| 00:46.26 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@pcd417142.netvigator.com) |
| 03:34.49 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@www.scorefive.com) |
| 04:48.31 | *** join/#gllug drdrambuie (~joe@cpe-98-15-205-133.hvc.res.rr.com) |
| 04:54.10 | drdrambuie | Hi |
| 05:01.08 | Leeds | afternoon |
| 05:02.00 | drdrambuie | Was wondering if there are any LUG meets in London next week |
| 05:03.01 | Leeds | somewhat unlikely, I'd say |
| 05:04.58 | drdrambuie | :) |
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| 07:06.12 | ChoHag | Does any version of Linux a) not suck too much, and b) squeeze every last watt hour out of a laptop battery? |
| 07:47.04 | morsing | a) Not really - b) Disable stuff |
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| 08:19.21 | morsing | 3702 entries in the hosts file on this system... |
| 08:23.19 | antiphase | That's what you get for using an operating system from the 1970s |
| 08:23.50 | morsing | More like sysadmins from the '70s... |
| 08:31.50 | kjs | Morning |
| 08:32.14 | hali | everyone knows DNS is pure evil |
| 08:32.37 | kjs | yeah we should all memorise ip addresses instead |
| 08:32.58 | morsing | Yes, rsync'ing hsots files to everyone is the solution to all problems - or even better, NIS |
| 08:33.04 | morsing | hosts |
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| 09:14.49 | morsing | jason_ukfsn! |
| 09:15.29 | jason_ukfsn | morning all |
| 09:21.02 | morsing | jason_ukfsn: Have you got any info on Fujitsu's new high speed natioonwide open fibre netwrok? |
| 09:21.12 | morsing | Minus the typos |
| 09:21.21 | kjs | morsing: use puppet. |
| 09:21.26 | kjs | or dns ;) |
| 09:21.34 | morsing | kjs: :) |
| 09:21.34 | jason_ukfsn | no morsing I don't. |
| 09:21.54 | *** join/#gllug gmarkall (~graham@dyn1200-29.wlan.ic.ac.uk) |
| 09:26.21 | jason_ukfsn | morsing, I just read the few details that are available and I have to say I've seen this kind of announcement before from others and nobody has ever delivered. The crucial point in this is that they state they are expecting OFCOM to force BT to give them access to BT's duct networks on what they deem fair and reasonable terms yet BT have already stated that they will do no such thing unless they get a return in kind and OFCOM do not have a history of forc |
| 09:26.21 | jason_ukfsn | ing BT to do such things. |
| 09:26.35 | jason_ukfsn | The last mile is BT's and OFCOM are happy with that. |
| 09:26.45 | morsing | gmarkall! |
| 09:27.12 | morsing | jason_ukfsn: 'k |
| 09:27.19 | jason_ukfsn | The level of investment required to roll out FTT(C|H) and do your own last mile will be far greater than £2bn and they will also have planning problems as well. |
| 09:29.32 | jason_ukfsn | I'd love to see it happen because it's the kind of thing I want to be offering UKFSN customers and I want to do so without paying BT's relatively high wholesale charges. I do not think Fujitsu will be able to deliver that though as they will have to recover their billions of investment plus a good profit. The financial world has changed from when the original cable companies made their investment and banks and other investors now do want to get their mone |
| 09:29.32 | jason_ukfsn | y back. They were burnt badly by the cable rollout and other similar projects |
| 09:30.50 | murb | jason_ukfsn: so ukfsn won't be applying for powers to lay cable in the near future? :) |
| 09:32.04 | morsing | jason_ukfsn: Can you not apply for a gov loan and do it yourself? I'll help you dig... |
| 09:32.37 | morsing | wonders how other countries have managed to cover their country with 100Mb/s fibre |
| 09:32.40 | jason_ukfsn | murb, LOL! |
| 09:33.16 | murb | morsing: what is 100Mb/s fibre? |
| 09:33.28 | murb | I'm happily seeing 10Gb/s over an old bit of OM2. |
| 09:33.57 | jason_ukfsn | 100Mb/s? Is that the stuff they make artificial christmas trees from? |
| 09:34.09 | morsing | Why's the UK so far behind? |
| 09:35.38 | jason_ukfsn | We're not really that far behind. If they wanted to BT could roll out 100Mb/s right now to most of the UK. It would require a more rapid investment in FTTC but it's doable. |
| 09:36.19 | antiphase | What do you need that much bandwidth for at home? |
| 09:36.22 | morsing | jason_ukfsn: What speeds can BT's FTTC really handle? |
| 09:36.28 | morsing | antiphase: Porm |
| 09:36.29 | morsing | Porn |
| 09:36.35 | jason_ukfsn | Frankly I think it's all a bit of a red herring. People don't really need 100Mb/s. Even if we're stupid enough to think that the internet is a good delivery media for HD media (it is not compared to other broadcast media) 100Mb/s is way ott |
| 09:37.10 | antiphase | 10Mbps is more than most people will ever need until there is widespread delivery of high-definition video over IP |
| 09:37.20 | jason_ukfsn | BT's have already announced that they will be taking FTTC to 100Mb/s at some point in the not too distant future. |
| 09:37.58 | jason_ukfsn | Realtime HD Video over IP is a mistake. Radio/Satellite broadcast is a far better medium for it. |
| 09:38.20 | jason_ukfsn | Even if you do want realtime HD video you only need 30Mb/s to do that comfortably |
| 09:38.28 | antiphase | Satellite maybe. Terrestrial radio spectrum is worth a lot of money |
| 09:38.40 | jason_ukfsn | My connection here is 35Mb/s down and 8Mb/s up on FTTC |
| 09:39.17 | morsing | jason_ukfsn: Isn't the problem that with broadcast people can't order the HD film exactly when they want it? |
| 09:39.45 | morsing | jason_ukfsn: Same as mine and we happily watch iPlayer and 4oD stuff although not in HD |
| 09:40.36 | jason_ukfsn | morsing, people want that (perhaps?) but if they are not willing to pay for it they cannot have it over IP reliably and people are NOT willing to pay for it. |
| 09:41.47 | jason_ukfsn | Consider that at best the cost of the backhaul over BT's wholesale platform to the ISP (without any consideration of the cost of infrastructure on the part of the ISP) is £50 per Mb/s. Proper HD Video requires 24Mb/s of actual throughput. |
| 09:41.54 | antiphase | Make people pay £1000 a month for 100Mbps |
| 09:42.01 | antiphase | Then they'll change their minds |
| 09:42.41 | morsing | You can get 100Mb/s for less than that, after the £3000 sign-up fee |
| 09:43.01 | antiphase | What's the CIR? |
| 09:43.08 | jason_ukfsn | If enough people want to do HD video to justify it being a real requirement then the cost they pay will need to be nearer to at least £60 per Mb/s so HD video will cost at least £1500 per month |
| 09:43.53 | jason_ukfsn | morsing, you can only get that in London and even then it's not uncontended 100Mb/s. |
| 09:43.58 | AndyMillar | "People don't really need 100Mb/s[citation needed]" |
| 09:44.31 | jason_ukfsn | AndyMillar, can you show any real requirement for it that shows a need? Nobody I've ever asked has been able to. |
| 09:44.40 | morsing | jason_ukfsn: Where do you get "Only in London"? |
| 09:45.04 | morsing | A&A promise availability to 90% of business addresses - I assume they mean UK wide |
| 09:45.32 | antiphase | If you need to have fibre run to some rural location, it's not going to be £3k |
| 09:45.53 | jason_ukfsn | morsing, I should have said major cities or very near to a POP. |
| 09:46.16 | morsing | antiphase: I live 50 miles from London and their quote for 100Mb/s fibre is £3400 installed and £1500 monthly |
| 09:47.08 | antiphase | 50 miles from London is still "London". Try that in Scarborough |
| 09:47.18 | antiphase | selects random grim Northern town |
| 09:47.46 | morsing | I most certainly don't live in disgusting London! |
| 09:48.01 | antiphase | We still don't know what apart from porn and piracy justifies the need for it, other than just for dick-waving in the office |
| 09:48.40 | morsing | I thought porn justified the entire existense of the Internet? |
| 09:49.16 | antiphase | I suppose you community-spirited people would sacrifice half your connection seeding Debian torrents, before finding out after one month that 50Mbps actually costs you more than £1500 when you factor in usage |
| 09:51.11 | jason_ukfsn | antiphase, usually if you are paying for a dedicated circuit (ie leased line), which I suspect is what morsing has been quoted for, you don't have usage charging. |
| 09:54.30 | antiphase | I figured the ISP might get a little batey if everyone raped their connection 24/7 |
| 09:55.48 | kjs | na they love it |
| 09:56.49 | murb | antiphase: for 1500 quid a month you could rent a couple of U of rack space and pay for a 1Gig connection. |
| 09:57.02 | antiphase | Not fully committed you couldn't |
| 09:57.04 | murb | or a full rack and some 100meg feeds. |
| 09:57.12 | murb | antiphase: you could from the likes of HE. |
| 09:57.17 | murb | s/you/can/ |
| 09:57.36 | murb | (not commenting on the quality of their transit or anything.) |
| 09:58.28 | antiphase | Even Cogent charge at least twice that if you're buying 1Gb last time I knew anything about it |
| 10:00.11 | AndyMillar | for £35 you can get a decent powered 1U server with a pair of gig-e connections (ok, only a few mb commit) |
| 10:01.40 | antiphase | After all this talk, I feel like downloading some pr0n and warez |
| 10:02.08 | murb | antiphase: you'll be wanting a newsfeed then.. |
| 10:05.51 | AndyMillar | tbh, I'd be more of a fan of reduced latency to the home, and less of increased bandwidth |
| 10:06.25 | morsing | My latency is fairly acceptable, not causing problems |
| 10:11.35 | AndyMillar | mine's about 15ms to where I want to go, which is pretty shocking really |
| 10:11.43 | *** join/#gllug PcSett (~Don@host86-162-31-32.range86-162.btcentralplus.com) |
| 10:15.37 | morsing | AndyMillar: Shocking maybe, but a problem? Mine's 7ms |
| 10:16.55 | AndyMillar | depends what you're trying to do, 15ms is a very long time |
| 10:17.52 | morsing | lol :) |
| 10:18.01 | morsing | If you're waiting for porn, then yes |
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| 10:32.47 | *** join/#gllug sabinef72 (~sabinef72@ns.popipo.fr) |
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| 11:48.37 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (~sales@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 12:34.02 | *** join/#gllug s___marcu (~marcus@lenny.uk-debtcollection.com) |
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| 13:47.03 | morsing | gmarkall! |
| 13:47.05 | morsing | sabinef72! |
| 13:47.08 | morsing | s___marcu! |
| 13:53.44 | *** join/#gllug skinjob (~skinjob@host109-154-49-213.range109-154.btcentralplus.com) |
| 13:54.05 | skinjob | ello |
| 13:54.59 | morsing | skinjob |
| 13:54.59 | morsing | ! |
| 13:56.03 | skinjob | morsing, :) |
| 13:56.05 | skinjob | ! |
| 13:56.34 | antiphase | Uh oh, it's another comma jockey |
| 13:57.12 | skinjob | D: |
| 13:59.01 | skinjob | whats occuring? |
| 14:01.55 | AndyMillar | skinjob, it's the post-lunch energy lull |
| 14:05.29 | dick_turpin | puts down his toe crud and looks up at the sudden activity |
| 14:06.29 | skinjob | wow, is it normally this busy? |
| 14:06.40 | antiphase | There's no-one called wow in here |
| 14:07.02 | antiphase | Oh, that was a proper comma and not a mistake while typing a : |
| 14:07.03 | antiphase | ;) |
| 14:07.06 | skinjob | theres a bot called antiphase tho |
| 14:07.14 | antiphase | fizzes |
| 14:07.17 | AndyMillar | antiphase, interesting |
| 14:07.22 | skinjob | fascinating |
| 14:07.25 | antiphase | bleaches his eyes |
| 14:08.04 | antiphase | skinjob: I'm slightly perturbed by your nick, to tell the truth |
| 14:08.46 | skinjob | antiphase, you just failed the turing test theres no real comeback from that |
| 14:08.52 | skinjob | why are you perturbed? |
| 14:09.02 | antiphase | It's a lot like blowjob or hand-job |
| 14:09.13 | skinjob | sounds wrong if you think about it like that |
| 14:09.15 | antiphase | I have some cognitive dissonance I think |
| 14:09.15 | AndyMillar | skinjob, antiphase has a rather special mind |
| 14:10.10 | skinjob | great |
| 14:10.28 | antiphase | Branes |
| 14:10.30 | dick_turpin | Thank Christ is nothing dick related |
| 14:10.44 | skinjob | yeh |
| 14:11.05 | AndyMillar | antiphase, I wonder what would happen if we gave dick_turpin skinjob |
| 14:11.11 | skinjob | that would be peverse |
| 14:11.48 | dick_turpin | I'm open to any job how much money you got? |
| 14:19.04 | skinjob | well, thanks for the welcome; I've found the dialogue to be an inspiring and enriching experience :) |
| 14:24.04 | AndyMillar | skinjob, I can't find anyone called well in here :) |
| 14:24.05 | dick_turpin | That'll be £50 then |
| 14:25.37 | dick_turpin | wonders if antiphase would approve of skunkgob |
| 14:26.51 | antiphase | A finger of Fudge is just enough |
| 14:28.24 | dick_turpin | antiphase: Ahahahahaha |
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| 15:54.11 | morsing | gmarkall! |
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| 16:17.34 | morsing | sabinef72! |
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| 19:37.43 | *** topic/#gllug is Welcome to the Greater London Linux User Group IRC channel | http://www.gllug.org.uk |
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| 21:04.31 | gregj | I just got an offer on my old laptop, the guy send an email - and the name on the email is 'a douche' |
| 21:04.35 | gregj | <facepalm> |
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