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| 02:26.30 | *** join/#gllug boudiccas (~boudiccas@80.47.190.14) |
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| 10:19.20 | Mohan | morning |
| 10:26.34 | Azundris | j0 |
| 10:51.15 | hali | morning |
| 10:55.13 | bilarh | morn |
| 11:01.03 | zaarg | good morning |
| 11:02.02 | *** join/#gllug stu_ (~stu@dyn1247-34.vpn.ic.ac.uk) |
| 11:24.15 | bilarh | how does "free memory" in linux work? is the cache usable by applications on demand as well? |
| 11:24.41 | bilarh | i.e. if someone says "how much memory is free on this box, for the purpose of running this app", is the answer the sum of free memory + cached memory? |
| 11:25.05 | bilarh | and/or is it a good enough approximation for day to day use? |
| 11:25.08 | z00dax | bilarh: pretty much, but depends on how one asks |
| 11:25.31 | z00dax | if you question is along the lines of how much can i malloc at one shot - thats realfree+cache+swap |
| 11:25.32 | bilarh | ok, good enough for my purposes :) |
| 11:25.43 | bilarh | yes, but if you don't want to end up swapping |
| 11:25.59 | z00dax | right, so you can do some funky kinds of malloc's to make sure you stay out of swap |
| 11:26.14 | bilarh | think "generic java app" |
| 11:26.29 | bilarh | and "generic fortran app(s)" |
| 11:26.30 | z00dax | is not smart, you will need to manage ram on the machine outside the JVM |
| 11:26.31 | bilarh | :) |
| 11:26.47 | bilarh | it's not even about management of memory |
| 11:27.05 | bilarh | it's about PHB wanting a way to warn users if a machine is about to run out of memory if they start something |
| 11:27.30 | z00dax | humm thats tricky, specially if you want to do it right |
| 11:28.17 | bilarh | i think something along the lines of "this app usually takes about 10 gb of memory. if free_memory < 10gb, then tell user" |
| 11:28.38 | bilarh | that'll be near enough for the purposes of satisfying PHB |
| 11:30.11 | rhowe | bilarh: I would've thought some kind of job running system should take care of that |
| 11:30.28 | rhowe | bilarh: Just have constraints in it saying "job foo requires resources x, y & z" |
| 11:30.29 | bilarh | this is for interactive apps |
| 11:30.33 | rhowe | Ah |
| 11:30.41 | bilarh | otherwise, yes |
| 11:31.05 | AndyMillar | bilarh: just do "echo 1 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches" |
| 11:31.10 | AndyMillar | and then see how much free memory you've got |
| 11:31.21 | z00dax | cache what you need is trending analysis, to build a knowledgebase around the app and the circumstances / metadata like user stats and performance metrics |
| 11:31.26 | bilarh | but that's bad from a performance POV, because then the cache has to be populated again |
| 11:31.27 | rhowe | Write a wrapper that does malloc($ram) || die "Not enough free RAM, sorry" before exec() :) |
| 11:31.39 | z00dax | s/cache/actually/ |
| 11:31.48 | bilarh | rhowe: well, that's roughly what i'm doing now, minus the malloc :) |
| 11:32.11 | z00dax | then be able to tie that into the app history and add some monitoring around that. uncle bob's all the way through |
| 11:32.26 | bilarh | z00dax: yes, that's true... i think there is some consensus about how much memory our apps take in "normal" use |
| 11:32.44 | bilarh | so i've got a wrapper script that is reasonably intelligent to take care of it |
| 11:32.47 | z00dax | if you have a ballpark figure, thats half or more of the complexity gone. |
| 11:32.52 | bilarh | yeah |
| 11:32.59 | bilarh | i just wanted to make sure that cached memory could be regarded as free :) |
| 11:33.03 | bilarh | for the purpose of the above |
| 11:33.13 | z00dax | the problem is that ram usage changes - sometimes drastically - depending on 'associated' factors. |
| 11:33.22 | z00dax | is thinking ruby more than java here.. but |
| 11:33.22 | bilarh | yeah |
| 11:33.37 | bilarh | anyway, i'll implement it and see how the users get on |
| 11:33.42 | rhowe | bilarh: Just make sure you keep on top of any changes in the apps, or you'll start promulgating a myth that $app requires 10G of RAM, when it only reqired 10G of RAM 5 versions ago and now it only needs 5GB :) |
| 11:33.46 | bilarh | s/users/test users/ |
| 11:33.50 | z00dax | slow db, for example, can cause the app to ballon on ram usage as it now has more connections and more data in/out than would normally be the case. |
| 11:34.17 | bilarh | rhowe: oh no, i'm not maintaining it... it's got a nice little config file the $maintainer can update with different memory requirements :) |
| 11:36.09 | AndyMillar | bilarh: if the app "needs 10GB", really erally allocate 20GB for it :) |
| 11:36.46 | bilarh | andymillar: i'll delegate that to $maintainer ;) |
| 11:36.58 | bilarh | i'm but a very small cog in a very large machine |
| 11:37.04 | rhowe | Oh FFS |
| 11:37.15 | rhowe | just figured out why his cron jobs weren't behaving as expected |
| 11:37.23 | rhowe | Mon,Tue,Wed,Thu.Fri |
| 11:37.24 | z00dax | crond not running ? |
| 11:37.48 | z00dax | yeah, Fri isnt really a TLD yet :) |
| 11:43.57 | ChoHag | Is it bring your sprog to the office day? Enforced child labour? |
| 11:48.37 | ChoHag | And then there were two. I think there's some mitosis going on. |
