IRC log for #gllug on 20091216

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00:54.49gregjhttp://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/12/airport-security-puts-three-bullets-through-macbook-hard-drive-survives/
00:55.01gregjseriously, america - land of fucking freedom
00:57.17gregjoh, it is even nicer - that's israeli border control :)
00:57.35gregjholy wars..
00:57.43Leedsmeh
00:57.48Leedsthere's something missing from the story
00:57.54gregjyou think ?
00:58.02gregjwell, I suppose it is jurnalism after all
00:58.05gregjhttp://lilysussman.wordpress.com/2009/11/30/im-sorry-but-we-blew-up-your-laptop-welcome-to-israel/
00:58.11gregjthat's the ladies blog
00:58.25LeedsI've dealt with Israeli airport security many times - they're *not* just going to pull a gun and shoot up someone's laptop unless there's a good reason
00:59.27gregjshe had some arabic stickers on her laptop
00:59.28gregj:)
00:59.46gregjthe most stuppid reason of all - religion.
00:59.47gregjheh
01:00.00Leedsshe is at least somewhat of an activist
01:00.20gregjbecause she can read arabic ?
01:00.21gregjcome on
01:00.55gregjand what exactly does shooting a presumed bomb will do ?
01:01.33gregjblow up the stuppid fucker who came up with the idea. And it is a shame it didn't really blew up, for that reason alone.
01:01.53gregjI remember, after 911 being well searched at heathrow
01:01.57z00daxgregj: you do know that bomb's dont just go off on their own ?
01:02.18z00daxeg. shooting the crap off a nuke isnt going to do anything worth writing home about
01:02.28gregjthey took my hand watch, and shoes - and started pressing, kicking, and dropping on the floor.
01:03.11gregjI thought too myself - well, if that was a bomb, in presence of 100s of people in 'security' queues, that would be exactly what attacker wants to achieve, and you now helping ...
01:03.18gregjI mean, how stuppid is that.
01:03.44gregjz00dax: yes, but that doesn't mean that bulets wouldn't be able to set off some flamable/explosive material, because of friction, etc
01:03.58z00daxshooting a bomb isnt going to make it go off, unless its some seriously unstable homebrew crap
01:04.14gregjin any case, what was the reason they did it ?
01:04.40z00daxyou better ask the guy who ordered the other guy who pulled the trigger :)
01:04.47gregjother than, few vicious kids, who obviously are small minded, and hate anything that's arabic/egiptian/etc shoot that stuff for fun
01:05.07gregjunder cover of border controll, and serious 'terrorist fight'
01:05.28gregjI am sure it was just that, small minded fuck, who was vicious, and treats is as fun.
01:05.42gregjexcuse my french.
01:05.56z00daxI find that highly unlikely
01:06.13z00daxbut anyway, better things to do
01:06.20gregjwell, I've seen that happening, and I know guys who would do that - in the army.
01:06.49gregjI wonder if they are going to pay for the thing...
01:06.51gregjprobably not.
01:10.49gregjI highly doubt I'll ever get us visa after all that ranting I do in public...
01:11.58gregjLeeds: I can understand that they are affraid of bombings, etc. But this is just one step too far. On the other hand, she is american. Many ppl suffer worse on american border control points, (but nobody is shooting stuff...)
01:13.27Leedsit's not because she's American
01:14.09gregjI know
01:14.28Leedsit's more because she's an American who lives in Egypt, was carrying 'pro-Palestinian materials', had photos of anti-semitic stuff on her, etc.
01:14.32gregjif it wasn't for US, there would be no israel after 2nd world war..
01:14.48Leedsactually, no
01:14.49gregjwell, I think it is all her business.
01:15.07gregjand I don't think anyone should shoot stuff, because of any suspicion..
01:15.11Leedswhen Israel was created, it was much closer to being a communist friend of the soviets
01:15.29gregjand because they did - I think it is just a pure act of vandalism, driven by small minded thoughts.
01:16.19gregjbut that is so close to the american policy. and the irony is, she is american...
