrkraptv: i'm not keen about being a developer though
11:39.24kraptvmindbendr: asset management systems for cartoon production.
11:39.34ChoHagThere's a difference between developing and writing scripts.
11:39.44mindbendrkraptv: so it would be development?
11:39.49kraptvhow does the modeler pass to the rigger pass to layout pass to animation pass to ligthing/textures pass to vfx pass to compositing and back and forth.
11:39.51ChoHagThough being able to do one will tend to help the other.
11:40.09kraptvIt's not really programming for most skills, it's basically figuring out conventions of filenames, directory structure, and how to do it in an efficient fashion.
11:40.10mindbendrkraptv: I thought they use commercial asset management systems for that
11:40.35kraptvmindbendr: typically studios will buy a package and then need to tweak it or implement it for their business process.
11:40.50kraptvANd they're often changing out their render batch queueing software...
11:41.11mindbendrkraptv: so would you say it's a good thing not to leave my 3d skills aside
11:41.11kraptvI can talk more about this sometime, but I really need to get on the tube.
11:41.21mindbendrkraptv: ok thanks
11:41.23kraptvmindbendr: are your 3d skills a fun thing to have?
11:41.28kraptvif it's fun, keep it up.
11:41.38kraptvplay with blender, too!
11:41.43mindbendrkraptv: they are but you have to keep building them up all the time, it's not like sysadmin :)
11:41.51mindbendrkraptv: it's kinda artistic in the end
11:43.11kraptvmindbendr: not like sysadmin? what are you, some sort of geezer Tru64 admin?
11:43.24kraptvor an AIX admin that says "beer" on IRC all day?
11:43.28kraptv(just kidding)
11:43.46mindbendrkraptv: what i meant was, the industry is young so it has got a fast face and tendency to change so fast
11:43.58mindbendr*fast pace
11:44.03kraptvyou would be surprised, if you understand key fundamentals, you'll be fine...
11:44.15kraptvalso, do you know compositing?
11:44.18mindbendrkraptv: well I spent ~10 years on animation
11:44.34mindbendrkraptv: yeah I've got experience on SGI Flint (IRIX)
11:44.36kraptvwhat are you doing now for work?
11:44.42mindbendrlinux sysadmin
11:44.42kraptvFlint, sweet. :-)
11:45.33mindbendrkraptv: I'd like to talk about it when you've got time :)
11:45.52mindbendrkraptv: this really messes my mind all the time
12:04.59mindbendris it not possible to set virtual IP addresses on FreeBSD to an interface as we can do on linux?
12:07.25ChoHagI find that highly unlikely.
12:10.08mindbendryeah me too
12:10.13mindbendrfound it though
12:10.39mindbendrputting the word `alias` do the work, you don't create a virtual interface like eth0:1 though
12:10.58ChoHagYou don't do that in Linux any more either.
12:11.02mindbendrno?
12:11.04mindbendrwhy not
12:11.05ChoHagThough you can if you want to.
12:11.16ChoHagAliases are cleaner and easier.
12:11.20mindbendrI see
12:11.25ChoHagOr whatever they're called.
12:11.27mindbendris it something announced?
12:11.33ChoHagshrugs
12:11.49ChoHagProbably not. Linux devs don't go in for announcements they just do stuff.
12:11.52mindbendrlike we are going to deprecate it
12:13.36ChoHagshrugs
12:14.25wethrinifconfig en0 alias inet x.x.x.x
12:14.30wethrinis the correct thing in FreeBSD
12:15.00wethrinYes. Linux devs don't announce things. They just do stuff, and expect other people to somehow find out what they've done
12:17.10mindbendrare you serious or just kidding? :)
12:17.30ChoHagYes.
12:29.20kjsafternoon
12:44.17*** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
12:44.57bilarhyo dick
12:45.29dick_turpinbilarh: Me old mucker
12:49.26bilarhdick_turpin: hey are you an "uphill gardener"?
12:51.30dick_turpinbilarh: How much money you offering?
12:52.09bilarhi'll see what i can find down the back of the sofa
12:53.15dick_turpinbilarh: Sod off I'm hiding there
12:54.59dick_turpinwethrin: Want today's story? AKA thick sysadmin
12:55.23wethrinYes!
12:55.42wethrinAre you allowed to share it with others here?
12:56.06bilarhi want it too
12:56.10bilarhso i bloody hope so
12:56.20dick_turpinwethrin: Email: "Hi Pete, you know them battery type things on the Motherboard are they special or will any old battery do?"
