| 01:00.19 | *** join/#gllug stafacus (~stafacus@78.146.208.237) |
| 03:21.18 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@www.scorefive.com) |
| 06:13.04 | *** join/#gllug stafacus (~stafacus@78.146.208.237) |
| 07:22.14 | bilarh | i've calmed down today so you can all talk to me again :P |
| 07:23.13 | j0nr | morning all |
| 07:30.03 | bilarh | morning |
| 07:57.27 | j0nr | how you feeling today bilarh? |
| 07:57.40 | bilarh | a whole lot better |
| 07:57.44 | hali | love your job yet? |
| 07:57.48 | bilarh | wel |
| 07:57.58 | bilarh | now that i'm not uber tired, i don't feel too bad |
| 07:58.04 | bilarh | my ajax script is working lovely |
| 07:58.06 | bilarh | etc :D |
| 08:07.24 | hali | jolly good |
| 08:07.35 | hali | im configuring our new border routers for a small site today |
| 08:07.39 | hali | quite fun |
| 08:08.02 | hali | internet BGP routing always feel so rewarding to play with |
| 08:08.18 | bilarh | cool |
| 08:08.53 | bilarh | seriously, i can't believe i haven't played around with ajax before, other than as a user... it makes the "user experience" so much better on web sites |
| 08:09.11 | bilarh | and faster too, when you don't have to generate the whole damn page again for every click |
| 08:12.02 | hali | what library do you use? or are you DIY'ing |
| 08:12.11 | bilarh | diy of course :D |
| 08:12.13 | hali | we use DWR and yahoo toolkit quite heavily in our new issuance apps |
| 08:12.15 | bilarh | more challenging that way |
| 08:12.30 | hali | a wheel can have many shapes :) |
| 08:12.33 | bilarh | seeing as i had nothing to actually do, i just started playing with some perl and then i thought |
| 08:12.36 | bilarh | hmm |
| 08:12.37 | bilarh | i wonder how this ajax works |
| 08:12.45 | bilarh | oh yes, it will work grand with my user modification web page |
| 08:13.02 | bilarh | etc |
| 08:13.04 | hali | splendid |
| 08:13.36 | bilarh | my cookie / session handler / login library is awesome too |
| 08:13.56 | bilarh | now it takes me literally 10 seconds to get a web "tool" set up to check unix credentials |
| 08:14.20 | hali | mod_auth_ldap? :) |
| 08:14.33 | bilarh | no, diy of course :P |
| 08:14.44 | bilarh | i suffer from "not invented by bilarh" syndrome :) |
| 08:17.41 | hali | hm, have i mentioned i hate xenpaks |
| 08:18.08 | hali | fibre modules the size of a sandwich |
| 08:18.55 | *** join/#gllug Armand (~me@mail.justit.co.uk) |
| 08:19.45 | Armand | Morning all. :) |
| 09:14.16 | bilarh | my new wheels: |
| 09:14.18 | bilarh | http://www.bilar.co.uk/saabenstein/images/car/temporary-transport/mini-front.jpg |
| 09:18.25 | *** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (~ch@fedora/DiscordianUK) |
| 09:52.36 | cpufreak | gay |
| 09:52.44 | cpufreak | (the link bilarh posted) |
| 09:54.12 | bilarh | it's awesome :P |
| 09:54.24 | bilarh | and it's so far done 58mpg in the 500 miles i've driven |
| 09:54.42 | bilarh | and 30 quid road tax |
| 09:57.19 | bilarh | plus i've got a massive cock already, don't need a penis extension ;) |
| 10:00.43 | ChoHag | <Pythonistas> Whitespace with meaning - it's great. Sure auto-indentation in your editor is now useless but IT LOOKS LIKE IT RUNS! Now people who are even too stupid to understand code flow in visual basic can write shit!!! |
| 10:00.52 | zplinux | is thi syntax right for bash: |
| 10:01.13 | zplinux | ./program || echo "fail to run program" ; exit1 |
| 10:01.14 | zplinux | ? |
| 10:01.34 | ChoHag | No. |
| 10:02.05 | ChoHag | Learn the joys of set -e |
| 10:02.12 | zplinux | ok, how can I send a messege then exit the script? |
| 10:02.20 | zplinux | o ok |