01:16.47Leedsshe had been traveling in Arab countries (at least one of which is an active enemy of Israel)
01:17.02LeedsI'm not saying the border guys were right to shoot up her laptop
01:17.17Leedsbut she wasn't exactly an innocent tourist on her way to spend a week on the beach
01:18.15gregjwell, if you can define somebody guilty of something, just because she's been traveling in arab countries..
01:18.51gregjthan they should seal that border off
01:18.57gregjand just refuse entrance.
01:19.04gregjnot shoot somebody's stuff..
01:19.37Leedswouldn't be an issue for Egypt or Jordan... or even Qatar or UAE
01:19.51Leedsbut Syria and Israel are still in a state of war
01:20.07LeedsI don't think she'd be allowed into Syria at all with an Israeli stamp in her passport, for example
01:20.30gregjso you are saying, that this sort of stuppid attitude is present on both sides.
01:20.56gregjheh, that's why I am not very tempted to go anywhere near those regions for holidays or whatever.
01:22.00Leedsno, I'm saying again that she is an activist, who had visited at least one enemy state, was carrying anti-semitic and pro-Palestinian materials, etc.
01:22.17Leedsnot a tourist whose laptop was shot at because the guards were bored
01:23.33Leedsanyway, afk
01:24.38gregjwell, why they granted her entrance to the country than ?
01:24.42gregjit just doesn't add up
01:25.09gregjon a side note, I wonder if Steve will buy her new laptop as replacement. After all that publicity
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08:35.14bilarhmorning
08:35.25bilarhit was certainly a bit nippy outside this morning
08:35.36bilarhcar temp gauge said -8 in places :S
08:37.44Leedshttp://www.ctshk.com/english/destination/harbin/travel%20tips.htm is the plan for Feb
08:38.01Leedsaverage temperature -15, average lowest -21
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08:39.10bilarhcool :)
08:42.13Leedsbloody cold!
08:42.26Leedshttp://rtoddking.com/chinawin2009_hb_if.htm
08:42.59bilarhit's not gonna feel that cold
08:43.05bilarhif you wrap up warm, at least
08:43.13Leedsit is to my gf who is born and bred in HK
08:43.29bilarhit'll be nice and dry
08:43.31bilarhno problems
08:43.44Leedsme... suppose I might put a jacket and a jaunty hat on
08:44.06bilarhbah, you're supposed to be english and walk around in a t-shirt in winter
08:44.25bilarhjust remember to keep the lips moisturised
08:44.26LeedsI put a long-sleeved polo on today for the second time this winter - and I'm warm :)
08:44.27bilarhwith lots of cream
08:44.44bilarhahem, to prevent chaffing
08:44.50Leedsyes, indeed
08:45.25Leedsfunny thing is, we were in M&S at the weekend, who seem to be under the strange misconception that HK actually has a winter... selling big fleecy coats, thermals, multilayer hats and gloves
08:45.48bilarhhehe
08:46.10bilarhmaybe it's for people who are going to harbin
08:46.10Leedsbit expensive to equip oneself there for a few days in the cold
08:46.25bilarhcan you rent the gear?
08:46.33Leedsfrom M&S? ;)
08:46.47bilarhi know that tourists who go from england to finland get the option to rent proper gear
08:46.50Leedsyeah, might look into that
08:47.10bilarhbecause apparently not that many english people have gear for -40 :D
08:47.18bilarhand yes, it's fscking expensive as well
08:49.26LeedsI want to look in places like sample shops
08:49.32bilarhin other news, english drivers still can't drive in winter
08:49.53bilarhso it's minus friggin eight degrees outside
08:50.00Leedsheh
08:50.05bilarhi'm doing 30mph down a b road
08:50.10bilarhin the middle of the forest
08:50.12bilarhwith icy patches
08:50.20bilarhfrost gleaming on the tarmac
08:50.44bilarhhow many van drivers decide i'm going way too slow for the conditions and overtake me? :P
08:50.50Leedsmy sort-of-boss is wandering around the office offering people hot chocolate, because it's fallen to the mid-teens
08:51.12bilarh*three*
08:51.34Leedsforecast down to 10C on Sunday night - that's about as cold as it gets
08:51.36bilarhbut as soon as there's a snow flake about, they'll all be doing 5mph
08:51.44bilarh10c is pretty cold out there, though
08:52.03bilarhi remember going in feb a couple of years back and i actually had to buy a jacket
08:53.32bilarhBA union leader: "we have taken the decision to disrupt peoples plans with a heavy heart"
08:53.41bilarhnothign to do with you wanting xmas off then, eh?
