| 00:34.31 | *** join/#gllug eye69 (n=magnus@me-155-110-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 00:39.18 | *** join/#gllug eye69 (n=magnus@me-155-110-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 00:54.06 | AndyMillar | have any of you guys seen setuid take >2s to run? |
| 00:56.32 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n219079208127.netvigator.com) |
| 01:54.17 | *** join/#gllug catalyst` (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild) |
| 07:37.39 | morsing | Leeds! |
| 07:37.42 | morsing | eye69! |
| 08:48.06 | morsing | Hmm... For some reason I thought the Royal Albert Hall was a concert hall |
| 08:51.41 | morsing | Anyone awake? |
| 09:15.50 | morsing | Beer |
| 09:43.03 | new2unix | ? |
| 09:43.31 | morsing | new2unix: Where can I go to the symphony this month? |
| 09:43.51 | new2unix | Shouldnt you be asking ibot? |
| 09:44.15 | new2unix | Or perhaps Ripley? |
| 09:44.23 | morsing | Ripley? |
| 09:44.27 | morsing | ibot: You suck |
| 09:44.49 | ibot | and very well I might add |
| 09:45.01 | morsing | new2unix: Why aren't you in Brussels? |
| 09:45.31 | new2unix | I've just finished watching the remake of War Games. It was most annoying. |
| 09:45.56 | morsing | I can imagine... |
| 09:46.22 | new2unix | I am no longer in London. Moved to Australia so the trip to Brussells would have cost a little more than a train trip. :( |
| 09:46.49 | morsing | ?!?!?!?! |
| 09:46.52 | morsing | :'( |
| 09:46.57 | new2unix | Are any slides up on the net yet? |
| 09:47.07 | morsing | Don't know |
| 09:48.18 | gregj | they were drunk yesterday night |
| 09:48.38 | gregj | but promised to release videos on website, around monday (will be friday as usual) :P |
| 09:57.20 | *** join/#gllug sabinef72 (n=sabinef7@ns.popipo.fr) |
| 09:57.41 | morsing | sabinef72! |
| 10:02.45 | morsing | Can someone tell me how a DVD I have has suddenly turned unreadable by every DVD player I try it in? |
| 10:03.56 | morsing | Unreadable as in the message I get is it's the wrong region? And my laptop says it's encrypted and can't be read |
| 10:04.07 | morsing | Never had a problem before |
| 10:11.29 | morsing | Hello? |
| 10:24.35 | morsing | Hello? |
| 10:27.20 | antiphase | Ha ha, have you used up all your region changes? |
| 10:27.36 | morsing | antiphase: Idiot |
| 10:44.35 | *** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild) |
| 10:50.10 | morsing | catalyst! |
| 10:53.31 | morsing | Beer |
| 10:56.06 | AndyMillar | had beer yesterday |
| 10:56.09 | morsing | :( |
| 10:59.37 | gregj | wonderes where to get 10-12 small magets, something like fridge magnets |
| 10:59.51 | morsing | gregj: Mexico |
| 10:59.57 | antiphase | You could buy some fridge magnets |
| 11:00.27 | gregj | yeah, I need to get my arse down the city centre |
| 12:10.24 | morsing | Why does grant create on a DB for a user not let that user create a table? |
| 12:10.52 | gregj | you have to grant user permission to create tables |
| 12:10.55 | gregj | at least in postgresql |
| 12:11.05 | gregj | mysql isn't even a database, sql one - by standards... |
| 12:11.31 | morsing | gregj: That's not my question |
| 12:12.02 | gregj | well, word it properly |
| 12:12.19 | morsing | Why does grant create on a DB for a user not let that user create a table? |
| 12:12.53 | antiphase | What about "grant create table"? |
| 12:14.24 | morsing | I did: |
| 12:14.26 | morsing | grant alter,create,delete,index,references,select,update on cds to morsing@localhost; |
| 12:15.40 | gregj | morsing: http://gj.pastebin.com/d6852098b |
| 12:15.43 | gregj | morsing: http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/static/sql-grant.html |
| 12:16.08 | gregj | oh, and also : |
| 12:16.25 | morsing | gregj: ??? |
| 12:16.27 | gregj | http://gj.pastebin.com/d1285d621 |
| 12:16.29 | morsing | You've lost me |
| 12:16.31 | gregj | ;] |
| 12:16.59 | gregj | well, you have real problem if so little information get confuse you frankly, no offence |