12:56.32wethrinoh dear
12:56.44wethrinThe battery that says "CR2032" in large letters on it?
12:57.26dick_turpinwethrin: Me: "Ah they are called CMOS batteries, they are a bit special I have some £11.00 each will that be OK?"
12:57.49wethrin:)
12:58.04dick_turpinwethrin: Email: Yes fine can I collect? I'd better take two just in case"
12:58.15wethrinHey. At least you make a profit on them
12:58.29wethrintaking advantage of stupid people++ # it's so easy
12:58.37dick_turpinwethrin: Even more so seeing as they are out of dead machines :-D
12:58.41wethrinAnd as a salesperson, you wouldn't have moral issues :)
12:58.44wethrinheh
12:58.51bilarhdick_turpin: i'm shocked :)
12:59.18dick_turpinbilarh: wethrin and I aren't
13:00.03wethrinI keep forgetting that people can be this stupid
13:00.44dick_turpinwethrin: I never forget, I cant, I get reminded every day and on some days every hour
13:01.55dick_turpinwethrin: Had a girl ring yesterday "We need a new TFT but not one with those blue blocks they dont fit we need a kettle lead one"
13:02.07wethrinWaaa
13:02.18wethrinSo hide the power supply under the desk...
13:02.39dick_turpin"but the blue block is the VGA connection you will need that!
13:03.39antiphaseKill all people that refer to female IEC C13 connectors as "kettle leads"
13:03.42wethrinOh.
13:03.49antiphaseKILL, I SAY!
13:03.49wethrinKettle leads have a notch in them
13:04.01wethrinBut everyone knows what you're talking about if you ask for a kettle lead
13:04.26antiphaseSo I plug in the server, go to make a cup of tea, and some fucker has stolen the lead
13:04.55wethrinSo the fact it was plugged in makes no difference to them?
13:06.33dick_turpinMe thinks (But don't quote me) she was/is trying to stick the power lead in the VGA port on the TFT. Ka-boom methinks
13:06.53dick_turpinantiphase: Rotflmao
13:06.54wethrinSome people are too stupid to own a computer
13:07.44dick_turpinwethrin: Nothing ceases to surprise me anymore
13:11.12dick_turpinwethrin: Ooh forgot to tell you I've sold another one of those quality solution Web Proxy boxes
13:11.27bilarhthings are back to normal now, i'm getting spam again :D
13:11.40bilarhatleast somebody cares enough to email me :D
13:11.50dick_turpinbilarh: Huzzah! Youve taken me off your black list then?
13:11.57bilarhyeo
13:15.06wethrindick_turpin: Oh dear....
13:16.02dick_turpinwethrin: It is a bit, I've gotta supply a machine that actually looks like a server so I may have to spend £75 instead of £65 I'm gutted
13:16.54wethrinohdear
13:18.27wethrinwonders how many people will start picking on jt@camalyn.org again
13:19.15dick_turpinantiphase: talking of lead theft, (I think I've told this before) had a customer ring a couple of years back "We cant log on" OK reboot the server. 10 mins later "The servers gone someones pinched it!" That'll explain it then
13:19.27antiphaseHeh
13:19.32wethrinHe didn't put a salary down. Only said "phose me about it"
13:20.03dick_turpinantiphase: Ah but it was in a windowless basement, inside job methinks
13:21.32dick_turpinwethrin: "phose me"? is that his typo or yours?
13:22.05wethrinMine
13:22.12dick_turpinPity
13:22.26wethrinActually, lies. Email me, he said
13:23.40dick_turpinSeeing as that link is an email address I don't have the foggiest what you're on about, dick_turpin nods like a TV interviewer.
13:27.06dick_turpinRotflmao. The CMOS man has just emailed me again, I bet you lot didn't know clearing the event logs fixes the problem! lol
13:27.30antiphaseI bet they had to cut him out of a big wafer
13:28.05dick_turpinantiphase: I await the next email with baited breath
13:28.08wethrinWell no. Because you said the problem was a flat cMOS battery
13:28.38antiphasebated innit
13:28.44antiphaseBait is what fishermen use
13:28.45dick_turpinwethrin: Mate its like that old joke about the bloke who takes his car to the garage
13:28.53dick_turpinantiphase: Oops sorry
13:29.02antiphaseApology accepted :P
13:29.33dick_turpin"Scuse me guvnor me cars makes a right noise but if I turn the stereo up it goes away any ideas?"
