IRC log for #gllug on 20090301

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01:32.24*** topic/#gllug is Greater Longon LUG - http://www.gllug.org.uk | http://planet.gllug.org.uk
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10:13.04*** topic/#gllug is Greater Longon LUG - http://www.gllug.org.uk | http://planet.gllug.org.uk
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11:50.10DiscordianUKwb
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12:07.03z00daxDiscordianUK: hi
12:07.07z00daxhowse things with you
12:07.54DiscordianUKHi z00dax, on the mend after a few weeks in hosptal
12:07.58DiscordianUKhospital
12:08.01DiscordianUKyou?
12:08.21z00daxoh ? good to hear you are better now.
12:08.41z00daxI am great, married, and looking at places closer into the city to move into
12:08.52DiscordianUKdiabetic complications, I'm afraid
12:08.57DiscordianUKOh cool, congrats
12:09.00z00daxthanks
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13:18.38toshiba510cdti have a booting problem on my ancient Pentium 133 MHz laptop running Lenny. can anyone help me? details are to be found on  http://pastebin.ca/1350201
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14:30.31*** topic/#gllug is Greater Longon LUG - http://www.gllug.org.uk | http://planet.gllug.org.uk
14:49.02gregjhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWE1tH93G9U&feature=related
15:17.10gregjhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlfMsZwr8rc&feature=related
15:17.11LeedsRandi is cool :-)
15:17.15gregjthat one is even better
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16:39.02haliwell impressed
16:39.07haliupgraded my virgin suckband to 16mbit
16:39.22haliand it's actually downloading in 1100K/s
16:39.33halicompared to 700ish on 8mbit
16:40.22haliand only took 10 mins for them to sort out the change
16:40.30Nafallohali: didn't you live close to a DC? ;-)
16:40.45halihehe, a few :)
16:40.49haliim on leman street
16:40.54Nafallolol
16:41.00Nafalloget a DF from BS? ;-)
16:41.02haliso level3 is across the road, got c&w on down
16:41.23halibs?
16:41.31NafalloBraham Street
16:41.37haliah
16:41.49halii should break in and sneak in my own wimax spot :P
16:41.59Nafallohaha
16:42.10Nafallowonders if his access ever got revoked...
16:42.33halidoubt it
16:42.39halithose sort of companies always forget that
16:42.46halii had my easynet access for about 3 years after i left
16:42.53Nafalloha!
16:43.06halileft the company that used easynet, i didn't work for easynet *shrug*
16:43.19Nafallohmm
16:43.20Nafallofood
16:43.28haliis making praw stir-fry
16:43.51NafalloI'm not actually hungry yet, but I need something to drink :-P
16:46.50Nafallo:-)
16:48.04NafalloThe restaurant has ACCEPTED for 17:35
16:48.07Nafallowin!
16:48.29Nafallostuffed mushrooms, lasagne, strawberry cheesecake and 3L coke :-)
16:48.33haliorder online?
16:48.39Nafalloya
16:48.43Nafallojust-eat.
16:48.59haliway handy
16:49.42Nafalloindeed! :-)
16:52.24halii've only ever ordered from pap johns via them
16:52.30halipapa*
16:59.30AndyMillarlevel3 randomly disable cards that haven't been used in a few months
17:06.50catalystcards?
17:08.01Nafallocatalyst: access badges
17:08.41AndyMillaraccess cards
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17:24.58*** topic/#gllug is Greater Longon LUG - http://www.gllug.org.uk | http://planet.gllug.org.uk
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18:32.26toshiba510cdti have a 2 minute delay   booting problem on my ancient Pentium 133 MHz laptop running Lenny. can anyone help me? details are to be found on  http://pastebin.ca/1350201
18:35.03DiscordianUKhaha
18:35.46antiphaseI think your machine is just really old and slow
18:37.04toshiba510cdti mean during the booting process hangs for 2 minutes solid before continuing. i did NOT have that problem with etch so it NOT because the machine is old
18:38.38DiscordianUKi've no idea
18:38.46antiphaseUse etch then. Even better, use Slackware from 1995 because it will probably run at an acceptable speed, unlike modern distros which are more suited to multi-GHz systems
18:39.10DiscordianUKamen
18:39.15toshiba510cdt<antiphase> running a non supported distro is a security hazard.
18:39.23toshiba510cdtand no way to help a newbie
18:39.45boudiccastoshiba510cdt; in what way is it of no help to a noobie?
18:40.07DiscordianUKTrying to run a modern distro on a 15 year old machine isn't going to work
18:40.56DiscordianUKThough of course you could try turning off stuff you don't need
18:40.59DiscordianUKLike X
18:41.15antiphaseI put Lenny PPC on an Apple G4 Powercube the other day, and it was practically unusable, and that's a 450MHz CPU and many times more RAM than you have
18:41.50toshiba510cdtDiscordianUK> the issue is not the machine running slowly. in fact, my laptop runs a bit faster now. it is a problem with booting the os, not running it!
18:42.06DiscordianUKLinux is beginning to suffer as badly as Windows with bloat
18:42.37DiscordianUKWhat point in booting does it hang?
