| 01:50.42 | *** join/#gooseproject bochecha (~mathieu@fedora/bochecha) |
| 03:08.00 | *** join/#gooseproject thom_irc (~thom@24-145-116-019-dhcp.gsv.md.atlanticbb.net) |
| 14:18.09 | *** join/#gooseproject opapo (~quassel@205.118.116.101) |
| 14:55.16 | herlo | GoOSe Morning all! |
| 15:45.03 | shalkie | Morning. |
| 15:45.16 | shalkie | Okay, meeting tonight? |
| 15:47.11 | goozbach | yup |
| 15:47.14 | goozbach | 9pm ET |
| 20:32.45 | herlo | goozbach: ping |
| 20:33.19 | goozbach | pong |
| 20:33.55 | herlo | goozbach: I'm updating my presentation for SELF today |
| 20:33.56 | herlo | wanted some input on our goals... |
| 20:34.20 | herlo | here's what I have so far: |
| 20:36.07 | herlo | #1 Transparency; Visibility into the process (Anyone can repeat from our documentation) |
| 20:36.43 | herlo | #2 Involve the community: Built by AND for the community |
| 20:39.08 | goozbach | love it |
| 20:39.16 | goozbach | re-reads the manifesto |
| 20:39.50 | herlo | #3 Keeping up with the Joneses (aka upstream): Major releases within 120 days / Minor releases within 30 days |
| 20:40.00 | goozbach | yes |
| 20:41.16 | herlo | anything else you can think of? I realized these would be good to state in a presentation |
| 20:42.46 | goozbach | forkability |
| 20:43.05 | herlo | oh, I had that at one point! |
| 20:43.09 | herlo | let me add #4 |
| 20:43.18 | goozbach | can anyone take the process from where it is at *THIS* moment and run with it? |
| 20:43.26 | herlo | goozbach: oh, I do have that |
| 20:43.32 | herlo | 14:36 < herlo> #1 Transparency; Visibility into the process (Anyone can repeat from our documentation) |
| 20:43.52 | goozbach | honestly I think of transparency and forkability as two seperate things |
| 20:43.57 | herlo | goozbach: and I don't think that's true, yet. I'd like to focus on making that true |
| 20:44.13 | goozbach | transparancy is "this is what's going on" |
| 20:44.15 | herlo | I agree... |
| 20:44.20 | herlo | let me add it |
| 20:44.32 | goozbach | forkability is "this is what you do to make 'what's going on' happen" |
| 20:46.00 | herlo | right |
| 20:50.27 | herlo | goozbach: any others?? |
| 20:51.37 | *** join/#gooseproject jayeola (~jayeola@94-193-97-61.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:52.21 | goozbach | transparancy, community, update, forkability |
| 20:52.28 | goozbach | flexibilty perhaps |
| 20:52.36 | herlo | how does that fit? |
| 20:52.39 | goozbach | it's the longer term goal |
| 20:52.45 | goozbach | of making it easy to do spins |
| 20:52.57 | goozbach | which depends on the rest being done |
| 20:54.33 | herlo | I kind of think that is an ephemeral goal |
| 20:54.49 | herlo | but maybe that goes toward flexibility |
| 20:55.00 | herlo | letting others suggest ideas and giving them the room to 'get things done' |
| 20:55.53 | goozbach | that works |
| 20:56.15 | herlo | kk, that's going to be #5 |
| 20:56.20 | herlo | I think those are good goals |
| 20:57.33 | goozbach | yeah, I think so to |
| 20:57.35 | goozbach | too |
| 20:57.43 | herlo | #5 Meritocratic Flexibility |
| 20:57.52 | herlo | Provide the infrastructure and tooling |
| 20:57.59 | herlo | Let the community decide the direction of the project |
| 20:58.05 | jayeola | hello all. |
| 20:58.09 | herlo | And 'Get out of the way' of progress |
| 20:58.12 | herlo | hi jayeola :) |
| 20:58.30 | jayeola | listens attentively |
| 20:58.44 | herlo | jayeola: hehe, just working on my GoOSe presentation for SouthEast LinuxFest this weekend |
| 20:58.50 | herlo | feel free to join right in |
| 21:00.16 | jayeola | south east as in SE England? |
| 21:02.54 | herlo | as in North Carolina, USA |
| 21:03.13 | herlo | jayeola: http://www.southeastlinuxfest.org/ |
| 21:03.54 | herlo | http://www.southeastlinuxfest.org/2012s/sessions.html <-- look at friday 1:30pm |
| 21:09.51 | herlo | jayeola: from where do you hail? |
| 21:12.02 | jayeola | london, uk |
| 21:12.37 | jayeola | feel free to ask "what can jayeola bring to the table" |
| 21:13.19 | jayeola | other than that. i'll run goose on a vm, have a look at your code and such. oh yeah. ask loads of questions |
| 21:14.07 | jayeola | prolly throw a few docs your way. like right now, i'm reading http://www.ergo-project.org/sites/default/files/Release_Engineering-101-HOWTO_Create_Your_Own_Distribution-en-US.pdf |
| 21:15.15 | jayeola | i've built a koji server or two, working from the command line but i dont know enough about ssl to get koji-web working. anyway one of them is here http://jayeola.zapto.org/koji/ |
| 21:15.38 | herlo | ahh, ssl is easy on koji |
| 21:15.46 | jayeola | don't even bother trying to log in ;-) busted/broke/pfft |
| 21:15.49 | herlo | jayeola: if you like, I have an ssl script tat does the work... |
| 21:15.56 | herlo | s/tat/that/ |
| 21:16.03 | herlo | let me find it for ya. |
| 21:16.33 | herlo | jayeola: https://github.com/gooseproject/bootstrap/tree/develop/koji/koji/files |
| 21:17.07 | herlo | jayeola: if you haven't heard of 'salt', I would check it out. |
| 21:17.22 | herlo | the scripts are create_koji_pki and create_ssl_certs |
| 21:17.42 | jayeola | http://pastebin.com/qLdcdFSP |
| 21:17.46 | herlo | the configs are there as well which allow you to use salt to make a koji hub and koji web. It almost works perfectly |
| 21:18.30 | herlo | jayeola: yeah, that's what mine is based upon. I'm actually working on a salt-based pki with pyOpenSSL. I need to do a few more things, but it works well too... |
| 21:19.01 | goozbach | heads home from the B&N to have an afternoon/evening with his family |
| 21:19.29 | jayeola | you see, the whole "CN and OU" had me lost for a while... kojihub CN ==FDQN, kojiweb CN == FDQN. i would have thought that the would have been the "usernames" |
| 21:19.30 | herlo | jayeola: I'm sure you've read: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Koji/ServerHowTo |
| 21:19.56 | herlo | jayeola: well, you also use CN as a usenrame for users like kojiadmin |
| 21:19.58 | jayeola | yeah and i hated that doc. that was the doc that i practically lived in for a day or so |
| 21:20.09 | herlo | jayeola: I lived in it for about a month :) |
| 21:20.42 | herlo | the first time setting up koji took me about two weeks. The second about a day, the third and on about 4 hours. I can now do it in about 20-30 minuts with salt |
| 21:21.08 | jayeola | and also. kojiadmin can do everything from the command line. i have another script that makes "user browser certs" |
| 21:21.21 | goozbach | meeting tonight 9pm eastern time |
| 21:21.29 | herlo | goozbach: I won't be there |
| 21:21.30 | jayeola | 11 hours the first time, 90 mins the second time |
| 21:21.50 | herlo | goozbach: I tried to let you know earlier before you sent the meeting. Tuesday would have been better for me, but oh well... |
| 21:22.02 | herlo | jayeola: you is SMRT :) |
| 21:22.23 | herlo | it took me a long time to figure out how to login and how to get the pkcs12 certs working |
| 21:22.30 | goozbach | I'll send out an email for next week on sunday about the meeting time |
| 21:22.45 | goozbach | it was opapo and I last time and I was only there for a minute |
| 21:22.51 | herlo | goozbach: it's only the weeks I'm in town. Jennifer wants me to go to quiz night and it's on wednesdays |
| 21:23.09 | herlo | I'll be more available when I'm on the road. :) |
| 21:23.22 | herlo | goozbach: but yeah, makfinsky hasn't been around lately. |
| 21:23.26 | jayeola | so i am prepared to wipe an installation and start from scracth after reding your script. |
| 21:23.48 | herlo | jayeola: it works pretty well. But you need to know how to set up salt first. |
| 21:24.07 | herlo | jayeola: salt is similar in form to Puppet, but faster and cleaner for modules |
| 21:24.20 | jayeola | i do like the `koji call blahBlah` way of doing things though. shame that i don't know enough python. |
| 21:24.39 | herlo | jayeola: have a look at skein, it's got a lot of koji code in it too |
| 21:24.40 | jayeola | ... koji call blahMethod seems to show me more of what is going on |
| 21:25.00 | herlo | https://github.com/gooseproject/skein |
| 21:25.11 | herlo | jayeola: yeah, the koji api is *very* comprehensive. |
| 21:25.33 | herlo | I think most of the code is in https://github.com/gooseproject/skein/blob/master/skein/pyskein.py |
| 21:25.40 | herlo | for koji stuffs that is |
| 21:25.43 | jayeola | your presentation is what really got me interested in this project. it mentioned skein and i thought - "oh boy, another 11 hours before i understand this stuff" ;-) |
| 21:26.15 | jayeola | i am used to puppet. i quite like it |
