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09:12.21 | ChoHag | Yay! Fun on the trains. |
09:12.27 | ChoHag | No district line from Wimbledon. |
09:12.54 | ChoHag | Of course they don't bother to tell anyone until after they've got off the train, crossed the tracks and are waiting on the tube. |
09:13.27 | ChoHag | Then the Ticket Gate Warriors try and stop you getting through at other stations. |
09:13.59 | bilarh | i'm so happy i don't commute on the train/tube at the moment |
09:14.32 | ChoHag | Well I just love the way this country is so utterly incapable of dealing with any kind of weather. |
09:14.49 | bilarh | yeah, even overly nice weather presents a problem |
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09:41.58 | cityLights | ok, can anyone help me with understanding the bridge thing? |
09:42.24 | cityLights | I use openvpn and bridge it to my lan ethernet card eth1 |
09:42.37 | antiphase | One is obligated to ask why |
09:42.53 | cityLights | hi anti (I love it when you answer me) |
09:43.03 | antiphase | You can kiss me later |
09:43.28 | cityLights | I used to use openvpn and tun then route it all together |
09:43.47 | cityLights | but I got greedy and I want to use avahi over my network |
09:44.15 | cityLights | so a remote client that taps in to the vpn will "see" all services |
09:44.29 | antiphase | Sounds feasible in principle |
09:44.42 | cityLights | so I must reconfigure openvpn and use layer 2 - thus use bridging |
09:45.20 | cityLights | I still didnt see it actually work, but tell me this: |
09:46.02 | cityLights | say I connect to networks in diffrent sites by vpn from one gateway to the other |
09:46.23 | cityLights | so both gateways have a new network device tap0 |
09:46.40 | cityLights | I bridge them each to the lan ethernet card |
09:47.10 | cityLights | can I now "see" the whole network in the same subnet? |
09:48.35 | antiphase | Bridging just means joining the broadcast domain of two or more networks |
09:49.49 | cityLights | I dont understand |
09:50.03 | antiphase | tbh I've never really tried it because it has limited uses unless you're trying to do something you shouldn't be, which is usually easier to do some other way |
09:50.47 | cityLights | say a pc in the first lan is 192.168.0.1 can it talk to a pc in the second network by calling 192.168.0.2 ? |
09:51.27 | antiphase | (Con)joining the broadcast domains means that traffic which would usually be confined to a network segment (e.g. IP broadcasts and ARP traffic) can flow between networks, which is sort of what you want, but also sort of not what you want |
09:51.59 | antiphase | 192.168.0.1 and 192.168.0.2 are already in the same network |
09:53.25 | cityLights | so can this bridge magic send the info to 192.168.0.2 from th first network? |
09:53.36 | cityLights | it seems complex |
09:53.57 | cityLights | as both sides will need to have longer arp tables |
09:56.06 | antiphase | I don't think that's your major concern :P |
09:56.54 | cityLights | ok |
09:57.04 | cityLights | I still dont understand this |
09:57.26 | cityLights | will this work just like I hade one gateway with one nic ? |
09:57.52 | antiphase | If you do it right, it has a chance of doing that |
09:58.17 | antiphase | You're essentially going to greate a point-to-point network for each VPN client, then bridge it with your LAN |
09:58.24 | antiphase | I think you probably don't want to do that |
09:58.33 | cityLights | so the ethernet card at the second subnet has the IP addr as the first ethernet has? |
09:58.53 | antiphase | Do you get the concept of a network? |
09:59.01 | cityLights | sort of |
09:59.12 | cityLights | I am used to IP addr and subnet |
09:59.27 | antiphase | Two examples might be 192.168.1.0/24 and 192.168.2.0/24 which are separate networks, because their address space does not overlap |
09:59.30 | cityLights | so every gateway needs to keep the arp of its clients |
09:59.42 | cityLights | right |
10:00.09 | cityLights | oops brb |
10:00.55 | antiphase | Bridging them simply means that broadcast packets from each network will be forwarded to the other, instead of broadcasts being confined to the networks |
10:01.06 | antiphase | That's the important part for automatic service discovery |
10:02.08 | antiphase | Under some circumstances, simply doing that will make it work (i.e. if the default gateway for each network is the same router). Under other circumstances, it won't do what you expect |
10:02.30 | antiphase | It's not a simple proposition, and tbh doing service discovery over VPNs seems a bit weird |
10:05.41 | cityLights | pls explain why you say that |
10:06.32 | antiphase | Firstly, explain why you think you need it, and how that justifies the complexity of setting it up |
10:07.04 | cityLights | lets take bonjur for example |
10:07.35 | antiphase | Is that the thing so you can steal other peoples' iTunes libraries without them knowing? :P |
10:08.04 | cityLights | as the two networks are always on - I can use this with pidgin to talk to ppl on the second network |
10:09.43 | antiphase | I'd suggest setting it up then |
10:26.51 | AndyMillar | holy crap, antiphase's being helpful |
10:27.15 | antiphase | I am extending the Christmas spirit for a couple of days, as an alternative to work |
10:36.11 | AndyMillar | ah :) |
11:36.18 | bilarh | woot, my argon gas regulator is here :D |
11:37.51 | antiphase | Does it look like an expensive tap? |
11:54.46 | bilarh | yes :) |
11:55.07 | bilarh | except it's got built in flow metere |
11:55.08 | bilarh | s |
11:55.11 | antiphase | You were probably robbed |
11:55.55 | bilarh | 37 including hoses |
11:56.01 | bilarh | doesn't seem too bad |
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12:26.51 | ChoHag | antiphase: What? |
12:27.51 | antiphase | You have gay headphones |
12:27.58 | ChoHag | I do. |
12:28.04 | antiphase | I was just pointing it out to everyone so there was no doubt |
12:29.20 | ChoHag | I see. |
12:30.08 | ChoHag | Well they are quite blue. |
12:35.53 | antiphase | It's more that they're blingy |
12:39.02 | ChoHag | Yeah I had no choice about that. |
12:39.07 | ChoHag | The non blingy ones were > £100. |
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13:06.03 | ChoHag | "Fringe group of internet users known as 'adults'" |
13:07.14 | Armand | .o/ |
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14:00.46 | ChoHag | OK That's freaky. |
14:01.02 | Armand | Yes, DiscordianUK is freaky.. |
14:01.16 | ChoHag | apt-get exists on this centos box. |
14:01.21 | DiscordianUK | Pardon |
14:01.22 | ChoHag | I'm afraid to see what it actually does |
14:01.27 | DiscordianUK | shudders |
14:02.16 | Armand | :P |
14:04.06 | bilarh | hey so who are left at BF in the unix team since my days? |
14:12.59 | AndyMillar | probably no-one :p |
14:15.14 | Mohan | BF ? |
14:15.28 | DiscordianUK | BetFair |
14:16.10 | Mohan | oh ok. |
14:16.15 | AndyMillar | Mohan: where a lot of people here work (or worked) |
14:17.17 | Mohan | AndyMillar: I'm aware of that, thanks. |
14:22.07 | AndyMillar | : |
14:22.08 | AndyMillar | :-p |
14:40.02 | antiphase | They're probably all still here, because they get paid massive piles of cabbage |
14:40.23 | bilarh | "other companies are available" :P |
14:44.06 | AndyMillar | :p |
15:04.56 | cpufreak_ | bilarh: loads of people |
15:05.34 | cpufreak_ | peta, marcus, simon k |
15:05.53 | cpufreak_ | pav is still in the company, as am I |
15:06.05 | cpufreak_ | alex is still about too |
15:22.33 | Alex | I am |
15:22.38 | Alex | ..different alex :( |
15:27.09 | bilarh | how about simon L? |
15:38.44 | ChoHag | Who puts "exit $?" at the end of a shell script? |
15:39.28 | antiphase | A clueless fuckmonkey |
15:39.41 | Leeds | someone following example code without understanding, a silly coding standard |
15:40.26 | ChoHag | Ooh of course. Git blame... |
15:40.33 | ChoHag | points his finger at Thom May. |
15:40.35 | ChoHag | HE did it. |
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16:11.46 | cpufreak_ | bilarh: yeh he's in arch now |
16:12.27 | bilarh | ah cool, good for him :) |
16:28.41 | ChoHag | BAH! |
16:28.49 | ChoHag | Why doesn't su run .bash_profile? |
16:29.15 | ChoHag | And why is JAVA_HOME set in .bash_profile and not /etc?? |
16:29.15 | cpufreak_ | su - |
16:29.24 | cpufreak_ | because of idiots. |
16:29.33 | ChoHag | su - doesn't either. |
16:29.42 | ChoHag | Noninteractively. |
16:31.50 | cpufreak_ | it does. |
16:31.52 | cpufreak_ | 31728 open("/home/andym/.bash_profile", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 3 |
16:31.52 | cpufreak_ | 31728 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=567, ...}) = 0 |
16:31.53 | cpufreak_ | 31728 read(3, "# ~/.bash_profile: executed by b"..., 567) = 567 |
16:31.53 | cpufreak_ | 31728 close(3) = 0 |
16:32.33 | ChoHag | In that case redhat is being 'clever'. |
16:33.05 | cpufreak_ | er? |
16:33.51 | ChoHag | strace su ... 2>&1 | grep profile |
16:33.52 | ChoHag | Nothing. |
16:34.13 | cpufreak_ | # strace -f -o /tmp/wah34 su - andym |
16:34.18 | cpufreak_ | on pqaiph01 |
16:36.18 | ChoHag | Ah no -f |
16:37.15 | ChoHag | So that's not the problem. The environment's just not getting through. |
16:39.30 | antiphase | Our modern Java packages drop a file in /etc/profile.d to set shit |
16:39.52 | ChoHag | The one I have here only adds to PATH |
16:40.01 | antiphase | You fail |
16:40.20 | ChoHag | Hey it's YOUR package. |
16:40.39 | antiphase | Bad workmen always blame their tools :P |
16:40.57 | ChoHag | I'm not blaming my tools. I'm blaming your tools. |
16:41.07 | antiphase | Bah |
16:42.16 | ChoHag | Installed: bf-sun-java.x86_64 0:1.6.0_16-3 |
16:42.16 | ChoHag | Complete! |
16:42.16 | ChoHag | [uk] [root@pqachefdev01 chef-repo]# cat /etc/profile.d/java.sh |
16:42.16 | ChoHag | export PATH=/usr/java/latest/bin:$PATH |
16:43.25 | antiphase | Nothing wrong with that |
16:43.39 | antiphase | JAVA_HOME is set by the applications, not the system usually |
16:43.51 | antiphase | See the many horrible betex control scripts |
16:48.23 | ChoHag | Well I'll have to speak to Tom to see how he does itn for other tomcat apps. |
16:51.52 | antiphase | He doesn't, I would expect |
16:51.58 | antiphase | It will be done in control skriptz |
16:52.25 | antiphase | Try to imagine how you would have done it in 1995, make it a bit worse, and you'll be spot on |
16:52.26 | ChoHag | Yeah that's what I'm writing. |
16:52.38 | ChoHag | In 1995 I'd probably have done it in DOS. |
16:52.52 | ChoHag | You want it worse that that? |
16:54.46 | antiphase | Ideally, you'd source /etc/sysconfig/application_name then provide defaults for anything which isn't defined |
16:56.27 | ChoHag | Hmm guess I'll have to make one of them. |
16:56.29 | ChoHag | Oh well. Tomorrow. |
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18:29.11 | cityLights | how many ppl here plan to attend fosdem? |
18:30.21 | z00dax | I'll prolly go there, for the first day atleast. |
18:30.27 | z00dax | 5th to 6th Feb |
18:37.50 | cityLights | what can my SO do while i m there? |
18:38.33 | z00dax | well, there isnt anything much to do on the Sunday - nothing is open, nothing moves |
18:38.57 | z00dax | on Friday/Sat there are a few things in Brussles, and Ghent isnt far - easy public transport over, with plenty around |
18:40.24 | z00dax | I'd also recommend asking in their irc channel and posting to the fosdem list |
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20:17.39 | AndyMillar | wonders if it would be silly to go over for the beer evening and then pass out on the train homer |
20:19.59 | AndyMillar | arrive in brussles at 1730, leave 0700 the next day :p |
20:21.44 | AndyMillar | that'd be an expensive (but tempting) night out, but the risk of missing the train the next morning is rather large |
20:55.11 | cityLights | hmm a fosdem channel |
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23:46.39 | wethrin | Last year, FOSDEM put on a Brussels tour for the non-geeks |