| 12:17.22 | morsing | gregj: What you have posted doesn't help me one bit... |
| 12:17.38 | morsing | It's the wrong software and even so makes little sense |
| 12:17.44 | gregj | ewll, like I said - word your question properly |
| 12:17.57 | morsing | It's worded fine |
| 12:18.53 | gregj | well, you are using mysql as far as I can tell. And security isn't its best part. |
| 12:19.02 | morsing | Also, if I create the table as another user, my user still can't see it?! |
| 12:19.09 | gregj | so I'll pass on that one.It can be done, and works on postgres and oracle. |
| 12:19.22 | gregj | define 'cant see' |
| 12:19.27 | gregj | in show tables ? |
| 12:19.31 | morsing | gregj: *sigh* WHY are you telling me this?! It's bloody irrelevant. If you can't answer my question, say nothing! |
| 12:19.33 | gregj | or whatever is the thing in mysql |
| 12:19.53 | morsing | mysql> show tables; |
| 12:19.54 | morsing | Empty set (0.00 sec) |
| 12:20.19 | gregj | try inserting into the table; |
| 12:20.35 | gregj | what does create table give you ? s it still the same database ? |
| 12:20.47 | gregj | what if you log in as different user ? (root ) |
| 12:22.58 | eye69 | morsing: Meep! |
| 12:23.29 | morsing | eye69!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 12:23.33 | morsing | eye69: You in Brussels? |
| 12:23.42 | eye69 | should I be? |
| 12:24.08 | morsing | gregj: If I log in as root te table is there. I have a feeling it sees me as another user to the one I grant access |
| 12:24.13 | morsing | eye69: Yes, you should |
| 12:24.22 | morsing | eye69: When are you visiting me? |
| 12:24.30 | antiphase | Ha ha, the REFERENCES privilege isn't even implemented in MySQL, as you'd know if you'd RTFMed |
| 12:24.39 | morsing | antiphase: Idiot |
| 12:24.44 | gregj | well, mysql.... |
| 12:24.52 | gregj | compiles, they release it as stable |
| 12:24.53 | gregj | :) |
| 12:25.21 | gregj | I burned on mysql so many times, that I seriously encurage you to drop it and use postgres, or something else instead. |
| 12:25.37 | eye69 | morsing: I guess I should take a trip to .uk sometime soon... |
| 12:25.40 | morsing | gregj: How easy is it to move your data? |
| 12:25.44 | morsing | eye69: Yes!!! |
| 12:25.55 | morsing | kisses eye69's nose |
| 12:25.55 | antiphase | MySQL works fine |
| 12:26.02 | gregj | it amazes me that ppl even use it, its like with windows - everynoe thinks it is the only thing out there, and works well, and nothing can be done better... |
| 12:26.02 | antiphase | It even has replication! |
| 12:26.09 | eye69 | morsing: Have you been taking your medicine? You seem a bit worked up... |
| 12:26.10 | gregj | well, partialy working |
| 12:26.30 | morsing | eye69: People on #gllug tend to work people up |
| 12:26.45 | morsing | eye69: And boudiccas isn't even here |
| 12:26.50 | gregj | antiphase: try filling up the partition with mysql tables , and see what happends. |
| 12:26.50 | antiphase | We stopped using Postgres at work ages ago because it's such a dog and you can't make a redundant configuration with it |
| 12:26.58 | gregj | also, try reseting box few times whenn mysql does someting |
| 12:27.01 | gregj | and see how it works |
| 12:27.02 | antiphase | If you fill your disks up, your sysadmin is shit |
| 12:27.02 | gregj | :) |
| 12:27.03 | morsing | gregj: How easy is it to move your data? |
| 12:27.20 | gregj | morsing: what do you mean by move, from mysql to something else ? |
| 12:27.26 | gregj | there's tons of mysql2postgresql scripts |
| 12:27.37 | gregj | different ones work different, with different types of data I presume |
| 12:27.46 | morsing | gregj: Yes |
| 12:28.10 | gregj | obviously some quesries got to be rewriten, because ppl cut corners while developing for mysql, and you no longer have to do that with proper dbs |
| 12:28.25 | gregj | it is doable, and I did it times and times under contraccts |
| 12:28.53 | gregj | it is everytime different set of problems, because obviously it isn't trivial -one script- type of task |
| 12:28.53 | morsing | Well, to be honest, MySQL does the job for what I need and has never failed me |
| 12:28.56 | gregj | but doable |
| 12:29.03 | antiphase | For other people that were too stupid to resist your shit-flinging about MySQL |
| 12:29.06 | gregj | well, it started to fail me in bigger projects |
| 12:29.44 | morsing | gregj: I've only used MySQL at work once and it sucked a bit. Crashed a lot and took an hour to self-check on start-up |
| 12:29.47 | gregj | well, thanks :) I like to be called stuppid, because it just gives me fast information on who's open, and with whom I should not even get into any argument. |
| 12:30.13 | morsing | gregj: If you hadn't learnt that about antiphase already... |
| 12:30.13 | antiphase | "Day 1 on contract, 'OMG you're using MySQL you fuckloons, we must start by ripping that out and replacing it by something else because I prefer it!'" |
| 12:30.23 | gregj | mysql is good for starters, their approach is - to be easy for application developers, with little sql knowledge |
| 12:30.50 | gregj | antiphase: no, day one: "hi, we have a problem with mysql here, and need to move to postgresql, I belive you know how to do it, do it" |
| 12:30.59 | gregj | if you are and ever been a contractor, you would know |
| 12:31.03 | gregj | how it works... |
| 12:31.19 | gregj | but for now, because you think I am stuppid, even not knowning me at all - I'll just ignore you |
| 12:31.30 | antiphase | WEll, I'd have thought that huge migrations would be more appropriate for longer term projects |
| 12:31.51 | gregj | so stop telling bullshit |
| 12:31.58 | antiphase | Or what? :P |
| 12:32.18 | morsing | antiphase: You might not realise it but with the way you behave, most people here knows you're the stupid one |
| 12:32.23 | antiphase | You'll tell all your high quality MySQL-hating contractor friends not to hire me |
| 12:32.45 | antiphase | Well, people are entitled to their opinion |
| 12:33.05 | gregj | morsing: anyways, obviously you either have a problem with mysql, or it isn't so simple as it might seem |
| 12:33.58 | gregj | morsing: I am only saying those things about mysql, because time and time again in the past I did hit a wall with it, and I was tired of hacks, etc. And it even didn't had a 1/6th of sql spec implemented at that time (4.0.x) |
| 12:34.31 | gregj | but from what I hear from different ppl nowdays, not much has changed, 5.1 has tons of new features, with most of them buggy as hell. What for me means - do not trust in production |
| 12:34.46 | gregj | why would I waste time working around them, when I can use something that works |
| 12:34.52 | antiphase | That's why people use 5.0 in production |
| 12:35.30 | gregj | morsing: if you think you did everything ok, and still something's fishy, ask on #mysql - I presume these folks are keen on helping, just like psql guys |
| 12:35.53 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@static-87-243-206-72.adsl.hotchilli.net) |
| 12:36.03 | morsing | gregj: Well, I understand that but it's quite a simple thing I'm doing and I've done it many times before |
| 12:36.06 | morsing | dick_turpin! |
| 12:36.38 | gregj | sure you do, |
| 12:36.47 | morsing | gregj: MySQL 2.0 will do fine for me. All I use is select |
| 12:37.06 | gregj | well, as soon as you start writing bigger apps, you depend on database much more |
| 12:37.41 | gregj | and as I leanrned from older ppl, more expierenced with oracle and others - that is the natural role of database |
| 12:38.04 | boudiccas | morsing; sorry? |
| 12:38.06 | gregj | not only provide you with a sack of potatoes - as I call it, that you are able to stick your potateos in, and get them out |
| 12:38.33 | morsing | boudiccas: Oh good, you're here. Start winding people up then |
| 12:38.33 | gregj | but also, it should make sure that data is inttact, that means foreign keys, etc. And also, proper retrieval, so - complicated queries, etc, etc |
| 12:38.58 | gregj | mysql never had that, and I am amazed how many ppl in the past that I knew claimed that they can do that just fine in software :) |
| 12:39.29 | gregj | only nice thing in mysql is that ithas replacebale backends |
| 12:39.41 | gregj | and you can even write your own one, that would do it the way you want |
| 12:40.11 | gregj | but, no atomic operations in queries, and so many bugs just make it not trust worthy. |
| 12:40.45 | morsing | What do you mean no atomic operations? |
| 12:41.17 | antiphase | sits back and watches the FUD roll past |
| 12:41.29 | gregj | for instance, I challenge anyone to write a query like the one I'll quote below, on a single table, database is few TBs in size. that queries output is directly used to plot a graph of network activity |
| 12:42.11 | gregj | http://gj.pastebin.com/d3cf70e68 |
| 12:42.13 | gregj | try it... |
| 12:42.50 | gregj | morsing: atomicity - guarantees that all operations in query are isolated, ie - if select has to retrieve data from few tables, and one of them changes - it won't affect that result half way through. |
| 12:43.32 | gregj | god, last time I checked mysql still didn't had natural joins.. |
| 12:43.47 | gregj | the way temporary tables and views are handled is very inefficient |
| 12:44.04 | gregj | (in case of view, it drops view's content to temporary table, and runs the outer bit of query on it) |
| 12:44.12 | gregj | and so on |
| 12:44.45 | gregj | I am sure mysql is useful to some ppl, because it is - but not in big applications, that require loads of complicated queries, and cross checkes to be performed. |
| 12:44.54 | gregj | and don't even get me started on extensibility... |
| 12:45.15 | gregj | calling me stuppid with my expierence, without any contrarguments - is just.. well, stuppid |
| 12:45.16 | morsing | Beer |
| 12:45.26 | gregj | so the guy just gained /ignore grant |
| 12:45.26 | gregj | :) |
| 12:45.29 | gregj | morsing: true |
| 12:45.35 | antiphase | MySQL does have transaction support these days |
| 12:45.35 | gregj | does it still snow in london ? |
| 12:45.51 | antiphase | Only since about 5 years ago, which is presumably the last time you looked at it |
| 12:45.59 | gregj | it just started to snow again here in Belfast |
| 13:10.56 | morsing | Beer |
| 14:02.13 | dick_turpin | wonders if its safe to come out of the bunker yet |
| 14:04.34 | ChoHag | Who on earth developed the parman recipe scheme? |
| 14:04.41 | ChoHag | I want whatever he was smoking. |
| 14:15.48 | gregj | partman ? |
| 14:17.46 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: :-* |
| 14:21.50 | boudiccas | yo dude |
| 14:22.08 | boudiccas | still got that crushed cigar i see :) |
| 14:26.39 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: Yeah I'd like to press something.. Oh wait ..... [Enter your response here] |
| 14:30.24 | boudiccas | you can press flowers in the summer |
| 14:30.58 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: ooh you little smarty pants, side stepped that one nicely |
| 14:31.27 | boudiccas | sorted out your trip to london yet? still going to see the show? [i've forgotten which one] |
| 14:33.12 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: Oh god don't! 1. Its her birthday March not Feb (oops) 2. Getting tickets is a nightmare! have to ring a number on Monday |
| 14:33.22 | boudiccas | tie a knot into your hamdkerchief to remind you of the phone call |
| 14:33.29 | boudiccas | *handkerchief |
| 14:33.52 | Leeds | I'm taking my young lady to Bangkok for the weekend (for the day, really) next week :-) |
| 14:33.58 | catalyst | bow chicka |
| 14:34.11 | boudiccas | catalyst; ? |
| 14:34.34 | catalyst | Sorry, I'm purile ;) it's the "I'm taking my young lady to Bangkok" but that got me |