| 21:26.17 | herlo | lol |
| 21:26.23 | herlo | puppet is nice, salt is nicer |
| 21:26.42 | jayeola | hrm. will put onto the to do list |
| 21:26.53 | jayeola | so mind if i start asking a few questions? |
| 21:26.56 | herlo | the IDL in puppet is painful sometimes. Their ordering is a bit difficult too, salt has a few caveats, but is much clearer and such... |
| 21:27.10 | herlo | jayeola: go ahead. I have a meeting in 30 minutes, but should be free until then... :) |
| 21:27.52 | jayeola | ok. i have an objective of making a build farm. a couple of boxes that build OSes, tests, and spits them out. |
| 21:28.27 | jayeola | ... i have a decent laptop that can dual boot or run the iso as required. how much disk space does one need for a build? |
| 21:28.45 | jayeola | in otherwords a complete build of an OS. |
| 21:29.48 | jayeola | you may also want to consider making templates for openVZ. it's a nice light weight virtualisation method. |
| 21:30.13 | herlo | k |
| 21:30.33 | jayeola | examples here http://download.openvz.org/contrib/template/precreated/ |
| 21:30.56 | herlo | well, building an OS isn't really that difficult, you could generate an openvz template from goose and it would be similar in size to the centos or rhel ones I've seen |
| 21:31.17 | herlo | the hard part is putting the pieces in the right order |
| 21:31.26 | jayeola | it's a "chroot on steriods". one can run a few instances on a crappy old laptop like i do ;-) |
| 21:31.30 | herlo | especially the RPM dependencies |
| 21:31.32 | jayeola | hrm |
| 21:31.47 | herlo | you can run koji on a few vms, that would certainly work. |
| 21:32.13 | herlo | you need kojihub and kojweb (on the same box for GoOSe) and you need koji builders, we have 4 that work atm |
| 21:32.35 | jayeola | that's another question. i would like to split things up too. |
| 21:32.38 | herlo | with koji, you also need the buildroots, for srpm and regular rpm builds |
| 21:33.23 | jayeola | does it go like this... VM 1 = koji hub + kojiweb VM 2 = kojibuilder1, VM3 = kojibuilde2... etc |
| 21:33.32 | herlo | and you need somewhere to store all of this data. The way it's usually done is over an nfs share, specifically for the buildroot stuff, but it's not necessary. |
| 21:33.54 | herlo | jayeola: sure, the way they are linked is by adding them either via the web interface or cli |
| 21:33.57 | *** join/#gooseproject thom_irc (~thom@ip98-169-58-65.dc.dc.cox.net) |
| 21:34.10 | jayeola | it's gonna have to be an external hard disk over "something" ;-) |
| 21:34.12 | herlo | the hub then distributes jobs to each builder and tracks results |
| 21:34.19 | jayeola | aha! |
| 21:34.37 | herlo | jayeola: actually, it can be one hard drive and you can do the builders remotely. Builds will take longer though and NFS is not a strict requirement |
| 21:35.02 | jayeola | tell me something... how useful is this doc? http://www.ergo-project.org/group/infrastructure/koji-for-rpmfusion |
| 21:35.05 | herlo | I was toying with the idea of doing webdav |
| 21:35.17 | herlo | jayeola: never read it, don't know. let me have a look |
| 21:35.20 | jayeola | i know it's out of date but are the principles more or less the same? |
| 21:36.49 | herlo | jayeola: seems reasonable, that workflow is similar to what we do here |
| 21:37.04 | jayeola | and where does skien fit in? which host would that run on? |
| 21:37.13 | herlo | fedora has a more complex process for approving rpms though, since they are getting them from people that aren't necessarily trusted each and every time. |
| 21:37.47 | jayeola | ah, maybe that's why they kept the koji documentation so cr8ppy. |
| 21:37.51 | herlo | the SRPMS we get come from upstream that *should* work in some fashion. We're finding out it's not perfect, but they are more reliable in that way... |
| 21:38.07 | jayeola | might as well been in japanese the first time that i read it |
| 21:38.16 | herlo | the koji docs aren't too crappy, once you know what you are looking for, it's just difficult to know how koji works from that document. |
| 21:38.24 | herlo | jayeola: it felt that way to me as well. |
| 21:38.55 | jayeola | innit. but the koji api is really nice. almost self documentin |