08:55.31Leeds10C is a normal winter low
08:55.50Leedswonder if Branson has been contributing to the union party fund
08:57.08bilarhhehe probably
08:57.13bilarhand michael o'leary
09:04.46halimorning
09:25.14antiphaseStupid union scum. I'd sack the lot of them
09:38.56bilarhindeed
09:39.52antiphaseWe need Maggie to come back and sort them out
09:43.29bilarhmore of the same from the boys in blue: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/dec/15/italian-student-police-arrest-filming
09:46.17haliargh, we've got a new deverloper, trying to prove his worth. I rejecting all his databases changes in an app release ... cowboy
09:46.24haliI'm*
09:48.04halihe's using check constraints where he should have had foreign keys ... bla bla ... constraint naming is not following our standards
09:48.55haliplus he created a table called "site_history" with the double quotes in the sql script, hence oracle makes the table case sensitive all lower-case
09:49.29halii used to hate code collaborator, now i quote like it.. he can't commit his changes as i reject the review.. haha
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10:17.01MohanI have a requirement to monitor the bwusage on each ip on a small network(24/32)ports, any recommendations for managed switch which allows to do this ?
10:19.10antiphaseGet some rude bwoys to count the packets
10:19.53antiphaseIt probably depends how much loot you have
10:20.05antiphaseLook for switches with SNMP capability
10:21.14MohanSNMP is fine, but will it be possible to calculate bwusage per ip on the network?
10:21.33antiphasePer port
10:21.45Mohanoh ok, per port.
10:21.46antiphaseIf you want per address accounting, you'll need a router to do it
10:22.43Mohancisco 3500 series should be fine ?
10:23.51antiphaseCertainly
10:23.53MohanI'm fine with per port, as its going to be snmp,I can map port to the location in the report.
10:27.00Mohancool, thanks.
10:50.41halia 2960 would do it unless you need layer 3
10:51.16halisomething like cacti would do that fine
10:52.16halior a juniper ex3200
10:52.27halihardware wise that is
10:53.28Mohanhali: I'm not bothered about layer 3, the requirement is to monitor bandwidth per host on a small network.
10:53.41hali2960 is the easy solution
10:54.04Mohanok, I will have a look at it. thanks :)
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11:13.17Mohanyay! its snowing here :D
11:26.21rhowehere (gherkin) too
11:26.26wethrinhey rhowe
11:26.52rhoweheya
11:26.56ChoHagBah. For no discernable reason the laptop now uses its own speakers when the headphones are unplugged.
11:27.00wethrincan I tempt you to the SMWS next week?
11:27.08ChoHagSo now I have to be careful not to irritate anybody.
11:27.13wethrinChoHag: That's what's supposed to happen...
11:27.25ChoHagYes, but it didn't and I was happy with that.
11:27.28rhowewethrin: Only if it's Monday
11:27.37wethrinMonday could happen
11:27.47rhoweLet me consult Google
11:28.11rhowehmm, potentially
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11:40.03wethrinhurrah
11:42.12LeedsHIGNFY+curry :D
11:43.11wethrinooh, yes
11:46.05bilarhw00t, welding tonight :D
11:46.19bilarhyes, i'm sad :P
11:46.52wethrinyes, yes you are
11:46.59wethrinwait. I'm not dick_turpin
11:47.14bilarhyou got the first part rigth, though ;)
11:47.22wethrinheh
11:48.44Leedshmm, godwin reference
11:49.10wethrinwhere?
