IRC log for #gllug on 20090326

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07:44.54j0nrmorning all
08:38.12bilarhmy people
09:16.47Mohanmorning.
09:19.40j0nrso who's going to tell me what happened to morsing?
09:20.47Mohanj0nr: he was here yesterday
09:21.30Mohanhe said that he finds some people as rude in this channel, and been busy lately
09:21.52Mohanthats the reason why he is not coming often.
09:26.13bilarhwhat's peoples opinion on buying a house at the moment?
09:28.21Mohanbilarh: if you have the cash, its the right time to buy it :d
09:28.38bilarhi don't have all the cash, naturally
09:28.57z00daxholding off for a year or so; seems to be what most people are doing
09:29.25bilarhmmm
09:29.37bilarhi was planning that as well
09:29.57bilarhbut this quantative easing and failed government bond auction yesterday has made me a bit worried
09:30.03Mohanbut its like as of now properties in average like 20000£ or more less
09:30.31Mohanif the stimulus in US picks up, the prices would go up
09:30.34bilarhi'd quite like to be out of cash sooner than 12 months now
09:30.43Mohanits more or less a gamble.
09:31.43bilarhi'm viewing "realistically" priced houses now, and i might put in offers of around 80% of asking price
09:31.49bilarhi.e repos sold by banks
09:31.59Mohanz00dax: Is there a place where i can get some good documents about RHCS/GFS  apart from the manual ?
09:32.58z00daxMohan: the docs are good, apart from that - just use it.
09:33.05Mohanif you are lucky houses prices around 280,000 you can quote an offer from 245-250,000 and you can still get it.
09:33.13z00daxlinux-cluster on irc / mailing list are also good resources
09:33.30bilarhnobody will bid more than 250k on a house that is priced under 300k imo
09:33.40bilarhthis is due to stamp duty going up to 3% at 250
09:33.42z00daxnot at the moment
09:33.44bilarhbefore that it's only 1k
09:33.48bilarhsorry, 1%
09:33.57Mohanyeah, thats true
09:33.57wethrinI'd personally wait another 6 months or so. OTOH, if you can get a low offer accepted, go for it
09:34.00z00daxquite a lot of people feel that 10% + brick cost of a place is a fair price these days
09:34.02wethrinAssuming you can get a mortgage
09:34.15Mohanbut you can still get the stampduty for 250,000 and pay the rest in cash
09:34.15bilarhz00dax: so that's like 50k for most houses :D
09:34.37bilarhmohan: that's a lot harder than it used to be... the ILR have wised up
09:34.49Mohanwhich would save you 5K for stamp duty.
09:34.51bilarhgot a mortgage sorted out already
09:34.58z00daxbilarh: anything more than that, and you are quoting prices that have no relevance to the real value of a property
09:35.17bilarhz00dax: well, there's still some utility value to be had IMO
09:35.45z00daxyes, but its fading fast :)
09:35.49Mohanz00dax: thanks.
09:35.52bilarhz00dax: i'm looking at it from the point of view of renting a similar property as well... it's not starting to look *TOO* bad to buy actually
09:35.59bilarhon the other hand, i also think prices will keep falling
09:36.16bilarh*OR* we will get hyperinflation which will destroy my deposit
09:36.19wethrinAren't they falling less than they did
09:36.21wethrin?
09:36.30bilarhnah still falling really quite fast indeed
09:36.53wethrinOnce house prices reach some level, then market forces will start driving them back up - when everyone thinks they're cheap enough to move up to a new property
09:37.24bilarhwe're looking at 20% off peak already actually
09:37.27bilarhin achieved sold prices
09:37.44bilarhi.e. a 25% rise has been wiped out
09:38.19bilarhwethrin: prices stayed flat for the most of the early mid 90's
09:38.24bilarh(1992-1996'ish)
09:39.31z00daxprices in bexley / swanley / hextable / willmington are down about 30% on average
09:39.40bilarhis that asking prices?
09:39.51z00daxthe smaller ones lesser so - but the million odd pound country homes are down upto 35%
09:39.55z00daxbilarh: yeah
09:39.58bilarhoh btw, if anyone is looking at rightmove, you *need* to install the property bee plugin
09:40.04bilarhwww.property-bee.com
09:40.06bilarhit's fucking fantastic
09:40.11bilarhshows the rightmove history of a property
09:40.15bilarhwhen there were price reductions
09:40.18bilarhhow long it's been on the market
09:40.26z00daxyou can prolly get a 6 bed home, with an acre backyard on the darenth for under 450k
09:40.26bilarhwhat changes have been made to the descriptino etc etc
09:40.43bilarhbrilliant for picking out houses that have been on the market for 6+ months (and there's *LOADS* of houses like that)
09:41.14bilarhz00dax: in london(ish) areas?