| 10:07.13 | cpufreak | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4o0ZVeixYU |
| 10:09.01 | zplinux | program ; if [ $? != 0 ] ; then echo "failed to run program" ; exit; fi |
| 10:09.04 | zplinux | better? |
| 10:09.19 | ChoHag | if ! program; then ...; fi |
| 10:09.27 | ChoHag | Or just set -e; program |
| 10:09.43 | ChoHag | Let the app deal with its own error messages. |
| 10:10.32 | zplinux | o ok |
| 10:11.13 | ChoHag | If -e is enabled, the script will exit if any application's return code is not 0 (and it's not dealt with internally) |
| 10:12.47 | zplinux | I know |
| 10:13.00 | zplinux | I am just tring to understand which approch to take here |
| 10:13.27 | ChoHag | Let something else do the hard work. |
| 10:16.23 | zplinux | want is the opposite of -eq? -ne |
| 10:16.24 | zplinux | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:16.26 | zplinux | right |
| 10:16.28 | zplinux | ? |
| 10:16.38 | BigRedS | zplinux: yup |
| 10:16.39 | ChoHag | Yes I think so. |
| 10:16.44 | ChoHag | man [ |
| 10:17.02 | zplinux | I use != but here I want to obay the syntax used |
| 10:17.21 | ChoHag | != and -ne are different |
| 10:17.35 | ChoHag | man [ |
| 10:17.41 | zplinux | o ok |
| 10:21.41 | zplinux | how to tell if a pid is a child of another pid? |
| 10:23.22 | ChoHag | Ask it "Who is your daddy, and what does he do?" |
| 10:23.37 | bilarh | chohag: :D |
| 10:24.11 | zplinux | is this like is sex? |
| 10:24.12 | *** join/#gllug Armand (~me@mail.justit.co.uk) |
| 10:24.20 | bilarh | zplinux: every pid apart from 1 is a child of another pid |
| 10:24.44 | bilarh | and even then you could perhaps argue that init is a child of the kernel |
| 10:24.50 | zplinux | so how to ask is pid1 a son of pid2 ? |
| 10:25.22 | bilarh | in what language? |
| 10:25.40 | zplinux | bash? |
| 10:25.45 | bilarh | $PPID |
| 10:26.02 | zplinux | what? |
| 10:26.08 | bilarh | sorry that gives you the pid of a processes parent |
| 10:26.28 | zplinux | great |
| 10:26.44 | bilarh | well, that works if you're checking "is $blah my parent" |
| 10:27.13 | bilarh | obviously, if you meant "is this program running over here a child of process x", it's a little bit more complicated |
| 10:27.23 | bilarh | then you could perhaps use ps -ef and check the parent there ;) |
| 10:27.53 | zplinux | first option is fine |
| 10:29.11 | zplinux | bilarh: pls show a line of using $PPID |
| 10:31.06 | bilarh | it's an environemnt variable |
| 10:31.15 | bilarh | perhaps you could tell us exactly what you're trying to accomplish? |
| 10:31.44 | cpufreak | bilarh: he's trying to accomplish: |
| 10:31.49 | cpufreak | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:31.49 | cpufreak | | ___/ \ |_ _| | |
| 10:31.49 | cpufreak | | |_ / _ \ | || | |
| 10:31.49 | cpufreak | | _/ ___ \ | || |___ |
| 10:31.49 | cpufreak | |_|/_/ \_\___|_____| |
| 10:31.51 | cpufreak | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:32.06 | zplinux | fixing asterisk init script |
| 10:33.20 | bilarh | cpufreak: hehe :D |
| 10:33.29 | bilarh | in which case, I'm the right man for the job :D |
| 10:34.11 | bilarh | zplinux: a bit more detailed,i know nothing of asterisk |
| 10:35.18 | ChoHag | Public request to all web browser developers everywhere: Can you please give me a "never open new tabs or windows on your own no matter what some idiotic fucking monkey web developer thinks is best for me" option. |
| 10:35.28 | zplinux | min , please I am using this PPID magic |
| 10:35.43 | zplinux | think I get it |
| 10:36.09 | antiphase | I think you're solving something wrong, like cpufreak said |
| 10:36.13 | bilarh | PPID is just the current bash processes parent |
| 10:36.38 | cpufreak | zplinux: the init scripts were perfectly for everyone else |
| 10:37.25 | zplinux | my boss just told me to quit this , errr |
| 10:37.39 | antiphase | Busted |
| 10:37.47 | cpufreak | s/were/work/ |
| 10:37.48 | zplinux | cpufreak: they assume only one session runs on the machine |
| 10:38.20 | zplinux | when using openvz to virtualize serval asterisk on the same machine, this is not goood |
| 10:38.35 | antiphase | ur doin it rong |
| 10:38.38 | zplinux | but really I should work on the openvz now |
| 10:38.46 | jpds | Running asterisk on virtual machines sounds like a bad idea. |
| 10:38.47 | cpufreak | as antiphase says you are doing it wrong. |
| 10:39.22 | zplinux | antiphase: whats odd is that I see the asterisk that are runnng in their VE as runing on the hardware node |
| 10:39.31 | cpufreak | yes |
| 10:39.34 | cpufreak | you are doing it incorrectly |
| 10:39.42 | cpufreak | the problem exists between keyboard and chair |
| 10:39.44 | zplinux | sorry, it is working |
| 10:39.45 | cpufreak | user error |
| 10:39.51 | zplinux | wait |
| 10:40.01 | antiphase | Code ID-10-t |
| 10:40.01 | zplinux | let me just get back |
| 10:40.21 | cpufreak | zplinux: the solution is for you to request a P-45 from your boss. |
| 10:40.27 | cpufreak | he will know what you mean, even if you don't |
| 10:40.36 | cpufreak | it will be best this way, for all of us. |
| 10:40.45 | zplinux | o come on |
| 10:41.44 | AndyMillar | oops |
| 10:42.25 | AndyMillar | zplinux: what virtualisation technology are you using? |
| 10:42.32 | jpds | AndyMillar: openvz. |
| 10:48.47 | AndyMillar | jpds: well, that'd be why the host can see the guest's processes then :) |
| 10:49.00 | zplinux | right |
| 10:49.05 | zplinux | odd - no? |
| 10:49.21 | ChoHag | Nop |
| 10:49.23 | ChoHag | No. |
| 10:49.24 | ChoHag | Normal. |
| 10:49.31 | antiphase | -EVIRT |
| 10:50.55 | DiscordianUK | containers not virt |
| 10:53.16 | zplinux | so if asterisk runs mpg123, and I am killing asterisk on the host I need to see if mpg123 is running |
| 10:53.33 | zplinux | then if the pid is the son of the asterisk I am killing |
| 10:53.50 | zplinux | does anyone here uses openvz? |
| 10:53.52 | ChoHag | Don't deal with bad parents. |
| 10:53.59 | antiphase | That sounds utterly horrific |
| 10:54.14 | zplinux | is making a template only a matter of taring a filesystem? |
| 10:54.57 | zplinux | need I use a dirrent term then kill ? |
| 10:55.18 | antiphase | You need to walk before you can run |
| 10:55.54 | zplinux | ok, |
| 10:56.12 | zplinux | assuming I got a server running one OS |
| 10:56.39 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@n219078058222.netvigator.com) |
| 10:56.41 | DiscordianUK | I've seen enough of OpenVZ to know I'll never recommend it for anything |
| 10:56.48 | zplinux | and I want to move this OS to run under a visualization host |
| 10:57.07 | zplinux | how can I do this? |
| 10:57.13 | DiscordianUK | OpenVZ != virtualisation |
| 10:57.43 | antiphase | I think you need to read around it a bit before you come and ask us to do your job for you |
| 10:57.55 | DiscordianUK | which is what I assumed you meant |
| 10:57.56 | AndyMillar | openvz si *awesome* |
| 10:58.00 | AndyMillar | is* |
| 10:58.03 | antiphase | Peoples' goodwill has a habit of wearing thin |
| 10:58.14 | ChoHag | It's also being deprecated, afaik, in favour of lxc. |
| 10:58.14 | antiphase | s/s'/'s/ |
| 10:58.35 | DiscordianUK | lxc is the better way yes |
| 10:59.14 | ChoHag | I expect they can run concurrently too. |
| 10:59.29 | DiscordianUK | yep |
| 11:00.13 | zplinux | sorry, I didnt mean to disrespect you |
| 11:00.36 | zplinux | bye |