11:49.15wethrinoh, hignfy?
11:56.42AndyMillarit's snowing here (shepherds bush) too :/
11:57.32antiphaseIt just stopped in W6 so it will stop there soon I predict
11:57.34antiphasebets 50p on it
12:09.59z00daxsnow!
12:12.13Leedswhat's snow?
12:14.52z00daxoutside the window, and on the streets as we walked into work.
12:15.23z00daxI've not really spent enough of my life around places where it snows on a regular basis. Which is why I still find it quite nice.
12:15.42z00daxon the other hand, I've lived through many a monsoon. But I still find rain to be quite cool
12:24.45ChoHaghttp://www.tuxphone.co.uk/tariff.html - lists pstn prefixes and their costs.
12:24.57ChoHagAbout halfway down are the costs for prefix '4.4E+09'
12:34.09bilarhwe've got snow in crawley now too
12:46.51haliit snowed here for about 2 minutes
12:46.59Leedsoh Jesus... current *high* for Harbin is -18C
12:47.06Leedsshould I really be planning to go there on holiday?
12:47.23wethrinyes
12:47.28wethrinThere'll probably be snow
12:47.29Leeds(the low is -24C)
12:47.41Leedswethrin: did you see the photos?
12:48.02wethrinno...
12:48.03Leedshttp://www.rtoddking.com/chinawin2009_hb_if.htm
12:48.18Leedsthere'll be possibly the biggest snow and ice festival in the world - that's the point of going
12:48.40Leeds(also, interesting Jewish history, but it's a long way to fly somewhere very very cold to see a Jewish museum)
12:48.41wethrincool
12:48.46wethrinRight. Lunch.
12:52.05z00daxLeeds: hanging around in that cold, will also require oneself to be mostly drunk, most of the time.
12:52.28Leedsfortunately, the three famous local cuisines are bread, sausages and beer
12:52.43Leedsthe second best-known/biggest brewery in China is there :)
12:53.21Leedssorry, 4th largest
13:00.47mindbendrHi everyone
13:01.00halihm, we have a new russian girl in the office, im almost certain i've seen her in some film... possibly with rocco :P
13:01.13mindbendrI've got 2 servers with full of data on XFS, on one of the servers we have got 6xTB disks raid6 array and the other one has 12x1TB raid6 array (both fiber). When I do `time find .` in the data folder, I get speeds 2-3 times slower on the 1TBx12 array which I'd expect it to be the same if not faster the XFS fs'es are created by the default values, do you have any suggestions for me to find the issue (whether is it fs related or not) ? and I flush
13:02.30haliget disk statistics from the arrays?
13:02.38haliare they jbods or hardware raid?
13:03.04mindbendrhardware raid
13:03.19halimake?
13:03.36mindbendrwhat's that mean?
13:03.41haliwho made the array
13:03.52halilsi/sun/hp?
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13:04.47bilarhoh no, he's here again
13:04.59mindbendrhali: 3rd party but i can find out about what's in it
13:05.09mindbendrhali: how would that help?
13:05.20halito figure out what tool to use to get statistics from it
13:05.21dick_turpinbilarh: Ding dong merrily on high the Christmas bells are ringing
13:05.34halimindbendr: i presume hba's etc are identical for both setups? same switches etc?
13:05.38londo_if the amount of files isn't the same then what you get isn't a surprise
13:06.17halii.e. i use netapps and i use data fabric manager to get filer stats
13:06.45mindbendrhali: hmm it's got the management webpages but i don't think it'd have the stats
13:07.02rhowehttp://www.virgindigitalhelp.co.uk/
13:07.42halimindbendr: what does bonnie or another type of disk benchmark tool say?