09:41.25bilarhswanley isn't too far from where i'm looking at the moment
09:41.34bilarhi'm sniffing around st mary cray, orpington
09:41.46bilarhand having bromley, chislehurst and hayes as a couple of dark horses
09:41.58bilarhalthough prices in the last three are a lot higher than in orpington'ish areas
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09:44.15z00daxfoots cray -> swaney zone, sure. its only 10 min or less on the road from mary's cray
09:44.38bilarhwhat's your opinion on the general area around there?
09:44.38z00daxchislehurst has the other side of being a very slow moving area, most people living there own their place, and have done so for a long time.
09:45.12z00daxorpington is a dive, as is most of swanley. but there are nice areas in the middle. like petts wood. and the areas around chislehurst
09:45.57z00daxthe other thing is that most of sidcup has a '5 - 11' score on propmatch, but if you look around, the south side of sidcup has some fairly nice places, and not very expensive
09:45.59*** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk)
09:46.16bilarhwhat's propmatch?
09:46.29z00daxits that thing that those thingies do with those things
09:46.40bilarhoh right
09:46.41z00daxacorn and experian mosaic mashed with some govt supplied data
09:46.45bilarhlike acorn raintgs?
09:51.29mindbendrmorning
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10:02.24bilarhinterestingly, a 5 year fixed mortgage is only a teeny bit more expensive than a 2 year one
10:07.27LeedsI'm not quite sure how I managed it, but I seem to have a pretty good deal on my mortgage: base rate + 0.85%
10:07.39bilarhhehe good for you :)
10:07.47bilarhthat's an ace deal :D
10:08.11bilarhare you looking at switching to a fixed at some point?
10:08.13Leedsit's amazing at the moment, but even when rates go higher it still seems to compare pretty well with fixed-rates
10:08.33bilarhi think rates could move quite a bit quite quickly, though
10:09.27Leedswell, what sort of fixed rates are available?
10:09.51bilarhdepends on your ltv, but seeing as you've had your flat for a good while, i'd expect you'd be able to find something like 3.5%
10:10.32Leedsnot too bad... I think I'll stay where I am for the moment :-)
10:11.03Leedsthe rent coming in is almost exactly twice my current mortgage payment
10:11.14bilarhthat's brilliant
10:11.55Leedstake off agents fees and so on and it's still working out pretty well
10:12.36bilarhdoes that mean you made a loss on the rent when baserates were like 5%?
10:13.18Leedsnope, but it was pretty close to break-even at that point
10:13.30Leedsmaybe a small loss
10:13.46Leedsmy rent was also higher last year, by a few %
10:21.27bilarhhmm, leeds bs are doing a 5.25% 5 year fix for 85% ltv
10:21.36bilarhthat would almost be manageable
10:21.48Leedsltv?
10:21.54bilarhloan to value
10:22.09bilarhi want to be in a position where *one* crap paying job will pay for the mortgage + bills, even if it'd be a struggle
10:22.17bilarhnot where we'd both need to be working good jobs
10:22.23Leedsoh, I only need about 40%-45% unless I want to pull some value out :-)
10:22.38bilarhexactly, which is why you can get deals of about 3% fix :)
10:26.26Leedsah, okay
10:27.06*** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk)
10:27.23Leedsanyway, hometime
10:31.00DiscordianUKMorning
10:32.10bilarhmorn
10:57.24z00daxdont think I quite get the whole .tel thing
10:59.50ChoHagtel?
10:59.57z00daxwww.nic.tel
11:00.26z00daxofcourse you cant have an A record under that zone, so they dont have a website :)
11:06.17ChoHagThe minimum number of characters in a .tel domain is 3 and the maximum number is 63 not including the .tel suffix.
11:06.20ChoHagWell that's clear.
11:07.01kjsMorning
11:07.33ChoHagIt looks utterly pointless.
11:07.51ChoHagLargely because I can't see anything that's not in marketspeak.
11:08.00z00daxI am sure its a great idea - just store info in the domain record itself. but isnt that why god made websites ?
