IRC log for #gllug on 20091223

00:17.47*** join/#gllug nixofortune (n=egor@94.30.27.253)
00:56.32*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n219078059093.netvigator.com)
01:30.28*** join/#gllug celesteh (n=celesteh@sblug/member/celesteh)
03:35.21*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@www.scorefive.com)
04:49.38*** join/#gllug boudiccas (n=boudicca@80-47-133-204.lond-th.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
08:46.56*** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@fedora/DiscordianUK)
09:08.24*** join/#gllug sabinef72 (n=sabinef7@ns.popipo.fr)
09:12.21ChoHagYay! Fun on the trains.
09:12.27ChoHagNo district line from Wimbledon.
09:12.54ChoHagOf course they don't bother to tell anyone until after they've got off the train, crossed the tracks and are waiting on the tube.
09:13.27ChoHagThen the Ticket Gate Warriors try and stop you getting through at other stations.
09:13.59bilarhi'm so happy i don't commute on the train/tube at the moment
09:14.32ChoHagWell I just love the way this country is so utterly incapable of dealing with any kind of weather.
09:14.49bilarhyeah, even overly nice weather presents a problem
09:37.54*** join/#gllug cityLights (n=cityLigh@bzq-84-111-46-151.red.bezeqint.net)
09:41.58cityLightsok, can anyone help me with understanding the bridge thing?
09:42.24cityLightsI use openvpn and bridge it to my lan ethernet card eth1
09:42.37antiphaseOne is obligated to ask why
09:42.53cityLightshi anti (I love it when you answer me)
09:43.03antiphaseYou can kiss me later
09:43.28cityLightsI used to use openvpn and tun then route it all together
09:43.47cityLightsbut I got greedy and I want to use avahi over my network
09:44.15cityLightsso a remote client that taps in to the vpn will "see" all services
09:44.29antiphaseSounds feasible in principle
09:44.42cityLightsso I must reconfigure openvpn and use layer 2 - thus use bridging
09:45.20cityLightsI still didnt see it actually work, but tell me this:
09:46.02cityLightssay I connect to networks in diffrent sites by vpn from one gateway to the other
09:46.23cityLightsso both gateways have a new network device tap0
09:46.40cityLightsI bridge them each to the lan ethernet card
09:47.10cityLightscan I now "see" the whole network in the same subnet?
09:48.35antiphaseBridging just means joining the broadcast domain of two or more networks
09:49.49cityLightsI dont understand
09:50.03antiphasetbh I've never really tried it because it has limited uses unless you're trying to do something you shouldn't be, which is usually easier to do some other way
09:50.47cityLightssay a pc in the first lan is 192.168.0.1 can it talk to a pc in the second network by calling 192.168.0.2 ?
09:51.27antiphase(Con)joining the broadcast domains means that traffic which would usually be confined to a network segment (e.g. IP broadcasts and ARP traffic) can flow between networks, which is sort of what you want, but also sort of not what you want
09:51.59antiphase192.168.0.1 and 192.168.0.2 are already in the same network
09:53.25cityLightsso can this bridge magic send the info to 192.168.0.2 from th first network?
09:53.36cityLightsit seems complex
09:53.57cityLightsas both sides will need to have longer arp tables
09:56.06antiphaseI don't think that's your major concern :P
09:56.54cityLightsok
09:57.04cityLightsI still dont understand this
09:57.26cityLightswill this work just like I hade one gateway with one nic ?
09:57.52antiphaseIf you do it right, it has a chance of doing that
09:58.17antiphaseYou're essentially going to greate a point-to-point network for each VPN client, then bridge it with your LAN
09:58.24antiphaseI think you probably don't want to do that
09:58.33cityLightsso the ethernet card at the second subnet has the IP addr as the first ethernet has?
09:58.53antiphaseDo you get the concept of a network?
