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01:32.24 | *** topic/#gllug is Greater Longon LUG - http://www.gllug.org.uk | http://planet.gllug.org.uk |
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11:50.10 | DiscordianUK | wb |
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12:07.03 | z00dax | DiscordianUK: hi |
12:07.07 | z00dax | howse things with you |
12:07.54 | DiscordianUK | Hi z00dax, on the mend after a few weeks in hosptal |
12:07.58 | DiscordianUK | hospital |
12:08.01 | DiscordianUK | you? |
12:08.21 | z00dax | oh ? good to hear you are better now. |
12:08.41 | z00dax | I am great, married, and looking at places closer into the city to move into |
12:08.52 | DiscordianUK | diabetic complications, I'm afraid |
12:08.57 | DiscordianUK | Oh cool, congrats |
12:09.00 | z00dax | thanks |
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13:18.38 | toshiba510cdt | i have a booting problem on my ancient Pentium 133 MHz laptop running Lenny. can anyone help me? details are to be found on http://pastebin.ca/1350201 |
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14:30.31 | *** topic/#gllug is Greater Longon LUG - http://www.gllug.org.uk | http://planet.gllug.org.uk |
14:49.02 | gregj | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWE1tH93G9U&feature=related |
15:17.10 | gregj | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlfMsZwr8rc&feature=related |
15:17.11 | Leeds | Randi is cool :-) |
15:17.15 | gregj | that one is even better |
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16:39.02 | hali | well impressed |
16:39.07 | hali | upgraded my virgin suckband to 16mbit |
16:39.22 | hali | and it's actually downloading in 1100K/s |
16:39.33 | hali | compared to 700ish on 8mbit |
16:40.22 | hali | and only took 10 mins for them to sort out the change |
16:40.30 | Nafallo | hali: didn't you live close to a DC? ;-) |
16:40.45 | hali | hehe, a few :) |
16:40.49 | hali | im on leman street |
16:40.54 | Nafallo | lol |
16:41.00 | Nafallo | get a DF from BS? ;-) |
16:41.02 | hali | so level3 is across the road, got c&w on down |
16:41.23 | hali | bs? |
16:41.31 | Nafallo | Braham Street |
16:41.37 | hali | ah |
16:41.49 | hali | i should break in and sneak in my own wimax spot :P |
16:41.59 | Nafallo | haha |
16:42.10 | Nafallo | wonders if his access ever got revoked... |
16:42.33 | hali | doubt it |
16:42.39 | hali | those sort of companies always forget that |
16:42.46 | hali | i had my easynet access for about 3 years after i left |
16:42.53 | Nafallo | ha! |
16:43.06 | hali | left the company that used easynet, i didn't work for easynet *shrug* |
16:43.19 | Nafallo | hmm |
16:43.20 | Nafallo | food |
16:43.28 | hali | is making praw stir-fry |
16:43.51 | Nafallo | I'm not actually hungry yet, but I need something to drink :-P |
16:46.50 | Nafallo | :-) |
16:48.04 | Nafallo | The restaurant has ACCEPTED for 17:35 |
16:48.07 | Nafallo | win! |
16:48.29 | Nafallo | stuffed mushrooms, lasagne, strawberry cheesecake and 3L coke :-) |
16:48.33 | hali | order online? |
16:48.39 | Nafallo | ya |
16:48.43 | Nafallo | just-eat. |
16:48.59 | hali | way handy |
16:49.42 | Nafallo | indeed! :-) |
16:52.24 | hali | i've only ever ordered from pap johns via them |
16:52.30 | hali | papa* |
16:59.30 | AndyMillar | level3 randomly disable cards that haven't been used in a few months |
17:06.50 | catalyst | cards? |
17:08.01 | Nafallo | catalyst: access badges |
17:08.41 | AndyMillar | access cards |
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17:24.58 | *** topic/#gllug is Greater Longon LUG - http://www.gllug.org.uk | http://planet.gllug.org.uk |
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18:32.26 | toshiba510cdt | i have a 2 minute delay booting problem on my ancient Pentium 133 MHz laptop running Lenny. can anyone help me? details are to be found on http://pastebin.ca/1350201 |
18:35.03 | DiscordianUK | haha |