11:10.33z00daxhow does one send a Stop+A over  serial console to a netra machine ?
11:10.38kjswhat happened to morsing?
11:10.43wethrinF5 is a break
11:11.03z00daxtries
11:11.13z00dax<PROTECTED>
11:11.24z00dax^ thats what F5 in minicom gives me
11:11.34wethrinOh, minicom....there should be a 'Send break' option somewhere
11:12.08z00daxah. CTRL+A+F
11:12.11z00daxtries
11:12.49ChoHagCTRL+A F
11:12.56ChoHagNot +F
11:14.01z00daxyeah, that
11:14.04z00daxis not happy
11:17.48z00daxI wonder if this machine is somehow setup to not accept brk on serial con
11:17.58wethrinit's possible
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11:22.26z00daxok, so there is such a setting :)
11:22.30z00daxI should stop looking then
11:24.16wethrinWhich OS are you running?
11:24.59z00daxLinux
11:25.13wethrinAh. I think that ignores serial console breaks
11:25.16wethrinOpenBSD does
11:25.23z00daxon both ends of the line, sparc on both ends too. a b1000 on one end and a t2000 on the other
11:25.24wethrinSolaris doesn't, by default
11:25.37ChoHagby default
11:25.54z00daxi need to powercycle the t2k
11:26.05z00dax<PROTECTED>
11:26.07ChoHagThe few times I've allowed it to watch for brk I've ended up hanging the system when kicking the cable.
11:26.19z00daxthats what it does to me on login, since there is no disk under the hood.
11:26.35ChoHagNot at it physically?
11:26.50ChoHagIt's an old one, but try '<CR>~.'
11:26.58ChoHagI think it's squiggle dot...
11:27.13antiphaseOr ~#
11:27.15wethrinThat's the ssh hangup
11:27.53z00daxChoHag: no, the pair are in australia. and it could be weeks before anyone can get to the machines physically
11:27.56ChoHagAh google suggests #.
11:27.57Leeds"As someone who has purchased or rated books by William Gibson, you might like to know that "Spook Country [Braille]: Grade 2" will be released on 2 April 2009."
11:28.12wethrinAmazon's great, innit?
11:28.29Leedsnot entirely, in this case...
11:28.29ChoHagLeeds: Can you read braille?
11:28.45z00dax<PROTECTED>
11:28.45z00daxThe following connections are open:
11:28.45z00dax<PROTECTED>
11:29.02Leedsno, I cannot
11:29.03z00daxnot sure which end of the line is intercepting that
11:29.07ChoHagShame.
11:29.38ChoHagz00dax: This random site said it's #., and that fits well with what I remember from the last time I had a sun.
11:29.56ChoHagThat should get you the lom prompt.
11:30.02z00daxit does indeed
11:30.04ChoHagCan't remember how to get back to the os though.
11:30.09z00dax.lom>
11:30.12ChoHagNot that you'll need to.
11:30.27z00daxfecking chickens
11:30.37z00daxits the wrong machine. the T2k isnt on serial con :(
11:30.42z00daxepicfail
11:30.54ChoHagHah!
11:34.01wethrinHar
11:34.03Leeds???
11:34.10Leedsyay, unicode Braille :-)
11:44.30wethrinAhh, Juergen Schinker..... failing to realise that putting the last bit of cable from exchange to house is not a cheap task
11:52.12antiphaseI'm so glad I don't have to read that fuckwit's retarded arrogant nonsense any more
11:54.06wethrinhave you unsubscribed, then?
11:54.30ChoHagBut phone lines should be free!
11:54.39ChoHagIt's a RIGHT.
11:54.48antiphaseSome months ago, after another ridiculous job advert thread
11:55.21wethrinAhhh. I think people seem to object to others finding a job
11:55.31antiphaseSo it would appear
11:55.57wethrin"Oh, you want to pay a sysadmin less than 1 BEEEEEEEELION POUNDS a year? Hahahahaha, good luck finding someone. HAhahaa"
11:56.28wethrinI guess these people would rather be underemployed than have a job for £25k
11:56.44antiphase"Oh btw you sent the job adverts to the wrong list without [OMGJOB] in the title. Can't you read the AUP/EULA/crap on some other website that's unrelated??????"
11:57.31wethrin"Don't post anything that's outside Zone 1, because it might be hard for two people to get to1!!!!"
11:57.46ChoHagActually I applied for that.