| 11:01.14 | cpufreak | don't be so melodramatic |
| 11:02.45 | ChoHag | zplinux: Just ignore ant. He's the resident crone. |
| 11:33.54 | wethrin | Openvz looks quite handy. Solaris containers are good Juju too |
| 11:37.55 | DiscordianUK | lxc containers on pukka linux (like RHEL/Centos/etc) are better and more standard juju |
| 11:38.52 | DiscordianUK | rhel6 obviously |
| 11:39.46 | wethrin | Always nice to have competition in the field of containerisation! |
| 11:40.20 | DiscordianUK | i guess so |
| 11:54.32 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (~dick_turp@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 11:54.59 | dick_turpin | Afternoon all |
| 12:15.47 | bilarh | w00t, 20% vat :D |
| 12:16.23 | bilarh | from the 4th of jan |
| 12:20.13 | bilarh | boo, 28% cgt only :( |
| 12:36.23 | *** join/#gllug celesteh (~celesteh@sblug/member/celesteh) |
| 12:36.48 | dick_turpin | I would have thought the IMF will have foreclosed long before the 4th Jan |
| 12:37.47 | bilarh | probably |
| 12:40.23 | antiphase | looks forward to petrol at £1.50/l |
| 12:41.02 | dick_turpin | antiphase: Is it going down in price then? |
| 12:41.45 | dick_turpin | We was up to £1.25 at one point, currently £1.14 |
| 12:41.52 | bilarh | 1.14 |
| 12:41.57 | bilarh | wtf i paid 1.21 the other day |
| 12:43.19 | dick_turpin | bilarh: Its up and down like a yo yo up here, I've driven home and its one price driven to work the next day and its changed over night |
| 12:43.59 | hali | more expensive in London, cheaper in lush places like lancs |
| 12:44.18 | bilarh | hali: "lush", you little chav ;) |
| 12:44.30 | hali | ironic |
| 12:44.49 | hali | lush slapper outfits :) |
| 12:47.13 | bilarh | mmm slappers |
| 12:47.30 | bilarh | boudiccas: speaking of which, how was the mammogram? :D |
| 12:49.13 | dick_turpin | suddenly wakes up |
| 12:49.49 | bilarh | awaits the letter from the lawyer's / the police to knock on his door |
| 12:50.21 | *** join/#gllug stu_ (~stu@dyn1242-193.vpn.ic.ac.uk) |
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| 12:57.45 | cbz | www.petrolprices.com |
| 13:02.14 | cpufreak | petrol is cheap |
| 13:02.17 | cpufreak | its cheaper than water |
| 13:02.26 | wethrin | except when taxed |
| 13:02.32 | cpufreak | even still |
| 13:02.40 | cpufreak | in a restaurant last week, it was 3quid/litre for sparkling water |
| 13:02.46 | cpufreak | which has just come from scotland |
| 13:02.53 | wethrin | ouch |
| 13:03.19 | cpufreak | a litre of petrol which has come all the way from saudi arabia, been drilled out of the ground, and shipped half way around the world |
| 13:03.47 | bilarh | it's not so much petrol that is cheap as bottled water that is expensive :P |
| 13:04.14 | bilarh | oil should be cheaper still.. it's literally pouring out of holes in the ground |
| 13:08.31 | antiphase | I don't think we import a lot of Middle Eastern oil tbh. It's cheaper to use the shit that comes out of the North Sea |
| 13:09.04 | Leeds | there's less and less shit coming out of the north sea, and more and more being used |
| 13:09.16 | cpufreak | not true. |
| 13:09.42 | cpufreak | the british bits of the north sea aren't producing as much as they were |
| 13:09.48 | cpufreak | but the same is not true for the norweigan bits |
| 13:09.54 | antiphase | The noggies probably still have a butt load |
| 13:10.01 | antiphase | r |
| 13:10.29 | bilarh | the uk changed to a net importer of oil a couple of years back afaik |
| 13:11.01 | bilarh | a big part of the norwegian oil is still refined here in the UK as well |
| 13:11.17 | Leeds | http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file43846.pdf |