18:42.56ChoHagOnly if you install crap on it.
18:43.18DiscordianUKFSVO crap
18:52.21toshiba510cdtdetails are to be found on  http://pastebin.ca/1350201
18:53.23eye69Evening
18:55.09toshiba510cdti repeat my ancient laptop is a bit faster and more responsive now running the latest version of debian than when running the old one AND with the same apps installed!
18:55.40toshiba510cdtthe problem i have with lenny  is with booting the os, not running it!
18:58.10toshiba510cdt<antiphase> i am very happy with lenny and it is somewhat slow compared with running it on a friend's PIII 500 MHz laptop but definitely not unusable!
18:58.42DiscordianUKWell the problem I assume is , I know nowt about your distro, is that lenny uses udev and etch used the old /dev methods
18:59.20DiscordianUKand it looks like once you have it running you need to add a or some rules to udev to detect your hardware
18:59.45toshiba510cdt<DiscordianUK> i used udev on etch and did not have that problem
19:00.28DiscordianUKAll I can see from your paste is ude timing out
19:00.36DiscordianUKudevd
19:00.42toshiba510cdthow can this newbie solve the problem?
19:01.08DiscordianUKre-install etch?
19:01.28toshiba510cdthow can this newbie solve the problem keeping lenny?
19:02.27DiscordianUKHave you tried asking on a channel that deals with that distro/
19:02.40toshiba510cdtyes, twice today
19:03.03toshiba510cdtand in 2 languages
19:03.17DiscordianUKwhat do you get in dmesg's log after it's booted?
19:04.52toshiba510cdtwhat shall i look for?
19:05.07DiscordianUKerrors
19:06.52toshiba510cdtwhat sort of error? log wise, what constitutes an error?
19:08.06DiscordianUKYou'll have to do what I'd do
19:08.15DiscordianUKLook though the log
19:08.23DiscordianUKSee what each entry means
19:08.42DiscordianUKLook it up on the web if you don't understand it
19:11.19toshiba510cdt<DiscordianUK> that would take several hours or days and that is not a newbie friendly solution
19:11.43z00daxwhat is the actual problem you have ?
19:11.45antiphaseHa ha
19:11.52DiscordianUKWe all have to learn dear chap
19:13.03z00daxor has the conversation not got that far as to have identified a real problem
19:13.08toshiba510cdt<DiscordianUK> yes, learning the basics of command line is OK  but log studying is a very cryptic art
19:13.23DiscordianUKAll I can see is that some plug n play bit of hardware is timing out via udevd
19:13.41DiscordianUKand causing you an alleged two minute boot delay
19:14.02DiscordianUKI'd have thought 2 mins was nothing on a 133Mhz cpu
19:14.39Nafalloremember installing gentoo on a 233MHz... took a week before I had fluxbox
19:14.53toshiba510cdtmethinks it would be better to dump the whole boot message onto the pastebin
19:15.08DiscordianUKThere's a saying round these parts  : yer gets what yer paid for
19:15.39toshiba510cdt<DiscordianUK> a 2 minute booting delay. the whole booting process takes about 5 min
19:15.56z00daxtoshiba510cdt: why can you not see on the screen where its 'pausing' - alternatively, if its not real issue, just dont shut the laptop down ever, use suspend and hibernate
19:16.31toshiba510cdtwith etch, the whole booting process lasted 2 minutes in total
19:18.09DiscordianUKI dunno about lenny but on my system I can get it to show me in detail what it's doing during bootup
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19:18.21DiscordianUKThat's the info we need from you
19:18.22toshiba510cdt<z00dax> suspend & hibernate on a Pentium 133 MHz? the laptop is not a server. i shut it down when i no longer needed it up and running
19:18.34Nafalloehrm
19:18.46Nafallosuspend & hibernate on a server!?!? o_O
19:19.00Nafallowaitwhatwhy!?
19:19.05toshiba510cdt<Nafallo> not on server.
19:19.41Nafallotoshiba510cdt: exactly. I've never heard of reasons to suspend or hibernate servers... LAPTOPS however... ;-)
19:19.45Nafallojust saying
19:20.06toshiba510cdtz00dax said why don't i keep the laptop on all the time. i said  i shut it down when i no longer needed it up and running
19:20.20Nafalloanyway. that pastebin doesn't include enough info for any kind of diagnostics what so ever.
19:20.46DiscordianUKquite
19:21.07toshiba510cdt<Nafallo> ok, i will copy and paste the whole dmesg thing
19:21.27z00daxtoshiba510cdt: hibernate will also shut it down completely, with a state saved in the swap areas ( if you use that )
19:21.51z00daxif you only not-need it for short periods of time, suspend is better, since you get instant on - at the cost of a few watts of used electric all the time
19:22.06z00daxalso, no one ever suspends or hibernates a server, these things are all laptop centric
19:22.21toshiba510cdt<z00dax> i meant shut the laptop down and unplugging the electricity cable
19:22.29z00daxhibernate will do that
19:22.41z00daxit saves, as said, a state of the machine's RAM onto disk
19:22.47z00daxthen *poof*, lights out
19:23.27toshiba510cdtz00dax, what is wrong with shutting the laptop down and unplugging the mains cable?