13:08.06mindbendrhali: the slower hardware is a co-located server (we expect it to be slower because of the 2TBx6 disks)
13:08.29mindbendrhali: the one we expect to see faster is connected via fiber to the server
13:09.02londo_find generates mostly random IO so for raid6 the amount of disks doesn't make a huge difference
13:09.25mindbendrhali: I didn't try bonnie because I thought it could affect the server as it's live, I simply use `find` and dd /dev/zero
13:10.28mindbendrhali: and another weird thing is, we use rsnapshot for backing up the same data, when I `time find` on the same data on the same disks but in a different directory with hardlinks (meaning rsnapshot folders), I get the same results
13:10.48mindbendrhali: however when I run the tests where the actual data resides, it appears to be slower on the test server
13:10.59mindbendrhali: and the data is identical (at least according to rsync)
13:11.09mindbendron both of the servers/dirs
13:11.32mindbendrlondo_: wouldn't it be faster on 12 disks to access randomly instead of 6?
13:12.10mindbendrlondo_: and the amount of data is the same
13:12.35mindbendrthey are completely identical service (Data wise) as I've mirrored them with rsync (even the OS)
13:12.38londo_mindbendr: not really, since the amount of data is small you only hit one disk at a time
13:12.41mindbendr*service=servers
13:13.29mindbendrlondo_: would it expect it to be slower like 4 times (so on the live server it takes 30 seconds whereas it takes 2.5 minutes on the test server)
13:13.47mindbendrlondo_: consider the cash has been getting flushed.
13:15.46mindbendrhali: these storages are dedicated (not shared) and they don't use iSCSI etc.
13:16.27mindbendrhali: so I don't think datafabric type management would help? they use fiber channel controllers
13:17.24halisame fiber cards?
13:17.54halisame io scheduler? same tunables in /etc/sysctl.conf
13:17.56halietc
13:19.24mindbendrthey both are centos 5.3 so for the i/o scheduler
13:19.58mindbendrand the OS has been mirrored by me to this test server so I'd expect all the kernel params to be the same
13:20.22mindbendrand I forgot to mention that
13:20.53mindbendrthis mirror is a paravirtualised VM however, I have mounted the device on the Dom0 and did the same test and got the same result
13:21.08mindbendrwhereas the other server is not virtualised
13:21.43mindbendrbut as I've mounted it on Dom0 as a normal device and I've seen the command performed the same results as in the VM
13:21.55mindbendrI don't think that would be related
13:22.23mindbendrand afaik XEN uses the same i/o scheduler
13:24.21mindbendrI'll boot the dom0 with a non-xen kernel and do the test again just in case.
13:29.49dick_turpinHands up all those who have snow UK only bilarh, there's always one
13:33.45ChoHagPeople who comment out sections of code and then commit to a vcs need to get a beating every time they do it.
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13:58.06antiphaseRunning non-scientific non-comparable tests on running servers is completely meaningless
13:58.21antiphaseYou might as well break up some rocks for the afternoon
13:58.52gregjis further up to north, and on different island - no snow here yet.
14:00.06bilarhdick_turpin: what are you on about, old boy?
14:00.23bilarhs/boy/fool/
14:01.26dick_turpingregj: None here in Wolverhampton/Birmingham I wonder if I can take GMT TV to court for giving out incorrect info? I was promised snow
14:03.30dick_turpinbilarh: I'm not on very much but would have been if I'd have got that job :-(
14:04.17gregjwell, nothing here in Belfast either
14:04.30gregjand I would so love to see the snow. I just love to watch the panic it causes :)
14:04.44bilarhwe had a couple of snow flakes
14:04.58bilarhi hope we get snow like last year :D
14:06.44AndyMillardick_turpin: what did I do?
14:08.22dick_turpinAndyMillar: Not a lot looking at your last review :-)
14:14.29AndyMillarreview?
14:18.25dick_turpinthrows a blunt object at AndyMillar
14:18.38AndyMillardodges
14:18.44AndyMillarmy ssl cert for ym blog ran out last night
14:18.48AndyMillarhangs his head in shame
14:26.06dick_turpinis currently on hold to Sage UK "This should be fun"
14:31.44dick_turpinOMG that was easy
14:32.52AndyMillaro_O
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17:29.08halihm, look at that, it's beer o'clock
17:30.52antiphas1Some people do a day's work every week day
17:30.55antiphas1:P
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