| 21:39.18 | herlo | skein fits into the mix to help us extract SRPMs, upload the tarballs to the lookaside cache and store the rest (SRPM, patches, sha256sums of the sources, etc) to git repositories |
| 21:39.59 | herlo | skein can also build rpms in koji, it can query github (the git repo we use) for new rpm requests, etc. |
| 21:40.29 | jayeola | another script that i use to make browser certs http://pastebin.com/fTRrYjQa |
| 21:40.42 | jayeola | i'll have to look at the way that you guys do things |
| 21:40.49 | herlo | skein needs quite a few new features, like 'update' and vanilla branch management when we change a spec or SRPM because upstream didn't do it properly. |
| 21:41.50 | jayeola | ok, so you can probably tell that i'm fairly technical but new to this whole kojiMojo. don't expect too much from me ;-) |
| 21:41.51 | herlo | jayeola: feel free to ask questions, we don't have everything documented and are still really in a discovery process. I have really enjoyed learning how an OS is built though, it's tons of fun. We'd love to have someone with your desire and ability to join up. It could be very mutually beneficial. :) |
| 21:42.54 | jayeola | well at the moment all i am doing is using a single box to put all of the koji components on to it. once i'm happy with it then i'll do the same here |
| 21:42.56 | herlo | jayeola: hehe, not to worry. I think you'd fit right in and could help contribute at least to the docs :) |
| 21:43.16 | herlo | jayeola: yeah, that's how we did it too. Now it's a whole infrastructure to itself! |
| 21:43.20 | jayeola | http://blag.fsf.org/koji/ |
| 21:43.31 | herlo | jayeola: you help the fsf? |
| 21:43.34 | jayeola | yeah |
| 21:43.46 | herlo | cool, do you know sinuhe? |
| 21:43.49 | jayeola | gnu blag linux |
| 21:43.57 | herlo | I worked with him at Guru Labs a few years back |
| 21:44.06 | herlo | jayeola: yeah, heard of it. Good stuff! |
| 21:44.07 | jayeola | Brixton Linux Action Group. based in brixton, london. |
| 21:44.18 | herlo | awesome! |
| 21:44.30 | jayeola | that's the only reason why i had to get into koji. now i am hooked unfortunately |
| 21:44.35 | herlo | so it's getting pretty late there for you, isn't it? |
| 21:44.46 | jayeola | i live on koji can cornflakes |
| 21:44.51 | herlo | lol |
| 21:44.55 | jayeola | or for the last few days or so |
| 21:45.07 | herlo | yeah, koji is addicting |
| 21:45.14 | herlo | And very useful |
| 21:45.32 | jayeola | you have a meeting soon. what's the best way for me to get to speed so that i can be of use to you all? |
| 21:45.33 | herlo | I recall when koji.gooselinux.org looked like that :) |
| 21:46.00 | herlo | jayeola: probably reading the minutes from way back when. We have had meetings almost every week for over a year now. |
| 21:46.27 | jayeola | url is in an email that you have sent to me... better pull them all down and red them |
| 21:46.27 | herlo | if you want to learn about koji, I'd read the link I gave before. I still need to do a better job of documenting things, but they are definitely in progress |
| 21:46.33 | herlo | yeah, it sure is |
| 21:46.52 | herlo | shouldn't be too bad, I think our channel is also logged |
| 21:46.53 | herlo | ~logs |
| 21:46.53 | ibot | All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gooseproject/ Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily. |
| 21:47.34 | jayeola | i used to hate that koji url from fedora, but now i cannot think of anything else. i even have a perl "wrapper" for koji that i started this afternoon |
| 21:48.06 | jayeola | not very useful to any one but it helped me to break things down into tiny little chunks |
| 21:48.11 | herlo | but we do try to do documentation too, sadly, it's not where it should be yet. Mostly, it's been a discovery process for us and that's where we are today. I think the next phase is to get us caught up to upstream, then go back and do it all over again from scratch. I'd like to take my time the second time around and document and automate the process more completely. |
| 21:48.36 | herlo | what koji url? |
| 21:48.37 | jayeola | automation is where i want to be! |
| 21:49.01 | jayeola | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Koji/ServerHowTo # << this is home |
| 21:49.05 | herlo | jayeola: well, get into salt, you'll love it. All of the stuff that can be automated in GoOSe Project will be automated with Salt :) |