13:29.41dick_turpincar
13:33.02kraptvhow many of you go to the tottenham court computer fair? (the one that is every weekend in the basement of a nearby hotel)
13:34.43wethrinIs it not in the basement of the Windeyer Building?
13:34.44kraptvnetsplit?
13:34.52wethrinWhich isn't a hotel. It's a UCL building
13:34.54kraptvI forget exactly.
13:35.46kraptvbut you know what I am talking about... is there anything better as far as deals on random computer bits g??
13:36.37wethrinThey're handy if you want cheap stuff quickly. I wouldn't necessarily buy stuff that I wanted to be reliable from there, though
13:37.09kraptvWell, of course not.
13:37.41kraptvIs there any place in the London area that actually has surplus electronics/mechanical things/weird stuff for sale?
13:38.07wethrinProbably
13:38.27dick_turpinI can sell you bilarh he's weird
13:39.10kraptvYour answer gives me great hope. :-/
13:39.48kraptvI was impressed by some of the used P4s available at the fair.... only 45 quid for an IBM slim 2.8ghz workstation, not bad..
13:40.12wethrinI'm sure there is, but I don't know where. Asking someone like Chris Bell is more likely to get you a correct answer
13:41.55kraptvWell, then, hey wethrin, can you go get Chis Bell for me?
13:42.08wethrinSearch the mailing list archives :)
13:42.17wethrinchris@overview.demon.co.uk, IIRC
13:44.31wethrindick_turpin: If you want stupidity: http://notalwaysright.com/do-we-sell-stupidity-indicators/1482
13:45.32dick_turpinwethrin: Now thats funny
13:47.21dick_turpindick_turpin: has a pervy thought as to what she may used the toothbrush to clean
13:51.34ChoHagThat would surely hurt.
13:52.50dick_turpinPlease don't encourage me ;-)
13:55.44kraptvIs demon internet basically on life-support?
13:55.56kraptvthey seemed huge 10 years ago, and now I only hear about them here and there.
13:56.36ChoHagThat's because they got bought by morons.
13:57.16kraptvAnyone have thoughts about Be/o2?
13:57.35kraptvThat's who I went with and I am fairly pleased, although the router seems to enjoy crapping out a bit.
13:57.37ChoHagAbout 10 years ago in fact - just when I got internet and new Demon were the ISP to use.
13:58.09ChoHagBe - too cheap for what they offer, O2 are just all-round shit and should be lumped with sky, bt, ntl and aol.
13:58.13ChoHagOh and Tiscali.
13:58.35ChoHagSo if Be and O2 are now one then I'd run for the hills.
13:58.49kinkogrrrr
13:58.51wethrinAOL certainly used to be very good if you were in the habit of travelling around the world a lot
13:58.56kinkobe are driving me up the wall atm
13:59.08ChoHagTo give you money?
13:59.30wethrinDemon got taken of by Thus (Scottish Telecom) some years ago. So they can fuck off. Their billing department was *hugely* incompetent
13:59.37kinkothey've thrown way to customers at the network, and have an estimated resolution time of 6 weeks
13:59.46wethrinAnd required 6 months of arguing with for them to actually admin that my service *had* terminated
13:59.52kraptvwell, I'm still doing Be, but what would you recommend I go to instead? I think I pay GBP15 a month with a static IP.
13:59.59kinkohttp://www.samknows.com/broadband/news/be-and-o2-to-combat-congestion-hotspots-with-network-upgrade-489.html
14:00.01wethrinWith ISPs, you get what you pay for, normally
14:00.20ChoHagukfsn.
14:00.21wethrinI'm with AAISP, pay about £18.50 a month with 16 static IPs, ADSL Max
14:00.22dick_turpinwethrin: I pinchend loads of Demon customers locally about 7 years ago
14:00.35kraptvand supposedly they were not the alliance of big brother ISPs that open up their books at the blowing of a nose by the RIAA?
14:00.41ChoHagNever had a problem with them since they switched away from Tiscali to Enta.
14:01.15ChoHagAlthough they got a bit arsey a while ago when my brother was downloading stuff.
14:01.16kraptvwethrin: I only need a single IP and the only thing I care about is making sure my SIP traffic to my asterisk box works...
14:01.35ChoHagTorrents that is.
14:02.27wethrinWell, it wont' cost you any less to only have one IP
14:13.49kraptvWell. there we go.
14:19.41MohanIn my experience Bethere is really good, you can download anything and everything with them.