| 13:11.24 | Leeds | both right :) |
| 13:12.19 | Leeds | I didn't say anything about the middle east... |
| 13:13.27 | cpufreak | we wont be an oil importer for much longer. |
| 13:13.45 | cpufreak | once falklands is up and running |
| 13:26.17 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (~dick_turp@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 13:29.14 | dick_turpin | British Chancellor, George Osborne claims Beethoven faked deafness to fraudulently obtain Disability Living Allowance! Bwahahahaha |
| 13:29.27 | wethrin | heh |
| 13:29.30 | wethrin | newsbiscuit.com? |
| 13:31.33 | dick_turpin | wethrin: You mean the misses? |
| 13:32.27 | wethrin | ahh |
| 13:38.13 | dick_turpin | wethrin: Her place is in a right mess at the minute, she has had two interviews for two different promotions. No decisions have been made, nobody knows whats going on and to add insult to injury |
| 13:39.24 | dick_turpin | They have put a massive board up with silhouettes of heads and and positions with the message "Could this be you?" |
| 13:41.12 | wethrin | heh |
| 13:43.15 | dick_turpin | I did try an be helpful and advise her to take a tape measure to work then measure everyone's head against the board, for some strange reason she didn't like my idea? |
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| 19:53.44 | gregj | 20% vat? are they fucking mad ? you can't milk dead cow. |
| 20:31.50 | *** join/#gllug stafacus (~stafacus@78.146.208.237) |
| 21:00.23 | AndyMillar | gregj: te budget was pretty good tbh |
| 21:00.30 | AndyMillar | CGT increase was fairly low |
| 21:01.18 | gregj | but raising vat is going to kill ecomy |
| 21:01.19 | gregj | economy |
| 21:01.43 | gregj | so, what's the point of raising the tax, to get more money, only to lower the economy, which is going to result in lower income from taxes |
| 21:01.50 | gregj | how stuppid one has to be to get such an idea |
| 21:02.37 | gregj | I thought labour were capable of doing it, but not conservatives. I was hoping these guys do have brains |
| 21:02.53 | AndyMillar | how is that VAT increase going to kill the economy? |
| 21:03.18 | gregj | you are no serious, are you? |
| 21:03.36 | gregj | more tax, means less spending, because things are more expensive |
| 21:03.38 | gregj | for one |
| 21:04.12 | gregj | plus you are going to get every bussiness do 'sale' 'quick before vat increase' and that sort of shit |
| 21:04.18 | gregj | people are going to be very aware of it |
| 21:04.36 | AndyMillar | tax increases were inevitable, and nothing that was said was actually that bad :) |
| 21:04.37 | gregj | that's just the way things are |
| 21:04.43 | gregj | inevitable ? |
| 21:04.46 | gregj | seriously ? |
| 21:04.59 | gregj | conservatives should lower taxes, and stuppid spendings |
| 21:05.05 | gregj | rather than raise taxes |
| 21:05.08 | AndyMillar | they are reducing spending |
| 21:05.20 | gregj | well, than they have some sort of a brain problem |
| 21:05.52 | AndyMillar | they have reduced some taxes, and where they have had to make tax increases the increases have been low |
| 21:06.23 | gregj | tax reduction always means boost in economy |
| 21:06.41 | AndyMillar | tax reduction isn't sustainable given the epic mess we're in |
| 21:06.44 | gregj | why on earth otherwise, rich people would go and register their business in countries with very low tax ? |
| 21:07.08 | gregj | if you really want to pay more, how about just givig away half your money every month to strangers, so they can have a good time |
| 21:07.21 | gregj | is amazed how people love to be robbed these days |