18:35.46 | antiphase | I think your machine is just really old and slow |
18:37.04 | toshiba510cdt | i mean during the booting process hangs for 2 minutes solid before continuing. i did NOT have that problem with etch so it NOT because the machine is old |
18:38.38 | DiscordianUK | i've no idea |
18:38.46 | antiphase | Use etch then. Even better, use Slackware from 1995 because it will probably run at an acceptable speed, unlike modern distros which are more suited to multi-GHz systems |
18:39.10 | DiscordianUK | amen |
18:39.15 | toshiba510cdt | <antiphase> running a non supported distro is a security hazard. |
18:39.23 | toshiba510cdt | and no way to help a newbie |
18:39.45 | boudiccas | toshiba510cdt; in what way is it of no help to a noobie? |
18:40.07 | DiscordianUK | Trying to run a modern distro on a 15 year old machine isn't going to work |
18:40.56 | DiscordianUK | Though of course you could try turning off stuff you don't need |
18:40.59 | DiscordianUK | Like X |
18:41.15 | antiphase | I put Lenny PPC on an Apple G4 Powercube the other day, and it was practically unusable, and that's a 450MHz CPU and many times more RAM than you have |
18:41.50 | toshiba510cdt | DiscordianUK> the issue is not the machine running slowly. in fact, my laptop runs a bit faster now. it is a problem with booting the os, not running it! |
18:42.06 | DiscordianUK | Linux is beginning to suffer as badly as Windows with bloat |
18:42.37 | DiscordianUK | What point in booting does it hang? |
18:42.56 | ChoHag | Only if you install crap on it. |
18:43.18 | DiscordianUK | FSVO crap |
18:52.21 | toshiba510cdt | details are to be found on http://pastebin.ca/1350201 |
18:53.23 | eye69 | Evening |
18:55.09 | toshiba510cdt | i repeat my ancient laptop is a bit faster and more responsive now running the latest version of debian than when running the old one AND with the same apps installed! |
18:55.40 | toshiba510cdt | the problem i have with lenny is with booting the os, not running it! |
18:58.10 | toshiba510cdt | <antiphase> i am very happy with lenny and it is somewhat slow compared with running it on a friend's PIII 500 MHz laptop but definitely not unusable! |
18:58.42 | DiscordianUK | Well the problem I assume is , I know nowt about your distro, is that lenny uses udev and etch used the old /dev methods |
18:59.20 | DiscordianUK | and it looks like once you have it running you need to add a or some rules to udev to detect your hardware |
18:59.45 | toshiba510cdt | <DiscordianUK> i used udev on etch and did not have that problem |
19:00.28 | DiscordianUK | All I can see from your paste is ude timing out |
19:00.36 | DiscordianUK | udevd |
19:00.42 | toshiba510cdt | how can this newbie solve the problem? |
19:01.08 | DiscordianUK | re-install etch? |
19:01.28 | toshiba510cdt | how can this newbie solve the problem keeping lenny? |
19:02.27 | DiscordianUK | Have you tried asking on a channel that deals with that distro/ |
19:02.40 | toshiba510cdt | yes, twice today |
19:03.03 | toshiba510cdt | and in 2 languages |
19:03.17 | DiscordianUK | what do you get in dmesg's log after it's booted? |
19:04.52 | toshiba510cdt | what shall i look for? |
19:05.07 | DiscordianUK | errors |
19:06.52 | toshiba510cdt | what sort of error? log wise, what constitutes an error? |
19:08.06 | DiscordianUK | You'll have to do what I'd do |
19:08.15 | DiscordianUK | Look though the log |
19:08.23 | DiscordianUK | See what each entry means |
19:08.42 | DiscordianUK | Look it up on the web if you don't understand it |
19:11.19 | toshiba510cdt | <DiscordianUK> that would take several hours or days and that is not a newbie friendly solution |
19:11.43 | z00dax | what is the actual problem you have ? |
19:11.45 | antiphase | Ha ha |
19:11.52 | DiscordianUK | We all have to learn dear chap |
19:13.03 | z00dax | or has the conversation not got that far as to have identified a real problem |
19:13.08 | toshiba510cdt | <DiscordianUK> yes, learning the basics of command line is OK but log studying is a very cryptic art |