14:20.01ChoHagI should really consider finding some work to do.
14:20.19ChoHagSlow day.
14:20.58Mohanthe only downside is you have to have a BT line.
14:34.43bilarhbrilliant, on the 31st of december 2007 i was 16st 10lbs
14:34.51bilarhnow i'm 16st 1lbs :D
14:35.04bilarhso in one year i've lost a bit of weight
14:35.46dick_turpinbilarh: Blubber butt
14:36.16bilarhwhatever :)
14:42.16dick_turpinnext laugh anyone? (work related)
14:42.25bilarhgo on then
14:42.52dick_turpinJust had a delivery of three large reels of cabel
14:42.55dick_turpincable
14:43.21dick_turpinone of the Engineers said "Gives a hand Pete"
14:44.00dick_turpinSo there he was trying to lift the thing "WTF are you doing? up end it and roll it" idiot
14:44.34bilarhhehe :D
14:44.57dick_turpinShh so much for qualified people
14:51.54*** join/#gllug mindbendr (n=neveraga@80.68.37.130)
14:52.01mindbendrmorsing!
14:55.00mindbendrif I'm pinging an ip from a host to another host and if these hosts have got 2 ips for each on the interface, why would I get a reply from the other IP rather than the original ip that i'm pinging
14:55.51mindbendrlike host1 eth0: 192.168.0.1 eth0:1 10.200.101.100 to host2 eth0: 192.168.0.2 eth0:1 10.200.101.101
14:56.15mindbendrping 192.168.0.2 replies from 10.200.101.101
14:59.27cpufreakbecause linux is shit
14:59.28cpufreaknext
15:00.16kjsadding ?
15:06.04kinkocheck the routing table on the 2nd host
15:16.12mindbendrkinko: how should it be?
15:18.34antiphaseThe problem you have is that you have lots of addresses with the same MAC on the same network, so you lose
15:18.37antiphaseDon't do that
15:19.09antiphaseSee also having two hosts on the same two networks, which causes TCP redirect horror
15:20.11antiphaseIf you insist on putting one interface on different subnets, split it into sub-interfaces with 802.1q
15:21.20antiphaseIf you can't or don't want to do that for some reason, you have no reason to have different subnets on the same interface
15:22.06antiphaseNetworking isn't just about IP addresses when you consider a LAN, because of layer 2 stuff that people seem to ignore
15:33.19kraptvAny of you guys use sipgate.co.uk?
15:36.33*** part/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
15:37.38mindbendrantiphase: thanks, could you explain this sub-interfaces with 802.1q part. Unfortunately, we have to use different subnets on the same interface.
15:38.33mindbendrantiphase: do you mean using a router?
15:38.35antiphaseYou never *have* to. 802.1q will require that you have network equipment that supports tagged VLANs
15:39.19mindbendrantiphase: well the second network has got 192.9.200.0 ip block as local ip address that has got NAT
15:39.31antiphaseNo, VLANning is a switching technology; layer 2 and independent of IP addresses
15:39.57mindbendrantiphase: and there are 2 firewalls doing the routing between 2 lines so it's wrong from the beginning, trying to fix the issue as we can't move 192.9.200 network
15:40.01antiphaseAre NICs really too expensive that you can't stuff another on in the box?
15:41.01mindbendrno the network topology is heavily screwed up here so we can't add NICs
15:43.00mindbendrhost1 (192.9.200.1) (80.x.x.x real IP NAT translation) <--> firewall (192.9.200.2) <-----> firewall (192.9.200.3) <---> host2 (192.9.200.4)
15:44.33mindbendrwhen we try to access from host2 to external ip of host1, it goes through other external line on the second firewall, to be able to have access to the host1 from the external ip in our internal network
15:44.40mindbendrnevermind
15:44.49mindbendrI hate this company.
15:45.23antiphaseHow can you possibly have firewall with addresses from the same network on trusted and untrusted sides?
15:46.33antiphaseIf someone has managed it, I'm not surprised it doesn't do what you expect
15:47.02antiphaseEach hop between devices should be on a non-overlapping piece of address space or who knows what ends up happening
15:53.17bilarhwohoo, last day on call :D
15:53.24bilarhfor five weeks
15:55.23boudiccaswho you goona call? bilarh-busters
15:56.44bilarhthat's usually what i do when someoen calls me actually
15:56.47bilarhin the middle of the night
15:56.51bilarhroyally fuck something up
15:56.55bilarhand then spend three hours fixing it
15:56.58bilarhjust in time to go to work :)
15:57.57mindbendrantiphase: well that's the way they have set up with ~30 servers and stupid NATing so I'm trying to fix the issue but it's not easy without interrupting the server connections
15:59.14antiphaseSchedule an out-of-hours outage then. It can't be that important if it's set up so badly
16:02.06MohanIs there a free web interface available for maintaining BIND ?
