| 01:40.35 | *** join/#gllug troymit99 (~troy@c-98-221-9-6.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 04:07.36 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@n058153115252.netvigator.com) |
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| 08:05.54 | morsing | quaisi |
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| 11:52.38 | toxboi | Why do people hate systemd? It's much better than upstart. |
| 11:54.38 | toxboi | morsing: Which OS do you use? |
| 11:58.57 | morsing | toxboi: Where? |
| 12:01.42 | toxboi | morsing: on your PC. |
| 12:03.52 | morsing | On my laptop, currently Windows 8, as trying to install a firmware driver broke Linux |
| 12:04.04 | morsing | On my desktop PC, Win 7 and MacOS 10.6 |
| 12:04.28 | morsing | Can't remember if it's got an old Linux install though, I rarely use that PC |
| 12:04.46 | morsing | I actually downloaded Fedora yesterday, to try it on my laptop |
| 12:07.14 | ChoHag | Who gives a shit that it's better than upstart? |
| 12:07.27 | ChoHag | It hasn't bneen running stably for 30+ years. It can fuck off. |
| 12:07.36 | ChoHag | End of story. |
| 12:36.36 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (~peter@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 12:38.48 | dick_turpin | morsing: have you dried out yet or are you still half soaked? |
| 12:59.07 | morsing | Neither |
| 13:07.16 | dick_turpin | You should apply for that job in Notting Hill on the LinuxJobs mailing list. You'd be good at that. |
| 13:14.29 | jpds | toxboi: http://www.muktware.com/2014/01/linus-torvalds-cla-fundamentally-broken/19811 |
| 13:14.39 | jpds | toxboi: "people just like hating on Canonical." |
| 13:16.10 | gregj | "each hour into 100 decimal minutes, and each decimal minute into 100 decimal seconds. " |
| 13:16.20 | gregj | the word decimal seems to be misused in this sentence, or is it just me ? |
| 13:21.51 | toxboi | jpds: interesting article, thanks |
| 13:22.44 | dick_turpin | I'm not sure that's strictly true. Canonical is like some people you meet throughout your life that should really have "VICTIM" tattooed on their foreheads. Canonical nee Ubuntu just cant help rubbing people up the wrong way. |
| 13:25.15 | toxboi | ChoHag: There are a lot of limitations with init and systemd bring lots of useful features. I'm sure there should be a way to use init in Debian for people who prefer that way. |
| 13:25.44 | gregj | "In Britain, a contemporary wit mocked the Republican Calendar by calling the months: Wheezy, Sneezy and Freezy; Slippy, Drippy and Nippy; Showery, Flowery and Bowery; Wheaty, Heaty and Sweety.[8]" |
| 13:25.48 | gregj | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republican_Calendar |
| 13:26.45 | ChoHag | No. |
| 13:26.56 | ChoHag | init needs to start services on boot and stop them prior to shutdown. |
| 13:26.58 | ChoHag | That is all. |
| 13:27.19 | ChoHag | I don't take kindly to PID 1 crashing. |
| 13:27.33 | dick_turpin | I thought that was what upstart did? |
| 13:28.24 | ChoHag | Yeah but sysv has done it since 1974. |
| 13:28.58 | jpds | Erm, upstart and systemd are what manage /sbin/init. |
| 13:29.39 | ChoHag | upstart and systemd can suck my cock. |
| 13:29.53 | ChoHag | They surely have the necessary libraries linked. |
| 13:31.10 | ChoHag | sysvinit has 6, of which 2 are selinux, 3 part of the dynamic linking process and the 6th is libc. |
| 13:32.30 | jpds | $ dpkg -S /sbin/init |
| 13:32.37 | jpds | upstart: /sbin/init |
| 13:32.41 | ChoHag | Good for you. |
| 13:32.58 | ChoHag | That doesn't affect the cock-sucking requirement. |
| 13:33.23 | jpds | OK, have fun living in the past. |
| 13:33.57 | ChoHag | Thank you for the spiel. |
| 13:34.24 | ChoHag | It has been as useful as every other pro-upstart/systemd bollocks I've read or heard. |
| 13:34.26 | dick_turpin | I await the final battle of RPM over .deb Bwahahaha |
| 13:34.42 | ChoHag | To whit; "It's great" "Boot will be faster" and "It's not old." |
| 13:34.46 | ChoHag | None of these things is useful. |
| 13:35.12 | jpds | I haven't said anything pro-upstart/systemd. |
| 13:35.20 | ChoHag | Oh and not to forget the main reason: "Bash is haaaaaard" |
| 13:36.42 | gregj | hgahahaha |
| 13:38.42 | jpds | But yes, bash is crap, and when I write an init job I don't want to spend more than half an hour doing it. |
| 13:39.39 | ChoHag | Yes, well, enjoy never touching any system I have control of. |
| 13:39.44 | ChoHag | Kids these days. I swear to god. |
| 13:39.49 | ChoHag | Get off my lawn. |
| 13:40.08 | ChoHag | That was a dismissal. Don't respond, I don't care. |
| 13:41.00 | wethrin | Who cares about fast system boot times? |
| 13:41.07 | wethrin | How many people *actually* turn their computers off? |
| 13:42.19 | jpds | wethrin: The average user coming from Windows. |