| 21:08.23 | gregj | I do remember days when govt was asking people on what they should spending excess in budget |
| 21:08.32 | gregj | that wasn't so long time ago |
| 21:08.37 | gregj | and taxes were lower |
| 21:08.40 | gregj | so... |
| 21:08.43 | AndyMillar | before you can reduce tax (now, courtesy of an incompetent Labour government), you need to reduce the waste in the public sector and reduce the debt |
| 21:08.50 | AndyMillar | *then* you can begin to reduce taxes |
| 21:08.57 | gregj | it is a govt |
| 21:09.02 | gregj | they should reduce tax first |
| 21:09.16 | AndyMillar | what? and put your head in the sand with regards to the debt? |
| 21:09.17 | gregj | and than seek savings |
| 21:09.24 | gregj | otherwise they don't have urge to do it |
| 21:09.26 | AndyMillar | you want us to be another Greece? |
| 21:09.51 | gregj | (where taxes and bureocracy was higher, due to wonderfull EU) |
| 21:10.22 | gregj | grece had number of problems, and the UK fortunatelly doesn't have most of them |
| 21:10.41 | gregj | if I want someone to spend less money, I don't give them first more |
| 21:10.50 | gregj | it is illogicall |
| 21:11.01 | gregj | govt is spending someone elses money |
| 21:11.04 | AndyMillar | but if we're not careful, and we do just reduce tax now, we'll just end up in more debt spiriling out of control |
| 21:11.17 | gregj | you can't give them more, and expect them to spend less |
| 21:11.24 | AndyMillar | (and I'm not someone who agrees with the currentl insanely high levels of tax in this country :-)) |
| 21:11.33 | gregj | reducing taxes actually spins up the economy |
| 21:11.43 | gregj | people have more money in their pockets, and they spend more |
| 21:12.09 | gregj | govt should absoltely get only minimum money required for the job, and not a penny more |
| 21:12.14 | AndyMillar | indeed |
| 21:12.19 | AndyMillar | but that change can't happen overnight |
| 21:12.24 | gregj | but they are very good at convincing people, that they need money to do more |
| 21:13.23 | gregj | since when , when govt is doing something, it is cheaper and better? |
| 21:13.23 | gregj | it isn't |
| 21:13.23 | gregj | that's the fat |
| 21:13.23 | gregj | fact |
| 21:13.47 | gregj | luckily people in the UK are not nearly as stuppid as people in the EU, because govts here were competent enough not to agree on number of nonsenses |
| 21:14.22 | gregj | greece was (is) victum of the EU naivity, that things will get better, if we spend more money, and have more laws |
| 21:14.35 | gregj | I don't know why people don't like to be responsible for themselves anymrore |
| 21:14.57 | gregj | I was always tought that things don't happen themselves, and I should take action if I want something done for myself. |
| 21:15.30 | gregj | (maybe because I was born in different realms, and different country) - but people here are expecting govt to do everything for them, and 'protect' them, and 'care' for them |
| 21:15.34 | gregj | simple - wtf? |
| 21:17.02 | gregj | I wish I was a govt, and could just ask for more money, because I am spending more |
| 21:17.16 | gregj | and than even ask for more, because i need to cut my spendings |
| 21:17.24 | gregj | seriously, no logic in that wahtsoever... |
| 21:22.31 | gregj | anyway, gotta go back to work .Will have to raise hourly rate, to pay that 3% difference. |
| 21:22.55 | gregj | or maybe I should write an email to my customers , saying, that I am spending more, and need to cut on that, therefore I have to raise my hourly rate by, say 30% |
| 21:23.33 | gregj | 17->20, that's 15% increase |
| 23:59.02 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@n219078058222.netvigator.com) |