16:07.21mindbendrMohan: webmin? even though it's not secure at all
16:07.51mindbendrantiphase: if you put %99.9 uptime to the contracts, you can't do it (how stupid isn't it)
16:08.20cpufreakMohan: don't use bind.
16:08.24antiphaseThat gives you a few hours, or you bring up your backup site while you do the work
16:09.07cpufreakanyone who still uses bind in this day and age, deserves to have their penis put through a food blender
16:09.25bilarhlooks worriedly at his netherly regions :S
16:09.37halibilarh: volans is on efnet :-)
16:09.54bilarhactually, i don't think it's being used anymore... but some old hpux crap here is still running a named
16:09.57bilarhhali: damn  :D
16:10.05bilarhhali: he must be all grown up now :D
16:10.11halii hope so
16:10.23Mohancpufreak: what is that you recommend then ?
16:10.42antiphasepowerdns for authoritative servers
16:10.52antiphaseDon't use the recursor though because it's shit
16:12.43cpufreakminime:~ andy$ dig +short version.bind txt chaos @ns1.joostas.com
16:12.43cpufreak"Served by PowerDNS - http://www.powerdns.com"
16:12.43cpufreakminime:~ andy$
16:13.54cpufreakalso, don't use djbdns/dnscache/tinydns anymore... tey're unmaitnained and a bit of a nice vulnerability will be announced shortly
16:16.08antiphaseAnd DJB is a fuckloon
16:16.36Mohanok
16:16.43cpufreakthat too
16:18.17Mohanthankx for the info guys, i will have a look at powerdns.
17:27.15antiphasestarts a flame war
17:27.28morsingBeer
17:39.49cpufreakmusic goes well with beer
17:39.52cpufreakcheck out jigsaw
17:39.53cpufreakhttp://labs.joost.com/projects/jigsaw/
17:39.56antiphaseI think I fail at flame wars, when mailing lists fail at letting people swear properly
17:41.06ChoHagThose mailing lists suck anyway.
17:43.34antiphaseyawns and unsubscribes instead
17:43.35xteddyhugs sleepy antiphase
17:45.06ChoHagWe want to run our own servers slaving dns, kerberos, etc. but every way I write the email makes it sound like the only reason to do it is because I don't trust the windows servers.
17:45.23ChoHagWhich is true, and sensible because they fail fairly often, but isn't very manager friendly.
17:48.53Mohansays bye all.
17:52.10morsingMohan!
17:52.20morsingNo wait, that's entering...
17:52.23morsingwaves instead
18:09.03morsingkjs: ping
19:30.01*** join/#gllug j0nr_ (n=j0nr@5adc84a1.bb.sky.com)
19:32.18morsingj0nr_!
19:37.17kraptvmeet the family who have it all.
19:42.14morsingbilarh: ping
19:43.58morsingwethrin: Where's bilarh?
19:49.12*** join/#gllug rhowe_ (n=rhowe@78.32.63.27)
19:49.46morsingrhowe_!
19:49.53morsingrhowe_: Where's bilarh?
20:01.45*** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild)
20:01.59morsingcatalyst!
20:09.58morsingChoHag: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DIGR3rwPgSE
21:09.31kjsmorsing: pong
21:12.01morsingkjs: What's for supper?
21:12.51kjsChinese
21:12.58morsingDo they mind?
21:20.46boudiccaskjs; fried?
21:22.43morsingFried Chinese people...
21:22.45morsingHmmmm
21:24.25kjsadding yeah
21:24.32kjsboudiccas: yeah even
21:26.46morsingBeer
21:26.58morsingkjs: You coming to bed, dear?
21:28.02kjsnot just yet darling
21:40.58morsingibot change 100 EUR to GBP
21:41.18morsingibot: Why?
21:41.19ibotWhy? Because you touch yourself at night.
21:50.41an0keyibot can i touch your mum?
23:33.02*** join/#gllug chillitom_ (n=tom@78-86-122-19.zone2.bethere.co.uk)
23:33.04kjsyo
23:58.48an0keyyo!

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