11:57.52wethriny'know, Reading might be quite convenient for some people
11:58.01ChoHagMight be an agency, and in Reading, but hey. It's better than a kick in the teeth.
11:58.09ChoHagAnd better than wasting away in this hellhole.
11:58.13wethrinquite
11:58.23wethrinReading's fairly accessible if you're west of London
11:58.42ChoHagTakes ~45 minutes in the car with empty roads.
11:58.54kjsjust get the train?
11:58.59ChoHagAnd I'll have a bike ASAP so every road is effectively an empty road.
11:59.02wethrineh, if you're happy to commute it
11:59.10ChoHag1.5 hrs on a train.
11:59.13ChoHagOn two trains.
11:59.19Leedsah, maybe on a bike - but surely it would cost quite a lot in a car?
11:59.25ChoHagPlus getting into Surbiton and out of the station at that end.
11:59.51kjsno, i go through reading on my way back to Bath from Pad every time?
11:59.53ChoHagProbably. When I get a car it is should be used only for shipping around my as-yet nonexistent kids and shopping.
12:00.11ChoHagkjs: So you live and/or work in Paddington station?
12:00.35kjstrue, I guess you have to bare getting the tube to pad.
12:00.48Leedsdo not get the tube bare!
12:00.48wethrinChoHag++ # Gllug post
12:01.37ChoHagkjs: Does that make it cheaper?
12:01.43wethrindisappears off
12:17.15MohanIs anyone coming for gllug meet on coming 28th ?
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12:24.45cityLights1hi all
12:25.58cityLights1if any one uses iptables: can I use QOS without filtering accoring to the MARK?
12:26.57cityLights1I mean: does this script work: http://rafb.net/p/KSgRRL12.html
12:30.04DiscordianUKIt wouldn't work on my system , what's ebegin do?
12:45.31cityLights1it is a init script in getnoo, please see only waht is in start
12:45.48cityLights1I think that I must filter to get it working
12:46.15cityLights1otherwise I am just setting up the structure , but not using it
12:47.34DiscordianUKNo idea about gentoo init perhaps ask over on #gentoo ?
12:57.10cityLights1I am not asking abou the gentoo thing , I am only asking if the commands in there with tc will work
12:57.13cityLights1or is the tc filter commands needed
13:11.27z00daxMohan: I plan on being there
13:15.20rhoweAnyone got any favourite terminal server hardware?
13:15.29rhoweneeds to replace a server which is used for accessing a few serial consoles
13:15.51rhoweThere are apparently some nice little boxes which have lots of serial ports for connecting to stuff and which allow you to SSH in etc
13:20.11DiscordianUKI've used Cyclades ones
13:21.10cpufreakI've got an acs48 here
13:22.20rhoweAny good?
13:22.37cpufreakwell yes but I've not turned it on in 4 yrs
13:22.52rhoweheh
13:23.11rhoweI'm just looking for something I can SSH to really
13:23.37rhoweif it has a web interface with a java applet for console access then that's even better, but the main thing is SSH
13:24.50cpufreakcyclades have ssh
13:25.32rhoweI think someone was recommending Avocent to me too
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13:25.52Mohanz00dax: I will be there as well, if possible we can meet up there.
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13:57.02rhowewhee
13:57.04rhowebye bye IIS
14:03.05AndyMillari would come on the 28th, but i'm in newcastle :(
14:04.26ChoHagThat's in 2 days.
14:04.39ChoHagWhy do interesting things always happen at the same time?
14:04.45ChoHagmutually exclusive interesting things
14:05.31AndyMillarbecause life sucks?
14:11.26ChoHagBeing religious and not disagreeing with the theory of evolution really freaks people out.
14:11.47catalystoh no! non-conformity!
14:14.07MohanSuse 64bit on a normal restart shows no of transactions replayed, fs=reiserfs. its on a brand new harddisk replaced like 2 days back.
14:14.14Mohancould there be a reason for it ?
14:18.26AndyMillar:/
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15:48.28*** topic/#gllug is Greater London LUG - http://www.gllug.org.uk | Next meeting: 28/03/09 'From the pavement to the cloud'
17:32.27*** join/#gllug ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
17:32.27*** topic/#gllug is Greater London LUG - http://www.gllug.org.uk | Next meeting: 28/03/09 'From the pavement to the cloud'
17:33.00ChoHaghttp://notalwaysright.com/murphys-law-and-customers-do-not-mix/996
17:42.31AndyMillarheh
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