19:13.23 | DiscordianUK | All I can see is that some plug n play bit of hardware is timing out via udevd |
19:13.41 | DiscordianUK | and causing you an alleged two minute boot delay |
19:14.02 | DiscordianUK | I'd have thought 2 mins was nothing on a 133Mhz cpu |
19:14.39 | Nafallo | remember installing gentoo on a 233MHz... took a week before I had fluxbox |
19:14.53 | toshiba510cdt | methinks it would be better to dump the whole boot message onto the pastebin |
19:15.08 | DiscordianUK | There's a saying round these parts : yer gets what yer paid for |
19:15.39 | toshiba510cdt | <DiscordianUK> a 2 minute booting delay. the whole booting process takes about 5 min |
19:15.56 | z00dax | toshiba510cdt: why can you not see on the screen where its 'pausing' - alternatively, if its not real issue, just dont shut the laptop down ever, use suspend and hibernate |
19:16.31 | toshiba510cdt | with etch, the whole booting process lasted 2 minutes in total |
19:18.09 | DiscordianUK | I dunno about lenny but on my system I can get it to show me in detail what it's doing during bootup |
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19:18.21 | DiscordianUK | That's the info we need from you |
19:18.22 | toshiba510cdt | <z00dax> suspend & hibernate on a Pentium 133 MHz? the laptop is not a server. i shut it down when i no longer needed it up and running |
19:18.34 | Nafallo | ehrm |
19:18.46 | Nafallo | suspend & hibernate on a server!?!? o_O |
19:19.00 | Nafallo | waitwhatwhy!? |
19:19.05 | toshiba510cdt | <Nafallo> not on server. |
19:19.41 | Nafallo | toshiba510cdt: exactly. I've never heard of reasons to suspend or hibernate servers... LAPTOPS however... ;-) |
19:19.45 | Nafallo | just saying |
19:20.06 | toshiba510cdt | z00dax said why don't i keep the laptop on all the time. i said i shut it down when i no longer needed it up and running |
19:20.20 | Nafallo | anyway. that pastebin doesn't include enough info for any kind of diagnostics what so ever. |
19:20.46 | DiscordianUK | quite |
19:21.07 | toshiba510cdt | <Nafallo> ok, i will copy and paste the whole dmesg thing |
19:21.27 | z00dax | toshiba510cdt: hibernate will also shut it down completely, with a state saved in the swap areas ( if you use that ) |
19:21.51 | z00dax | if you only not-need it for short periods of time, suspend is better, since you get instant on - at the cost of a few watts of used electric all the time |
19:22.06 | z00dax | also, no one ever suspends or hibernates a server, these things are all laptop centric |
19:22.21 | toshiba510cdt | <z00dax> i meant shut the laptop down and unplugging the electricity cable |
19:22.29 | z00dax | hibernate will do that |
19:22.41 | z00dax | it saves, as said, a state of the machine's RAM onto disk |
19:22.47 | z00dax | then *poof*, lights out |
19:23.27 | toshiba510cdt | z00dax, what is wrong with shutting the laptop down and unplugging the mains cable? |
19:23.47 | z00dax | its a waste of time and achieves nothing but longer bootup time the next time you need it. |
19:23.51 | Nafallo | 5 minute bootup apparently ;-) |
19:24.21 | DiscordianUK | Are we being trolled? |
19:25.48 | toshiba510cdt | <Nafallo> that is a problem that can be solved. shutting the laptop down, unplugging the cable and saving energy can not be that wrong |
19:26.36 | Nafallo | toshiba510cdt: can you get back to the problem if you don't want the work around please. that will involve you spending days googling your logfiles if needed ;-) |
19:27.10 | toshiba510cdt | Nafallo: i simply canot have that ancient laptop on 247 |
19:27.34 | DiscordianUK | If it ran etch okay why not use etch? |
19:27.49 | z00dax | toshiba510cdt: ok, fair enough - we can come back to that later. I think Nafallo is following a more apt line at the moment... |
19:28.14 | DiscordianUK | Yeah let's see dmesg please |