| 13:42.47 | wethrin | Do Windows users shut their computers down, rather than placing them into standby? |
| 13:43.48 | dick_turpin | wethrin: I do |
| 13:44.02 | ChoHag | Oh yes I forgot one. |
| 13:45.00 | wethrin | dick_turpin: You're old. You don't count |
| 13:45.09 | dick_turpin | Admittedly the Windows machine at work stays on most of the time but my fedora box at work and at home get shutdown when I've finished. |
| 13:45.20 | jpds | wethrin: There's the preception that if a machine ages to boot, it's slow and rubbish. |
| 13:45.32 | dick_turpin | wethrin: You bastard, I hope you get piles. /me shakes fist |
| 13:45.35 | ChoHag | "With systemd/upstart this year will *surely* be the Year Of The Linux Desktop." |
| 13:46.07 | dick_turpin | Fooking year of the Linux Desktop FFS! |
| 13:46.15 | jpds | It's also nice to have jobs parallelized on startup, something sysvinit can't do. |
| 13:47.45 | ChoHag | It's even nicer when I can start it again and again and again and know without the tiniest shadow of a doubt that it will work. |
| 13:47.59 | ChoHag | Maybe that's just me. |
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| 13:48.47 | wethrin | jpds: This may be true. But 95% of people will be putting the machine into standby mode |
| 13:48.51 | ChoHag | But no, let's insert some of the most god-awful hacks known to man in the process by which the core functionality is started. |
| 13:49.01 | wethrin | ChoHag: *Next* year will be the Year of the Linux Desktop |
| 13:49.06 | ChoHag | And while we're at it, a GUI which mimics Microsoft. |
| 13:49.12 | ChoHag | wethrin: Surely. |
| 13:49.29 | wethrin | Pretty much once everyone doesn't give a toss about desktop computers |
| 13:49.36 | wethrin | Because everything's done via the web browser |
| 13:49.50 | ChoHag | HTTP is the new TCP. |
| 13:57.31 | dick_turpin | The Linux Desktop has been here for years it's just no fecker has noticed. |
| 14:02.07 | ChoHag | s/no fecker has noticed/shit/ |
| 14:02.25 | ChoHag | The problem is, it's shit compared to 2014 desktop/palmtop alternatives. |
| 14:02.33 | ChoHag | It's pretty fucking sweet compared to 1998. |
| 14:02.45 | ChoHag | But we're not in 1998. |
| 14:11.41 | dick_turpin | I'm waiting for someone to define exactly what they mean by "The year of the Linux desktop" anyway. Do they mean more desktop machines have Linux than Windows? Do they mean Linux has total market dominance? |
| 14:19.26 | morsing | Linux desktop in 1998 was better than it is now |
| 14:22.09 | dick_turpin | Oh are we saying the quality of the desktop is the defining factor? What's the metric for that then? functionality? Features? Some bird with her baps out wallpaper? |
| 14:22.36 | ChoHag | morsing: This is true. |
| 14:23.02 | ChoHag | I should have been clearer that the modern linux desktop is pretty fucking sweet compared to everything else from 1998. |
| 14:23.25 | ChoHag | Though mostly because Risc OS and Amiga Workbench were long dead. |
| 14:23.48 | ChoHag | Regardless of appearances to the contrary. They sre still dead. |
| 14:29.22 | ChoHag | dick: I think it's the bird with the baps. |
| 14:29.47 | ChoHag | Because that means it's ubiquitous. |
| 14:32.19 | dick_turpin | ChoHag: Why does this not surprise me? :-D |
| 14:33.25 | jpds | Then, Ubuntu won that award back in 2004: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Ubuntu_Warty_visual_theme |
| 14:33.32 | Leeds | I would say the year of the Linux desktop is the year that Linux gets recognised by the mainstream as a valid alternative to Windows or OSX for home/office workers |
| 14:33.38 | Leeds | and that it will never happen |
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| 14:37.48 | dick_turpin | Leeds: It would if Ubuntu stopped piss arsing about and went back to being a great desktop user experience. |
| 14:38.14 | Leeds | dick_turpin: the mobile experience for 1 billion ubuntu touch users is more important |
| 14:39.00 | jpds | Leeds: Or, say, government: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/end-user-devices-security-guidance-ubuntu-1204 |
| 14:39.38 | Leeds | I would actually explicitly exclude government |
| 14:50.41 | dick_turpin | Leeds: It'll never happen. |
| 14:51.14 | dick_turpin | Or if it does it will be small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. |
| 14:53.48 | dick_turpin | China will revert back to strong Communism soon anyway. The love affair with Capitalism is turning sour for them. |
| 16:28.55 | Leeds | dick_turpin: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26225205 |
| 16:48.52 | dick_turpin | Leeds: I based my opinion on a program I watched whereby lots of companies (And not just UK ones) are bringing the work back home and thousands of these huge factories-come-work places in China are lying empty. |
| 17:11.17 | *** part/#gllug dick_turpin (~peter@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |