IRC log for #gllug on 20091222

00:16.56*** join/#gllug nixofortune (n=egor@94.30.27.253)
00:44.00*** join/#gllug Armand (n=Armand@host86-147-193-232.range86-147.btcentralplus.com)
00:50.51*** join/#gllug Discordian (n=ch@fedora/DiscordianUK)
03:11.45*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@www.scorefive.com)
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08:35.40bilarhmorning people
09:26.09*** join/#gllug Provito (n=Provito@cpc1-enfi16-2-0-cust99.hari.cable.virginmedia.com)
09:30.27Mohanmorning
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09:46.56Leedshow's the weather in London today?
09:50.05AlexCold, but uninterestin
09:50.06Alexg
09:51.06Leedsno snow?
09:53.02AlexNot here
09:56.33ChoHagNo more all week apparently.
09:58.52Leedsbah, boring
09:59.26Leedsin that case, I'm going to winter solstice dinner
09:59.57Leedsaka
10:00.00Leeds'winter come dinner'
12:01.48*** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=sales@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
12:07.18dick_turpinAfternoon All
12:07.22wethrin'ello
12:07.33dick_turpinwethrin: Ooh just the man
12:07.37wethrinwhatup?
12:08.01dick_turpinNothing, teach me screen or I will hit you :-)
12:08.32dick_turpinHit me with your rhythm stick hit me hit me
12:09.42*** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@fedora/DiscordianUK)
12:09.42*** join/#gllug Discordian (n=ch@fedora/DiscordianUK)
12:10.34wethrindick_turpin: 'screen' starts a new session
12:10.44wethrin^A-d detaches screen
12:10.49wethrin'screen -r' reattaches
12:12.14*** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@fedora/DiscordianUK)
12:12.29dick_turpinI have a "Screen for dummies" however when I invoke 'screen' the hostname/teminal name (Whatever its called) stays the same is there a way that when you invoke screen it can say sales@screen1 or something?
12:12.36wethrin^A-?
12:12.39wethringives oyu help
12:12.49wethrinProbably :)
12:12.58wethrinBut that's more to do with your PS1 variable
12:13.45dick_turpinHm
12:14.05dick_turpinhttp://linuxgazette.net/147/appaiah.html
12:14.10antiphaseYou'd want a PROMPT_COMMAND probably
12:14.22antiphaseI find it easier to configure a status bar in screen
12:14.49wethrinbuggers orff
12:15.35dick_turpinantiphase: Yeah yeah that's what I need I think
12:16.14dick_turpinSomething that says "Oi idiot you're on *Screen* #1
12:16.51antiphaseMy ~/.screenrc looks like [[
12:16.52antiphasehardstatus alwayslastline "%{= bd}%{c}(%H) %{+b y}%t %=%{-b c}%D, %d %M %Y  %c"
12:16.53antiphaseshell -/bin/bash
12:16.55antiphase]]
12:17.20dick_turpinAlso am I doing it right in that I'm running screen on the remote box
12:17.24antiphaseIt's a bit cheesy and multicoloured, but it tells me the host machine and window name, and the time and date
12:18.16antiphaseIt's sensible to run it somewhere it can live for a while, or on the machine where you need to background and recover shell sessions
12:19.10dick_turpinand I don't appear to have ~/.screenrc in /home/sales mind you I did something silly and rang screen as root at first if that makes a difference?
12:19.48antiphaseIt makes sense if you want all new windows to be created as a root shell
12:20.18antiphaseIt's probably not really advisable in principle though, because you never know who might be able to recover the session
12:22.03dick_turpinno I don't I prefer to su - anyway. so do I create my own .screenrc file or have I stuffed it?
12:23.04antiphaseAny user can have one of course
12:24.17antiphaseTop tip is also to change the control sequence introducer key, so when you try and use Ctrl-a to go to the beginning of the line it doesn't do weird stuff
12:24.25antiphaseis a Ctrl-b man
12:25.59dick_turpinI want to learn to walk first before I start running, I need to sort out this missing .screenrc file first then I'll use your code so I can see what's happening
12:29.21Mohanif you have multiple screens running you can name a session like this "screen -S screen1", and for reattaching "screen -r screen1"
12:36.16dick_turpinantiphase: I think I typed your code wrong :-(
12:36.55antiphaseYou neede everything between the delimiting [[ and ]] brackets. Is your copy and paste not working today? :P
12:37.41dick_turpinAha I did but I think I missed [[ off brb
12:38.30dick_turpinHm no I didn't [[hardstatus alwayslastline "%{= bd}%{c}(%H) %{+b y}%t %=%{-b c}%D, %d %M %Y  %c" shell -/bin/bash]]
12:38.33antiphaseBetween means between, and not including
12:38.41antiphase2 lines, like I pasted
12:39.16dick_turpinSo 'shell' is on a new line?
12:39.36antiphaseOf course
12:39.43antiphaseOtherwise I wouldn't have pasted 2 lines
12:40.46dick_turpinHm that killed my screen?
12:41.07dick_turpinSorry mate I'm too dense for you but thatnks for trying
12:41.12dick_turpinthanks even
12:43.16dick_turpinHm if flashed up really fast something about 1 argument required
12:50.09dick_turpinantiphase: Huzzah! Done it! needed to remove the [[ and the ]] doh! Is there a way to make that status bar be at the top?
13:28.18antiphaseman screen
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13:32.52dick_turpinantiphase: Busy playing, Ctrl--shift--C a is not giving me a list of the 3 screens? Ctrl--shift--C a n (p) works though
13:33.40antiphaseWhy would you run more than one screen? Do you mean windows?
13:33.51dick_turpinYeah sorry
13:33.56antiphaseCtrl-a "  is the standard command for that
13:34.20dick_turpinYeah except I don't get a list?
13:34.47antiphaseHave you set the control sequence to Ctrl-c ?
13:34.54antiphasesuspects that won't very well
13:35.38antiphaseOr are you being a n00b and reading the man page wrong?
13:35.44antiphaseC-a means Ctrl-a
13:35.54antiphaseRTFM foo'!
13:36.03dick_turpinahahaha Noob boy
13:43.09dick_turpinantiphase: C-a " :-P
14:35.40ChoHagWhy, with screen, must you press C-a a to get a real C-a?
14:35.57ChoHagTo get a real C-a in minicom in screen, the keypresses are C-a a C-a a
14:36.01ChoHagWhich is really confusing.
14:36.44Mohanits normal to run multiple screen sessions on a machine if multiple users uses same login
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14:37.47Mohandick_turpin: "screen -list" would list the sessions if thats what you are looking for.
14:39.00dick_turpinMohan: That sounds mor sensible however I discovered the command, TBF I suppose the less characters required makes it more productive
14:39.25dick_turpins/mor/more
14:39.32dick_turpinbum
14:41.54AndyMillarMohan: when do you have multiple users sharing the same logins?
14:42.03MohanChoHag: screen /dev/ttyS0 would directly read the serail port why do you need minicom under screen ?
14:43.07dick_turpinAnd isn't minicom like really old?
14:44.51ChoHagreally really old
14:44.56ChoHagI haven't used it in ages.
14:46.33MohanAndyMillar: there are places you can see that its the root equivalent login but not root.
14:47.08AndyMillarMohan: named users and sudo then?
14:48.17Mohanwhat if two users run sudo screen , both session would run as root I suppose.
14:48.19dick_turpinI don't like sudo
14:49.26AndyMillarMohan: I can't comprehend why anyone would do that :/
14:49.45antiphaseWho would ever run `sudo screen`?
14:49.48AndyMillarwell, if you're doing that then you're "doing it wrong"
14:49.55AndyMillar(tm)
14:50.02antiphaseYou'd end up with something rather wacky
14:50.16dick_turpinActually what I cant understand, as an old lag, is when I started with this Linux crap everyone banged on about how the Root account was the pinnacle of security keeping Joe User away from what he shouldn't mess with
14:51.04AndyMillardick_turpin: that's how it is now
14:51.13dick_turpinYet today its all "Oh just edit your sudo users file then they can rape your system till their hearts content"
14:51.23Mohanlets say the system is administered by 2 people, I have started a script as root and left it. the other can start his own session and do his stuff without bothering mine.
14:51.49AndyMillarMohan: that means you're logged in as root (and therefore doing it wrong)
14:52.06AndyMillardick_turpin: sudo's not there to allow rapeage, it's there for accountability (or that's how it should be used)
14:52.28antiphaseAnd you probably didn't put a password on your screen, so someone else can hijack it, run some evil commands, and then you get sacked
14:52.42AndyMillari.e. you don't give your users sudo - you give sudo access to your sysadmins instead of root
14:52.46AndyMillarantiphase++
14:53.04dick_turpinNa its there so that lazy sysadmins don't have to keep sorting out Joe Users machine ;-)
14:53.39AndyMillarnah, logging in everywhere as root is the sign of lazy sysadmins :)
14:54.05dick_turpinAndyMillar: And I know a few who do that too
14:54.18AndyMillarshudders
14:54.50dick_turpinAndyMillar: I even know one or two who sign into IRC as root user!
14:54.55AndyMillar!
14:55.07antiphasestartkeylogger
14:55.12ChoHagThere was a distribution of Linux where root was the only user.
14:55.18ChoHagI forget which.
14:55.22dick_turpinPuppy Linux
14:55.29MohanIts a small environment, we use ssh based key auth for it, using sudo or not doesnt make a difference
14:56.16Mohaneven if you give sudo, sudo bash will give root access
14:56.30Mohanwhat accountablity can you have with that ?
14:57.03ChoHagThat's why you don't have 'ALL=(ALL) ALL' in /etc/sudoers.
14:57.07ChoHagOr whatever the syntax is.
14:57.25ChoHagAlthough I do that for myself on my workstation(s).
14:57.26MohanI certainly agree sudo is the better way of doing it.
14:57.38AndyMillar(.*) is the better way of doing it
14:58.12dick_turpinchmod 777 better still, we'll you may as well
14:58.55*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n219078059093.netvigator.com)
14:59.27antiphaseAgain, if `sudo bash` or `sudo su -` is the type of commands they're running, they'd be outside the Job Centre by next week
14:59.58ChoHagYeah. They should use sudo -i
15:00.28ChoHagOr -s
15:01.20AndyMillartries to remember if auditd can track you if you sudo bash
15:01.34AndyMillarI suspect you could do it
15:01.54Mohansudo anyshell would give you root access
15:02.12Mohansudo script which you allowed and run any commands with in the script.
15:02.28AndyMillarsudo vi as well
15:02.30Mohanits the trust which matters most than the restrictions.
15:02.47AndyMillarhands Mohan over to the auditors
15:03.46MohanEspecially if there is only 2 users administering the system, its pretty clear that eithier one of us has f***ed it up.
15:04.05ChoHagAnd it was always the other one?
15:05.39dick_turpinlooks and gestures with his eyes at Mohan while being asked about the failure
15:06.11Mohancan always stand up for his mistakes :)
15:06.15antiphasesudo rm -rf some_directory /
15:06.42AndyMillarsudo rm -rf /var/log/
15:06.51AndyMillar"it wasn't me"
15:07.19Mohanwhy would someone want to do that ?
15:08.12ChoHagMohan: After a while, you will know that the correct way to ask that question is "When will someone do that?"
15:08.45ChoHagAfter which it will very quickly become "When will someone try to do that again? Soon I hope."
15:12.20dick_turpinWe had to destroy the city to save it :-)
15:12.51Mohandick_turpin: why just the city ? why not the world ?
15:12.52dick_turpinOr save our arse more to the point
15:13.51antiphasePyrrhus would be proud
15:15.52dick_turpinI'm still not convinced with this sudo lark if it was me I'd make it so that apps ect got installed as normal users and any folders or files they had to write too was associated with the user ID range or something
15:17.28ChoHagThey generally are.
15:17.31*** join/#gllug sabinef72 (n=sabinef7@ns.popipo.fr)
15:22.56dick_turpinSo we are doing some consultancy and have quoted a day rate price and estimated that potentially it will take two days "Can I get a discount if its more then two days on the additional days rate?"
15:24.39dick_turpin"Yeah course, the amount of work you need could take a month I know lets do it for free shall we I mean its not as if we have wages or anything to pay we do this as a hobby"
15:30.53AndyMillarawesome, mailserver load of ~80
15:50.12zeroXtenanyone recommend a DSL modem/router which is particularly good on crappy lines?
15:50.51zeroXteni've lost touch with these things since leaving tiscali
15:51.25antiphaseI think it depends on your line
15:53.20zeroXtenfairly high SNR it seems (not my line)
16:00.41AndyMillarwants to kill Mark Slater
16:02.33zeroXtenwho?
16:04.28dick_turpinchecks his birth certificate to make sure he is not Mark Slater
16:05.07zeroXtensounds like someone from something like eastenders
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16:10.29AndyMillar<PROTECTED>
16:10.29AndyMillar<PROTECTED>
16:10.33AndyMillar<PROTECTED>
16:10.33AndyMillar<PROTECTED>
16:12.29dick_turpinAndyMillar: Has he registered sudousers.co.uk or something?
16:18.58AndyMillarno, he's registered a domain I'd rather like
16:19.07AndyMillarand object to paying GBP 1600 for
16:19.52dick_turpinJust pinch it
16:19.56AndyMillarhow?
16:20.13dick_turpinSpoof the address :-)
16:20.23AndyMillar?
16:26.44*** join/#gllug lejocelyn (n=lejocely@93-96-150-110.zone4.bethere.co.uk)
16:31.31AndyMillarwonders if a domain dispute would be easier or not
16:32.32antiphaseandymillar.org is free
16:33.36AndyMillarthat's not the one I want :)
16:35.04dick_turpinWhat is the one you want
16:35.12AndyMillarmillar.co.uk
16:36.08dick_turpin Renewal date:  07-Jan-2010
16:36.09antiphaseMight as well dispute it, as it's clearly not in any way related to the squatting scum at all
16:36.11AndyMillar(well, and andymillar.com, andrewmillar.com, andrewmillar.co.uk)
16:36.38dick_turpinSee what happens on or around the 10th
16:36.47antiphaseSend him email saying "SEll it to me now for 50 quid or I'll have it taken off you, fool"
16:37.50AndyMillarhmm, might wait till the 11th January and try that
16:38.30dick_turpinI take it you have his address? (I can see it)
16:38.37AndyMillarindeed I do :)
16:38.46AndyMillarI'd pay GBP 100, but GBP 1600 is stupid
16:38.51antiphaseFireworks through the letter box
16:38.51dick_turpinHe's up near me :-)
16:39.11AndyMillarooh
16:40.03dick_turpinAbout 15 mile as the crow flies but a real bitch to get to
16:42.11ChoHag[How] to download an rpm from yum without installing it?
16:42.18ChoHags/to/can you/
16:42.53boudiccasChoHag, with difficulty
16:43.04dick_turpinSave as
16:43.08ChoHagNice.
16:43.11dick_turpin:-D
16:43.46dick_turpinAndyMillar: http://www.sedo.com/search/details.php4?language=us&domain=millar.co.uk&partnerid=17505
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16:44.01dick_turpinAndyMillar: I'm not sure that's allowed
16:44.22dick_turpinAndyMillar: Could do with checking with nominet
16:44.40AndyMillarwhat (specifically) isn't allowed?
16:44.49AndyMillarhas read the dispute policy a few times
16:44.50dick_turpinSeeing as he is an individual using a quasi ebay for domains site
16:45.48dick_turpinTrouble is you're on thin ice by saying "Well its my surname" if you was a business you might have a case
16:45.59AndyMillarhas Andrew Millar Ltd as well :)
16:46.09dick_turpinGo for it
16:46.14ChoHagBecause businesses are real but surnames are not.
16:46.51dick_turpinChoHag: I don't make the rules just use them for my own evil capitalist ends
16:47.07AndyMillarhmm, fasthosts have cocked up my domain registrations
16:47.14AndyMillar<PROTECTED>
16:47.14AndyMillar<PROTECTED>
16:47.14AndyMillar<PROTECTED>
16:47.14AndyMillar<PROTECTED>
16:47.15AndyMillar<PROTECTED>
16:47.17AndyMillar<PROTECTED>
16:47.19AndyMillar<PROTECTED>
16:47.22AndyMillar<PROTECTED>
16:47.25AndyMillarshrugs
16:48.26antiphaseFarthosts
16:48.28dick_turpinYou need your company reg not a A-another domain name reg
16:48.32AndyMillarmmh, I'll give it till the 10th january and see what happens
16:48.59AndyMillardick_turpin: price point for being a registrar for UK domain names is about 100 .uk domains
16:50.10dick_turpinAndyMillar: Problem is that site already records an interest so pound to a pinch of doggy doo doo he'll re-register I mean its only something silly like £5 for two years
16:50.47AndyMillaraye
16:51.48dick_turpinMind you he may be full of the Xmas spirit and will be happy to sell it for £20
16:51.59antiphaseMake him waste his fiver, then fuck him with malice
16:52.12antiphaseand vinegary razor blades
16:52.25dick_turpinYes there is that course I suppose
16:52.58dick_turpinHave you all met Santa's little helper antiphase
16:53.17AndyMillarantiphase: a little too tempting :p
16:54.56AndyMillaroh god, there's a small child in the office
16:55.05AndyMillargoes check his sharp objects aren't out
16:55.11dick_turpinHave you actually communicated with him or is this all guesswork?
16:55.23AndyMillarcommunicated via sedo :(
16:55.29dick_turpinAh
16:56.19dick_turpinTell him he's a cunning stunt then and you have friends in the area :-)
16:56.24antiphaseThere are small children in the office here as well, for family day or something. There are 8 Christmas trees and a dude dressed as an elf in the foyer
16:56.37ChoHagOh yeah that's today isn't it?
16:56.43ChoHagforgot
16:56.44AndyMillareugh
16:57.14dick_turpinantiphase: Have they locked you in a cupboard? I would if I was your Manager, I'm afraid you cant be trusted
16:57.14antiphaseChoHag: Do you have child processes then?
16:57.18ChoHagNo.
16:57.31ChoHagI was hoping for free sugary goodness.
16:57.33AndyMillarmmh, i've got 38 chrome tabs open
16:57.38AndyMillarthis is not good
16:58.17ChoHagOh well. People are coming tonight instead.
16:58.33dick_turpinInstead of what?
16:58.49ChoHagInstead of me enjoying the party at betfair.
16:58.55ChoHagFSVO enjoy
16:59.22antiphaseI don't think there's a party, unless you're 5 years old
16:59.30ChoHagReally?
16:59.31LeedsAndyMillar: and presumably 256GB of RAM?
16:59.44ChoHagThe email implied it was for staff and that they could bring their kids.
16:59.50AndyMillarnah, i've not got round to upping my laptop fr5om 3 to 6GB
16:59.57AndyMillars/fr5om/from/
16:59.58dick_turpinantiphase: Is there jelly and ice cream?
16:59.58antiphasedidn't get the memo
17:00.03ChoHagNot that it was for the staff's kids and they could be accompanied by parents.
17:00.17AndyMillargoes turn off some antivirus stuff
17:00.30ChoHagStill. Jelly and ice cream is always worth it.
17:00.59dick_turpinJelly and ice cream Om nom nom nom
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17:01.42dick_turpinknocks over 5 year old kids to get at the jelly
17:02.22antiphasethinks dick_turpin might be a shrub rocketeer
17:02.46dick_turpinis going to have to google that
17:03.07ChoHagNot sure you want to.
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17:04.14dick_turpinantiphase: F'eck me is that the best you can do? And its you not me in a room full of kids I hasten to add, idiot :-P
17:04.55antiphaseThe Crazy World of Arthur Brown?
17:05.45dick_turpinantiphase: Nice try, I'm poised to tell Facebook, twitter, identica and any other micro  blog that you are my best friend
17:06.29antiphaseSafe, blud
17:06.44dick_turpin:-D
17:07.40dick_turpinI cant believe these arseholes the phones have been dead for the last two hours, will they let us go early? Will they F
17:07.55ChoHagHah.
17:07.57ChoHagis going.
17:07.57ChoHagNow.
17:08.17boudiccasdick_turpin, why are hte phones dead?
17:08.21boudiccas*the
17:08.26dick_turpinI shot em
17:08.36boudiccasah, that expalins it all
17:09.02dick_turpinboudiccas: We break up tomorrow you watch I bet they make us work till 5.30
17:09.05boudiccasnever mind, only another twenty minutes and you'll be free again
17:09.08ChoHagI even did the honest thing and worked a full 8 hours on a remote site.
17:11.38dick_turpinRight lets start the shutdown procedure, TTFN
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17:11.51AndyMillar"berak up"?
17:31.33AndyMillarbreak*
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