19:28.36 | toshiba510cdt | <DiscordianUK> etch will be unsupported soon and with lenny i have more recent software and a believe it or not a bit more speed! |
19:28.53 | toshiba510cdt | ok |
19:28.58 | Nafallo | doesn't Debian allow half a year or a year support for old-stable ? |
19:29.10 | Nafallo | anyway. out of interest if you've already upgraded :-) |
19:30.03 | Nafallo | wonders if we have any DDs in the channel |
19:30.14 | DiscordianUK | DDs? |
19:30.20 | Nafallo | Debian Developers |
19:30.27 | Nafallo | jpds: !!! |
19:30.30 | DiscordianUK | Not I |
19:36.22 | hali | you mean, pwcoic's |
19:36.35 | hali | people who comment out important code :) |
19:36.47 | DiscordianUK | heh |
19:36.49 | Nafallo | hali: you troll you! ;-) |
19:37.03 | hali | ack |
19:37.21 | hali | almost as bad as the kerberos telnet exploit in solaris |
19:37.48 | DiscordianUK | Lol |
19:38.13 | DiscordianUK | 10 out of 10 if you run djbdns though |
19:41.44 | DiscordianUK | So about dmesg? |
19:45.05 | ChoHag | hali they only comment out the bits they don't understand. |
19:49.24 | toshiba510cdt | please see http://pastebin.ca/1350408 |
19:52.03 | Nafallo | cute. |
19:52.17 | toshiba510cdt | <Nafallo> thank you |
19:52.29 | Nafallo | the modprobe of the sound card looks to cause a kernel bug. |
19:52.34 | toshiba510cdt | not bad for a newbie, heh? |
19:52.46 | Nafallo | try blacklisting the module and see what happens? :-) |
19:53.29 | hali | damn, im well impressed with anything recent actually booting on that |
19:53.29 | toshiba510cdt | sorry in English, please? or better still in plain Spanish, por favor |
19:53.55 | Nafallo | toshiba510cdt: I can do Swedish if you like? |
19:54.08 | toshiba510cdt | no thanks, Spanish will do |
19:54.28 | DiscordianUK | Interesting have a look at : http://kerneltrap.org/node/8306 |
19:56.19 | DiscordianUK | One suggestion seems to be adding 'notsc' to the kernel line |
19:56.51 | DiscordianUK | It's clearly losing approx 2 mins setting the time from the onboard clock |
19:58.12 | jpds | Nafallo: ???? |
19:59.03 | Nafallo | jpds: hi Debian guy. you have a Debian user here that hates the newest release, and he prefers Spanish ;-) |
19:59.03 | jpds | Nafallo: No, I only have a package in Debian at this point. |
19:59.33 | toshiba510cdt | <DiscordianUK> is the issue i encountered easily solved by a newbie? or is it perhaps that i encountered a kernel issue that kernel developers deal with or your distro "support" or documentation should tell you about? |
20:00.27 | toshiba510cdt | <Nafallo> i do NOT hate the latest version of debian |
20:01.02 | toshiba510cdt | but I do prefer Spanish though ;) |
20:01.21 | DiscordianUK | I merely googled the line about tsc |
20:01.38 | DiscordianUK | You could have done that easily enough |
20:01.49 | DiscordianUK | isn't a kernel developer |
20:02.36 | toshiba510cdt | is the info on http://kerneltrap.org/node/8306 easily understood by newbies? |
20:03.34 | DiscordianUK | I dunno mate, I've been using linux since 1992 |
20:04.16 | toshiba510cdt | 17 years of using linux certainly means you are no newbie |
20:04.42 | toshiba510cdt | linux the kernel and or gnu/linux |
20:05.12 | DiscordianUK | Don't understand the question? |
20:05.41 | DiscordianUK | 17 years ago Linux was a lot different to today |
20:06.27 | DiscordianUK | It was a lot more BSDish than it is today |
20:06.44 | DiscordianUK | I call it Linux, I'm not of the Debian persuasion |
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22:10.39 | toshiba510cdt | I tried clocksource=acpi_pm and the problem remained the same |
22:12.08 | toshiba510cdt | I tried clocksource=notsc and the problem remained the same |
22:12.16 | toshiba510cdt | I tried clocksource=pits and the problem remained the same |
22:12.40 | toshiba510cdt | I tried clocksource=jiffies and the problem remained the same |
22:17.26 | toshiba510cdt | cat /sys/devices/system/clocksource/clocksource0/available_clocksource says pit jiffies tsc |
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