19:23.47z00daxits a waste of time and achieves nothing but  longer bootup time the next time you need it.
19:23.51Nafallo5 minute bootup apparently ;-)
19:24.21DiscordianUKAre we being trolled?
19:25.48toshiba510cdt<Nafallo> that is a problem that can be solved. shutting the laptop down, unplugging the cable and saving energy can not be that wrong
19:26.36Nafallotoshiba510cdt: can you get back to the problem if you don't want the work around please. that will involve you spending days googling your logfiles if needed ;-)
19:27.10toshiba510cdtNafallo: i simply canot have that ancient laptop on 247
19:27.34DiscordianUKIf it ran etch okay why not use etch?
19:27.49z00daxtoshiba510cdt: ok, fair enough - we can come back to that later. I think Nafallo is following a more apt line at the moment...
19:28.14DiscordianUKYeah let's see dmesg please
19:28.36toshiba510cdt<DiscordianUK> etch will be unsupported soon and with lenny i have more recent software and a believe it or not a bit more speed!
19:28.53toshiba510cdtok
19:28.58Nafallodoesn't Debian allow half a year or a year support for old-stable ?
19:29.10Nafalloanyway. out of interest if you've already upgraded :-)
19:30.03Nafallowonders if we have any DDs in the channel
19:30.14DiscordianUKDDs?
19:30.20NafalloDebian Developers
19:30.27Nafallojpds: !!!
19:30.30DiscordianUKNot I
19:36.22haliyou mean, pwcoic's
19:36.35halipeople who comment out important code :)
19:36.47DiscordianUKheh
19:36.49Nafallohali: you troll you! ;-)
19:37.03haliack
19:37.21halialmost as bad as the kerberos telnet exploit in solaris
19:37.48DiscordianUKLol
19:38.13DiscordianUK10 out of 10 if you run djbdns though
19:41.44DiscordianUKSo about dmesg?
19:45.05ChoHaghali they only comment out the bits they don't understand.
19:49.24toshiba510cdtplease see http://pastebin.ca/1350408
19:52.03Nafallocute.
19:52.17toshiba510cdt<Nafallo> thank you
19:52.29Nafallothe modprobe of the sound card looks to cause a kernel bug.
19:52.34toshiba510cdtnot bad for a newbie, heh?
19:52.46Nafallotry blacklisting the module and see what happens? :-)
19:53.29halidamn, im well impressed with anything recent actually booting on that
19:53.29toshiba510cdtsorry in English, please? or better still in plain Spanish, por favor
19:53.55Nafallotoshiba510cdt: I can do Swedish if you like?
19:54.08toshiba510cdtno thanks, Spanish will do
19:54.28DiscordianUKInteresting have a look at : http://kerneltrap.org/node/8306
19:56.19DiscordianUKOne suggestion seems to be adding 'notsc' to the kernel line
19:56.51DiscordianUKIt's clearly losing approx 2 mins setting the time from the onboard clock
19:58.12jpdsNafallo: ????
19:59.03Nafallojpds: hi Debian guy. you have a Debian user here that hates the newest release, and he prefers Spanish ;-)
19:59.03jpdsNafallo: No, I only have a package in Debian at this point.
19:59.33toshiba510cdt<DiscordianUK> is the issue i encountered easily solved by a newbie? or is it perhaps that i encountered a kernel issue that kernel developers deal with or your distro "support" or documentation should tell you about?
20:00.27toshiba510cdt<Nafallo> i do NOT hate the latest version of debian
20:01.02toshiba510cdtbut I do prefer Spanish though ;)
20:01.21DiscordianUKI merely googled the line about tsc
20:01.38DiscordianUKYou could have done that easily enough
20:01.49DiscordianUKisn't a kernel developer
20:02.36toshiba510cdtis the info on http://kerneltrap.org/node/8306  easily understood by newbies?
20:03.34DiscordianUKI dunno mate, I've been using linux since 1992
20:04.16toshiba510cdt17 years of using linux certainly means you are no newbie
20:04.42toshiba510cdtlinux the kernel and or gnu/linux
20:05.12DiscordianUKDon't understand the question?
20:05.41DiscordianUK17 years ago Linux was a lot different to today
20:06.27DiscordianUKIt was a lot more BSDish than it is today
20:06.44DiscordianUKI call it Linux, I'm not of the Debian persuasion
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22:10.39toshiba510cdtI tried clocksource=acpi_pm   and the problem remained the same
22:12.08toshiba510cdtI tried clocksource=notsc   and the problem remained the same
22:12.16toshiba510cdtI tried clocksource=pits  and the problem remained the same
22:12.40toshiba510cdtI tried clocksource=jiffies  and the problem remained the same
22:17.26toshiba510cdtcat /sys/devices/system/clocksource/clocksource0/available_clocksource    says  pit  jiffies tsc
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