| 21:49.20 | herlo | jayeola: haha, okay, wasn't sure if that's what you meant :P |
| 21:49.50 | jayeola | i have logged this session if you don't mind. time to start reading again |
| 21:49.51 | herlo | jayeola: btw, I just uploaded my latest slides: https://speakerdeck.com/u/herlo/p/goose-linux-rebuilding-enterprise-linux |
| 21:49.59 | herlo | jayeola: hehe, so have we :) |
| 21:50.04 | jayeola | grabs with wget |
| 21:50.08 | herlo | we want to be as transparent as possible |
| 21:50.54 | jayeola | so what is your stance on free software? like if a binary blob *must* be running on a box? |
| 21:51.10 | jayeola | or some such server firmware... |
| 21:51.23 | herlo | heh, I'm all for everything being free, but practicality always gets in the way |
| 21:52.02 | jayeola | yeah. even though i am on the BLAG team, i use the b43 broadcom driver on my laptop. |
| 21:52.11 | jayeola | shame but life goes on |
| 21:52.30 | herlo | the debate is whether you can actually have a free operating system with the flexibility of Linux without using blobs and such. Hardware vendors don't seem to think it's an issue and until you can convince them otherwise, I don't think it's going to change. |
| 21:52.48 | herlo | jayeola: I love Intel for the fact that *most* of its drivers are free |
| 21:53.02 | herlo | I don't use anything else, if I can help it |
| 21:53.10 | jayeola | i love thinkpads, mainly for that reason too |
| 21:53.37 | herlo | unfortunately, Lenovo isn't as friendly as IBM was |
| 21:54.00 | jayeola | yeah, that's why i still rock an ibm thinkpad x40... |
| 21:54.05 | herlo | they are going the wrong way with them, the next release of Thinkpads have chiclet keyboards. It'll only be a matter of time before the trackpoint disappears :( |
| 21:54.24 | herlo | I have an x220, an x201 and an t60p |
| 21:54.47 | herlo | the x220 has a touchpad because Lenovo doesn't sell them without anymore. The others don't have the touchpad and I love that! |
| 21:55.28 | jayeola | lost an x60s in a bar, have a t60, t43, x40 and a laptop from hp. great battery life but it aint a thinkpad :-( |
| 21:55.43 | herlo | yup |
| 21:55.55 | jayeola | i think i still have an x30 that i keep for nostalgic reasons |
| 21:56.19 | jayeola | and also a macbook pro. hardly ever turn that on |
| 21:57.44 | jayeola | grrr. those chiclet look horrid. |
| 21:58.10 | jayeola | cannot beat the feel and responsiveness of an X-series keyboard. |
| 21:58.35 | jayeola | anyway, enough yammering from me. nice talking to you all. have stuff to read |
| 21:59.45 | jayeola | gosh, the bios on this thinkpad... 2005! |
| 22:04.09 | herlo | lol, come back soon :) |
| 22:11.11 | jayeola | reading your presentation |
| 22:18.17 | jayeola | read. now i think it's time to look at your gitMojo |
| 22:18.34 | herlo | lol, cool. I hope you like it |
| 22:18.36 | jayeola | oh yeah. do you guys use a ticketing system? |
| 22:18.47 | jayeola | good presentation. nice and simple |
| 22:18.50 | herlo | yes, on github |
| 22:19.03 | jayeola | clear and such. /me goes to github |
| 22:19.12 | herlo | jayeola: https://github.com/gooseproject/main/issues?state=open |
| 22:21.59 | jayeola | i have an account on github. |
| 22:23.03 | herlo | jayeola: you should join up to GoOSe then :) |
| 22:23.15 | herlo | http://join.gooseproject.org is all you have to follow |
| 22:28.31 | jayeola | done. forked a couple of days ago |
| 22:28.44 | jayeola | now i am looking for a decent ssl primer |
| 22:28.44 | herlo | did you send a pull request? |
| 22:28.51 | herlo | didn't see one |
| 22:28.52 | jayeola | not yet |
| 22:29.02 | herlo | ahh, okay. No worries, just making sure I didn't miss something |
| 22:29.18 | jayeola | uh, how does one do that? with git pull? |
| 22:30.54 | herlo | on github's page for your fork, there's a button near the top, says 'pull request' |
| 22:36.55 | jayeola | http://jayeola.zapto.org/Screenshot%20-%2006062012%20-%2011:35:35%20PM.png ?? |
| 22:37.29 | herlo | looks |
| 22:37.46 | herlo | jayeola: yes |
| 22:38.44 | jayeola | i think i've done it. lemme know if i have goofed |
| 22:39.27 | herlo | k, I'll check in a few |
| 22:40.37 | jayeola | kk. no hurry just yet. another thing to do and master on the todo list |