09:59.01cityLightssort of
09:59.12cityLightsI am used to IP addr and subnet
09:59.27antiphaseTwo examples might be 192.168.1.0/24 and 192.168.2.0/24 which are separate networks, because their address space does not overlap
09:59.30cityLightsso every gateway needs to keep the arp of its clients
09:59.42cityLightsright
10:00.09cityLightsoops brb
10:00.55antiphaseBridging them simply means that broadcast packets from each network will be forwarded to the other, instead of broadcasts being confined to the networks
10:01.06antiphaseThat's the important part for automatic service discovery
10:02.08antiphaseUnder some circumstances, simply doing that will make it work (i.e. if the default gateway for each network is the same router). Under other circumstances, it won't do what you expect
10:02.30antiphaseIt's not a simple proposition, and tbh doing service discovery over VPNs seems a bit weird
10:05.41cityLightspls explain why you say that
10:06.32antiphaseFirstly, explain why you think you need it, and how that justifies the complexity of setting it up
10:07.04cityLightslets take bonjur for example
10:07.35antiphaseIs that the thing so you can steal other peoples' iTunes libraries without them knowing? :P
10:08.04cityLightsas the two networks are always on - I can use this with pidgin to talk to ppl on the second network
10:09.43antiphaseI'd suggest setting it up then
10:26.51AndyMillarholy crap, antiphase's being helpful
10:27.15antiphaseI am extending the Christmas spirit for a couple of days, as an alternative to work
10:36.11AndyMillarah :)
11:36.18bilarhwoot, my argon gas regulator is here :D
11:37.51antiphaseDoes it look like an expensive tap?
11:54.46bilarhyes :)
11:55.07bilarhexcept it's got built in flow metere
11:55.08bilarhs
11:55.11antiphaseYou were probably robbed
11:55.55bilarh37 including hoses
11:56.01bilarhdoesn't seem too bad
12:01.56*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n219078059093.netvigator.com)
12:26.51ChoHagantiphase: What?
12:27.51antiphaseYou have gay headphones
12:27.58ChoHagI do.
12:28.04antiphaseI was just pointing it out to everyone so there was no doubt
12:29.20ChoHagI see.
12:30.08ChoHagWell they are quite blue.
12:35.53antiphaseIt's more that they're blingy
12:39.02ChoHagYeah I had no choice about that.
12:39.07ChoHagThe non blingy ones were > £100.
12:45.50*** join/#gllug Armand (n=Armand@host86-147-193-232.range86-147.btcentralplus.com)
13:06.03ChoHag"Fringe group of internet users known as 'adults'"
13:07.14Armand.o/
13:24.14*** join/#gllug eye69 (n=magnus@yoshi.upcore.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
13:44.23*** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@fedora/DiscordianUK)
14:00.46ChoHagOK That's freaky.
14:01.02ArmandYes, DiscordianUK is freaky..
14:01.16ChoHagapt-get exists on this centos box.
14:01.21DiscordianUKPardon
14:01.22ChoHagI'm afraid to see what it actually does
14:01.27DiscordianUKshudders
14:02.16Armand:P
14:04.06bilarhhey so who are left at BF in the unix team since my days?
14:12.59AndyMillarprobably no-one :p
14:15.14MohanBF ?
14:15.28DiscordianUKBetFair
14:16.10Mohanoh ok.
14:16.15AndyMillarMohan: where a lot of people here work (or worked)
14:17.17MohanAndyMillar: I'm aware of that, thanks.
14:22.07AndyMillar:
14:22.08AndyMillar:-p
14:40.02antiphaseThey're probably all still here, because they get paid massive piles of cabbage
14:40.23bilarh"other companies are available" :P
14:44.06AndyMillar:p
15:04.56cpufreak_bilarh: loads of people
15:05.34cpufreak_peta, marcus, simon k
15:05.53cpufreak_pav is still in the company, as am I
15:06.05cpufreak_alex is still about too
15:22.33AlexI am
15:22.38Alex..different alex :(
15:27.09bilarhhow about simon L?
15:38.44ChoHagWho puts "exit $?" at the end of a shell script?
15:39.28antiphaseA clueless fuckmonkey
15:39.41Leedssomeone following example code without understanding, a silly coding standard
15:40.26ChoHagOoh of course. Git blame...
15:40.33ChoHagpoints his finger at Thom May.
15:40.35ChoHagHE did it.
15:55.21*** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@fedora/DiscordianUK)
16:11.46cpufreak_bilarh: yeh he's in arch now
16:12.27bilarhah cool, good for him :)
16:28.41ChoHagBAH!
16:28.49ChoHagWhy doesn't su run .bash_profile?
16:29.15ChoHagAnd why is JAVA_HOME set in .bash_profile and not /etc??
16:29.15cpufreak_su -
16:29.24cpufreak_because of idiots.
16:29.33ChoHagsu - doesn't either.