| 14:34.37 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: It was my Phone that let me down, must have put it in wrong, Gmail has the correct date |
| 14:35.02 | Leeds | catalyst: "the young lady who is actually slightly older than me and who I've been seeing romantically for well over a year now" any better? |
| 14:35.09 | boudiccas | dick_turpin; how could you forget your wife's birthday? how could you? |
| 14:35.12 | catalyst | nah, you've missed it :) |
| 14:35.24 | catalyst | it's far less subtle than that XD |
| 14:36.41 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: I never do as the current exercise proves true its a month early. Now the misses has forgotten mine 3 times and never remembers our anniversary |
| 14:37.11 | boudiccas | sounds like she's suffering from amnesia |
| 14:37.35 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: More like she's trying to tell me something ;-) |
| 14:37.40 | boudiccas | :) |
| 14:47.09 | dick_turpin | Arggh Snow |
| 14:54.02 | boudiccas | what is this /snow/ you talk of? we have no /snow/ |
| 14:56.30 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: Started about 15 mins ago, 1 sec V fine the next V heavy. Is this the snow they promised us on Thursday? |
| 14:57.02 | boudiccas | we've had no snow over the past 24 hours, i'm most dissapointed |
| 14:57.04 | Leeds | snow? I put my aircon on earlier this evening because it was getting a bit sticky |
| 14:57.07 | *** join/#gllug mindbender (n=mindbend@94-194-128-38.zone8.bethere.co.uk) |
| 15:09.09 | eye69 | it snowed about 10cm here last night |
| 15:09.32 | Leeds | eye69! |
| 15:09.36 | eye69 | Leeds! |
| 15:10.24 | Leeds | long time no... oh, wait, about 14 hours :-) |
| 15:10.29 | eye69 | Heh |
| 15:20.25 | ChoHag | <zx64> ducktape is merely a physical manifestation of regexps |
| 15:27.15 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: The snow like Britain at the moment is pathetic |
| 15:31.54 | boudiccas | now i remember the big freeze of 1963-64, /that/ was a really cold winter |
| 15:32.55 | boudiccas | that was the winter that i cycled into a car coming towards me |
| 15:33.54 | boudiccas | my dad was driving up the loke next to our bungalow as i was going down said loke. we met in the middle and i fell off my bike.luckily both of us were going very slowly because it was so snowy and icy too |
| 15:43.25 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: When I lived in Milton Keynes I had a Honda 70 moped, I road to work (Newport Pagnell) and back home in the snow and ice, not a single problem until I went to get off outside my house when I fell over the bike fell on me and broke my leg! |
| 15:43.33 | dick_turpin | rodxe |
| 15:43.36 | dick_turpin | rode |
| 15:43.58 | boudiccas | dick_turpin; murphys law working then :) |
| 15:44.56 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: I worked for the health service then, why could it not happen as I arrived at work? 30 ft and I'd have been in a nice hospital bed! |
| 15:47.00 | boudiccas | hospital beds are haunted! when we opened our new unit and wards i was on nights, and i slpet in my break on an unmade bed in an empty bay. just as i was dozing off i heard an ambulance siren approaching and then dissapearing. i never did find out what caused the noise |
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| 17:04.58 | morsing | an0key1! |
| 17:58.49 | gregj | yawns |
| 18:15.04 | *** join/#gllug an0key (n=luke@82-34-223-29.cable.ubr01.sout.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 21:02.47 | morsing | an0key! |
| 21:40.17 | morsing | I'm hungry |
| 22:03.30 | morsing | Beer |
| 22:18.31 | morsing | G'night |
| 22:19.02 | morsing | *ahem* |
| 22:20.49 | hali | hm |
| 22:20.51 | morsing | G'night |
| 22:20.56 | hali | my finger hurts, been attacked by a baby sugar glider |
| 22:21.01 | morsing | hali: Twat |
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