| 12:20.29 | *** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (~ch@fedora/DiscordianUK) |
| 12:27.17 | z00dax | not many people in this office seem to have kids |
| 12:38.36 | j0nr | anyone use curlftpfs? |
| 12:42.05 | j0nr | when i mount a nas drive using curlftpfs, it seems to mount (no error msgs) but then ls in the parent directory shows: |
| 12:42.12 | j0nr | d????????? ? ? ? ? ? fnd |
| 12:42.19 | j0nr | fnd is the mount point |
| 12:54.32 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (~sales@2001:0:53aa:64c:c8e:25c:26dd:5ce1) |
| 12:55.05 | dick_turpin | Afternoon all |
| 12:55.14 | wethrin | hello you trendy man |
| 12:55.39 | dick_turpin | Read it and weep baby |
| 13:34.01 | ChoHag | http://i.imgur.com/GxzeV.jpg |
| 13:39.12 | dick_turpin | wethrin: Ready for today's funny? |
| 13:39.49 | dick_turpin | "I dunno what we are going to do with this bloody Genuine Advantage" |
| 13:40.17 | dick_turpin | "They fall off the chair when you tell them the price of MS Office" |
| 13:41.05 | dick_turpin | that's the idea and it works in our favour, they either have to buy or they can pay for us to put Open Office on" |
| 13:41.22 | dick_turpin | Open Office is shit |
| 13:41.35 | boudiccas | but shit that works |
| 13:41.45 | dick_turpin | then they will have to pay for MS Office |
| 13:42.16 | dick_turpin | "I dunno how Microsoft thinks we can make a living" |
| 13:42.47 | dick_turpin | what? er buy not breaking the law for a start |
| 13:43.37 | dick_turpin | This is now followed by 5 minutes of dick_turpin shaking his head |
| 13:45.29 | dick_turpin | Oh and another one |
| 13:46.09 | dick_turpin | "Hey I've got a fix for that Genuine Advantage tool, just run this .exe" |
| 13:46.19 | dick_turpin | OK |
| 13:46.49 | dick_turpin | Er Office is asking for the code key now, where is it? |
| 13:47.00 | dick_turpin | "Oh don't you have it?" |
| 13:47.03 | dick_turpin | No |
| 13:47.17 | dick_turpin | "Oh, er um, ooh" |
| 13:47.47 | dick_turpin | So its not a fix, it just rips the code key out the registry then? |
| 13:48.04 | dick_turpin | shakes his head for 5 minutes |
| 13:52.51 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: I think I killed wethrin |
| 13:53.10 | boudiccas | what did you do? |
| 13:54.19 | dick_turpin | Bored him to death |
| 13:54.57 | boudiccas | oh! are you a bull?? |
| 13:55.17 | boudiccas | oh no, sorry! thats /gored/ him and not 'bored' |
| 13:55.29 | DiscordianUK | In the library with a golf club |
| 13:56.00 | boudiccas | and thats cluedo |
| 13:56.12 | DiscordianUK | It is |
| 14:06.35 | Mohan | dick_turpin: Install MS office and dont update . you wont have WGA problem :) |
| 14:08.49 | dick_turpin | Mohan: Yes, but I want the problem. This will highlight all the hooky copies then they will have to buy proper ones :-) |
| 14:09.44 | Mohan | They are more likely to update as it would show as an Important security update. |
| 14:27.20 | *** join/#gllug wethrin (dankolb@hades.eco.li) |
| 14:27.45 | wethrin | dick_turpin: Always ready! |
| 14:28.14 | dick_turpin | Ahahaha |
| 14:28.24 | dick_turpin | wethrin: Did you miss it? |
| 14:28.35 | wethrin | No, I saw it |
| 14:28.39 | wethrin | You work for morons |
| 14:30.08 | AndyMillar | dick_turpin: oops |
| 14:30.25 | AndyMillar | wait, your employer is installing hacky copies of windows for clients? |
| 14:30.37 | dick_turpin | wethrin: Where did you acquire this perceptive skill from? |
| 14:31.44 | dick_turpin | AndyMillar: Erm, no but there might be the odd customer who has gone "Here's my disc and the key is on that bit of paper" |
| 14:41.57 | AndyMillar | ye gods |
| 14:44.18 | AndyMillar | oh god... $boss just said "use the source, luke" |
| 14:46.31 | wethrin | dick_turpin: From you! |
| 14:49.26 | dick_turpin | wethrin: ? Sorry mate I don't understand |
| 14:55.26 | wethrin | Well, not the skill. But the perception |
| 15:00.01 | dick_turpin | wethrin: Oh, yes, Bwahahahaha |
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| 16:04.03 | *** join/#gllug wethrin (dankolb@hades.eco.li) |
| 16:19.32 | ChoHag | "The amount of WEEE Britain throws away is increasing by around 5% each year" |
| 16:19.48 | wethrin | They're just pissing it away? |
| 16:20.31 | dick_turpin | chuckle |
| 16:20.56 | ChoHag | "... the lead and other toxins it contains can cause soil and water contamination." |
| 16:21.34 | wethrin | Surely the point of WEEE is that it doesn't happen? |
| 16:21.50 | wethrin | and the council tips have special places for computer equipment |
| 16:22.35 | dick_turpin | wethrin: Yes, my employers |
| 16:42.14 | kjs | yo |
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| 16:45.24 | *** part/#gllug dick_turpin (~sales@2001:0:53aa:64c:c8e:25c:26dd:5ce1) |
| 16:52.04 | kjs | where can i get a huge whiteboard from? |
| 16:52.12 | wethrin | CPC |
| 16:52.15 | kjs | Yes |
| 16:52.19 | kjs | good answer |
| 16:52.38 | AndyMillar | the internet |
| 16:55.20 | kjs | humm just found a 1200x900 board |
| 17:00.17 | boudiccas | stick white paper to an internal window and just draw on the glass, that way you cna have it as big as hte window is |
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