16:29.42ChoHagNoninteractively.
16:31.50cpufreak_it does.
16:31.52cpufreak_31728 open("/home/andym/.bash_profile", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 3
16:31.52cpufreak_31728 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=567, ...}) = 0
16:31.53cpufreak_31728 read(3, "# ~/.bash_profile: executed by b"..., 567) = 567
16:31.53cpufreak_31728 close(3)                          = 0
16:32.33ChoHagIn that case redhat is being 'clever'.
16:33.05cpufreak_er?
16:33.51ChoHagstrace su ... 2>&1 | grep profile
16:33.52ChoHagNothing.
16:34.13cpufreak_# strace -f -o /tmp/wah34 su - andym
16:34.18cpufreak_on pqaiph01
16:36.18ChoHagAh no -f
16:37.15ChoHagSo that's not the problem. The environment's just not getting through.
16:39.30antiphaseOur modern Java packages drop a file in /etc/profile.d to set shit
16:39.52ChoHagThe one I have here only adds to PATH
16:40.01antiphaseYou fail
16:40.20ChoHagHey it's YOUR package.
16:40.39antiphaseBad workmen always blame their tools :P
16:40.57ChoHagI'm not blaming my tools. I'm blaming your tools.
16:41.07antiphaseBah
16:42.16ChoHagInstalled: bf-sun-java.x86_64 0:1.6.0_16-3
16:42.16ChoHagComplete!
16:42.16ChoHag[uk] [root@pqachefdev01 chef-repo]# cat /etc/profile.d/java.sh
16:42.16ChoHagexport PATH=/usr/java/latest/bin:$PATH
16:43.25antiphaseNothing wrong with that
16:43.39antiphaseJAVA_HOME is set by the applications, not the system usually
16:43.51antiphaseSee the many horrible betex control scripts
16:48.23ChoHagWell I'll have to speak to Tom to see how he does itn for other tomcat apps.
16:51.52antiphaseHe doesn't, I would expect
16:51.58antiphaseIt will be done in control skriptz
16:52.25antiphaseTry to imagine how you would have done it in 1995, make it a bit worse, and you'll be spot on
16:52.26ChoHagYeah that's what I'm writing.
16:52.38ChoHagIn 1995 I'd probably have done it in DOS.
16:52.52ChoHagYou want it worse that that?
16:54.46antiphaseIdeally, you'd source /etc/sysconfig/application_name then provide defaults for anything which isn't defined
16:56.27ChoHagHmm guess I'll have to make one of them.
16:56.29ChoHagOh well. Tomorrow.
17:19.13*** join/#gllug Armand (n=Armand@host86-147-193-232.range86-147.btcentralplus.com)
18:29.11cityLightshow many ppl here plan to attend fosdem?
18:30.21z00daxI'll prolly go there, for the first day atleast.
18:30.27z00dax5th to 6th Feb
18:37.50cityLightswhat can my SO do while i m there?
18:38.33z00daxwell, there isnt anything much to do on the Sunday - nothing is open, nothing moves
18:38.57z00daxon Friday/Sat there are a few things in Brussles, and Ghent isnt far - easy public transport over, with plenty around
18:40.24z00daxI'd also recommend asking in their irc channel and posting to the fosdem list
18:47.39*** join/#gllug Armand (n=Armand@host86-137-211-57.range86-137.btcentralplus.com)
20:17.39AndyMillarwonders if it would be silly to go over for the beer evening and then pass out on the train homer
20:19.59AndyMillararrive in brussles at 1730, leave 0700 the next day :p
20:21.44AndyMillarthat'd be an expensive (but tempting) night out, but the risk of missing the train the next morning is rather large
20:55.11cityLightshmm a fosdem channel
21:02.09*** join/#gllug Filbert (n=jon@granola.peloris.co.uk)
21:45.28*** join/#gllug jpds (n=jpds@ubuntu/member/jpds)
21:50.58*** join/#gllug jpds (n=jpds@ubuntu/member/jpds)
22:28.23*** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@fedora/DiscordianUK)
22:59.52*** join/#gllug Armand (n=me@host86-137-211-57.range86-137.btcentralplus.com)
23:37.54*** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@fedora/DiscordianUK)
23:46.39wethrinLast year, FOSDEM put on a Brussels tour for the non-geeks

Generated by irclog2html.pl Modified by Tim Riker to work with infobot.